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Reply #30 posted 07/25/21 9:56am

SantanaMaitrey
a

EmmaMcG said:

PennyPurple said:

Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalizations and cases again jumped significantly this week as the vaccination rate in rural counties where some of the worst outbreaks are occurring remains well below the state and national averages.


About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and nearly a tripling since June 14 when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.



.....





"We are seeing younger people in their 20s and 30s with not much risk factors -- not obese, not diabetic — coming in very sick," Abbo said. "Some of them requiring potential lung transplants."



If people refuse a vaccine they should be refused medical treatment if they catch the virus (unless they've been advised by a doctor not to be vaccinated on medical grounds). That would free up a lot of space in hospitals for people who deserve treatment.

Ever heard of the Hippocratic Oath?
[Edited 7/25/21 10:00am]
If you take any of this seriously, you're a bigger tool than I am.
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Reply #31 posted 07/25/21 11:35am

Strive

PennyPurple said:

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) - Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalizations and cases again jumped significantly this week as the vaccination rate in rural counties where some of the worst outbreaks are occurring remains well below the state and national averages.

About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and nearly a tripling since June 14 when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.

Now we're cooking with fire.

.

So I don't know if you know this but Florida has 67 counties. We're a giant state.

.

And here's the offical report direct from the Florida Department Of Health. http://ww11.doh.state.fl....latest.pdf

.

So you didn't post it but there's 73,199 total new cases reported. Of those 73,199 cases, 5,300 required hospitilzation (and I'm saying that for convenience, we don't actually know that if that's new hospitilzations or how many of those 1,845 were dismissed or if "hospization" was just being held overnight for observation, let's just go with the assumption that they are all brand new hospitizations)
.
Total number of deaths this week...75
.
So let's do the math instead of scare tactics.

.

Out of 21,477,737 citizens, 73.199 caught covid this week (0.34%), 5,300 "required hospitization" (7.24% of the 0.34%), 5,035 of those were unvaccinated (95%) , and out of those 75 people died (and there's no numbers for whether the dead were vaccinated or not so let's assume that every single death was unvaccinated)

.

Making the kill percentage of Covid among the unvaccinated that required hospitization 1.49%

.

You people are being hysterical over 1.49% chance (per week) of dying for complications of Covid IF you are hospitalized. 1.49% that's hard, undeniable, numbers. When you compare the deaths to the people that tested positive for covid, it drops to 0.10% chance of dying from covid if you test positive (per week). Kill your business, stay in your house, get the vaccine...for something that has a 99.9% chance of survivability.

.

Even me, a person who should buy their burial plot today and is as good as dead, has a 92.76% of beating with covid without ever stepping one foot in a hosptial. And if I'm one of the unlucky 7.24% that require a hosptial stay, I have a 98.51% chance of walking out.

.

So who's the one not follow facts again?

,

(edit: had to fix my percentages, it should be correct now)

[Edited 7/25/21 12:32pm]

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Reply #32 posted 07/25/21 2:01pm

onlyforaminute

avatar

Strive said:



PennyPurple said:


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) - Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalizations and cases again jumped significantly this week as the vaccination rate in rural counties where some of the worst outbreaks are occurring remains well below the state and national averages.


About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and nearly a tripling since June 14 when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.




Now we're cooking with fire.


.


So I don't know if you know this but Florida has 67 counties. We're a giant state.


.


And here's the offical report direct from the Florida Department Of Health. http://ww11.doh.state.fl....latest.pdf


.


So you didn't post it but there's 73,199 total new cases reported. Of those 73,199 cases, 5,300 required hospitilzation (and I'm saying that for convenience, we don't actually know that if that's new hospitilzations or how many of those 1,845 were dismissed or if "hospization" was just being held overnight for observation, let's just go with the assumption that they are all brand new hospitizations)
.
Total number of deaths this week...75
.
So let's do the math instead of scare tactics.


.


Out of 21,477,737 citizens, 73.199 caught covid this week (0.34%), 5,300 "required hospitization" (7.24% of the 0.34%), 5,035 of those were unvaccinated (95%) , and out of those 75 people died (and there's no numbers for whether the dead were vaccinated or not so let's assume that every single death was unvaccinated)


.


Making the kill percentage of Covid among the unvaccinated that required hospitization 1.49%


.


