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Reply #180 posted 07/28/21 5:54pm

PennyPurple

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2freaky4church1 said:

I am not, NOT wearing no fucking masks inside. CDC can kiss my butt.

Unless something has changed since lockdown, how you going to go to the library to get on the computer if they require you to wear a mask?

U.S.A.
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Reply #181 posted 07/28/21 5:57pm

PennyPurple

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CherryMoon57 said:

Do you get fully vaccinated for the flu every year?

Yes, I do, do you?

U.S.A.
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Reply #182 posted 07/28/21 6:01pm

PennyPurple

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CherryMoon57 said:

PennyPurple said:

Again, what freedom have YOU lost?

I could tell you many things but it all depends on your own definition of freedom of course. Please tell me why I haven't been allowed to see my mother in months if not for the loss of my old freedom to do so.

Is your mom in a nursing home? I don't know what the rules are where you live, but the US has opened up the nursing home here again, to visitors. The hospital had loosened their rules on visitors, but that hasn't held with the numbers being so high.

U.S.A.
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Reply #183 posted 07/28/21 6:05pm

PennyPurple

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TweetyV6 said:

PennyPurple said:

Again, what freedom have YOU lost?

The one we ALL lost.

Going as we like, when we like, how we like, with whom we like, where we like without having to provide a statement of our 'health'. Each single fucking time again.

I haven't lost the freedom to do anything. I've never had to provide a statement of my health, nor have I ever been asked for my vaccine card.

U.S.A.
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Reply #184 posted 07/28/21 6:21pm

2elijah

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PennyPurple said:



CherryMoon57 said:




PennyPurple said:



Again, what freedom have YOU lost?




I could tell you many things but it all depends on your own definition of freedom of course. Please tell me why I haven't been allowed to see my mother in months if not for the loss of my old freedom to do so.



Is your mom in a nursing home? I don't know what the rules are where you live, but the US has opened up the nursing home here again, to visitors. The hospital had loosened their rules on visitors, but that hasn't held with the numbers being so high.


Agree. I have a relative in a nursing home in NYC and have been able to see her when the restrictions were lifted for a while now. See her just about every 2 weeks. Still have to wear a mask to protect her, other patients, visitors and employees. The only time we’re restricted is when someone caught covid and they would stop visitors from visiting for about 2wks.
[Edited 7/28/21 18:24pm]
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Reply #185 posted 07/28/21 6:26pm

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:

Neo-Nazis suck and if any of them were censoring anybody right now I'd be happy to call them out.

Unless the people running social media and mass media are neo-nazis, that sure would explain a lot.

.

Which still ignores that fascism is by definition far-right authoritarianism and those you and the alternates call fascists almost always are not. That is the understood definition by all except the corporate far-right media and those who parrot their spin.

.

There is no indication at all that far-right authoritarians are behind the methods to control the spread of covid 19 and prevent most people from getting this.

.

The recent protests by anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and libertarian far-right people in Sydney against vaccines, masks and social distancing have been condemned by conservatives and liberals alike here. This does not mean that all people are pro all the measures or don't want to move to a new phase of appropriate processes once vaccination rates are high and the current Sydney outbreak is back under control.

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Reply #186 posted 07/29/21 12:25am

TweetyV6

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IanRG said:

TweetyV6 said:



Which is again? Remind me, I seem to have forgotten.... rolleyes

.

If you cannot remember, this is not my issue. But we all know you know your agenda and it is just about the only reason you post in P&R anymore.



Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups, right?

Reason to post here is to tickle the balls of wankers like you lol

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #187 posted 07/29/21 12:58am

JorisE73

jaawwnn said:

Can the people who are not getting vaccinated explain why?

All joking and shitposting aside, i'd like to know what made you come to that decision. FWIW I don't think anyone should be forced to get vaccinated.


(Light) nikkel allergy, and was advised to wait for the alternative (pills, drops whatever) that are still being worked on.

