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Reply #120 posted 07/23/21 7:22pm

IanRG

2elijah said:

IanRG said:

.

As both a practicing Catholic heavily involved with the running of my local church and it Sunday evening Mass and a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a member of clergy, I could not care less about you needing to be background checked etc. and I commend the Church for doing this.

.

My abuser was in an Anglican (not Catholic but this makes no difference) ring that was run by a person who was a senior person in the local theology college and in managing children who were altar servers across the Diocese. He was protected by the local Bishops. He had a special room in the local orphanage for him and his inner circle to gang rape boys (I was never in that room, but I know people who were). This is what you are required by your faith to address. Not whether you are inconvenienced by processes to protect children that are common across many countries and across many religious, sporting, educational and cultural institutions. Not seeking to justify where people are still today hiding the truth and lying to cover up evil because of potential financial impacts. Not seeking to dismiss real concerns as just communists attacking Canadian pride. Not seeking to support the far-right obsession with treating any teaching of history that makes the far right and white supremacists look bad as CRT.

This^^. clapping (Also, sorry to hear what happened to you Ian, and hope your abuser answered for for what he did to you). [Edited 7/23/21 16:52pm]

.

My mother was able to limit the amount that I was abused. We then actively prevented him from abusing people where we knew of his latest target and had some successes. I found out later that my best friend was also a victim and I never knew!

.

We tried to get the Bishop at the time to shut this ring down, but he did not.

.

Later I was involved with the court case for what he did in my area and through the Baptist Church and a sporting body in another area. He spent the rest of his life in prison.

.

His groomer died before he was able to be brought to justice. The theological college and orphanage are no more.

.

My mother and I were involved with the Australian Royal Commission on institutional responses to child sexual abuse. We both made submissions and presentations before the Commissioner. This included what the local Bishop at the time did or did not know about the ring. He denied knowing about this to the Commissioner. It was heartening to hear the Commissioner say he believed people like mother much more than him and this made it to his written summation for that part of the Commission's findings. However, he has not answered for what he enabled by his inaction.

.

On a side note, the next Bishop in our area was later shortlisted to be the Archbishop of Canterbury (the most senior clergy position in the Anglican church). One of the people on the Synod responsible for this shortlist was on the Anglican Synod in my area. He was the person that my mother contacted on how to advise the Bishop of my abuse etc. as both my mother and he were at the local university together. His daughter was subsequently abused and this Bishop covered this up. He was removed from the shortlist. This Bishop was on the stand at the Royal Commission on the same day we were. As a result, he is no longer a serving Bishop and has had his licence to be a practising member of the clergy removed.

[Edited 7/23/21 19:27pm]

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Reply #121 posted 07/24/21 3:21am

2elijah

avatar

IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:


.


As both a practicing Catholic heavily involved with the running of my local church and it Sunday evening Mass and a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a member of clergy, I could not care less about you needing to be background checked etc. and I commend the Church for doing this.


.


My abuser was in an Anglican (not Catholic but this makes no difference) ring that was run by a person who was a senior person in the local theology college and in managing children who were altar servers across the Diocese. He was protected by the local Bishops. He had a special room in the local orphanage for him and his inner circle to gang rape boys (I was never in that room, but I know people who were). This is what you are required by your faith to address. Not whether you are inconvenienced by processes to protect children that are common across many countries and across many religious, sporting, educational and cultural institutions. Not seeking to justify where people are still today hiding the truth and lying to cover up evil because of potential financial impacts. Not seeking to dismiss real concerns as just communists attacking Canadian pride. Not seeking to support the far-right obsession with treating any teaching of history that makes the far right and white supremacists look bad as CRT.



This^^. clapping (Also, sorry to hear what happened to you Ian, and hope your abuser answered for for what he did to you). [Edited 7/23/21 16:52pm]

.


My mother was able to limit the amount that I was abused. We then actively prevented him from abusing people where we knew of his latest target and had some successes. I found out later that my best friend was also a victim and I never knew!


.


We tried to get the Bishop at the time to shut this ring down, but he did not.


.


Later I was involved with the court case for what he did in my area and through the Baptist Church and a sporting body in another area. He spent the rest of his life in prison.


.


His groomer died before he was able to be brought to justice. The theological college and orphanage are no more.


.


My mother and I were involved with the Australian Royal Commission on institutional responses to child sexual abuse. We both made submissions and presentations before the Commissioner. This included what the local Bishop at the time did or did not know about the ring. He denied knowing about this to the Commissioner. It was heartening to hear the Commissioner say he believed people like mother much more than him and this made it to his written summation for that part of the Commission's findings. However, he has not answered for what he enabled by his inaction.


.


