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Reply #180 posted 03/29/21 3:36pm

RJOrion

why send socalled "missionaries" all over the World (Africa, Asia, Caribbean, South America), instead of sending some missionaries to save their own people in trailer parks and on farms?... why are they so concerned with OUR salvation?...we never asked yall who God is...we already had our spiritual beliefs and customs before we got here...what were yall so afraid of that yall had to beat us and kill us out of our indigenous beliefs?...and it still goes on today...people being persecuted or oppressed or mistreated because they dont conform to, or believe in Christian rhetoric
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Reply #181 posted 03/29/21 4:50pm

Graycap23

avatar

RJOrion said:

its also EXTREMELY odd that white christian leaders spend more time trying to prostelytize and convert people of color, than their own people...churhes placed strategically everywhere in the black & so called "minority" communities...the same way drugs, guns and liquor spots are strategically placed in our communities...its no coincidence at all...they are all tools and mechanisms of bondage and oppression

What did I tell u about bringing true shit up in here?

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #182 posted 03/29/21 5:15pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

RJOrion said:

why send socalled "missionaries" all over the World (Africa, Asia, Caribbean, South America), instead of sending some missionaries to save their own people in trailer parks and on farms?... why are they so concerned with OUR salvation?...we never asked yall who God is...we already had our spiritual beliefs and customs before we got here...what were yall so afraid of that yall had to beat us and kill us out of our indigenous beliefs?...and it still goes on today...people being persecuted or oppressed or mistreated because they dont conform to, or believe in Christian rhetoric


White supremacy in colonialism.

I like that you brought this up because they talked about this in the PBS show The Black Church, that I mentioned earlier.

To white folks, we just always thought Black folks were Christians, with the "old church," hymns, etc., but that is just not the case. In fact, whites wanted Blacks to be converted, but still be slaves (as did Paul in the new testament), and not even have their own churches to worship. "Praise houses" were often buried deep in the woods somewhere, just so Black folks could gather and worship.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #183 posted 03/29/21 5:15pm

RJOrion

Graycap23 said:



RJOrion said:


its also EXTREMELY odd that white christian leaders spend more time trying to prostelytize and convert people of color, than their own people...churhes placed strategically everywhere in the black & so called "minority" communities...the same way drugs, guns and liquor spots are strategically placed in our communities...its no coincidence at all...they are all tools and mechanisms of bondage and oppression

What did I tell u about bringing true shit up in here?






wave
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Reply #184 posted 03/29/21 6:33pm

AMERICA1ST

How many people on this thread are actually black?

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Reply #185 posted 03/29/21 6:54pm

RJOrion

AMERICA1ST said:

How many people on this thread are actually black?




none
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Reply #186 posted 03/29/21 7:25pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

Personal attacks are never a substitute for adult conversation. I note you still cannot address your errors even though the Knicks game is over.

.

PS I have not said anyone should or should not choose their own religion. It is not me seeking to force beliefs on others here.

ive made no errors, nor have i made any personal attacks...im attacking the nonsensical notion that "Blacks" should somehow accept, embrace or even practice so called Christianity...

.

You have not got one thing right:

.

You fell for the beginners error that sun and son are confused and Christianity is really a form of sun worship. This never happened outside of conspiracy theories. You refused to recognise that you could be ever wrong so you spun the line that English is derived from Latin. This was because you never could answer that son is fillius and sun is sol, so the lie that son and sun being homonyms shows Christianity is sun worship - Just plain silly!

.

You lied to falslely accuse me of saying that there were no Sumerians when what I said was that just because there where Sumerians, this does not prove their gods existed.

.

You lied that you were taught that English is derived from Latin in school - If this is not a lie, you should consider the quality of you teacher as the cause of your errors. As you were unable to find any source that agreed that English is derived from a Latin base because EVERY source you found would have said English is derived for a Germanic base. As you never can admit to any error, you found that Dictionary.com said that many words in English are borrowed form Latin, mainly through French. This is not the same thing as the language being derived from Latin as Old English only had 140 borroewed Latin words - virtually every other word was Germanic. Even here the argument is nonsense - the three critical words for you lie are about the pronunciation of sun, son and soul and sol - all except sol having no connection to any word in Latin because they are Germanic.

.

You confused the word synonym with homonyn. They are two very different things.

.

You have been racist against Middle Eastern and African people in the early Church by denying their race just so you could spin a story.

.

Think about this: If you arguments against people freely choosing their religion are based on the evil done by people who call themselves Christian, then this is their choice - You can evangelise your beliefs all you like but it is their choice not mine or yours. If you spruke the errors abaove as you have been, then this makes you as bad as the white supprecists miss using Christianity to justifty their sins.

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Reply #187 posted 03/29/21 7:44pm

RJOrion

IanRG said:



RJOrion said:


IanRG said:


.


Personal attacks are never a substitute for adult conversation. I note you still cannot address your errors even though the Knicks game is over.


.