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Reply #188 posted 07/29/21 2:43am

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

IanRG said:

.

If you cannot remember, this is not my issue. But we all know you know your agenda and it is just about the only reason you post in P&R anymore.



Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups, right?

Reason to post here is to tickle the balls of wankers like you lol

.

You assume too much because no one needs to make any assumptions about your agenda, be it about climate change or managing covid 19.

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Reply #189 posted 07/29/21 2:45am

IanRG

JorisE73 said:

jaawwnn said:

Can the people who are not getting vaccinated explain why?

All joking and shitposting aside, i'd like to know what made you come to that decision. FWIW I don't think anyone should be forced to get vaccinated.


(Light) nikkel allergy, and was advised to wait for the alternative (pills, drops whatever) that are still being worked on.

.

And this is a very good reason why people who can get vaccinated need to.

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Reply #190 posted 07/29/21 3:57am

CherryMoon57

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Strive said:

jaawwnn said:

Thank you Strive. I read the same things and came to a different conclusion. A case of better safe than sorry, but that's me, i'm a pretty cautious person. Perhaps over-cautious. I'm pretty sick of lockdowns, let me tell you.

No problem. We all have free will. It's up to everybody to make their own informed decision after weighing the pros and cons.

.

My parents got vaccinated, they had no issues outside of the brain fog. I've had friends get vaccinated, they claimed nothing happened besides a sore arm. One guy did it because he wanted to work without a mask. Another guy did it because he was in a high risk category.

.

I don't hold anybody's decision against them. But you should be able to make the decision yourself and, if the power structure is pressing it in such an aggressive manner, you should be questioning why they're doing that. Because it's very rare they do things for altruistic reasons.

.

[Edited 7/28/21 11:41am]


I think this (in bold) is what we should all be seriously focusing on right now.

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Reply #191 posted 07/29/21 4:10am

CherryMoon57

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PennyPurple said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I could tell you many things but it all depends on your own definition of freedom of course. Please tell me why I haven't been allowed to see my mother in months if not for the loss of my old freedom to do so.

Is your mom in a nursing home? I don't know what the rules are where you live, but the US has opened up the nursing home here again, to visitors. The hospital had loosened their rules on visitors, but that hasn't held with the numbers being so high.


My mother is not in a nursing home. She lives in France and I live in the UK. As we were not allowed to go abroad for a long time during the lockdown, I haven't seen her since last year. And after September it will become compulsory to be fully vaccinated if one wishes to enter the French territory. I used to see my mum regularly. You asked me what freedom I have lost, that's just one (big) one of them.

Life Matters
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Reply #192 posted 07/29/21 4:35am

2elijah

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IanRG said:



JorisE73 said:




jaawwnn said:


Can the people who are not getting vaccinated explain why?

All joking and shitposting aside, i'd like to know what made you come to that decision. FWIW I don't think anyone should be forced to get vaccinated.




(Light) nikkel allergy, and was advised to wait for the alternative (pills, drops whatever) that are still being worked on.



.


And this is a very good reason why people who can get vaccinated need to.


Well it’s two choices - either get vaccinated or if not, then they’ll have to do regular testing or wear a mask indoors if/when/where required. If they don’t want to do either, then it’s their risk of getting covid19, and possibly developing the symptoms or getting covid19, and risking their family members health, who are unvaccinated as well.
[Edited 7/29/21 15:12pm]
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #193 posted 07/29/21 4:56am

JorisE73

IanRG said:

JorisE73 said:


(Light) nikkel allergy, and was advised to wait for the alternative (pills, drops whatever) that are still being worked on.

.

And this is a very good reason why people who can get vaccinated need to.