On a side note, the next Bishop in our area was later shortlisted to be the Archbishop of Canterbury (the most senior clergy position in the Anglican church). One of the people on the Synod responsible for this shortlist was on the Anglican Synod in my area. He was the person that my mother contacted on how to advise the Bishop of my abuse etc. as both my mother and he were at the local university together. His daughter was subsequently abused and this Bishop covered this up. He was removed from the shortlist. This Bishop was on the stand at the Royal Commission on the same day we were. As a result, he is no longer a serving Bishop and has had his licence to be a practising member of the clergy removed.

[Edited 7/23/21 19:27pm]


Glad to hear you got justice, and applause to your mom, and you for taking action in exposing these kinds of sexual predators. It’s sad to hear that kind of abuse happens within a church, that’s suppose to teach values. The unfortunate thing is when sexual predators hide within the church, and their superiors try to hide their actions and deny it.

That’s the problem with some who don’t want to believe victims of these type predators, within the churches or religious schools, where parents trust the Church to protect their kids, only to find out this kind of abuse does happen.
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #122 posted 07/24/21 2:05pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

2elijah said:

IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:


.


As both a practicing Catholic heavily involved with the running of my local church and it Sunday evening Mass and a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a member of clergy, I could not care less about you needing to be background checked etc. and I commend the Church for doing this.


.


My abuser was in an Anglican (not Catholic but this makes no difference) ring that was run by a person who was a senior person in the local theology college and in managing children who were altar servers across the Diocese. He was protected by the local Bishops. He had a special room in the local orphanage for him and his inner circle to gang rape boys (I was never in that room, but I know people who were). This is what you are required by your faith to address. Not whether you are inconvenienced by processes to protect children that are common across many countries and across many religious, sporting, educational and cultural institutions. Not seeking to justify where people are still today hiding the truth and lying to cover up evil because of potential financial impacts. Not seeking to dismiss real concerns as just communists attacking Canadian pride. Not seeking to support the far-right obsession with treating any teaching of history that makes the far right and white supremacists look bad as CRT.



This^^. clapping (Also, sorry to hear what happened to you Ian, and hope your abuser answered for for what he did to you). [Edited 7/23/21 16:52pm]

.


My mother was able to limit the amount that I was abused. We then actively prevented him from abusing people where we knew of his latest target and had some successes. I found out later that my best friend was also a victim and I never knew!


.


We tried to get the Bishop at the time to shut this ring down, but he did not.


.


Later I was involved with the court case for what he did in my area and through the Baptist Church and a sporting body in another area. He spent the rest of his life in prison.


.


His groomer died before he was able to be brought to justice. The theological college and orphanage are no more.


.


My mother and I were involved with the Australian Royal Commission on institutional responses to child sexual abuse. We both made submissions and presentations before the Commissioner. This included what the local Bishop at the time did or did not know about the ring. He denied knowing about this to the Commissioner. It was heartening to hear the Commissioner say he believed people like mother much more than him and this made it to his written summation for that part of the Commission's findings. However, he has not answered for what he enabled by his inaction.


.


On a side note, the next Bishop in our area was later shortlisted to be the Archbishop of Canterbury (the most senior clergy position in the Anglican church). One of the people on the Synod responsible for this shortlist was on the Anglican Synod in my area. He was the person that my mother contacted on how to advise the Bishop of my abuse etc. as both my mother and he were at the local university together. His daughter was subsequently abused and this Bishop covered this up. He was removed from the shortlist. This Bishop was on the stand at the Royal Commission on the same day we were. As a result, he is no longer a serving Bishop and has had his licence to be a practising member of the clergy removed.

[Edited 7/23/21 19:27pm]


Glad to hear you got justice, and applause to your mom, and you for taking action in exposing these kinds of sexual predators. It’s sad to hear that kind of abuse happens within a church, that’s suppose to teach values. The unfortunate thing is when sexual predators hide within the church, and their superiors try to hide their actions and deny it.

That’s the problem with some who don’t want to believe victims of these type predators, within the churches or religious schools, where parents trust the Church to protect their kids, only to find out this kind of abuse does happen.


One of my good friends told me not long ago how her brother was molested as a child by a Catholic priest in their church as a child. He was broken because of those incidents- mental problems, alcohol and drug addiction, bouts of homelessness. Of course, the priest just kept getting moved around, and the leaders of the church covered it up. It took decades before this sick degenerate and a small portion of his crimes were exposed to the world.

But what is the price for a life destroyed ? My friend‘s brother lost everything a person could want- sanity, dignity, a chance to be a productive member of society. What is the proper compensation for someone like him?
[Edited 7/24/21 14:13pm]
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Reply #123 posted 07/24/21 2:16pm

2elijah

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:


Glad to hear you got justice, and applause to your mom, and you for taking action in exposing these kinds of sexual predators. It’s sad to hear that kind of abuse happens within a church, that’s suppose to teach values. The unfortunate thing is when sexual predators hide within the church, and their superiors try to hide their actions and deny it.

