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Reply #90 posted 03/25/21 6:34pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

The term Trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is based directly on the words of Jesus about his relationship with the God, The Father.

.

In John 14:9 Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father: Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so why are you asking me to show you the Father.

in no way does that foretell or describe or detail that the Almighty God is a 3 headed deity, which includes this mysterious so called "Holy Spirit".. if thats your proof, youve failed badly to prove anything

.

No one said it is proof of anything. The only thing it proved is what I said - the basis for the concept of the Trinity is in Jesus' teaching.

.

The concept of the Trinity is not a three headed deity. It is that the relationship between God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit is that they are separate individuals that are the Triune God - they are consubstantial with each other.

.

John 14:9 is not the only place where this is shown or the only basis. This is not the only thing Jesus said that shows that he is the Son of God, that he sent the Holy Spirit to us, that He has authorities and capabilities that are those of God.

.

The Bible passes on Jesus' teaching that to see God, the Father, all you need to do is see God, the Son. This is not possible unless God, the Son is consubstantial with God, the Father as it says in the Nicean Cread. Whether you believe this or not is not the issue - What it shows is that you are wrong that the concept of the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. You are wrong that it was made up by white people from Europe when many of the key people in the Council of Nicea were in fact from places in the Middle East, Turkey and Egypt.

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Reply #91 posted 03/25/21 6:58pm

RJOrion

IanRG said:



RJOrion said:


IanRG said:


.


The term Trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is based directly on the words of Jesus about his relationship with the God, The Father.


.


In John 14:9 Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father: Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so why are you asking me to show you the Father.



in no way does that foretell or describe or detail that the Almighty God is a 3 headed deity, which includes this mysterious so called "Holy Spirit".. if thats your proof, youve failed badly to prove anything

.


No one said it is proof of anything. The only thing it proved is what I said - the basis for the concept of the Trinity is in Jesus' teaching.


.


The concept of the Trinity is not a three headed deity. It is that the relationship between God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit is that they are separate individuals that are the Triune God - they are consubstantial with each other.


.


John 14:9 is not the only place where this is shown or the only basis. This is not the only thing Jesus said that shows that he is the Son of God, that he sent the Holy Spirit to us, that He has authorities and capabilities that are those of God.


.


The Bible passes on Jesus' teaching that to see God, the Father, all you need to do is see God, the Son. This is not possible unless God, the Son is consubstantial with God, the Father as it says in the Nicean Cread. Whether you believe this or not is not the issue - What it shows is that you are wrong that the concept of the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. You are wrong that it was made up by white people from Europe when many of the key people in the Council of Nicea were in fact from places in the Middle East, Turkey and Egypt.



provide proof that there were people of color (or Egyptians/Africans) attending the council in ANY type of leadership or authoritative position...that seems virtually impossible since it was overseen by Constantine I...and as an unbaptized European warlord, what would HE know about God?...who gave him the authority to try and explain and even make changes to the original laws that were allegedly in the Old Testament?...no one did...they made those changes to the original Judaic laws so they could excuse and forgive their own barbaric behavior. if God is omnipotent and all knowing, why did these barbaric Europeans feel the need to change the laws and texts of God?...no other religious text or doctrine has ever undertaken such a drastic change in the course of its history...the Qur'an and other so called Holy Books remain unchanged in their doctrine while the alleged "Christian" Bible is full of contradiction and mistranslations... WTF is a New Testament?...what was wrong with the old one?... Constantine and his european goons had the authority to correct and make changes to Gods laws and original testaments?...word?...that makes logical sense to you?
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Reply #92 posted 03/25/21 7:04pm

Graycap23

avatar

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

No one said it is proof of anything. The only thing it proved is what I said - the basis for the concept of the Trinity is in Jesus' teaching.

.

The concept of the Trinity is not a three headed deity. It is that the relationship between God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit is that they are separate individuals that are the Triune God - they are consubstantial with each other.

.

John 14:9 is not the only place where this is shown or the only basis. This is not the only thing Jesus said that shows that he is the Son of God, that he sent the Holy Spirit to us, that He has authorities and capabilities that are those of God.

.

The Bible passes on Jesus' teaching that to see God, the Father, all you need to do is see God, the Son. This is not possible unless God, the Son is consubstantial with God, the Father as it says in the Nicean Cread. Whether you believe this or not is not the issue - What it shows is that you are wrong that the concept of the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. You are wrong that it was made up by white people from Europe when many of the key people in the Council of Nicea were in fact from places in the Middle East, Turkey and Egypt.

provide proof that there were people of color (or Egyptians/Africans) attending the council in ANY type of leadership or authoritative position...that seems virtually impossible since it was overseen by Constantine I...and as an unbaptized European warlord, what would HE know about God?...who gave him the authority to try and explain and even make changes to the original laws that were allegedly in the Old Testament?...no one did...they made those changes to the original Judaic laws so they could excuse and forgive their own barbaric behavior. if God is omnipotent and all knowing, why did these barbaric Europeans feel the need to change the laws and texts of God?...no other religious text or doctrine has ever undertaken such a drastic change in the course of its history...the Qur'an and other so called Holy Books remain unchanged in their doctrine while the alleged "Christian" Bible is full of contradiction and mistranslations... WTF is a New Testament?...what was wrong with the old one?... Constantine and his european goons had the authority to correct and make changes to Gods laws and original testaments?...word?...that makes logical sense to you?