PS I have not said anyone should or should not choose their own religion. It is not me seeking to force beliefs on others here.



ive made no errors, nor have i made any personal attacks...im attacking the nonsensical notion that "Blacks" should somehow accept, embrace or even practice so called Christianity...

.


You have not got one thing right:


.


You fell for the beginners error that sun and son are confused and Christianity is really a form of sun worship. This never happened outside of conspiracy theories. You refused to recognise that you could be ever wrong so you spun the line that English is derived from Latin. This was because you never could answer that son is fillius and sun is sol, so the lie that son and sun being homonyms shows Christianity is sun worship - Just plain silly!


.


You lied to falslely accuse me of saying that there were no Sumerians when what I said was that just because there where Sumerians, this does not prove their gods existed.


.


You lied that you were taught that English is derived from Latin in school - If this is not a lie, you should consider the quality of you teacher as the cause of your errors. As you were unable to find any source that agreed that English is derived from a Latin base because EVERY source you found would have said English is derived for a Germanic base. As you never can admit to any error, you found that Dictionary.com said that many words in English are borrowed form Latin, mainly through French. This is not the same thing as the language being derived from Latin as Old English only had 140 borroewed Latin words - virtually every other word was Germanic. Even here the argument is nonsense - the three critical words for you lie are about the pronunciation of sun, son and soul and sol - all except sol having no connection to any word in Latin because they are Germanic.


.


You confused the word synonym with homonyn. They are two very different things.


.


You have been racist against Middle Eastern and African people in the early Church by denying their race just so you could spin a story.


.


Think about this: If you arguments against people freely choosing their religion are based on the evil done by people who call themselves Christian, then this is their choice - You can evangelise your beliefs all you like but it is their choice not mine or yours. If you spruke the errors abaove as you have been, then this makes you as bad as the white supprecists miss using Christianity to justifty their sins.



not only do you keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, but your recurring response that youre stuck on repeating, is full of lies , word-twisting and predictable ignorance...why are you even addressing me?... go tell your lies, fantasies and fairy tales to your own people...youre clearly delusional... and your delusions are are further proving my (and others) point...youre so stuck on me, youve clearly lost your way...and you really need to improve your reading comprehension, your lack of basic understanding is probably why youre so gullible and easily confused by what you think youve read...
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Reply #188 posted 03/29/21 11:31pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

You have not got one thing right:

.

You fell for the beginners error that sun and son are confused and Christianity is really a form of sun worship. This never happened outside of conspiracy theories. You refused to recognise that you could be ever wrong so you spun the line that English is derived from Latin. This was because you never could answer that son is fillius and sun is sol, so the lie that son and sun being homonyms shows Christianity is sun worship - Just plain silly!

.

You lied to falslely accuse me of saying that there were no Sumerians when what I said was that just because there where Sumerians, this does not prove their gods existed.

.

You lied that you were taught that English is derived from Latin in school - If this is not a lie, you should consider the quality of you teacher as the cause of your errors. As you were unable to find any source that agreed that English is derived from a Latin base because EVERY source you found would have said English is derived for a Germanic base. As you never can admit to any error, you found that Dictionary.com said that many words in English are borrowed form Latin, mainly through French. This is not the same thing as the language being derived from Latin as Old English only had 140 borroewed Latin words - virtually every other word was Germanic. Even here the argument is nonsense - the three critical words for you lie are about the pronunciation of sun, son and soul and sol - all except sol having no connection to any word in Latin because they are Germanic.

.

You confused the word synonym with homonyn. They are two very different things.

.

You have been racist against Middle Eastern and African people in the early Church by denying their race just so you could spin a story.

.

Think about this: If you arguments against people freely choosing their religion are based on the evil done by people who call themselves Christian, then this is their choice - You can evangelise your beliefs all you like but it is their choice not mine or yours. If you spruke the errors abaove as you have been, then this makes you as bad as the white supprecists miss using Christianity to justifty their sins.

not only do you keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, but your recurring response that youre stuck on repeating, is full of lies , word-twisting and predictable ignorance...why are you even addressing me?... go tell your lies, fantasies and fairy tales to your own people...youre clearly delusional... and your delusions are are further proving my (and others) point...youre so stuck on me, youve clearly lost your way...and you really need to improve your reading comprehension, your lack of basic understanding is probably why youre so gullible and easily confused by what you think youve read...

.

Wrong and pointlessly wrong because people can read what you said here.

.

You did try to argue the beginners error of sun not son. Look back.

.

You did state I said the Sumerians did not exist when you KNOW I did not. Look back

.

You did lie that you were taught the English language is derived from Latin but could not find any source that says this. So you did try to hide your error by talking about borrowed words instead - look back

.

You NEVER addressed that sun, son and soul are NOT from Latin based borrowed words so your point was always moot.

.

You did mix up homonyms with synonym - I never said son and sun are synonyms, that is plain stupid and beginner's error - look back.

.

