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Reply #330 posted 08/01/21 5:35pm

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:



Those that have had the covid shots are the real super spreaders!

  • Based on the scientific evidence, the narrative that unvaccinated people are viral factories for more dangerous variants is false.
  • Just as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines put evolutionary pressure on viruses to speed up mutations and create more virulent and dangerous variants.
  • Viruses mutate all the time, and if you have a vaccine that doesn’t block infection completely, then the virus will mutate to evade the immune response within that person. That is one of the distinct features of the COVID shots — they’re not designed to block infection. They allow infection to occur and at best lessen the symptoms of that infection.
  • In an unvaccinated person, the virus does not encounter the same evolutionary pressure to mutate into something stronger. So, if SARS-CoV-2 does end up mutating into more lethal strains, then mass vaccination is the most likely driver.
  • So far, SARS-CoV-2 variants are at most 0.3% different from the original Wuhan virus. Such minor variation means the virus will not present itself as a new virus. If you’ve recovered from COVID-19, your immune system will still recognize it.

https://www.lifesitenews....mutations/



.

Bullshit.

.

This and the article it is from shows a complete lack of understanding of the science.

.

The volumes of people that get infected and pass the virus on are the viral factories, all of us. This includes people that have had Covid, had two shots, one-shot or an unvaccinated person getting it for the first time. This is why people are being advised to wear masks and socially distance when there is a spike even if they have had Covid or are fully vaccinated. The reason unvaccinated people (who also have not had covid) are the key superspreaders is people with an immune system that can fight the virus (be it via having had covid or having had a vaccine that tricks the immune system so it acts like you had covid) are much more likely to defeat any viral load so they do not end up spreading it to as many people (they have a lower k-score).

.

However, it is possible for people who have had covid or are vaccinated to also be super-spreaders. There is the issue that 2% of people who have had covid or are fully vaccinated (with a better vaccine than the Chinese one) do not have a good enough immune response to prevent the viral load from growing quickly enough to prevent them from catching covid and spreading it. This may be because of an underlying immune system issue (eg I cannot be made hepatitis B immune) or they are sick with something that compromises their immune response. More of the people who have had dud vaccines (eg like Sinovac) or only one shot so far will be more like the unvaccinated. Higher k-scores leading to super-spreader events will result if such a person fails to mask up and lockdown regardless of whether they are unvaccinated or vaccinated - the biggest risk is people who don't know they are carrying an infectious viral load (this is more likely to be people who have had covid or at least one shot but will include unvaccinated people not currently showing symptoms) and idiots who can't follow basic medical advice because the failed coup leader made it a political issue. Australia has such idiots, but as the major right-wing and major left-wing parties decided to act sensibly, our idiots tend to follow the minority extremist parties like the fascist far-right One Nation and nut-job far-left or anti-vaxxers.

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Reply #331 posted 08/01/21 5:47pm

IanRG

CherryMoon57 said:

IanRG said:

.

So much for you seeking to discuss this as an adult.

.

It has nothing to do with everyone else thinking they are perfect or even right when all they did was point out facts that demonstrate that your opinion may be flawed as it is based on misreading and editing. If I was caught out three times so easily in the one thread deliberately ignoring crucial parts from the links I made, then I too would be embarrassed. However, I never would cover this embarrassment by lashing out with "ooh you think your are perfect" jibes.

.

Nothing you have said justifies changing how causes of deaths are recorded so that when you want them low (ie covid related deaths), it must "the main cause of death" and recognise that other things like a cold could kill also an immunocompromised older person. However, when you want it high (ie covid vaccine deaths), it must include every mathematically possible death unless each and every one is specifically eliminated.

.

This is not a vice versa issue as demonstrated by your acceptance that what I pointed out to you in the latest version of the old guide you quoted from addresses the issue you raised. Using your method in the paragraph above most deaths from cold and flu deaths would be excluded as not verified by a test as the main cause. That is unless there was a political imperative to overstate them, so everyone who died within 14 days of buying cold and flu tablets or cough mixture was counted as cold and flu death until their death is specifically eliminated. The difference between a yellow card list and including people who died in circumstances reflecting a potential covid death who had a recent positive covid test is enormous. Think about it: if even one person who died in a bus accident was counted as a covid death and this was not corrected, this would be plastered all over the media and social media.

Stilll not convinced, but thanks for trying anyway.

.

You can lead a horse to water ...

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Reply #332 posted 08/01/21 5:59pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

As many things as the so-called experts got completely and absolutely 180° wrong... Considering how things we know now are true got people banned attacked kicked off various social media outlets... Considering some people totally got the basics of this disease wrong... Now that we're learning that the federal government helped cover up the lab's role or potential role or possible role which if true led to the death of millions of people. Considering how leadership in New York that disgusting governor in that pig of a mayor and many liberal Democrats helped to kill many many people by their bickering and political games... I would say it's safe not to trust anything anyone says. But we see their many people who are sheep and accept all the changes and still cannot admit that some of the people they were attacking last year have been proven to be correct.
i dIdn't reAd aNy of that gaRbaG
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Reply #333 posted 08/01/21 6:02pm

PennyPurple

avatar

It amazes me that you have no interest in getting the vaccine, no interest in wearing a mask, no interest in staying home and don't care if you get it or not, and yet you keep spreading lies about it.

djThunderfunk said:



Those that have had the covid shots are the real super spreaders!

  • Based on the scientific evidence, the narrative that unvaccinated people are viral factories for more dangerous variants is false.
  • Just as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines put evolutionary pressure on viruses to speed up mutations and create more virulent and dangerous variants.
  • Viruses mutate all the time, and if you have a vaccine that doesn’t block infection completely, then the virus will mutate to evade the immune response within that person. That is one of the distinct features of the COVID shots — they’re not designed to block infection. They allow infection to occur and at best lessen the symptoms of that infection.
  • In an unvaccinated person, the virus does not encounter the same evolutionary pressure to mutate into something stronger. So, if SARS-CoV-2 does end up mutating into more lethal strains, then mass vaccination is the most likely driver.
  • So far, SARS-CoV-2 variants are at most 0.3% different from the original Wuhan virus. Such minor variation means the virus will not present itself as a new virus. If you’ve recovered from COVID-19, your immune system will still recognize it.

https://www.lifesitenews....mutations/



U.S.A.
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Reply #334 posted 08/01/21 6:05pm

PennyPurple

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

As many things as the so-called experts got completely and absolutely 180° wrong... Considering how things we know now are true got people banned attacked kicked off various social media outlets... Considering some people totally got the basics of this disease wrong... Now that we're learning that the federal government helped cover up the lab's role or potential role or possible role which if true led to the death of millions of people. Considering how leadership in New York that disgusting governor in that pig of a mayor and many liberal Democrats helped to kill many many people by their bickering and political games... I would say it's safe not to trust anything anyone says. But we see their many people who are sheep and accept all the changes and still cannot admit that some of the people they were attacking last year have been proven to be correct.

