independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Politics & Religion > Covid-19: Daily US Count + related issues
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 7 of 18 « First<34567891011>Last »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #180 posted 06/28/20 11:23pm

TweetyV6

avatar

DiminutiveRocker said:

TweetyV6 said:

There is a 2nd spike in daily infections.
That MUST lead to a 2nd spike in deaths.

It doesn't.

The only other explanation is that the method of measuring has changed.
Most probably the amount of tests taken has increased. That will lead to more positive results.

If the police measures the speed of trafic for 1 hour they find x vehicles that speed.
If they increase the amount of measurements (e.g. by doing it for 2 hours) they will absolutely find a larger amount of speeding vehicles.

But that doesn't mean that the amount of accidents on that road will also increase.


What you don't measure (and thus don't see) doesn't mean that it isn't there. rolleyes


No one has said there is a spike in deaths - there is a spike in infections and the more people who have it will spread it and the chances of the most vulnerable getting it increases. More infections mean more people in hospitals and that means the more taxing it is on the healthcare system. See, unlike the Netherlands, we care about our senior citizens, we care about the healthcare workers and we care about ALL the people who get the virus. It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen, and they are just beginning to see that it could have long term effects on those who survived it.

so again stfu with your condescending and often incorrect OPINION.

I can't help you're ill informed.

Look at the results from the university of Insbruck. They researched the Ischgl outbreak, which is considered the 'ground zero' of European infections.
42.4% of the people in Ischgl have found to be infected.
85% of these people indicate they haven't had any symptoms or symptoms that mild that they thought it was a simple cold.

85% of the infected people... let that figure sink in.

These people weren't tested because they were not elligible to get tested (since they had no symptoms) So would these people have been tested at the time the outbreak was on its high in Ischgl, these people would have been tested positive, giving a major boost in infections, but at the same time minimizing the fatality rate.

So to say 'It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen' is beyond ridiculous.
In may countries it has been less lethal then the flu pandemic 2017/2018.
Excess mortality figures provide proof for that. E.g. in the Netherlands the flu 2017/2018 killed about 9.500 people, SARS-CoV-2 killed about 7.000 so far.

Reality sucks, doesn't it.

Also, if you look at excess mortality rateds in different countries, you'll notice that they are back to normal. Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #181 posted 06/28/20 11:28pm

cborgman

avatar

TweetyV6 said:

Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

you should tell that to the 1000 people a day dying in america from it. im sure theyll be relieved to know.

.

[Edited 6/28/20 23:31pm]

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #182 posted 06/28/20 11:29pm

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

maplenpg said:

There are many reasons deaths are falling. Mostly to do with lockdowns and us learning how to best treat the virus. We should not be complacent about a rise in cases not leading to a similar rise in deaths though - those people with positive results must isolate to protect the vulnerable and keep deaths down, otherwise the death rate will rise steeply.


Nope.
There is no significant difference in the rise & decline of infections & deaths between countries which have had very different lock down approaches.

Data say NO!

Farr's law says that the pool of potential vicims has been minimized; those who were very likely to die when they would become infected, have died off. Hence the potential to die from Covid-19 is drastically minimised resulting in a normal excess death rate in most countries. Even the US.

.

Sweden vs rest of Scandinavia (RoS).

.

Data says YES!

.

RoS with effective lockdowns both did not rise as sharpely as Sweden, peaked earlier than Sweden and fell sharper than Sweden.

.

You really need to keep away from the internet if you think Farr's law means anything about the significant differences in rise and decline of infections and deaths being actually seen. It is just a 19th century prediction about shapes of the curves. It is not about comparisons of rates or totals. You really need to look at the different shapes, and especially the different levels of outcomes.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #183 posted 06/28/20 11:33pm

TweetyV6

avatar

IanRG said:

TweetyV6 said:

There is a 2nd spike in daily infections.
That MUST lead to a 2nd spike in deaths.

It doesn't.

The only other explanation is that the method of measuring has changed.
Most probably the amount of tests taken has increased. That will lead to more positive results.

If the police measures the speed of trafic for 1 hour they find x vehicles that speed.
If they increase the amount of measurements (e.g. by doing it for 2 hours) they will absolutely find a larger amount of speeding vehicles.

