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Reply #30 posted 11/13/20 11:15am

jaawwnn

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I suppose I agree (except the bit about Prince being a good businessman but we'll save that for another day), I do not worship entrepreneurs and I do not consider the ability to make money a virtue. My value system is explicitly anti wealth as a measure of success and the creaking global environment appears to agree with me on that one.


Edit: I don't live in America though so we're bound to be a bit different. I know it's great to be rich in America but I wouldn't want to be poor there.

[Edited 11/13/20 11:26am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #31 posted 11/13/20 12:08pm

Margot

jaawwnn said:

I suppose I agree (except the bit about Prince being a good businessman but we'll save that for another day), I do not worship entrepreneurs and I do not consider the ability to make money a virtue. My value system is explicitly anti wealth as a measure of success and the creaking global environment appears to agree with me on that one.


Edit: I don't live in America though so we're bound to be a bit different. I know it's great to be rich in America but I wouldn't want to be poor there.

[Edited 11/13/20 11:26am]

I did not say anything about worshipping wealth or entrepreneurship. It is just a way, particularly in the US, to create a more independent life.

  • Restoring a few homes is certainly not contributing to the creaking global environment.
  • There are many opportunities for the 'poor' here
  • 2 year community colleges are abundant and essentially free. One can learn a trade or advance to a 4-yr degree. Low income grants (Pell) are available for 4 year colleges.
  • Many programs exist for first-time home-buying, low-cost materials are available for home improvement, assistance with down payments.
  • Many US cities have inexpensive homes.
  • There are great loans for veterans.
  • Prince was very poor.
  • I started out rather poor, one of 4 children, divorced mom. Dad was an MD but did not like to pay child support very often.

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Reply #32 posted 11/13/20 12:21pm

jaawwnn

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I'm not attacking you or how you have lived your life, i'm sure you're great!

The issue is global and to do with how the planet is run by the countries with the most wealth (i.e. America, but we're not innocent here in Europe by a long shot). I'm not here to guilt trip people though, god knows life is hard for us all!


[Edited 11/13/20 12:24pm]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #33 posted 11/13/20 2:00pm

Margot

jaawwnn said:

I'm not attacking you or how you have lived your life, i'm sure you're great!

The issue is global and to do with how the planet is run by the countries with the most wealth (i.e. America, but we're not innocent here in Europe by a long shot). I'm not here to guilt trip people though, god knows life is hard for us all!


[Edited 11/13/20 12:24pm]

I agree. Let's be friends. After all we are both Irish. I don't take this personally; it's kind of fun to

debate.

I am energized by the US model but not everyone is.

I understand, though, how frustrating the US can be for the rest of the world, particularly re: the environment...the new admin should be more calming. I am in complete agreement with the Biden plan for the environment.

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Reply #34 posted 11/13/20 2:09pm

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:


For that kind of rent, they may as well buy a house, but then again not everyone has the resources to purchase a home as well.


Home ownership is not for everyone. Especially if you are not particularly handy, and all those repairs that can come up are completely your responsibility. Along with all the maintenance issues. I’ve been there, and it’s not always easy

I agree. The expenses can be costly. You always have to have emergency funds for repairs and emergencies.
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Reply #35 posted 11/13/20 2:12pm

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:


The sad thing is that you are seeing less rent control, in large cities, with so much homelessness. The rents are skyrocketing even during a Pandemic, which makes no sense. Many are even struggling to pay their mortgages, let alone those in rental units with no rent control.

There’s still so much construction of apartment buildings going up
within NYC and NJ for example, and the building owners are charging extremely high rents, yet so mainly layoffs/down sizing happening with many employers right now. Studios even in boroughs surrounding Manhattan are ranging from $1800 plus while one bedrooms are over $2000 now. It’s sad, because there really is not much price regulation going on with rents in NYC. The homelessness rate is skyrocketing and getting worse. Many claiming unemployment, and lots of NYers are leaving NYC because of the extremely, high rents. Forget about the price of owning a home here.
[Edited 11/13/20 8:54am]


That’s just disgraceful. The average person gets screwed over and over

Yes, I just keep shaking my head at the astronomical rents. They just keep going up.
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Reply #36 posted 11/13/20 2:15pm

2elijah

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onlyforaminute said:

2elijah said:


For that kind of rent, they may as well buy a house, but then again not everyone has the resources to purchase a home as well.

