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Thread started 07/11/20 4:52pm

CherryMoon57

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Anonymous Berkeley Professor's critique of BLM 'Injustice' Narrative


I think this deserves its own thread.

*****Below is an anonymous letter which - it has been confirmed by Wilfred Reilly, was sent to him and Dr. Thomas Sowell. *****


I can confirm that the letter in the thread below was sent to me and Tom Sowell. It's really worth reading, in a time of widespread panic.
MuXU4F9a_normal.jpg
Tracy Beanz
@tracybeanz
· Jun 12
Thread: I was sent this and felt the need to thread it here on Twitter. It will be long. It is purported to be an anonymous, open letter from a professor at UK Berkeley in the History Department. The only comment I will make is to say it is worth every moment of the read.



'Dear profs X, Y, Z

I am one of your colleagues at the University of California, Berkeley. I have met you both personally but do not know you closely, and am contacting you anonymously, with apologies. I am worried that writing this email publicly might lead to me losing my job, and likely all future jobs in my field.

In your recent departmental emails you mentioned our pledge to diversity, but I am increasingly alarmed by the absence of diversity of opinion on the topic of the recent protests and our community response to them.

In the extended links and resources you provided, I could not find a single instance of substantial counter-argument or alternative narrative to explain the under-representation of black individuals in academia or their over-representation in the criminal justice system. The explanation provided in your documentation, to the near exclusion of all others, is univariate: the problems of the black community are caused by whites, or, when whites are not physically present, by the infiltration of white supremacy and white systemic racism into American brains, souls, and institutions.

Many cogent objections to this thesis have been raised by sober voices, including from within the black community itself, such as Thomas Sowell and Wilfred Reilly. These people are not racists or ‘Uncle Toms’. They are intelligent scholars who reject a narrative that strips black people of agency and systematically externalizes the problems of the black community onto outsiders. Their view is entirely absent from the departmental and UCB-wide communiques.

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis that should be vigorously challenged by historians. Instead, it is being treated as an axiomatic and actionable truth without serious consideration of its profound flaws, or its worrying implication of total black impotence. This hypothesis is transforming our institution and our culture, without any space for dissent outside of a tightly policed, narrow discourse.

A counternarrative exists. If you have time, please consider examining some of the documents I attach at the end of this email. Overwhelmingly, the reasoning provided by BLM and allies is either primarily anecdotal (as in the case with the bulk of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ undeniably moving article) or it is transparently motivated. As an example of the latter problem, consider the proportion of black incarcerated Americans. This proportion is often used to characterize the criminal justice system as anti-black. However, if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black.

Would we characterize criminal justice as a systemically misandrist conspiracy against innocent American men? I hope you see that this type of reasoning is flawed, and requires a significant suspension of our rational faculties. Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict. This fact has been demonstrated multiple times across multiple jurisdictions in multiple countries.

And yet, I see my department uncritically reproducing a narrative that diminishes black agency in favor of a white-centric explanation that appeals to the department’s apparent desire to shoulder the ‘white man’s burden’ and to promote a narrative of white guilt.

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews. None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. “Those are racist dogwhistles”. “The model minority myth is white supremacist”. “Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime”, ad nauseam.

These types of statements do not amount to counterarguments: they are simply arbitrary offensive classifications, intended to silence and oppress discourse. Any serious historian will recognize these for the silencing orthodoxy tactics they are, common to suppressive regimes, doctrines, and religions throughout time and space. They are intended to crush real diversity and permanently exile the culture of robust criticism from our department.

Increasingly, we are being called upon to comply and subscribe to BLM’s problematic view of history, and the department is being presented as unified on the matter. In particular, ethnic minorities are being aggressively marshaled into a single position. Any apparent unity is surely a function of the fact that dissent could almost certainly lead to expulsion or cancellation for those of us in a precarious position, which is no small number.

I personally don’t dare speak out against the BLM narrative, and with this barrage of alleged unity being mass-produced by the administration, tenured professoriat, the UC administration, corporate America, and the media, the punishment for dissent is a clear danger at a time of widespread economic vulnerability. I am certain that if my name were attached to this email, I would lose my job and all future jobs, even though I believe in and can justify every word I type.

The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.

No discussion is permitted for nonblack victims of black violence, who proportionally outnumber black victims of nonblack violence. This is especially bitter in the Bay Area, where Asian victimization by black assailants has reached epidemic proportions, to the point that the SF police chief has advised Asians to stop hanging good-luck charms on their doors, as this attracts the attention of (overwhelmingly black) home invaders. Home invaders like George Floyd. For this actual, lived, physically experienced reality of violence in the USA, there are no marches, no tearful emails from departmental heads, no support from McDonald’s and Wal-Mart. For the History department, our silence is not a mere abrogation of our duty to shed light on the truth: it is a rejection of it.

The claim that black intraracial violence is the product of redlining, slavery, and other injustices is a largely historical claim. It is for historians, therefore, to explain why Japanese internment or the massacre of European Jewry hasn’t led to equivalent rates of dysfunction and low SES performance among Japanese and Jewish Americans respectively. Arab Americans have been viciously demonized since 9/11, as have Chinese Americans more recently. However, both groups outperform white Americans on nearly all SES indices – as do Nigerian Americans, who incidentally have black skin. It is for historians to point out and discuss these anomalies. However, no real discussion is possible in the current climate at our department. The explanation is provided to us, disagreement with it is racist, and the job of historians is to further explore additional ways in which the explanation is additionally correct. This is a mockery of the historical profession.

