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Thread started 12/27/20 5:32pm

v10letblues

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Trump fed our worst instincts. His global legacy is toxic and immoral

With the Trump era coming to an end, we are seeing news outlets posting their postscripts of the Trump era. And of course, obviously, it is ugly.

Here are a couple published by The Guardian and others..

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Trump fed our worst instincts. His global legacy is toxic and immoral

https://www.theguardian.c...nd-immoral

The US president rampaged across the world, leaving a trail of random destruction, division and conflict in his wake

Donald and Melania Trump walk to board Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on Wednesday to travel to Florida for the festive break. Photograph: Evan Vucci/AP
Sun 27 Dec 2020 05.00 EST

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How much damage did Donal...its wake. Last week’s wild pardoning spree is a case in point.

First, the big picture. Trump’s confrontational manner, combined with his “America First” agenda, seriously undermined transatlantic relations and US global leadership. Joe Biden promises to set this right, but it will not be easy. France’s Emmanuel Macron exploited US introspection to advance ideas of European autonomy and integration. Leaders in the UK, Hungary and Poland cynically flattered Trump for their own political purposes.

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Americans’ acceptance of Trump’s behavior will be his vilest legacy

https://www.theguardian.c...est-legacy

Trump has brought impunity to the highest office in the land, wielding a wrecking ball to American democracy

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Most of the 74,222,957 Americans who voted to re-elect Donald Trump – 46.8%of the votes cast in the 2020 presidential election – don’t hold Trump accountable for what he’s done to America.

Their acceptance of Trump’s behavior will be his vilest legacy.

Nearly forty years ago, political scientist James Q Wilson and criminologist George Kelling observed that a broken window left unattended in a community signals that no one cares if windows are broken there. The broken window is thereby an invitation to throw more stones and break more windows.

The message: do whatever you want here because others have done it and got away with it.

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Trump’s Most Malicious Legacy

The outgoing president leaves behind a tribalistic, distrustful, and sometimes delusional political culture.

DECEMBER 7, 2020
Contributing writer at The Atlantic and senior fellow at EPPC

https://www.theatlantic.c...cy/617319/

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INTER / THE NEW YORK TIMES / REDUX

“We are entering into an epistemological crisis,” Barack Obama recently told my colleague Jeffrey Goldberg.

The crisis didn’t begin with the Trump presidency, but it rapidly accelerated over the course of its term—and the situation has, if anything, grown worse in the aftermath of the presidential election.

According to one poll, 70 percent of Republicans say they don’t believe that the 2020 election was free and fair. According to another, 77 percent of Trump backers say President-elect Joe Biden won because of fraud. And a Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 68 percent of Republicans said they were concerned that the 2020 election was “rigged,” and that only 29 percent believed that Biden had “rightfully won.” More than half of Republicans said Trump “rightfully won” but the election was stolen from him because of widespread voter fraud that favored Biden, claims that are hallucinatory.

This may be Donald Trump’s most enduring legacy—a nihilistic political culture, one that is tribalistic, distrustful, and sometimes delusional, swimming in conspiracy theories. The result is that Americans are disoriented and frustrated, fearful of and often enraged at one another.

Trump’s legacy is the plague of extreme lies. Truth-based media is the vaccine

https://www.theguardian.c...he-vaccine

The toxic politics of conspiracies and lies did not start four years ago and will live on beyond Trump. But we can protect ourselves and reward the truth


[Edited 12/27/20 17:44pm]

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Reply #1 posted 12/28/20 7:28am

2elijah

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^^^^Very toxic.
Always smile in the face of adversity. smile
America gave Trump his eviction notice on 11/3/20, and now he’s the only president in U.S. history to be impeached twice.
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Reply #2 posted 12/28/20 10:25pm

IanRG

Hopefully trump's loss will enable the GOP to address this in the USA. And we can address it in our countries

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The toxic impact on Australia is measurable - ASIO used to spend 10 to 15% of its time on preventing domestic far right terrorism. It now spends 40% of its time preventing the fascists and far right anti-government nut jobs.

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We already had the Murdoch press issues as Murdoch learned his tricks and manipulative techniques in Australia before going to the USA.

