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Reply #210 posted 04/02/21 4:45pm

uPtoWnNY

IanRG said:

2elijah said:

IanRG said: I believe in one’s right to ‘choose’ even if I don’t agree with another’s opinion. As far as religion, I always felt that no one has a right to force their religious beliefs on someone else other than sharing what their beliefs are, as in discussing it with another. Even if you don’t agree with UptownNY’s views on Christianity, it’s his right to feel his way about it. If an individual chooses to follow a different path,(again even if I don’t agree) then who am I to tell them not to? It’s their life, not mine. No one should have that kind of control over another. There’s good and bad in the world. If a situation affected one’s life or they don’t feel comfortable embracing it, then they have a right to question it or decide to embrace or refuse to have it in their lives. That’s not my decision. I can’t walk in the shoes of another unless we experienced the exact or similar situation. Anyway, this discussion on Christianity could go on forever, because everyone will have their own opinions on it, and no opinion is absolute. So with that being said, it’s best to agree to disagree on this. Thanks for sharing your views on it. [Edited 3/31/21 5:02am]

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Absolutely. I respect UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.

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Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.

You have nothing to apologise for....you've done nothing to me.

I was raised in the church...my late mother's family are southern baptists from North Carolina. I have several aunts, uncles & cousins who are ministers. My godfather was one of the head ministers at Mt. Moriah Baptist Church in Harlem before he passed in 1974. Plus my brother and I attended catholic school, so we were bombarded with everything (including images of a blond-haired, blue-eyed jesus & being told 'god' was some old white man in the sky with a big check book listing your good and bad deeds). I actually believed that stuff as a kid....but, the more I studied history(especially the history of black folks all over the world) and science, I came to the conclusion that ALL these man-made religions (and their god concepts) are a joke, and that we're being played. That was nearly 40 years ago, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made....felt like my mind became 'free'. I mean, how can any reasonable person believe the earth/universe is only several thousand years old?

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Reply #211 posted 04/02/21 5:13pm

IanRG

uPtoWnNY said:

IanRG said:

.

Absolutely. I respect UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.

.

Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.

You have nothing to apologise for....you've done nothing to me.

...

I mean, how can any reasonable person believe the earth/universe is only several thousand years old?

.

As a practicing Christian, I don't. This is not taught in most Christian Schools and only held by fundamentalists.

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Reply #212 posted 04/02/21 5:32pm

RJOrion

IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:


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Facing the truth of sins of the past (and still by some today) is the only way to correct and move on from these.


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In this it is important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. So much of the Civil Rights movement's successes are on the backs of Christian Black Americans. To choose to turn from your religion just because of the actions of white supremacists et al seems short sighted and if the (non- white supremacist) Christian understanding of God is correct, self defeating. In the circumstance from IptownNY's second quote: to avoid sharing Heaven with the repentent former white supremacists, it risks hell with unrepentent ones.



I believe in one’s right to ‘choose’ even if I don’t agree with another’s opinion. As far as religion, I always felt that no one has a right to force their religious beliefs on someone else other than sharing what their beliefs are, as in discussing it with another. Even if you don’t agree with UptownNY’s views on Christianity, it’s his right to feel his way about it. If an individual chooses to follow a different path,(again even if I don’t agree) then who am I to tell them not to? It’s their life, not mine. No one should have that kind of control over another. There’s good and bad in the world. If a situation affected one’s life or they don’t feel comfortable embracing it, then they have a right to question it or decide to embrace or refuse to have it in their lives. That’s not my decision. I can’t walk in the shoes of another unless we experienced the exact or similar situation. Anyway, this discussion on Christianity could go on forever, because everyone will have their own opinions on it, and no opinion is absolute. So with that being said, it’s best to agree to disagree on this. Thanks for sharing your views on it. [Edited 3/31/21 5:02am]

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Absolutely. I respect UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.


.


Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.




you contradict yourself (cofusion) and are such a hypocrite, youre blind to your own folly...in one paragraph you blabber on about respecting peoples personal choices and the need to "agree to disagree"... and then, in the VERY NEXT sentence, you thank someone for "rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories"...youve done that this this entire thread...LOL...youre just a ball of confusion and your long winded and circular replies fully expose your lack of linear thinking...you should really stop..for your own good...because youre neither a good representative, nor spokesperson, for the "religion" you claim..good lord almighty this is too easy
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Reply #213 posted 04/02/21 5:39pm

RJOrion

a "practicing Christian"?...what are THOSE?!..."we talmbout PRACTICE!?"...

well you definitely need more practice...or maybe you should just get out of the game altogether...because your "team" is losing badly...in the name of Jesus
[Edited 4/2/21 17:39pm]
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Reply #214 posted 04/02/21 5:44pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

Absolutely. I respect UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.

.

Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.

you contradict yourself (cofusion) and are such a hypocrite, youre blind to your own folly...in one paragraph you blabber on about respecting peoples personal choices and the need to "agree to disagree"... and then, in the VERY NEXT sentence, you thank someone for "rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories"...youve done that this this entire thread...LOL...youre just a ball of confusion and your long winded and circular replies fully expose your lack of linear thinking...you should really stop..for your own good...because youre neither a good representative, nor spokesperson, for the "religion" you claim..good lord almighty this is too easy

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Personal attacks shame you, especially when you only make them to hide that you never could answer the factual errors you made to support your conspiracy theories.

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I respect UpTown's personal choice, 2Elijah's personal choice, toejam's personal choice and everyone else's on their beliefs. I do not respect lies and personal attacks to cover fabrications and factual errors. I am not required to respect the errors you have made and failed to address except by posts like this.