And yet you couldn't wait to get your vax, you even signed up to be in a study, hoping you'd get the real thing and not a placebo.

U.S.A.
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Reply #335 posted 08/01/21 6:38pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

PennyPurple said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

As many things as the so-called experts got completely and absolutely 180° wrong... Considering how things we know now are true got people banned attacked kicked off various social media outlets... Considering some people totally got the basics of this disease wrong... Now that we're learning that the federal government helped cover up the lab's role or potential role or possible role which if true led to the death of millions of people. Considering how leadership in New York that disgusting governor in that pig of a mayor and many liberal Democrats helped to kill many many people by their bickering and political games... I would say it's safe not to trust anything anyone says. But we see their many people who are sheep and accept all the changes and still cannot admit that some of the people they were attacking last year have been proven to be correct.

And yet you couldn't wait to get your vax, you even signed up to be in a study, hoping you'd get the real thing and not a placebo.


Yeah? And that is perfectly consistant with what I said. Oh and you are welcome!

i dIdn't reAd aNy of that gaRbaG
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Reply #336 posted 08/01/21 7:38pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

PennyPurple said:

It amazes me that you have no interest in getting the vaccine, no interest in wearing a mask, no interest in staying home and don't care if you get it or not, and yet you keep spreading lies about it.

djThunderfunk said:



Those that have had the covid shots are the real super spreaders!

  • Based on the scientific evidence, the narrative that unvaccinated people are viral factories for more dangerous variants is false.
  • Just as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines put evolutionary pressure on viruses to speed up mutations and create more virulent and dangerous variants.
  • Viruses mutate all the time, and if you have a vaccine that doesn’t block infection completely, then the virus will mutate to evade the immune response within that person. That is one of the distinct features of the COVID shots — they’re not designed to block infection. They allow infection to occur and at best lessen the symptoms of that infection.
  • In an unvaccinated person, the virus does not encounter the same evolutionary pressure to mutate into something stronger. So, if SARS-CoV-2 does end up mutating into more lethal strains, then mass vaccination is the most likely driver.
  • So far, SARS-CoV-2 variants are at most 0.3% different from the original Wuhan virus. Such minor variation means the virus will not present itself as a new virus. If you’ve recovered from COVID-19, your immune system will still recognize it.

https://www.lifesitenews....mutations/




It doesn't amaze me or surprise me at all that you would be the kind of person that was taken in by the fear mongering covid cult. I'm sure you didn't make it difficult for them.

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Reply #337 posted 08/01/21 7:49pm

PennyPurple

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Deranged and enraged you are.

Florida is now leading the nation in per capita hospitalizations for COVID-19, as hospitals around the state report having to put emergency room visitors in beds in hallways and others document a noticeable drop in the age of patients.

In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida.

U.S.A.

U.S.A.
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Reply #338 posted 08/01/21 7:56pm

Strive

Fun fact coming soon. Like all good conspiracy theories, this will be pushed as a shocking discovery in 6-12 months. But remember you heard it from Strive first.

Antibodies from the vaccine cut in half after 2 months and drop to zero after 6 months.

Hope everybody enjoys reupping on their science juice. lol lol lol
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Reply #339 posted 08/01/21 8:23pm

IanRG

Strive said:

Fun fact coming soon. Like all good conspiracy theories, this will be pushed as a shocking discovery in 6-12 months. But remember you heard it from Strive first. Antibodies from the vaccine cut in half after 2 months and drop to zero after 6 months. Hope everybody enjoys reupping on their science juice. lol lol lol

.

As ever you have this wrong.

.

It is already known that the antibody count falls. It falls for both the count after having covid or having the vaccine. This is normal and is how our immune systems functions. Sustained high levels of antibodies means the body is experiencing sustained exposure to the infections. What is important is that the body can create enough antibodies quickly enough to defeat a new future viral load from its stable base of antibodies and knowledge of the threat. The open questions are whether sufficient will remain and whether they will work on the strain around when you are potentially exposed in the future.

.

It is very telling that you get enjoyment from people potentially suffering and dieing from a pandemic and you have such a contempt for science and medical efforts. This is what happens when you have sold you soul to politics and the failure you keep on arguing for stuffed up so badly by politicising the pandemic instead of managing it.

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Reply #340 posted 08/01/21 8:25pm

Strive

Die mad smile
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Reply #341 posted 08/02/21 12:47am

CherryMoon57

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

As many things as the so-called experts got completely and absolutely 180° wrong... Considering how things we know now are true got people banned attacked kicked off various social media outlets... Considering some people totally got the basics of this disease wrong... Now that we're learning that the federal government helped cover up the lab's role or potential role or possible role which if true led to the death of millions of people. Considering how leadership in New York that disgusting governor in that pig of a mayor and many liberal Democrats helped to kill many many people by their bickering and political games... I would say it's safe not to trust anything anyone says. But we see their many people who are sheep and accept all the changes and still cannot admit that some of the people they were attacking last year have been proven to be correct.


You're right. Just how long it took for AZ and officials to admit the link between the vaccine and all the blood clots incidents says a lot. We were told it was 'just a drop in the ocean' and 'very rare' and the sceptic, as usual, was shamed. In the end, research actually found 'an increase in venous thromboembolic events of 11 (95% confidence interval 5.6 to 17) excess events per 100 000'. That's not a small risk.


'This study has been able to give a better understanding of the excess population risks after immunisation. The risk of thrombosis at 11 excess events per 100 000 vaccinations are higher than estimated by the European Medicines Agency. The EMA estimates the risk of thrombosis to be between 1 and 2 per 100 000 people, depending on age.'

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/05/thrombosis-and-bleeding-after-the-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccination/

Life Matters
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Reply #342 posted 08/02/21 1:33am

phunkdaddy

avatar

Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations

Sun, August 1, 2021, 1:41 PM

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — A day after it recorded the most new daily cases since the start of the pandemic, Florida on Sunday broke a previous record for current hospitalizations set more than a year ago before vaccines were available.

