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Thread started 07/03/21 8:22am

2elijah

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Latest First Nations discovery reveals 182 unmarked graves at Canada school

(Just to note, this was an earlier article, when it was posted, since then more bodies have been found according to various news sources)

https://www.google.com/am...anada.html



*****

Article from June 30, 2021

https://www.google.com/am...h-columbia



(Well this is a shame that this grave is found many years later. Not many people know about the history of those schools. I’ve heard about these schools that existed, which separated Indigenous children from their parents, forcing them to assimilate into Canadian society and many into foster homes. I wonder how many more graves are left undiscovered? So much untold history.)

Latest First Nations discovery reveals 182 unmarked graves at Canada school

“Lower Kootenay Band finds human remains at former residential school in British Columbia – the third such discovery in weeks”


Leyland Cecco in Toronto
Wed 30 Jun 2021 17.18 EDT

A First Nations community in western Canada has discovered the remains of nearly 200 people on the grounds of a former residential school, adding to the growing tally of unmarked graves across the country.

The Lower Kootenay Band said on Wednesday that ground-penetrating radar had revealed 182 human remains at St Eugene’s Mission residential school, near the city of Cranbrook, British Columbia. Some of the remains were buried in shallow graves only three and four feet deep.

“It is believed that the remains of these 182 souls are from the member Bands of the Ktunaxa Nation, neighbouring First Nations communities and the community of ?Aq’am,” the Lower Kootenay band said in a statement.

Canada must reveal ‘undiscovered truths’ of residential schools to heal

From the 19th century until the 1990s, more than 150,000 Indigenous children were forced to attend state-funded schools in a campaign to forcibly assimilate them into Canadian society. Abuse was rife at the schools where thousands of children died of disease, neglect and other causes.”

The discovery at St Eugene’s adds to the growing list of unmarked graves. Last week, the Cowessess First Nation in Saskatchewan announced the discovery of 751 possible unmarked graves. Last month, the Tk’emlúps te Secwe̓pemc announced they had found 215 unmarked graves, most of which are believed to be children.

Many survivors of the school say that their trauma was compounded by Canada’s failure to face up to what they have known for years: that countless friends and relatives died at the institutions which were supposed to be caring for them.“


(Click on link to continue reading article)
[Edited 7/23/21 8:15am]
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Reply #1 posted 07/03/21 11:11am

Empress

It's beyond sad and disgraceful. As a Canadian, I'm feeling so many emotions about this, including anger and shame. I've been attending Truth and Reconciliation training, so I have a little more understanding about this now. We were not taught anything much about our indigenous peoples when I was going to school. The world needs to know about this and my government needs to admit these atrocities and do what they can to help heal the pain. Also, I blame the Catholic Church every bit as much as the government. The Catholic Church is to blame for so much pain and suffering. I don't understand how anyone can support the church after all the harm they've caused worldwide and the decades, if not centuries, of sex abuse. The Pope needs to offer a formal apology and retribution. I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in hell, but they do and I hope the nuns and priests that participated in this all rot in hell.
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Reply #2 posted 07/03/21 11:42am

2elijah

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Empress said:

It's beyond sad and disgraceful. As a Canadian, I'm feeling so many emotions about this, including anger and shame. I've been attending Truth and Reconciliation training, so I have a little more understanding about this now. We were not taught anything much about our indigenous peoples when I was going to school. The world needs to know about this and my government needs to admit these atrocities and do what they can to help heal the pain. Also, I blame the Catholic Church every bit as much as the government. The Catholic Church is to blame for so much pain and suffering. I don't understand how anyone can support the church after all the harm they've caused worldwide and the decades, if not centuries, of sex abuse. The Pope needs to offer a formal apology and retribution. I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in hell, but they do and I hope the nuns and priests that participated in this all rot in hell.

It’s very sad. I mean I’ve heard a few stories about how First Nations children were forced from parents, and sent to schools to unlearn their cultures/language, and many were abused if caught speaking in their language. Also remember watching a First Nations series, and the characters kept mentioning living in Foster homes away from their families, and it caught my interest to do some research on it, but now, after finding out about many unmarked graves of many First Nation people discovered, I’m going to do some research about it, and even see if there are documentaries about it. So important to know the truths about atrocities that happened around the world that affected so many. I hope they respect those burial sites, and consider them sacred in respect to their ancestors/descendants.

So much to learn about many atrocities that happened around the world, especially when something like this is discovered years later.
[Edited 7/3/21 11:46am]
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Reply #3 posted 07/03/21 12:56pm

Strive

I suggest those that grieve at this sort of thing actually learn First Nations history (A Concise History of Canada's First Nations by Olive Patricia Dickason is a good place to start) and try to remember the times that those events took place.

The people that were trying to help the remaining First Nations people thought they were on the right side of history by integrating them, making them fellow Canadians. Alot of disease ran rampant in group areas in the late 1880s and early 1900s. There's no proof that these children died of abuse or neglect.

But the people pushing these stories are pushing them in the hopes of making people ashamed of their nation and to consolidate power for themselves. They don't want justice. They want to make you slaves. They try to use your heart against you and make the world a much darker place. People take for granted what was built for them and have no idea what the world was like before that. (Which is why everybody should read the book above)

[Edited 7/3/21 13:02pm]

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Reply #4 posted 07/03/21 4:38pm

IanRG

Just as with slavery, the impacts of invasion, colonisation and forced assimilation are ongoing in so many countries.

.

The anger, guilt and shame felt by the Canadian people is known in Australia as our Indelible Stain.

.

It is important that these events be given a voice.

.

The excuse that this was meant to be for the children's benefit does not excuse the forced separation.

.

It does not excuse the progressive increases in the isolation of the children from their families (One report said the children were allowed to regularly visit and eat with their family until 1933 when this was limited to only on special occasions).

.

It does not excuse the deliberate destruction of culture by removal of language

.

One report on the grave area with more than 700 people said that there were grave stones but these were removed in the 1960s as a result of an argument between a local Chief and a Priest - and that this is likely a crime under Canadian law. This site was known to the Indigenous locals as a community grave yard, not just a school grave yard.

.

Forced removal of children was not uncommon in the past. In Australia we had the "Stolen Generations" where children with mixed race parents were removed from the Indigenous communities to be "assimilated". In this mixed parentage was treated the same as having a parent who was mentally or phyically handicapped, or being considered a criminal, a drunk, a bankrupt or being a single parent. Government programs to do "good" by putting people in orphanages often did more harm. The 2002 movie "Rabbit Proof Fence" is about three girls who escaped such an orphanage to walk for 9 weeks and 2400 km to get back to their mother.

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Reply #5 posted 07/03/21 6:06pm

2elijah

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Among diseases many died from, while at those schools, there was also physical/sexual abuse and neglect. From some research I’m doing, one source mentioned these schools existed for about 133 years, 1863-1996.

Excerpt from an article. Click link to continue reading.

https://www.theguardian.c...s-children


Generations of First Nations children were abducted to institutions to solve the country’s ‘Indian problem’. Thousands never returned
by Justin Ling in Montreal
June 5, 2021



“…………The news from Kamloops has had Saganash thinking about those friends he lost in the 10 years he spent at La Tuque Indian residential school in Quebec.