.

Let it go - you have shown to be wrong, learn and move on.

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Reply #215 posted 04/02/21 5:47pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

a "practicing Christian"?...what are THOSE?!..."we talmbout PRACTICE!?"... well you definitely need more practice...or maybe you should just get out of the game altogether...because your "team" is losing badly...in the name of Jesus [Edited 4/2/21 17:39pm]

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More personal attacks, more shame on you.

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Please stop obsessing.

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Reply #216 posted 04/02/21 6:06pm

RJOrion

IanRG said:



RJOrion said:


a "practicing Christian"?...what are THOSE?!..."we talmbout PRACTICE!?"... well you definitely need more practice...or maybe you should just get out of the game altogether...because your "team" is losing badly...in the name of Jesus [Edited 4/2/21 17:39pm]

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More personal attacks, more shame on you.


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Please stop obsessing.





nah Sir (i think) no personal attack at all...remember YOU egged me on to participate when i wanted to watch the Knicks game a couple pages back, and YOU wanted to "obsess" about my math, and homynyms and synonyms and sol/soul/soul and whatnot...well im here for it now...lets talk, my friend...its all love, too...we can even "agree to disagree" when your done decoding the aforementioned "conspiracy theories"...dont contradict the courage and vitriol you displayed earlier in the thread...here's an olive branch⚘...lets practice together cool
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Reply #217 posted 04/02/21 6:24pm

RJOrion

IanRG said:



RJOrion said:


IanRG said:


.


Absolutely. I respect4 UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.


.


Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.



you contradict yourself (cofusion) and are such a hypocrite, youre blind to your own folly...in one paragraph you blabber on about respecting peoples personal choices and the need to "agree to disagree"... and then, in the VERY NEXT sentence, you thank someone for "rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories"...youve done that this this entire thread...LOL...youre just a ball of confusion and your long winded and circular replies fully expose your lack of linear thinking...you should really stop..for your own good...because youre neither a good representative, nor spokesperson, for the "religion" you claim..good lord almighty this is too easy

.


Personal attacks shame you, especially when you only make them to hide that you never could answer the factual errors you made to support your conspiracy theories.


.


I respect UpTown's personal choice, 2Elijah's personal choice, toejam's personal choice and everyone else's on their beliefs. I do not respect lies and personal attacks to cover fabrications and factual errors. I am not required to respect the errors you have made and failed to address except by posts like this.


.


Let it go - you have shown to be wrong, learn and move on.



you can spin it any way you want...bottom line is that the thread is about "Blacks Walking Away From Christianity", but you cant even stay on track as we walk away...youre going in circles from one person to the next (preaching needlessly to almost everybody) getting in and out of your feelings and switching up your whole flow depending on whom it is youre replying to..if you cant deal with these perceived "personal attacks", why dont you just in your cown confused words, "agree to disagree" and leave it alone?...because you cant... thats why...im actually trying to help YOU out... if you consider this a "personal attack", id hate for you to actually suffer a real personal attack...toughen up, Scrappy...its a cold world....only the strong survive
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Reply #218 posted 04/02/21 10:55pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

More personal attacks, more shame on you.

.

Please stop obsessing.

nah Sir (i think) no personal attack at all...remember YOU egged me on to participate when i wanted to watch the Knicks game a couple pages back, and YOU wanted to "obsess" about my math, and homynyms and synonyms and sol/soul/soul and whatnot...well im here for it now...lets talk, my friend...its all love, too...we can even "agree to disagree" when your done decoding the aforementioned "conspiracy theories"...dont contradict the courage and vitriol you displayed earlier in the thread...here's an olive branch⚘...lets practice together cool

.

I still have the same contempt for a person that only attacks when they know they were caught out in a beginner's error but cannot admit it. You never could admit that lied when you "rounded" 292 to 400 - this was not just a maths error, it was your inability to admit you made an error. You never could admit that son, sun and soul are not Latin derived words but are Germanic derived words in a Germanic derived language that has foreign borrowed words (like every other language). You never could find a source that says English is a Latin derived language and you lied that you were taught this at school. You never could admit that I only said homonyms (note the spelling) and you got it wrong by saying I said synonyms. But you still bluster, accuse and obsess. This is not just an agree to disagree on an opinion or a belief - It is that you cannot ever admit when you are wrong and you instead lie and attack to cover your ass.

.

You see the thing is only conspiracy theorists that think Christians confuse sun and son because it is the theory falls flat on its face when analysed against logic and facts. This is different from disagreeing on beliefs where either party may be right or wrong - you are provably wrong: Outside of the Germanic languages, there is not a homonymous relationship between the pronunciation of the Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic or Egyptian words for son and sun. There never was any synonymous relationship between these words in English, Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic or Eqyptian. I offer you the olive branch of agreeing on that there is no confusion between these words.

[Edited 4/3/21 4:32am]

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Reply #219 posted 04/02/21 10:58pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

Personal attacks shame you, especially when you only make them to hide that you never could answer the factual errors you made to support your conspiracy theories.

.

I respect UpTown's personal choice, 2Elijah's personal choice, toejam's personal choice and everyone else's on their beliefs. I do not respect lies and personal attacks to cover fabrications and factual errors. I am not required to respect the errors you have made and failed to address except by posts like this.

.