Most troublingly, our department appears to have been entirely captured by the interests of the Democratic National Convention, and the Democratic Party more broadly. To explain what I mean, consider what happens if you choose to donate to Black Lives Matter, an organization UCB History has explicitly promoted in its recent mailers. All donations to the official BLM website are immediately redirected to ActBlue Charities, an organization primarily concerned with bankrolling election campaigns for Democrat candidates. Donating to BLM today is to indirectly donate to Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign. This is grotesque given the fact that the American cities with the worst rates of black-on-black violence and police-on-black violence are overwhelmingly Democrat-run. Minneapolis itself has been entirely in the hands of Democrats for over five decades; the ‘systemic racism’ there was built by successive Democrat administrations.

The patronizing and condescending attitudes of Democrat leaders towards the black community, exemplified by nearly every Biden statement on the black race, all but guarantee a perpetual state of misery, resentment, poverty, and the attendant grievance politics which are simultaneously annihilating American political discourse and black lives. And yet, donating to BLM is bankrolling the election campaigns of men like Mayor Frey, who saw their cities devolve into violence. This is a grotesque capture of a good-faith movement for necessary police reform, and of our department, by a political party. Even worse, there are virtually no avenues for dissent in academic circles. I refuse to serve the Party, and so should you.

The total alliance of major corporations involved in human exploitation with BLM should be a warning flag to us, and yet this damning evidence goes unnoticed, purposefully ignored, or perversely celebrated. We are the useful idiots of the wealthiest classes, carrying water for Jeff Bezos and other actual, real, modern-day slavers. Starbucks, an organisation using literal black slaves in its coffee plantation suppliers, is in favor of BLM. Sony, an organisation using cobalt mined by yet more literal black slaves, many of whom are children, is in favor of BLM. And so, apparently, are we. The absence of counter-narrative enables this obscenity. Fiat lux, indeed.

There also exists a large constituency of what can only be called ‘race hustlers’: hucksters of all colors who benefit from stoking the fires of racial conflict to secure administrative jobs, charity management positions, academic jobs and advancement, or personal political entrepreneurship.

Given the direction our history department appears to be taking far from any commitment to truth, we can regard ourselves as a formative training institution for this brand of snake-oil salespeople. Their activities are corrosive, demolishing any hope at harmonious racial coexistence in our nation and colonizing our political and institutional life. Many of their voices are unironically segregationist.

MLK would likely be called an Uncle Tom if he spoke on our campus today. We are training leaders who intend, explicitly, to destroy one of the only truly successful ethnically diverse societies in modern history. As the PRC, an ethnonationalist and aggressively racially chauvinist national polity with null immigration and no concept of jus solis increasingly presents itself as the global political alternative to the US, I ask you: Is this wise? Are we really doing the right thing?

As a final point, our university and department has made multiple statements celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd. Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors.

And yet, the regents of UC and the historians of the UCB History department are celebrating this violent criminal, elevating his name to virtual sainthood. A man who hurt women. A man who hurt black women. With the full collaboration of the UCB history department, corporate America, most mainstream media outlets, and some of the wealthiest and most privileged opinion-shaping elites of the USA, he has become a culture hero, buried in a golden casket, his (recognized) family showered with gifts and praise. Americans are being socially pressured into kneeling for this violent, abusive misogynist. A generation of black men are being coerced into identifying with George Floyd, the absolute worst specimen of our race and species.

I’m ashamed of my department. I would say that I’m ashamed of both of you, but perhaps you agree with me, and are simply afraid, as I am, of the backlash of speaking the truth. It’s hard to know what kneeling means, when you have to kneel to keep your job.

It shouldn’t affect the strength of my argument above, but for the record, I write as a person of color. My family have been personally victimized by men like Floyd. We are aware of the condescending depredations of the Democrat party against our race. The humiliating assumption that we are too stupid to do STEM, that we need special help and lower requirements to get ahead in life, is richly familiar to us. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn’t be easier to deal with open fascists, who at least would be straightforward in calling me a subhuman, and who are unlikely to share my race.

The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating. No other group in America is systematically demoralized in this way by its alleged allies. A whole generation of black children are being taught that only by begging and weeping and screaming will they get handouts from guilt-ridden whites.

No message will more surely devastate their futures, especially if whites run out of guilt, or indeed if America runs out of whites. If this had been done to Japanese Americans, or Jewish Americans, or Chinese Americans, then Chinatown and Japantown would surely be no different to the roughest parts of Baltimore and East St. Louis today. The History department of UCB is now an integral institutional promulgator of a destructive and denigrating fallacy about the black race.

I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party’s uncontested capture of our department. I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.

I also want to protect the practice of history. Cleo is no grovelling handmaiden to politicians and corporations. Like us, she is free.'