The Sunshine State had 10,207 people hospitalized with confirmed COVID-19 cases, according to data reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.

The previous record was from July 23, 2020, more than a half-year before vaccinations started becoming widespread, when Florida had 10,170 hospitalizations, according to the Florida Hospital Association.

Florida is now leading the nation in per capita hospitalizations for COVID-19, as hospitals around the state report having to put emergency room visitors in beds in hallways and others document a noticeable drop in the age of patients.

In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida.

The hospitalizations and increasing cases have come as the new, more transmittable delta variant has spread throughout Florida, and residents have returned to pre-pandemic activities.

“The recent rise is both striking and not-at-all surprising,” Salemi said in an email late Saturday.

Federal health data released Saturday showed that Florida reported 21,683 new cases of COVID-19, the state’s highest one-day total since the start of the pandemic. The latest numbers were recorded on Friday and released on Saturday on the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s website. The figures show how quickly the number of cases is rising in the Sunshine State: only a day earlier, Florida reported 17,093 new daily cases.

Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has resisted mandatory mask mandates and vaccine requirements, and along with the state Legislature, has limited local officials’ ability to impose restrictions meant to stop the spread of COVID-19. DeSantis on Friday barred school districts from requiring students to wear masks when classes resume next month.

Florida's Democratic agriculture commissioner, Nikki Fried, who is seeking to run against DeSantis for governor, on Sunday urged unvaccinated Floridians to get the shots. She said she was heartened by a recent uptick in vaccinations in the state.

“We are already behind the curve and in a worse spot every time the numbers come out," Fried said at a news conference in Tallahassee. “This surge is and will impact every single one of us."

Throughout Florida, from Jacksonville to Miami to Tampa, hospitals have become overwhelmed.

Barry Burton, the Pinellas County administrator, told the Tampa Bay Times that some local hospitals are already having to divert ambulances to different locations because of capacity concerns.

There has been a startling rise in the number of children with the virus at hospitals in Miami, many of them requiring intensive care.

Memorial Health’s Joe DiMaggio Children’s Hospital in Hollywood had seven patients with COVID-19. At Nicklaus Children’s Hospital in Miami, there were 17 patients with COVID-19 on Friday, including six in the ICU and one who needed a ventilator, Dr. Marcos Mestre, vice president and chief medical officer, told the Miami Herald.

About half of the patients were under 12, Mestre said, and the rest were older and eligible for the vaccine. But none of the patients with COVID-19 at Nicklaus Children’s on Friday were vaccinated. Most children who get COVID-19 do not need hospitalization, Mestre said.

In the state capital, COVID-19 hospitalizations reached 70 patients on Sunday at Tallahassee Memorial HealthCare, a jump of 11 people in two days.

“This is the most we’ve ever had,” Stephanie Derzypolski, a hospital spokeswoman, told the Tallahassee Democrat.

The Mayo Clinic hospital in Jacksonville said it had exceeded its capacity of 304 licensed beds due to COVID-19 cases and asked the Agency for Health Care Administration for permission to operate overcapacity until the current surge ends, First Coast News in Jacksonville reported Sunday.

At the UF Health North hospital emergency room in Jacksonville, COVID-19 patients once again were being put in beds in hallways due to a surge in visits.

For many hospital workers, up until a month ago, it looked like there was light at the end of the tunnel, as people got vaccinated and hospitalizations decreased. But then the summer surge, powered by the new delta variant, hit Florida in July.

“That light did turn out to be a train in this case,” Marsha Tittle, a nursing manager at UF Health North, told The Florida Times Union. “We’re taking more patients than we normally would take. ... My staff is wonderful. You walk out there, they’re going to have smiles on their faces and they’re doing a great job. But there’s a sense of defeat, like they’re just defeated.”

___

This story has been corrected to reflect hospitalizations broke 10,000-person threshold, not 1,000-person threshold.

Our goal is to create a safe and engaging place for users to connect over interests and passions. In order to improve our community experience, we are temporarily suspending article commenting.

Who Are the Unvaccinated in America? There's No One Answer.

Sun, August 1, 2021, 9:56 AM
Steven Harris, 58, who said he believes that the antibodies he has from getting COVID-19 are sufficiently protective, in Scottsdale, Ariz., on June 26, 2021. (Adriana Zehbrauskas/The New York Times)
Steven Harris, 58, who said he believes that the antibodies he has from getting COVID-19 are sufficiently protective, in Scottsdale, Ariz., on June 26, 2021. (Adriana Zehbrauskas/The New York Times)

As coronavirus cases rise across the United States, the fight against the pandemic is focused on an estimated 93 million people who are eligible for shots but have chosen not to get them. These are the Americans who are most vulnerable to serious illness from the highly contagious delta variant and most likely to carry the virus, spreading it further.

It turns out, though, that this is not a single set of Americans, but in many ways two.

In one group are those who say they are adamant in their refusal of the coronavirus vaccines; they include a mix of people but tend to be disproportionately white, rural, evangelical Christian and politically conservative, surveys show.

Sign up for The Morning newsletter from the New York Times

In the other are those who say they are open to getting a shot but have been putting it off or want to wait and see before making a decision; they are a broad range of people but tend to be a more diverse and urban group, including many younger people, Black and Latino Americans, and Democrats.

With cases surging and hospitalizations rising, health officials are making progress in inoculating this second group, who surveys suggest account for less than half of all unvaccinated adults in the United States.

The problem is, the same surveys show that the group firmly opposed to the vaccines outnumbers those willing to be swayed. And unless the nation finds a way to persuade the unwavering, escaping the virus’s grip will be a long way off because they make up as much as 20% of the adult population.

Interviews this past week with dozens of people in 17 states presented a portrait of the unvaccinated in the United States, people driven by a wide mix of sometimes overlapping fears, conspiracy theories, concern about safety and generalized skepticism of powerful institutions tied to the vaccines, including the pharmaceutical industry and the federal government.

Myrna Patterson, 85, a Democrat from Rochester, New York, who works at a hospital, said she could not shake her worry that the vaccines were produced too quickly. “Is it really worth me taking it?” Patterson said. “How do they know that it will kill the virus and if it’s really good for humans to be taking this vaccine?”

Hannah Reid, 30, a mother of four and a certified sommelier in Oregon who is an unaffiliated voter, said she had long been apprehensive about vaccines; her young children get many but not all pediatric shots. She said her Christian faith has also made her comfortable with not yet getting a COVID-19 shot, which she thinks is too new, the conversation around it too noisy and bombastic.