“Those who disappeared or never made it home, those I knew were abused physically, sexually, spiritually,” Saganash wrote in an email. “Their eyes and look flashed in my memory, the things they said to me without uttering a word. The cries for help without tears. Those memories will stay with me all my life.”

Between 1867 and 1996, the Canadian state abducted more than 150,000 Indigenous children from their parents and forced them into these schools as part of a campaign of forced assimilation. Thousands were subject to physical, emotional and sexual abuse.

According to the official register, 3,213 died. The real number is certainly much higher.

For decades, the mortality rate for Indigenous children in these schools ranged between twice as high and five times higher than non-Indigenous schoolchildren. Suicide, neglect and disease all contributed to the devastating loss of life.”
[Edited 7/3/21 18:21pm]
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Reply #6 posted 07/03/21 6:18pm

2elijah

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IanRG said:

Just as with slavery, the impacts of invasion, colonisation and forced assimilation are ongoing in so many countries.


.


The anger, guilt and shame felt by the Canadian people is known in Australia as our Indelible Stain.


.


It is important that these events be given a voice.


.


The excuse that this was meant to be for the children's benefit does not excuse the forced separation.


.


It does not excuse the progressive increases in the isolation of the children from their families (One report said the children were allowed to regularly visit and eat with their family until 1933 when this was limited to only on special occasions).


.


It does not excuse the deliberate destruction of culture by removal of language


.


One report on the grave area with more than 700 people said that there were grave stones but these were removed in the 1960s as a result of an argument between a local Chief and a Priest - and that this is likely a crime under Canadian law. This site was known to the Indigenous locals as a community grave yard, not just a school grave yard.


.


Forced removal of children was not uncommon in the past. In Australia we had the "Stolen Generations" where children with mixed race parents were removed from the Indigenous communities to be "assimilated". In this mixed parentage was treated the same as having a parent who was mentally or phyically handicapped, or being considered a criminal, a drunk, a bankrupt or being a single parent. Government programs to do "good" by putting people in orphanages often did more harm. The 2002 movie "Rabbit Proof Fence" is about three girls who escaped such an orphanage to walk for 9 weeks and 2400 km to get back to their mother.


I saw that movie ‘Rabbit Proof Fence’ which actually was the first time I heard of the slavery and removal of Indigenous children from their homes and forced to assimilate. It was a heart wrenching movie. Watched several Australian movies over the years and to be honest, a number of them that I watched, I was surprised the Indigenous referred to themselves as ‘Black people’. Something I was not aware of. Don’t know if this is how many of them self-identify in Australia today.

Better to know the hard truths about any country’s history, rather than sugarcoating what actually happened, to the many who endured the pain, abuse and including those who lost their lives, because of it.
[Edited 7/3/21 19:23pm]
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Reply #7 posted 07/03/21 7:15pm

IanRG

2elijah said:

IanRG said:

Just as with slavery, the impacts of invasion, colonisation and forced assimilation are ongoing in so many countries.

.

The anger, guilt and shame felt by the Canadian people is known in Australia as our Indelible Stain.

.

It is important that these events be given a voice.

.

The excuse that this was meant to be for the children's benefit does not excuse the forced separation.

.

It does not excuse the progressive increases in the isolation of the children from their families (One report said the children were allowed to regularly visit and eat with their family until 1933 when this was limited to only on special occasions).

.

It does not excuse the deliberate destruction of culture by removal of language

.

One report on the grave area with more than 700 people said that there were grave stones but these were removed in the 1960s as a result of an argument between a local Chief and a Priest - and that this is likely a crime under Canadian law. This site was known to the Indigenous locals as a community grave yard, not just a school grave yard.

.

Forced removal of children was not uncommon in the past. In Australia we had the "Stolen Generations" where children with mixed race parents were removed from the Indigenous communities to be "assimilated". In this mixed parentage was treated the same as having a parent who was mentally or phyically handicapped, or being considered a criminal, a drunk, a bankrupt or being a single parent. Government programs to do "good" by putting people in orphanages often did more harm. The 2002 movie "Rabbit Proof Fence" is about three girls who escaped such an orphanage to walk for 9 weeks and 2400 km to get back to their mother.

I saw that movie ‘Rabbit Proof’ which actually was the first time I heard of the slavery and removal of Indigenous children from their homes and forced to assimilate. It was a heart wrenching movie. Watched several Australian movies over the years and to be honest, a number of them that I watched, I was surprised the Indigenous referred to themselves as ‘Black people’. Something I was not aware of. Don’t know if this is how many of them self-identify in Australia today. Better to know the hard truths about any country’s history, rather than sugarcoating what actually happened, to the many who endured the pain, abuse and including those who lost their lives, because of it. [Edited 7/3/21 18:52pm]

.

They identify as Black People, First Nations people and by their Nation's name eg I live in Awabakal Nation and near Worrimi Nation. Obviously not as the same people as those more directly from Africa but BLM was very active here as a result of deaths in custody - caused by inequities in our criminal justice system making them the most incarcerated people on earth. The crimes are mostly things that would only get a warning or a bond if done by others.

.

In regard to Rabbit Proof Fence: Phillip Noyce had broken into the US film industry as a director, producer and writer - He returned to Australia specifically to make this film when he was in line to make a major US film (I forget which) and considers this his greatest work.

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Reply #8 posted 07/03/21 7:19pm

2elijah

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IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:

Just as with slavery, the impacts of invasion, colonisation and forced assimilation are ongoing in so many countries.


.


The anger, guilt and shame felt by the Canadian people is known in Australia as our Indelible Stain.


.


It is important that these events be given a voice.


.


The excuse that this was meant to be for the children's benefit does not excuse the forced separation.


.


It does not excuse the progressive increases in the isolation of the children from their families (One report said the children were allowed to regularly visit and eat with their family until 1933 when this was limited to only on special occasions).


.


It does not excuse the deliberate destruction of culture by removal of language


.


One report on the grave area with more than 700 people said that there were grave stones but these were removed in the 1960s as a result of an argument between a local Chief and a Priest - and that this is likely a crime under Canadian law. This site was known to the Indigenous locals as a community grave yard, not just a school grave yard.


.


Forced removal of children was not uncommon in the past. In Australia we had the "Stolen Generations" where children with mixed race parents were removed from the Indigenous communities to be "assimilated". In this mixed parentage was treated the same as having a parent who was mentally or phyically handicapped, or being considered a criminal, a drunk, a bankrupt or being a single parent. Government programs to do "good" by putting people in orphanages often did more harm. The 2002 movie "Rabbit Proof Fence" is about three girls who escaped such an orphanage to walk for 9 weeks and 2400 km to get back to their mother.



I saw that movie ‘Rabbit Proof’ which actually was the first time I heard of the slavery and removal of Indigenous children from their homes and forced to assimilate. It was a heart wrenching movie. Watched several Australian movies over the years and to be honest, a number of them that I watched, I was surprised the Indigenous referred to themselves as ‘Black people’. Something I was not aware of. Don’t know if this is how many of them self-identify in Australia today. Better to know the hard truths about any country’s history, rather than sugarcoating what actually happened, to the many who endured the pain, abuse and including those who lost their lives, because of it. [Edited 7/3/21 18:52pm]

.