But that doesn't mean that the amount of accidents on that road will also increase.


What you don't measure (and thus don't see) doesn't mean that it isn't there. rolleyes

.

No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.


Yes there has to be.

If the IFR, Infection Fatality Rate = x then with an increase of of infections, the deaths MUST rise with a factor x.

If that not happens, your method of measurment was/is flawed.
No discussion possible.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #184 posted 06/28/20 11:36pm

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

IanRG said:

.

No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.


Yes there has to be.

If the IFR, Infection Fatality Rate = x then with an increase of of infections, the deaths MUST rise with a factor x.

If that not happens, your method of measurment was/is flawed.
No discussion possible.

.

No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.

.

You are demonstrating a lack of knowledge on statistics, logic and how viruses work. Firstly, the deaths follow 2 or more weeks behind. The rate of deaths depends on many different factors - age of the person - this is lowering. Knowledge of the health system in what to look for and prevent deaths in those with Covid19 - this is increasing so they know to look for. Changes in the virus over time - there is increasing evidence that the virus may be reducing in strength, a common process for viruses as generally the more deadly they are, the less they able to spread from live victims.

.

You car analogy is incomplete and seriously flawed - anthropomorphic climate change denier flawed. To complete the analogy so it represents the facts: If you change how vehicles can handle the accidents, you can have more accidents but less deaths. If you improve the health system knowledge, access and processes to treate accident victims so they die less regularly, you can have more accidents but less deaths.

.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #185 posted 06/28/20 11:42pm

TweetyV6

avatar

poppys said:

We are talking to someone who went to Italy right before it shutdown, stayed and went out to restaurants etc, then came back to the Netherlands spreading Covid-19 and coming down with it himself. wall

Says someone who apparently doesn't understand that Italy is larger then Bergamo.
The region I visited (Montecatini Terme) hasn't had ANY deaths so far.

And how would you know I have been spreading the SARS-CoV-2 virus?
No one in my immediate surrounding has been tested positive.

So a sincerely, flipped off

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #186 posted 06/28/20 11:47pm

TweetyV6

avatar

IanRG said:

TweetyV6 said:


Yes there has to be.

If the IFR, Infection Fatality Rate = x then with an increase of of infections, the deaths MUST rise with a factor x.

If that not happens, your method of measurment was/is flawed.
No discussion possible.

.

No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.

.

Yes there has to be.

If the IFR, Infection Fatality Rate = x then with an increase of of infections, the deaths MUST rise with a factor x.

If that not happens, your method of measurment was/is flawed.
No discussion possible.


The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #187 posted 06/28/20 11:47pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #188 posted 06/28/20 11:50pm

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

IanRG said:

.

No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.

.

Yes there has to be.

If the IFR, Infection Fatality Rate = x then with an increase of of infections, the deaths MUST rise with a factor x.

If that not happens, your method of measurment was/is flawed.
No discussion possible.


No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.

.

You are demonstrating a lack of knowledge on statistics, logic and how viruses work. Firstly, the deaths follow 2 or more weeks behind. The rate of deaths depends on many different factors - age of the person - this is lowering. Knowledge of the health system in what to look for and prevent deaths in those with Covid19 - this is increasing so they know to look for. Changes in the virus over time - there is increasing evidence that the virus may be reducing in strength, a common process for viruses as generally the more deadly they are, the less they able to spread from live victims.

.

You car analogy is incomplete and seriously flawed - anthropomorphic climate change denier flawed. To complete the analogy so it represents the facts: If you change how vehicles can handle the accidents, you can have more accidents but less deaths. If you improve the health system knowledge, access and processes to treate accident victims so they die less regularly, you can have more accidents but less deaths.

.

That you edit this out instaed of addressing this is because you cannot understand this. Your understanding is flawed in several ways. No surprise here.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #189 posted 06/28/20 11:51pm

maplenpg

TweetyV6 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


No one has said there is a spike in deaths - there is a spike in infections and the more people who have it will spread it and the chances of the most vulnerable getting it increases. More infections mean more people in hospitals and that means the more taxing it is on the healthcare system. See, unlike the Netherlands, we care about our senior citizens, we care about the healthcare workers and we care about ALL the people who get the virus. It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen, and they are just beginning to see that it could have long term effects on those who survived it.

so again stfu with your condescending and often incorrect OPINION.