You would think but the prices of houses have skyrocketed past the $500k mark for a basic house in an average lower midclass neighborhood.

I agree. I actually meant for those who could actually afford to purchase a home, with steady income. But for most now, renting, although high, is moreso their only way to go.
[Edited 11/13/20 14:16pm]
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Reply #37 posted 11/13/20 2:42pm

Margot

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:
Home ownership is not for everyone. Especially if you are not particularly handy, and all those repairs that can come up are completely your responsibility. Along with all the maintenance issues. I’ve been there, and it’s not always easy
I agree. The expenses can be costly. You always have to have emergency funds for repairs and emergencies.

But...You have control. The mortgage remains stable, you do not rely on another's whimsy.

There are so many benefits to home ownership...one can apply for a line of credit, which is tax deductible to use for repairs. The mortagage interest in tax deductible. Many handymen are affordable. In places like NYC and CA, appreciation alone is worth it.

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to offer another point of view.

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Reply #38 posted 11/13/20 2:58pm

jjhunsecker

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Margot said:



2elijah said:


jjhunsecker said:
Home ownership is not for everyone. Especially if you are not particularly handy, and all those repairs that can come up are completely your responsibility. Along with all the maintenance issues. I’ve been there, and it’s not always easy

I agree. The expenses can be costly. You always have to have emergency funds for repairs and emergencies.



But...You have control. The mortgage remains stable, you do not rely on another's whimsy.


There are so many benefits to home ownership...one can apply for a line of credit, which is tax deductible to use for repairs. The mortagage interest in tax deductible. Many handymen are affordable. In places like NYC and CA, appreciation alone is worth it.


I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to offer another point of view.



I’ve been both... and there are advantages and disadvantages to both
At this stage of my life, I’m pretty happy to walk out of my apartment in January and knowing that shoveling snow is not my responsibility...

And I believe that the Trump “tax cuts “ eliminated (at least in NY State) the ability to take the state property tax as a deduction on your Federal taxes. But I might be wrong
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Reply #39 posted 11/13/20 2:59pm

jaawwnn

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Margot said:

jaawwnn said:

I'm not attacking you or how you have lived your life, i'm sure you're great!

The issue is global and to do with how the planet is run by the countries with the most wealth (i.e. America, but we're not innocent here in Europe by a long shot). I'm not here to guilt trip people though, god knows life is hard for us all!


[Edited 11/13/20 12:24pm]

I agree. Let's be friends. After all we are both Irish. I don't take this personally; it's kind of fun to

debate.

I am energized by the US model but not everyone is.

I understand, though, how frustrating the US can be for the rest of the world, particularly re: the environment...the new admin should be more calming. I am in complete agreement with the Biden plan for the environment.

All i'm asking for is an agreed upon basic level for everyone.

I don't mind some (many!) people being considerably richer than me as long as I have somewhere to live that I like (within reason of course), space to pursue my interests, food in my mouth and a livable planet in 100 years. I don't really think anyone is against that!

[Edited 11/13/20 15:00pm]

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Reply #40 posted 11/13/20 4:11pm

onlyforaminute

jaawwnn said:



Margot said:




jaawwnn said:


I'm not attacking you or how you have lived your life, i'm sure you're great!

The issue is global and to do with how the planet is run by the countries with the most wealth (i.e. America, but we're not innocent here in Europe by a long shot). I'm not here to guilt trip people though, god knows life is hard for us all!



[Edited 11/13/20 12:24pm]





I agree. Let's be friends. After all we are both Irish. I don't take this personally; it's kind of fun to


debate.


I am energized by the US model but not everyone is.


I understand, though, how frustrating the US can be for the rest of the world, particularly re: the environment...the new admin should be more calming. I am in complete agreement with the Biden plan for the environment.