Let it go - you have shown to be wrong, learn and move on.

you can spin it any way you want...bottom line is that the thread is about "Blacks Walking Away From Christianity", but you cant even stay on track as we walk away...youre going in circles from one person to the next (preaching needlessly to almost everybody) getting in and out of your feelings and switching up your whole flow depending on whom it is youre replying to..if you cant deal with these perceived "personal attacks", why dont you just in your cown confused words, "agree to disagree" and leave it alone?...because you cant... thats why...im actually trying to help YOU out... if you consider this a "personal attack", id hate for you to actually suffer a real personal attack...toughen up, Scrappy...its a cold world....only the strong survive

.

If you feel you are being treated differently from everyone else, you should consider why. You should consider the possibility that attacking to cover your ass instead of discussing like an adult could be the reason.

[Edited 4/3/21 4:30am]

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Reply #220 posted 04/03/21 5:05am

CherryMoon57

avatar

2elijah said:

There’s a difference between walking away from any church because one is a harassed by someone attending that same church vs someone walking away from Christianity, which the latter is what the OP’s thread is about. [Edited 4/2/21 11:34am]

There was a connection with the thread's topic actually. It was: let's not confuse the offense with the religion or the race. I thought it was pretty obvious from the opening sentence of my post (#203). My main point being that if there is a church out there that either practices, teaches or even turns a blind eye to things that are antithetical to the teachings of the Bible, I would certainly advocate leaving that particular church. But I think it would be wrong to turn away from what Christianity has to offer as a whole just because of these offenders. That would be like me becoming a racist just because of my bad experience with that one church member. I hope this helps you understand my original post better.

[Edited 4/3/21 6:32am]

Life Matters
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Reply #221 posted 04/03/21 6:20am

CherryMoon57

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Cherrymoon, check out James Cone, the Cross and the Lynching Tree. He compares treatment of blacks to crucifixion.

I will look it up, thanks.

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Reply #222 posted 04/03/21 7:08am

2elijah

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:



2elijah said:


There’s a difference between walking away from any church because one is a harassed by someone attending that same church vs someone walking away from Christianity, which the latter is what the OP’s thread is about. [Edited 4/2/21 11:34am]


There was a connection with the thread's topic actually. It was: let's not confuse the offense with the religion or the race. I thought it was pretty obvious from the opening sentence of my post (#203). My main point was that if there is a church out there that either practices, teaches or even turns a blind eye to things that are antithetical to the teachings of the Bible, I would certainly advocate leaving that particular church. And yes, I know there are racist congregations too. But Jesus never taught racism.

[Edited 4/3/21 6:10am]


In your earlier post, you mentioned the race of someone that harassed you, and that you left the church for that reason. Question was asked what did your post have to do with Blacks leaving Christianity? Didn’t make any sense.

You now mention if there are churches that turn a blind eye to the antiethical teachings of Christianity, you would leave that church too, which is understandable, and a different situation altogether, but on the topic of the thread, (I can’t sissy for all Black Americans) about the reason some Black Americans choose to leave Black churches that preach/teach Christianity, is that they’re either not comfortable with the teachings of Christianity, because of how it was used to manipulate many generations of Blacks in this country, and how many are brainwashed about Jesus being White, which has always been in question, and for many other reasons. Doesn’t matter if you agree or not with their decision to walk away from it, because it’s their personal decision.

You seem to be offended that some here don’t feel the same way about Christianity as you, but you have no authority to tell them how they should feel about it. It seems at times, you’re letting your ego get in the way of opposing opinions on the topic, but one choosing to embrace Christianity is a personal choice, such as yours is.

I’m glad you at least admitted you are aware racism exists within many congregations, especially those that used/use Christianity (in the past and in some present-day situations throughout the world) as a manipulated, fear tactic, and forced/force it upon many who are easy targets to persuade. Yes there are many Black Americans who follow Christianity today, because since the days of slavery, it’s been passed down to their families, generation after generation.
[Edited 4/3/21 7:20am]
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Reply #223 posted 04/03/21 10:09am

CherryMoon57

avatar

2elijah said:

CherryMoon57 said:

There was a connection with the thread's topic actually. It was: let's not confuse the offense with the religion or the race. I thought it was pretty obvious from the opening sentence of my post (#203). My main point was that if there is a church out there that either practices, teaches or even turns a blind eye to things that are antithetical to the teachings of the Bible, I would certainly advocate leaving that particular church. And yes, I know there are racist congregations too. But Jesus never taught racism.

[Edited 4/3/21 6:10am]

In your earlier post, you mentioned the race of someone that harassed you, and that you left the church for that reason. Question was asked what did your post have to do with Blacks leaving Christianity? Didn’t make any sense. You now mention if there are churches that turn a blind eye to the antiethical teachings of Christianity, you would leave that church too, which is understandable, and a different situation altogether, but on the topic of the thread, (I can’t sissy for all Black Americans) about the reason some Black Americans choose to leave Black churches that preach/teach Christianity, is that they’re either not comfortable with the teachings of Christianity, because of how it was used to manipulate many generations of Blacks in this country, and how many are brainwashed about Jesus being White, which has always been in question, and for many other reasons. Doesn’t matter if you agree or not with their decision to walk away from it, because it’s their personal decision. You seem to be offended that some here don’t feel the same way about Christianity as you, but you have no authority to tell them how they should feel about it. It seems at times, you’re letting your ego get in the way of opposing opinions on the topic, but one choosing to embrace Christianity is a personal choice, such as yours is. I’m glad you at least admitted you are aware racism exists within many congregations, especially those that used/use Christianity (in the past and in some present-day situations throughout the world) as a manipulated, fear tactic, and forced/force it upon many who are easy targets to persuade. Yes there are many Black Americans who follow Christianity today, because since the days of slavery, it’s been passed down to their families, generation after generation. [Edited 4/3/21 7:20am]


I am not offended by anything on here Elijah. This is a discussion where everything is freely discussed by all of us. That means your opinion, my opinion, others' opinions etc. And based on what you've described, I think I don't agree with the lats part of your post and your idea that for the most part black americans who are christian today are so because they just followed the family tradition.