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The rise of QAnon conspiracy theorists has also been seen in Australia

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The one saving grace for us is our equivalents of trump - Pauline Hanson's One Nation party (Yeah, I know, she does not even attempt to hide it), Clive Palmers United Australia Party and the Australian Conservatives are failing in the elections and polls. The attempt by the far right Peter Dutton to take the leadership and Prime Ministership in the Liberal Party failed because he has had a charisma and intelligence by-pass.

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Reply #3 posted 12/29/20 2:57am

v10letblues

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Let's just say his legacy world wide is not good. lol

The thing is, as with W, ut was obvious from the get-go how it would end. I have a friend who is still in the military as a reservist and and to this day questions "how was anyone supposed to know?"

I roll my eyes and smile and tell him to stop living in his Fox News bubble, that's how.

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Reply #4 posted 12/30/20 5:40pm

v10letblues

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GW Bush left the US on the brink of a catastrophe and a laughingstock around the world.

Trump likewise.

Took/wasetd $18 BILLION from the military to build 3 miles of wall. Mexico certainy never paid it.

Must have failed every business course he ever took to fail at every financial endeavor he has ever conned his way into. And squandered all of his daddy's money.

His legacy as toxic conman with hate as currency is set in stone.

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Reply #5 posted 12/31/20 1:49am

uPtoWnNY

This poster from The Guardian forum nailed it perfectly;

"People give Trump far too much credit. He's an opportunist in the right place at the right time. Instead of wondering - pointlessly - what his legacy might be (I'd wager there won't be much of one), why not ask what it was about American society that allowed him to become president in the first place. After all, things don't happen in a vacuum, he was the product of a sickness at the heart of the US political class and decades of unresolved social issues; the same ones that have seen the continued decline of the US' reputation since somewhere around Vietnam."

The 'sickness' didn't just start with Trump - it goes back decades. Nixon, Reagan, Bush - as JJ once said, the only difference between them and Trump is Trump had a bigger megaphone. But the message/rhetoric is the same. The question is why do folks keep buying into it?

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Reply #6 posted 12/31/20 2:49am

v10letblues

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^
He was aided by a lot of folks with megaphones. An entire “news” network, A clickbait network of “commentators” on radio and the internet who also peddle hate.
And aided to the extent that some feel so much privilege that they can commit crimes for him with impunity. And that sadly was the case. People committed crimes for him, got caught, convicted in courts of law, but were then bailed out by that privilege.
Obstruction of justice on every level.
Scary and sad. We show all be worried.
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It certainly doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
There is a lot aiding and abetting.
[Edited 12/31/20 2:55am]
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Reply #7 posted 12/31/20 3:12am

IanRG

uPtoWnNY said:

This poster from The Guardian forum nailed it perfectly;

"People give Trump far too much credit. He's an opportunist in the right place at the right time. Instead of wondering - pointlessly - what his legacy might be (I'd wager there won't be much of one), why not ask what it was about American society that allowed him to become president in the first place. After all, things don't happen in a vacuum, he was the product of a sickness at the heart of the US political class and decades of unresolved social issues; the same ones that have seen the continued decline of the US' reputation since somewhere around Vietnam."

The 'sickness' didn't just start with Trump - it goes back decades. Nixon, Reagan, Bush - as JJ once said, the only difference between them and Trump is Trump had a bigger megaphone. But the message/rhetoric is the same. The question is why do folks keep buying into it?

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I understand what the Guardian poster means but trump is especially toxic and immoral.

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The degradation of the conservatives with the anti-Civil Rights and and anti-Feminists leading to the far-right "christians", then the Tea Party extremists aided by the rise of tele-evangelists, far-right radio stations then websites and TV "news" stations created an environment where trump could be selected despite a complete lack of skills (other than promoting an image able to be used against ordinary politicians), a complete lack interest (outside of self-interest) and a complete lack of integrity. Rather than a follow on from previous presidents, trump is just a follow on from image without ability reality celebrities like Paris Hilton and those who followed her and Big Brother style public voting off shows.

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As a former reality TV personality, trump's personal legacy should be short lived as people are fickle and will move on to the next personality -- This is unless he can transform himself into a far-right "news" personality. His global legacy is in how he has shown that reality personalities inspiring and supporting extremist can beat moderate politicians or politicians striving to fit the party cookie cutter mold. Also he showed how inadequate the normal checks and balances are when the person can inspire a cult of personality e.g. Where a group of anti-metrosexual misogynists known as the proud boys can be transformed into a terrorist far-right militia able to called to stand by and fight for a reality TV celebrity. Fortunately, many have tried to create an equivalent cult following and most have and will fail.