All i'm asking for is an agreed upon basic level for everyone.

I don't mind some (many!) people being considerably richer than me as long as I have somewhere to live that I like (within reason of course), space to pursue my interests, food in my mouth and a livable planet in 100 years. I don't really think anyone is against that!




[Edited 11/13/20 15:00pm]


Not at all.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #41 posted 11/13/20 5:59pm

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

Margot said:



2elijah said:


jjhunsecker said:
Home ownership is not for everyone. Especially if you are not particularly handy, and all those repairs that can come up are completely your responsibility. Along with all the maintenance issues. I’ve been there, and it’s not always easy

I agree. The expenses can be costly. You always have to have emergency funds for repairs and emergencies.



But...You have control. The mortgage remains stable, you do not rely on another's whimsy.


There are so many benefits to home ownership...one can apply for a line of credit, which is tax deductible to use for repairs. The mortagage interest in tax deductible. Many handymen are affordable. In places like NYC and CA, appreciation alone is worth it.


I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to offer another point of view.



I’ve been both... and there are advantages and disadvantages to both
At this stage of my life, I’m pretty happy to walk out of my apartment in January and knowing that shoveling snow is not my responsibility...

And I believe that the Trump “tax cuts “ eliminated (at least in NY State) the ability to take the state property tax as a deduction on your Federal taxes. But I might be wrong

One of the reasons one of my oldest brother and his wife, moved into a senior condo community, and sold their last home. He’s had 3 houses in his lifetime because they relocated twice. My brother said now he doesn’t have to worry about mowing the lawn or shoveling snow anymore.
Always smile in the face of adversity. smile
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Reply #42 posted 11/14/20 5:27pm

Margot

onlyforaminute said:

jaawwnn said:

All i'm asking for is an agreed upon basic level for everyone.

I don't mind some (many!) people being considerably richer than me as long as I have somewhere to live that I like (within reason of course), space to pursue my interests, food in my mouth and a livable planet in 100 years. I don't really think anyone is against that!

[Edited 11/13/20 15:00pm]

Not at all.

nod

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Reply #43 posted 11/14/20 5:34pm

Margot

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:
I’ve been both... and there are advantages and disadvantages to both At this stage of my life, I’m pretty happy to walk out of my apartment in January and knowing that shoveling snow is not my responsibility... And I believe that the Trump “tax cuts “ eliminated (at least in NY State) the ability to take the state property tax as a deduction on your Federal taxes. But I might be wrong

A homeowner can deduct mortgage interest and insurance in CA. The nice thing about mortgage interest deduction is that many have high mortgages which is mostly interest. The interest can be written off thereby bringing taxable income way down. It helps as taxes are high in CA (like NY!)

Your points are well-taken. Sometimes the stress home-ownership can rival child-rearing.

[Edited 11/14/20 18:03pm]

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Reply #44 posted 11/18/20 6:29pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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jaawwnn said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

jaawwnn said: Why not?

Even under capitalism it barely makes sense. There's no labour involved, just exploitation.

someone put in the money and either preformed or hired someone to preform labor. There are expenses and someone has to maintains (labor) the property. So it is not explotation it is a needed service. What is the alternative? being homeless? Buy? What?


No Matter How ANYONE tries to justify it our rights, freedoms, and Liberties are being restricted in the name of COVID-19.
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Reply #45 posted 11/18/20 6:35pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Margot said:

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:

A homeowner can deduct mortgage interest and insurance in CA. The nice thing about mortgage interest deduction is that many have high mortgages which is mostly interest. The interest can be written off thereby bringing taxable income way down. It helps as taxes are high in CA (like NY!)

Your points are well-taken. Sometimes the stress home-ownership can rival child-rearing.

[Edited 11/14/20 18:03pm]

but the interest paid is taxable income to the lender. and I pretty sure their is a cap of how much they can deduct. (and then as a dedication they only save a % the interest paid)


and that is what it is meant to do. It is meant to help encourage home ownership.

And you do not save money... it is like giving to charity. they do not save money... in fact is both cases they PAY more money that they would if they did not donate or did not have the loan.