You people are being hysterical over 1.49% chance (per week) of dying for complications of Covid IF you are hospitalized. 1.49% that's hard, undeniable, numbers. When you compare the deaths to the people that tested positive for covid, it drops to 0.10% chance of dying from covid if you test positive (per week). Kill your business, stay in your house, get the vaccine...for something that has a 99.9% chance of survivability.


.


Even me, a person who should buy their burial plot today and is as good as dead, has a 92.76% of beating with covid without ever stepping one foot in a hosptial. And if I'm one of the unlucky 7.24% that require a hosptial stay, I have a 98.51% chance of walking out.


.


So who's the one not follow facts again?


,


(edit: had to fix my percentages, it should be correct now)

[Edited 7/25/21 12:32pm]


Even I know it's not about deaths but hospital beds. 5,000 beds are being used to deal with one emergency situation in the midst of 1,000 other emergencies that require hospital beds. Focus.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #33 posted 07/25/21 2:10pm

Strive

onlyforaminute said:

Even I know it's not about deaths but hospital beds. 5,000 beds are being used to deal with one emergency situation in the midst of 1,000 other emergencies that require hospital beds. Focus.

I don't know how accurate this is but...

Florida, according to this link, has 218 hospitals and 56.610 beds.

https://www.ahd.com/state_statistics.html#:~:text=Hospital%20Statistics%20by%20State%20%20%20%20State,%20%2071,899%20%2033%20more%20rows%20

https://www.ahd.com/states/hospital_FL.html


So 9.6% of florida's total hospital bed capacity is being taken by covid cases. And if you aren't on death's door, you shouldn't be placed in the ICU if you have covid.

.

I am focused on numbers. Not fear-mongering. Even the media only made the claim "hospitals are running out of space in parts of the state". Running out in parts of the state. Not overflowed. Not patients are sleeping in the halls. Not field hospitals have had to been built in the parking lot. And they didn't even say which ones running near max capacity and what percentage they are currently at.

.

[Edited 7/25/21 14:18pm]

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Reply #34 posted 07/25/21 2:16pm

EmmaMcG

avatar

SantanaMaitreya said:

EmmaMcG said:



If people refuse a vaccine they should be refused medical treatment if they catch the virus (unless they've been advised by a doctor not to be vaccinated on medical grounds). That would free up a lot of space in hospitals for people who deserve treatment.

Ever heard of the Hippocratic Oath?
[Edited 7/25/21 10:00am]


Yes. I'm not suggesting that it's something that will actually happen, you know?
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Reply #35 posted 07/25/21 2:32pm

onlyforaminute

avatar

Strive said:



onlyforaminute said:


Even I know it's not about deaths but hospital beds. 5,000 beds are being used to deal with one emergency situation in the midst of 1,000 other emergencies that require hospital beds. Focus.


I don't know how accurate this is but...



Florida, according to this link, has 218 hospitals and 56.610 beds.

https://www.ahd.com/state_statistics.html#:~:text=Hospital%20Statistics%20by%20State%20%20%20%20State,%20%2071,899%20%2033%20more%20rows%20


https://www.ahd.com/states/hospital_FL.html



So 9.6% of florida's total hospital bed capacity is being taken by covid cases. And if you aren't on death's door, you shouldn't be placed in the ICU if you have covid.


.


I am focused on numbers. Not fear-mongering. Even the media only made the claim "hospitals are running out of space in parts of the state". Running out in parts of the state. Not overflowed. Not patients are sleeping in the halls. Not field hospitals have had to been built in the parking lot. And they didn't even say which ones running near max capacity and what percentage they are currently at.


.

[Edited 7/25/21 14:18pm]


Seems there's a lot of numbers you don't know so you are projecting using one illness. And it seems you wouldn't believe a word unless things reach a black plague like event which would collapse the infrastructure in place. The goal isn't to reach the point of people dying on gurnies in hospital hallways. The goal is to keep it well below the bar of collapse. You want to act after the levee has crumbled into rubble. That's not good government.

.....
[Edited 7/25/21 14:34pm]
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #36 posted 07/25/21 2:47pm

Strive

Let's document the progression of this thread.

.

Part 1: Strive, you are going to die if you don't get the vaccine.

Part 2: Strive, Covid doesn't care what you are. Fact: It's a killer.

Part 3: Strive, you are denying the facts of this situation.

