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Thread started 04/13/21 12:09pm

OldFriends4Sal
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Vaccine Passports:

Do you have these in your country?

What do you feel about this for yourself/your country?


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#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
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Reply #1 posted 04/13/21 12:34pm

Empress

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do you have these in your country?

What do you feel about this for yourself/your country?

We do not have these in Canada yet, but I hope we eventually will. I realize many will disagree with me and will say it infringes on our rights, but we are in a pandemic and this thing is not going away for a very long time, so I think it's necessary, especially for travel purposes. Having said this, I highly doubt the Canadian gov will ever mandate this.

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Reply #2 posted 04/13/21 4:45pm

TrivialPursuit

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No fucking way, and I pity anyone who endorses them. What I do with my body is private and my damn business, whether it's a flu shot (which is all this is, by the way), or anything else. I don't have to tell anyone what shots I've had (I'm not a puppy facing parvo), or haven't had, or any medical history. There are HIPAA laws to protect doctor-patient privilege aka privacy. Now folks wanna start putting that into an app on their phones?! GTFO.

Imagine the horror and disrepect if someone walked up to a woman and asked to see her abortion passport to get into a Christian owned business, or a vasectomy passport for a man to go to a Catholic church. And yes, I know abortions and ball snips aren't contagious.

As of today, the CDC's site says there have been 31,076,891 cases of Covid. There have been 559,741 deaths. If you divide the deaths by the total cases, it's 0.01801. That's 1.8% death rate. Which means, 99.981+/- who actually get Covid, survive it. Why the fuck do I need a passport for any of that?! How deadly, really, is something that can't even hit the 2% mark.

If the media started throwing up flu or common cold or abortion numbers on the news every evening to drill it in the fear factor, people would be up in arms about that. Sure, saying "over half a million people have died." Terrible, but add "...out of 332,278,200 people in the united states, and only about 10.69% have actually gotten this thing." No one wants to get it, but if you, your chances of being alive after are fucking spectacular.

By the way, how long are these passports supposed to last? A year? Six months? A decade? "Until it's gone?" This ain't 1930s Germany. I don't have to show my papers to move freely. If I do, then I'm not free, and last I checked I'm an autonomous human being who can do what he wants. Moreover, a bunch of old cranky white men write all that out on paper some 245 years ago.


I would beseech those who think this idea of vaccine passports as "normal" to reconsider how much freedom they've already needlessly given up, and how much more they're willing to in order to fit in with the crowd.

And listen - if you want to get any of the vaccines, go for it. I won't stop you. It's your body, and you can do what you wish with it and what you, as a thinking human being, decide is best for you. If you wanna have to have your papers ready at any given point for a virtual stop n' frisk, be my guest. I'll be the one walking past you, laughing.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #3 posted 04/13/21 6:42pm

AMERICA1ST

Get ready for it, American liberals - its coming. You are going to reap what you sow

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Reply #4 posted 04/13/21 8:50pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

Bit off topic, but seriously why the need for 2 shots in quick successsion for any of the vaccines. As well as the RNA vaccines proving very effective after one jab, I've seen data regarding the AstraZeneca vaccine that indicates immunity carries on increasing past 28 days following innoculation. So um. Ya think that if the vaccine's first shot provides protection against hospitalization and death close to 100%, given one month's grace period, ya might want to focus on giving as many people their first shot before anyone gets their second. That way, less people die, less people suffer and less people, at least in theory, get 'long covid'.



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Reply #5 posted 04/13/21 8:51pm

fortuneandsere
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Vaccine passports for international travel are essential. Vaccine passports for domestic purposes are an albatross.

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Reply #6 posted 04/13/21 9:03pm

TrivialPursuit

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fortuneandserendipity said:

Vaccine passports for international travel are essential. Vaccine passports for domestic purposes are an albatross.


No, they're not. This is the flu, not some flesh eating disease or leprosy. People have the flu and cold every year, no one has to show shit to get on a plane or go to the UK or whatever.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #7 posted 04/13/21 9:28pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

TrivialPursuit said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Vaccine passports for international travel are essential. Vaccine passports for domestic purposes are an albatross.