That’s the problem with some who don’t want to believe victims of these type predators, within the churches or religious schools, where parents trust the Church to protect their kids, only to find out this kind of abuse does happen.


One of my good friends told me not long ago how her brother was molested as a child by a Catholic priest in their church as a child. He was broken because of those incidents- mental problems, alcohol and drug addiction, bouts of homelessness. Of course, the priest just kept getting moved around, and the leaders of the church covered it up. It took decades before this sick degenerate and a small portion of his crimes were exposed to the world.

But what is the price for a life destroyed ? My friend‘s brother lost everything a person could want- sanity, dignity, a chance to be a productive member of society. What is the proper compensation for someone like him?
[Edited 7/24/21 14:13pm]

Wow, sorry to hear that. Some folks just don’t realize the years of trauma many victims suffer because of that.
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #124 posted 07/24/21 3:13pm

IanRG

jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:
Glad to hear you got justice, and applause to your mom, and you for taking action in exposing these kinds of sexual predators. It’s sad to hear that kind of abuse happens within a church, that’s suppose to teach values. The unfortunate thing is when sexual predators hide within the church, and their superiors try to hide their actions and deny it. That’s the problem with some who don’t want to believe victims of these type predators, within the churches or religious schools, where parents trust the Church to protect their kids, only to find out this kind of abuse does happen.
One of my good friends told me not long ago how her brother was molested as a child by a Catholic priest in their church as a child. He was broken because of those incidents- mental problems, alcohol and drug addiction, bouts of homelessness. Of course, the priest just kept getting moved around, and the leaders of the church covered it up. It took decades before this sick degenerate and a small portion of his crimes were exposed to the world. But what is the price for a life destroyed ? My friend‘s brother lost everything a person could want- sanity, dignity, a chance to be a productive member of society. What is the proper compensation for someone like him? [Edited 7/24/21 14:13pm]

.

This is why people HAVE TO BE inconvenienced by background checks and procedures to ensure the safety of children in organisations like churches. Most of us are innocent and dedicated to seeing that children are protected. As Penny and I pointed out this is across all religious, sporting, education, health and cultural organisations because these people have and continue to try to use these organisations.

.

The problem has not gone away, it has just changed form. The rings no longer have to infiltrate an organisation, and organisations are today less likely to try to cover up and shift to protect the organisation at the expense of the victim due to the law changes and public pressure. This has forced these rings to places like the dark web and social media.

.

And always remember child abuse is mostly committed by a member of the family or a close friend, not a religious leader, teacher, trainer, group organiser or health care professional.

.

And to bring this back to be more directly on the topic: I spoke to my Survivor zero (the first victim of my abuser). His life was destroyed in the same way as one your good friend's. For others it has destroyed the lives of their wives and children as well. I am talking about something where this individual started ~50 years ago that impacts generations today. The excuse offered that the mistreatment in this thread stopped 25 years ago is so lame and so outside of the teachings of Christ.

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Reply #125 posted 07/24/21 3:32pm

Strive

Who said I opposed it? I was using it as an example of how the church has changed for the better and is making strives to fix past mistakes despite what the church's critics claim.

But good job at being the devil's fool, Ian. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before you leave and blame people like me for your decision.

IanRG said:

As both a practicing Catholic heavily involved with the running of my local church and it Sunday evening Mass and a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a member of clergy, I could not care less about you needing to be background checked etc. and I commend the Church for doing this.

[Edited 7/24/21 15:36pm]

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Reply #126 posted 07/24/21 3:51pm

IanRG

Strive said:

Who said I opposed it? I was using it as an example of how the church has changed for the better and it making strives to fix past mistakes.

But good job at being the devil's fool, Ian.

IanRG said:

As both a practicing Catholic heavily involved with the running of my local church and it Sunday evening Mass and a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a member of clergy, I could not care less about you needing to be background checked etc. and I commend the Church for doing this.

[Edited 7/24/21 15:33pm]

.

Is this all you take away from this part of the discussion? Just another opportunity to loose yourself (and I quote you) "in the fun of being an asshole online".

.

It is lie that you only said that it was a change for the better. You said, (and again I quote you):

.

Strive said:

"Name another religion or organization that goes through the same process for volunteers that have a possiblity of being around children. And alot of the stuff in the video was way overly cautious, but they are trying to do right.

.

And what has that gotten them? Universal derision. Their enemies using it to try to tear down the church."

.

You have once again descended to personal attacks seeking to label people as working for the devil if they dare disagree with you. Yet it is you has spent this entire thread seeking to excuse, dismiss and blame everyone else for the evil done in Christ's name by people you seek to defend. You who have not shown compassion for the victims.

.