(Edit: link to Wilfred Reilly's tweet added at the top)

[Edited 7/17/20 9:52am]

Life Matters
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Reply #1 posted 07/11/20 5:23pm

v10letblues

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most of the "naratives" i see in threads like this are "conjured" naratives by those with an axe to grind. The right wing is famous fo making up their own "arguments" to fit a narrative of their construct.

.

I am not defending EVERYONE who supports or the movement as people are different and not EVERYONE who supports BLM is a homogenous blob that believs or supports EVERYTHING a few have spouted.

.

But these types of threads are ALWAYS bait.

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Reply #2 posted 07/11/20 6:08pm

13cjk13

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v10letblues said:

most of the "naratives" i see in threads like this are "conjured" naratives by those with an axe to grind. The right wing is famous fo making up their own "arguments" to fit a narrative of their construct.

.

I am not defending EVERYONE who supports or the movement as people are different and not EVERYONE who supports BLM is a homogenous blob that believs or supports EVERYTHING a few have spouted.

.

But these types of threads are ALWAYS bait.

Anything with Thomas Sowell in it is bait.

"hey if you found out someone gave you a fake $20 would you be mad?"It is in fact #TRUTH.Mocha ObsidianˈN(y)o͞obēən Cocoa Noir...
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Reply #3 posted 07/11/20 6:18pm

IanRG

v10letblues said:

most of the "naratives" i see in threads like this are "conjured" naratives by those with an axe to grind. The right wing is famous fo making up their own "arguments" to fit a narrative of their construct.

.

I am not defending EVERYONE who supports or the movement as people are different and not EVERYONE who supports BLM is a homogenous blob that believs or supports EVERYTHING a few have spouted.

.

But these types of threads are ALWAYS bait.

.

Exactly right - All Reilly confirmed is someone sent him a copy of the anonymous email to him.

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All dressed up as if Reilly and Sowell confirmed more than this, but they did not.

.

The email was purportedly from some unknown person who claims to work for a completely different Uni from either Reilly or Sowell that was sent to 3 undisclosed professors in this anonymous persons' Uni. The sender claims they have met the three undisclosed professors but admits they would not really know this person. The email that replicates the far right position against people protesting against systemic racist violence by the police and criminal justice system and was deliberately sent to Reilly and Sowell. These are two people that will use this for far-right political advantage.

.

The single most important part of the email is the anonymous person says "I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform."

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Reply #4 posted 07/11/20 6:39pm

DiminutiveRock
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It's bait. Let's see who takes it, that will be telling.

“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.”
-George Orwell, 1984
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Reply #5 posted 07/11/20 7:15pm

jjhunsecker

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I suspect that email was a fraud. That the writer was not truly who he claimed to be...

Probably it was Stephen Miller, or the head writer for the Tucker Carlson show... the essence of this article is to ask, in a pseudo intellectually and with an air of academic interest, why are Black people so awful, as compared to “model “ minorities like Asians and Jews. Why can’t these lazy shiftless oversexed and irresponsible Black savages lift themselves up by their bootstraps and be just like regular White Americans?
[Edited 7/11/20 19:22pm]
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Reply #6 posted 07/11/20 7:46pm

jjhunsecker

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Also the article seems to be saying (again, wrapped in pseudo academic tones) that George Floyd was in essence, a n***er, who, while we won’t say that he DESERVED to be killed by the police, was truly such a violent Black animal, that well, we should not waste any tears over him
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Reply #7 posted 07/11/20 8:17pm

13cjk13

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jjhunsecker said:

I suspect that email was a fraud. That the writer was not truly who he claimed to be... Probably it was Stephen Miller, or the head writer for the Tucker Carlson show... the essence of this article is to ask, in a pseudo intellectually and with an air of academic interest, why are Black people so awful, as compared to “model “ minorities like Asians and Jews. Why can’t these lazy shiftless oversexed and irresponsible Black savages lift themselves up by their bootstraps and be just like regular White Americans? [Edited 7/11/20 19:22pm]

yeahthat

"hey if you found out someone gave you a fake $20 would you be mad?"It is in fact #TRUTH.Mocha ObsidianˈN(y)o͞obēən Cocoa Noir...
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Reply #8 posted 07/11/20 8:17pm

13cjk13

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jjhunsecker said:

Also the article seems to be saying (again, wrapped in pseudo academic tones) that George Floyd was in essence, a n***er, who, while we won’t say that he DESERVED to be killed by the police, was truly such a violent Black animal, that well, we should not waste any tears over him

And, yeahthat, too.

"hey if you found out someone gave you a fake $20 would you be mad?"It is in fact #TRUTH.Mocha ObsidianˈN(y)o͞obēən Cocoa Noir...
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Reply #9 posted 07/12/20 1:22am

CherryMoon57

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'.C. Berkeley’s history department issued a statement regarding the anonymous letter, and instead of addressing – or inviting a vigorous debate over its content, Berkeley’s response validates one of the letter’s core claims that dissent outside “a tightly policed, narrow discourse” is not welcome.'

An anonymous letter has been circulating, purportedly written by a professor. We have no evidence that this letter was written by a History faculty member. We condemn this letter: it goes against our values as a department and our commitment to equity and inclusion.

