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Reply #90 posted 12/01/20 9:30am

Margot

jjhunsecker said:

Margot said:

"Her response"...are you referring to me?

-First of all, I am someone who has lived in the heart of the 'urban' community for 25+ years.

-It was impossible to not get a sense of what was going on.

-During this time, I worked 20 mins away in a predominately white community.

-I heard all of the comments/conversations from both sides; believe me.

-I told you what I thought and,still think, VERY reluctantly. You had to explicitly ask me.

-It took guts for me to talk with you from an honest place as I knew I would be jumped.

-The elephant in the room will not be accepted by Blacks and Whites will not be honest because of a tremendous fear of being called racist. So, what happens is that there is distancing. The real conversation is too intense and there is no sincere interest in seeing both sides.

Take it as you will.

Your comments appear to, at the very least, seem to justify or excuse the racial profiling of Black people. Maybe that’s not what you intended, but I can guarantee you that most Black readers here (and probably most non Black ones as well) interpreted your remarks in this manner. One could point out that almost every mass shooter has been White, but if anyone said that every young White man should be profiled as a potential killer, most folks would consider that “crazy “. I’m keeping it as honest as possible. I don’t see anything particularly brave about stereotyping all Black people based on the actions of a few... It’s something that I have been hearing and dealing with my whole life, and I am just fucking tired of it [Edited 11/28/20 14:55pm]

What I said and I will repeat it is response to "why folks such as Ivy League-educated" blacks are

treated with suspicion.

Many Whites do not have close association with Blacks, therefore are likely prone to extrapolate.

I am taking a risk talking to you like this because you do not like what I saying.

When one group blames almost all of their ills on another group, it is unfair and overwhelming to the receiving group.It takes away ownership of what is internally-derived. Of course there is culpability, but there are other issues that are internal. One concern is young Black men. There is a crisis going on that is largely ignored by both sides. This issue, IMO, can be supported by those outside but the healing message needs to come from within. No amount of money from outside will change this. I would love to see more emphasis placed on completing high school and perhaps broadening what it means to be successful. Many of these guys do not have not have options and there is a pull towards unlawful activitiy which leads to imprisonment. One look at the prisons bears this out.

I am just saying that the expectations and blame are out of proportion and causes many White people to wring their hands and smile in agreement, all the while backing up and distancing.

I am doing my best to give you what I have witnessed.

Once again, many Whites do not have day to day experience with Black folks and likely tend to

see the news and extrapolate. I do not think there is animosity, just nervousness.

[Edited 12/1/20 9:36am]

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Reply #91 posted 12/01/20 1:04pm

Margot

I worked in Oakland hospitals with many Black physicians and nurses who were lovely, classy & very intelligent.

The hospitals, mirrored, IMO, the basic harmony I felt in Oakland, in general, among the races. If one were to have lunch in the cafeteria @ that hospital, one would have seen @ least 15-20 different nationalities all sitting together. I don't remember people segregating. It broadened my outlook quite a bit.

I moved to Oakland as I was craving diversity not only in the population, but in cuisine, music, culture etc.

I have an inherent admiration of the Black culture, particularly the music and cuisine.

I also had a concurrent job in a White community 15 miles away. They were nice people, but less

inclined to leave their comfort zone, not very adventurous in general.

They used to 'worry' about me living in Oakland and though I would tell them that as it was urban, one needed to be alert, you had to lock your car/house, etc., I felt safe.

When we had our baby, we invited all of them to the shower in Oakland; they loved the area and venue.

So, when I say extrapolation, I mean that many Whites do not venture into Black communities and are rather uninformed. They get their info from the TV news/newpapers etc. and see the crime statistics etc. and come to conclusions.

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Reply #92 posted 12/01/20 2:31pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

Margot said:



jjhunsecker said:


Margot said:



"Her response"...are you referring to me?


-First of all, I am someone who has lived in the heart of the 'urban' community for 25+ years.


-It was impossible to not get a sense of what was going on.


-During this time, I worked 20 mins away in a predominately white community.


-I heard all of the comments/conversations from both sides; believe me.


-I told you what I thought and,still think, VERY reluctantly. You had to explicitly ask me.