Part 4: Strive, you are as good as dead because you refuse to get the vaccine.

Part 5: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me. But it's not about deaths, it's about hospital beds.

Part 6: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me again. But it's not about whether hospitals are full, it's about preventing them from getting full.

.

So, my response is, if the fear mongering was right, Florida should be in a state of collapse. It's been a full month since all precautions were removed. Churches are back. Sports events are back. Nobody's following any type of CDC preventative suggestion. If the media was correct, we should be knee deep in the shit. But we're not.

.

Sorry, the data is what it is. All the scary adjectives and selective reporting doesn't change the facts of this situation.

.

[Edited 7/25/21 14:59pm]

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Reply #37 posted 07/25/21 3:09pm

onlyforaminute

avatar

Strive said:

Let's document the progression of this thread.


.


Part 1: Strive, you are going to die if you don't get the vaccine.


Part 2: Strive, Covid doesn't care what you are. Fact: It's a killer.


Part 3: Strive, you are denying the facts of this situation.


Part 4: Strive, you are as good as dead because you refuse to get the vaccine.


Part 5: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me. But it's not about deaths, it's about hospital beds.


Part 6: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me again. But it's not about whether hospitals are full, it's about preventing them from getting full.


.


So, my response is, if the fear mongering was right, Florida should be in a state of collapse. It's been a full month since all precautions were removed. Churches are back. Sports events are back. Nobody's following any type of CDC preventative suggestion. If the media was correct, we should be knee deep in the shit. But we're not.


.


Sorry, the data is what it is. All the scary adjectives and selective reporting doesn't change the facts of this situation.


.

[Edited 7/25/21 14:59pm]


You're kind of extreme aren't you? How does "you could die " instantly translate to "you are going to die"? By the way Cali has opened up over the past month too. Allowing businesses to montor themselves. Cases are going up but the rate of hospitalizations are going down.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #38 posted 07/25/21 3:35pm

IanRG

Strive said:

PennyPurple said:

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) - Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalizations and cases again jumped significantly this week as the vaccination rate in rural counties where some of the worst outbreaks are occurring remains well below the state and national averages.

About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and nearly a tripling since June 14 when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.

Now we're cooking with fire.

.

So I don't know if you know this but Florida has 67 counties. We're a giant state.

.

And here's the offical report direct from the Florida Department Of Health. http://ww11.doh.state.fl....latest.pdf

.

So you didn't post it but there's 73,199 total new cases reported. Of those 73,199 cases, 5,300 required hospitilzation (and I'm saying that for convenience, we don't actually know that if that's new hospitilzations or how many of those 1,845 were dismissed or if "hospization" was just being held overnight for observation, let's just go with the assumption that they are all brand new hospitizations)
.
Total number of deaths this week...75
.
So let's do the math instead of scare tactics.

.

Out of 21,477,737 citizens, 73.199 caught covid this week (0.34%), 5,300 "required hospitization" (7.24% of the 0.34%), 5,035 of those were unvaccinated (95%) , and out of those 75 people died (and there's no numbers for whether the dead were vaccinated or not so let's assume that every single death was unvaccinated)

.

Making the kill percentage of Covid among the unvaccinated that required hospitization 1.49%

.

You people are being hysterical over 1.49% chance (per week) of dying for complications of Covid IF you are hospitalized. 1.49% that's hard, undeniable, numbers. When you compare the deaths to the people that tested positive for covid, it drops to 0.10% chance of dying from covid if you test positive (per week). Kill your business, stay in your house, get the vaccine...for something that has a 99.9% chance of survivability.

.

Even me, a person who should buy their burial plot today and is as good as dead, has a 92.76% of beating with covid without ever stepping one foot in a hosptial. And if I'm one of the unlucky 7.24% that require a hosptial stay, I have a 98.51% chance of walking out.

.

So who's the one not follow facts again?

,

(edit: had to fix my percentages, it should be correct now)

[Edited 7/25/21 12:32pm]

.

Incorrect, your percentages are wrong. They assume that everyone who died only caught Covid this week. It takes up to 14 days from exposure to showing symptoms and then it takes a while before you die. The deaths that week are from people who caught before or only as the spike was emerging.

.