Life Matters
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Reply #10 posted 07/12/20 1:28am

CherryMoon57

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The responders to this thread seem to have a problem with this letter. All are all welcome to debate over the content of the letter to explain the cause of their discontentment.

Life Matters
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Reply #11 posted 07/12/20 1:37am

CherryMoon57

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Thomas Sowell on the Origins of Economic Disparities


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdHEbOAQFmY&list=PL4kEVE4Q4H1BXUojVkUk_WdZjti-ivPnU&index=33


'Recorded on April 1, 2019 Is discrimination the reason behind economic inequality in the United States? Thomas Sowell dismisses that question with a newly revised edition of his book Discrimination and Disparities. He sits down with Peter Robinson to discuss the long history of disparities among humans around the world and throughout time. He argues that discrimination has significantly less of a role to play in inequality than contemporary politicians give it credit for, and that something as incontrovertible as birth order of children has a more significant and statistically higher impact on success than discrimination. He discusses why parental attention is the most important aspect of a child’s intellectual development.

Sowell goes on to break down different minority groups around the world who went on to have more economic and political success than their majority counterparts, such as the Indians in East Africa, Jewish people in Eastern Europe, Cubans in the United States, and the Chinese in Malaysia. He argues that there is an underlying assumption that if discrimination was absent equality would prevail, which historically has been proven wrong.

Sowell goes on to discuss changes in crime rates and poverty since the expansion of US welfare programs in the 1960s and how this has had a huge impact on the success of African Americans. He talks about his own experience growing up in New York, how housing projects used to be considered a positive place to live, and his experience as the first member of his family to enter the seventh grade. Robinson asks Sowell his thoughts on the case for reparations currently being made in Congress, and Sowell presents an argument about why a plan for reparations is not only illogical but also impossible to implement, with so many US citizens’ ancestors arriving long after the Civil War. He also explains that slavery was common throughout the known world for thousands of years and that abolition movements didn’t begin anywhere in the world until the late 18th century. He reminds us that the United States was not the only country guilty of participating in slavery and yet is the only country debating reparations.'


Life Matters
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Reply #12 posted 07/12/20 1:59am

deebee

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jjhunsecker said:

I suspect that email was a fraud. That the writer was not truly who he claimed to be... Probably it was Stephen Miller, or the head writer for the Tucker Carlson show... the essence of this article is to ask, in a pseudo intellectually and with an air of academic interest, why are Black people so awful, as compared to “model “ minorities like Asians and Jews. Why can’t these lazy shiftless oversexed and irresponsible Black savages lift themselves up by their bootstraps and be just like regular White Americans?


I literally wrote this on the other thread. lol These things have been going around in one form or another for years.

deebee said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I was very keen on the 'BLM' movement at first but then I changed my mind when I realised what the leading agenda behind it was, especially with regards to where the collected funds go.


I can only imagine your journey. Out of interest, were you also the author of a chain email I received many years ago, detailing your tragic disillusionment at having been all for the Blacks until your Black pal confessed that, in truth, they were all shiftless wretches that didn't try hard enough, then blamed it all on Whitey....?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #13 posted 07/12/20 2:09am

IanRG

CherryMoon57 said:

The responders to this thread seem to have a problem with this letter. All are all welcome to debate over the content of the letter to explain the cause of their discontentment.

.

Its content is bullshit and its existence is almost certainly a hoax. Ironic given the only person who has confirmed anything about it Wilfred Reilly - a person with a history of writing hate crimes by his side of politics as hoaxes - And even all he confirmed is he received a copy of the email - no mention about how or who sent it.

.

On the content, as I said before, the only thing useful in it is the anonymous person says "I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform." But you seemed to have problem addressing this.

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Reply #14 posted 07/12/20 4:09am

CherryMoon57

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IanRG said:

CherryMoon57 said:

The responders to this thread seem to have a problem with this letter. All are all welcome to debate over the content of the letter to explain the cause of their discontentment.

.

Its content is bullshit and its existence is almost certainly a hoax. Ironic given the only person who has confirmed anything about it Wilfred Reilly - a person with a history of writing hate crimes by his side of politics as hoaxes - And even all he confirmed is he received a copy of the email - no mention about how or who sent it.

.

On the content, as I said before, the only thing useful in it is the anonymous person says "I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform." But you seemed to have problem addressing this.


Thanks for sharing your views that this very small portion of the letter is the only one worth our attention. While this may be to you, it is not for me or many others (you know that a whole world exists outside the org, right?). We all have a right to express our views, just like the author of the letter, whoever he or she may be.

In any case, I think it's best to take the selected portion in the context of the paragraph it comes with, which reads:

'I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party’s uncontested capture of our department.
I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.'

As for improving the way the police operates (not the defunding or abolishing of), I'm all up for it too and never said I wasn't. But that's totally beside the main point of this paragraph/letter.

Life Matters
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Reply #15 posted 07/12/20 4:21am

CherryMoon57

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jjhunsecker said:

Also the article seems to be saying (again, wrapped in pseudo academic tones) that George Floyd was in essence, a n***er, who, while we won’t say that he DESERVED to be killed by the police, was truly such a violent Black animal, that well, we should not waste any tears over him

No it doesn't. This letter desperately seeks to help people view others beyond the color of their skin. Your mis-interpretation of it, however, is imbued with racism.