To me, and tell me if I am wrong here, this implies that you think they have not gone towards Christianity themselves or by personal choice, and that it has been imposed to them. Am I correct in my understanding of your views? You see, for me christianity was my own personal choice (I come from a non-religious family), which was followed by a deeply enlightening and irreversible spiritual experience.

Are you saying that most black americans generally do not experience this kind of spirituality nor choose to go towards christianity of their own accord? That they have only been 'manipulated' towards it?

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Reply #224 posted 04/03/21 10:13am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Practice makes perfect.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #225 posted 04/03/21 11:33am

2elijah

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:



2elijah said:


CherryMoon57 said:



There was a connection with the thread's topic actually. It was: let's not confuse the offense with the religion or the race. I thought it was pretty obvious from the opening sentence of my post (#203). My main point was that if there is a church out there that either practices, teaches or even turns a blind eye to things that are antithetical to the teachings of the Bible, I would certainly advocate leaving that particular church. And yes, I know there are racist congregations too. But Jesus never taught racism.


[Edited 4/3/21 6:10am]



In your earlier post, you mentioned the race of someone that harassed you, and that you left the church for that reason. Question was asked what did your post have to do with Blacks leaving Christianity? Didn’t make any sense. You now mention if there are churches that turn a blind eye to the antiethical teachings of Christianity, you would leave that church too, which is understandable, and a different situation altogether, but on the topic of the thread, (I can’t sissy for all Black Americans) about the reason some Black Americans choose to leave Black churches that preach/teach Christianity, is that they’re either not comfortable with the teachings of Christianity, because of how it was used to manipulate many generations of Blacks in this country, and how many are brainwashed about Jesus being White, which has always been in question, and for many other reasons. Doesn’t matter if you agree or not with their decision to walk away from it, because it’s their personal decision. You seem to be offended that some here don’t feel the same way about Christianity as you, but you have no authority to tell them how they should feel about it. It seems at times, you’re letting your ego get in the way of opposing opinions on the topic, but one choosing to embrace Christianity is a personal choice, such as yours is. I’m glad you at least admitted you are aware racism exists within many congregations, especially those that used/use Christianity (in the past and in some present-day situations throughout the world) as a manipulated, fear tactic, and forced/force it upon many who are easy targets to persuade. Yes there are many Black Americans who follow Christianity today, because since the days of slavery, it’s been passed down to their families, generation after generation. [Edited 4/3/21 7:20am]


I am not offended by anything on here Elijah. This is a discussion where everything is freely discussed by all of us. That means your opinion, my opinion, others' opinions etc. And based on what you've described, I think I don't agree with the lats part of your post and your idea that for the most part black americans who are christian today are so because they just followed the family tradition.

To me, and tell me if I am wrong here, this implies that you think they have not gone towards Christianity themselves or by personal choice, and that it has been imposed to them. Am I correct in my understanding of your views? You see, for me christianity was my own personal choice (I come from a non-religious family), which was followed by a deeply enlightening and irreversible spiritual experience.

Are you saying that most black americans generally do not experience this kind of spirituality nor choose to go towards christianity of their own accord? That they have only been 'manipulated' towards it?



Lol, Who said Black Americans, as ‘individuals’ don’t experience spirituality??? falloff Who said, as ‘individuals’ they don’t make a personal choice to embrace Christianity?

Did you ‘actually’ read the last part of my post, where I specifically stated ‘many’ (didn’t say ‘all) Black Americans today, follow family traditions of practicing Christianity. I know many, because I have family members who have done that, as well as friends/acquaintances — follow Christianity/attend church services, because their great grands/grands/and parents did it, and it became part of their family tradition. I know many who have discussed/asked questions why many Black Americans choose to embrace Christianity, when historically Christianity was used to manipulate enslaved Blacks, and been told Jesus was a White man, yet where was/is the proof of that? Have you seen Jesus to prove that?

I’ll say it again, as stated in my ‘previous posts’. One who chooses to embrace/follow Christianity is one’s ‘personal choice, as neither you nor I have the authority to tell anyone whether they can or not.

On the other hand, regardless if you’re uncomfortable with the fact that yes, Christianity has been used to manipulate many in the Black community, from the days of slavery, and even in present day, well that’s not a lie. A number of posters on this thread have voiced the same, so you’re welcome to contest it with them as well. UptownNY gives a good explanation as to how he feels about it, and I respect him for doing so. Doesn’t mean everyone will agree, but it’s his views.

If you want to learn/question Black Americans about their ‘individual’ views about Christianity, you will get various opinions, and you have to be willing to have an open mind, because not everyone will agree with your views on the topic. Good luck!👍🏽
[Edited 4/3/21 11:36am]
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Reply #226 posted 04/03/21 12:11pm

CherryMoon57

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2elijah said:

CherryMoon57 said:


I am not offended by anything on here Elijah. This is a discussion where everything is freely discussed by all of us. That means your opinion, my opinion, others' opinions etc. And based on what you've described, I think I don't agree with the lats part of your post and your idea that for the most part black americans who are christian today are so because they just followed the family tradition.

To me, and tell me if I am wrong here, this implies that you think they have not gone towards Christianity themselves or by personal choice, and that it has been imposed to them. Am I correct in my understanding of your views? You see, for me christianity was my own personal choice (I come from a non-religious family), which was followed by a deeply enlightening and irreversible spiritual experience.