No Matter How ANYONE tries to justify it our rights, freedoms, and Liberties are being restricted in the name of COVID-19.
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Reply #46 posted 11/20/20 6:11am

TonyVanDam

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2freaky4church1 said:

We have a fucking problem America. I told you guys the liberals were racist too.

Do these people even know what the term means? Are they sure they care about racial justice?

Read a book damn.

.

California, as a "blue state", is definitely misleading.

.

1. Oakland & San Francisco are left-wing.

.

2.. Los Angeles & San Diego are left-center.

.

3. Sacramento is right-wing.

.

4. The rest of California are pagans! [That's another thread for another day!] lol

.

But real talk, I do not understand why good & bad white European-American people would be against race-based Affirmative Action, given that President Clinton's "mend it, don't end it" idea made it possible for white women to benefit from it more often than the upper middle-class black folks of .....the boule. lurking

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Reply #47 posted 11/21/20 10:01am

onlyforaminute

TonyVanDam said:



2freaky4church1 said:


We have a fucking problem America. I told you guys the liberals were racist too.



Do these people even know what the term means? Are they sure they care about racial justice?



Read a book damn.



.


California, as a "blue state", is definitely misleading.


.


1. Oakland & San Francisco are left-wing.


.


2.. Los Angeles & San Diego are left-center.


.


3. Sacramento is right-wing.


.


4. The rest of California are pagans! [That's another thread for another day!] lol


.


But real talk, I do not understand why good & bad white European-American people would be against race-based Affirmative Action, given that President Clinton's "mend it, don't end it" idea made it possible for white women to benefit from it more often than the upper middle-class black folks of .....the boule. lurking


Now that would be a fun thread.


Honestly. If you know about the political leanings of CA then you should know the demographics too. Do you really think that AA in CA is going to do that much for those of the African dispora? Maybe in Silicon Valley it'll have an impact but I doubt it'll make a difference all over the state. I think it's just a blanket solution.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #48 posted 11/22/20 11:57am

Margot

Some of the backers of the Anti-affirmative action coalition in CA were Asian. Afirmative Action, in their minds, reduces access to elite high schools and universities.

[Edited 11/22/20 12:00pm]

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Reply #49 posted 11/22/20 12:26pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Margot said:

Some of the backers of the Anti-affirmative action coalition in CA were Asian. Afirmative Action, in their minds, reduces access to elite high schools and universities.

[Edited 11/22/20 12:00pm]

it is not easy to make it fair. I know a state that any student in the top 10% of their high school graduating class gets automatic admission to a state college or university. That is a bad law. It does serve to have much better students get denied and opens the door to students that are not otherwise qualified to take a slot.

again the Affirmative Action should be a system of recruiting qualified people from diverse backgrounds. But they should be qualified.

Now I do not buy more or less qualified. (and note above I said some would be accepted even if they would not have been otherwise).

And: I had a low GPA in high school and a low ACT score: Too low for general applicants but I belonged to a sub set and was automatically accepted and I maintained a high GPA.

No Matter How ANYONE tries to justify it our rights, freedoms, and Liberties are being restricted in the name of COVID-19.
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Reply #50 posted 11/22/20 6:08pm

Margot

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Margot said:

Some of the backers of the Anti-affirmative action coalition in CA were Asian. Afirmative Action, in their minds, reduces access to elite high schools and universities.

[Edited 11/22/20 12:00pm]

it is not easy to make it fair. I know a state that any student in the top 10% of their high school graduating class gets automatic admission to a state college or university. That is a bad law. It does serve to have much better students get denied and opens the door to students that are not otherwise qualified to take a slot.

again the Affirmative Action should be a system of recruiting qualified people from diverse backgrounds. But they should be qualified.

Now I do not buy more or less qualified. (and note above I said some would be accepted even if they would not have been otherwise).

And: I had a low GPA in high school and a low ACT score: Too low for general applicants but I belonged to a sub set and was automatically accepted and I maintained a high GPA.

Yes, using the top 10% admittance rate does not work as there are some high schools which are much more rigorous. Others can be less rigorous or grade-inflate.