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Reply #8 posted 12/31/20 4:57am

SexyMuthaF

Trump haters have no idea what immoral is they support immoral antifa who takes over motels refuses to leave and causes owner to go out of business
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Reply #9 posted 12/31/20 5:10am

v10letblues

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SexyMuthaF said:

Trump haters have no idea what immoral is they support immoral antifa who takes over motels refuses to leave and causes owner to go out of business

There you go with your ANTIFA. You republicans love ANTIFA.

Never hear about them, only right wingers know anything about them.

You need your own boogieman to make you feel better about yourselves

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Reply #10 posted 12/31/20 5:32am

IanRG

SexyMuthaF said:

Trump haters have no idea what immoral is they support immoral antifa who takes over motels refuses to leave and causes owner to go out of business

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Immorality has nothing to do with partisan politics - except that imagining immorality is only by the other side is the height of immorality.

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How moral do you think trump is?

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Do you want to see the Dems use the tactics trump has used?

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Do you want to see leftist extremists seek to commit insurrection at a Dem President's call just because a GOP Governor does not do what that President wanted?

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Reply #11 posted 12/31/20 6:22am

SexyMuthaF

Nearly all politicians are immoral in some ways
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Reply #12 posted 12/31/20 6:56am

v10letblues

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SexyMuthaF said:

Nearly all politicians are immoral in some ways

lol

Everyone has a bit of douche in them right? As long as it's your man it's all good. If it's Trump, for you, anything goes.

You woud be supporting your favorite ANTIFA at the drop of a hat if Trump told you to.

He could shoot a baby in the face on 5th Ave and you would smile politely

Everyone shoots a baby in the face in some ways.

lol

[Edited 12/31/20 6:59am]

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Reply #13 posted 12/31/20 9:41am

uPtoWnNY

v10letblues said:

SexyMuthaF said:

Nearly all politicians are immoral in some ways

lol

Everyone has a bit of douche in them right? As long as it's your man it's all good. If it's Trump, for you, anything goes.

You woud be supporting your favorite ANTIFA at the drop of a hat if Trump told you to.

He could shoot a baby in the face on 5th Ave and you would smile politely

Everyone shoots a baby in the face in some ways.

lol

[Edited 12/31/20 6:59am]

yeahthat

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Reply #14 posted 12/31/20 1:30pm

IanRG

SexyMuthaF said:

Nearly all politicians are immoral in some ways

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Knowing this, why pretend that it is only the side you hate that you attack as not knowing what morality is, when to do so you have defended one of the least moral politicians ever - lame duck trump?

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Reply #15 posted 12/31/20 2:15pm

SexyMuthaF

I dont hate anybody or anything
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Reply #16 posted 12/31/20 2:17pm

IanRG

SexyMuthaF said:

I dont hate anybody or anything

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You hide your lack of hate far too well.

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Reply #17 posted 12/31/20 2:22pm

SexyMuthaF

I am the only one who admits and criticizes mistakes and behavior on both sides show me one time where you praised trump or criticized dems I'll wait
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Reply #18 posted 12/31/20 2:53pm

IanRG

SexyMuthaF said:

I am the only one who admits and criticizes mistakes and behavior on both sides show me one time where you praised trump or criticized dems I'll wait

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What a load of rot. This thread is about trump but you showed your hate of the Dems by deflecting to how bad they were for not arguing against some made up: Attributing an action by Tacoma Housing Now to bring the plight of rising homeless with trump's covid19 failures to a resolution as if this is by antifa.

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You cannot bring yourself to criticise lame duck trump except with broad statements like nearly all politicians are immoral as response to:

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"Immorality has nothing to do with partisan politics - except that imagining immorality is only by the other side is the height of immorality.

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How moral do you think trump is?

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Do you want to see the Dems use the tactics trump has used?

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Do you want to see leftist extremists seek to commit insurrection at a Dem President's call just because a GOP Governor does not do what that President wanted?"

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You could bring yourself to answer these except by attacking others for not being as good as you.

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PS I have criticised the Dems here to the annoyance of some here or who used to be here - that it is far less than I have criticised trump is because he has been an all time low in regards to honesty, integrity and morality.