Not really.
The (potential) vaccines and vaccinated don't protect me against the spreading of it and catching it (unless it's the mRNA version, which for some reason was always seen as a hazardous and dangerous tech until COVID came) so the vaccinated can infect me as much as the unvaccinated who have COVID and honestly I feel safer around the unvaccinated who don't have anything to spread then the vaccinated who have (a tiny dose of) COVID that they spread among everyone.
These vaccines only diminish the symptomes and protect the vaccinated from severe complications.
But because not many (an insignificant amount) have died from COVID (the majority of deaths are from the complications of it to pre existing conditions or complications, just like HIV does) I'm not worried and like with most vaccines that I 'had to get' but decades later still don't have because it's too expensive to research, develop, test and produce alternatives to the syringe version for the insignificant couple of millions like me in the world, it's cheaper for us to just die. shrug
Please remember that pharmaceutical companies are still just businesses trying to make a buck of sick people. But I'm a healthy guy so no worries if I catch it it will either indicate and expose a condition in my body that I didn't know I had and maybe die or get a runny nose for a couple of days or maybe I'll get long COVID which isn't that severe either, I could use some time off of work so half a year of rest sounds nice.
But anyway like with any alternative that never comes for people like me I'm forced to either not take anything or take my chances with Homeopathy or other Pseuo science things and hope for the best.

[Edited 7/29/21 4:58am]

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Reply #194 posted 07/29/21 5:35am

TweetyV6

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IanRG said:

JorisE73 said:


(Light) nikkel allergy, and was advised to wait for the alternative (pills, drops whatever) that are still being worked on.

.

And this is a very good reason why people who can get vaccinated need to.


There is no (medical) need for all people to get vaccinated.
Only those who are at danger when infected should be vaccinated.

Vaccination should, depending on the overall strength of their immune system, prevent people from getting severely ill or even die.

Vaccination does not prevent catching the virus. It does not prevent you from inhaling aerosoles with a viral load.

Depending on the speed of your immune system, you could even become infectious.

That's why there is no need for people younger than 50 yrs to get vaccinated UNLESS they have a medical condition which thereby have a higher risk to get ill or die fom Covid-19

It's better to catch the disease and live it through.
New studies show that people who have had Covid-19 are better protected than people who only have been vaccinated.

AND before you're shouting 'political agenda' again.

I'm 51 and I have had Covid-19 in March 2020 AND I have been vaccinated twice with Pfizer in June/July 2021. Not because I'm affraid to get Covid-19 again, but solely because I want to be able to travel without a stick being shoved up my nose each and every single fucking time I want to cross a border. (I live in Germany, work in the Netherlands, have a European function which requires me to travel a lot within the EU)

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #195 posted 07/29/21 5:37am

IanRG

JorisE73 said:

IanRG said:

.

And this is a very good reason why people who can get vaccinated need to.


Not really.
The (potential) vaccines and vaccinated don't protect me against the spreading of it and catching it (unless it's the mRNA version, which for some reason was always seen as a hazardous and dangerous tech until COVID came) so the vaccinated can infect me as much as the unvaccinated who have COVID and honestly I feel safer around the unvaccinated who don't have anything to spread then the vaccinated who have (a tiny dose of) COVID that they spread among everyone.
These vaccines only diminish the symptomes and protect the vaccinated from severe complications.
But because not many (an insignificant amount) have died from COVID (the majority of deaths are from the complications of it to pre existing conditions or complications, just like HIV does) I'm not worried and like with most vaccines that I 'had to get' but decades later still don't have because it's too expensive to research, develop, test and produce alternatives to the syringe version for the insignificant couple of millions like me in the world, it's cheaper for us to just die. shrug
Please remember that pharmaceutical companies are still just businesses trying to make a buck of sick people. But I'm a healthy guy so no worries if I catch it it will either indicate and expose a condition in my body that I didn't know I had and maybe die or get a runny nose for a couple of days or maybe I'll get long COVID which isn't that severe either, I could use some time off of work so half a year of rest sounds nice.
But anyway like with any alternative that never comes for people like me I'm forced to either not take anything or take my chances with Homeopathy or other Pseuo science things and hope for the best.