I feel, though, the rug has been pulled out for some of these Asian students who are clearly qualified

and have followed the rules. I will go further and say that as a group, they work harder, have greater drive and discipline which is why they are where they are. Other groups should study their work ethic.

[Edited 11/22/20 18:09pm]

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Reply #51 posted 11/23/20 7:38am

jjhunsecker

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Margot said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:




Margot said:





Some of the backers of the Anti-affirmative action coalition in CA were Asian. Afirmative Action, in their minds, reduces access to elite high schools and universities.



[Edited 11/22/20 12:00pm]





it is not easy to make it fair. I know a state that any student in the top 10% of their high school graduating class gets automatic admission to a state college or university. That is a bad law. It does serve to have much better students get denied and opens the door to students that are not otherwise qualified to take a slot.

again the Affirmative Action should be a system of recruiting qualified people from diverse backgrounds. But they should be qualified.

Now I do not buy more or less qualified. (and note above I said some would be accepted even if they would not have been otherwise).

And: I had a low GPA in high school and a low ACT score: Too low for general applicants but I belonged to a sub set and was automatically accepted and I maintained a high GPA.





Yes, using the top 10% admittance rate does not work as there are some high schools which are much more rigorous. Others can be less rigorous or grade-inflate.



I feel, though, the rug has been pulled out for some of these Asian students who are clearly qualified


and have followed the rules. I will go further and say that as a group, they work harder, have greater drive and discipline which is why they are where they are. Other groups should study their work ethic.







[Edited 11/22/20 18:09pm]



Asians are also perceived as “Honorary Whites “ in this society. They don’t have to deal with the negative stereotypes and outright discrimination that even the most educated and wealthiest Black people have to contend with.

And I wish that they also took on “Legacy Admissions”, as that has probably kept as many Asians out of top schools as Affirmative Action. An idiot like Jared Kushner probably took the college seat of a smarter Asian kid... but his daddy had enough money to get him in
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Reply #52 posted 11/23/20 8:22am

Margot

I don't think it's fair to call them 'honorary' Whites. Many are poor immigrants who have sacrificed everything.

With that said, the college admissions game is a racket. It's basically about who will eventually contribute the most to their endowment, hence the admission of legacies, athletes (especially captains who are perceived to be leaders and natural networkers).

Perhaps they do not perceive most Asians to be good sources of eventual endowment income.

I learned all of this when my daughter decided to apply to some fancy east coast schools.

Her high school counselors were overloaded,(3,500), and she was competing with kids who had counselors with connections/savvy, so I became a defacto college counselor. It was eye-opening, to say the least.

One of the reasons she targeted those schools was their ability to fund her education. They consider a family making $250,000 or less to be eligible for aid. We were middle class.

She had fabulous grades, but was not a legacy, athlete nor an urm, so it was an uphill climb.

I'm just stating the facts as to how these places operate. It's all about them, they want to win in the

ranking game.

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Reply #53 posted 11/23/20 9:21am

jjhunsecker

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Margot said:

I don't think it's fair to call them 'honorary' Whites. Many are poor immigrants who have sacrificed everything.


With that said, the college admissions game is a racket. It's basically about who will eventually contribute the most to their endowment, hence the admission of legacies, athletes (especially captains who are perceived to be leaders and natural networkers).


Perhaps they do not perceive most Asians to be good sources of eventual endowment income.


I learned all of this when my daughter decided to apply to some fancy east coast schools.


Her high school counselors were overloaded,(3,500), and she was competing with kids who had counselors with connections/savvy, so I became a defacto college counselor. It was eye-opening, to say the least.


One of the reasons she targeted those schools was their ability to fund her education. They consider a family making $250,000 or less to be eligible for aid. We were middle class.


She had fabulous grades, but was not a legacy, athlete nor an urm, so it was an uphill climb.


I'm just stating the facts as to how these places operate. It's all about them, they want to win in the


ranking game.