Alex Garcia, 25, who is not tied to any political party and works in landscaping in Texas, said he believed he was too young and healthy to need a vaccine. “My immune system could fight it,” Garcia said. He said he did not worry about infecting his unvaccinated 86-year-old grandmother, either.

About 30% of the adult population in the United States has yet to receive a shot, and about 58% of those ages 12-17 have yet to receive a shot.

Part of the challenge is that the unvaccinated live in communities dotted throughout the United States, in both lightly and densely populated counties. Although some states like Missouri and Arkansas have significantly lagged behind the nation in vaccination rates, unvaccinated Americans are, to varying degrees, everywhere. In Cook County, Illinois, which includes Chicago, 51% of residents are fully vaccinated. Los Angeles County is barely higher, at 53%. In Wake County, North Carolina, part of the liberal, high-tech Research Triangle area, the vaccination rate is 55%.

The rate of vaccinations across the country has slowed significantly since April, but there are signs in recent days of a new rise in shots being distributed, with upticks in vaccinations particularly in states like Arkansas, Louisiana and Missouri, where cases have grown. As of Friday, about 652,000 doses, on average, were being given each day, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; that was up from recent weeks, when the country hovered just above 500,000 shots a day. Nationwide, about 97% of people hospitalized with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, federal data shows.

How many people eventually decide to get shots could help determine the course of the virus and severity of illnesses across the country, so efforts to convince the unvaccinated — both the group that is waiting and watching and the vehemently opposed — have gained steam with advertising campaigns, incentives and new mandates. Some experts have estimated that 90% or more of the total population — adults and children — would need to be fully vaccinated for the country to reach a possibly elusive herd immunity threshold of protection against the coronavirus.

So far excluded from the debate over vaccination are 48 million unvaccinated children younger than 12, who are too young to be eligible for a shot until at least fall. They make up 15% of the total population in the United States. Once they are eligible, it is uncertain how many will get shots; even some vaccinated parents are hesitant to inoculate their children, surveys show.

Doctors say they are working to convince reluctant Americans, sometimes in long conversations that unravel falsehoods about vaccines.

Dr. Laolu Fayanju, a family medicine doctor in Ohio, has encountered patients on both ends of the spectrum: those who are insistent in their refusal to be vaccinated and others who agree to a shot after he painstakingly lays out facts.

Never did he expect that so many Americans would still be resisting a shot this many months into the vaccination effort.

“I vacillate between anguish and anger,” Fayanju said. “We live in an era of unprecedented scientific breakthroughs and expertise. But we’re also stymied by the forces of misinformation that undermine the true knowledge that is out there.”

Already Vaccinated

In the first weeks of the nation’s vaccination effort, health officials could not distribute shots quickly enough to millions who rushed for them, beginning with health care employees, essential workers and older Americans, who were particularly at risk of dying from the coronavirus, which has killed more than 600,000 people across the country.

Over time, the people choosing vaccines shifted markedly, according to CDC data, which captures race and ethnicity for about 60% of vaccine recipients.

White people, who were vaccinated at a higher rate than Black and Hispanic people earlier this year, make up a larger share of the vaccinated population than the overall population, but that share has been shrinking.

The daily vaccination rate per capita among Asian Americans started out comparable to that among white people, then accelerated when availability opened to all age groups, and now slightly surpasses white people. Black and Hispanic people were being vaccinated at a lower per capita rate than other groups at the beginning, but since April, the vaccination rate for Hispanic people began to rise above other groups.

Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, Native Americans and Alaskan Natives, who make up a smaller proportion of the overall population, have surpassed other groups in total percentage vaccinated but still include large numbers of unvaccinated people.

Figuring out exactly who is not vaccinated is more complicated; federal authorities have mainly tracked the people getting shots, not those who have not gotten them. But several surveys of adults — from the Kaiser Family Foundation, AP-NORC, Morning Consult, Civis Analytics, the Ad Council and the Census Bureau — together present a sense of the range of who the unvaccinated are, an essential set of data as health officials seek to convince reluctant Americans.

‘Wait-and-Sees’

About 10% of American adults have made it clear in interviews, discussions with family members and conversations with survey researchers that under certain circumstances, they are open to being convinced to get a vaccine.

With the help of a friend who is a nurse, Lakeshia Drew, 41, of Kansas City, Missouri, has been on her own journey for weeks. Drew, who voted for President Joe Biden but is unaffiliated with a political party, said she was learning all she could about the risks that the coronavirus carries and how a vaccine could protect her from getting critically ill.

As the delta variant has spiked case numbers in her area, she has decided that her family will need to get vaccinated before receiving every last answer to its questions.

“It’s gone from, ‘We aren’t getting it,’ to, ‘OK, if I get more information, I’m going to get it,” she said of the shot. “I would rather get it than to bury any one of my children or to have them bury me.”

Drew and other people in the so-called wait-and-see group tend to be younger and harbor more concerns about the safety of the vaccines. They may be worried that the vaccines are too new, or about what friends have told them about side effects.

In one Kaiser survey, 44% said they would be more likely to get a vaccine once it is fully approved by the Food and Drug Administration. Currently, the three coronavirus vaccines being offered in the United States have only been granted an emergency use authorization, a step short of full approval.

“It’s kind of like the known versus the unknown for some of those people,” said Mollyann Brodie, an executive vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation, who runs the group’s survey research. “Fear is a hard thing to overcome, and there has been a lot of fearmongering with relation to the vaccine, and there is a lot of stuff that isn’t known about it.”

Some adults younger than 50, in particular, suggest that the risk of an unknown vaccine feels greater than the uncertainty of its benefits.

Don Driscoll, 38, who is from Pittsburgh and calls himself a socially liberal Republican, said he has opted for now against vaccination because of safety concerns.

“I don’t think there’s a conspiracy. I don’t think Bill Gates is shooting microchips into my veins,” he said. “I don’t think the Democrats want to kill half the population. I am just not an early adopter of anything, really.”

Some people who have yet to get vaccinated say they have encountered obstacles to obtaining shots, are worried about hidden costs or are waiting until they can get a shot from someone they trust. But the share of unvaccinated Americans who are held up because of issues of convenience is shrinking, survey research shows.

For some Latino immigrants, fear of immigration authorities has been a roadblock.