Life Matters
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Reply #16 posted 07/12/20 4:32am

CherryMoon57

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jjhunsecker said:

I suspect that email was a fraud. That the writer was not truly who he claimed to be... Probably it was Stephen Miller, or the head writer for the Tucker Carlson show... the essence of this article is to ask, in a pseudo intellectually and with an air of academic interest, why are Black people so awful, as compared to “model “ minorities like Asians and Jews. Why can’t these lazy shiftless oversexed and irresponsible Black savages lift themselves up by their bootstraps and be just like regular White Americans? [Edited 7/11/20 19:22pm]

For all I know you could be a fraud. You certainly seem very keen to reinforce these negative views of African Americans.

Life Matters
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Reply #17 posted 07/12/20 5:03am

maplenpg

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CherryMoon57 said:

jjhunsecker said:

Also the article seems to be saying (again, wrapped in pseudo academic tones) that George Floyd was in essence, a n***er, who, while we won’t say that he DESERVED to be killed by the police, was truly such a violent Black animal, that well, we should not waste any tears over him

No it doesn't. This letter desperately seeks to help people view others beyond the color of their skin. Your mis-interpretation of it, however, is imbued with racism.

I'm sorry Cherry, I'm with JJ and a number of others here. There is no doubt that the line you yourself made bold implies that George Floyd deserved to die. "However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end."

There is plenty of racism in the article, there is none in what JJ says.

As for the comment about the letter wanting to help people view people beyong the colour of their skin - I don't understand for one moment how you get that from the letter. The letter serves no purpose other than to perpetuate the views that others have articulated on this thread already.

[Edited 7/12/20 5:06am]

The Org is my playground and y'all are my playmates.
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Reply #18 posted 07/12/20 5:19am

maplenpg

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CherryMoon57 said:

jjhunsecker said:

I suspect that email was a fraud. That the writer was not truly who he claimed to be... Probably it was Stephen Miller, or the head writer for the Tucker Carlson show... the essence of this article is to ask, in a pseudo intellectually and with an air of academic interest, why are Black people so awful, as compared to “model “ minorities like Asians and Jews. Why can’t these lazy shiftless oversexed and irresponsible Black savages lift themselves up by their bootstraps and be just like regular White Americans? [Edited 7/11/20 19:22pm]

For all I know you could be a fraud. You certainly seem very keen to reinforce these negative views of African Americans.

Oh come on. JJ has been on here for a long long time and he's always honest and open. Instead of attacking his comments, maybe give some consideration as to how he came to the conclusion he came to. Because aside from yourself and DJ, I think everyone agrees with him, so are we all frauds too?

The Org is my playground and y'all are my playmates.
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Reply #19 posted 07/12/20 5:22am

CherryMoon57

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maplenpg said:

CherryMoon57 said:

No it doesn't. This letter desperately seeks to help people view others beyond the color of their skin. Your mis-interpretation of it, however, is imbued with racism.

I'm sorry Cherry, I'm with JJ and a number of others here. There is no doubt that the line you yourself made bold implies that George Floyd deserved to die. "However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end."

There is plenty of racism in the article, there is none in what JJ says.

As for the comment about the letter wanting to help people view people beyong the colour of their skin - I don't understand for one moment how you get that from the letter. The letter serves no purpose other than to perpetuate the views that others have articulated on this thread already.

[Edited 7/12/20 5:06am]

Then you should read the whole letter again, if you haven't already done so. As for jj's constant use of negative stereotypes in reference to African Americans, whether ironically or not and regardless of whether you agree or not, I am sorry maple, but that serves no other purpose than to reinforce racist mindsets.

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Reply #20 posted 07/12/20 5:29am

CherryMoon57

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maplenpg said:

CherryMoon57 said:

For all I know you could be a fraud. You certainly seem very keen to reinforce these negative views of African Americans.

Oh come on. JJ has been on here for a long long time and he's always honest and open. Instead of attacking his comments, maybe give some consideration as to how he came to the conclusion he came to. Because aside from yourself and DJ, I think everyone agrees with him, so are we all frauds too?

I didn't really mean it of course, it was just an ironic comment. But I am sure jj knew exactely what my point was.

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Reply #21 posted 07/12/20 5:33am

CherryMoon57

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For me, this is one of the most important part:

'The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.'

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Reply #22 posted 07/12/20 5:36am

CherryMoon57

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Apologies to you jj for saying you were a 'fraud'. I didn't mean it.

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Reply #23 posted 07/12/20 5:55am

IanRG

CherryMoon57 said:

IanRG said:

.

Its content is bullshit and its existence is almost certainly a hoax. Ironic given the only person who has confirmed anything about it Wilfred Reilly - a person with a history of writing hate crimes by his side of politics as hoaxes - And even all he confirmed is he received a copy of the email - no mention about how or who sent it.

.

On the content, as I said before, the only thing useful in it is the anonymous person says "I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform." But you seemed to have problem addressing this.