You did falsely claim that all non-white senior clergy were removed from the Church by Constantine before Nicea AFTER I had already pointed out 2 very senior Egyptians at Nicea specifically there to discuss the relationship between God, the Father and God, the Son. Denying the contribution of people of colour is racist. Look back.

.

Personal attacks and false accusations shame you because, other than by this method, you have failed to answer the errors you made as above.

[Edited 3/29/21 23:55pm]

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Reply #189 posted 03/30/21 12:43am

IanRG

uPtoWnNY said:

IanRG said:

.

These two posts are perfect examples of the thinking that led to so many of the times that people who call themselves Christian have failed to follow the teachings of Christ. A fitting contribution to a thread that started with anger at whether those other people should get to share heaven with the OP's people.

I want no part of any philosophy (christianity or otherwise) that tells me I have to love/forgive/pray for racist lowlifes who think I'm less than human, and who would kill me and mine if they could get away with it. Black Americans have been doing that nonsense for decades, and what has it done for us? Would a black criminal get the same forgiveness as Dylan Roof? or the 9/11 terrorists? Why are my people always asked to take the high road?

.

ALL people should seek to take the high road.

.

To know what the high road is means the low road, the bad road, the evil road is known. To deliberately and knowingly choose that evil road is either psychopathic or is to surrender to anger and hate. If it is the latter and as a result of the acts of someone else who gone low, then you risk allowing that person to win. It can spiral as each side seeks to go lower and lower.

.

Forgiveness must be sought and accepted by the person being forgiven to be truly effective. If it is not the person forgiving only benefits by knowing that they have not let the evil by the other person own them. And in no way does forgiving mean forgetting or absolve the person being forgiven from their responsibility.

.

Do you really believe anything a white supremacist says? If not why believe them about a religion you have already personally rejected but a very large majority of Black people in the USA do not reject?

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Reply #190 posted 03/30/21 5:48am

2elijah

avatar

IanRG said:



uPtoWnNY said:




IanRG said:



.


These two posts are perfect examples of the thinking that led to so many of the times that people who call themselves Christian have failed to follow the teachings of Christ. A fitting contribution to a thread that started with anger at whether those other people should get to share heaven with the OP's people.




I want no part of any philosophy (christianity or otherwise) that tells me I have to love/forgive/pray for racist lowlifes who think I'm less than human, and who would kill me and mine if they could get away with it. Black Americans have been doing that nonsense for decades, and what has it done for us? Would a black criminal get the same forgiveness as Dylan Roof? or the 9/11 terrorists? Why are my people always asked to take the high road?





.


ALL people should seek to take the high road.


.


To know what the high road is means the low road, the bad road, the evil road is known. To deliberately and knowingly choose that evil road is either psychopathic or is to surrender to anger and hate. If it is the latter and as a result of the acts of someone else who gone low, then you risk allowing that person to win. It can spiral as each side seeks to go lower and lower.


.


Forgiveness must be sought and accepted by the person being forgiven to be truly effective. If it is not the person forgiving only benefits by knowing that they have not let the evil by the other person own them. And in no way does forgiving mean forgetting or absolve the person being forgiven from their responsibility.


.


Do you really believe anything a white supremacist says? If not why believe them about a religion you have already personally rejected but a very large majority of Black people in the USA do not reject?


Ian, white supremacy ideology has injected Christianity into its belief system. The system of racism/institutionalized racism in America, is the birth child of White supremacy ideology in this country. Those two ingredients mixed together is a dangerous cocktail, and controlling factors behind it all.

Today, white supremacist/right wing hate groups still promote that racist false, ideology, and many of their White supporters, believe they are of a superior race, and given that right by God, and all other non-White groups are inferior. During the slavery era, Christianity, (Bible), and White supremacy ideology was used to brainwash/convince the enslaved that this was true as well.

The reason I think, so many Black Americans, especially in the Southern part of this country, and many Black Caribbeans, embrace Christianity is because it was generational, handed down from many of their ancestors who were enslaved in this country, and the Caribbean, That’s just my opinion. But I also don’t think there is anything wrong with Christianity being questioned, because it is true that Christianity was used to brainwash many enslaved Blacks, and others, as a controlling factor, to keep them mentally enslaved in so many ways, that they are blinded by the teachings of Christianity, because many don’t question its teachings.

But I do know many who have left the Black Church or rejected Christianity altogether. It’s ok to question Christianity.

To me, I do believe there is something greater than all of us, but I don’t believe one has to necessarily have to follow the teachings of Christianity to be a kind, compassionate human being. There are many people in this world who have never stepped a foot in church or identify as Christian, yet hold those humane qualities.
[Edited 3/30/21 5:54am]
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Reply #191 posted 03/30/21 7:56am

2elijah

avatar

https://books.google.com/...p;gboemv=1

A book available on Google to read: ‘Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl’


(Read preface by author as well).

True life story from a woman who was born into slavery, and was able to tell of her experience, as a slave, with the help of a friend who helped to put that experience in writing for her. This book has been read in several classrooms throughout the country.