For instance, grassroots organizers recently hosted a vaccine clinic at a supermarket in Merced, a city in California’s fertile Central Valley that draws farmworkers from Mexico. But some residents say they were turned away by the health care workers administering the vaccines because they did not have government-issued IDs — although officials have said that only proof of age should be required.

“For the undocumented, their fears are not the vaccine but the record-keeping that goes along with it,” said Dr. Richard Pan, a pediatrician and Democratic state senator in California who has gone into neighborhoods to knock on doors and urge people to get inoculated.

A substantial share of the wait-and-see group — more than 40% in the Kaiser survey — says it would be motivated by vaccine mandates.

But San Francisco became one of the first cities to impose a vaccine mandate for its nearly 35,000 city workers and immediately encountered resistance from labor unions and other organizations.

“I don’t believe in mandates of any kind,” said Sherman Tillman, president of the San Francisco Black Firefighters Association, who described himself as a conservative Democrat. “I don’t believe that governments should force our workers to do anything about their bodies and health. I think it’s an individual choice.”

Other people who have skipped vaccinations so far but said they might be persuaded said they planned to rely on advice from their own doctors — whenever their next checkup might be.

Candice Nelson, a personal assistant in Spartanburg, South Carolina, has suffered medical challenges before. She is a cancer survivor who endured chemotherapy. And she had COVID-19 several months ago, spending three days in a hospital to recover.

Yet she is in no hurry to receive a vaccine — until she can discuss it with the doctor who treated her cancer at their next appointment. Her employer has asked her to be vaccinated and is pressuring her for an answer.

“I’ll go with what my doctor says,” she said, adding that she would also be responsive to a requirement at her job.

The CDC recommends vaccines even for people who have been infected with the virus. Some evidence suggests a prior infection offers less protection than a vaccine, particularly against variants like delta.

Firmly Opposed

For Troy Maturin, from Abbeville, Louisiana, the rapid spread of the delta variant through his state does not make him more interested in getting the vaccine. To the contrary: He takes it as further evidence, he said, that the vaccines are a government plot.

“They’d have to Taser me, drag me out and give it to me while I’m unaware of it,” Maturin, a 50-year-old auto parts salesman who described himself as conservative, said at the suggestion of a mandate.

Maturin belongs to the group of unvaccinated Americans who are unlikely to say they could be persuaded with improved convenience or even requirements. They are far less concerned about getting seriously ill with COVID-19 and much more likely to say they do not trust the government or the pharmaceutical companies that have developed the shots. They are not opposed to all vaccinations, but very few of them get annual flu shots.

Several studies have suggested that a Republican Party affiliation is among the best predictors of membership in this group. But the demographics of the group also overlap with key Republican constituencies. People who say they will never get a COVID-19 vaccine are disproportionately likely to be white and to live in rural areas. They are overrepresented in the South and the Midwest.

Pete Sims, 82, recalls ducking mandatory vaccines during his time in the Air Force in the late 1950s.

Servicemen would periodically line up, hold out a vaccination card, get it stamped and when their turn came, hold out their arms.

Moments before the injection, Sims always managed to take a bathroom break. He said he would emerge after his turn had passed.

Now he lives in Houston and identifies as more of a libertarian than a Republican, though he voted for Donald Trump in November. But Sims was emphatic that his politics have not shaped his nearly lifelong antipathy to vaccines.

“It has to do with my civil rights,” he said. “The United States government’s main job is to protect me from foreign and domestic enemies. Not my health. I’m in charge of my health.”

Angelique White, 28, a hairstylist in Romulus, Michigan, is firm in her decision not to be vaccinated, despite pressure from her boyfriend to get the shot. White, who is a Jehovah’s Witness and does not vote, had several cousins who died from COVID-19. But she believes that years ago, when she and her twin sister became violently ill, they were reacting to a flu shot. They never got another vaccine.

“I wear my mask, I sanitize my hands and do it like that,” White said. “I think I’ll be fine.”

She has not spoken with her doctor or pastor about the vaccines. There is no need, she said; her mind is made up, and she has moved on.

© 2021 The New York Times Company

Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #343 posted 08/02/21 2:20am

IanRG

CherryMoon57 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

As many things as the so-called experts got completely and absolutely 180° wrong... Considering how things we know now are true got people banned attacked kicked off various social media outlets... Considering some people totally got the basics of this disease wrong... Now that we're learning that the federal government helped cover up the lab's role or potential role or possible role which if true led to the death of millions of people. Considering how leadership in New York that disgusting governor in that pig of a mayor and many liberal Democrats helped to kill many many people by their bickering and political games... I would say it's safe not to trust anything anyone says. But we see their many people who are sheep and accept all the changes and still cannot admit that some of the people they were attacking last year have been proven to be correct.


You're right. Just how long it took for AZ and officials to admit the link between the vaccine and all the blood clots incidents says a lot. We were told it was 'just a drop in the ocean' and 'very rare' and the sceptic, as usual, was shamed. In the end, research actually found 'an increase in venous thromboembolic events of 11 (95% confidence interval 5.6 to 17) excess events per 100 000'. That's not a small risk.


'This study has been able to give a better understanding of the excess population risks after immunisation. The risk of thrombosis at 11 excess events per 100 000 vaccinations are higher than estimated by the European Medicines Agency. The EMA estimates the risk of thrombosis to be between 1 and 2 per 100 000 people, depending on age.'

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/05/thrombosis-and-bleeding-after-the-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccination/

.

"This study has been able to give a better understanding of the excess population risks after immunisation. The risk of thrombosis at 11 excess events per 100 000 vaccinations are higher than estimated by the European Medicines Agency. The EMA estimates the risk of thrombosis to be between 1 and 2 per 100 000 people, depending on age. [2] But what this study and what the EMA are measuring are not the same. Pottegård and colleagues used only ICD-10 codes and so have not been able to identify confirmed cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia, which is the syndrome specifically linked to vaccination. Similarly, Pottegård and colleagues would likely not have been able to identify thrombosis in people who had not had a vaccine and who were primarily admitted for covid-19 and might not have been investigated for thrombotic events, or had those events recorded under a primary diagnosis of covid-19. Nevertheless, Pottegård and colleagues’ study does suggest that the risk of thromboembolic events after the covid-19 vaccine might be higher than suggested by pharmacovigilance reporting in either the UK or European safety monitoring schemes."

.

"Pottegård and colleagues’ study improves our understanding of the population risk of thromboembolic events after the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, although given that the authors were unable to identify the specific cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia this must still remain uncertain."