Rj, don't come in here asking real questions.

What is wrong with u?

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #93 posted 03/25/21 7:12pm

RJOrion

Graycap23 said:



RJOrion said:


IanRG said:


.


No one said it is proof of anything. The only thing it proved is what I said - the basis for the concept of the Trinity is in Jesus' teaching.


.


The concept of the Trinity is not a three headed deity. It is that the relationship between God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit is that they are separate individuals that are the Triune God - they are consubstantial with each other.


.


John 14:9 is not the only place where this is shown or the only basis. This is not the only thing Jesus said that shows that he is the Son of God, that he sent the Holy Spirit to us, that He has authorities and capabilities that are those of God.


.


The Bible passes on Jesus' teaching that to see God, the Father, all you need to do is see God, the Son. This is not possible unless God, the Son is consubstantial with God, the Father as it says in the Nicean Cread. Whether you believe this or not is not the issue - What it shows is that you are wrong that the concept of the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. You are wrong that it was made up by white people from Europe when many of the key people in the Council of Nicea were in fact from places in the Middle East, Turkey and Egypt.



provide proof that there were people of color (or Egyptians/Africans) attending the council in ANY type of leadership or authoritative position...that seems virtually impossible since it was overseen by Constantine I...and as an unbaptized European warlord, what would HE know about God?...who gave him the authority to try and explain and even make changes to the original laws that were allegedly in the Old Testament?...no one did...they made those changes to the original Judaic laws so they could excuse and forgive their own barbaric behavior. if God is omnipotent and all knowing, why did these barbaric Europeans feel the need to change the laws and texts of God?...no other religious text or doctrine has ever undertaken such a drastic change in the course of its history...the Qur'an and other so called Holy Books remain unchanged in their doctrine while the alleged "Christian" Bible is full of contradiction and mistranslations... WTF is a New Testament?...what was wrong with the old one?... Constantine and his european goons had the authority to correct and make changes to Gods laws and original testaments?...word?...that makes logical sense to you?

Rj, don't come in here asking real questions.


What is wrong with u?



LOL..brother, ive been asking these questions all my adult life, and i havent gotten a valid answer yet... i doubt i ever will, at least not from a socalled Christian, or a European ... but my African elders and other Indigenous peoples know and tell why those changes occurred, and who was responsible for them.
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Reply #94 posted 03/25/21 7:23pm

Graycap23

avatar

RJOrion said:

Graycap23 said:

Rj, don't come in here asking real questions.

What is wrong with u?

LOL..brother, ive been asking these questions all my adult life, and i havent gotten a valid answer yet... i doubt i ever will, at least not from a socalled Christian, or a European ... but my African elders and other Indigenous peoples know and tell why those changes occurred, and who was responsible for them.

I'm just glad everyone hasn't fallen 4 this B.S.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #95 posted 03/25/21 9:50pm

lust

avatar

IanRG said:



RJOrion said:


besides...no where in the Bible does it teach that there is a so called trinity, nor does it ever say prayers must be in the name of Jesus the Christ... nor does it say he is god or part of a 3 headed GodHead...

.


The term Trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is based directly on the words of Jesus about his relationship with the God, The Father.


.


In John 14:9 Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father: Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so why are you asking me to show you the Father.



Let me see your identification.
[with a small wave of his hand] You don't need to see his identification.
We don't need to see his identification.
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
These aren't the droids we're looking for.
He can go about his business.
You can go about your business.
Move along.
Move along... move along.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #96 posted 03/25/21 10:15pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

I wanted to add something to this, adding to my Black Jesus notes earlier: I'm watching The Black Church: This Is Our Story, This Is Our Song (available on the PBS app). It's hosted and produced by Henry Gates, Jr.

There are a lot of interesting notes they make about Blacks being brought here, and how the Black church eventually came together. It didn't just happen.

One note they made was how people say Black people "came here with nothing." That's simply not true. Black folks came here with a rich culture and heritage. But the whites filtered it and saw it as worthless, so of course it was "nothing." But Black people came here with Muslim faith and others. So that's already white supremacy affecting how the faiths of Black people were treated.

Later, one moment talked about how everyone has a god that looks like them, except Black people. Author Rev. Martha Simmons talked about Bishop Henry McNeal Turner had a sermon that addressed this. It was the fall of 1895 in Atlanta. Turner was described as always being on a radical edge of the Black church, and on that night in 1895 delivered a blistering sermon at the first gathering of the National Baptist Convention. He asked those in the room to see God in a radical new way. And it did not go over well.

Turner said, in part, "I worship a Negro God. I believe God is a Negro. Negroes should worship a God who is a Negro."

Simmons commented on Turner's new Black theology. "He has a line where he says, 'Lord have mercy on any race of people who do not believe they look like God.' And I think that sums up so much of what the Black church as fought its way through and has been fighting for. And that is to have its people see themselves as important to God, as not less than. And Henry McNeal Turner, he got that."

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #97 posted 03/25/21 10:26pm

Graycap23

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

I wanted to add something to this, adding to my Black Jesus notes earlier: I'm watching The Black Church: This Is Our Story, This Is Our Song (available on the PBS app). It's hosted and produced by Henry Gates, Jr.

There are a lot of interesting notes they make about Blacks being brought here, and how the Black church eventually came together. It didn't just happen.