Scroll down to chapter 13, ‘The Church and Slavery’, Page 105. Scroll to page 106 and read the part where the preacher uses Christianity to brainwash the enslaved into believing, that they had to obey their masters, and basically told them God was watching them if they disobey their masters or if they are caught practicing some other form of religion. They were told they had to worship God or they will be punished if they don’t.
[Edited 3/30/21 9:05am]
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Reply #192 posted 03/30/21 10:27am

jjhunsecker

avatar

AMERICA1ST said:

How many people on this thread are actually black?



Certainly not you !

If you’re Black, I’m Ghenghis Khan
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #193 posted 03/30/21 11:36am

IanRG

2elijah said:

IanRG said:

.

ALL people should seek to take the high road.

.

To know what the high road is means the low road, the bad road, the evil road is known. To deliberately and knowingly choose that evil road is either psychopathic or is to surrender to anger and hate. If it is the latter and as a result of the acts of someone else who gone low, then you risk allowing that person to win. It can spiral as each side seeks to go lower and lower.

.

Forgiveness must be sought and accepted by the person being forgiven to be truly effective. If it is not the person forgiving only benefits by knowing that they have not let the evil by the other person own them. And in no way does forgiving mean forgetting or absolve the person being forgiven from their responsibility.

.

Do you really believe anything a white supremacist says? If not why believe them about a religion you have already personally rejected but a very large majority of Black people in the USA do not reject?

Ian, white supremacy ideology has injected Christianity into its belief system. The system of racism/institutionalized racism in America, is the birth child of White supremacy ideology in this country. Those two ingredients mixed together is a dangerous cocktail, and controlling factors behind it all. Today, white supremacist/right wing hate groups still promote that racist false, ideology, and many of their White supporters, believe they are of a superior race, and given that right by God, and all other non-White groups are inferior. During the slavery era, Christianity, (Bible), and White supremacy ideology was used to brainwash/convince the enslaved that this was true as well. The reason I think, so many Black Americans, especially in the Southern part of this country, and many Black Caribbeans, embrace Christianity is because it was generational, handed down from many of their ancestors who were enslaved in this country, and the Caribbean, That’s just my opinion. But I also don’t think there is anything wrong with Christianity being questioned, because it is true that Christianity was used to brainwash many enslaved Blacks, and others, as a controlling factor, to keep them mentally enslaved in so many ways, that they are blinded by the teachings of Christianity, because many don’t question its teachings. But I do know many who have left the Black Church or rejected Christianity altogether. It’s ok to question Christianity. To me, I do believe there is something greater than all of us, but I don’t believe one has to necessarily have to follow the teachings of Christianity to be a kind, compassionate human being. There are many people in this world who have never stepped a foot in church or identify as Christian, yet hold those humane qualities. [Edited 3/30/21 5:54am]

.

It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary for everyone to question their beliefs. The response to this questioning will be anything from more strongly affirming or totally rejecting and everything in between.

.

It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary to reject white supremacist ideology (and any other equivalent ideologies) and purge every belief and organisation of the taints of these evils. Nothing I said was contrary to either of these.

.

When I say ALL people should take the high road, this is regardless of what religion or belief system, race, colour or ethnic identity, political view or historical suffering inflicted on them or their's and by them or their's. At no point have I said you need to be Christian to hold humane qualities, but I reject the notion pushed by others here that you don't have these humane qualities if you are Christian.

.

In this many Church organisations have a lot answer for. This is no different from, say the Democratic Party of the past. Clearly some reject this party because of its history in the South (and I saw in the lead up to the election that there is still at least one trump supporting Black elected Dixicrat holding a Democratic seat, I forget where). But the majority choose differently. Arguments that this majority should reject the Democratic Party because of its past beliefs are mostly rejected.

.

Every belief system is one generation from disappearing. As beliefs move from the child state of this is what my parents taught me through to adulthood by questioning, we choose what to take with us and what to leave behind. Any brainwashing from the slave era does not hold generations later and the taint of this era is more of an impediment on Christianity today than the reason so many Black Americans etc choose Christianity today. But ultimately it is personal choice.

[Edited 3/30/21 12:14pm]

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Reply #194 posted 03/30/21 1:19pm

2elijah

avatar

IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:


.


ALL people should seek to take the high road.


.


To know what the high road is means the low road, the bad road, the evil road is known. To deliberately and knowingly choose that evil road is either psychopathic or is to surrender to anger and hate. If it is the latter and as a result of the acts of someone else who gone low, then you risk allowing that person to win. It can spiral as each side seeks to go lower and lower.


.


Forgiveness must be sought and accepted by the person being forgiven to be truly effective. If it is not the person forgiving only benefits by knowing that they have not let the evil by the other person own them. And in no way does forgiving mean forgetting or absolve the person being forgiven from their responsibility.


.


Do you really believe anything a white supremacist says? If not why believe them about a religion you have already personally rejected but a very large majority of Black people in the USA do not reject?