.

Once again you have been selective with your cut and paste and failed to read the rest of what was said. More importantly, this study is a virtual orphan as the majority of other studise and ACTUAL data on people vaccinated do not show the same results. Even this study had to explain away why its data showed a significantly lower death rate than predicted by trying to argue that perhaps those vaccinated were in better health than others with a poor and easily challenged argument:

.

"On the other hand, Pottegård and colleagues found 15 deaths from all causes after vaccination with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine compared withan expected 44 deaths. They argue that some of this reduced death rate after vaccination could be due to a healthy worker effect. [3,4] A large proportion of the people in Denmark and Norway who received the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were healthcare workers. Apparently, this vaccine was not generally rolled out to vulnerable adults younger than 65. However, the magnitude of this difference—a standardised ratio of just 0.34 (95% confidence interval 0.19 to 0.57)—is greater than would be expected from previous studies of the healthy worker effect. [3,4] Furthermore, of those who received the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, more would have received it because they were at an increased occupational risk of covid-19 infection and death. [5] Indeed, nurses and care workers generally have a relatively higher chance of dying from covid-19 and all causes than many other workers, irrespective of covid-19. [5]"

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Reply #344 posted 08/02/21 2:55am

TweetyV6

avatar

PennyPurple said:

Deranged and enraged you are.

Florida is now leading the nation in per capita hospitalizations for COVID-19, as hospitals around the state report having to put emergency room visitors in beds in hallways and others document a noticeable drop in the age of patients.

In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida.

U.S.A.


And if you would have read Hope-Simpsons work, you would have knonwn that the spread of the virus peaks around this time for countries in the (sub)tropics. So you should see a similar profile in most of the south-eastern states of the US. (Louisiana, Mississipi, Alabama, Georgia)

There are 2 peak periods in the 'all of US' graph, one in the winter for the northern states, one in the summer for the south-eastern states.

Same happened last year.

Same happens with other airborne virusses.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #345 posted 08/02/21 3:42am

TweetyV6

avatar

Strive said:

Fun fact coming soon. Like all good conspiracy theories, this will be pushed as a shocking discovery in 6-12 months. But remember you heard it from Strive first. Antibodies from the vaccine cut in half after 2 months and drop to zero after 6 months. Hope everybody enjoys reupping on their science juice. lol lol lol


Same happens when you've had Covid-19.
Same happens with ALL anti bodies.

Once there is no use for anti bodies anymore, your immune system stops producing them (wasting energy).

It then depends on your immunological memory.
The 'knowledge' on how to produce the antibodies is stored and can be recovered whenever necessary.

The duration of how long your immune system produces anti bodies also depends on the duration of your exposure to the virus.

In my case, I had Covid-19 in March 2020, but still (or again) had anti bodies in my blood in February 2021. Which can only mean that I hve been 'infected' 1 more more times since March 2020.

So having (had) anti bodies, be it from having had Covid-19 or being vaccinated, doesn't prevent you from getting infected and if your immune system is slow when you're infected again, you even can become infectious again.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #346 posted 08/02/21 3:43am

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

PennyPurple said:

Deranged and enraged you are.

Florida is now leading the nation in per capita hospitalizations for COVID-19, as hospitals around the state report having to put emergency room visitors in beds in hallways and others document a noticeable drop in the age of patients.

In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida.

U.S.A.


And if you would have read Hope-Simpsons work, you would have knonwn that the spread of the virus peaks around this time for countries in the (sub)tropics. So you should see a similar profile in most of the south-eastern states of the US. (Louisiana, Mississipi, Alabama, Georgia)

There are 2 peak periods in the 'all of US' graph, one in the winter for the northern states, one in the summer for the south-eastern states.

Same happened last year.

Same happens with other airborne virusses.

.

Florida has 3.5 peaks so far.

.

Peak 1: June to September 2020

.

Peak 2: November 2020 to January 2021

.

Peak 2.5: April 2020

.

Peak 3: July 2020 to ?

.

Aint it a shit when facts can't fit into neat assumptions?

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Reply #347 posted 08/02/21 3:44am

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

Strive said:

Fun fact coming soon. Like all good conspiracy theories, this will be pushed as a shocking discovery in 6-12 months. But remember you heard it from Strive first. Antibodies from the vaccine cut in half after 2 months and drop to zero after 6 months. Hope everybody enjoys reupping on their science juice. lol lol lol


Same happens when you've had Covid-19.
Same happens with ALL anti bodies.

Once there is no use for anti bodies anymore, your immune system stops producing them (wasting energy).

It then depends on your immunological memory.
The 'knowledge' on how to produce the antibodies is stored and can be recovered whenever necessary.

The duration of how long your immune system produces anti bodies also depends on the duration of your exposure to the virus.

In my case, I had Covid-19 in March 2020, but still (or again) had anti bodies in my blood in February 2021. Which can only mean that I hve been 'infected' 1 more more times since March 2020.

So having (had) anti bodies, be it from having had Covid-19 or being vaccinated, doesn't prevent you from getting infected and if your immune system is slow when you're infected again, you even can become infectious again.

.

Agreed.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will never seek to cancel you with an anti-free speech signature
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Reply #348 posted 08/02/21 6:30am

djThunderfunk

avatar

Mark Dice exposes that fascism is alive and well in America. Or Stalinism. Or whatever title the authoritarian control freaks thinks fits best. lol


https://www.youtube.com/w...BRLUGMeBL4




LIBERTY > AUTHORITY
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Reply #349 posted 08/02/21 8:58am

CherryMoon57

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

Mark Dice exposes that fascism is alive and well in America. Or Stalinism. Or whatever title the authoritarian control freaks thinks fits best. lol


https://www.youtube.com/w...BRLUGMeBL4




Fools rushing in? Nothing new here. lol

Life Matters
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Reply #350 posted 08/02/21 9:18am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

in the end we should have the right to choose to get it or not get it. Or wear a mask or not. What happened to privacy? We know of another non-bacterial contagion that people have but if we suggested that people show proof that they are not infected...

if one chooses to go out in public they choose to take that risk.

there are known and likely unknown side effects with shots and masks too!

and we have seen how some think we ought to require shots? or papers to go about normal daily routines... to them I say no thank you. (and if it comes to it I hope I have the moral courage to NEVER show any form of Vaxport... My Papers? "f--orget you!"

i dIdn't reAd aNy of that gaRbaG
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Reply #351 posted 08/02/21 9:19am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

Mark Dice exposes that fascism is alive and well in America. Or Stalinism. Or whatever title the authoritarian control freaks thinks fits best. lol


https://www.youtube.com/w...BRLUGMeBL4




scary... people better wake up! If they can do that for this they can do that for anything.

i dIdn't reAd aNy of that gaRbaG
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Reply #352 posted 08/02/21 9:25am

CherryMoon57

avatar

IanRG said:

CherryMoon57 said:


You're right. Just how long it took for AZ and officials to admit the link between the vaccine and all the blood clots incidents says a lot. We were told it was 'just a drop in the ocean' and 'very rare' and the sceptic, as usual, was shamed. In the end, research actually found 'an increase in venous thromboembolic events of 11 (95% confidence interval 5.6 to 17) excess events per 100 000'. That's not a small risk.