One note they made was how people say Black people "came here with nothing." That's simply not true. Black folks came here with a rich culture and heritage. But the whites filtered it and saw it as worthless, so of course it was "nothing." But Black people came here with Muslim faith and others. So that's already white supremacy affecting how the faiths of Black people were treated.

Later, one moment talked about how everyone has a god that looks like them, except Black people. Author Rev. Martha Simmons talked about Bishop Henry McNeal Turner had a sermon that addressed this. It was the fall of 1895 in Atlanta. Turner was described as always being on a radical edge of the Black church, and on that night in 1895 delivered a blistering sermon at the first gathering of the National Baptist Convention. He asked those in the room to see God in a radical new way. And it did not go over well.

Turner said, in part, "I worship a Negro God. I believe God is a Negro. Negroes should worship a God who is a Negro."

Simmons commented on Turner's new Black theology. "He has a line where he says, 'Lord have mercy on any race of people who do not believe they look like God.' And I think that sums up so much of what the Black church as fought its way through and has been fighting for. And that is to have its people see themselves as important to God, as not less than. And Henry McNeal Turner, he got that."

Any fool who worships his oppressors God deserves any and everything he gets.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #98 posted 03/26/21 2:33am

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

No one said it is proof of anything. The only thing it proved is what I said - the basis for the concept of the Trinity is in Jesus' teaching.

.

The concept of the Trinity is not a three headed deity. It is that the relationship between God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit is that they are separate individuals that are the Triune God - they are consubstantial with each other.

.

John 14:9 is not the only place where this is shown or the only basis. This is not the only thing Jesus said that shows that he is the Son of God, that he sent the Holy Spirit to us, that He has authorities and capabilities that are those of God.

.

The Bible passes on Jesus' teaching that to see God, the Father, all you need to do is see God, the Son. This is not possible unless God, the Son is consubstantial with God, the Father as it says in the Nicean Cread. Whether you believe this or not is not the issue - What it shows is that you are wrong that the concept of the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. You are wrong that it was made up by white people from Europe when many of the key people in the Council of Nicea were in fact from places in the Middle East, Turkey and Egypt.

provide proof that there were people of color (or Egyptians/Africans) attending the council in ANY type of leadership or authoritative position...that seems virtually impossible since it was overseen by Constantine I...and as an unbaptized European warlord, what would HE know about God?...who gave him the authority to try and explain and even make changes to the original laws that were allegedly in the Old Testament?...no one did...they made those changes to the original Judaic laws so they could excuse and forgive their own barbaric behavior. if God is omnipotent and all knowing, why did these barbaric Europeans feel the need to change the laws and texts of God?...no other religious text or doctrine has ever undertaken such a drastic change in the course of its history...the Qur'an and other so called Holy Books remain unchanged in their doctrine while the alleged "Christian" Bible is full of contradiction and mistranslations... WTF is a New Testament?...what was wrong with the old one?... Constantine and his european goons had the authority to correct and make changes to Gods laws and original testaments?...word?...that makes logical sense to you?

.

After you made the beginners error in regards to son and sun. After you claimed that just because there is "unlimited" evidence that the Sumerians existed so their Gods must have also existed. After you claimed that English is a modern Latin with no evidence. After you failed at basic maths by saying 325 AD was 400 years after 33 AD. After you failed to understand the Trinity by imagining that this means some three headed thing. After you failed at geography by thinking Nicea is in Europe. After you made up that because the King James Bible is in English, all Bibles orginally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and translated initially to Latin must have the homonyms that only occur in English. After you failed in interpretative logic to understand Jesus' teaching that point to the why the concept of the Trinity exists.

.

After all this you now want to assume that people born and bred in Egypt, the Middle East and the area now known as Turkey who are well documented as being in senior positions in the Church before Constantine and afterwards (including as attendees at the Council of Nicea) that they cannot be Eqyptians or people from the Middle East and the area now know as Turkey.

.

After that you make up that teachings like the Beatitudes and the Great Commandments etc are a warlord militarisation of Old Testament laws.

.

And then you complain that people can't answer you. I bet they did answer you but you just could not accept how wrong your evidence-less assumptions and plain and simple factual errors clearly are.

.

PS The Christians put together the Old Testament - It is the canonical Torah (limited to the first 5 books AKA Pentateuch) and Nevi'im with selected poetical books and Megitt scrolls from the Ketuvim. The Jewish People did not accept many of the items in the Ketuvim as Canonical until the 3rd Century AD.

[Edited 3/26/21 5:00am]

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Reply #99 posted 03/26/21 2:35am

IanRG

lust said:

IanRG said:

.

The term Trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is based directly on the words of Jesus about his relationship with the God, The Father.

.

In John 14:9 Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father: Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so why are you asking me to show you the Father.

Let me see your identification. [with a small wave of his hand] You don't need to see his identification. We don't need to see his identification. These aren't the droids you're looking for. These aren't the droids we're looking for. He can go about his business. You can go about your business. Move along. Move along... move along.

.

I never trusted the Jedi sect translations!!

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Reply #100 posted 03/26/21 2:44am

lust

avatar

IanRG said:



lust said:


IanRG said:


.


The term Trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is based directly on the words of Jesus about his relationship with the God, The Father.


.