The Church is better off admitting its crimes, addressing them and seeking to prevent them ever occuring again, just the same as any other organisation. It is worse off when people from within act out of fear of the cost, the impacts on national pride or that it could be used by people who are more left wing than a far-right or white supremacist extremist.

[Edited 7/24/21 16:04pm]

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Reply #127 posted 07/24/21 4:08pm

Strive

You are right, Ian. Let them slander and tear down the church. Let me have unending compassion for even for the most ridiculous of stories, regardless of their motivations. Let both of us be place in chains for the rest of our nature days for our membership in such an evil and destructive relic of the past.

.

This is the Christian thing to do. Truly right and just.

.

And you are not the devil's fool for enabling this. And you certainly aren't blind in your thinking and prideful in your actions. No. You are right and I am wrong.

.

Do you feel better Ian? Can you let it go without response?

.

(And what I was referring to in the training video, the stuff that I felt was overly cautious, was stuff for youth leaders. If you are at an event where you are chaperoning and their ride doesn't show up, you shouldn't give them a ride home. If you have to communicate with them, you should call or text their parents' numbers instead of messaging them direct. Which is overly cautious but I can understand the church trying to potentially remove temptation and situations where individuals can be alone together. And you could have asked me for clarification instead of assuming the worst out of what I was saying...but you didn't smile )

.

(And yes, I did confession today. That's why I feel strengthened and renewed and ready to correct my behavior. Thank you for taking my post from another thread where I apologized to another poster and try to use portions of it against me in this thread. Certainly that isn't a demonic action and very Christlike of you. And really proves how fruitful it is to try to be open and honest and transparent with others.)

.

[Edited 7/24/21 16:38pm]

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Reply #128 posted 07/24/21 4:26pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Strive said:

Who said I opposed it? I was using it as an example of how the church has changed for the better and is making strives to fix past mistakes despite what the church's critics claim.

But good job at being the devil's fool, Ian. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before you leave and blame people like me for your decision.

[Edited 7/24/21 15:36pm]

Point is, for the victims nothing will fix the past mistakes. The victims and families live with it all their lives.


The Church hasn't changed that much. The abuse is still happening, they are still turning a blind eye. They just remove the perp and put them in another town, where it happens again.

U.S.A.
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Reply #129 posted 07/24/21 4:56pm

IanRG

Strive said:

You are right, Ian. Let them slander and tear down the church. Let me have unending compassion for even for the most ridiculous of stories, regardless of their motivations. Let both of us be place in chains for the rest of our nature days for our membership in such an evil and destructive relic of the past.

.

This is the Christian thing to do. Truly right and just.

.

And you are not the devil's fool for enabling this. And you certainly aren't blind in your thinking and prideful in your actions. No. You are right and I am wrong.

.

Do you feel better Ian? Can you let it go without response?

.

(And what I was referring to, the stuff that I felt was overly cautious, was stuff for youth leaders. If you are at an event where you are chaperoning and their ride doesn't show up, you shouldn't give them a ride home. If you have to communicate with them, you should call or text their parents' numbers instead of messaging them direct. Which is overly cautious but I can understand the church trying to potentially remove temptation and situations where individuals can be alone together. And you could have asked me for clarification instead of assuming the worst out of what I was saying...but you didn't smile )

.

(And yes, I did confession today. That's why I feel strengthened and renewed and ready to correct my behavior. Thank you for taking my posts from another thread and trying to use it against me in this one. Certainly that isn't a demonic action and very Christlike of you.)

.

[Edited 7/24/21 16:28pm]

.

Why your obsession with seeking to get the last word all the time? It is especially lame that you try to get the last word by attacking a person with vile accusations and then asking them to just let it go.

.

That you did confession is between you and God and should NEVER be used to boast and to justify this type of sarcastic response. This is a gross misuse of a Sacrament. What you said in confession is private but I trust that you confessed that you loose yourself in the fun of being an asshole on line. That you seek to accuse people of being evil and working for satan because they stand up for the victims of evil done by people in the churches. That you are simply too concerned about inconveniences, false pride in earthly goverments and by spreading myths that what Catholics must do to protect children is any different from what all other religions, sporting, cultural, educational and health related organisations also must do today.

.

What you have been referring to is clear. Your attempt to explain it away fails to make it any different from what I said. If I assumed the worst about you, ie for example, accusing you of working for devil as you keep on doing about me, then you could have a valid complaint.

.

The attacks on the church are valid and people that seek to deny this for earthly political and financial reasons are only encouraging more attacks. They are chasing more people away from faith.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:05pm]

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Reply #130 posted 07/24/21 5:14pm

Strive

You are evil. You are doing Satan's work. I speak no lies. You continually must have the last word and bend everything so you can "win" in a public forum. You have no desire to talk privately. You have no consideration for others. You also blocked me from orgnoting you, for sending you a single orgnote with a Catholic book recommendation, so I am forced to say all this publically.