-It took guts for me to talk with you from an honest place as I knew I would be jumped.


-The elephant in the room will not be accepted by Blacks and Whites will not be honest because of a tremendous fear of being called racist. So, what happens is that there is distancing. The real conversation is too intense and there is no sincere interest in seeing both sides.


Take it as you will.





Your comments appear to, at the very least, seem to justify or excuse the racial profiling of Black people. Maybe that’s not what you intended, but I can guarantee you that most Black readers here (and probably most non Black ones as well) interpreted your remarks in this manner. One could point out that almost every mass shooter has been White, but if anyone said that every young White man should be profiled as a potential killer, most folks would consider that “crazy “. I’m keeping it as honest as possible. I don’t see anything particularly brave about stereotyping all Black people based on the actions of a few... It’s something that I have been hearing and dealing with my whole life, and I am just fucking tired of it [Edited 11/28/20 14:55pm]




What I said and I will repeat it is response to "why folks such as Ivy League-educated" blacks are


treated with suspicion.


Many Whites do not have close association with Blacks, therefore are likely prone to extrapolate.



I am taking a risk talking to you like this because you do not like what I saying.


When one group blames almost all of their ills on another group, it is unfair and overwhelming to the receiving group.It takes away ownership of what is internally-derived. Of course there is culpability, but there are other issues that are internal. One concern is young Black men. There is a crisis going on that is largely ignored by both sides. This issue, IMO, can be supported by those outside but the healing message needs to come from within. No amount of money from outside will change this. I would love to see more emphasis placed on completing high school and perhaps broadening what it means to be successful. Many of these guys do not have not have options and there is a pull towards unlawful activitiy which leads to imprisonment. One look at the prisons bears this out.


I am just saying that the expectations and blame are out of proportion and causes many White people to wring their hands and smile in agreement, all the while backing up and distancing.



I am doing my best to give you what I have witnessed.


Once again, many Whites do not have day to day experience with Black folks and likely tend to


see the news and extrapolate. I do not think there is animosity, just nervousness.



[Edited 12/1/20 9:36am]



So what you’re saying is that they stereotype all Black people, based on the actions of a minority, and that’s that... I mean, my then 80 year old mother (who could not be mistaken for a teenager from the hood) has been followed around stores like a potential thief. Who’s to blame for humiliating a law abiding citizen like that? At what point does “suspicions “ become insanity? And how should those on the receiving end of this react ? There’s nothing that you are saying that I have not heard, and had to deal with my entire life. And as I said, I’m just pretty fucking fed up with it. I’m tired of working around the suspicions of others when I DID EVERYTHING RIGHT...

I guess that we as Black Americans (and those who are Black immigrants) should just put up with this kind of treatment- which no other groups face, despite all the bad peoples spread across all ethnicities- because.., well, that’s just how it is...

I’m not taking this out on you specifically. As the expression goes: I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired

And then you wonder why Blacks who are perceived as downplaying the effects of racism and discrimination often find themselves ostracized from their communities?
[Edited 12/1/20 14:37pm]
[Edited 12/1/20 14:43pm]
[Edited 12/1/20 15:05pm]
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #93 posted 12/01/20 3:48pm

SexyMuthaF

Well said Margot.
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Reply #94 posted 12/02/20 8:12pm

jjhunsecker

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SexyMuthaF said:

Well said Margot.

Does your "Black" character agree as well ? Or did you retire that persona ?

#SOCIETYDEFINESU
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Reply #95 posted 12/02/20 10:37pm

SexyMuthaF

Not gonna respond to antisocial gibberish.
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Reply #96 posted 12/03/20 5:09am

jjhunsecker

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We see right through you, Stephen
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Reply #97 posted 12/03/20 5:48am

2elijah

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

Margot said:



jjhunsecker said:


Margot said:



"Her response"...are you referring to me?


-First of all, I am someone who has lived in the heart of the 'urban' community for 25+ years.


-It was impossible to not get a sense of what was going on.


-During this time, I worked 20 mins away in a predominately white community.


-I heard all of the comments/conversations from both sides; believe me.


-I told you what I thought and,still think, VERY reluctantly. You had to explicitly ask me.