I can't help you're ill informed.

Look at the results from the university of Insbruck. They researched the Ischgl outbreak, which is considered the 'ground zero' of European infections.
42.4% of the people in Ischgl have found to be infected.
85% of these people indicate they haven't had any symptoms or symptoms that mild that they thought it was a simple cold.

85% of the infected people... let that figure sink in.

These people weren't tested because they were not elligible to get tested (since they had no symptoms) So would these people have been tested at the time the outbreak was on its high in Ischgl, these people would have been tested positive, giving a major boost in infections, but at the same time minimizing the fatality rate.

So to say 'It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen' is beyond ridiculous.
In may countries it has been less lethal then the flu pandemic 2017/2018.
Excess mortality figures provide proof for that. E.g. in the Netherlands the flu 2017/2018 killed about 9.500 people, SARS-CoV-2 killed about 7.000 so far.

Reality sucks, doesn't it.

Also, if you look at excess mortality rateds in different countries, you'll notice that they are back to normal. Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

It's helpful if you provide a link. Here I've done it for you. https://www.i-med.ac.at/p...20/40.html. Lots to critique about what you've written here, but I've simply no time now. As Arnie says, "I'll be back" cool

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #190 posted 06/29/20 12:06am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

TweetyV6 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


No one has said there is a spike in deaths - there is a spike in infections and the more people who have it will spread it and the chances of the most vulnerable getting it increases. More infections mean more people in hospitals and that means the more taxing it is on the healthcare system. See, unlike the Netherlands, we care about our senior citizens, we care about the healthcare workers and we care about ALL the people who get the virus. It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen, and they are just beginning to see that it could have long term effects on those who survived it.

so again stfu with your condescending and often incorrect OPINION.

I can't help you're ill informed.

Look at the results from the university of Insbruck. They researched the Ischgl outbreak, which is considered the 'ground zero' of European infections.
42.4% of the people in Ischgl have found to be infected.
85% of these people indicate they haven't had any symptoms or symptoms that mild that they thought it was a simple cold.

85% of the infected people... let that figure sink in.

These people weren't tested because they were not elligible to get tested (since they had no symptoms) So would these people have been tested at the time the outbreak was on its high in Ischgl, these people would have been tested positive, giving a major boost in infections, but at the same time minimizing the fatality rate.

So to say 'It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen' is beyond ridiculous.
In may countries it has been less lethal then the flu pandemic 2017/2018.
Excess mortality figures provide proof for that. E.g. in the Netherlands the flu 2017/2018 killed about 9.500 people, SARS-CoV-2 killed about 7.000 so far.

Reality sucks, doesn't it.

Also, if you look at excess mortality rateds in different countries, you'll notice that they are back to normal. Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

Nothing you say is true. Go bore some other music website with your fake news.

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #191 posted 06/29/20 12:30am

TweetyV6

avatar

DiminutiveRocker said:

TweetyV6 said:

I can't help you're ill informed.

Look at the results from the university of Insbruck. They researched the Ischgl outbreak, which is considered the 'ground zero' of European infections.
42.4% of the people in Ischgl have found to be infected.
85% of these people indicate they haven't had any symptoms or symptoms that mild that they thought it was a simple cold.

85% of the infected people... let that figure sink in.

These people weren't tested because they were not elligible to get tested (since they had no symptoms) So would these people have been tested at the time the outbreak was on its high in Ischgl, these people would have been tested positive, giving a major boost in infections, but at the same time minimizing the fatality rate.

So to say 'It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen' is beyond ridiculous.
In may countries it has been less lethal then the flu pandemic 2017/2018.
Excess mortality figures provide proof for that. E.g. in the Netherlands the flu 2017/2018 killed about 9.500 people, SARS-CoV-2 killed about 7.000 so far.

Reality sucks, doesn't it.

Also, if you look at excess mortality rateds in different countries, you'll notice that they are back to normal. Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

Nothing you say is true. Go bore some other music website with your fake news.