In John 14:9 Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father: Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so why are you asking me to show you the Father.



Let me see your identification. [with a small wave of his hand] You don't need to see his identification. We don't need to see his identification. These aren't the droids you're looking for. These aren't the droids we're looking for. He can go about his business. You can go about your business. Move along. Move along... move along.

.


I never trusted the Jedi sect translations!!



lol Well played.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #101 posted 03/26/21 6:33am

RJOrion

IanRG said:



RJOrion said:


IanRG said:


.


No one said it is proof of anything. The only thing it proved is what I said - the basis for the concept of the Trinity is in Jesus' teaching.


.


The concept of the Trinity is not a three headed deity. It is that the relationship between God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit is that they are separate individuals that are the Triune God - they are consubstantial with each other.


.


John 14:9 is not the only place where this is shown or the only basis. This is not the only thing Jesus said that shows that he is the Son of God, that he sent the Holy Spirit to us, that He has authorities and capabilities that are those of God.


.


The Bible passes on Jesus' teaching that to see God, the Father, all you need to do is see God, the Son. This is not possible unless God, the Son is consubstantial with God, the Father as it says in the Nicean Cread. Whether you believe this or not is not the issue - What it shows is that you are wrong that the concept of the Trinity is not supported by the Bible. You are wrong that it was made up by white people from Europe when many of the key people in the Council of Nicea were in fact from places in the Middle East, Turkey and Egypt.



provide proof that there were people of color (or Egyptians/Africans) attending the council in ANY type of leadership or authoritative position...that seems virtually impossible since it was overseen by Constantine I...and as an unbaptized European warlord, what would HE know about God?...who gave him the authority to try and explain and even make changes to the original laws that were allegedly in the Old Testament?...no one did...they made those changes to the original Judaic laws so they could excuse and forgive their own barbaric behavior. if God is omnipotent and all knowing, why did these barbaric Europeans feel the need to change the laws and texts of God?...no other religious text or doctrine has ever undertaken such a drastic change in the course of its history...the Qur'an and other so called Holy Books remain unchanged in their doctrine while the alleged "Christian" Bible is full of contradiction and mistranslations... WTF is a New Testament?...what was wrong with the old one?... Constantine and his european goons had the authority to correct and make changes to Gods laws and original testaments?...word?...that makes logical sense to you?

.


After you made the beginners error in regards to son and sun. After you claimed that just because there is "unlimited" evidence that the Sumerians existed so their Gods must have also existed. After you claimed that English is a modern Latin with no evidence. After you failed at basic maths by saying 325 AD was 400 years after 33 AD. After you failed to understand the Trinity by imagining that this means some three headed thing. After you failed at geography by thinking Nicea is in Europe. After you made up that because the King James Bible is in English, all Bibles orginally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and translated initially to Latin must have the homonyms that only occur in English. After you failed in interpretative logic to understand Jesus' teaching that point to the why the concept of the Trinity exists.


.


After all this you now want to assume that people born and bred in Egypt, the Middle East and the area now known as Turkey who are well documented as being in senior positions in the Church before Constantine and afterwards (including as attendees at the Council of Nicea) that they cannot be Eqyptians or people from the Middle East and the area now know as Turkey.


.


After that you make up that teachings like the Beatitudes and the Great Commandments etc are a warlord militarisation of Old Testament laws.


.


And then you complain that people can't answer you. I bet they did answer you but you just could not accept how wrong your evidence-less assumptions and plain and simple factual errors clearly are.


.


PS The Christians put together the Old Testament - It is the canonical Torah (limited to the first 5 books AKA Pentateuch) and Nevi'im with selected poetical books and Megitt scrolls from the Ketuvim. The Jewish People did not accept many of the items in the Ketuvim as Canonical until the 3rd Century AD.

[Edited 3/26/21 5:00am]




you have so many errors and so much confusion in that rebuttal that it would take several comments to explain... and besides, youre starting to bring irrelevant semantics into the original discussion which is "Why Its Time For Blacks To Walk Away From Christianity"...your comments are a direct reflection of the historical lies and contradictions and brainwashing, from the hands and mouths and writings of the so called Christian Crusaders...one thing you mentioned that is hilarious, is that the old testament peoples were christian...thats assinine to say, when there wasnt even a Christ figure yet...how can there be a "Christian" when the person that they named the religion after wasnt even born or named yet??.and you say english, french, spanish, italian are not derived from Latin???...ANYONE whom has studied world languages KNOWS this to be a FACT that those languages are indeed derived from Latin.....you couldve googled that...and yeah i rounded off to 400 years when it was 300 and some odd years..but who cares about that when no one currently really knows the actual date/time stamps of these events...and if you say there are no Sumerian artifacts that have been preserved, youre flat out lying...like i said, i could easily and in detail rebut all of your whimsical claims but the OP's original thread topic has already been discussed and proven to be a manifest fact, and im trying to avoid turning this into a lengthy 2 day "Me vs you" ordeal...and you still havent proven a thing to support your claims...youve just showed how effective the brainwashing has been by exposing your overall lack of true and esoteric wisdom...but its cool...
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Reply #102 posted 03/26/21 1:32pm

2freaky4church
1

avatar

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #103 posted 03/26/21 1:55pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

After you made the beginners error in regards to son and sun. After you claimed that just because there is "unlimited" evidence that the Sumerians existed so their Gods must have also existed. After you claimed that English is a modern Latin with no evidence. After you failed at basic maths by saying 325 AD was 400 years after 33 AD. After you failed to understand the Trinity by imagining that this means some three headed thing. After you failed at geography by thinking Nicea is in Europe. After you made up that because the King James Bible is in English, all Bibles orginally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and translated initially to Latin must have the homonyms that only occur in English. After you failed in interpretative logic to understand Jesus' teaching that point to the why the concept of the Trinity exists.