I think it’s very fair to call them “Honorary Whites” since even the poorest and least educated Asian does not face the scrutiny and suspicion that I , a middle class and middle aged Black man (who attended what is usually ranked in the top 40 colleges in America) . And I know numerous SUCCESSFUL Black people, (and non-Caucasian appearing Latinos) who have faced this very same treatment.

And Asians do not have negative behavior in their community held against them, the way people generalize about Blacks. I personally know 2 Asian families where a parent abandoned their spouse and children. I also know of Asians who are gambling addicts, and have drained their family finances. But they get the “Model Minority “ tag while Blacks are all labeled as ignorant lazy criminals
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Reply #54 posted 11/23/20 9:38am

Margot

IMO, this country is full of opportunities. My hat's off to those who look around and figure it out.

When my daughter was mid-high school, at the time, I was a single mother, a nurse, often tired etc. My daughter was ambitious and my own mother taught me how to 'think outside the box', so with that mind-set, we went ahead and I encouraged her to compete for a place at one of the 'Ivies'. We spent hours researching different schools, she wrote and re-wrote her college essay, took challenging courses, met with visiting reps from the universities etc. She applied to 14 top tier univ's and was accepted @ 13. She chose Columbia, NYC.

Many of these Asian immigrants are 'hungry' for opportunity. They can see what is offered here clearly.

Sometimes when we live here, we are less inclined to see what is in front of us.

The universities, esp. the top-tiers, are searching for under-represented minorities. They do quite a bit of outreach for promising candidates and look in many types of neighborhoods to find them.

Columbia did just that, they combed through neighborhoods. My daughter has told me the background stories of many of these students. Columbia is not alone.

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Reply #55 posted 11/23/20 9:42am

jjhunsecker

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Margot said:

I don't think it's fair to call them 'honorary' Whites. Many are poor immigrants who have sacrificed everything.


With that said, the college admissions game is a racket. It's basically about who will eventually contribute the most to their endowment, hence the admission of legacies, athletes (especially captains who are perceived to be leaders and natural networkers).


Perhaps they do not perceive most Asians to be good sources of eventual endowment income.


I learned all of this when my daughter decided to apply to some fancy east coast schools.


Her high school counselors were overloaded,(3,500), and she was competing with kids who had counselors with connections/savvy, so I became a defacto college counselor. It was eye-opening, to say the least.


One of the reasons she targeted those schools was their ability to fund her education. They consider a family making $250,000 or less to be eligible for aid. We were middle class.


She had fabulous grades, but was not a legacy, athlete nor an urm, so it was an uphill climb.


I'm just stating the facts as to how these places operate. It's all about them, they want to win in the


ranking game.



Getting back to my point, I think that there has been a right wing campaign to enlist Asians in the goal to eliminate Affirmative Action in schools. I feel that if the only requirement for entry into schools is grades and test results, then Legacy Admissions must be attacked as well. But since AA often benefits minorities, while Legacies benefits probably 98% wealthy White people, I don’t expect parity in how they are perceived
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Reply #56 posted 11/23/20 9:52am

jjhunsecker

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Margot said:

IMO, this country is full of opportunities. My hat's off to those who look around and figure it out.


When my daughter was mid-high school, at the time, I was a single mother, a nurse, often tired etc. My daughter was ambitious and my own mother taught me how to 'think outside the box', so with that mind-set, we went ahead and I encouraged her to compete for a place at one of the 'Ivies'. We spent hours researching different schools, she wrote and re-wrote her college essay, took challenging courses, met with visiting reps from the universities etc. She applied to 14 top tier univ's and was accepted @ 13. She chose Columbia, NYC.


Many of these Asian immigrants are 'hungry' for opportunity. They can see what is offered here clearly.


Sometimes when we live here, we are less inclined to see what is in front of us.


The universities, esp. the top-tiers, are searching for under-represented minorities. They do quite a bit of outreach for promising candidates and look in many types of neighborhoods to find them.


Columbia did just that, they combed through neighborhoods. My daughter has told me the background stories of many of these students. Columbia is not alone.



And I don’t dispute any of this. Myself, and MANY of the Black people I know, have taken advantage of these opportunities and have done well for themselves.

