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Thread started 02/09/21 8:04am

Monarch

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Need a Jehovahs Witness

How does the Watchtower Society deal with the Septuagint? Also what about Divine Counsel / Deut 32 worldview? & lastly (sorry for so many questions) the pre 1st century rabbinical teaching of Binitarianism (Godhead)?



- your brother in Christ
Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
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Reply #1 posted 02/09/21 11:07am

2freaky4church
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You know they are a cult, right?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #2 posted 02/09/21 11:34am

Monarch

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2freaky4church1 said:

You know they are a cult, right?





I have legitimate questions about the New World Translation as it relates to the Septuagint, ancient 2 powers theology before Jesus by the priesthood. & how would Divine Counsel language in Deut 32 & Psalms 82 work out. The entire belief structure is based on a translation done in secret without peer review. While modern scholarly efforts marvel @ how good the masorites did (not saying it was perfect, we have even better older sources since then). We have more evidence backing the OT than there is the existence of Julius Ceaser. Their biggest claims are against the Greek translations of the NT. Which is incredible because we have redundant copies going back to the 2nd century all agreeing with each other.

Let me stress I’m not attacking the church. I’m asking them to tackle these issues.
Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
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Reply #3 posted 02/13/21 6:47pm

onlyforaminute

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Honestly it's been a very long time since I've seen a JW in these parts answer a direct question. They usually just post their official website link and keep it moving.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #4 posted 02/16/21 3:12am

Monarch

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onlyforaminute said:

Honestly it's been a very long time since I've seen a JW in these parts answer a direct question. They usually just post their official website link and keep it moving.



Well if the website deals with my questions, I’m listening.
Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
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Reply #5 posted 02/16/21 12:38pm

IanRG

Monarch said:

onlyforaminute said:
Honestly it's been a very long time since I've seen a JW in these parts answer a direct question. They usually just post their official website link and keep it moving.
Well if the website deals with my questions, I’m listening.

.

The JWs focus on their own teachings, their new light, not Christian teaching. Their Bible is a mix of quite reasonable translation and deliberate significant changes to make it say things in line with its new light. Things like changing how the Bible references Jesus and when Thomas says My Lord and My God, they add a comma and an imagined looking up so it is My Lord looking at Jesus and then My God looking up.

.

It is their belief that you will loose faith within 3 years by faithfully reading the Bible (even their's) and not reading the teachings by the Watchtower Org. On this basis they do not need to address the questions you ask, they follow the teachings and interpretations of the Watchtower Org.

.

To be fair, this is how many Jewish people see the Christian focus on the Gospels and Epistles.

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Reply #6 posted 02/17/21 8:42am

onlyforaminute

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Monarch said:

onlyforaminute said:

Honestly it's been a very long time since I've seen a JW in these parts answer a direct question. They usually just post their official website link and keep it moving.



Well if the website deals with my questions, I’m listening.

Yeah I've still never seen any (anywhere) engage beyond the basics and here that has been a few years before Prince passed. I've gotten the impression they are taught not to do so. You have to go into their domain either website or bible study to get direct questions answered.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #7 posted 02/17/21 9:33am

IanRG

onlyforaminute said:

Monarch said:
Well if the website deals with my questions, I’m listening.
Yeah I've still never seen any (anywhere) engage beyond the basics and here that has been a few years before Prince passed. I've gotten the impression they are taught not to do so. You have to go into their domain either website or bible study to get direct questions answered.

.

They are taught that in their engaging in evangelisation that the objective is as per Matthew 28:19 - to baptise others. If this results in engaging with people that cause the JW to question the teaching of the Watchtower Org, this risks apostacy, so they cease to engage. If you question from within, say within a Bible study group once you have been baptised, ultimately you will be put into apostacy and all your JW friends and family will be required to break all links and shut you out.

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Reply #8 posted 02/17/21 9:56am

onlyforaminute

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IanRG said:



onlyforaminute said:


Monarch said:
Well if the website deals with my questions, I’m listening.

Yeah I've still never seen any (anywhere) engage beyond the basics and here that has been a few years before Prince passed. I've gotten the impression they are taught not to do so. You have to go into their domain either website or bible study to get direct questions answered.

.