Ian, white supremacy ideology has injected Christianity into its belief system. The system of racism/institutionalized racism in America, is the birth child of White supremacy ideology in this country. Those two ingredients mixed together is a dangerous cocktail, and controlling factors behind it all. Today, white supremacist/right wing hate groups still promote that racist false, ideology, and many of their White supporters, believe they are of a superior race, and given that right by God, and all other non-White groups are inferior. During the slavery era, Christianity, (Bible), and White supremacy ideology was used to brainwash/convince the enslaved that this was true as well. The reason I think, so many Black Americans, especially in the Southern part of this country, and many Black Caribbeans, embrace Christianity is because it was generational, handed down from many of their ancestors who were enslaved in this country, and the Caribbean, That’s just my opinion. But I also don’t think there is anything wrong with Christianity being questioned, because it is true that Christianity was used to brainwash many enslaved Blacks, and others, as a controlling factor, to keep them mentally enslaved in so many ways, that they are blinded by the teachings of Christianity, because many don’t question its teachings. But I do know many who have left the Black Church or rejected Christianity altogether. It’s ok to question Christianity. To me, I do believe there is something greater than all of us, but I don’t believe one has to necessarily have to follow the teachings of Christianity to be a kind, compassionate human being. There are many people in this world who have never stepped a foot in church or identify as Christian, yet hold those humane qualities. [Edited 3/30/21 5:54am]

.


It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary for everyone to question their beliefs. The response to this questioning will be anything from more strongly affirming or totally rejecting and everything in between.


.


It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary to reject white supremacist ideology (and any other equivalent ideologies) and purge every belief and organisation of the taints of these evils. Nothing I said was contrary to either of these.


.


When I say ALL people should take the high road, this is regardless of what religion or belief system, race, colour or ethnic identity, political view or historical suffering inflicted on them or their's and by them or their's. At no point have I said you need to be Christian to hold humane qualities, but I reject the notion pushed by others here that you don't have these humane qualities if you are Christian.


.


In this many Church organisations have a lot answer for. This is no different from, say the Democratic Party of the past. Clearly some reject this party because of its history in the South (and I saw in the lead up to the election that there is still at least one trump supporting Black elected Dixicrat holding a Democratic seat, I forget where). But the majority choose differently. Arguments that this majority should reject the Democratic Party because of its past beliefs are mostly rejected.


.


Every belief system is one generation from disappearing. As beliefs move from the child state of this is what my parents taught me through to adulthood by questioning, we choose what to take with us and what to leave behind. Any brainwashing from the slave era does not hold generations later and the taint of this era is more of an impediment on Christianity today than the reason so many Black Americans etc choose Christianity today. But ultimately it is personal choice.

[Edited 3/30/21 12:14pm]


Ok, but just so you know, I didn’t accuse you of anything or attack your views. Just pointing out my view on why there are many Black Americans questioning Christianity, and leaving the Black Church. I also didn’t imply that Christians have no sense of humanity. I think what the OP is expressing is how he chooses not to embrace it for his own personal and historic reasons, and questions why many Black Americans embrace Christianity, because historically it’s been used to harm their ancestors, in which many Black Americans today are descendants of those ancestors. UptownNY does make good points, but yes, I can agree Christianity is a personal choice, not a required one.


But at the same time, it’s not surprising that many Christians ( not you in particular), are not comfortable hearing the ugly truths about how Christianity has been/and is often used to manipulate/brainwash, by many with bad intentions.
[Edited 3/30/21 18:28pm]
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Reply #195 posted 03/30/21 3:20pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

IanRG said:

2elijah said:

IanRG said: Ian, white supremacy ideology has injected Christianity into its belief system. The system of racism/institutionalized racism in America, is the birth child of White supremacy ideology in this country. Those two ingredients mixed together is a dangerous cocktail, and controlling factors behind it all. Today, white supremacist/right wing hate groups still promote that racist false, ideology, and many of their White supporters, believe they are of a superior race, and given that right by God, and all other non-White groups are inferior. During the slavery era, Christianity, (Bible), and White supremacy ideology was used to brainwash/convince the enslaved that this was true as well. The reason I think, so many Black Americans, especially in the Southern part of this country, and many Black Caribbeans, embrace Christianity is because it was generational, handed down from many of their ancestors who were enslaved in this country, and the Caribbean, That’s just my opinion. But I also don’t think there is anything wrong with Christianity being questioned, because it is true that Christianity was used to brainwash many enslaved Blacks, and others, as a controlling factor, to keep them mentally enslaved in so many ways, that they are blinded by the teachings of Christianity, because many don’t question its teachings. But I do know many who have left the Black Church or rejected Christianity altogether. It’s ok to question Christianity. To me, I do believe there is something greater than all of us, but I don’t believe one has to necessarily have to follow the teachings of Christianity to be a kind, compassionate human being. There are many people in this world who have never stepped a foot in church or identify as Christian, yet hold those humane qualities. [Edited 3/30/21 5:54am]

.