They identify as Black People, First Nations people and by their Nation's name eg I live in Awabakal Nation and near Worrimi Nation. Obviously not as the same people as those more directly from Africa but BLM was very active here as a result of deaths in custody - caused by inequities in our criminal justice system making them the most incarcerated people on earth. The crimes are mostly things that would only get a warning or a bond if done by others.


.


In regard to Rabbit Proof Fence: Phillip Noyce had broken into the US film industry as a director, producer and writer - He returned to Australia specifically to make this film when he was in line to make a major US film (I forget which) and considers this his greatest work.


Thanks for that info IanRG, appreciate it. Yes, I saw that movie twice and recommend it to anyone interested.
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Reply #9 posted 07/03/21 7:21pm

2elijah

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Just to add, I also don’t believe exposing the ugly and uncomfortable truths about wrongs of the past, of any country, is to make people hate their country. If anything, exposing and acknowledging those wrongs, should be a lesson to learn to be better human beings in the present, than those in the past. Sugarcoating/downplaying what actually took place, only shows a blatant disrespect towards those who suffered throughout it.
[Edited 7/3/21 19:22pm]
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Reply #10 posted 07/03/21 8:23pm

luv4u

Moderator

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Interior Department will investigate Indigenous boarding schools and identify burial sites


Updated 5:46 PM ET, Tue June 22, 2021

210622145619-01-deb-haaland-0423-exlarge-169.jpg

Secretary of Interior Deb Haaland announced the Federal Indian Boarding School Initiative on Tuesday.

(CNN)The Department of Interior is launching an initiative to investigate the Native American boarding schools that forced assimilation in the 19th and 20th centuries.

"At no time in history have the records or documentation of this policy been compiled or analyzed to determine the full scope of its reaches and effects. We must uncover the truth about the loss of human life, and the lasting consequences of the schools," Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said Tuesday.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/politics/deb-haaland-indigenous-boarding-schools/index.html

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Reply #11 posted 07/03/21 9:45pm

uPtoWnNY

2elijah said:

Just to add, I also don’t believe exposing the ugly and uncomfortable truths about wrongs of the past, of any country, is to make people hate their country. If anything, exposing and acknowledging those wrongs, should be a lesson to learn to be better human beings in the present, than those in the past. Sugarcoating/downplaying what actually took place, only shows a blatant disrespect towards those who suffered throughout it. [Edited 7/3/21 19:22pm]

nod

Every nation has a shameful past. Nothing wrong with telling the truth about it. Those who look at that as divisive just want to hold on to their lies.

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Reply #12 posted 07/04/21 6:41am

2elijah

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Strive said:

I suggest those that grieve at this sort of thing actually learn First Nations history (A Concise History of Canada's First Nations by Olive Patricia Dickason is a good place to start) and try to remember the times that those events took place.



The people that were trying to help the remaining First Nations people thought they were on the right side of history by integrating them, making them fellow Canadians. Alot of disease ran rampant in group areas in the late 1880s and early 1900s. There's no proof that these children died of abuse or neglect.



But the people pushing these stories are pushing them in the hopes of making people ashamed of their nation and to consolidate power for themselves. They don't want justice. They want to make you slaves. They try to use your heart against you and make the world a much darker place. People take for granted what was built for them and have no idea what the world was like before that. (Which is why everybody should read the book above)

[Edited 7/3/21 13:02pm]


When you pull children from their families, prohibit and punish/ban them for embracing their culture/language/history of their people, and forcing them to accept another culture that’s not theirs, is not helping them. It’s intentionally teaching them that their culture/language/history of their people is inferior. It’s forcing them to accept a culture thats not theirs, and making them slaves to someone else’s culture

To hide/sugarcoat the truths of what took place in the past, is to disrespect the culture/history/existence of the victims’ ancestors and their descendants. Not to mention, that there are still survivors of those schools who are alive today. As human beings we can at least acknowledge the wrongs that took place, and not hide the details of the truths of the abuses that happened, by being open to hearing many of the survivors’ stories as evidence, including any documented evidence that exists. What would it actually serve anyone to lie or hide those truths, other than for the sake of one’s selfish, biased and callous ego to be silent about it?
[Edited 7/4/21 6:50am]
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Reply #13 posted 07/04/21 8:48am

Strive

2elijah said:

Just to add, I also don’t believe exposing the ugly and uncomfortable truths about wrongs of the past, of any country, is to make people hate their country. If anything, exposing and acknowledging those wrongs, should be a lesson to learn to be better human beings in the present, than those in the past. Sugarcoating/downplaying what actually took place, only shows a blatant disrespect towards those who suffered throughout it.


From this very thread.

Empress said:

It's beyond sad and disgraceful. As a Canadian, I'm feeling so many emotions about this, including anger and shame.

IanRG said:

The anger, guilt and shame felt by the Canadian people is known in Australia as our Indelible Stain.

And it's not shocking that this "discovery" was found so close to Canada Day with full media leverage to circulate it. And that it was quickly followed by people calling for the cancellation of that holiday.

I know you believe what you believe so nothing I say can open your eyes about this but there's evil afoot. When priests are getting arrested for breaking covid rules with 20 cop cars showing up as a show of force while people tear down statues without a single cop in site, yeah, the agenda becomes clear in Canada.

The state gets all the power but the state doesn't work for its citizens. It works for a global agenda. Point it out and they'll try to silence you. Call you names. Attempt to make you feel ashamed for your country and make you feel like your kind is the source of world's evil.

That's why I mentioned that First Nations book. Their history was dark and brutal. It's just various warring tribes killing each other until European traders showed up. Then it became a hell on Earth as First Nations supplied the fur trade. Then it was them slaughtering Catholic missionaries trying to spread the good news. Then it was them on the receiving end with disease and war.

But nobody wants to talk about that part of the history. Or be grateful for the society that was built up out of the wilderness. No, everything was gumdrops and sunshine before the white man showed up. And the (white) people in the present should feel neverending anger and shame at their original sin (of being white), that is how they can learn to be better human beings. By being rightfully submissive. Begging for forgiveness for all eternity.

[Edited 7/4/21 8:58am]

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Reply #14 posted 07/04/21 9:42am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

Just to add, I also don’t believe exposing the ugly and uncomfortable truths about wrongs of the past, of any country, is to make people hate their country. If anything, exposing and acknowledging those wrongs, should be a lesson to learn to be better human beings in the present, than those in the past. Sugarcoating/downplaying what actually took place, only shows a blatant disrespect towards those who suffered throughout it. [Edited 7/3/21 19:22pm]

To quote Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men"- these people "can't handle the TRUTH !" They prefer to live in their fairy tale bubble ....it's comfortable for them there

#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #15 posted 07/04/21 9:43am

jjhunsecker

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uPtoWnNY said:

2elijah said:

Just to add, I also don’t believe exposing the ugly and uncomfortable truths about wrongs of the past, of any country, is to make people hate their country. If anything, exposing and acknowledging those wrongs, should be a lesson to learn to be better human beings in the present, than those in the past. Sugarcoating/downplaying what actually took place, only shows a blatant disrespect towards those who suffered throughout it. [Edited 7/3/21 19:22pm]

nod

Every nation has a shameful past. Nothing wrong with telling the truth about it. Those who look at that as divisive just want to hold on to their lies.