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Reply #19 posted 12/31/20 3:30pm

SexyMuthaF

Your unable to give trump credit for anything thank you for proving my point
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Reply #20 posted 12/31/20 4:09pm

IanRG

SexyMuthaF said:

Your unable to give trump credit for anything thank you for proving my point

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Actually, the thread is about lame duck trump's toxic and immoral legacy. I would be going off-topic to seek to make this about praising trump. I would need to be as bad as you are being.

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You, in your inability to admit and address the evil and immoral acts committed by the outgoing president, are seeking to take the thread off topic to praise trump instead.

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In regard to the topic, you have no point.

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You are proving my on topic point - you cannot answer whether you would happy for the Dems to use the tactics trump used. You cannot answer if you would happy for leftist extremists to seek to commit insurrection against a GOP governor at the President's call.

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Reply #21 posted 12/31/20 4:34pm

Graycap23

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Toxic with 1/3rd the country just like him.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #22 posted 01/01/21 4:00am

JoeyC

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IanRG said:

SexyMuthaF said:

Trump haters have no idea what immoral is they support immoral antifa who takes over motels refuses to leave and causes owner to go out of business

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Immorality has nothing to do with partisan politics - except that imagining immorality is only by the other side is the height of immorality.

.

How moral do you think trump is?

.

Do you want to see the Dems use the tactics trump has used?

.

Do you want to see leftist extremists seek to commit insurrection at a Dem President's call just because a GOP Governor does not do what that President wanted?


I
n regard to the trumpism shit show, that's the best thing I've read in a while. A simple but extremely powerful statement. What you said should get any Republican with half a brain and half a care about the USA, to immediately change their thoughts on whether trump has helped or hurt the United States of America. They'd unequivocally lose their shit if a Democrat or progressive had did the things that trump has done. They would have already hurt somebody or done some other heinous shit, and that's why i really don't like a lot of trump loving Republicans. Their hypocrisy is sickening! And they have the nerve to talk about people playing politics.


Thank whomever, that the fool is almost gone. Hopefully by this time next year he'll be on trial or in jail.

Rest in Peace Bettie Boo. See u soon.
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Reply #23 posted 01/01/21 6:14am

SexyMuthaF

Following both the 2004 and 2016 elections the Dems in Congress objected during the certification of electoral votes in order to raise concerns about election integrity. They were praised by dem leadership and the media when they did. So yall saying gop is doing something immoral are full of it BWAHAHAHA happy new year
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Reply #24 posted 01/01/21 6:32am

v10letblues

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SexyMuthaF said:

Following both the 2004 and 2016 elections the Dems in Congress objected during the certification of electoral votes in order to raise concerns about election integrity. They were praised by dem leadership and the media when they did. So yall saying gop is doing something immoral are full of it BWAHAHAHA happy new year

Anything to help make you feel better about supporting Trump.

If this is therapy and it helps you, then great. But if it only keeps you in denial, then that should be worrisome. My guess is you are just trolling to get your socks off.

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Reply #25 posted 01/01/21 7:03am

SexyMuthaF

The nonsense and constant fake criticism says libs are obsessed with posting ‘all things negative’ about trump and conservatives. Seems it’s something libs do to calm their insecurities of ‘all things positive’ about trump and conservatives. Libs can’t handle that. 😃
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Reply #26 posted 01/01/21 7:34am

v10letblues

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SexyMuthaF said:

The nonsense and constant fake criticism says libs are obsessed with posting ‘all things negative’ about trump and conservatives. Seems it’s something libs do to calm their insecurities of ‘all things positive’ about trump and conservatives. Libs can’t handle that. 😃

Start a thread about how wonderful Trump is, his achievements and all the publications touting his amazing legacy and great he is.

Hey, go for it. Start thread about something you feel strongly about. No one is stopping you.

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Reply #27 posted 01/01/21 7:35am

SexyMuthaF

I dont know how and dont have the time or desire.
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Reply #28 posted 01/01/21 7:46am

v10letblues

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SexyMuthaF said:

I dont know how and dont have the time or desire.

lol

But you DO have the time to post on every single Trump thread at all hours of the day or night and respond immediately to every post.

okie dokie.

I understand

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Reply #29 posted 01/01/21 8:06am

SexyMuthaF

There are many trump threads I havent touched so you FAIL
[Edited 1/1/21 8:06am]
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