[Edited 7/29/21 4:58am]

.

Yes really - vaccines protect those who cannot take them if the community generally can and does. It is not true that the vaccines only reduce the severity of the disease, it prevents most people getting it and those unlucky enough to get it from getting it as badly. The way you are protected is that there less infectious people around you.

.

It is not true that vaccines make you infectious to the unvaccinated - this is an anti-vaxxer myth.

.

Personally I am not able to be made immune to hepatitis B - a big issue as I have been to Myanmar several times (before the coup). This means over there I have to be very careful - shared pot street food is out, only bottled water and I always have my own cutlery with me. In Australia as the disease is largely not present, no such precautions. It is the same for Covid 19 - I work normally in Sydney (not at the moment because it is lockdown), so there I mask up, and treat the place like Myanmar. Where I live we have not had a single Covid case since September last year, so I do not need to so cautious. Once there are sufficent people with immunity to active strains in your area by vaccines or having caught it, you will be unlikely to catch it simply because it is not present. Even if it becomes endemic, so long as the periodic boosters keep up with the active variants, it will be the same.

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Reply #196 posted 07/29/21 6:01am

djThunderfunk

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IanRG said:

djThunderfunk said:

Neo-Nazis suck and if any of them were censoring anybody right now I'd be happy to call them out.

Unless the people running social media and mass media are neo-nazis, that sure would explain a lot.

.

Which still ignores that fascism is by definition far-right authoritarianism and those you and the alternates call fascists almost always are not. That is the understood definition by all except the corporate far-right media and those who parrot their spin.

.

There is no indication at all that far-right authoritarians are behind the methods to control the spread of covid 19 and prevent most people from getting this.

.

The recent protests by anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and libertarian far-right people in Sydney against vaccines, masks and social distancing have been condemned by conservatives and liberals alike here. This does not mean that all people are pro all the measures or don't want to move to a new phase of appropriate processes once vaccination rates are high and the current Sydney outbreak is back under control.


Yeah, yeah. And only white people can be racist by definition. Congratulations. The fascists on the left got the dictionary changed to obfuscate their own behavior once again.

This idea that fascism is defined as "far right" is new and it's bullshit. I have printed dictionaries that say otherwise. Fascism is authoritarianism by ANYBODY. I don't care what side of politics it comes from. All authoritarianism is fascism.

Mussolini outlined the 3 principles of fascist society thusly:

1. ”Everything in the state.” The government is supreme and the country is all-encompassing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.

2. ”Nothing outside the state.” The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.

3. ”Nothing against the state.” Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.

Nothing about "far-right" in there at all.


[Edited 7/29/21 6:11am]

ALL authoritarians are fascists, ALL fascists are evil.
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Reply #197 posted 07/29/21 6:06am

JorisE73

IanRG said:


It is not true that vaccines make you infectious to the unvaccinated - this is an anti-vaxxer myth.


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.

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Reply #198 posted 07/29/21 6:10am

CherryMoon57

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History has shown that authoritarianism can be far deadlier than any strain of flu and Covid together.

Life Matters
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Reply #199 posted 07/29/21 6:15am

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:

IanRG said:

.

Which still ignores that fascism is by definition far-right authoritarianism and those you and the alternates call fascists almost always are not. That is the understood definition by all except the corporate far-right media and those who parrot their spin.

.

There is no indication at all that far-right authoritarians are behind the methods to control the spread of covid 19 and prevent most people from getting this.

.

The recent protests by anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and libertarian far-right people in Sydney against vaccines, masks and social distancing have been condemned by conservatives and liberals alike here. This does not mean that all people are pro all the measures or don't want to move to a new phase of appropriate processes once vaccination rates are high and the current Sydney outbreak is back under control.


Yeah, yeah. And only white people can be racist by definition. Congratulations. The fascists on the left got the dictionary changed to obfuscate their own behavior once again.