They get a lot of comfort from those lies....

#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #16 posted 07/04/21 10:13am

2elijah

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Strive said:



2elijah said:


Just to add, I also don’t believe exposing the ugly and uncomfortable truths about wrongs of the past, of any country, is to make people hate their country. If anything, exposing and acknowledging those wrongs, should be a lesson to learn to be better human beings in the present, than those in the past. Sugarcoating/downplaying what actually took place, only shows a blatant disrespect towards those who suffered throughout it.


From this very thread.




Empress said:


It's beyond sad and disgraceful. As a Canadian, I'm feeling so many emotions about this, including anger and shame.





IanRG said:


The anger, guilt and shame felt by the Canadian people is known in Australia as our Indelible Stain.




And it's not shocking that this "discovery" was found so close to Canada Day with full media leverage to circulate it. And that it was quickly followed by people calling for the cancellation of that holiday.



I know you believe what you believe so nothing I say can open your eyes about this but there's evil afoot. When priests are getting arrested for breaking covid rules with 20 cop cars showing up as a show of force while people tear down statues without a single cop in site, yeah, the agenda becomes clear in Canada.



The state gets all the power but the state doesn't work for its citizens. It works for a global agenda. Point it out and they'll try to silence you. Call you names. Attempt to make you feel ashamed for your country and make you feel like your kind is the source of world's evil.



That's why I mentioned that First Nations book. Their history was dark and brutal. It's just various warring tribes killing each other until European traders showed up. Then it became a hell on Earth as First Nations supplied the fur trade. Then it was them slaughtering Catholic missionaries trying to spread the good news. Then it was them on the receiving end with disease and war.



But nobody wants to talk about that part of the history. Or be grateful for the society that was built up out of the wilderness. No, everything was gumdrops and sunshine before the white man showed up. And the (white) people in the present should feel neverending anger and shame at their original sin (of being white), that is how they can learn to be better human beings. By being rightfully submissive. Begging for forgiveness for all eternity.

[Edited 7/4/21 8:58am]


@bolded part. That’s not true. It sounds like you’re taking a personal stance, that the response about the findings of theses graves, are attacking a certain group of people. Let’s be real, it is common knowledge that just about ‘every’ group, whether racial, ethnic or for religious reasons, have fought/ committed crimes against each other. It doesn’t make it right when foreigners come in and claim ‘they saved specific groups from themselves’ by sugarcoating/dismissing that the brutal acts of abuse, they themselves committed, against those they claim they saved, justifies their acts of crime.

Let’s not do that by downplaying those past wrongs. If those actions were acknowledged and wrongs corrected, during that time period, instead of shoving it under the rugs of history, and ignoring the fact, that a lot of that biased mentality still exists today, against today’s descendants who are still alive and were victims of those schools’ abuses, then maybe people would be having a different discussion about that past today

Why can’t they (living victims) have a voice in exposing what happened? It’s like victims of sexual abuse, who years later exposes what happened to them, and others asking why talk about it now, when it happened long ago? It’s about the trauma the victims experienced at the hands of their abusers, where many walked away without paying the price for their crimes, and so those victims and their families traumatized by it, have a right to find peace within themselves by exposing the truths of such crimes.


About the second part of your post where you claim people should be grateful for things being built out of the wilderness? At what cost? Abuse, theft, slavery? Who said life was better for the Indigenous because outsiders moved themselves in? Who is it to say they weren’t doing just fine until outsiders moved in on them? And what’s the bs about White people being an original sin, because of being White?
I’m sure you’re a lot smarter than that.


You’re making this personal. I could be angry at Africa for engaging in the slave trade with Europeans, Arabs, etc., What good would that do me? Keep in mind Africa is not excused in the past or present for any crimes committed now or then.

All over the world, there are ethnic/religious wars happening between various groups living in the same countries, and abuses being committed against their own people. With that being said, just because anyone discusses crimes early Europeans committed against the Indigenous, they don’t get a pass, because no other racial group gets one either.

Like I said, it’s about learning and acknowledging the wrongs of the past and present even if it means hearing the horrible, ugly and uncomfortable truths of crimes committed, by members of groups we all identify with. It’s the only way to learn to be better human beings, and admitting when a wrong is a wrong.
[Edited 7/4/21 10:40am]
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Reply #17 posted 07/04/21 11:08am

Strive

2elijah said:

@bolded part. That’s not true. It sounds like you’re taking a personal stance, that the response about the findings of theses graves, are attacking a certain group of people. Let’s be real, it is common knowledge that just about ‘every’ group, whether racial, ethnic or for religious reasons, have fought/ committed crimes against each other. It doesn’t make it right when foreigners come in and claim ‘they saved specific groups from themselves’ by sugarcoating/dismissing that the brutal acts of abuse, they themselves committed, against those they claim they saved, justifies their acts of crime. Let’s not do that by downplaying those past wrongs. If those actions were acknowledged and wrongs corrected, during that time period, instead of shoving it under the rugs of history, and ignoring the fact, that a lot of that biased mentality still exists today, against today’s descendants who are still alive and were victims of those schools’ abuses, then maybe people would be having a different discussion about that past today Why can’t they (living victims) have a voice in exposing what happened? It’s like victims of sexual abuse, who years later exposes what happened to them, and others asking why talk about it now, when it happened long ago? It’s about the trauma the victims experienced at the hands of their abusers, where many walked away without paying the price for their crimes, and so those victims and their families traumatized by it, have a right to find peace within themselves by exposing the truths of such crimes. About the second part of your post where you claim people should be grateful for things being built out of the wilderness? At what cost? Abuse, theft, slavery? Who said life was better for the Indigenous because outsiders moved themselves in? Who is it to say they weren’t doing just fine until outsiders moved in on them? And what’s the bs about White people being an original sin, because of being White? I’m sure you’re a lot smarter than that. You’re making this personal. I could be angry at Africa for engaging in the slave trade with Europeans, Arabs, etc., Keep in mind Africa is not excused in the past or present fir any crimes committed now or then. All over the world, there are ethnic/religious wars happening between various groups living in the same countries, and abuses being committed against their own people. With that being said, just because anyone discusses crimes early Europeans committed against the Indigenous, they don’t get a pass, because no other racial group gets one either. Like I said, it’s about learning and acknowledging the wrongs of the past, even if it means hearing the ugly and uncomfortable truths of crimes committed, by members of groups we all identify with. It’s the only way to learn to be better human beings, and admitting when a wrong is a wrong. [Edited 7/4/21 10:35am]

I can only go off of what I see and I see a mass deception going on.

.

In theory, what you are saying is true. If we could all learn from the past and grow to be better people, that would be great. Let us not make the same mistake of trying to put one culture over another and realize that we can be brothers in the same nation with our differences. Cool.
.
(I mean sure, there's an argument to be made that Candians would also be viewed as the bad guys if they just left First Nations people to rot in their own reservations like Americans did but we'll ignore that for now. Let's just agree that when it comes to the past, it's shades of grey. People try to do what they think is best within that time frame)
.
In reality, some people honestly believe that only white western civilzation has done wrong and that there's no learning from it except to tear down the system and marginalize the descendants of those that committed the evil.