Fact 1
Ischgl was a Corona hotspot, one of the first in Europe, the only one with very big impact as it is a very popular wintersport town. Infections were traced back to visitors from New Zealand.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/ischgl-oesterreichisches-skiparadies-als-corona-hotspot/

Fact 2
42.4% of the people of Ischgl have been tested positive; 85% of those did not have symptoms or very mild symptoms of which people did not think they were due to Corona

https://science.apa.at/rubrik/medizin_und_biotech/Coronavirus_-_Bei_Antikoerperstudie_in_Ischgl_42_4_Prozent_positiv/SCI_20200625_SCI39371351255217216?fbclid=IwAR39691VBx30753Af21BAvYD_wN9I5I3hYUtpab0fIV-WM__58p1shYMH5k

Fact 3
Flu pandemic in 2017/2018 caused about 9.444 deaths in the Netherlands

Terugblik

In de winter van (2017/2018) was de sterfte 15 weken lang verhoogd (week 51 2017 t/m 14 2018). De verhoogde sterfte viel samen met de griepepidemie die plaatsvond van week 50 2017 tot en met week 15 2018. De oversterfte tijdens de 18 weken griepepidemie werd geschat op 9.444

Looking back

In the winter of (2017/2018), mortality was increased for 15 weeks (weeks 51 2017 to 14 2018). The increased mortality rate coincided with the flu epidemic that occurred from week 50 2017 through week 15 2018. The mortality rate during the 18-week flu epidemic was estimated at 9,444

https://www.rivm.nl/monit...-nederland


Fact 4
Current death count in NL due to Covid-19 = 6.105 (sorry, I made a mistake, I thought we had passed the 7.000-mark)


https://www.arcgis.com/ap...4029bf6251


So what I am saying isn't true? flipped off

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #192 posted 06/29/20 12:47am

TweetyV6

avatar

IanRG said:

TweetyV6 said:

Yes there has to be.

If the IFR, Infection Fatality Rate = x then with an increase of of infections, the deaths MUST rise with a factor x.

If that not happens, your method of measurment was/is flawed.
No discussion possible.


No, a spike in infections does not mean that there MUST be a spike in deaths.

.

You are demonstrating a lack of knowledge on statistics, logic and how viruses work. Firstly, the deaths follow 2 or more weeks behind. The rate of deaths depends on many different factors - age of the person - this is lowering. Knowledge of the health system in what to look for and prevent deaths in those with Covid19 - this is increasing so they know to look for. Changes in the virus over time - there is increasing evidence that the virus may be reducing in strength, a common process for viruses as generally the more deadly they are, the less they able to spread from live victims.

.

You car analogy is incomplete and seriously flawed - anthropomorphic climate change denier flawed. To complete the analogy so it represents the facts: If you change how vehicles can handle the accidents, you can have more accidents but less deaths. If you improve the health system knowledge, access and processes to treate accident victims so they die less regularly, you can have more accidents but less deaths.

.

That you edit this out instaed of addressing this is because you cannot understand this. Your understanding is flawed in several ways. No surprise here.


It's deliberately trying to confuse the discussion. Excess baggae that doesn't ad any value to the discussion.

If IFR is x and infections rise then deaths should be: increased infections multiplied by x
IF THAT NOT HAPPENS YOUR WAY OF MEASURING IS SERIOUSLY FLAWED.

But hey, maybe if a well know statistician explains it to you...

Sweden also sees a significant increase in infections but a steady decrease of Covid-19 deaths:





The spike is caused by more testing.

https://www.nicholaslewis.org/the-progress-of-the-covid-19-epidemic-in-sweden-an-analysis/?fbclid=IwAR2sdo_nxAk6bBtEXYG1vzSmjrPlO6uNofOLTCrOI7I_C0Tyo9eaMH-BG5k

All or most of that increase appears to have been be due to a decision on 5 June to expand testing

He also elaborates on other factors, which might be interresting to you.
But the large majority of the increase is due to the incresed testing intensity.

(It also means that the IFR will get less and less which means that the virus is by far not as lethal as initially thought!!!)

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #193 posted 06/29/20 2:34am

IanRG

TweetyV6 said:

IanRG said:


It's deliberately trying to confuse the discussion. Excess baggae that doesn't ad any value to the discussion.

If IFR is x and infections rise then deaths should be: increased infections multiplied by x
IF THAT NOT HAPPENS YOUR WAY OF MEASURING IS SERIOUSLY FLAWED.