It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary for everyone to question their beliefs. The response to this questioning will be anything from more strongly affirming or totally rejecting and everything in between.

.

It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary to reject white supremacist ideology (and any other equivalent ideologies) and purge every belief and organisation of the taints of these evils. Nothing I said was contrary to either of these.

.

When I say ALL people should take the high road, this is regardless of what religion or belief system, race, colour or ethnic identity, political view or historical suffering inflicted on them or their's and by them or their's. At no point have I said you need to be Christian to hold humane qualities, but I reject the notion pushed by others here that you don't have these humane qualities if you are Christian.

.

In this many Church organisations have a lot answer for. This is no different from, say the Democratic Party of the past. Clearly some reject this party because of its history in the South (and I saw in the lead up to the election that there is still at least one trump supporting Black elected Dixicrat holding a Democratic seat, I forget where). But the majority choose differently. Arguments that this majority should reject the Democratic Party because of its past beliefs are mostly rejected.

.

Every belief system is one generation from disappearing. As beliefs move from the child state of this is what my parents taught me through to adulthood by questioning, we choose what to take with us and what to leave behind. Any brainwashing from the slave era does not hold generations later and the taint of this era is more of an impediment on Christianity today than the reason so many Black Americans etc choose Christianity today. But ultimately it is personal choice.

[Edited 3/30/21 12:14pm]

Excellent post

Life Matters
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Reply #196 posted 03/30/21 6:45pm

2elijah

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TrivialPursuit said:



RJOrion said:


why send socalled "missionaries" all over the World (Africa, Asia, Caribbean, South America), instead of sending some missionaries to save their own people in trailer parks and on farms?... why are they so concerned with OUR salvation?...we never asked yall who God is...we already had our spiritual beliefs and customs before we got here...what were yall so afraid of that yall had to beat us and kill us out of our indigenous beliefs?...and it still goes on today...people being persecuted or oppressed or mistreated because they dont conform to, or believe in Christian rhetoric


White supremacy in colonialism.

I like that you brought this up because they talked about this in the PBS show The Black Church, that I mentioned earlier.

To white folks, we just always thought Black folks were Christians, with the "old church," hymns, etc., but that is just not the case. In fact, whites wanted Blacks to be converted, but still be slaves (as did Paul in the new testament), and not even have their own churches to worship. "Praise houses" were often buried deep in the woods somewhere, just so Black folks could gather and worship.



Interesting you mentioned that, because it’s true about praise houses ‘in the woods’ during that time. Many were destroyed by the slave owners. I posted a link to a book available in its entirety on Google, titled ‘Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl’.


https://books.google.com/...0&gboemv=1

Scroll to Chapter 13 on page 105, called ‘The Church and Slavery’. The author, whose life story the book is about, depicts how slaves were condemned for practicing non-Christian beliefs, and were pretty much threatened they’d be punished by God for it if they didn’t submit to Christianity and disobey the slaveowners.
[Edited 3/31/21 4:43am]
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Reply #197 posted 03/31/21 3:43am

IanRG

2elijah said:

IanRG said:

.

It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary for everyone to question their beliefs. The response to this questioning will be anything from more strongly affirming or totally rejecting and everything in between.

.

It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary to reject white supremacist ideology (and any other equivalent ideologies) and purge every belief and organisation of the taints of these evils. Nothing I said was contrary to either of these.

.

When I say ALL people should take the high road, this is regardless of what religion or belief system, race, colour or ethnic identity, political view or historical suffering inflicted on them or their's and by them or their's. At no point have I said you need to be Christian to hold humane qualities, but I reject the notion pushed by others here that you don't have these humane qualities if you are Christian.

.

In this many Church organisations have a lot answer for. This is no different from, say the Democratic Party of the past. Clearly some reject this party because of its history in the South (and I saw in the lead up to the election that there is still at least one trump supporting Black elected Dixicrat holding a Democratic seat, I forget where). But the majority choose differently. Arguments that this majority should reject the Democratic Party because of its past beliefs are mostly rejected.

.

Every belief system is one generation from disappearing. As beliefs move from the child state of this is what my parents taught me through to adulthood by questioning, we choose what to take with us and what to leave behind. Any brainwashing from the slave era does not hold generations later and the taint of this era is more of an impediment on Christianity today than the reason so many Black Americans etc choose Christianity today. But ultimately it is personal choice.

[Edited 3/30/21 12:14pm]

Ok, but just so you know, I didn’t accuse you of anything or attack your views. Just pointing out my view on why there are many Black Americans questioning Christianity, and leaving the Black Church. I also didn’t imply that Christians have no sense of humanity. I think what the OP is expressing is how he chooses not to embrace it for his own personal and historic reasons, and questions why many Black Americans embrace Christianity, because historically it’s been used to harm their ancestors, in which many Black Americans today are descendants of those ancestors. UptownNY does make good points, but yes, I can agree Christianity is a personal choice, not a required one. But at the same time, it’s not surprising that many Christians ( not you in particular), are not comfortable hearing the ugly truths about how Christianity has been/and is often used to manipulate/brainwash, by many with bad intentions. [Edited 3/30/21 18:28pm]

.