.

After all this you now want to assume that people born and bred in Egypt, the Middle East and the area now known as Turkey who are well documented as being in senior positions in the Church before Constantine and afterwards (including as attendees at the Council of Nicea) that they cannot be Eqyptians or people from the Middle East and the area now know as Turkey.

.

After that you make up that teachings like the Beatitudes and the Great Commandments etc are a warlord militarisation of Old Testament laws.

.

And then you complain that people can't answer you. I bet they did answer you but you just could not accept how wrong your evidence-less assumptions and plain and simple factual errors clearly are.

.

PS The Christians put together the Old Testament - It is the canonical Torah (limited to the first 5 books AKA Pentateuch) and Nevi'im with selected poetical books and Megitt scrolls from the Ketuvim. The Jewish People did not accept many of the items in the Ketuvim as Canonical until the 3rd Century AD.

[Edited 3/26/21 5:00am]

you have so many errors and so much confusion in that rebuttal that it would take several comments to explain... and besides, youre starting to bring irrelevant semantics into the original discussion which is "Why Its Time For Blacks To Walk Away From Christianity"

.

Every error I have shown you have made is in all the posts you made here. Everyone only has to read your posts to see you made these errors. In the immediate proceeding post you tried a scattergun post because your could not answer where I pointed out your errors. Now, because you still cannot answer these, you seek to cover your ass by retreating back to the topic. I said several times that you and GrayCap were off topic as did others.

.

PS this is the first response to a Google search on English Language:

.

English language - Wikipedia "English is a West Germanic language first spoken in early medieval England, which has eventually become the leading language of international discourse in the 21st century.[3][4][5] It is named after the Angles, one of the ancient Germanic peoples that migrated to the area of Great Britain that later took their name, England. Both names derive from Anglia, a peninsula on the Baltic Sea. English is most closely related to Frisian and Low Saxon, while its vocabulary has been significantly influenced by other Germanic languages, particularly Old Norse (a North Germanic language), as well as Latin and French.[6][7][8]"

.

And I note you failed to understand the Latin for son is filius and for sun is sol. Only an idiot thinks they have wisdom others don't have when theiy make such beginner errors and cannot consider the possibility that they could be wrong.

[Edited 3/26/21 14:01pm]

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Reply #104 posted 03/26/21 1:57pm

AMERICA1ST

In America, one of the few things that has saved blacks from going the way of the American Indian is Christianity. It is still the last moral foundation of black American culture - and those who have an interest in diverting blacks away from it most certainly mean them no good. I am not religious - I am realist.

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Reply #105 posted 03/26/21 2:07pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

After you made the beginners error in regards to son and sun. After you claimed that just because there is "unlimited" evidence that the Sumerians existed so their Gods must have also existed. After you claimed that English is a modern Latin with no evidence. After you failed at basic maths by saying 325 AD was 400 years after 33 AD. After you failed to understand the Trinity by imagining that this means some three headed thing. After you failed at geography by thinking Nicea is in Europe. After you made up that because the King James Bible is in English, all Bibles orginally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and translated initially to Latin must have the homonyms that only occur in English. After you failed in interpretative logic to understand Jesus' teaching that point to the why the concept of the Trinity exists.

.

After all this you now want to assume that people born and bred in Egypt, the Middle East and the area now known as Turkey who are well documented as being in senior positions in the Church before Constantine and afterwards (including as attendees at the Council of Nicea) that they cannot be Eqyptians or people from the Middle East and the area now know as Turkey.

.

After that you make up that teachings like the Beatitudes and the Great Commandments etc are a warlord militarisation of Old Testament laws.

.

And then you complain that people can't answer you. I bet they did answer you but you just could not accept how wrong your evidence-less assumptions and plain and simple factual errors clearly are.

.

PS The Christians put together the Old Testament - It is the canonical Torah (limited to the first 5 books AKA Pentateuch) and Nevi'im with selected poetical books and Megitt scrolls from the Ketuvim. The Jewish People did not accept many of the items in the Ketuvim as Canonical until the 3rd Century AD.

[Edited 3/26/21 5:00am]

one thing you mentioned that is hilarious, is that the old testament peoples were christian...thats assinine to say, when there wasnt even a Christ figure yet...how can there be a "Christian" when the person that they named the religion after wasnt even born or named yet??.

.

Show me the post where you got so confused by what I said that you could be so unable to comprehend English to think I said the Hebrew people before Christ were Christian.

.

This is a perfect example of why I said people have answered you, but it was just beyond your ken to understand them.

[Edited 3/26/21 14:13pm]

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Reply #106 posted 03/26/21 2:12pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

IanRG said:

.