This idea that fascism is defined as "far right" is new and it's bullshit. I have printed dictionaries that say otherwise. Fascism is authoritarianism by ANYBODY. I don't care what side of politics it comes from. All authoritarianism is fascism.

.

You need to learn your history. Fascism being far right authoritarianism is how it started with Mussolini. You are the one using a new definition. The obfucation is from the non authoritarian far right embarrassed by being associated with the authoritarian far right.

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Reply #200 posted 07/29/21 6:20am

CherryMoon57

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JorisE73 said:

IanRG said:


It is not true that vaccines make you infectious to the unvaccinated - this is an anti-vaxxer myth.


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.


I think the real danger of vaccines is that because the vaccinated people are likely to have less symptoms, they are more likely to carelessly mingle and spread the virus inadvertently. The other thing is that it seems to give people a false sense of security. In my neighbourhood, many over 70's are happily getting very close to others just because they are vaccinated. Therefore they are just as likely to catch or spread it as those - more cautious ones - who are not vaccinated. Why the fully jabbed are allowed to travel everywhere so easily without measure or even testing is beyond me. It contradicts everything that has been said to us in the past 2 years, about hand, face, space, etc.

Life Matters
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Reply #201 posted 07/29/21 6:21am

IanRG

JorisE73 said:

IanRG said:


It is not true that vaccines make you infectious to the unvaccinated - this is an anti-vaxxer myth.


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.

.

Vaccines do not make you infectious spreaders of covid 19 at all. Try googling it

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Reply #202 posted 07/29/21 6:24am

JorisE73

IanRG said:

JorisE73 said:


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.

.

Vaccines do not make you infectious spreaders of covid 19 at all. Try googling it


I did and the medical sites say the spread is contained for 80% and still unknown for the Delta variant.

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Reply #203 posted 07/29/21 6:26am

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:

IanRG said:

.

Which still ignores that fascism is by definition far-right authoritarianism and those you and the alternates call fascists almost always are not. That is the understood definition by all except the corporate far-right media and those who parrot their spin.

.

There is no indication at all that far-right authoritarians are behind the methods to control the spread of covid 19 and prevent most people from getting this.

.

The recent protests by anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and libertarian far-right people in Sydney against vaccines, masks and social distancing have been condemned by conservatives and liberals alike here. This does not mean that all people are pro all the measures or don't want to move to a new phase of appropriate processes once vaccination rates are high and the current Sydney outbreak is back under control.


Yeah, yeah. And only white people can be racist by definition. Congratulations. The fascists on the left got the dictionary changed to obfuscate their own behavior once again.

This idea that fascism is defined as "far right" is new and it's bullshit. I have printed dictionaries that say otherwise. Fascism is authoritarianism by ANYBODY. I don't care what side of politics it comes from. All authoritarianism is fascism.

Mussolini outlined the 3 principles of fascist society thusly:

1. ”Everything in the state.” The government is supreme and the country is all-encompassing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.

2. ”Nothing outside the state.” The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.

3. ”Nothing against the state.” Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.

Nothing about "far-right" in there at all.


[Edited 7/29/21 6:11am]

.

It is far right authoritarian - Nationalism and return to a hierarchical society based on the Roman empire was Mussolini's ideology. This is extemist - far right extremist.

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Reply #204 posted 07/29/21 6:29am

IanRG

JorisE73 said:

IanRG said:

.

Vaccines do not make you infectious spreaders of covid 19 at all. Try googling it


I did and the medical sites say the spread is contained for 80% and still unknown for the Delta variant.

.

That does not mean the vaccine makes you contagious, that questioning whether the vaccine contains the spread - google "does a vaccine make you contagious".

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Reply #205 posted 07/29/21 6:32am

TweetyV6

avatar

JorisE73 said:

IanRG said:


It is not true that vaccines make you infectious to the unvaccinated - this is an anti-vaxxer myth.