My point ( and one I noticed that you didn’t address earlier in the thread when I discussed things that happened to my Ivy League physician friend) is that even doing all the “correct “ things society tells us to do, the EXACT SAME things you praise the Asians for doing, STILL does not protect Black People from being mistreated and viewed with suspicion by store staff, and more importantly, the police
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Reply #57 posted 11/23/20 10:18am

Margot

jjhunsecker said:

Margot said:

IMO, this country is full of opportunities. My hat's off to those who look around and figure it out.

When my daughter was mid-high school, at the time, I was a single mother, a nurse, often tired etc. My daughter was ambitious and my own mother taught me how to 'think outside the box', so with that mind-set, we went ahead and I encouraged her to compete for a place at one of the 'Ivies'. We spent hours researching different schools, she wrote and re-wrote her college essay, took challenging courses, met with visiting reps from the universities etc. She applied to 14 top tier univ's and was accepted @ 13. She chose Columbia, NYC.

Many of these Asian immigrants are 'hungry' for opportunity. They can see what is offered here clearly.

Sometimes when we live here, we are less inclined to see what is in front of us.

The universities, esp. the top-tiers, are searching for under-represented minorities. They do quite a bit of outreach for promising candidates and look in many types of neighborhoods to find them.

Columbia did just that, they combed through neighborhoods. My daughter has told me the background stories of many of these students. Columbia is not alone.

And I don’t dispute any of this. Myself, and MANY of the Black people I know, have taken advantage of these opportunities and have done well for themselves. My point ( and one I noticed that you didn’t address earlier in the thread when I discussed things that happened to my Ivy League physician friend) is that even doing all the “correct “ things society tells us to do, the EXACT SAME things you praise the Asians for doing, STILL does not protect Black People from being mistreated and viewed with suspicion by store staff, and more importantly, the police

I will give you my honest opinion and you will possibly/likely not like it.

As I have mentioned before, I lived in Oakland (hood) for many years. It's where I was able to afford my first home. I say this because I feel I saw quite a bit and have what I think is a neutral observation. I have to say that I admire much of what the black community offfers, BUT,

there is a portion of the Black community that acts out and scares people. They are responsible for a fair amount of crime, etc. I did witness this and was a victim as well. It was scary alot of the time.

I think those who do not have too much experience with the black community may extrapolate.

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Reply #58 posted 11/23/20 3:10pm

jjhunsecker

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Margot said:



jjhunsecker said:


Margot said:

IMO, this country is full of opportunities. My hat's off to those who look around and figure it out.


When my daughter was mid-high school, at the time, I was a single mother, a nurse, often tired etc. My daughter was ambitious and my own mother taught me how to 'think outside the box', so with that mind-set, we went ahead and I encouraged her to compete for a place at one of the 'Ivies'. We spent hours researching different schools, she wrote and re-wrote her college essay, took challenging courses, met with visiting reps from the universities etc. She applied to 14 top tier univ's and was accepted @ 13. She chose Columbia, NYC.


Many of these Asian immigrants are 'hungry' for opportunity. They can see what is offered here clearly.


Sometimes when we live here, we are less inclined to see what is in front of us.


The universities, esp. the top-tiers, are searching for under-represented minorities. They do quite a bit of outreach for promising candidates and look in many types of neighborhoods to find them.


Columbia did just that, they combed through neighborhoods. My daughter has told me the background stories of many of these students. Columbia is not alone.



And I don’t dispute any of this. Myself, and MANY of the Black people I know, have taken advantage of these opportunities and have done well for themselves. My point ( and one I noticed that you didn’t address earlier in the thread when I discussed things that happened to my Ivy League physician friend) is that even doing all the “correct “ things society tells us to do, the EXACT SAME things you praise the Asians for doing, STILL does not protect Black People from being mistreated and viewed with suspicion by store staff, and more importantly, the police



I will give you my honest opinion and you will possibly/likely not like it.