Thanks for sharing your views that this very small portion of the letter is the only one worth our attention. While this may be to you, it is not for me or many others (you know that a whole world exists outside the org, right?). We all have a right to express our views, just like the author of the letter, whoever he or she may be.

In any case, I think it's best to take the selected portion in the context of the paragraph it comes with, which reads:

'I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party’s uncontested capture of our department.
I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.'

As for improving the way the police operates (not the defunding or abolishing of), I'm all up for it too and never said I wasn't. But that's totally beside the main point of this paragraph/letter.

.

I do not know why you think anyone is saying you cannot express your views. This is instead just another thread where you cannot handle people having different views.

.

As I said before but you missed - the rest of hoax letter is bullshit. It is almost certaintly is not from any history Professor from Berkley. It is just the same far-right racist extremist view that you have been peddling across multiple threads now. It is not convincing to anyone who is not already posting the same content. It is racist. As almost certainly a hoax, it is, therefore a lie. It is intellectually moribund. It is not worth addressing further.

.

As to the pretending that people who express the view that people who want to systemic racist violence by the police and criminal justice system to end are somehow outnumbered by your group of many outside the org - You need to get out of the types of websites you frequent and see the real world. The number of people that think a police man taking 8 mimutes and 46 seconds to kill a restrained person in the street is OK because that person was from the wrong race and did not lead a perfect record is much larger than you understand.

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Reply #24 posted 07/12/20 6:01am

poppys

CherryMoon57 said:

Apologies to you jj for saying you were a 'fraud'. I didn't mean it.


This is just pathetic in so many ways. Along with the entire thread premise.

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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Reply #25 posted 07/12/20 6:48am

djThunderfunk

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CherryMoon57 said:


I think this deserves its own thread.

*****Below is an anonymous letter which - it has been confirmed by Wilfred Reilly, was sent to him and Dr. Thomas Sowell. *****


I can confirm that the letter in the thread below was sent to me and Tom Sowell. It's really worth reading, in a time of widespread panic.
MuXU4F9a_normal.jpg
Tracy Beanz
@tracybeanz
· Jun 12
Thread: I was sent this and felt the need to thread it here on Twitter. It will be long. It is purported to be an anonymous, open letter from a professor at UK Berkeley in the History Department. The only comment I will make is to say it is worth every moment of the read.



'Dear profs X, Y, Z

I am one of your colleagues at the University of California, Berkeley. I have met you both personally but do not know you closely, and am contacting you anonymously, with apologies. I am worried that writing this email publicly might lead to me losing my job, and likely all future jobs in my field.

In your recent departmental emails you mentioned our pledge to diversity, but I am increasingly alarmed by the absence of diversity of opinion on the topic of the recent protests and our community response to them.

In the extended links and resources you provided, I could not find a single instance of substantial counter-argument or alternative narrative to explain the under-representation of black individuals in academia or their over-representation in the criminal justice system. The explanation provided in your documentation, to the near exclusion of all others, is univariate: the problems of the black community are caused by whites, or, when whites are not physically present, by the infiltration of white supremacy and white systemic racism into American brains, souls, and institutions.

Many cogent objections to this thesis have been raised by sober voices, including from within the black community itself, such as Thomas Sowell and Wilfred Reilly. These people are not racists or ‘Uncle Toms’. They are intelligent scholars who reject a narrative that strips black people of agency and systematically externalizes the problems of the black community onto outsiders. Their view is entirely absent from the departmental and UCB-wide communiques.

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis that should be vigorously challenged by historians. Instead, it is being treated as an axiomatic and actionable truth without serious consideration of its profound flaws, or its worrying implication of total black impotence. This hypothesis is transforming our institution and our culture, without any space for dissent outside of a tightly policed, narrow discourse.

A counternarrative exists. If you have time, please consider examining some of the documents I attach at the end of this email. Overwhelmingly, the reasoning provided by BLM and allies is either primarily anecdotal (as in the case with the bulk of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ undeniably moving article) or it is transparently motivated. As an example of the latter problem, consider the proportion of black incarcerated Americans. This proportion is often used to characterize the criminal justice system as anti-black. However, if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black.

Would we characterize criminal justice as a systemically misandrist conspiracy against innocent American men? I hope you see that this type of reasoning is flawed, and requires a significant suspension of our rational faculties. Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict. This fact has been demonstrated multiple times across multiple jurisdictions in multiple countries.

And yet, I see my department uncritically reproducing a narrative that diminishes black agency in favor of a white-centric explanation that appeals to the department’s apparent desire to shoulder the ‘white man’s burden’ and to promote a narrative of white guilt.

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews. None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. “Those are racist dogwhistles”. “The model minority myth is white supremacist”. “Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime”, ad nauseam.

These types of statements do not amount to counterarguments: they are simply arbitrary offensive classifications, intended to silence and oppress discourse. Any serious historian will recognize these for the silencing orthodoxy tactics they are, common to suppressive regimes, doctrines, and religions throughout time and space. They are intended to crush real diversity and permanently exile the culture of robust criticism from our department.

Increasingly, we are being called upon to comply and subscribe to BLM’s problematic view of history, and the department is being presented as unified on the matter. In particular, ethnic minorities are being aggressively marshaled into a single position. Any apparent unity is surely a function of the fact that dissent could almost certainly lead to expulsion or cancellation for those of us in a precarious position, which is no small number.