Are you saying that most black americans generally do not experience this kind of spirituality nor choose to go towards christianity of their own accord? That they have only been 'manipulated' towards it?

Lol, Who said Black Americans, as ‘individuals’ don’t experience spirituality??? falloff Who said, as ‘individuals’ they don’t make a personal choice to embrace Christianity? Did you ‘actually’ read the last part of my post, where I specifically stated ‘many’ (didn’t say ‘all) Black Americans today, follow family traditions of practicing Christianity. I know many, because I have family members who have done that, as well as friends/acquaintances — follow Christianity/attend church services, because their great grands/grands/and parents did it, and it became part of their family tradition. I know many who have discussed/asked questions why many Black Americans choose to embrace Christianity, when historically Christianity was used to manipulate enslaved Blacks, and been told Jesus was a White man, yet where was/is the proof of that? Have you seen Jesus to prove that? I’ll say it again, as stated in my ‘previous posts’. One who chooses to embrace/follow Christianity is one’s ‘personal choice, as neither you nor I have the authority to tell anyone whether they can or not. On the other hand, regardless if you’re uncomfortable with the fact that yes, Christianity has been used to manipulate many in the Black community, from the days of slavery, and even in present day, well that’s not a lie. A number of posters on this thread have voiced the same, so you’re welcome to contest it with them as well. UptownNY gives a good explanation as to how he feels about it, and I respect him for doing so. Doesn’t mean everyone will agree, but it’s his views. If you want to learn/question Black Americans about their ‘individual’ views about Christianity, you will get various opinions, and you have to be willing to have an open mind, because not everyone will agree with your views on the topic. Good luck!👍🏽 [Edited 4/3/21 11:36am]


About the first part of your post that's no different from anyone from any country attending any religion by tradition (as many did in my hometown with Catholicism) and has nothing to do with skin colour, nationality or origin. Also many in Europe have actually questioned the crusades and disagree with them but still embrace Christianity because they understand that you don't have to embrace or accept historical errors to embrace a spiritual life.

As for Jesus being white, I have attended many churches in my life but was never told specifically that Jesus was white. I know the many different representation of Christ do vary depending on the countries and cultures and that the Protestants don't like to represent Him at all. So I have yet to verify this information for myself. Have you ever heard this stated as fact by any Christian person you have met?

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Reply #227 posted 04/03/21 2:46pm

2elijah

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CherryMoon57 said:



2elijah said:


CherryMoon57 said:



I am not offended by anything on here Elijah. This is a discussion where everything is freely discussed by all of us. That means your opinion, my opinion, others' opinions etc. And based on what you've described, I think I don't agree with the lats part of your post and your idea that for the most part black americans who are christian today are so because they just followed the family tradition.

To me, and tell me if I am wrong here, this implies that you think they have not gone towards Christianity themselves or by personal choice, and that it has been imposed to them. Am I correct in my understanding of your views? You see, for me christianity was my own personal choice (I come from a non-religious family), which was followed by a deeply enlightening and irreversible spiritual experience.

Are you saying that most black americans generally do not experience this kind of spirituality nor choose to go towards christianity of their own accord? That they have only been 'manipulated' towards it?



Lol, Who said Black Americans, as ‘individuals’ don’t experience spirituality??? falloff Who said, as ‘individuals’ they don’t make a personal choice to embrace Christianity? Did you ‘actually’ read the last part of my post, where I specifically stated ‘many’ (didn’t say ‘all) Black Americans today, follow family traditions of practicing Christianity. I know many, because I have family members who have done that, as well as friends/acquaintances — follow Christianity/attend church services, because their great grands/grands/and parents did it, and it became part of their family tradition. I know many who have discussed/asked questions why many Black Americans choose to embrace Christianity, when historically Christianity was used to manipulate enslaved Blacks, and been told Jesus was a White man, yet where was/is the proof of that? Have you seen Jesus to prove that? I’ll say it again, as stated in my ‘previous posts’. One who chooses to embrace/follow Christianity is one’s ‘personal choice, as neither you nor I have the authority to tell anyone whether they can or not. On the other hand, regardless if you’re uncomfortable with the fact that yes, Christianity has been used to manipulate many in the Black community, from the days of slavery, and even in present day, well that’s not a lie. A number of posters on this thread have voiced the same, so you’re welcome to contest it with them as well. UptownNY gives a good explanation as to how he feels about it, and I respect him for doing so. Doesn’t mean everyone will agree, but it’s his views. If you want to learn/question Black Americans about their ‘individual’ views about Christianity, you will get various opinions, and you have to be willing to have an open mind, because not everyone will agree with your views on the topic. Good luck!👍🏽 [Edited 4/3/21 11:36am]


About the first part of your post that's no different from anyone from any country attending any religion by tradition (as many did in my hometown with Catholicism) and has nothing to do with skin colour, nationality or origin. Also many in Europe have actually questioned the crusades and disagree with them but still embrace Christianity because they understand that you don't have to embrace or accept historical errors to embrace a spiritual life.

As for Jesus being white, I have attended many churches in my life but was never told specifically that Jesus was white. I know the many different representation of Christ do vary depending on the countries and cultures and that the Protestants don't like to represent Him at all. So I have yet to verify this information for myself. Have you ever heard this stated as fact by any Christian person you have met?


It’s pointless discussing this topic with you, about ‘many’ Black Americans who choose not to embrace Christianity. You don’t respect the reasons given, and you just roll over the explanations and reasons, as explained not only by me, UptownNY, but others as well. You only want to hear what you want to hear, not the reasons/explanations by those from the community the topic of the article is focused on.