After you made the beginners error in regards to son and sun. After you claimed that just because there is "unlimited" evidence that the Sumerians existed so their Gods must have also existed. After you claimed that English is a modern Latin with no evidence. After you failed at basic maths by saying 325 AD was 400 years after 33 AD. After you failed to understand the Trinity by imagining that this means some three headed thing. After you failed at geography by thinking Nicea is in Europe. After you made up that because the King James Bible is in English, all Bibles orginally written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and translated initially to Latin must have the homonyms that only occur in English. After you failed in interpretative logic to understand Jesus' teaching that point to the why the concept of the Trinity exists.

.

After all this you now want to assume that people born and bred in Egypt, the Middle East and the area now known as Turkey who are well documented as being in senior positions in the Church before Constantine and afterwards (including as attendees at the Council of Nicea) that they cannot be Eqyptians or people from the Middle East and the area now know as Turkey.

.

After that you make up that teachings like the Beatitudes and the Great Commandments etc are a warlord militarisation of Old Testament laws.

.

And then you complain that people can't answer you. I bet they did answer you but you just could not accept how wrong your evidence-less assumptions and plain and simple factual errors clearly are.

.

PS The Christians put together the Old Testament - It is the canonical Torah (limited to the first 5 books AKA Pentateuch) and Nevi'im with selected poetical books and Megitt scrolls from the Ketuvim. The Jewish People did not accept many of the items in the Ketuvim as Canonical until the 3rd Century AD.

[Edited 3/26/21 5:00am]

and if you say there are no Sumerian artifacts that have been preserved, youre flat out lying.

.

But obviously I did NOT say that there were no Sumerian artifacts, this your failure to understand English again. I said:

.

Reply #52 posted 03/23/21 1:16pm

IanRG¤

Graycap23 said:

jaawwnn said:

So anyway, who or what is Enil & Enki? It's not a religion or type of spirituality i've come across before. Googling only comes up with Mesopotamian myths and maybe something to do with aliens (???), what's the deal?


[Edited 3/23/21 11:07am]

Unlike myths with no tangible history, The Summarian history is here for all 2 see.

Texts and artifacts, NOT made up nonsense. If u are interested in facts, here is a good start.

Do any of these artifacts look like myths?

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/sumerian-artifacts?phrase=sumerian%20artifacts&sort=best

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_literature

.

That the Summerians existed and left artifacts does not mean that they did not have myths.

.

Nothing in a set of archeological photos and a Wikipedia list of Summerian stories and myths shows why you believe that Enlil and Enki is fact and all other myths are nonsense.

.

Back to the topic: This book appears to be nothing more than the athiest equivalent of all those far right commentators attacking the block of Black Americans who vote Democrat because those commentators have different beliefs and they think others should follow their's instead. And yet the OP complains about others evangelising their beliefs.

.

See each and every denial of your errors is only by you further making up things I did not say.

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Reply #107 posted 03/26/21 5:42pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

https://obu.edu/stories/blog/2020/06/what-does-the-bible-say-about-race.php

'The main points of this study [7] can be synthesized into the following points:

  1. The biblical world was multi-ethnic, and numerous different ethnic groups, including Black Africans, were involved in God’s unfolding plan of redemption.
  2. All people are created in the image of God, and therefore all races and ethnic groups have the same equal status and equal unique value.
  3. Inter-ethnic marriages are sanctioned by Scripture when they are within the faith.
  4. The gospel demands that we carry compassion and the message of Christ across ethnic lines.
  5. The NT teaches that as Christians we are all unified together “in Christ,” regardless of our differing ethnicities. Furthermore, our primary concept of self-identity should not be our ethnicity, but our membership as part of the body and family of Christ.
  6. The picture of God’s people at the climax of history depicts a multi-ethnic congregation from every tribe, language, people, and nation, all gathered together in worship around God’s throne.'

Life Matters
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Reply #108 posted 03/26/21 6:27pm

Graycap23

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:

https://obu.edu/stories/blog/2020/06/what-does-the-bible-say-about-race.php

'The main points of this study [7] can be synthesized into the following points:

  1. The biblical world was multi-ethnic, and numerous different ethnic groups, including Black Africans, were involved in God’s unfolding plan of redemption.
  2. All people are created in the image of God, and therefore all races and ethnic groups have the same equal status and equal unique value.
  3. Inter-ethnic marriages are sanctioned by Scripture when they are within the faith.
  4. The gospel demands that we carry compassion and the message of Christ across ethnic lines.
  5. The NT teaches that as Christians we are all unified together “in Christ,” regardless of our differing ethnicities. Furthermore, our primary concept of self-identity should not be our ethnicity, but our membership as part of the body and family of Christ.
  6. The picture of God’s people at the climax of history depicts a multi-ethnic congregation from every tribe, language, people, and nation, all gathered together in worship around God’s throne.'

F A N T A S Y

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #109 posted 03/26/21 8:11pm

IanRG

TrivialPursuit said:

I wanted to add something to this, adding to my Black Jesus notes earlier: I'm watching The Black Church: This Is Our Story, This Is Our Song (available on the PBS app). It's hosted and produced by Henry Gates, Jr.

There are a lot of interesting notes they make about Blacks being brought here, and how the Black church eventually came together. It didn't just happen.

One note they made was how people say Black people "came here with nothing." That's simply not true. Black folks came here with a rich culture and heritage. But the whites filtered it and saw it as worthless, so of course it was "nothing." But Black people came here with Muslim faith and others. So that's already white supremacy affecting how the faiths of Black people were treated.