I personally don’t dare speak out against the BLM narrative, and with this barrage of alleged unity being mass-produced by the administration, tenured professoriat, the UC administration, corporate America, and the media, the punishment for dissent is a clear danger at a time of widespread economic vulnerability. I am certain that if my name were attached to this email, I would lose my job and all future jobs, even though I believe in and can justify every word I type.

The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.

No discussion is permitted for nonblack victims of black violence, who proportionally outnumber black victims of nonblack violence. This is especially bitter in the Bay Area, where Asian victimization by black assailants has reached epidemic proportions, to the point that the SF police chief has advised Asians to stop hanging good-luck charms on their doors, as this attracts the attention of (overwhelmingly black) home invaders. Home invaders like George Floyd. For this actual, lived, physically experienced reality of violence in the USA, there are no marches, no tearful emails from departmental heads, no support from McDonald’s and Wal-Mart. For the History department, our silence is not a mere abrogation of our duty to shed light on the truth: it is a rejection of it.

The claim that black intraracial violence is the product of redlining, slavery, and other injustices is a largely historical claim. It is for historians, therefore, to explain why Japanese internment or the massacre of European Jewry hasn’t led to equivalent rates of dysfunction and low SES performance among Japanese and Jewish Americans respectively. Arab Americans have been viciously demonized since 9/11, as have Chinese Americans more recently. However, both groups outperform white Americans on nearly all SES indices – as do Nigerian Americans, who incidentally have black skin. It is for historians to point out and discuss these anomalies. However, no real discussion is possible in the current climate at our department. The explanation is provided to us, disagreement with it is racist, and the job of historians is to further explore additional ways in which the explanation is additionally correct. This is a mockery of the historical profession.

Most troublingly, our department appears to have been entirely captured by the interests of the Democratic National Convention, and the Democratic Party more broadly. To explain what I mean, consider what happens if you choose to donate to Black Lives Matter, an organization UCB History has explicitly promoted in its recent mailers. All donations to the official BLM website are immediately redirected to ActBlue Charities, an organization primarily concerned with bankrolling election campaigns for Democrat candidates. Donating to BLM today is to indirectly donate to Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign. This is grotesque given the fact that the American cities with the worst rates of black-on-black violence and police-on-black violence are overwhelmingly Democrat-run. Minneapolis itself has been entirely in the hands of Democrats for over five decades; the ‘systemic racism’ there was built by successive Democrat administrations.

The patronizing and condescending attitudes of Democrat leaders towards the black community, exemplified by nearly every Biden statement on the black race, all but guarantee a perpetual state of misery, resentment, poverty, and the attendant grievance politics which are simultaneously annihilating American political discourse and black lives. And yet, donating to BLM is bankrolling the election campaigns of men like Mayor Frey, who saw their cities devolve into violence. This is a grotesque capture of a good-faith movement for necessary police reform, and of our department, by a political party. Even worse, there are virtually no avenues for dissent in academic circles. I refuse to serve the Party, and so should you.

The total alliance of major corporations involved in human exploitation with BLM should be a warning flag to us, and yet this damning evidence goes unnoticed, purposefully ignored, or perversely celebrated. We are the useful idiots of the wealthiest classes, carrying water for Jeff Bezos and other actual, real, modern-day slavers. Starbucks, an organisation using literal black slaves in its coffee plantation suppliers, is in favor of BLM. Sony, an organisation using cobalt mined by yet more literal black slaves, many of whom are children, is in favor of BLM. And so, apparently, are we. The absence of counter-narrative enables this obscenity. Fiat lux, indeed.

There also exists a large constituency of what can only be called ‘race hustlers’: hucksters of all colors who benefit from stoking the fires of racial conflict to secure administrative jobs, charity management positions, academic jobs and advancement, or personal political entrepreneurship.

Given the direction our history department appears to be taking far from any commitment to truth, we can regard ourselves as a formative training institution for this brand of snake-oil salespeople. Their activities are corrosive, demolishing any hope at harmonious racial coexistence in our nation and colonizing our political and institutional life. Many of their voices are unironically segregationist.

MLK would likely be called an Uncle Tom if he spoke on our campus today. We are training leaders who intend, explicitly, to destroy one of the only truly successful ethnically diverse societies in modern history. As the PRC, an ethnonationalist and aggressively racially chauvinist national polity with null immigration and no concept of jus solis increasingly presents itself as the global political alternative to the US, I ask you: Is this wise? Are we really doing the right thing?

As a final point, our university and department has made multiple statements celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd. Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors.

And yet, the regents of UC and the historians of the UCB History department are celebrating this violent criminal, elevating his name to virtual sainthood. A man who hurt women. A man who hurt black women. With the full collaboration of the UCB history department, corporate America, most mainstream media outlets, and some of the wealthiest and most privileged opinion-shaping elites of the USA, he has become a culture hero, buried in a golden casket, his (recognized) family showered with gifts and praise. Americans are being socially pressured into kneeling for this violent, abusive misogynist. A generation of black men are being coerced into identifying with George Floyd, the absolute worst specimen of our race and species.