Answer to your last question is ‘yes’, I’ve heard many Christians claim that Jesus is White, and as mentioned in my last post, I said ‘Where is the proof of that?’ I witnessed pictures of a White Jesus in relatives’/friends’homes. I’ve had Christians tell me Jesus is White, and I requested proof, but they couldn’t prove it. If you really want to comprehend or actually learn why many Black Americans have chosen to not accept Christianity, you don’t have to agree, but at least be be willing to ‘listen’ to the explanations given, in order to ‘comprehend’ their reasons why, because your views are not theirs. If one chooses to embrace it, fine, but if one chooses not to, then it’s their right, and personal choice, whatever their reasons is.

With that being said, this ends my discussion with you on this topic. Enjoy your day. sun
[Edited 4/3/21 14:54pm]
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Reply #228 posted 04/03/21 3:21pm

CherryMoon57

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2elijah said:

CherryMoon57 said:


About the first part of your post that's no different from anyone from any country attending any religion by tradition (as many did in my hometown with Catholicism) and has nothing to do with skin colour, nationality or origin. Also many in Europe have actually questioned the crusades and disagree with them but still embrace Christianity because they understand that you don't have to embrace or accept historical errors to embrace a spiritual life.

As for Jesus being white, I have attended many churches in my life but was never told specifically that Jesus was white. I know the many different representation of Christ do vary depending on the countries and cultures and that the Protestants don't like to represent Him at all. So I have yet to verify this information for myself. Have you ever heard this stated as fact by any Christian person you have met?

It’s pointless discussing this topic with you, about ‘many’ Black Americans who choose not to embrace Christianity. You don’t respect the reasons given, and just you just roll over the explanations and reasons, as explained not only by me, UptownNY, but others as well. You only want to hear what you want to hear, not the reasons/explanations by those from the community the topic of the article is focused on. Answer to your last question is ‘yes’, I’ve heard many Christians claim that Jesus is White, and as mentioned in my last post, I said ‘Where is the proof of that?’ I witnessed pictures of a White Jesus in relatives’/friends’homes. I’ve had Christians tell me Jesus is White, and I requested proof, but they couldn’t prove it. If you really want to comprehend or actually learn why many Black Americans have chosen to not accept Christianity, you don’t have to agree, but at least be be willing to ‘listen’ to the explanations given, in order to ‘comprehend’ their reasons why, because your views are not theirs. If one chooses to embrace it, fine, but if one chooses not to, then it’s their right, and personal choice, whatever their reasons is. With that being said, this ends my discussion with you on this topic. Enjoy your day. sun

If no 'dicussion' is allowed around the topic, or only one side of the argument allowed to discuss their ideas, then why even have a thread about it? Since I am a Christian and the topic also concerns Christianity, I thought I could at least bring a different standpoint to the debate. But that's clearly not the case. To reassure you, I have listened and I understand the reasons proposed. I just hope that whoever decides to opt out of their own salvation fully comprehends what they are doing and why, that is all. I hope you enjoy your day too (it's night time here btw).

Life Matters
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Reply #229 posted 04/03/21 3:48pm

2elijah

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uPtoWnNY said:



IanRG said:




2elijah said:


IanRG said: I believe in one’s right to ‘choose’ even if I don’t agree with another’s opinion. As far as religion, I always felt that no one has a right to force their religious beliefs on someone else other than sharing what their beliefs are, as in discussing it with another. Even if you don’t agree with UptownNY’s views on Christianity, it’s his right to feel his way about it. If an individual chooses to follow a different path,(again even if I don’t agree) then who am I to tell them not to? It’s their life, not mine. No one should have that kind of control over another. There’s good and bad in the world. If a situation affected one’s life or they don’t feel comfortable embracing it, then they have a right to question it or decide to embrace or refuse to have it in their lives. That’s not my decision. I can’t walk in the shoes of another unless we experienced the exact or similar situation. Anyway, this discussion on Christianity could go on forever, because everyone will have their own opinions on it, and no opinion is absolute. So with that being said, it’s best to agree to disagree on this. Thanks for sharing your views on it. [Edited 3/31/21 5:02am]

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Absolutely. I respect UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.


.


Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.




You have nothing to apologise for....you've done nothing to me.



I was raised in the church...my late mother's family are southern baptists from North Carolina. I have several aunts, uncles & cousins who are ministers. My godfather was one of the head ministers at Mt. Moriah Baptist Church in Harlem before he passed in 1974. Plus my brother and I attended catholic school, so we were bombarded with everything (including images of a blond-haired, blue-eyed jesus & being told 'god' was some old white man in the sky with a big check book listing your good and bad deeds). I actually believed that stuff as a kid....but, the more I studied history(especially the history of black folks all over the world) and science, I came to the conclusion that ALL these man-made religions (and their god concepts) are a joke, and that we're being played. That was nearly 40 years ago, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made....felt like my mind became 'free'. I mean, how can any reasonable person believe the earth/universe is only several thousand years old?




@ bolded part. Yes, experienced seeing images of a White Jesus in various relatives/friends’ homes, also throughout many books/the media for years. It’s good for people to question religion, no matter what faith they were raised to believe in. I remember a play in NYC, where attendees protested because a Black actor played the role of Jesus, and many were angry about it, because they demanded Jesus was White. Yet no proof of what his race has ever been, just assumptions. Read narratives from former slaves, who tell of Christianity being forced on them.
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Reply #230 posted 04/03/21 3:49pm

PennyPurple

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Jesus is from the Middle East, he is not white.