No, they're not. This is the flu, not some flesh eating disease or leprosy. People have the flu and cold every year, no one has to show shit to get on a plane or go to the UK or whatever.


Sorry, the statistics prove it's far worse than the flu. The mortality rate is much worse. Also the flu doesn't give people CFS that affects long covid sufferers at rate of ~1 in 10. And if there's a new emergent variant from say India and it's more virulent, not dissimilar to the Brazil and South African strains, do you really want people visiting from that country who've not been innoculated?

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Reply #8 posted 04/14/21 1:31am

jaawwnn

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The devil will be in the details won't they? There's talk of them here but I dunno, by the time they get their stuff together they may no longer be needed. We have strong privacy laws here and a few organizations who work 24/7 to ensure they are enforced. Obviously google, facebook, and amazon already have all our data and are absolutely above the law so shrug

Also, get the hell out of here anyone who is still calling it the flu.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #9 posted 04/14/21 6:17am

OldFriends4Sal
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Growing privacy concerns expressed over use of 'vaccine passports'

Already in use in Israel, "vaccine passports" are also being developed in the European Union and the United Kingdom, as well as Japan and China


10:59 PM PDT March 29, 2021

SAN DIEGO — Nationwide, the pace of the vaccine rollout is reaching record numbers, with nearly three-and-a-half million shots administered every day.

As businesses worldwide begin to reopen, some countries are developing high-tech ways of providing proof of vaccination.

A growing number of companies, from airlines to cruise lines to sports teams, say they will require proof of vaccination from customers, and app-based "vaccine passports" could help expedite that process.

In Israel, its government-issued "Green Pass" has already become a way of life.

"It is all safe in the telephone," said one Israeli woman, showing off her Green Pass on her mobile phone. "It is very convenient!"

The digital certification, verifying that a citizen has been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, is now required in Israel, as users "scan in" to gain entry to gyms, hotels and concerts.

Similar models of these vaccine passports, sometimes called "immunity certificates," are also being developed in the European Union and the United Kingdom, as well as Japan and China, as a way of opening international travel.

"It's a very controversial question," said António Guterres, Secretary-General of the United Nations.

He stressed the need for all countries to have equitable access to this technology, as well as global cooperation as to how to uniformly roll out a vaccine passport, "because the worst thing would be for some countries to have it, for other countries not to have it, for some countries to recognize it, for other countries not to recognize," Guterres added.

Here in the United States, though, the Biden administration made it clear that any type of vaccine passport program would not be organized through the federal government, and instead left to the private sector.

"There will be no centralized universal vaccinations database, and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential," said White House spokesperson Jen Psaki.

New York State is now piloting its own voluntary vaccine passport prograprogram developed by IBM


Called "Excelsior Pass," the app-based digital certification requires users to enter personal data like their name, birth date and zip code...



San Diego to immediately ...| cbs8.com

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
https://www.youtube.com/w...XfF2cimj7I
Never No Time To Play...
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Reply #10 posted 04/14/21 6:20am

OldFriends4Sal
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No description available.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
https://www.youtube.com/w...XfF2cimj7I
Never No Time To Play...
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Reply #11 posted 04/14/21 6:30am

jaawwnn

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What do you think Oldfriends? I'm definitely more against them than I am for them but I don't have strong feelings on it. If they do come in we'll have to keep a close eye on those in charge to ensure the "passports" have a sunset clause that actually happens.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #12 posted 04/14/21 7:59am

TweetyV6

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fortuneandserendipity said:

TrivialPursuit said:


No, they're not. This is the flu, not some flesh eating disease or leprosy. People have the flu and cold every year, no one has to show shit to get on a plane or go to the UK or whatever.


Sorry, the statistics prove it's far worse than the flu. The mortality rate is much worse. Also the flu doesn't give people CFS that affects long covid sufferers at rate of ~1 in 10. And if there's a new emergent variant from say India and it's more virulent, not dissimilar to the Brazil and South African strains, do you really want people visiting from that country who've not been innoculated?


It IS like the flu. Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) = 0.1% similar to the flu.
Says the lead scientist, Dr. Ioannidis, who also publishes on behalf of the WHO.

https://www.medrxiv.org/c...20101253v3


Edit: Added the link.