They are taught that in their engaging in evangelisation that the objective is as per Matthew 28:19 - to baptise others. If this results in engaging with people that cause the JW to question the teaching of the Watchtower Org, this risks apostacy, so they cease to engage. If you question from within, say within a Bible study group once you have been baptised, ultimately you will be put into apostacy and all your JW friends and family will be required to break all links and shut you out.


Yeah, I've always seen them as being very restrictive. Moreso thsn the beginnings of the denomination I grew up in which could dictate so much of individual expression. I've always wondered what drew Prince to that much restriction. It seemed such a severe shift.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #9 posted 02/21/21 11:24pm

Monarch

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As far as what drew him to it. Please understand anything I say is speculation. After reading Mayte’s book I think dealing with pain may have been a factor. It seems prince already had a rudimentary faith in the god of Christianity (just no major decision or acting on it). So many people unknowingly consider the JW church as Christianity. & I think the initial Bible studies probably sell that. The brainwashing on the other hand happens over time. I think Prince was an intelligent independent thinking adult, but in his effort to look for answers to help him deal with his son & the other ills of the condition of life he fell victim to the Watchtower.

It’s a common pattern hearing the rich & famous talk about how empty they feel. Morris Days book talks about how the fantasy, money & excess soon just doesn’t do it for you anymore. Christianity can deal with those issues. Or should I say Jesus helps with these issues as it’s a personal relationship based “religion”.


onlyforaminute said:

IanRG said:



onlyforaminute said:


Monarch said:
Well if the website deals with my questions, I’m listening.

Yeah I've still never seen any (anywhere) engage beyond the basics and here that has been a few years before Prince passed. I've gotten the impression they are taught not to do so. You have to go into their domain either website or bible study to get direct questions answered.

.


They are taught that in their engaging in evangelisation that the objective is as per Matthew 28:19 - to baptise others. If this results in engaging with people that cause the JW to question the teaching of the Watchtower Org, this risks apostacy, so they cease to engage. If you question from within, say within a Bible study group once you have been baptised, ultimately you will be put into apostacy and all your JW friends and family will be required to break all links and shut you out.


Yeah, I've always seen them as being very restrictive. Moreso thsn the beginnings of the denomination I grew up in which could dictate so much of individual expression. I've always wondered what drew Prince to that much restriction. It seemed such a severe shift.



*Edit. It’s late I accidentally put my response up top. Too tired to fix it
[Edited 2/21/21 23:25pm]
Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
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Reply #10 posted 02/22/21 6:20am

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

Had a JW colleague who used to chat in the kitchen all the time about her faith and what they were doing (she literally is on the building site building a new church or whatever the right term is) but when the other JW came in she'd stop talking and scuttle out, so def think maybe chatting about the faith may be forbidden?
[Edited 2/22/21 6:21am]
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Reply #11 posted 02/22/21 8:14am

Monarch

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*comment snipped by OP. Making fun of Jehovah’s Witnesses isn’t gonna get anywhere nor will it communicate that we love or care about them. They are good smart people who are earnestly seeking God.
[Edited 2/22/21 10:11am]
Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
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Reply #12 posted 02/23/21 9:36am

onlyforaminute

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Monarch said:

As far as what drew him to it. Please understand anything I say is speculation. After reading Mayte’s book I think dealing with pain may have been a factor. It seems prince already had a rudimentary faith in the god of Christianity (just no major decision or acting on it). So many people unknowingly consider the JW church as Christianity. & I think the initial Bible studies probably sell that. The brainwashing on the other hand happens over time. I think Prince was an intelligent independent thinking adult, but in his effort to look for answers to help him deal with his son & the other ills of the condition of life he fell victim to the Watchtower.

It’s a common pattern hearing the rich & famous talk about how empty they feel. Morris Days book talks about how the fantasy, money & excess soon just doesn’t do it for you anymore. Christianity can deal with those issues. Or should I say Jesus helps with these issues as it’s a personal relationship based “religion”.


onlyforaminute said:


Yeah, I've always seen them as being very restrictive. Moreso thsn the beginnings of the denomination I grew up in which could dictate so much of individual expression. I've always wondered what drew Prince to that much restriction. It seemed such a severe shift.