Facing the truth of sins of the past (and still by some today) is the only way to correct and move on from these.

.

In this it is important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. So much of the Civil Rights movement's successes are on the backs of Christian Black Americans. To choose to turn from your religion just because of the actions of white supremacists et al seems short sighted and if the (non- white supremacist) Christian understanding of God is correct, self defeating. In the circumstance from IptownNY's second quote: to avoid sharing Heaven with the repentent former white supremacists, it risks hell with unrepentent ones.

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Reply #198 posted 03/31/21 4:41am

2elijah

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IanRG said:



2elijah said:


IanRG said:


.


It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary for everyone to question their beliefs. The response to this questioning will be anything from more strongly affirming or totally rejecting and everything in between.


.


It is perfectly OK and absolutely necessary to reject white supremacist ideology (and any other equivalent ideologies) and purge every belief and organisation of the taints of these evils. Nothing I said was contrary to either of these.


.


When I say ALL people should take the high road, this is regardless of what religion or belief system, race, colour or ethnic identity, political view or historical suffering inflicted on them or their's and by them or their's. At no point have I said you need to be Christian to hold humane qualities, but I reject the notion pushed by others here that you don't have these humane qualities if you are Christian.


.


In this many Church organisations have a lot answer for. This is no different from, say the Democratic Party of the past. Clearly some reject this party because of its history in the South (and I saw in the lead up to the election that there is still at least one trump supporting Black elected Dixicrat holding a Democratic seat, I forget where). But the majority choose differently. Arguments that this majority should reject the Democratic Party because of its past beliefs are mostly rejected.


.


Every belief system is one generation from disappearing. As beliefs move from the child state of this is what my parents taught me through to adulthood by questioning, we choose what to take with us and what to leave behind. Any brainwashing from the slave era does not hold generations later and the taint of this era is more of an impediment on Christianity today than the reason so many Black Americans etc choose Christianity today. But ultimately it is personal choice.


[Edited 3/30/21 12:14pm]



Ok, but just so you know, I didn’t accuse you of anything or attack your views. Just pointing out my view on why there are many Black Americans questioning Christianity, and leaving the Black Church. I also didn’t imply that Christians have no sense of humanity. I think what the OP is expressing is how he chooses not to embrace it for his own personal and historic reasons, and questions why many Black Americans embrace Christianity, because historically it’s been used to harm their ancestors, in which many Black Americans today are descendants of those ancestors. UptownNY does make good points, but yes, I can agree Christianity is a personal choice, not a required one. But at the same time, it’s not surprising that many Christians ( not you in particular), are not comfortable hearing the ugly truths about how Christianity has been/and is often used to manipulate/brainwash, by many with bad intentions. [Edited 3/30/21 18:28pm]

.


Facing the truth of sins of the past (and still by some today) is the only way to correct and move on from these.


.


In this it is important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. So much of the Civil Rights movement's successes are on the backs of Christian Black Americans. To choose to turn from your religion just because of the actions of white supremacists et al seems short sighted and if the (non- white supremacist) Christian understanding of God is correct, self defeating. In the circumstance from IptownNY's second quote: to avoid sharing Heaven with the repentent former white supremacists, it risks hell with unrepentent ones.


I believe in one’s right to ‘choose’ even if I don’t agree with another’s opinion. As far as religion, I always felt that no one has a right to force their religious beliefs on someone else other than sharing what their beliefs are, as in discussing it with another. Even if you don’t agree with UptownNY’s views on Christianity, it’s his right to feel his way about it.

If an individual chooses to follow a different path,(again even if I don’t agree) then who am I to tell them not to? It’s their life, not mine. No one should have that kind of control over another. There’s good and bad in the world. If a situation affected one’s life or they don’t feel comfortable embracing it, then they have a right to question it or decide to embrace or refuse to have it in their lives. That’s not my decision. I can’t walk in the shoes of another unless we experienced the exact or similar situation.

Anyway, this discussion on Christianity could go on forever, because everyone will have their own opinions on it, and no opinion is absolute. So with that being said, it’s best to agree to disagree on this. Thanks for sharing your views on it.
[Edited 3/31/21 5:02am]
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Reply #199 posted 03/31/21 1:13pm

IanRG

2elijah said:

IanRG said:

.

Facing the truth of sins of the past (and still by some today) is the only way to correct and move on from these.

.

In this it is important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. So much of the Civil Rights movement's successes are on the backs of Christian Black Americans. To choose to turn from your religion just because of the actions of white supremacists et al seems short sighted and if the (non- white supremacist) Christian understanding of God is correct, self defeating. In the circumstance from IptownNY's second quote: to avoid sharing Heaven with the repentent former white supremacists, it risks hell with unrepentent ones.