-It took guts for me to talk with you from an honest place as I knew I would be jumped.


-The elephant in the room will not be accepted by Blacks and Whites will not be honest because of a tremendous fear of being called racist. So, what happens is that there is distancing. The real conversation is too intense and there is no sincere interest in seeing both sides.


Take it as you will.





Your comments appear to, at the very least, seem to justify or excuse the racial profiling of Black people. Maybe that’s not what you intended, but I can guarantee you that most Black readers here (and probably most non Black ones as well) interpreted your remarks in this manner. One could point out that almost every mass shooter has been White, but if anyone said that every young White man should be profiled as a potential killer, most folks would consider that “crazy “. I’m keeping it as honest as possible. I don’t see anything particularly brave about stereotyping all Black people based on the actions of a few... It’s something that I have been hearing and dealing with my whole life, and I am just fucking tired of it [Edited 11/28/20 14:55pm]




What I said and I will repeat it is response to "why folks such as Ivy League-educated" blacks are


treated with suspicion.


Many Whites do not have close association with Blacks, therefore are likely prone to extrapolate.



I am taking a risk talking to you like this because you do not like what I saying.


When one group blames almost all of their ills on another group, it is unfair and overwhelming to the receiving group.It takes away ownership of what is internally-derived. Of course there is culpability, but there are other issues that are internal. One concern is young Black men. There is a crisis going on that is largely ignored by both sides. This issue, IMO, can be supported by those outside but the healing message needs to come from within. No amount of money from outside will change this. I would love to see more emphasis placed on completing high school and perhaps broadening what it means to be successful. Many of these guys do not have not have options and there is a pull towards unlawful activitiy which leads to imprisonment. One look at the prisons bears this out.


I am just saying that the expectations and blame are out of proportion and causes many White people to wring their hands and smile in agreement, all the while backing up and distancing.



I am doing my best to give you what I have witnessed.


Once again, many Whites do not have day to day experience with Black folks and likely tend to


see the news and extrapolate. I do not think there is animosity, just nervousness.



[Edited 12/1/20 9:36am]



So what you’re saying is that they stereotype all Black people, based on the actions of a minority, and that’s that... I mean, my then 80 year old mother (who could not be mistaken for a teenager from the hood) has been followed around stores like a potential thief. Who’s to blame for humiliating a law abiding citizen like that? At what point does “suspicions “ become insanity? And how should those on the receiving end of this react ? There’s nothing that you are saying that I have not heard, and had to deal with my entire life. And as I said, I’m just pretty fucking fed up with it. I’m tired of working around the suspicions of others when I DID EVERYTHING RIGHT...

I guess that we as Black Americans (and those who are Black immigrants) should just put up with this kind of treatment- which no other groups face, despite all the bad peoples spread across all ethnicities- because.., well, that’s just how it is...

I’m not taking this out on you specifically. As the expression goes: I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired

And then you wonder why Blacks who are perceived as downplaying the effects of racism and discrimination often find themselves ostracized from their communities?
[Edited 12/1/20 14:37pm]
[Edited 12/1/20 14:43pm]
[Edited 12/1/20 15:05pm]



That’s the problem, the ‘stereotyping’. No offense to Margot, but her experience living in a community that was composed of Black Americans, does not define the mindset, lifestyle, culture, economic or educational status of ‘all Black Americans’. That’s what she should try to comprehend, because we are not monolithic nor are we all raised the same. There will also be some who will never understand the racial profiling experiences. As a whole, Black Americans don’t go out with a sign saying ‘Hey come on over and racially profile me’, it’s the ignorance of others who use their ingrained biases to racially profile us, and many other persons of color. That’s what some fail to comprehend. Also, as far as affirmative action, its White women who have been the biggest beneficiaries of that program.

https://www.acluok.org/si...usters.pdf

MYTH:Affirmative action only benefits Blacks.
FACT: Affirmative action benefits a broad range of com- munities that continue to face discrimination in this
country, including women, Native Americans, Arab Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, and African Americans.

Contrary to popular belief, Blacks are not the only, or even the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiar- ies of affirmative action are white women.”