But hey, maybe if a well know statistician explains it to you...

Sweden also sees a significant increase in infections but a steady decrease of Covid-19 deaths:


Eastq_xXQAQey6P.jpg


The spike is caused by more testing.

https://www.nicholaslewis.org/the-progress-of-the-covid-19-epidemic-in-sweden-an-analysis/?fbclid=IwAR2sdo_nxAk6bBtEXYG1vzSmjrPlO6uNofOLTCrOI7I_C0Tyo9eaMH-BG5k

All or most of that increase appears to have been be due to a decision on 5 June to expand testing

He also elaborates on other factors, which might be interresting to you.
But the large majority of the increase is due to the incresed testing intensity.

(It also means that the IFR will get less and less which means that the virus is by far not as lethal as initially thought!!!)

.

You argument is wrong and you trying to hide this by bringing up new arguments. Everytime you do this, you fail.

.

The reason that the rate of death is falling is not limited to just what you want to believe, even Nicholas Lewis agrees with this. He agress that is affected by the differing age patterns of those infected but he downplays this. It is affected by the people treating infected people knowing more about how infected people die from being infected with the virus and how to treat that. This is especially impactful in the Swedish circumstance because those over 80 were denied ICU treatment - From Lewis's paper "an apparent Swedish policy of not generally putting people aged 80+ into intensive care". As more people of lower age caught this and where treated properly with new knowledege from other countries, the better treatment is a substantial reason for the lower deaths. Of course Lewis misses this. He also has missed that there is increasing evidence that the virus is becoming less deadly (after an initial increase) due to natural mutations favouring viruses that are not as good at killing so they can be passed on to more.

.

Until you learn to discern between well used statistics and statistics to find the answer the author wants to see, you need to stop reading articles by people like Nicholas Lewis. He is an anthropomorphic climate change denier who works independently and only gets around one paper a year accepted and these are about why everyone else is wrong. His figures support what I said but his interpretation reflects nothing more than his predetermined opinion. An example of this is how he "normalises" numbers.

[Edited 6/29/20 3:48am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #194 posted 06/29/20 6:16am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

TweetyV6 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


Fact 1
Ischgl was a Corona hotspot, one of the first in Europe, the only one with very big impact as it is a very popular wintersport town. Infections were traced back to visitors from New Zealand.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/ischgl-oesterreichisches-skiparadies-als-corona-hotspot/

Fact 2
42.4% of the people of Ischgl have been tested positive; 85% of those did not have symptoms or very mild symptoms of which people did not think they were due to Corona

https://science.apa.at/rubrik/medizin_und_biotech/Coronavirus_-_Bei_Antikoerperstudie_in_Ischgl_42_4_Prozent_positiv/SCI_20200625_SCI39371351255217216?fbclid=IwAR39691VBx30753Af21BAvYD_wN9I5I3hYUtpab0fIV-WM__58p1shYMH5k

Fact 3
Flu pandemic in 2017/2018 caused about 9.444 deaths in the Netherlands

Terugblik

In de winter van (2017/2018) was de sterfte 15 weken lang verhoogd (week 51 2017 t/m 14 2018). De verhoogde sterfte viel samen met de griepepidemie die plaatsvond van week 50 2017 tot en met week 15 2018. De oversterfte tijdens de 18 weken griepepidemie werd geschat op 9.444

Looking back

In the winter of (2017/2018), mortality was increased for 15 weeks (weeks 51 2017 to 14 2018). The increased mortality rate coincided with the flu epidemic that occurred from week 50 2017 through week 15 2018. The mortality rate during the 18-week flu epidemic was estimated at 9,444

https://www.rivm.nl/monit...-nederland


Fact 4
Current death count in NL due to Covid-19 = 6.105 (sorry, I made a mistake, I thought we had passed the 7.000-mark)


https://www.arcgis.com/ap...4029bf6251


So what I am saying isn't true? flipped off



That's right - your Terugblik statistics do not apply. flipped off even the way you post here is incorrect rolleyes

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #195 posted 06/29/20 6:16am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

DiminutiveRocker said:

TweetyV6 said:



You're right - my Terugblik statistics do not apply. smile even the way I post here is incorrect err

This is how it's done. flipped off












[Edited 6/29/20 6:18am]

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #196 posted 06/29/20 7:07am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

500,000 deaths worldwide from Covid-19. !26,000 deaths in the US. 1 out of every 8 peoople who dies from the virus is a US citizen.