.

Like you claim there was no agenda with the release of this information. Then I look at people calling for the cancelation of Canada Day and the Communist Party Of Canada bragging on Twitter about how they tore down statues of Queen Elizabeth and Captain Cook, defaced the Canada flag, put up their own flag and chanted "no pride in genocide".

.

It couldn't be more clear to see.

.

Add in the burning of Catholic Churches in Canada. Priests and pastors getting arrested for trying to hold services of worship against Covid rules while widespread lawlessness in various Canadian cities is ignored. This is just the continuation of the consolidation of power for the people that don't care about (or despise) their country and the systematic shaming of its citizens so they feel like they can't speak out against it.

.

I guess it's fair to say I'm taking it personal because I can see what's coming down the pike and apparently very few people can see what's taking place.

.

edit: Here's a statement from ʔaq ̓ am tribe https://www.steugene.ca/e...ed-graves/

"Last year while conducting some remedial work around the ʔaq̓ am Cemetery, an unfortunate incident occurred whereby an unknown and unmarked grave was found. In order to ensure no other graves were disturbed, ʔaq̓ am Leadership, in consultation with Elders and Knowledge Keepers, made the decision to employ a ground-penetrating radar system to identify additional unmarked graves.
[...]

ʔaq̓ am Leadership would like to stress that although these findings are tragic, they are still undergoing analysis and the history of this area is a complex one. The cemetery was established around 1865 for settlers to the region. In 1874, the St. Eugene Hospital was built near the St. Mary River and many of the graves in the ʔaq̓ am cemetery are those who passed away in the hospital from within the Cranbrook region during this timeframe. The hospital burned down in 1899 and was rebuilt in Cranbrook. The community of ʔaq̓ am did not start to bury their ancestors in the cemetery until the late 1800’s.

The St. Eugene Residential School, adjacent to the cemetery site, was in operation from 1912 to 1970 and was attended by hundreds of Ktunaxa children as well as children from neighboring nations and communities.

Graves were traditionally marked with wooden crosses and this practice continues to this day in many Indigenous communities across Canada. Wooden crosses can deteriorate over time due to erosion or fire which can result in an unmarked grave.

These factors, among others, make it extremely difficult to establish whether or not these unmarked graves contain the remains of children who attended the St. Eugene Residential School."
.
Well I guess the media didn't think it was important to report any of this. I wonder why. Surely it was an innocent reason.

.

[Edited 7/4/21 11:59am]

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Reply #18 posted 07/04/21 1:19pm

2elijah

avatar

Strive said:



2elijah said:


@bolded part. That’s not true. It sounds like you’re taking a personal stance, that the response about the findings of theses graves, are attacking a certain group of people. Let’s be real, it is common knowledge that just about ‘every’ group, whether racial, ethnic or for religious reasons, have fought/ committed crimes against each other. It doesn’t make it right when foreigners come in and claim ‘they saved specific groups from themselves’ by sugarcoating/dismissing that the brutal acts of abuse, they themselves committed, against those they claim they saved, justifies their acts of crime. Let’s not do that by downplaying those past wrongs. If those actions were acknowledged and wrongs corrected, during that time period, instead of shoving it under the rugs of history, and ignoring the fact, that a lot of that biased mentality still exists today, against today’s descendants who are still alive and were victims of those schools’ abuses, then maybe people would be having a different discussion about that past today Why can’t they (living victims) have a voice in exposing what happened? It’s like victims of sexual abuse, who years later exposes what happened to them, and others asking why talk about it now, when it happened long ago? It’s about the trauma the victims experienced at the hands of their abusers, where many walked away without paying the price for their crimes, and so those victims and their families traumatized by it, have a right to find peace within themselves by exposing the truths of such crimes. About the second part of your post where you claim people should be grateful for things being built out of the wilderness? At what cost? Abuse, theft, slavery? Who said life was better for the Indigenous because outsiders moved themselves in? Who is it to say they weren’t doing just fine until outsiders moved in on them? And what’s the bs about White people being an original sin, because of being White? I’m sure you’re a lot smarter than that. You’re making this personal. I could be angry at Africa for engaging in the slave trade with Europeans, Arabs, etc., Keep in mind Africa is not excused in the past or present fir any crimes committed now or then. All over the world, there are ethnic/religious wars happening between various groups living in the same countries, and abuses being committed against their own people. With that being said, just because anyone discusses crimes early Europeans committed against the Indigenous, they don’t get a pass, because no other racial group gets one either. Like I said, it’s about learning and acknowledging the wrongs of the past, even if it means hearing the ugly and uncomfortable truths of crimes committed, by members of groups we all identify with. It’s the only way to learn to be better human beings, and admitting when a wrong is a wrong. [Edited 7/4/21 10:35am]


I can only go off of what I see and I see a mass deception going on.


.


In theory, what you are saying is true. If we could all learn from the past and grow to be better people, that would be great. Let us not make the same mistake of trying to put one culture over another and realize that we can be brothers in the same nation with our differences. Cool.
.
(I mean sure, there's an argument to be made that Candians would also be viewed as the bad guys if they just left First Nations people to rot in their own reservations like Americans did but we'll ignore that for now. Let's just agree that when it comes to the past, it's shades of grey. People try to do what they think is best within that time frame)
.
In reality, some people honestly believe that only white western civilzation has done wrong and that there's no learning from it except to tear down the system and marginalize the descendants of those that committed the evil.


.


Like you claim there was no agenda with the release of this information. Then I look at people calling for the cancelation of Canada Day and the Communist Party Of Canada bragging on Twitter about how they tore down statues of Queen Elizabeth and Captain Cook, defaced the Canada flag, put up their own flag and chanted "no pride in genocide".


.


It couldn't be more clear to see.


.


Add in the burning of Catholic Churches in Canada. Priests and pastors getting arrested for trying to hold services of worship against Covid rules while widespread lawlessness in various Canadian cities is ignored. This is just the continuation of the consolidation of power for the people that don't care about (or despise) their country and the systematic shaming of its citizens so they feel like they can't speak out against it.


.


I guess it's fair to say I'm taking it personal because I can see what's coming down the pike and apparently very few people can see what's taking place.


.


edit: Here's a statement from ʔaq ̓ am tribe https://www.steugene.ca/e...ed-graves/



"Last year while conducting some remedial work around the ʔaq̓ am Cemetery, an unfortunate incident occurred whereby an unknown and unmarked grave was found. In order to ensure no other graves were disturbed, ʔaq̓ am Leadership, in consultation with Elders and Knowledge Keepers, made the decision to employ a ground-penetrating radar system to identify additional unmarked graves.
[...]


ʔaq̓ am Leadership would like to stress that although these findings are tragic, they are still undergoing analysis and the history of this area is a complex one. The cemetery was established around 1865 for settlers to the region. In 1874, the St. Eugene Hospital was built near the St. Mary River and many of the graves in the ʔaq̓ am cemetery are those who passed away in the hospital from within the Cranbrook region during this timeframe. The hospital burned down in 1899 and was rebuilt in Cranbrook. The community of ʔaq̓ am did not start to bury their ancestors in the cemetery until the late 1800’s.