[Edited 4/14/21 8:11am]

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #13 posted 04/14/21 8:11am

jaawwnn

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I'm less afraid of dying from it than I am suffering from other long term effects, none of which are captured in the fatality figures.

The 0.1% figure is highly disputed anyway. He's a divisive figure in the whole Covid thing and it's sloppy, eh, posting (!?) to present him as simply a guy who "publishes on behalf of the WHO."

[Edited 4/14/21 8:15am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #14 posted 04/14/21 8:20am

TweetyV6

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jaawwnn said:

I'm less afraid of dying from it than I am suffering from other long term affects, none of which are captured in the fatality figures.


I guess stories of that are overexaggerated.

I've had Covid-19 in March 2020. Not hospitalized. After that I suffered a pulmonary embolism.
Turned out it was not related to Covid-19 but due to an auto-immune illness.
I fully recovered by June.

A good friend of mine had Covid-19 in May 2020. Same age as I was, 50, but he was hospitalized (not on ICU) for 6 days. Was a wreck when he came out of the hospital but fully recovered by October

Another friend of mine, 55, had Covid-19 in February this year. He was hospitalized for 3 weeks, close to getting on the ICU. Now, 6 weeks later, he feels wel and indicated his recovery so far as about 90%.

There's a buch of other people I know who probably have had Covid-19. None of them say they still have any health issue.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #15 posted 04/14/21 8:25am

TweetyV6

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Vaccine Passports suck big time.

a) because of privacy reasons (these aren't paper documents, it's an app that tracks where you were when, for how long and with whom) and
b) because it will split society into 2 as currently is happening in Israel.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #16 posted 04/14/21 8:27am

jaawwnn

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TweetyV6 said:

jaawwnn said:

I'm less afraid of dying from it than I am suffering from other long term affects, none of which are captured in the fatality figures.


I guess stories of that are overexaggerated.

I've had Covid-19 in March 2020. Not hospitalized. After that I suffered a pulmonary embolism.
Turned out it was not related to Covid-19 but due to an auto-immune illness.
I fully recovered by June.

A good friend of mine had Covid-19 in May 2020. Same age as I was, 50, but he was hospitalized (not on ICU) for 6 days. Was a wreck when he came out of the hospital but fully recovered by October

Another friend of mine, 55, had Covid-19 in February this year. He was hospitalized for 3 weeks, close to getting on the ICU. Now, 6 weeks later, he feels wel and indicated his recovery so far as about 90%.

There's a buch of other people I know who probably have had Covid-19. None of them say they still have any health issue.

Cool anecdotes, I know people who got ill, got better, and are still suffering months on so we're even there.

I'll say now what I said way back whenever it was we last had this conversation, this is/was an unknown disease and governments are acting very cautiously. Perhaps too cautiously yes, perhaps not.

IIRC you are a free-market fundamentalist who values high GDP and growth way over human life so your position is understandable, you want that money moving again.

TweetyV6 said:

Vaccine Passports suck big time.

a) because of privacy reasons (these aren't paper documents, it's an app that tracks where you were when, for how long and with whom) and
b) because it will split society into 2 as currently is happening in Israel.

I actually pretty much agree with you here. In regards B, here in Ireland is worth watching over the next few months for a very similar situation as the North of Ireland (i.e. the UK) is months ahead in its vaccination programme. We're going to have a very difficult time when they are fully vaccinated and moving (over a porous border) while we're still in some form of lockdown.





[Edited 4/14/21 8:32am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #17 posted 04/14/21 10:47am

TrivialPursuit

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fortuneandserendipity said:

Sorry, the statistics prove it's far worse than the flu. The mortality rate is much worse. Also the flu doesn't give people CFS that affects long covid sufferers at rate of ~1 in 10. And if there's a new emergent variant from say India and it's more virulent, not dissimilar to the Brazil and South African strains, do you really want people visiting from that country who've not been innoculated?