.

Consider this the final response I give you on here.

.

(Now here's the part where you continually try to prod a response out of me. Once again proving that all the things I say about you are true.)

.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:23pm]

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Reply #131 posted 07/24/21 5:18pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

Strive said:

You are right, Ian. Let them slander and tear down the church. Let me have unending compassion for even for the most ridiculous of stories, regardless of their motivations. Let both of us be place in chains for the rest of our nature days for our membership in such an evil and destructive relic of the past.

.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 16:38pm]

What you call "slander" others consider the uncovering of uncomfortable and ugly truths .

NO organization, NO religion, NO person is ever above legitamte criticism and accountability

You're the Jim Jordan of this site

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Reply #132 posted 07/24/21 5:22pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

Strive said:

You are evil. You are doing Satan's work. I speak no lies. You continually must have the last word and bend everything so you can "win" in a public forum. You have no desire to talk privately. You have no consideration for others. You also blocked me from orgnoting you, for sending you a single orgnote with a Catholic book recommendation, so I am forced to say all this publically.

.

Consider this the final response I give you on here.

.

(Now here's the part where you continually try to prod a response out of me)

[Edited 7/24/21 17:19pm]

"Let Jesus fuck you ! Your mother sucks cocks in hell !"

https://www.youtube.com/w...zr3jx5Kjo0

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Reply #133 posted 07/24/21 5:24pm

Strive

jjhunsecker said:

"Let Jesus fuck you ! Your mother sucks cocks in hell !"

https://www.youtube.com/w...zr3jx5Kjo0

These are the people on your side. It's a big joke to them.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:26pm]

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Reply #134 posted 07/24/21 5:27pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

IanRG said:

jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said: One of my good friends told me not long ago how her brother was molested as a child by a Catholic priest in their church as a child. He was broken because of those incidents- mental problems, alcohol and drug addiction, bouts of homelessness. Of course, the priest just kept getting moved around, and the leaders of the church covered it up. It took decades before this sick degenerate and a small portion of his crimes were exposed to the world. But what is the price for a life destroyed ? My friend‘s brother lost everything a person could want- sanity, dignity, a chance to be a productive member of society. What is the proper compensation for someone like him? [Edited 7/24/21 14:13pm]

.

This is why people HAVE TO BE inconvenienced by background checks and procedures to ensure the safety of children in organisations like churches. Most of us are innocent and dedicated to seeing that children are protected. As Penny and I pointed out this is across all religious, sporting, education, health and cultural organisations because these people have and continue to try to use these organisations.

.

The problem has not gone away, it has just changed form. The rings no longer have to infiltrate an organisation, and organisations are today less likely to try to cover up and shift to protect the organisation at the expense of the victim due to the law changes and public pressure. This has forced these rings to places like the dark web and social media.

.

And always remember child abuse is mostly committed by a member of the family or a close friend, not a religious leader, teacher, trainer, group organiser or health care professional.

.

And to bring this back to be more directly on the topic: I spoke to my Survivor zero (the first victim of my abuser). His life was destroyed in the same way as one your good friend's. For others it has destroyed the lives of their wives and children as well. I am talking about something where this individual started ~50 years ago that impacts generations today. The excuse offered that the mistreatment in this thread stopped 25 years ago is so lame and so outside of the teachings of Christ.

Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free

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Reply #135 posted 07/24/21 5:40pm

IanRG

Strive said:

You are evil. You are doing Satan's work. I speak no lies. You continually must have the last word and bend everything to fit your thoughts so you "win". You also blocked me from orgnoting you so I am forced to say this publically.

Take care Ian, I'm blocking you.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:14pm]

.

You are never forced to vilely and falsely attack anyone. This is especially if you make this attack because your target seeks to defend the victims of evil acts of abuse. This applies to whether you choose to attack people privately or publicly. You are the only person I have ever blocked through the buddy lists here ever.

.

Fortunately I am not answerable to people that place their politics and desire to defend organisations over people, especially children that have been abused by these organisations in actions in support of bad political objectives and the attacking person's fear of other people's politics.

.

Ask yourself: How many people are lapsed Catholics because of people who are more concerned about protecting the organisation and reducing the financial impact of admitting to abuses in its name? How many people are lapsed Catholics because of people in their church that have actively stood up against acts of evil done by people and the processes used to cover this up?

.

You remind me of the people in my area that during the court case and Royal Commission I was involved with attacked the police, politicians, survivors and supporters through the media and by political means with some even stoning the chief investigator's family home and risking injuring his wife and children.

[Edited 7/24/21 18:14pm]

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Reply #136 posted 07/24/21 5:43pm

Strive

jjhunsecker said:

Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free

Agreed. We should have cast out all the homosexual members of the clergy immediately and never given them the chance for repentance since they are unable to fulfill their vow of celibacy due to their unnatural and disordered desires.