You need to look at this over the lifecycle of the disease, not a week snapshop in spike. The easiest available data is for the total reported Covid results so far: Florida has had 2,525,342 cases causing 38,670 deaths. This means that 1.53% of people that have tested positive have died, not 0.10% - By distorting the facts, you have underestimated this by more than a factor of 10.

.

Back in the first week of March 2021 the stats were 1.945 million cases and 82,237 hospitalisations. This is a hospitalisation rate of 4.23% - It looks like this is getting worse if your 7.24% was valid.

.

By the first week of March 32,266 had died - as a percentage of hospitalisations, this is 39.2%. If you take off the people who died who were already in long term care, this is 26.21% or 26,210 deaths per 100,000 hospitalisations. If you assume half died at home, this means 13,000 hositalisation deaths per 100,000 in hospital with covid after adjusting for people already in LTC. If this is compared to the age adjusted hospital mortality in US hospitals for respiratory diseases, this rate was only 83.4 people die per 100,000 hospitalised with a respiratory disease in 2017.

[Edited 7/25/21 15:45pm]

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Reply #39 posted 07/25/21 4:06pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Where I'm from the people who do not have a severe case of covid, get sent home to monitor themselves.

Only the very, very ill with Covid gets admitted to the hospital.

I imagine that it's probably that way all around the US because hospitals don't have enough beds to admit the 1000's with covid.

U.S.A.
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Reply #40 posted 07/25/21 4:21pm

IanRG

PennyPurple said:

Where I'm from the people who do not have a severe case of covid, get sent home to monitor themselves.

Only the very, very ill with Covid gets admitted to the hospital.

I imagine that it's probably that way all around the US because hospitals don't have enough beds to admit the 1000's with covid.

.

This is why if you do need to be hospitalised for covid it is MUCH MORE likely that you will die hospital than Stives' imagined 1.49% chance - especially as he is an anti-vaxxer and an anti-ventilator.

[Edited 7/25/21 16:21pm]

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Reply #41 posted 07/25/21 5:18pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

What I want to know is, how many here that have had the covid shots refuse all contact with friends and family that have not?

ALL authoritarians are fascists, ALL fascists are evil.
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Reply #42 posted 07/25/21 5:46pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Strive said:

Imagine having such slave logic baked inside yourself that you think freedom is something that can be taken and given by the government.

Imagine thinking the solution to a "pandemic" that kills less than 1% of those infected is an experimental vaccine that doesn't actually prevent infection.

Nah, dude, I'll just keep living normally in Florida. Feel free to re-inject yourself with science juice every 4 months and wear 15 masks or whatever other nonsense the gov's telling you to do today.


I'm mostly with you on some of your ideas about freedom, etc. But just to be technical, nothing else, the death rate is just under 2%. I know, I know, minimal in comparison to the number of cases that survived. But let's at least get the number right in the argument, s'all I'm sayin'.

I checked, just to see the latest: The CDC site says to this point there have been 34,380.019 cases. That has resulted in 608,403 deaths. Terrible number, no doubt. That's a damn city, or five cities, depending. But, if you divide the cases by the deaths, it's 0.01172%. That is in line with your 1%. At the beginning of the year, the number was closer to 1.7%, maybe 1.8% sometimes. I wasn't checking it all the time, so it could've been at 2%, but at this point, the numbers show that just over 1% have died from it.

Granted, medical technology was lacking in 1918, but the death rate back then was huge. People were dead in the streets, parades wiped out whole neighborhoods and communities. People were found dead in their beds with no one to be there or watch over them. Terrible time for everyone.

I'm really iffy on the vaccine. I'm not anti-vax in general. But I've never had a flu shot in my adult life (or even had a doctor's appointment other than my separation from the Navy in March 1989). I don't wish to tell anyone what to do with their bodies. Whether it's abortion, plastic surgery, Botox or removing a damn rib - ain't my business.

I heard Joy Behar claim on The View that vaccines should be mandated. Well, that's not freedom. There can't be "yeah, but"'s in this. Eventually, I'll figure out what's best for me. This is a personal choice. Folks don't have to agree with someone's choice, but it's still their choice.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #43 posted 07/25/21 6:17pm

PennyPurple

avatar

IanRG said:

PennyPurple said:

Where I'm from the people who do not have a severe case of covid, get sent home to monitor themselves.

Only the very, very ill with Covid gets admitted to the hospital.