They're "far worse" because the news caught a hot story. Imagine, as I noted, if the news reported every flu case every year from September to March. We constantly hear "it's cold and flu season," "it's allergy season." We're innundated with sickness and seasons of it. But if we heard flu reports every year on TV, we'd be just as up in arms about that. And why doesn't the news report on flu cases every year? C-19 is a form of the flu, because they're using flu vaccines for it (and one is highly experimental and has never been made for public consumption before now, then suddenly after 10 months it's people-ready? OKAY THEN).

If the media reported any number in the medical field, everyone would think "this is far worse that that." God, imagine if abortion numbers were thrown up on TV every day? Or pneumonia? Or everytime someoen refilled a prescription for depression?

Less than 10% of the country caught Covid. Less than 2% of those people died from it. The only thing "far worse" is people's perception of it. Yes, it's real, no it's not the red light everyone believes.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #18 posted 04/14/21 3:16pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

TweetyV6 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Sorry, the statistics prove it's far worse than the flu. The mortality rate is much worse. Also the flu doesn't give people CFS that affects long covid sufferers at rate of ~1 in 10. And if there's a new emergent variant from say India and it's more virulent, not dissimilar to the Brazil and South African strains, do you really want people visiting from that country who've not been innoculated?


It IS like the flu. Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) = 0.1% similar to the flu.
Says the lead scientist, Dr. Ioannidis, who also publishes on behalf of the WHO.

https://www.medrxiv.org/c...20101253v3


Edit: Added the link.

[Edited 4/14/21 8:11am]


The flu infection fatality rate is considerably less than 0.1%. Don't forget, as with covid some people will catch influenza and not know they've got it. There are healthy people who don't ever 'get' colds or the flu. You've probably met someone like that. They're still being exposed to the virus, and are still being infected, just not symptomatic. And don't you think if every year the seasonal flu killed one in one thousand, we might hear about it more, and um mask up during the flu season? Or at least old people would. Especially when the flu vaccines don't even work half the time, because the virus is always mutating.

Where libertarian folk may have a point is in any comparison between Covid and earlier flu pandemics, like the Asian Flu, Hong Kong Flu, which had case fatality rates of 0.2%. The world didn't stop then. Taking into account asymptomatics, I think the covid infection fatality rate is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.5%.

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Reply #19 posted 04/14/21 4:42pm

PennyPurple

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TrivialPursuit said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Vaccine passports for international travel are essential. Vaccine passports for domestic purposes are an albatross.


No, they're not. This is the flu, not some flesh eating disease or leprosy. People have the flu and cold every year, no one has to show shit to get on a plane or go to the UK or whatever.

It is NOT just the flu.

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Reply #20 posted 04/14/21 4:45pm

PennyPurple

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TweetyV6 said:

jaawwnn said:

I'm less afraid of dying from it than I am suffering from other long term affects, none of which are captured in the fatality figures.


I guess stories of that are overexaggerated.

I've had Covid-19 in March 2020. Not hospitalized. After that I suffered a pulmonary embolism.
Turned out it was not related to Covid-19 but due to an auto-immune illness.
I fully recovered by June.

A good friend of mine had Covid-19 in May 2020. Same age as I was, 50, but he was hospitalized (not on ICU) for 6 days. Was a wreck when he came out of the hospital but fully recovered by October

Another friend of mine, 55, had Covid-19 in February this year. He was hospitalized for 3 weeks, close to getting on the ICU. Now, 6 weeks later, he feels wel and indicated his recovery so far as about 90%.

There's a buch of other people I know who probably have had Covid-19. None of them say they still have any health issue.

If it was just the flu then why did it take your friend from May to October to get better?

You're other friend who got it in Feb. is still not 100%.



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Reply #21 posted 04/14/21 6:05pm

AMERICA1ST

TrivialPursuit said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Sorry, the statistics prove it's far worse than the flu. The mortality rate is much worse. Also the flu doesn't give people CFS that affects long covid sufferers at rate of ~1 in 10. And if there's a new emergent variant from say India and it's more virulent, not dissimilar to the Brazil and South African strains, do you really want people visiting from that country who've not been innoculated?