I’m ashamed of my department. I would say that I’m ashamed of both of you, but perhaps you agree with me, and are simply afraid, as I am, of the backlash of speaking the truth. It’s hard to know what kneeling means, when you have to kneel to keep your job.

It shouldn’t affect the strength of my argument above, but for the record, I write as a person of color. My family have been personally victimized by men like Floyd. We are aware of the condescending depredations of the Democrat party against our race. The humiliating assumption that we are too stupid to do STEM, that we need special help and lower requirements to get ahead in life, is richly familiar to us. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn’t be easier to deal with open fascists, who at least would be straightforward in calling me a subhuman, and who are unlikely to share my race.

The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating. No other group in America is systematically demoralized in this way by its alleged allies. A whole generation of black children are being taught that only by begging and weeping and screaming will they get handouts from guilt-ridden whites.

No message will more surely devastate their futures, especially if whites run out of guilt, or indeed if America runs out of whites. If this had been done to Japanese Americans, or Jewish Americans, or Chinese Americans, then Chinatown and Japantown would surely be no different to the roughest parts of Baltimore and East St. Louis today. The History department of UCB is now an integral institutional promulgator of a destructive and denigrating fallacy about the black race.

I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party’s uncontested capture of our department. I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.

I also want to protect the practice of history. Cleo is no grovelling handmaiden to politicians and corporations. Like us, she is free.'


(Edit: link to Wilfred Reilly's tweet added at the top)

[Edited 7/11/20 17:10pm]



If this letter is "racist", then Don Lemon was straight up white supremicist in 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/w...NdT4qbDIe4


Considering how he reacts to Terry Crews today, one could assume Lemon would condemn his past self as racist:

https://www.youtube.com/w...zR8x_jlGaI


It's sad that open and honest discussion is condemned and falsely villified as "racist" to silence any dissent and reinforce the narrative.


Censorship is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it or how noble their motivation.
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Reply #26 posted 07/12/20 7:02am

poppys

Welcome Back!

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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Reply #27 posted 07/12/20 7:05am

CherryMoon57

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IanRG said:

CherryMoon57 said:


Thanks for sharing your views that this very small portion of the letter is the only one worth our attention. While this may be to you, it is not for me or many others (you know that a whole world exists outside the org, right?). We all have a right to express our views, just like the author of the letter, whoever he or she may be.

In any case, I think it's best to take the selected portion in the context of the paragraph it comes with, which reads:

'I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party’s uncontested capture of our department.
I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd’s death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.'

As for improving the way the police operates (not the defunding or abolishing of), I'm all up for it too and never said I wasn't. But that's totally beside the main point of this paragraph/letter.

.

I do not know why you think anyone is saying you cannot express your views. This is instead just another thread where you cannot handle people having different views.

.

As I said before but you missed - the rest of hoax letter is bullshit. It is almost certaintly is not from any history Professor from Berkley. It is just the same far-right racist extremist view that you have been peddling across multiple threads now. It is not convincing to anyone who is not already posting the same content. It is racist. As almost certainly a hoax, it is, therefore a lie. It is intellectually moribund. It is not worth addressing further.

.

As to the pretending that people who express the view that people who want to systemic racist violence by the police and criminal justice system to end are somehow outnumbered by your group of many outside the org - You need to get out of the types of websites you frequent and see the real world. The number of people that think a police man taking 8 mimutes and 46 seconds to kill a restrained person in the street is OK because that person was from the wrong race and did not lead a perfect record is much larger than you understand.


In what way is this letter a 'hoax'? What is the basis of that judgement? Reilly not only confirmed it was sent to him and Sowell, but he also supported the valid views expressed in the letter. The letter also reflects Sowell's views. There are a lot of very interesting interviews of Sowell out there, people should listen to what he has to say, especially since he has a lot of experience in this domain. Instead everyone prefers pushing for this corporate-led stereotypical and extremely damaging BLM narrative without any second thought. And no one here ever said the way Floyd died was 'OK'. These are the kinds of unecessary distortions that will ruin any possibility of open honest discussions.

Life Matters
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Reply #28 posted 07/12/20 7:08am

djThunderfunk

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CherryMoon57 said:


In what way is this letter a 'hoax'? What is the basis of that judgement? Reilly not only confirmed it was sent to him and Sowell, but he also supported the valid views expressed in the letter. The letter also reflects Sowell's views. There are a lot of very interesting interviews of Sowell out there, people should listen to what he has to say, especially since he has a lot of experience in this domain. Instead everyone prefers pushing for this corporate-led stereotypical and extremely damaging BLM narrative without any second thought. And no one here ever said the way Floyd died was 'OK'. These are the kinds of unecessary distortions that will ruin any possibility of open honest discussions.


Yes, and that's the whole point.

Censorship is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it or how noble their motivation.
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Reply #29 posted 07/12/20 7:21am

maplenpg

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CherryMoon57 said:

For me, this is one of the most important part:

'The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.'

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/06/stop-using-black-on-black-crime-to-deflect-away-from-police-brutality.html

https://www.miamiherald.c...87602.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....MC5004736/


The Org is my playground and y'all are my playmates.
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