I believe in one’s right to ‘choose’ even if I don’t agree with another’s opinion. As far as religion, I always felt that no one has a right to force their religious beliefs on someone else other than sharing what their beliefs are, as in discussing it with another. Even if you don’t agree with UptownNY’s views on Christianity, it’s his right to feel his way about it. If an individual chooses to follow a different path,(again even if I don’t agree) then who am I to tell them not to? It’s their life, not mine. No one should have that kind of control over another. There’s good and bad in the world. If a situation affected one’s life or they don’t feel comfortable embracing it, then they have a right to question it or decide to embrace or refuse to have it in their lives. That’s not my decision. I can’t walk in the shoes of another unless we experienced the exact or similar situation. Anyway, this discussion on Christianity could go on forever, because everyone will have their own opinions on it, and no opinion is absolute. So with that being said, it’s best to agree to disagree on this. Thanks for sharing your views on it. [Edited 3/31/21 5:02am]

.

Absolutely. I respect UptownNY's personal choice and apologise for the harm those in my religion have done behind that choice. Whenever the discussion is questioning each others beliefs, the encouragement to question and respond should always be to agree to disagree and respect each other's choice.

.

Thank you for rescuing this thread from conspiracy theories.

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Reply #200 posted 03/31/21 1:19pm

TrivialPursuit

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2elijah said:



Interesting you mentioned that, because it’s true about praise houses ‘in the woods’ during that time. Many were destroyed by the slave owners. I posted a link to a book available in its entirety on Google, titled ‘Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl’....


Free on the Guttenberg Project site, too.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #201 posted 04/01/21 6:00am

2elijah

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TrivialPursuit said:



2elijah said:







Interesting you mentioned that, because it’s true about praise houses ‘in the woods’ during that time. Many were destroyed by the slave owners. I posted a link to a book available in its entirety on Google, titled ‘Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl’....


Free on the Guttenberg Project site, too.


Thanks.
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Reply #202 posted 04/01/21 10:31am

2freaky4church
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The bad idea has always been secularism.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #203 posted 04/01/21 4:04pm

CherryMoon57

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I've walked away from many churches before but never from Christianity. I once even had to leave one Church for my own safety, having been incessantly harrassed by an aggressive male church member who wouldn't take no for an answer (he also happened to be black). After speaking to the pastor about it, I found out I had not been the man's first target.

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Reply #204 posted 04/02/21 10:37am

2freaky4church
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Cherrymoon, check out James Cone, the Cross and the Lynching Tree. He compares treatment of blacks to crucifixion.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #205 posted 04/02/21 11:33am

2elijah

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There’s a difference between walking away from any church because one is a harassed by someone attending that same church vs someone walking away from Christianity, which the latter is what the OP’s thread is about.
[Edited 4/2/21 11:34am]
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Reply #206 posted 04/02/21 11:46am

RJOrion

2elijah said:

There’s a difference between walking away from any church because one is a harassed by someone attending that same church vs someone walking away from Christianity, which the latter is what the OP’s thread is about. [Edited 4/2/21 11:34am]

for real...and the signifier that is was allegedy a "black man" who allegedly "harrassed others" was unnecessary, and somewhat telling

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Reply #207 posted 04/02/21 12:03pm

2elijah

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RJOrion said:



2elijah said:


There’s a difference between walking away from any church because one is a harassed by someone attending that same church vs someone walking away from Christianity, which the latter is what the OP’s thread is about. [Edited 4/2/21 11:34am]



for real...and the signifier that is was allegedy a "black man" who allegedly "harrassed others" was unnecessary, and somewhat telling


I agree. I found that mention odd, re:the ‘specific’ race of the accused. There’s a big difference between someone walking away from a specific church because of a harassment claim vs vs one choosing to walk away from the teachings of Christianity. Came off like a cloaked message. What did one have to do with the other or the topic for that matter?? Smh.
[Edited 4/2/21 12:09pm]
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Reply #208 posted 04/02/21 12:14pm

2elijah

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I do find it interesting when the topic of Blacks questioning/criticizing/or choosing to leave the teachings of Christianity, for their own reasons, it seems to be an issue for some, whether discussed on social media or outside of it. Isn’t religion/choosing one’s faith or choosing not to embrace one, a personal choice? Why would anyone think they have a right to impose their beliefs on someone else?
[Edited 4/2/21 12:26pm]
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Reply #209 posted 04/02/21 12:28pm

RJOrion

2elijah said:

I do find it interesting when the topic of Blacks questioning/criticizing/or choosing to leave the teachings of Christianity, for their own reasons, it seems to be an issue for some. Whether on social media or outside of it. Isn’t religion/choosing one’s faith or not a personal choice? Why would anyone think they have a right to impose their beliefs on them?

because thats their historical legacy...to force their beliefs, however fictional or nonsensical, on the other cultures of the world...BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY...including propaganda, war, slavery and territorial invasions...

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