I imagine that it's probably that way all around the US because hospitals don't have enough beds to admit the 1000's with covid.

.

This is why if you do need to be hospitalised for covid it is MUCH MORE likely that you will die hospital than Stives' imagined 1.49% chance - especially as he is an anti-vaxxer and an anti-ventilator.

[Edited 7/25/21 16:21pm]

Exactly

U.S.A.
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Reply #44 posted 07/25/21 6:18pm

IanRG

TrivialPursuit said:

Strive said:

Imagine having such slave logic baked inside yourself that you think freedom is something that can be taken and given by the government.

Imagine thinking the solution to a "pandemic" that kills less than 1% of those infected is an experimental vaccine that doesn't actually prevent infection.

Nah, dude, I'll just keep living normally in Florida. Feel free to re-inject yourself with science juice every 4 months and wear 15 masks or whatever other nonsense the gov's telling you to do today.


I checked, just to see the latest: The CDC site says to this point there have been 34,380.019 cases. That has resulted in 608,403 deaths. Terrible number, no doubt. That's a damn city, or five cities, depending. But, if you divide the cases by the deaths, it's 0.01172%. That is in line with your 1%. At the beginning of the year, the number was closer to 1.7%, maybe 1.8% sometimes.


.

608,403 / 34,380,019 does NOT equal 0.01172%. This percentage would mean that there has only been 4029 deaths.

.

0.01172% is not in line with 1%

.

608,403 / 34,380,019 = 1.770%. In January 2021 the average was 1.676%. This means that the months since January have shown and increase in the rate of deaths per case.

.

New cases Feb to now are 8,339,725. New deaths in this time 172,489 = 2.068% deaths per infection. It is getting worse, not better.

.

But we know from the science that people who are vaccinated even with just one jab are signicificantly less likely to get life threatening symptoms, so is it the anti-vaxxers who are bearing the brunt of the new deaths due to the new variants - so much so they are pushing the average up by more than the new treatments and vaccines are pushing it down.

[Edited 7/25/21 18:24pm]

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Reply #45 posted 07/25/21 6:20pm

PennyPurple

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:


I'm mostly with you on some of your ideas about freedom, etc. But just to be technical, nothing else, the death rate is just under 2%. I know, I know, minimal in comparison to the number of cases that survived. But let's at least get the number right in the argument, s'all I'm sayin'.

I checked, just to see the latest: The CDC site says to this point there have been 34,380.019 cases. That has resulted in 608,403 deaths. Terrible number, no doubt. That's a damn city, or five cities, depending. But, if you divide the cases by the deaths, it's 0.01172%. That is in line with your 1%. At the beginning of the year, the number was closer to 1.7%, maybe 1.8% sometimes. I wasn't checking it all the time, so it could've been at 2%, but at this point, the numbers show that just over 1% have died from it.

Granted, medical technology was lacking in 1918, but the death rate back then was huge. People were dead in the streets, parades wiped out whole neighborhoods and communities. People were found dead in their beds with no one to be there or watch over them. Terrible time for everyone.

I'm really iffy on the vaccine. I'm not anti-vax in general. But I've never had a flu shot in my adult life (or even had a doctor's appointment other than my separation from the Navy in March 1989). I don't wish to tell anyone what to do with their bodies. Whether it's abortion, plastic surgery, Botox or removing a damn rib - ain't my business.

I heard Joy Behar claim on The View that vaccines should be mandated. Well, that's not freedom. There can't be "yeah, but"'s in this. Eventually, I'll figure out what's best for me. This is a personal choice. Folks don't have to agree with someone's choice, but it's still their choice.


When you joined the Navy, did they not give you any shots, to catch up on the other vaccines?

U.S.A.
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Reply #46 posted 07/25/21 6:30pm

PennyPurple

avatar

IanRG said:

.

608,403 / 34,380,019 does NOT equal 0.01172%. This percentage would mean that there has only been 4029 deaths.

.

0.01172% is not in line with 1%

.

608,403 / 34,380,019 = 1.770%. In January 2021 the average was 1.676%. This means that the months since January have shown and increase in the rate of deaths per case.

.

New cases Feb to now are 8,339,725. New deaths in this time 172,489 = 2.068% deaths per infection. It is getting worse, not better.

.