'This study has been able to give a better understanding of the excess population risks after immunisation. The risk of thrombosis at 11 excess events per 100 000 vaccinations are higher than estimated by the European Medicines Agency. The EMA estimates the risk of thrombosis to be between 1 and 2 per 100 000 people, depending on age.'

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/05/thrombosis-and-bleeding-after-the-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccination/

.

"This study has been able to give a better understanding of the excess population risks after immunisation. The risk of thrombosis at 11 excess events per 100 000 vaccinations are higher than estimated by the European Medicines Agency. The EMA estimates the risk of thrombosis to be between 1 and 2 per 100 000 people, depending on age. [2] But what this study and what the EMA are measuring are not the same. Pottegård and colleagues used only ICD-10 codes and so have not been able to identify confirmed cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia, which is the syndrome specifically linked to vaccination. Similarly, Pottegård and colleagues would likely not have been able to identify thrombosis in people who had not had a vaccine and who were primarily admitted for covid-19 and might not have been investigated for thrombotic events, or had those events recorded under a primary diagnosis of covid-19. Nevertheless, Pottegård and colleagues’ study does suggest that the risk of thromboembolic events after the covid-19 vaccine might be higher than suggested by pharmacovigilance reporting in either the UK or European safety monitoring schemes."

.

"Pottegård and colleagues’ study improves our understanding of the population risk of thromboembolic events after the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, although given that the authors were unable to identify the specific cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia this must still remain uncertain."

.

Once again you have been selective with your cut and paste and failed to read the rest of what was said. More importantly, this study is a virtual orphan as the majority of other studise and ACTUAL data on people vaccinated do not show the same results. Even this study had to explain away why its data showed a significantly lower death rate than predicted by trying to argue that perhaps those vaccinated were in better health than others with a poor and easily challenged argument:

.

"On the other hand, Pottegård and colleagues found 15 deaths from all causes after vaccination with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine compared withan expected 44 deaths. They argue that some of this reduced death rate after vaccination could be due to a healthy worker effect. [3,4] A large proportion of the people in Denmark and Norway who received the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were healthcare workers. Apparently, this vaccine was not generally rolled out to vulnerable adults younger than 65. However, the magnitude of this difference—a standardised ratio of just 0.34 (95% confidence interval 0.19 to 0.57)—is greater than would be expected from previous studies of the healthy worker effect. [3,4] Furthermore, of those who received the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, more would have received it because they were at an increased occupational risk of covid-19 infection and death. [5] Indeed, nurses and care workers generally have a relatively higher chance of dying from covid-19 and all causes than many other workers, irrespective of covid-19. [5]"


'Nevertheless, Pottegård and colleagues’ study does suggest that the risk of thromboembolic events after the covid-19 vaccine might be higher than suggested by pharmacovigilance reporting in either the UK or European safety monitoring schemes. '

Life Matters
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Reply #353 posted 08/02/21 11:30am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Wait? so dr fauci's big idea to fight delta is to do the exact same things that faild to work last year? Classic...

i dIdn't reAd aNy of that gaRbaG
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Reply #354 posted 08/02/21 1:13pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #355 posted 08/02/21 1:49pm

IanRG

CherryMoon57 said:

IanRG said:

.

"This study has been able to give a better understanding of the excess population risks after immunisation. The risk of thrombosis at 11 excess events per 100 000 vaccinations are higher than estimated by the European Medicines Agency. The EMA estimates the risk of thrombosis to be between 1 and 2 per 100 000 people, depending on age. [2] But what this study and what the EMA are measuring are not the same. Pottegård and colleagues used only ICD-10 codes and so have not been able to identify confirmed cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia, which is the syndrome specifically linked to vaccination. Similarly, Pottegård and colleagues would likely not have been able to identify thrombosis in people who had not had a vaccine and who were primarily admitted for covid-19 and might not have been investigated for thrombotic events, or had those events recorded under a primary diagnosis of covid-19. Nevertheless, Pottegård and colleagues’ study does suggest that the risk of thromboembolic events after the covid-19 vaccine might be higher than suggested by pharmacovigilance reporting in either the UK or European safety monitoring schemes."

.

"Pottegård and colleagues’ study improves our understanding of the population risk of thromboembolic events after the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, although given that the authors were unable to identify the specific cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia this must still remain uncertain."

.

Once again you have been selective with your cut and paste and failed to read the rest of what was said. More importantly, this study is a virtual orphan as the majority of other studise and ACTUAL data on people vaccinated do not show the same results. Even this study had to explain away why its data showed a significantly lower death rate than predicted by trying to argue that perhaps those vaccinated were in better health than others with a poor and easily challenged argument:

.

"On the other hand, Pottegård and colleagues found 15 deaths from all causes after vaccination with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine compared withan expected 44 deaths. They argue that some of this reduced death rate after vaccination could be due to a healthy worker effect. [3,4] A large proportion of the people in Denmark and Norway who received the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were healthcare workers. Apparently, this vaccine was not generally rolled out to vulnerable adults younger than 65. However, the magnitude of this difference—a standardised ratio of just 0.34 (95% confidence interval 0.19 to 0.57)—is greater than would be expected from previous studies of the healthy worker effect. [3,4] Furthermore, of those who received the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, more would have received it because they were at an increased occupational risk of covid-19 infection and death. [5] Indeed, nurses and care workers generally have a relatively higher chance of dying from covid-19 and all causes than many other workers, irrespective of covid-19. [5]"


'Nevertheless, Pottegård and colleagues’ study does suggest that the risk of thromboembolic events after the covid-19 vaccine might be higher than suggested by pharmacovigilance reporting in either the UK or European safety monitoring schemes. '

.