.

Very based take from you, jjhunsecker.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:43pm]

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Reply #137 posted 07/24/21 5:54pm

IanRG

Strive said:

jjhunsecker said:

"Let Jesus fuck you ! Your mother sucks cocks in hell !"

https://www.youtube.com/w...zr3jx5Kjo0

These are the people on your side. It's a big joke to them.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:26pm]

.

There are no sides.

.

There is only right and wrong.

.

It is wrong to seek to attack a person with the vile and false accusation of being evil and working for satan just because they stand up for the survivors of abuse against people obsessed about protecting the organisation that protected the perps and covered up their evil crimes to save the organisation's image and wealth.

.

I do not see this scene as a joke. It is far from funny. This is a scene where what is said is to attack those seeking to protect the child by making offensive attacks on her defender's faith.

.

PS this puts to bed the lie that it is me who prods for a response.

[Edited 7/24/21 18:22pm]

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Reply #138 posted 07/24/21 6:10pm

IanRG

Strive said:

jjhunsecker said:

Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free

Agreed. We should have cast out all the homosexual members of the clergy immediately and never given them the chance for repentance since they are unable to fulfill their vow of celibacy due to their unnatural and disordered desires.

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Very based take from you, jjhunsecker.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:43pm]

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It is a myth that paedophiles are all homosexuals. The abuse of children by clergy is about 50/50 boys and girls. Paedophilic abuse in general has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It is more about power and is a psychopathic trait. This is as silly as saying all hetrosexual men rape women.

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But I do agree that clergy (and teachers, trainers, youth organisers, health care professionals) who use their position in organisations to sexually abuse people under their control and care must be removed from service and answer for their crimes. Further that organisations and individuals in these organisations that, instead, seek to cover up and protect the financial position, pride etc. of the organisation rather than investigate and seek to make recompense and willing add processes to prevent this happening in the future, should also be cast out if they continue to do so.

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Which brings us neatly back to what should be the proper response of the Canadian Government and all the organisations involved with the residential schools and the systematic program of stripping language and cultural identity of children and, in the process, exposing some of them to physical, mental or sexual abuse.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:04pm]

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Reply #139 posted 07/24/21 6:41pm

jjhunsecker

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Strive said:



jjhunsecker said:


Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free




Agreed. We should have cast out all the homosexual members of the clergy immediately and never given them the chance for repentance since they are unable to fulfill their vow of celibacy due to their unnatural and disordered desires.


.


Very based take from you, jjhunsecker.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:43pm]



How can we agree when that’s not what I said? Do you always twist things to suit your personal agenda?

I have nothing against gay priests, or any consensual sexual behavior amongst adults. I DO have a problem with sick degenerate PEDOPHILES- of any sexual persuasion- who rape and molest CHILDREN.

Surely even YOU could tell the difference. Unless you lie so much you don’t even know what is true anymore
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Reply #140 posted 07/24/21 7:20pm

Strive

jjhunsecker said:

Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free

Strive said:

Agreed. We should have cast out all the homosexual members of the clergy immediately and never given them the chance for repentance since they are unable to fulfill their vow of celibacy due to their unnatural and disordered desires.

.

Very based take from you, jjhunsecker.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:43pm]

How can we agree when that’s not what I said? Do you always twist things to suit your personal agenda? I have nothing against gay priests, or any consensual sexual behavior amongst adults. I DO have a problem with sick degenerate PEDOPHILES- of any sexual persuasion- who rape and molest CHILDREN. Surely even YOU could tell the difference. Unless you lie so much you don’t even know what is true anymore

Oh so you want perverts and degenerates, your words not mine, to roam free within the church? Ok, I understand now. You believe it's better that we place children at risk than take actions that could be viewed as politically incorrect.

.

Well, I have to say I disagree with that line of logic, jjhunsecker. I don't believe we should be placing children around men that are unable to control their homosexual urges. Especially when there is a long history of homosexual clergy molesting boys.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:25pm]

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Reply #141 posted 07/24/21 7:46pm

IanRG

Strive said:

jjhunsecker said:

Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free

Strive said: How can we agree when that’s not what I said? Do you always twist things to suit your personal agenda? I have nothing against gay priests, or any consensual sexual behavior amongst adults. I DO have a problem with sick degenerate PEDOPHILES- of any sexual persuasion- who rape and molest CHILDREN. Surely even YOU could tell the difference. Unless you lie so much you don’t even know what is true anymore

Oh so you want perverts and degenerates, your words not mine, to roam free within the church? Ok, I understand now. You believe it's better that we place children at risk than take actions that could be viewed as politically incorrect.

.