But we know from the science that people who are vaccinated even with just one jab are signicificantly less likely to get life threatening symptoms, so is it the anti-vaxxers who are bearing the brunt of the new deaths due to the new variants - so much so they are pushing the average up by more than the new treatments and vaccines are pushing it down.

[Edited 7/25/21 18:24pm]

Anti-vaxxers are the ones who are to blame for this surge.

The Delta variant spreads more easily between the people too.

U.S.A.
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Reply #47 posted 07/25/21 10:00pm

onlyforaminute

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

What I want to know is, how many here that have had the covid shots refuse all contact with friends and family that have not?


What an odd question. Maybe I missed something in the thread this pertains to. I still go to work. Hang out with family and friends. Go to parties. Go to stores, movies,recreational places, travel.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #48 posted 07/26/21 5:50am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

onlyforaminute said:

djThunderfunk said:

What I want to know is, how many here that have had the covid shots refuse all contact with friends and family that have not?

What an odd question. Maybe I missed something in the thread this pertains to. I still go to work. Hang out with family and friends. Go to parties. Go to stores, movies,recreational places, travel.

That's because..... Devil worshippers the lot of you!!!

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #49 posted 07/26/21 6:23am

djThunderfunk

avatar

onlyforaminute said:

djThunderfunk said:

What I want to know is, how many here that have had the covid shots refuse all contact with friends and family that have not?

What an odd question. Maybe I missed something in the thread this pertains to. I still go to work. Hang out with family and friends. Go to parties. Go to stores, movies,recreational places, travel.


Considering the talking heads in media and government that have recommended this action, it's not so odd.

Those of you that have had your shots: are your friends or relatives who have not had them welcome in your home?

ALL authoritarians are fascists, ALL fascists are evil.
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Reply #50 posted 07/26/21 7:03am

jaawwnn

TrivialPursuit said:

Strive said:

I'm mostly with you on some of your ideas about freedom, etc. But just to be technical, nothing else, the death rate is just under 2%. I know, I know, minimal in comparison to the number of cases that survived. But let's at least get the number right in the argument, s'all I'm sayin'.

I checked, just to see the latest: The CDC site says to this point there have been 34,380.019 cases. That has resulted in 608,403 deaths. Terrible number, no doubt. That's a damn city, or five cities, depending. But, if you divide the cases by the deaths, it's 0.01172%. That is in line with your 1%. At the beginning of the year, the number was closer to 1.7%, maybe 1.8% sometimes. I wasn't checking it all the time, so it could've been at 2%, but at this point, the numbers show that just over 1% have died from it.

Granted, medical technology was lacking in 1918, but the death rate back then was huge. People were dead in the streets, parades wiped out whole neighborhoods and communities. People were found dead in their beds with no one to be there or watch over them. Terrible time for everyone.

I'm really iffy on the vaccine. I'm not anti-vax in general. But I've never had a flu shot in my adult life (or even had a doctor's appointment other than my separation from the Navy in March 1989). I don't wish to tell anyone what to do with their bodies. Whether it's abortion, plastic surgery, Botox or removing a damn rib - ain't my business.

I heard Joy Behar claim on The View that vaccines should be mandated. Well, that's not freedom. There can't be "yeah, but"'s in this. Eventually, I'll figure out what's best for me. This is a personal choice. Folks don't have to agree with someone's choice, but it's still their choice.


What are your fears of the vaccines?

In a country as distrustful of its own government as the USA I do wonder would the uptake be higher if the vaccines were sold directly by the drug companies for 50 dollars?


[Edited 7/26/21 8:48am]

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Reply #51 posted 07/26/21 11:05am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

PennyPurple said:

When you joined the Navy, did they not give you any shots, to catch up on the other vaccines?


Of course, there was a round of shots in bootcamp. I remember at least 3 occasions with shots. Sometimes just one, sometimes a couple. We probably got no more than 5 or 6 total.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #52 posted 07/26/21 3:18pm

onlyforaminute

avatar

djThunderfunk said:



onlyforaminute said:


djThunderfunk said:

What I want to know is, how many here that have had the covid shots refuse all contact with friends and family that have not?



What an odd question. Maybe I missed something in the thread this pertains to. I still go to work. Hang out with family and friends. Go to parties. Go to stores, movies,recreational places, travel.


Considering the talking heads in media and government that have recommended this action, it's not so odd.