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Reply #231 posted 04/03/21 4:02pm

IanRG

Given this is a Prince site and Prince was a deeply religious and spiritual Christian with a strong stance against both doing things just because it just tradition and against the impact of slavers and white supremacists on Black people in the USA, it would have been interesting to hear from a Black Christian fan's opinion. After all, whilst some are walking away, the majority are not and it cannot be just because of tradition etc.

.

I know there are people that have WRONGLY said Jesus was white - to the point that it is within (most of) our lifetimes that the Mormon church ceased to have members of their Black congregation seeking to pray themselves white. I also know that this is not the normal position of most Churches and has not been for a long time. I personally have only ever been taught that Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew from Judea and would have looked like a local. I have seen Churches where Jesus looks like an Indigenous Australian, Mongolian and other Asians. I have a statuette of Madonna and Child on my desk at work - It is one the Black Madonnas. These were Byzantine (400 to 1450), Eqyptian, Ethiopian, Middle Eastern etc (including the city formerly known as Nicea). They were also popular in Italy in the late Medieval period. Some it was the colour of the stone, some it is as result of aging but many were made deliberately black.

.

[Edited 4/3/21 19:41pm]

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Reply #232 posted 04/03/21 7:06pm

2elijah

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IanRG said:

Given this is a Prince site and Prince was a deeply religious and spiritual Christian with a strong stance against both doing things just because it just tradition and against the impact of slavers and white supremacists on Black people in the USA, it would have been interesting to hear from a Black Christian fan's opinion. After all, whislt some are walking away, the majority are ny and it cannot be just because of tradition etc.


.


I know there are people that have WRONGLY said Jesus was white - to the point that it is within (most of) our lifetimes that the Mormon church ceased to have members of their Black congregation seeking to pray themselves white. I also know that this is not the normal position of most Churches and has not been for a long time. I personally have only ever been taught that Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew from Judea and would have looked like a local. I have seen Churches where Jesus looks like an Indigenous Australian, Mongolian and other Asians. I have a statuette of Madonna and Child on my desk at work - It is one the Black Madonnas. These were Byzantine (400 to 1450), Eqyptian, Ethiopian, Middle Eastern etc (including the city formerly known as Nicea). They were also popular in Italy in the late Medieval period. Some it was the colour of the stone, some it is as result of aging but many were made deliberately black.


.



Ian that’s fine, but speaking from my experience as an African American female, in regards to topic of thread, and who has grown up around many Black families, who are Christians and followed their recent ancestors’ ‘tradition’ of embracing Christianity, attending church services.

Maybe you and others don’t get what I mean about following one’s ancestors’ or family’s traditions, and keeping certain things ‘ in the family’ by passing it down from one generation to another. Had many discussions over the years with friends that left the church altogether, along with their Christian beliefs, and specifically told me they had embraced Christianity, church, because their grandparents/parents did, but as they got older and questioned it, decided it just wasn’t for them. Not all do that, but it is a reality, whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, as no one is forced to agree.

One embracing Christianity is one’s personal choice, and those who choose not to, well that’s their right/choice as well. I respect both decisions.
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Reply #233 posted 04/03/21 7:17pm

2elijah

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PennyPurple said:

Jesus is from the Middle East, he is not white.


Yes Penny, heard that too.

Growing up, there were many images of a ‘White Jesus’. This is long article that centers around a popular painting of ‘Jesus’, that became known worldwide, and called the ‘Head of Christ’. Article is from last June, 2020.

https://www.washingtonpos...und-world/

Here’s a different article, (from 2018) stating Jesus is a brown-skinned, Middle Eastern Jew.

https://theconversation.c...ters-91230

Just posted these articles, re: what was mentioned in my previous posts, and as well as, those who pointed out the many images of Jesus depicted as White, as well as, images seen in some Black churches with him depicted as such.
[Edited 4/3/21 19:32pm]
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Reply #234 posted 04/03/21 7:57pm

IanRG

2elijah said:

IanRG said:

Given this is a Prince site and Prince was a deeply religious and spiritual Christian with a strong stance against both doing things just because it just tradition and against the impact of slavers and white supremacists on Black people in the USA, it would have been interesting to hear from a Black Christian fan's opinion. After all, whislt some are walking away, the majority are ny and it cannot be just because of tradition etc.

.

I know there are people that have WRONGLY said Jesus was white - to the point that it is within (most of) our lifetimes that the Mormon church ceased to have members of their Black congregation seeking to pray themselves white. I also know that this is not the normal position of most Churches and has not been for a long time. I personally have only ever been taught that Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew from Judea and would have looked like a local. I have seen Churches where Jesus looks like an Indigenous Australian, Mongolian and other Asians. I have a statuette of Madonna and Child on my desk at work - It is one the Black Madonnas. These were Byzantine (400 to 1450), Eqyptian, Ethiopian, Middle Eastern etc (including the city formerly known as Nicea). They were also popular in Italy in the late Medieval period. Some it was the colour of the stone, some it is as result of aging but many were made deliberately black.

.

Ian that’s fine, but speaking from my experience as an African American female, in regards to topic of thread, and who has grown up around many Black families, who are Christians and followed their recent ancestors’ ‘tradition’ of embracing Christianity, attending church services. Maybe you and others don’t get what I mean about following one’s ancestors’ or family’s traditions, and keeping certain things ‘ in the family’ by passing it down from one generation to another. Had many discussions over the years with friends that left the church altogether, along with their Christian beliefs, and specifically told me they had embraced Christianity, church, because their grandparents/parents did, but as they got older and questioned it, decided it just wasn’t for them. Not all do that, but it is a reality, whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, as no one is forced to agree. One embracing Christianity is one’s personal choice, and those who choose not to, well that’s their right/choice as well. I respect both decisions.