*Edit. It’s late I accidentally put my response up top. Too tired to fix it
[Edited 2/21/21 23:25pm]


That industry is awashed with various religious/spiritual leadership and self help gurus of all kinds of flavors. I'm sure he was courted by several especially at that point in his life. Yet one of the most rebellious figures in the industry chooses one of the most rigid doctrines to be a part of and he was in it for a very long time. Something about it must have really appealed to his core self.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #13 posted 02/23/21 3:48pm

Astasheiks

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IanRG said:

onlyforaminute said:

Monarch said: Yeah I've still never seen any (anywhere) engage beyond the basics and here that has been a few years before Prince passed. I've gotten the impression they are taught not to do so. You have to go into their domain either website or bible study to get direct questions answered.

.

They are taught that in their engaging in evangelisation that the objective is as per Matthew 28:19 - to baptise others. If this results in engaging with people that cause the JW to question the teaching of the Watchtower Org, this risks apostacy, so they cease to engage. If you question from within, say within a Bible study group once you have been baptised, ultimately you will be put into apostacy and all your JW friends and family will be required to break all links and shut you out.

Been interesting if P would have sent the JW's his walking papers and see how they would have repsonded?

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Reply #14 posted 02/23/21 5:18pm

onlyforaminute

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Astasheiks said:



IanRG said:




onlyforaminute said:


Monarch said: Yeah I've still never seen any (anywhere) engage beyond the basics and here that has been a few years before Prince passed. I've gotten the impression they are taught not to do so. You have to go into their domain either website or bible study to get direct questions answered.

.


They are taught that in their engaging in evangelisation that the objective is as per Matthew 28:19 - to baptise others. If this results in engaging with people that cause the JW to question the teaching of the Watchtower Org, this risks apostacy, so they cease to engage. If you question from within, say within a Bible study group once you have been baptised, ultimately you will be put into apostacy and all your JW friends and family will be required to break all links and shut you out.




Been interesting if P would have sent the JW's his walking papers and see how they would have repsonded?


MJ did it in the 80s. It was in the papers.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #15 posted 02/24/21 5:41am

Monarch

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onlyforaminute said:

Monarch said:

As far as what drew him to it. Please understand anything I say is speculation. After reading Mayte’s book I think dealing with pain may have been a factor. It seems prince already had a rudimentary faith in the god of Christianity (just no major decision or acting on it). So many people unknowingly consider the JW church as Christianity. & I think the initial Bible studies probably sell that. The brainwashing on the other hand happens over time. I think Prince was an intelligent independent thinking adult, but in his effort to look for answers to help him deal with his son & the other ills of the condition of life he fell victim to the Watchtower.

It’s a common pattern hearing the rich & famous talk about how empty they feel. Morris Days book talks about how the fantasy, money & excess soon just doesn’t do it for you anymore. Christianity can deal with those issues. Or should I say Jesus helps with these issues as it’s a personal relationship based “religion”.




*Edit. It’s late I accidentally put my response up top. Too tired to fix it
[Edited 2/21/21 23:25pm]


That industry is awashed with various religious/spiritual leadership and self help gurus of all kinds of flavors. I'm sure he was courted by several especially at that point in his life. Yet one of the most rebellious figures in the industry chooses one of the most rigid doctrines to be a part of and he was in it for a very long time. Something about it must have really appealed to his core self.





Exactly. What pulled him? He was the last person I’d ever would have imagined would go for that. Was he desperate when his son died? You’d think he would have clung to Mayte. I understand there policy over non believing spouses but he was barely into the process @ that point. Mayte had no explanation in her book I think she’s as confused as an outsider.
Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
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Reply #16 posted 02/25/21 5:57pm

onlyforaminute

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Monarch said:

onlyforaminute said:



That industry is awashed with various religious/spiritual leadership and self help gurus of all kinds of flavors. I'm sure he was courted by several especially at that point in his life. Yet one of the most rebellious figures in the industry chooses one of the most rigid doctrines to be a part of and he was in it for a very long time. Something about it must have really appealed to his core self.





Exactly. What pulled him? He was the last person I’d ever would have imagined would go for that. Was he desperate when his son died? You’d think he would have clung to Mayte. I understand there policy over non believing spouses but he was barely into the process @ that point. Mayte had no explanation in her book I think she’s as confused as an outsider.

She was catholic iirc but doesn't seem he showed interest in going that direction. I know people have said his interest in 3rd eye type spirituality showed he was moving away but he was talking about 3rd eye before he officially committed to the JWs. I'd say he thought long and hard about it.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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