Bars are closing in FL TX and CA - because people are still not getting it.



Stay home, and when you go out social distance and wear a mask. Seems such a small inconvenience to curb an extremely contagious virus that can kill.

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #197 posted 06/29/20 7:19am

maplenpg

DiminutiveRocker said:

500,000 deaths worldwide from Covid-19. !26,000 deaths in the US. 1 out of every 8 peoople who dies from the virus is a US citizen.


Bars are closing in FL TX and CA - because people are still not getting it.



Stay home, and when you go out social distance and wear a mask. Seems such a small inconvenience to curb an extremely contagious virus that can kill.

It's scary stuff. Just under 44,000 dead here in the UK which means that the US and UK collectively have over 30% of the total reported deaths in the whole world.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #198 posted 06/29/20 7:23am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

maplenpg said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

500,000 deaths worldwide from Covid-19. !26,000 deaths in the US. 1 out of every 8 peoople who dies from the virus is a US citizen.


Bars are closing in FL TX and CA - because people are still not getting it.



Stay home, and when you go out social distance and wear a mask. Seems such a small inconvenience to curb an extremely contagious virus that can kill.

It's scary stuff. Just under 44,000 dead here in the UK which means that the US and UK collectively have over 30% of the total reported deaths in the whole world.


Right? That is alarming.



Is the curve flattening in the UK?

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #199 posted 06/29/20 7:40am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

maplenpg said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

500,000 deaths worldwide from Covid-19. !26,000 deaths in the US. 1 out of every 8 peoople who dies from the virus is a US citizen.


Bars are closing in FL TX and CA - because people are still not getting it.



Stay home, and when you go out social distance and wear a mask. Seems such a small inconvenience to curb an extremely contagious virus that can kill.

It's scary stuff. Just under 44,000 dead here in the UK which means that the US and UK collectively have over 30% of the total reported deaths in the whole world.

only if those numbers are accurate...

No Matter How ANYONE tries to justify it our rights, freedoms, and Liberties are being restricted in the name of COVID-19.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #200 posted 06/29/20 7:44am

cborgman

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

It's scary stuff. Just under 44,000 dead here in the UK which means that the US and UK collectively have over 30% of the total reported deaths in the whole world.

only if those numbers are accurate...

those numbers are likely inaccurate, and too low. chances are really good the numbers in america are smaller than the reality.

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #201 posted 06/29/20 8:00am

maplenpg

TweetyV6 said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


No one has said there is a spike in deaths - there is a spike in infections and the more people who have it will spread it and the chances of the most vulnerable getting it increases. More infections mean more people in hospitals and that means the more taxing it is on the healthcare system. See, unlike the Netherlands, we care about our senior citizens, we care about the healthcare workers and we care about ALL the people who get the virus. It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen, and they are just beginning to see that it could have long term effects on those who survived it.

so again stfu with your condescending and often incorrect OPINION.

I can't help you're ill informed.

Look at the results from the university of Insbruck. They researched the Ischgl outbreak, which is considered the 'ground zero' of European infections.
42.4% of the people in Ischgl have found to be infected.
85% of these people indicate they haven't had any symptoms or symptoms that mild that they thought it was a simple cold.

85% of the infected people... let that figure sink in.

These people weren't tested because they were not elligible to get tested (since they had no symptoms) So would these people have been tested at the time the outbreak was on its high in Ischgl, these people would have been tested positive, giving a major boost in infections, but at the same time minimizing the fatality rate.

So to say 'It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen' is beyond ridiculous.
In may countries it has been less lethal then the flu pandemic 2017/2018.
Excess mortality figures provide proof for that. E.g. in the Netherlands the flu 2017/2018 killed about 9.500 people, SARS-CoV-2 killed about 7.000 so far.

Reality sucks, doesn't it.