.

In no way am I denying this. As I said previously everyone must and does question their beliefs, just as you say, as they get older. Because it is a personal choice many will choose to stay and many will choose not to stay.

.

Those who choose to stay are not just doing this because of tradition, they are doing it for multiple reasons including the inspiration of the greats of the US Civil Rights movement who did this as part of their Christian faith and beliefs.

.

Those who choose to leave are not just doing it because of the lies and deceptions of the slavers and those who followed as white supremacists etc - Although this and other evils done in the name of religion are perfectly justifiable reasons. Many will have left for the same reasons as everyone else: their faith did not develop from a childhood Christian upbringing to their own adult Christian belief. They, by their right and choice, developed different adult beliefs instead. I respect both decisions.

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Reply #235 posted 04/03/21 10:43pm

Graycap23

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Folks having an open discussion about the race of a "man" who never existed.

eek

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #236 posted 04/04/21 7:12am

2elijah

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IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:

Given this is a Prince site and Prince was a deeply religious and spiritual Christian with a strong stance against both doing things just because it just tradition and against the impact of slavers and white supremacists on Black people in the USA, it would have been interesting to hear from a Black Christian fan's opinion. After all, whislt some are walking away, the majority are ny and it cannot be just because of tradition etc.


.


I know there are people that have WRONGLY said Jesus was white - to the point that it is within (most of) our lifetimes that the Mormon church ceased to have members of their Black congregation seeking to pray themselves white. I also know that this is not the normal position of most Churches and has not been for a long time. I personally have only ever been taught that Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew from Judea and would have looked like a local. I have seen Churches where Jesus looks like an Indigenous Australian, Mongolian and other Asians. I have a statuette of Madonna and Child on my desk at work - It is one the Black Madonnas. These were Byzantine (400 to 1450), Eqyptian, Ethiopian, Middle Eastern etc (including the city formerly known as Nicea). They were also popular in Italy in the late Medieval period. Some it was the colour of the stone, some it is as result of aging but many were made deliberately black.


.




Ian that’s fine, but speaking from my experience as an African American female, in regards to topic of thread, and who has grown up around many Black families, who are Christians and followed their recent ancestors’ ‘tradition’ of embracing Christianity, attending church services. Maybe you and others don’t get what I mean about following one’s ancestors’ or family’s traditions, and keeping certain things ‘ in the family’ by passing it down from one generation to another. Had many discussions over the years with friends that left the church altogether, along with their Christian beliefs, and specifically told me they had embraced Christianity, church, because their grandparents/parents did, but as they got older and questioned it, decided it just wasn’t for them. Not all do that, but it is a reality, whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, as no one is forced to agree. One embracing Christianity is one’s personal choice, and those who choose not to, well that’s their right/choice as well. I respect both decisions.

.


In no way am I denying this. As I said previously everyone must and does question their beliefs, just as you say, as they get older. Because it is a personal choice many will choose to stay and many will choose not to stay.


.


Those who choose to stay are not just doing this because of tradition, they are doing it for multiple reasons including the inspiration of the greats of the US Civil Rights movement who did this as part of their Christian faith and beliefs.


.


Those who choose to leave are not just doing it because of the lies and deceptions of the slavers and those who followed as white supremacists etc - Although this and other evils done in the name of religion are perfectly justifiable reasons. Many will have left for the same reasons as everyone else: their faith did not develop from a childhood Christian upbringing to their own adult Christian belief. They, by their right and choice, developed different adult beliefs instead. I respect both decisions.


Ian, since you think you can speak for Black Americans’ views on Christianity... then have at it. Enjoy your day.
[Edited 4/4/21 8:49am]
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Reply #237 posted 04/04/21 7:16am

2elijah

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Graycap23 said:

Folks having an open discussion about the race of a "man" who never existed.


eek


Well, good luck convincing them that he doesn’t exist.

On top of that, having the audacity as a Black woman to share my views/experience, as well as, those from my family/friends’ and others’ views/experience about Christianity in this forum, and then others who have never walked in your shoes, basically belittling/discounting that experience/views? Wow.

I will thank UptownNY for sharing his views and bringing to light, this topic though. Graycap23, remind me to never participate on a thread about religion, in this forum again. whew lol Time to turn on the ‘ignore’ switch on that matter.
[Edited 4/4/21 8:42am]
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Reply #238 posted 04/04/21 9:46am

RJOrion

Graycap23 said:

Folks having an open discussion about the race of a "man" who never existed.


eek



LMAO...word...the epitome of organized confusion...and thats the foundation that so called "western civilization" has been built on... Order out of Chaos...the mighty Temptations once had a hit record about this very concept... "Ball Of Confusion"
[Edited 4/4/21 9:51am]
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Reply #239 posted 04/04/21 10:23am

Graycap23

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2elijah said:

Graycap23 said:

Folks having an open discussion about the race of a "man" who never existed.

eek

Well, good luck convincing them that he doesn’t exist. On top of that, having the audacity as a Black woman to share my views/experience, as well as, those from my family/friends’ and others’ views/experience about Christianity in this forum, and then others who have never walked in your shoes, basically belittling/discounting that experience/views? Wow. I will thank UptownNY for sharing his views and bringing to light, this topic though. Graycap23, remind me to never participate on a thread about religion, in this forum again. whew lol Time to turn on the ‘ignore’ switch on that matter. [Edited 4/4/21 8:42am]

I bowed out early.

I don't have the time or energy 4 this nonsense anymore.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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