[Edited 12/3/20 6:22am]
Always smile in the face of adversity. smile
America gave Trump his eviction notice on 11/3/20, and now he’s the only president in U.S. history to be impeached twice.
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Reply #98 posted 12/03/20 6:18am

jjhunsecker

avatar

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:



So what you’re saying is that they stereotype all Black people, based on the actions of a minority, and that’s that... I mean, my then 80 year old mother (who could not be mistaken for a teenager from the hood) has been followed around stores like a potential thief. Who’s to blame for humiliating a law abiding citizen like that? At what point does “suspicions “ become insanity? And how should those on the receiving end of this react ? There’s nothing that you are saying that I have not heard, and had to deal with my entire life. And as I said, I’m just pretty fucking fed up with it. I’m tired of working around the suspicions of others when I DID EVERYTHING RIGHT...

I guess that we as Black Americans (and those who are Black immigrants) should just put up with this kind of treatment- which no other groups face, despite all the bad peoples spread across all ethnicities- because.., well, that’s just how it is...

I’m not taking this out on you specifically. As the expression goes: I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired

And then you wonder why Blacks who are perceived as downplaying the effects of racism and discrimination often find themselves ostracized from their communities?
[Edited 12/1/20 14:37pm]
[Edited 12/1/20 14:43pm]
[Edited 12/1/20 15:05pm]



That’s the problem, the ‘stereotyping’. No offense to Margot, but her experience living in a community that was composed of Black Americans, does not define the mindset, lifestyle, culture, economic or educational status of ‘all Black Americans’. That’s what she should try to comprehend, because we are not monolithic nor are we all raised the same. There will also be some who will never understand the racial profiling experiences. As a whole, Black Americans don’t go out with a sign saying ‘Hey come on over and racially profile me’, it’s the ignorance of others who use their ingrained biases to racially profile us, and many other persons of color. That’s what some fail to comprehend. Also, as far as affirmative action, its White women who have been the biggest beneficiaries of that program.

https://www.acluok.org/si...usters.pdf

MYTH:Affirmative action only benefits Blacks.
FACT: Affirmative action benefits a broad range of com- munities that continue to face discrimination in this
country, including women, Native Americans, Arab Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, and African Americans.

Contrary to popular belief, Blacks are not the only, or even the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiar- ies of affirmative action are white women.”

[Edited 12/3/20 6:15am]


Excellent post. My sentiments as well
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Reply #99 posted 12/03/20 6:25am

2elijah

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:




That’s the problem, the ‘stereotyping’. No offense to Margot, but her experience living in a community that was composed of Black Americans, does not define the mindset, lifestyle, culture, economic or educational status of ‘all Black Americans’. That’s what she should try to comprehend, because we are not monolithic nor are we all raised the same. There will also be some who will never understand the racial profiling experiences. As a whole, Black Americans don’t go out with a sign saying ‘Hey come on over and racially profile me’, it’s the ignorance of others who use their ingrained biases to racially profile us, and many other persons of color. That’s what some fail to comprehend. Also, as far as affirmative action, its White women who have been the biggest beneficiaries of that program.

https://www.acluok.org/si...usters.pdf

MYTH:Affirmative action only benefits Blacks.
FACT: Affirmative action benefits a broad range of com- munities that continue to face discrimination in this
country, including women, Native Americans, Arab Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, and African Americans.

Contrary to popular belief, Blacks are not the only, or even the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiar- ies of affirmative action are white women.”

[Edited 12/3/20 6:15am]


Excellent post. My sentiments as well

Thanks JJ, it’s just mind-boggling how many ignore our perseverance and survival, as a whole, no matter the ‘hangups’ and ‘biases’ of others that we deal with everyday, while going about our everyday lives.
Always smile in the face of adversity. smile
America gave Trump his eviction notice on 11/3/20, and now he’s the only president in U.S. history to be impeached twice.
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Reply #100 posted 12/03/20 8:38am

jjhunsecker

avatar

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:



Excellent post. My sentiments as well

Thanks JJ, it’s just mind-boggling how many ignore our perseverance and survival, as a whole, no matter the ‘hangups’ and ‘biases’ of others that we deal with everyday, while going about our everyday lives.


And not one of these people would accept being judged or treated differently because of something someone else- who might share some characteristics- has done or said.
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