As I have mentioned before, I lived in Oakland (hood) for many years. It's where I was able to afford my first home. I say this because I feel I saw quite a bit and have what I think is a neutral observation. I have to say that I admire much of what the black community offfers, BUT,


there is a portion of the Black community that acts out and scares people. They are responsible for a fair amount of crime, etc. I did witness this and was a victim as well. It was scary alot of the time.


I think those who do not have too much experience with the black community may extrapolate.




I never said that there aren’t fucked up and dangerous Black people. Some of them deserve to be in jail, and some of them deserve to be shot. I wouldn’t give a shit if they were.

But why should I be held responsible for what someone else did? I’m assuming that you’re a White woman- feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I’m sure you would be upset if people compared you to Susan Smith, or the Karen who called the cops on the Black man in Central Park. You would probably say “Wait, what did I DO?” Well, that’s what Black people face all the TIME.... That we’re all lumped together. You should give that some thought... I suspect you never really did

When I was younger I was accosted and assaulted several times by racist White Italians. I don’t blame all of them for that or look at every Italian with fear and anger. When I was in college, there was a murder at a party at school... attended ENTIRELY by Asians ( your “model minorities “)...

So take some time, and formulate an answer as to why it’s OK for the cops to constantly stop my best friend, an Ivy League educated physician. Or for store clerks to follow my mother, a church going woman who was a manager at a Fortune 500 firm before she retired- around a store- when she was 80 years old - like she was a common thief... Because what it SEEMS like you are saying is that it is OK to profile Black people- no matter their achievements or demeanor or appearance- because OTHER Black people did something wrong
[Edited 11/23/20 15:13pm]
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Reply #59 posted 11/24/20 11:01am

2elijah

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Margot said:



jjhunsecker said:


Margot said:

IMO, this country is full of opportunities. My hat's off to those who look around and figure it out.


When my daughter was mid-high school, at the time, I was a single mother, a nurse, often tired etc. My daughter was ambitious and my own mother taught me how to 'think outside the box', so with that mind-set, we went ahead and I encouraged her to compete for a place at one of the 'Ivies'. We spent hours researching different schools, she wrote and re-wrote her college essay, took challenging courses, met with visiting reps from the universities etc. She applied to 14 top tier univ's and was accepted @ 13. She chose Columbia, NYC.


Many of these Asian immigrants are 'hungry' for opportunity. They can see what is offered here clearly.


Sometimes when we live here, we are less inclined to see what is in front of us.


The universities, esp. the top-tiers, are searching for under-represented minorities. They do quite a bit of outreach for promising candidates and look in many types of neighborhoods to find them.


Columbia did just that, they combed through neighborhoods. My daughter has told me the background stories of many of these students. Columbia is not alone.



And I don’t dispute any of this. Myself, and MANY of the Black people I know, have taken advantage of these opportunities and have done well for themselves. My point ( and one I noticed that you didn’t address earlier in the thread when I discussed things that happened to my Ivy League physician friend) is that even doing all the “correct “ things society tells us to do, the EXACT SAME things you praise the Asians for doing, STILL does not protect Black People from being mistreated and viewed with suspicion by store staff, and more importantly, the police



I will give you my honest opinion and you will possibly/likely not like it.


As I have mentioned before, I lived in Oakland (hood) for many years. It's where I was able to afford my first home. I say this because I feel I saw quite a bit and have what I think is a neutral observation. I have to say that I admire much of what the black community offfers, BUT,


there is a portion of the Black community that acts out and scares people. They are responsible for a fair amount of crime, etc. I did witness this and was a victim as well. It was scary alot of the time.


I think those who do not have too much experience with the black community may extrapolate.




There are ‘scary folks’ within ‘every, single racial community’. That is a fact. Saw it with my own eyes when I worked for a state correctional, central office. Saw the files snd faces. Not one, single racial group can be exempt from ‘bad apples within’.

The difference is how many of these non-Black groups, don’t get shitted on by society, as much as the ‘entire Black community’ who takes the heat for the action of just ‘one’ of their own. There is a major ‘difference’ in treatment moreso than with others. That’s just a fact.
Always smile in the face of adversity. smile
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America gave Trump his eviction notice on 11/3/20. Best decision ever made!!!! clapping
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