Well, I have to say I disagree with that line of logic, jjhunsecker. I don't believe we should be placing children around men that are unable to control their homosexual urges. Especially when there is a long history of homosexual clergy molesting boys.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:25pm]

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There is an equally long history of heterosexual clergy molesting girls and women and even boys and men.

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There is an equally long history of people enabling the clergy and others in churches (and other organisations) to abuse people because they are more concerned about appearances and the cost of correcting for this evil.

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What jj said cannot be read as just ignore the abuse, whereas ALL you have said has been to justify the poor response in admitting to the evil, addressing it and preventing further evil - all based on the myth that the Catholic Church today does more to stop child sexual abuse than every other organisation and everyone else is just attacking your politics where you show no concern for the survivors of this evil.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:53pm]

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Reply #142 posted 07/24/21 7:54pm

PennyPurple

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Strive said:

Oh so you want perverts and degenerates, your words not mine, to roam free within the church? Ok, I understand now. You believe it's better that we place children at risk than take actions that could be viewed as politically incorrect.

.

Well, I have to say I disagree with that line of logic, jjhunsecker. I don't believe we should be placing children around men that are unable to control their homosexual urges. Especially when there is a long history of homosexual clergy molesting boys.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:25pm]

That's not what JJ said, and you know it.

Stop twisting it up.

U.S.A.
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Reply #143 posted 07/24/21 8:55pm

Strive

PennyPurple said:

That's not what JJ said, and you know it.

Stop twisting it up.

We need to speak uncomfortable truths. The Catholic Church had a problem with homosexual men molesting children. I won't discount the victims. No sugarcoating. Certainly no denying it is an ugly history that needs correction.

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Reply #144 posted 07/24/21 9:28pm

IanRG

Strive said:

PennyPurple said:

That's not what JJ said, and you know it.

Stop twisting it up.

We need to speak uncomfortable truths. The Catholic Church had a problem with homosexual men molesting children. I won't discount the victims. No sugarcoating. Certainly no denying it is an ugly history that needs correction.

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Then firstly address that it is paedophilic people whether they are homosexual or hetrosexual - you are ignoring the molested girls and women.

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Secondly ACTUALLY FACE the uncomforatble truths. There are people to this day that, like you, seek to justify the actions and inactions of the church to hide, deny, bury and excuse this for all the reasons you have used in this thread:

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You have argues:

1 There was no malice - There is malice,

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2 It is more important to protect the image of the Church than admit its failing or show a care for victims - You fail to protect the church each and every time YOU enable the abuse to continue,

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3 It is the communists seeking to seize power - No it is people and families who have suffered as direct result of the abuse,

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4 It would cost too much to compensate the victims - This is lame excuse,

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5 People that disagree with your defence of the Church when it is rightly criticised for its crimes have the devil in them - This is a lie to make you feel good and because you are self-confessed troll who has a lack of control when you seek to have fun being an asshole on-line,

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6 Anyone who criticises your often repeated opinion just wants the last word - But you keep on posting so you get the last word,

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7 Teaching facts about history that shows colonist invaders, white supremacists and the far-right in a bad light is people teaching CRT - It is not CRT, it is historical fact. Claiming this is CRT is just the latest in a long history of far-right cancel culture methods (like dismissing things as being politically correct).

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8 It is all the homosexuals - It is not because it is paedophiles who in their normal relationships are either Hetro or homosexual as demonstrated by the fact that the victims include girls and women.

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9 The inconveniences imposed on you to protect children are more than is required by every other organisation - This is a lie because all organisations responsible for the care and control of children have the same legal requirements and processes to protect children and to prevent people like you enabling ongoing abuse.

,

10 Nothing will ever be enough and we will always be seeking to fix the mess - YES, We will always and forever be responsible for human failings within and outside of thee Church. We will always be tasked with treating our neighbours as we would want to be treated ourselves, always tasked with with fighting for, and protecting all the people suffering as in the Beatitudes, always tasked with treating the poor and downtrodden how we would treat Jesus.

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And I am sure if I went back, there will be other arguments all aimed at making it look like the Church is the victim.

[Edited 7/24/21 23:29pm]

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Reply #145 posted 07/24/21 9:47pm

Strive

Historical fact, the Catholic Church moved around homosexual child molestors because they believed that they had the capability to repent for their sins. They tried to deal with the problem internally. Which lead to more children being molested. That is a horrible tragedy.
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I don't believe in sugarcoating the facts to protect your feelings. I won't deny victims' accounts or enable that type of abuse to continue.

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The Church needs to do better by throwing out these homosexual clergy and homosexual apologists that enabled them.