Those of you that have had your shots: are your friends or relatives who have not had them welcome in your home?


I never got the memo.


It's a worldwide issue not something taking place in a unknown small corner of this planet. If the vaccine isn't up to snuff we're all in the $#!% can together. I'd rather play the odds with the vaccine, then the unpredictablity of an virus. There's too much riding on the vaccine working and working well.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #53 posted 07/26/21 4:30pm

PennyPurple

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

PennyPurple said:

When you joined the Navy, did they not give you any shots, to catch up on the other vaccines?


Of course, there was a round of shots in bootcamp. I remember at least 3 occasions with shots. Sometimes just one, sometimes a couple. We probably got no more than 5 or 6 total.

And you're afraid of taking 1 more?

U.S.A.
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Reply #54 posted 07/26/21 6:15pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

PennyPurple said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Of course, there was a round of shots in bootcamp. I remember at least 3 occasions with shots. Sometimes just one, sometimes a couple. We probably got no more than 5 or 6 total.

And you're afraid of taking 1 more?


I was 19. I'm 53 now. A lot of changed in that time. It's an unreasonable comparison. I also didn't have a choice back then.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #55 posted 07/26/21 6:29pm

Strive

PennyPurple said:

Where I'm from the people who do not have a severe case of covid, get sent home to monitor themselves.

Only the very, very ill with Covid gets admitted to the hospital.

I imagine that it's probably that way all around the US because hospitals don't have enough beds to admit the 1000's with covid.

There was just an expose in the UK where it was found that over half of "covid" hospitalizations were people that came to the hospital for some sort of other ailment and tested positive after they were admitted.

.

Well I'm sure that sort of chicanery isn't happening in the US. It isn't like there is a financial gain to be made from Uncle Sam.

.

non paywall link https://archive.is/mbWJH
_
_____

"Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, said: "This data is incredibly important, and it should be published on an ongoing basis.

"When people hear about hospitalisations with Covid, they will assume that Covid is the likely cause, but this data shows something quite different – this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it."

Prof Heneghan urged the Government to publish clearer data, including whether or not the virus was the primary cause of hospital admission.

"This needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency," he said, adding that the published data could lead the public "towards false conclusions", exaggerating the true levels of pressures on hospitals."

______
Surely Prof Carl Heneghan is just another an "anti-vaxxer" and "anti-science" nut. Only right-wing terrorists ask questions, look at data and come to their own conclusions. lol
.

[Edited 7/26/21 18:50pm]

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Reply #56 posted 07/26/21 8:33pm

IanRG

Strive said:

PennyPurple said:

Where I'm from the people who do not have a severe case of covid, get sent home to monitor themselves.

Only the very, very ill with Covid gets admitted to the hospital.

I imagine that it's probably that way all around the US because hospitals don't have enough beds to admit the 1000's with covid.

There was just an expose in the UK where it was found that over half of "covid" hospitalizations were people that came to the hospital for some sort of other ailment and tested positive after they were admitted.

.

Well I'm sure that sort of chicanery isn't happening in the US. It isn't like there is a financial gain to be made from Uncle Sam.

.

non paywall link https://archive.is/mbWJH
_
_____

"Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, said: "This data is incredibly important, and it should be published on an ongoing basis.

"When people hear about hospitalisations with Covid, they will assume that Covid is the likely cause, but this data shows something quite different – this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it."

Prof Heneghan urged the Government to publish clearer data, including whether or not the virus was the primary cause of hospital admission.

"This needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency," he said, adding that the published data could lead the public "towards false conclusions", exaggerating the true levels of pressures on hospitals."

______
Surely Prof Carl Heneghan is just another an "anti-vaxxer" and "anti-science" nut. Only right-wing terrorists ask questions, look at data and come to their own conclusions. lol
.

[Edited 7/26/21 18:50pm]

.

Whilst there is no way people would consider this person as crazy as an anti-vaxxer / anti-ventilator, there is no reason to not consider him in line with his political agenda. He is an anti-masker. He is an anti-lockdowner seeking to limit those who are protected from the pandemic - this is the seriously deadly response that saw Sweden fail so very badly. On the weight of evidence and risk, he and the 27 other signatories to his campaign to not protect most of the population was correctly rejected so the death rate in the UK is only abysmal, not catastrophic.

.