Also, if you look at excess mortality rateds in different countries, you'll notice that they are back to normal. Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

Dimi isn't ill-informed. You're the one taking one study and using it to 'prove' that we shouldn't b concerned with rising cases. You're the one saying that because the death rate isn't correlating the same as before, that there isn't a probem.

So this UOI study, a study which consists of a whole 479 households (1,259 adults, 214 children), found that around 530 adults and 340 children had antibodies. There is no data as to how many households that number is, i.e. if 4 people in one household have antibodies etc...).

But to quote from the study:

"With regard to the detection of antibodies, however, the study is not representative of the entire Austrian population."


"In no other study did such a high percentage of study participants have antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 in the blood. In Val Gardena, for example, the percentage was 27 percent, in a study in Geneva around 10 percent."


(or in other words, you shouldn't use these figures to be representitive of anywhere except Ischgl).


Also:

"The question of immunity and how long carriers of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies are protected from infection has not been resolved with this study"

It has still not been proven that having the antibodies gives you immunity, and if it does, for how long.

So...The study is not representitive of a worldwide pattern, and it hasn't really proved anything apart from the fact that there are a lot of people walking round, spreading the virus, who are asympomatic, which I think requires more testing. If more testing gets those testing positive for Covid off the streets early, then numbers of deaths should come down as the spread is reduced.

Frankly, I'm glad that people are worried by a rise in postive cases, we don't need more death to tell us that the virus is deadly - 500,000 is a large enough figure thanks. Fewer deaths is a good thing and I hope it means that those testing positive are quarantining, and that we understand the virus better. But we should not start saying the figures are simply down to mass testing and that therefore we should shrug our shoulders. Houston is already struggling with their ICU capacity (link) so, even if they survive, people are very, very ill indeed, often for long periods of time. Do not trivialise it by comparing it to flu. There was, AFAIAA, no lockdowns for the Netherlands flu, so the figures are not comparable, and many, many studies will show you the difference between covid and the flu. Speak to my best friend, who is exhausted from working in the hospital the past few months with covid patients. She will tell you exactly how deadly it is, and how many are now losing their lives from post-covid complications, and who are not having covid put on the death certificate. She'd take people with the flu any day of the week over her reality, trust me.


  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #202 posted 06/29/20 8:02am

maplenpg

cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

only if those numbers are accurate...

those numbers are likely inaccurate, and too low. chances are really good the numbers in america are smaller than the reality.

THIS....excess deaths in the UK are over 64,000 (reported deaths 44,000).

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #203 posted 06/29/20 8:04am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

maplenpg said:

cborgman said:

those numbers are likely inaccurate, and too low. chances are really good the numbers in america are smaller than the reality.

THIS....excess deaths in the UK are over 64,000 (reported deaths 44,000).

do you belive that death numbers are higher in the US and UK but most other nation's number are accurate?

No Matter How ANYONE tries to justify it our rights, freedoms, and Liberties are being restricted in the name of COVID-19.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #204 posted 06/29/20 8:07am

maplenpg

DiminutiveRocker said:

maplenpg said:

It's scary stuff. Just under 44,000 dead here in the UK which means that the US and UK collectively have over 30% of the total reported deaths in the whole world.


Right? That is alarming.



Is the curve flattening in the UK?

The UK is broken. Ireland, Wales and Scotland have gone for stricter lockdowns and a suppression tactic - their figures are good. England still has around 1000 new cases a day and is opening up very quickly, many say too quickly. BJ won't say what his long term plan is, but it's clearly not suppression. Trump and BJ are very much the same.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #205 posted 06/29/20 8:10am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

only if those numbers are accurate...

those numbers are likely inaccurate, and too low. chances are really good the numbers in america are smaller than the reality.


You mean smaller than reported, or the reported # is smaller than the reality?

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #206 posted 06/29/20 8:11am

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

THIS....excess deaths in the UK are over 64,000 (reported deaths 44,000).

do you belive that death numbers are higher in the US and UK but most other nation's number are accurate?

Nope, that's why I used the phrase "the US and UK collectively have over 30% of the total reported deaths in the whole world.". I don't honestly care if other countries are, or aren't accurate; these are the figures we've got and that's what they tell us.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #207 posted 06/29/20 8:12am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

maplenpg said:

TweetyV6 said:

I can't help you're ill informed.