Later, one moment talked about how everyone has a god that looks like them, except Black people. Author Rev. Martha Simmons talked about Bishop Henry McNeal Turner had a sermon that addressed this. It was the fall of 1895 in Atlanta. Turner was described as always being on a radical edge of the Black church, and on that night in 1895 delivered a blistering sermon at the first gathering of the National Baptist Convention. He asked those in the room to see God in a radical new way. And it did not go over well.

Turner said, in part, "I worship a Negro God. I believe God is a Negro. Negroes should worship a God who is a Negro."

Simmons commented on Turner's new Black theology. "He has a line where he says, 'Lord have mercy on any race of people who do not believe they look like God.' And I think that sums up so much of what the Black church as fought its way through and has been fighting for. And that is to have its people see themselves as important to God, as not less than. And Henry McNeal Turner, he got that."

.

About 9 years ago I sat down with some elders in the local Indigenous Australian community and they explained the Trinity in line with their traditions spiritual beliefs - specifically the Creator God known as the Rainbow Serpent in most Australian First Nations Dreamtime Stories:

.

God, The Father is as the Rainbow Serpent as the Creator as shown by the trail of the Milky Way in the sky.

.

God, The Son is as the Rainbow Serpent on Earth as shown by the reflection of the Rainbow Serpent above on the snaking rivers and waterways.

.

God, The Holy Spirit is as the Rainbow Serpent guiding people.

.

This is by no means a universal view amongst Indigenous Australians, Christian or not. There was some controversy when a Christian Indigenous Australian who ran an Art Gallery refused to display Rainbow Serpent Art around 2000. However, for these Elders, being able to link this to beliefs older than the Sumerian's they has little problem with the concept.

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Reply #110 posted 03/26/21 10:15pm

uPtoWnNY

TrivialPursuit said:

Later, one moment talked about how everyone has a god that looks like them, except Black people.

That's when I started to question things....in college, I attended a lecture by Dr. Ben, and he talked about the myth of the blonde-haired, blue-eyed jesus and how that image was used to conquer and brainwash indigenous peoples. Eventually I said good-bye to religion, all of them. One of the best decisions I've made.

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Reply #111 posted 03/27/21 6:45am

2elijah

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:

https://obu.edu/stories/blog/2020/06/what-does-the-bible-say-about-race.php

'The main points of this study [7] can be synthesized into the following points:



  1. The biblical world was multi-ethnic, and numerous different ethnic groups, including Black Africans, were involved in God’s unfolding plan of redemption.

  2. All people are created in the image of God, and therefore all races and ethnic groups have the same equal status and equal unique value.

  3. Inter-ethnic marriages are sanctioned by Scripture when they are within the faith.

  4. The gospel demands that we carry compassion and the message of Christ across ethnic lines.

  5. The NT teaches that as Christians we are all unified together “in Christ,” regardless of our differing ethnicities. ^Furthermore, our primary concept of self-identity should not be our ethnicity, but our membership as part of the body and family of Christ.

  6. The picture of God’s people at the climax of history depicts a multi-ethnic congregation from every tribe, language, people, and nation, all gathered together in worship around God’s throne.'



How’s that holding true or working out in this society, especially all over the world you will find societies, that use race classification systems to deny equality to many of a different hue? Humans have been murdered (and it is still happening) for their race/religious beliefs.

However, I agree with UptownNY that Christianity has been/is often used to manipulate many, in various ways for control/power/greed.
[Edited 3/27/21 7:32am]
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #112 posted 03/27/21 8:57am

uPtoWnNY

2elijah said:

However, I agree with UptownNY that Christianity has been/is often used to manipulate many, in various ways for control/power/greed. [Edited 3/27/21 7:32am]

Tim Wise has said that many times. Approximately 79% of black Americans identify themselves as christian(more than any other ethnicity). Slightly more than half believe the bible should be taken literally. What those folks should do is redefine christianity & christ for themselves.

According to Newsweek, 94% of non-religious black Americans say they still believe in god or a higher power. Only 3% identify as atheist or agnostic. I'm happy to be part of that tiny percentage. biggrin

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Reply #113 posted 03/27/21 9:03am

CherryMoon57

avatar

2elijah said:

CherryMoon57 said:

https://obu.edu/stories/blog/2020/06/what-does-the-bible-say-about-race.php

'The main points of this study [7] can be synthesized into the following points:

  1. The biblical world was multi-ethnic, and numerous different ethnic groups, including Black Africans, were involved in God’s unfolding plan of redemption.
  2. All people are created in the image of God, and therefore all races and ethnic groups have the same equal status and equal unique value.
  3. Inter-ethnic marriages are sanctioned by Scripture when they are within the faith.
  4. The gospel demands that we carry compassion and the message of Christ across ethnic lines.
  5. The NT teaches that as Christians we are all unified together “in Christ,” regardless of our differing ethnicities. ^Furthermore, our primary concept of self-identity should not be our ethnicity, but our membership as part of the body and family of Christ.
  6. The picture of God’s people at the climax of history depicts a multi-ethnic congregation from every tribe, language, people, and nation, all gathered together in worship around God’s throne.'