The St. Eugene Residential School, adjacent to the cemetery site, was in operation from 1912 to 1970 and was attended by hundreds of Ktunaxa children as well as children from neighboring nations and communities.


Graves were traditionally marked with wooden crosses and this practice continues to this day in many Indigenous communities across Canada. Wooden crosses can deteriorate over time due to erosion or fire which can result in an unmarked grave.


These factors, among others, make it extremely difficult to establish whether or not these unmarked graves contain the remains of children who attended the St. Eugene Residential School."
.
Well I guess the media didn't think it was important to report any of this. I wonder why. Surely it was an innocent reason.


.

[Edited 7/4/21 11:59am]




I still think you’re taking it too personal. Why is it not ok to discuss atrocities committed by Europeans to other groups, but ok for others to point out what Indigenous groups did to each other? It almost sounds like the latter is just a way to deflect from the ugly truths of what happened.

The problem is when biases of the past, play into the present, it means there wasn’t enough intention to correct it or denounce the continued biases towards specific groups. I just don’t agree that forcing another group to adopt another’s culture, by the use of abusive measures like punishment for speaking their original language/embracing their customs/history, is saving them, when the victims are being punished for embracing their own customs/languages. The punishment sets them up for self-hatred, insecurities, anger towards their abusers, long-term trauma.

From what I’ve read about it so far, I think the public’s reaction is that many are just learning about the abuses that took place in those schools, and the fact that there are adults alive, who were children who attended those schools, and were never given the opportunity to speak out about what happened to them, maybe because no one outside their group wanted to hear it or preferred they remain silent.

Maybe just finding the graves unmarked, and possibly even if there were marked with wooden crosses, and deteriorated over time, the questions remain if anyone took the time to make sure, those graves were kept sacred and maintained, and to make the history/information of what happened inside those schools available to the public.
[Edited 7/4/21 15:16pm]
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #19 posted 07/04/21 2:02pm

2elijah

avatar

This reminds me of the African burial ground, discovered in 1991 in NYC, when builders discovered a burial site, while breaking ground for a Federal building, where 15,000 to 20,000 enslaved and Free Blacks were buried in the 17th to 18th centuries. Located in the Wall Street area. Only a few historians knew about that burial ground. That was when most in the public found out about it.

A National Monument was built around the burial site, and remains today to pay homage to those buried there.

https://thecorrespondent....4-125573a2
*****

I think something like that should be built to honor the Indigenous children buried near the schools they were forced to attend. Many also ended up in foster homes. A monument to at least acknowledge what they experienced was wrong, and as a show of respect for their lives.
[Edited 7/4/21 14:23pm]
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #20 posted 07/04/21 2:46pm

IanRG

Strive said:

2elijah said:

@bolded part. That’s not true. It sounds like you’re taking a personal stance, that the response about the findings of theses graves, are attacking a certain group of people. Let’s be real, it is common knowledge that just about ‘every’ group, whether racial, ethnic or for religious reasons, have fought/ committed crimes against each other. It doesn’t make it right when foreigners come in and claim ‘they saved specific groups from themselves’ by sugarcoating/dismissing that the brutal acts of abuse, they themselves committed, against those they claim they saved, justifies their acts of crime. Let’s not do that by downplaying those past wrongs. If those actions were acknowledged and wrongs corrected, during that time period, instead of shoving it under the rugs of history, and ignoring the fact, that a lot of that biased mentality still exists today, against today’s descendants who are still alive and were victims of those schools’ abuses, then maybe people would be having a different discussion about that past today Why can’t they (living victims) have a voice in exposing what happened? It’s like victims of sexual abuse, who years later exposes what happened to them, and others asking why talk about it now, when it happened long ago? It’s about the trauma the victims experienced at the hands of their abusers, where many walked away without paying the price for their crimes, and so those victims and their families traumatized by it, have a right to find peace within themselves by exposing the truths of such crimes. About the second part of your post where you claim people should be grateful for things being built out of the wilderness? At what cost? Abuse, theft, slavery? Who said life was better for the Indigenous because outsiders moved themselves in? Who is it to say they weren’t doing just fine until outsiders moved in on them? And what’s the bs about White people being an original sin, because of being White? I’m sure you’re a lot smarter than that. You’re making this personal. I could be angry at Africa for engaging in the slave trade with Europeans, Arabs, etc., Keep in mind Africa is not excused in the past or present fir any crimes committed now or then. All over the world, there are ethnic/religious wars happening between various groups living in the same countries, and abuses being committed against their own people. With that being said, just because anyone discusses crimes early Europeans committed against the Indigenous, they don’t get a pass, because no other racial group gets one either. Like I said, it’s about learning and acknowledging the wrongs of the past, even if it means hearing the ugly and uncomfortable truths of crimes committed, by members of groups we all identify with. It’s the only way to learn to be better human beings, and admitting when a wrong is a wrong. [Edited 7/4/21 10:35am]

I can only go off of what I see and I see a mass deception going on.

.

In theory, what you are saying is true. If we could all learn from the past and grow to be better people, that would be great. Let us not make the same mistake of trying to put one culture over another and realize that we can be brothers in the same nation with our differences. Cool.
.
(I mean sure, there's an argument to be made that Candians would also be viewed as the bad guys if they just left First Nations people to rot in their own reservations like Americans did but we'll ignore that for now. Let's just agree that when it comes to the past, it's shades of grey. People try to do what they think is best within that time frame)
.
In reality, some people honestly believe that only white western civilzation has done wrong and that there's no learning from it except to tear down the system and marginalize the descendants of those that committed the evil.

.

Like you claim there was no agenda with the release of this information. Then I look at people calling for the cancelation of Canada Day and the Communist Party Of Canada bragging on Twitter about how they tore down statues of Queen Elizabeth and Captain Cook, defaced the Canada flag, put up their own flag and chanted "no pride in genocide".

.

It couldn't be more clear to see.

.

Add in the burning of Catholic Churches in Canada. Priests and pastors getting arrested for trying to hold services of worship against Covid rules while widespread lawlessness in various Canadian cities is ignored. This is just the continuation of the consolidation of power for the people that don't care about (or despise) their country and the systematic shaming of its citizens so they feel like they can't speak out against it.

.

I guess it's fair to say I'm taking it personal because I can see what's coming down the pike and apparently very few people can see what's taking place.

.

edit: Here's a statement from ʔaq ̓ am tribe https://www.steugene.ca/e...ed-graves/

"Last year while conducting some remedial work around the ʔaq̓ am Cemetery, an unfortunate incident occurred whereby an unknown and unmarked grave was found. In order to ensure no other graves were disturbed, ʔaq̓ am Leadership, in consultation with Elders and Knowledge Keepers, made the decision to employ a ground-penetrating radar system to identify additional unmarked graves.
[...]

ʔaq̓ am Leadership would like to stress that although these findings are tragic, they are still undergoing analysis and the history of this area is a complex one. The cemetery was established around 1865 for settlers to the region. In 1874, the St. Eugene Hospital was built near the St. Mary River and many of the graves in the ʔaq̓ am cemetery are those who passed away in the hospital from within the Cranbrook region during this timeframe. The hospital burned down in 1899 and was rebuilt in Cranbrook. The community of ʔaq̓ am did not start to bury their ancestors in the cemetery until the late 1800’s.