There is no error in testing whether people who must be hospitalised have covid after they are admitted - whether someone is hospitalised is based on their conditions and symptoms, not whether the causes have been properly identified. His political agenda is to seek to find reasons to not lock down.

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Reply #57 posted 07/27/21 1:36am

TweetyV6

avatar

Strive said:

Let's document the progression of this thread.

.

Part 1: Strive, you are going to die if you don't get the vaccine.

Part 2: Strive, Covid doesn't care what you are. Fact: It's a killer.

Part 3: Strive, you are denying the facts of this situation.

Part 4: Strive, you are as good as dead because you refuse to get the vaccine.

Part 5: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me. But it's not about deaths, it's about hospital beds.

Part 6: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me again. But it's not about whether hospitals are full, it's about preventing them from getting full.

.

So, my response is, if the fear mongering was right, Florida should be in a state of collapse. It's been a full month since all precautions were removed. Churches are back. Sports events are back. Nobody's following any type of CDC preventative suggestion. If the media was correct, we should be knee deep in the shit. But we're not.

.

Sorry, the data is what it is. All the scary adjectives and selective reporting doesn't change the facts of this situation.

.

[Edited 7/25/21 14:59pm]

Forget it.

Most people here are deaf and blind to facts.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #58 posted 07/27/21 1:59am

TweetyV6

avatar

Strive said:

PennyPurple said:

Where I'm from the people who do not have a severe case of covid, get sent home to monitor themselves.

Only the very, very ill with Covid gets admitted to the hospital.

I imagine that it's probably that way all around the US because hospitals don't have enough beds to admit the 1000's with covid.

There was just an expose in the UK where it was found that over half of "covid" hospitalizations were people that came to the hospital for some sort of other ailment and tested positive after they were admitted.

.

Well I'm sure that sort of chicanery isn't happening in the US. It isn't like there is a financial gain to be made from Uncle Sam.

.

[Edited 7/26/21 18:50pm]

Same everywhere.

In Germany hospitals deliberately took ICU beds out of the books to keep their ICU occupancy above 85%
Because that was the threshold for getting governmetal funding.

Last week my mother in law (81) fell of her scooter resulting in a broken wrist and severe trauma to her head.
After being admitted to the hospital, she suddenly tested positive for SARS-CoV-2
So she's now accounted for as a 'Covid-19' patient.
Which, here in the Netherlands, means the hospital gets extra money.

End March 2020 the health experts of the Dutch Ministry of Economics and Enironment made an prognosis/analysis about the costs of the first lockdown in march 2020.

The objective of the 1st lockdown was to save 100,000 QALY's (Quality Adjusted Life Years)
They calcualted that the effects of the lockdown (e.g. suspended healthcare for non-Covid related illnesses) cost the Dutch society 620,000 QALY's

So the net loss of life years was 520,000

This report has been swept under the rug and just recently has surfaced due to a FOI request by the former president of the Dutch Bureau for Statistics who's gut feeling told him that there was something fishy going on.

Now the story goes that the medical board, which is advising the Dutch government and mainly consists of people who profit from this whole situation, apparently, swept this report under the rug.


It's all about power & money.
It has NOTHING to do with public health.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #59 posted 07/27/21 2:04am

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

Strive said:

Let's document the progression of this thread.

.

Part 1: Strive, you are going to die if you don't get the vaccine.

Part 2: Strive, Covid doesn't care what you are. Fact: It's a killer.

Part 3: Strive, you are denying the facts of this situation.

Part 4: Strive, you are as good as dead because you refuse to get the vaccine.

Part 5: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me. But it's not about deaths, it's about hospital beds.

Part 6: Ok, Strive, the numbers don't agree with me again. But it's not about whether hospitals are full, it's about preventing them from getting full.

.

So, my response is, if the fear mongering was right, Florida should be in a state of collapse. It's been a full month since all precautions were removed. Churches are back. Sports events are back. Nobody's following any type of CDC preventative suggestion. If the media was correct, we should be knee deep in the shit. But we're not.

.

Sorry, the data is what it is. All the scary adjectives and selective reporting doesn't change the facts of this situation.

.

[Edited 7/25/21 14:59pm]

Forget it.

Most people here are deaf and blind to facts.

.

That's funny because you both made the same mistakes about the death rates to argue for the same political bias.

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