Yes, back in May a limited study performed from a dataset that was not able to identify confirmed cases with the specific syndrome linked to the vaccine or people who did not have the vaccine, had been admitted for Covid and were not investigated for thrombotis events - remember Covid has a higher rate of causing this events than the vaccine - was written up as SUGGESTING the risk MIGHT BE higher than the PV suggested. Even then, there were warnng signs that the study was flawed because it seriously overestimated the potential deaths. Because these deaths were far too low compared to their predictions, they had to rely on applying a healthy worker adjustment that was above its statistical norm to people who could not be considered to be more healthy and less prone to thrombosis because they were more exposed to Covid than the normal population.

.

Nevertheless, despite these issues with the study, precautions were taken around the world in case this pointed to an unseen issue with the vaccine - an abundance of caution is a good thing.

.

Everyone around the world knew from the first suspension that could be an issue with AZ in February, 3 months before this study. Many places suspended AZ to investigate the issue and virtually all resumed use of AZ on the basis of the results. The abundance of caution means that the data from other less flawed studies and the 10s of million of doses given world wide has NOT resulted in any increase in the rate of thrombosis deaths by recipients.

.

You are following and pushing anti-vaxxer scare mongering to make vaccines the enemy, whilst at the same time you are pushing for methods to reduce the number of covid deaths so these deaths are counted differently from every other cause of death deliberately to make these lower. World wide there have been 4.2 million covid deaths and this figure is an understatement. Yet thrombosis deaths by people who been vaccinated is in the 100s and no higher than would have been experienced without the vaccine. The abundance of caution has meant that people in high risk groups are given a different vaccine.

[Edited 8/2/21 14:28pm]

I may not agree with what you say, but I will never seek to cancel you with an anti-free speech signature
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Reply #356 posted 08/02/21 1:51pm

IanRG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Wait? so dr fauci's big idea to fight delta is to do the exact same things that faild to work last year? Classic...

.

He has one crucial advantage this time round - no failed coup leader to stuff it up completely.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will never seek to cancel you with an anti-free speech signature
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Reply #357 posted 08/02/21 2:04pm

IanRG

djThunderfunk said:

Mark Dice exposes that fascism is alive and well in America. Or Stalinism. Or whatever title the authoritarian control freaks thinks fits best. lol


https://www.youtube.com/w...BRLUGMeBL4




.

I am not watching this unless you can tell me whether this is part of Dice's illuminati and hidden underground cities conspiracies, the lies he made about the election, the way he tried to downplay the attempted coup on Jan 6, his subsequent call for GoP states to secede over a kid's toy, him confusing quotes by Alex Jones as if they were made by other people etc, etc.

.

Ahh, the bedfellows you have to rely on.

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Reply #358 posted 08/02/21 2:41pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

IanRG said:

CherryMoon57 said:


I am sorry Ian but I just don't understand your first paragraph. I am not sure what you mean by 'what you think initially happened in the early days etc.' What I was talking about is what is (still) happening with the way the death toll is initially reported (death within 28 days of a first positive test) vs how the death linked to the vaccine are reported or unconfirmed (see second paragraph). Your response doesn't seem to connect what I said somehow.

As for the issue of finding out about the actual verified vaccine-linked deaths, your response seems to confirm that there isn't any data currently available to the general public. Do you agree with this?

.

If that is what you meant, then you are wrong. There is no automatic assumption that every death within 28 days of covid test must be a covid death. Since 28 April 2020, ie for all the time except in early days of the pandemic, the NHS guidance is that the the death can only be recorded once it confirmed that covid was a direct or underlying cause of death or the person died in hospital from covid. In the former case, this can be by a covid test after death for the death certificate.

.

The full analysis ovfvaccine-linked deaths is being prepared according to the FOI requests, but figures show that the Astrazenica blood clot risk is 8 deaths per million or 0.00008%, way, way smaller than the deaths per case of Covid. The yellow card figure is red herring because it is prior to any determination that any vaccine was a direct or underlying cause of death. There is no inconsistency by me.


Hey Ian, can you please provide a link for the information about a 'full analysis of vaccines-linked deaths' being prepared? And also for the figure of 8 deaths per million you mentioned regarding the blood clot risk with Astra Zeneca. Thanks.

[Edited 8/2/21 14:44pm]

Life Matters
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Reply #359 posted 08/02/21 2:55pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

IanRG said:

CherryMoon57 said:


'Nevertheless, Pottegård and colleagues’ study does suggest that the risk of thromboembolic events after the covid-19 vaccine might be higher than suggested by pharmacovigilance reporting in either the UK or European safety monitoring schemes. '

.

Yes, back in May a limited study performed from a dataset that was not able to identify confirmed cases with the specific syndrome linked to the vaccine or people who did not have the vaccine, had been admitted for Covid and were not investigated for thrombotis events - remember Covid has a higher rate of causing this events than the vaccine - was written up as SUGGESTING the risk MIGHT BE higher than the PV suggested. Even then, there were warnng signs that the study was flawed because it seriously overestimated the potential deaths. Because these deaths were far too low compared to their predictions, they had to rely on applying a healthy worker adjustment that was above its statistical norm to people who could not be considered to be more healthy and less prone to thrombosis because they were more exposed to Covid than the normal population.

.

Nevertheless, despite these issues with the study, precautions were taken around the world in case this pointed to an unseen issue with the vaccine - an abundance of caution is a good thing.

.

Everyone around the world knew from the first suspension that could be an issue with AZ in February, 3 months before this study. Many places suspended AZ to investigate the issue and virtually all resumed use of AZ on the basis of the results. The abundance of caution means that the data from other less flawed studies and the 10s of million of doses given world wide has NOT resulted in any increase in the rate of thrombosis deaths by recipients.

.

You are following and pushing anti-vaxxer scare mongering to make vaccines the enemy, whilst at the same time you are pushing for methods to reduce the number of covid deaths so these deaths are counted differently from every other cause of death deliberately to make these lower. World wide there have been 4.2 million covid deaths and this figure is an understatement. Yet thrombosis deaths by people who been vaccinated is in the 100s and no higher than would have been experienced without the vaccine. The abundance of caution has meant that people in high risk groups are given a different vaccine.

[Edited 8/2/21 14:28pm]


No increase in thrombocytopenia events from the AZ covid vaccine?

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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