They're "far worse" because the news caught a hot story. Imagine, as I noted, if the news reported every flu case every year from September to March. We constantly hear "it's cold and flu season," "it's allergy season." We're innundated with sickness and seasons of it. But if we heard flu reports every year on TV, we'd be just as up in arms about that. And why doesn't the news report on flu cases every year? C-19 is a form of the flu, because they're using flu vaccines for it (and one is highly experimental and has never been made for public consumption before now, then suddenly after 10 months it's people-ready? OKAY THEN).

If the media reported any number in the medical field, everyone would think "this is far worse that that." God, imagine if abortion numbers were thrown up on TV every day? Or pneumonia? Or everytime someoen refilled a prescription for depression?

Less than 10% of the country caught Covid. Less than 2% of those people died from it. The only thing "far worse" is people's perception of it. Yes, it's real, no it's not the red light everyone believes.

SNIP - of4$

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Reply #22 posted 04/14/21 6:29pm

PennyPurple

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AMERICA1ST said:

SNIP - of4$

SNIP - of4$

SNIP - of4$

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Reply #23 posted 04/14/21 8:25pm

AMERICA1ST

PennyPurple said:

AMERICA1ST said:

SNIP - of4$

SNIP - of4$

SNIP - of4$

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Reply #24 posted 04/15/21 6:46am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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WARNING

Do not turn this thread into a Trump vs Anti Trump Republican/Democrat battle

Do not attack others posts or experiences

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
https://www.youtube.com/w...XfF2cimj7I
Never No Time To Play...
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Reply #25 posted 04/15/21 10:41pm

TweetyV6

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jaawwnn said:


IIRC you are a free-market fundamentalist who values high GDP and growth way over human life so your position is understandable, you want that money moving again.


It has nothing to do with that.
a) fatality rates are not excessive

b) the vast majority of those who die have an age at wich you might expect them to die.
(e.g.: the Netherlands Average life expectancy is 83.3 yrs, the median age of people dying with Covid-19 is 83.7 yrs)

Governments aren't talking about deaths anymore, the narrative hase changed to keeping the health care system up & running.

Similar to what happend in the climate bullshit.
First it was global warming, but when data showed global warming wasn't happening as predicted, the narrative changed to 'Climate Change' (what ever that may be, it still hasn't been defined)

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #26 posted 04/18/21 3:17pm

lust

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TrivialPursuit said:



fortuneandserendipity said:


Vaccine passports for international travel are essential. Vaccine passports for domestic purposes are an albatross.




No, they're not. This is the flu, not some flesh eating disease or leprosy. People have the flu and cold every year, no one has to show shit to get on a plane or go to the UK or whatever.



Had to check the date of this post. I assumed it must be from March 2020. It was stupid back then.

Amazed people are still saying this.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #27 posted 04/18/21 3:21pm

lust

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Bring it on.

They’re coming whether you like it or not.

If it’s limited to international travel then there shouldn’t be many complaints.

Being allowed to travel into another country is a privilege, not a right.

And it shouldn’t upset too many anti vaxxers as they likely don’t travel much anyway.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #28 posted 04/18/21 10:14pm

TrivialPursuit

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lust said:

TrivialPursuit said:


No, they're not. This is the flu, not some flesh eating disease or leprosy. People have the flu and cold every year, no one has to show shit to get on a plane or go to the UK or whatever.

Had to check the date of this post. I assumed it must be from March 2020. It was stupid back then. Amazed people are still saying this.


The truth is the truth, no matter where you hear it. They're using a base vaccine made for the flu. It's a strain of the flu. Coronavirus has been around for 30 or 40 years. This isn't new.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #29 posted 04/18/21 11:10pm

TweetyV6

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TrivialPursuit said:

lust said:

TrivialPursuit said: Had to check the date of this post. I assumed it must be from March 2020. It was stupid back then. Amazed people are still saying this.


The truth is the truth, no matter where you hear it. They're using a base vaccine made for the flu. It's a strain of the flu. Coronavirus has been around for 30 or 40 years. This isn't new.


Coronavirusses have been arround for ages.
They were first discovered and identified in the 1960's

That's why about 20-30% of the population isn't susceptible to SARS-CoV-2
They have already been ill from one of the other coronavirusses.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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