How’s that holding true or working out in this society, especially all over the world you will find societies, that use race classification systems to deny equality to of a different hue? Humans have been murdered (and it is still happening) for their race/religious beliefs. However, I agree with UptownNY that Christianity has been/is often used to manipulate many, in various ways for control/power/greed. [Edited 3/27/21 7:32am]

The race classification system you are talking about is not taught in the Bible. Unfortunately God's will for humanity isn't always the model followed in our societies.

Life Matters
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Reply #114 posted 03/27/21 9:29am

2elijah

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:



2elijah said:


CherryMoon57 said:

https://obu.edu/stories/blog/2020/06/what-does-the-bible-say-about-race.php

'The main points of this study [7] can be synthesized into the following points:



  1. The biblical world was multi-ethnic, and numerous different ethnic groups, including Black Africans, were involved in God’s unfolding plan of redemption.

  2. All people are created in the image of God, and therefore all races and ethnic groups have the same equal status and equal unique value.

  3. Inter-ethnic marriages are sanctioned by Scripture when they are within the faith.

  4. The gospel demands that we carry compassion and the message of Christ across ethnic lines.

  5. The NT teaches that as Christians we are all unified together “in Christ,” regardless of our differing ethnicities. ^Furthermore, our primary concept of self-identity should not be our ethnicity, but our membership as part of the body and family of Christ.

  6. The picture of God’s people at the climax of history depicts a multi-ethnic congregation from every tribe, language, people, and nation, all gathered together in worship around God’s throne.'




How’s that holding true or working out in this society, especially all over the world you will find societies, that use race classification systems to deny equality to different hues? Humans have been murdered (and it is still happening) for their race/religious beliefs. However, I agree with UptownNY that Christianity has been/is often used to manipulate many, in various ways for control/power/greed. [Edited 3/27/21 7:32am]

The race classification system you are talking about is not taught in the Bible. Unfortunately God's will for humanity isn't always the model followed in our societies.


Yes, well that’s obvious.
PRESIDENT BIDEN, VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS clapping
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Reply #115 posted 03/27/21 9:35am

CherryMoon57

avatar

2elijah said:

CherryMoon57 said:

The race classification system you are talking about is not taught in the Bible. Unfortunately God's will for humanity isn't always the model followed in our societies.

Yes, well that’s obvious.

Clearly not to everyone though.

Life Matters
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Reply #116 posted 03/27/21 9:35am

RJOrion

2elijah said:

CherryMoon57 said:

The race classification system you are talking about is not taught in the Bible. Unfortunately God's will for humanity isn't always the model followed in our societies.

Yes, well that’s obvious.

LMAO...word

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Reply #117 posted 03/27/21 9:44am

jaawwnn

avatar

Graycap23 said:

RJOrion said:

why would ANY logical or reasonably intelligent person of color follow the Eurpean teachings of religion, spirituality or GOD?...these are the people who have for centuries openly hated us...Europeans are guilty of rapes, lynchings, enslavement, stolen names, stolen rituals, stolen land, stolen resources, mass murderings, misinformation, deception, destruction, pestilence, etc...all these atrocities were committed against the black man (and other darker races) by the European and their descaendants... and we're supposed to let these people tell us who God is????.... thats like getting tips on how to raise your child from a convicted child molester... thats the epitome of gullibilty and foolishness

Game, Set, Match.



You are both mixing together about two thousand years of a huge variety of different cultures all fighting each other into an absolutely incoherent muddle that you seem to think is all singularly based around the trans atlantic slave trade, which didn't even exist until about 1600 of those two thousand years had passed.

You claim to hate ignorance but all you apparently want to do is revel in it. "European" isn't a thing at the level you are talking about, you need to be much more specific.

Here's a piece worth reading:

There is no such thing as western civilisation

The values of liberty, tolerance and rational inquiry are not the birthright of a single culture. In fact, the very notion of something called ‘western culture’ is a modern invention



https://www.theguardian.c...th-lecture







[Edited 3/27/21 9:48am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #118 posted 03/27/21 10:03am

RJOrion

jaawwnn said:

Graycap23 said:

Game, Set, Match.



You are both mixing together about two thousand years of a huge variety of different cultures all fighting each other into an absolutely incoherent muddle that you seem to think is all singularly based around the trans atlantic slave trade, which didn't even exist until about 1600 of those two thousand years had passed.

You claim to hate ignorance but all you apparently want to do is revel in it. "European" isn't a thing at the level you are talking about, you need to be much more specific.

Here's a piece worth reading:

There is no such thing as western civilisation

The values of liberty, tolerance and rational inquiry are not the birthright of a single culture. In fact, the very notion of something called ‘western culture’ is a modern invention



https://www.theguardian.c...th-lecture







[Edited 3/27/21 9:48am]

im not mixing up anything at all, and neither is he . The Europeans who constructed all these historical lies and propaganda, are the ones that mixed stuff up...intentionally or otherwise...and the case has BEEN closed...for hundreds of years now... convince yourself because im solid, ten toes down, in my wisdom and knowledge

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Reply #119 posted 03/27/21 10:19am

RJOrion

of course those of European descent and those who are firm in their "Christian" beliefs will differ and argue and take issue with my (and others) comments in this thread...and they may try to debate and sway opinions and/or beliefs ....but thats to be expected... and mostly ignored....our people have followed their lies and oppressive tactics for centuries, to the extreme detriment of our own race and culture... so YES, its time to not only walk away from Christianity, but RUN away from it...like yesterday

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