The St. Eugene Residential School, adjacent to the cemetery site, was in operation from 1912 to 1970 and was attended by hundreds of Ktunaxa children as well as children from neighboring nations and communities.

Graves were traditionally marked with wooden crosses and this practice continues to this day in many Indigenous communities across Canada. Wooden crosses can deteriorate over time due to erosion or fire which can result in an unmarked grave.

These factors, among others, make it extremely difficult to establish whether or not these unmarked graves contain the remains of children who attended the St. Eugene Residential School."
.
Well I guess the media didn't think it was important to report any of this. I wonder why. Surely it was an innocent reason.

.

[Edited 7/4/21 11:59am]

.

The simplest way to shutdown the alleged communist agenda is to address the issues.

.

1 Do what the Canadian government announced: Investigate this and seek to document it and correct for its affects if possible.

.

2 Don't support Trudeau's attempt to publicly deflect responsibility to the Pope. It is a shared responsibility between the Canadian governments and the schools run by the churches (a high proportion of which were Catholic). This only inflames the aggreived (see point 4).

.

3 Don't support the Catholic Church's response because it should always firstly be to seek to openly correct for the sins of the people running these forced residential schools and inform people of the circumstances where there were not sins (eg Tuberculosis outbreaks, wooden grave markings, confusion with old community grave yards etc.).

.

4 Don't support people when they burn down churches etc. but allow for peaceful protests.

.

5 Don't support people breaking covid safe laws but allow for safe observances, weddings etc.

.

If you do this then the extremists will not get sufficent public support from these issues to do anything.

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Reply #21 posted 07/04/21 3:27pm

2elijah

avatar

Ok so I found this article. Really don’t know much about those schools that existed in Canada, but did see a vid of the statues of Queens Victoria and Elizabeth II, pulled down. In reading bolded part of article, seems to be the reason protesters pulled it down.

People calling for cancellation of Canada Day, is like many Americans in the U.S. who feel Columbus Day should not be honored, because of the abuses he and his men committed to the Amerindians/Native Americans, and so several states have changed the name of the holiday to Indigenous American Day. Plus he never set foot on the mainland of America, so I never understood why he’s celebrated in this country, because he never discovered it. hmmm ugly historical truths are not easy, but sooner or later those truths surface, and has to be acknowledged.


https://www.thedailybeast...iscoveries

“Video showed protesters cheering as the Victoria statue outside the Manitoba Legislative Building in Winnipeg was dragged down. They then covered the statue’s face in a Canadian flag, pelted it with balloons full of bright paint, and chanted the slogan “no pride in genocide.” A nearby statue of Britain's reigning queen suffered a similar fate.

It’s not clear why the royal statues were targeted, but Victoria reigned from 1837 until her death in 1901, so was head of state at the founding of the Canadian confederation, and when the Canadian government enacted its brutal schools policy to forcibly assimilate Indigenous children.

Over 150,000 Indigenous Canadian children were snatched from their families and forced to attend the schools in the 19th and 20th centuries. Canadian authorities estimate that more than 4,000 children died at the schools—but some experts put the number closer to 15,000.”
[Edited 7/4/21 15:42pm]
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #22 posted 07/05/21 7:50am

PennyPurple

avatar

Same thing happened here in the US when the Native American children were taken and forced to be White.

U.S.A.
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Reply #23 posted 07/05/21 12:32pm

Strive

IanRG said:

.

The simplest way to shutdown the alleged communist agenda is to address the issues.

.

1 Do what the Canadian government announced: Investigate this and seek to document it and correct for its affects if possible.

.

2 Don't support Trudeau's attempt to publicly deflect responsibility to the Pope. It is a shared responsibility between the Canadian governments and the schools run by the churches (a high proportion of which were Catholic). This only inflames the aggreived (see point 4).

.

3 Don't support the Catholic Church's response because it should always firstly be to seek to openly correct for the sins of the people running these forced residential schools and inform people of the circumstances where there were not sins (eg Tuberculosis outbreaks, wooden grave markings, confusion with old community grave yards etc.).

.

4 Don't support people when they burn down churches etc. but allow for peaceful protests.

.

5 Don't support people breaking covid safe laws but allow for safe observances, weddings etc.

.

If you do this then the extremists will not get sufficent public support from these issues to do anything.

Negative. Because there will always be some issue.
.
Find out who's buried in those graves, take steps so it never happens again, pay damages to the surviving family members, have the Pope and Trudeau personally kiss the feet of every First Nations member in Canada before stepping down, have every white Canadian self-flagellate themselves through the streets for their ancestors' sins.

.

It will never be enough. They will never get forgiveness. Because it's not about justice for the victims. It's about power for the people exploiting the issue.

.

The communists that tore down statues and defaced the Canadian flag and talk about the "imperialist present" of Canada, they don't care about the people in those graves. It's all a ploy to get power for themselves.

.

They get implied public support. Media props up their narrative. Police won't stop them. Politicians pay lip service to them. Anybody that stands up against them gets the boots.

.

I'll admit, it's hard to hold onto Christian ideals when you're facing that monster. Haha. They're making the world a much more violent place, they're causing people to harden their hearts in defense of their attacks.

[Edited 7/5/21 12:43pm]

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Reply #24 posted 07/05/21 2:02pm

IanRG

Strive said:

IanRG said:

.

The simplest way to shutdown the alleged communist agenda is to address the issues.

.

1 Do what the Canadian government announced: Investigate this and seek to document it and correct for its affects if possible.

.

2 Don't support Trudeau's attempt to publicly deflect responsibility to the Pope. It is a shared responsibility between the Canadian governments and the schools run by the churches (a high proportion of which were Catholic). This only inflames the aggreived (see point 4).

.

3 Don't support the Catholic Church's response because it should always firstly be to seek to openly correct for the sins of the people running these forced residential schools and inform people of the circumstances where there were not sins (eg Tuberculosis outbreaks, wooden grave markings, confusion with old community grave yards etc.).

.

4 Don't support people when they burn down churches etc. but allow for peaceful protests.

.

5 Don't support people breaking covid safe laws but allow for safe observances, weddings etc.

.

If you do this then the extremists will not get sufficent public support from these issues to do anything.

Negative. Because there will always be some issue.
.
Find out who's buried in those graves, take steps so it never happens again, pay damages to the surviving family members, have the Pope and Trudeau personally kiss the feet of every First Nations member in Canada before stepping down, have every white Canadian self-flagellate themselves through the streets for their ancestors' sins.

.

It will never be enough. They will never get forgiveness. Because it's not about justice for the victims. It's about power for the people exploiting the issue.

.

The communists that tore down statues and defaced the Canadian flag and talk about the "imperialist present" of Canada, they don't care about the people in those graves. It's all a ploy to get power for themselves.

.

They get implied public support. Media props up their narrative. Police won't stop them. Politicians pay lip service to them. Anybody that stands up against them gets the boots.

.

I'll admit, it's hard to hold onto Christian ideals when you're facing that monster. Haha. They're making the world a much more violent place, they're causing people to harden their hearts in defense of their attacks.

[Edited 7/5/21 12:43pm]

.

Once you fail to hold on to your ideals because you are too scared of the people that hold on to their's you have already lost.