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I agree with all of you 100%. The Catholic Church still has a problem today. This is a problem that needs to be addressed asap. Homosexual predators have no place within the church.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 21:51pm]

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Reply #146 posted 07/24/21 10:10pm

IanRG

Strive said:

Historical fact, the Catholic Church moved around homosexual child molestors because they believed that they had the capability to repent for their sins. They trying to deal with the problem internally. Which lead to more children to be molested.
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I don't believe in sugarcoating the facts to protect your feelings. I won't deny victims' accounts or enable that type of abuse to continue.

.

The Church needs to do better by throwing out these homosexual clergy and homosexual apologists that enabled them.

.

I agree with all of you 100%. The Catholic Church still has a problem today. This is a problem that needs to be addressed asap. Homosexual predators have no place within the church.

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Historical fact, the Catholic Church moved around homosexual AND HETEROSEXUAL molesters of child and women because they believed that it was better to cover this up. They DID NOT try to deal with this purely internally because this was often done with the knowledge of the local police. In this it was no different to how sexual predators who were "trusted" teachers, coaches, health care professionals etc could also be treated at the time.

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I agree - This undoubtedly was the worst decision possible because it failed to address the issue and it enabled it to be worse.

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You are sugarcoating the facts to protect your feelings by seeking to ignore 2/3rds of the problem - where the molester is a paedophilic heterosexual and that the arguments you have been making here are to deflect from responsibility lest it cost too much or taint the image of the Church, nation, white colonisers etc.

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The Church needs to do better by preventing any clergy or volunteer that uses the church to commit abuse regardless of what sexual orientation they are. As someone who pretends to be a Christian, you should know what apologist means because you are using it incorrectly here. The church needs to address people like YOU that cannot see that everytime they use the arguments YOU have been using in this thread, YOU are enabling the abuse to continue by arguing against every correction for victims past, present and future.

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This is shown by the fact that you don't agree with anyone here 100% - You don't want the problem addressed because you argued that nothing will be good enough and it will always need to corrected for because the victims are just communists seeking to sieze power. You don't want the problem addressed because of the potential financial impact. You don't want 100% of the problem addressed because you want to limit the problem to just being homosexual predators, when the problem is ALL sexual predators and in how the church has not fully addressed its responsibility in covering this up to avoid the issue, thereby enabling it to expand.

[Edited 7/24/21 23:20pm]

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Reply #147 posted 07/24/21 11:27pm

jjhunsecker

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Strive said:

jjhunsecker said:

"Let Jesus fuck you ! Your mother sucks cocks in hell !"

https://www.youtube.com/w...zr3jx5Kjo0

These are the people on your side. It's a big joke to them.

[Edited 7/24/21 17:26pm]

You're absolutely correct...you ARE a big joke to me...with your phony piety masking a complete lack of compassion and empathy , along with your bigotry and anti-Semitism.

If I didn't laugh at frauds like you, I'd vomit instead

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Reply #148 posted 07/24/21 11:35pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

Strive said:

jjhunsecker said:

Sadly, there were people in the Church more concerned about their organization's reputation then they were on the human toll taken by allowing these perverts and degenerates to roam free

Strive said: How can we agree when that’s not what I said? Do you always twist things to suit your personal agenda? I have nothing against gay priests, or any consensual sexual behavior amongst adults. I DO have a problem with sick degenerate PEDOPHILES- of any sexual persuasion- who rape and molest CHILDREN. Surely even YOU could tell the difference. Unless you lie so much you don’t even know what is true anymore

Oh so you want perverts and degenerates, your words not mine, to roam free within the church? Ok, I understand now. You believe it's better that we place children at risk than take actions that could be viewed as politically incorrect.

.

Well, I have to say I disagree with that line of logic, jjhunsecker. I don't believe we should be placing children around men that are unable to control their homosexual urges. Especially when there is a long history of homosexual clergy molesting boys.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:25pm]

Did you even graduate from grammar school ? You seem to have an extremely limited ability to read and comprehend.

I very clearly indicated that the perverts and degenerates were those who harmed CHILDREN (who cannot consent to sexual behavior), not those who enter consensual sexual relations with other consenting adults, no matter what their orientation.



Perhaps YOU consider any and all gay people to be "perverts and degenerates", but I said no such thing.

[Edited 7/24/21 23:41pm]

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Reply #149 posted 07/24/21 11:37pm

jjhunsecker

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PennyPurple said:

Strive said:

Oh so you want perverts and degenerates, your words not mine, to roam free within the church? Ok, I understand now. You believe it's better that we place children at risk than take actions that could be viewed as politically incorrect.

.

Well, I have to say I disagree with that line of logic, jjhunsecker. I don't believe we should be placing children around men that are unable to control their homosexual urges. Especially when there is a long history of homosexual clergy molesting boys.

.

[Edited 7/24/21 19:25pm]

That's not what JJ said, and you know it.

Stop twisting it up.

He said he "enjoys being an asshole on the web"....and here's the proof !

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