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.



Joris, dan heb je toch iets verkeerd begrepen.

You can't become infecious from the vaccination.
The whole process of building the spike protein by your own cells and then triggering your imune system to build anti-bodies mainly takes place within your bloodstream.

To be infectious, you need a certain viral load in your throat.

What the RIVM said was that vaccinated people can become infectious. Which is true.
When a vaccinated person inhales virus loaded aerosoles and the imune system of the vaccinated person is slow in making anti-bodies, the viral load in the throat can grow beyond the threshold where one becomes infecious.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #206 posted 07/29/21 7:11am

JorisE73

TweetyV6 said:

JorisE73 said:


Really?! this info came from scientists and the Dutch RIVM regarding the Delta virus. I really think they (you know the people who are testing and working 24/7 on COVID) know it better than you.



Joris, dan heb je toch iets verkeerd begrepen.

You can't become infecious from the vaccination.
The whole process of building the spike protein by your own cells and then triggering your imune system to build anti-bodies mainly takes place within your bloodstream.

To be infectious, you need a certain viral load in your throat.

What the RIVM said was that vaccinated people can become infectious. Which is true.
When a vaccinated person inhales virus loaded aerosoles and the imune system of the vaccinated person is slow in making anti-bodies, the viral load in the throat can grow beyond the threshold where one becomes infecious.


Ah ok, clear.
I'll wait patiently here then for the alternatives to the syringe version that will probably never come.

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Reply #207 posted 07/29/21 7:11am

JorisE73

IanRG said:

JorisE73 said:


I did and the medical sites say the spread is contained for 80% and still unknown for the Delta variant.

.

That does not mean the vaccine makes you contagious, that questioning whether the vaccine contains the spread - google "does a vaccine make you contagious".


Clear, thanks!

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Reply #208 posted 07/29/21 7:51am

djThunderfunk

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The bottom line, I don't care which political direction authoritariansim is directed from, it' the same damn thing. All authoritarians are fascists.

ALL authoritarians are fascists, ALL fascists are evil.
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Reply #209 posted 07/29/21 9:24am

CherryMoon57

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The thing the 'invicible' government orders followers are forgetting is that vaccines Do NOT prevent you from catching it, passing it on, or even dying from it. 43% of people who recently died of Covid had had both jabs and this figure will rise (https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated).

So I am not sure why they are feeling some form of empowerment over those who haven't. It is their choice to get vaccinated, but there isn't any need to flaunt their vaccine certificate like some badge of honour as I have seen so many do.

Our society is now rapidly becoming infected with something worse than a virus; it is called the 'us vs them' syndrome: the vaccinated setting themselves against the non-vaccinated. Some are even mirroring governments like France in their thinking and arrogantly declaring that the non-vaccinated should absolutely not be allowed to do the same things as the vaccinated part of the population. Sadly, it didn't take very long to come to this, which says something about our human nature.

Another stupidity spreading just as fast is the assumption that the non-vaccinated are 'anti-vax'. This could not be more wrong: I've probably had more vaccines than anyone else put together on this board since I used to be in the Navy. Let's be clear: I am not against the idea of vaccination. What I am against however is what is going on right now.The fact that the vaccination status has become a tool to divide and control the population even further. The simple fact that it is already not an option in many places is setting off alarm bells.

As someone here has already said, I find these aggressive tactics highly suspicious and that is the only reason why I am 'resisting' and not getting vaccinated. After all, one of my grand-father was actively involved in the French resistance, perhaps I take after him... Oh and my grandmother never (ever) got vaccinated. She is still alive today and has rarely got sick in her whole life. Perhaps once or twice if that.

Last thing: people never trusted Boris before (I used to, but not anymore), why are they suddenly trusting him now?

Life Matters
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Forums > Politics & Religion > Big Covid spike. Come on asshats get vaccinated!