.

There always being some issue is life.

.

Always seeking to do the right thing about each issue means never dismissing it as that is just being a commie or anti-white. As soon as you do this - YOU are the problem: You become the person always finding something. Others will see that for you it is never enough. See you find every white person wronged by a person of another race. See you take steps so others never seek to raise their heads as equals again. See you get them to pay damages by not being paid as equals or not having equal rights and access. See you have them kiss whichever national flag and celebrate the day they were invaded, enslaved etc. See you have every one of them publicly announce just how good and thankful they are for the white-washed history of colonisation and expansion forced to be taught in schools and on it goes. It is all about maintaining your power and it is never enough.

.

Or we can see you address each issue as it arises and see you find the best, fairest, most equitable solution for all in line with the best aspects of religious and moral beliefs where you show your ministry by knowing when to take the knocks for your failings, when to work together without any concern for what political flavour or ethnic hertiage the other person has. And when you must draw the line against the evils done by, or in the name of, every side of politics or every belief held including, and especially, your own.

[Edited 7/5/21 14:50pm]

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Reply #25 posted 07/05/21 2:06pm

Strive

IanRG said:

.

Once you fail to hold on to your ideals because you are too scared of the people that hold on to their's you have already lost.

.

There always being some issue is life.

.

Always seeking to do the right thing about each issue means never dismissing it as that is just being a commies or anti-white. As soon as you do this - YOU are the problem: You become the person always finding something. Others will see that for you it is never enough. See you find every white person wronged by a person of another race. See you take steps so others never seek to raise their heads as equals again. See you get them to pay damages by not being paid as equals or not having equal rights and access. See you have them kiss whichever national flag and celebrate the day they were invaded, enslaved etc. See you have every one of them publicly announce just how good and thankful they are for the white-washed history of colonisation and expansion forced to be taught in schools and on it goes. It is all about maintaining your power and it is never enough.

.

Or we can see you address issue as it arises and see you find the best, fairest, most equitable solution for all in line with the best aspects of religious and moral beliefs where you show your ministry by knowing when to take the knocks for your failings, when to work together without any concern for what political flavour or ethnic hertiage the other person has. And when you must draw the line against the evils done by, or in the name of, every side of politics or every belief held including, and especially, your own.

Negative again.

The Christian ideal is to not hate them. Even thought they are doing Satan's work and trying to destroy and enslave us, we shouldn't hate them.

I am not giving up that ideal even as I call a spade a spade.

You are evil. You work for Satan. It's pointless to talk to you. I pray you repent but I doubt you will.

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Reply #26 posted 07/05/21 2:22pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Strive said:

Negative again.

The Christian ideal is to not hate them. Even thought they are doing Satan's work and trying to destroy and enslave us, we shouldn't hate them.

I am not giving up that ideal even as I call a spade a spade.

You are evil. You work for Satan. It's pointless to talk to you. I pray you repent but I doubt you will.

Oh Brother...it was the Christians who forced the First Nations into schools and homes, to teach them to be white. rolleyes to force their idea's onto the Tribes.


Offer money? For what? Money won't bring their history back, won't bring the dead back and as far as I'm concerned won't correct the wrongs.

U.S.A.
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Reply #27 posted 07/05/21 2:23pm

IanRG

Strive said:

IanRG said:

.

Once you fail to hold on to your ideals because you are too scared of the people that hold on to their's you have already lost.

.

There always being some issue is life.

.

Always seeking to do the right thing about each issue means never dismissing it as that is just being a commies or anti-white. As soon as you do this - YOU are the problem: You become the person always finding something. Others will see that for you it is never enough. See you find every white person wronged by a person of another race. See you take steps so others never seek to raise their heads as equals again. See you get them to pay damages by not being paid as equals or not having equal rights and access. See you have them kiss whichever national flag and celebrate the day they were invaded, enslaved etc. See you have every one of them publicly announce just how good and thankful they are for the white-washed history of colonisation and expansion forced to be taught in schools and on it goes. It is all about maintaining your power and it is never enough.

.

Or we can see you address issue as it arises and see you find the best, fairest, most equitable solution for all in line with the best aspects of religious and moral beliefs where you show your ministry by knowing when to take the knocks for your failings, when to work together without any concern for what political flavour or ethnic hertiage the other person has. And when you must draw the line against the evils done by, or in the name of, every side of politics or every belief held including, and especially, your own.

Negative again.

The Christian ideal is to not hate them. Even thought they are doing Satan's work and trying to destroy and enslave us, we shouldn't hate them.

I am not giving up that ideal even as I call a spade a spade.

You are evil. You work for Satan. It's pointless to talk to you. I pray you repent but I doubt you will.

.

I pray that you see the hate you show to anyone who disagrees with you by calling them evil and working for Satan and pointless to talk them for what it is.

.

This reminds me of those who had reduced what they were taught by God to simple rules and, therefore, criticised Jesus for healing the sick on the Sabbath. Those seeking to tell others that they are evil for seeking to do good.

.

If the Christian ideal is just not hating others, then I am no Christian. That I know being a Christian is so much more than that is why I am a Christian. We are at our best when we seek to raise everyone up equally and equitably - when we love all of our neighbours as ourselves - not just the white ones, not just the far right ones, not just the GoP ones, not just the Christian ones - all of God's Creation.

[Edited 7/5/21 14:27pm]

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Reply #28 posted 07/05/21 5:09pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

IanRG said:

Strive said:

Negative again.

The Christian ideal is to not hate them. Even thought they are doing Satan's work and trying to destroy and enslave us, we shouldn't hate them.

I am not giving up that ideal even as I call a spade a spade.

You are evil. You work for Satan. It's pointless to talk to you. I pray you repent but I doubt you will.

.

I pray that you see the hate you show to anyone who disagrees with you by calling them evil and working for Satan and pointless to talk them for what it is.

.

This reminds me of those who had reduced what they were taught by God to simple rules and, therefore, criticised Jesus for healing the sick on the Sabbath. Those seeking to tell others that they are evil for seeking to do good.

.

If the Christian ideal is just not hating others, then I am no Christian. That I know being a Christian is so much more than that is why I am a Christian. We are at our best when we seek to raise everyone up equally and equitably - when we love all of our neighbours as ourselves - not just the white ones, not just the far right ones, not just the GoP ones, not just the Christian ones - all of God's Creation.

[Edited 7/5/21 14:27pm]

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #29 posted 07/05/21 5:39pm

IanRG

fortuneandserendipity said:

IanRG said:

.

I pray that you see the hate you show to anyone who disagrees with you by calling them evil and working for Satan and pointless to talk them for what it is.

.

This reminds me of those who had reduced what they were taught by God to simple rules and, therefore, criticised Jesus for healing the sick on the Sabbath. Those seeking to tell others that they are evil for seeking to do good.

.

If the Christian ideal is just not hating others, then I am no Christian. That I know being a Christian is so much more than that is why I am a Christian. We are at our best when we seek to raise everyone up equally and equitably - when we love all of our neighbours as ourselves - not just the white ones, not just the far right ones, not just the GoP ones, not just the Christian ones - all of God's Creation.

[Edited 7/5/21 14:27pm]

.

And no interest in your trolling.

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