Look at the results from the university of Insbruck. They researched the Ischgl outbreak, which is considered the 'ground zero' of European infections.
42.4% of the people in Ischgl have found to be infected.
85% of these people indicate they haven't had any symptoms or symptoms that mild that they thought it was a simple cold.

85% of the infected people... let that figure sink in.

These people weren't tested because they were not elligible to get tested (since they had no symptoms) So would these people have been tested at the time the outbreak was on its high in Ischgl, these people would have been tested positive, giving a major boost in infections, but at the same time minimizing the fatality rate.

So to say 'It is an awful, debilitating virus - it is a deadly pathogen' is beyond ridiculous.
In may countries it has been less lethal then the flu pandemic 2017/2018.
Excess mortality figures provide proof for that. E.g. in the Netherlands the flu 2017/2018 killed about 9.500 people, SARS-CoV-2 killed about 7.000 so far.

Reality sucks, doesn't it.

Also, if you look at excess mortality rateds in different countries, you'll notice that they are back to normal. Even in the US. The pandemic is over. Data provide the proof.

Dimi isn't ill-informed. You're the one taking one study and using it to 'prove' that we shouldn't b concerned with rising cases. You're the one saying that because the death rate isn't correlating the same as before, that there isn't a probem.

So this UOI study, a study which consists of a whole 479 households (1,259 adults, 214 children), found that around 530 adults and 340 children had antibodies. There is no data as to how many households that number is, i.e. if 4 people in one household have antibodies etc...).

But to quote from the study:

"With regard to the detection of antibodies, however, the study is not representative of the entire Austrian population."


"In no other study did such a high percentage of study participants have antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 in the blood. In Val Gardena, for example, the percentage was 27 percent, in a study in Geneva around 10 percent."


(or in other words, you shouldn't use these figures to be representitive of anywhere except Ischgl).


Also:

"The question of immunity and how long carriers of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies are protected from infection has not been resolved with this study"

It has still not been proven that having the antibodies gives you immunity, and if it does, for how long.

So...The study is not representitive of a worldwide pattern, and it hasn't really proved anything apart from the fact that there are a lot of people walking round, spreading the virus, who are asympomatic, which I think requires more testing. If more testing gets those testing positive for Covid off the streets early, then numbers of deaths should come down as the spread is reduced.

Frankly, I'm glad that people are worried by a rise in postive cases, we don't need more death to tell us that the virus is deadly - 500,000 is a large enough figure thanks. Fewer deaths is a good thing and I hope it means that those testing positive are quarantining, and that we understand the virus better. But we should not start saying the figures are simply down to mass testing and that therefore we should shrug our shoulders. Houston is already struggling with their ICU capacity (link) so, even if they survive, people are very, very ill indeed, often for long periods of time. Do not trivialise it by comparing it to flu. There was, AFAIAA, no lockdowns for the Netherlands flu, so the figures are not comparable, and many, many studies will show you the difference between covid and the flu. Speak to my best friend, who is exhausted from working in the hospital the past few months with covid patients. She will tell you exactly how deadly it is, and how many are now losing their lives from post-covid complications, and who are not having covid put on the death certificate. She'd take people with the flu any day of the week over her reality, trust me.


yeahthat

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #208 posted 06/29/20 8:31am

cborgman

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

THIS....excess deaths in the UK are over 64,000 (reported deaths 44,000).

do you belive that death numbers are higher in the US and UK but most other nation's number are accurate?

i dont know of the accuracy of other countries, but i guarantee the numbers reported in the US and likely he UK as well are much lower than the reality.

just the other day trump stopped funding testing in states that are going to see huge spikes, and his entire plan is to undercut the numbers any way he can to cover up the disaterous levels of how bad is getting and will continue to get.

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #209 posted 06/29/20 8:33am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

do you belive that death numbers are higher in the US and UK but most other nation's number are accurate?

i dont know of the accuracy of other countries, but i guarantee the numbers reported in the US and likely he UK as well are much lower than the reality.

just the other day trump stopped funding testing in states that are going to see huge spikes, and his entire plan is to undercut the numbers any way he can to cover up the disaterous levels of how bad is getting and will continue to get.

neutral right. But he cannot control the death count - just the positivce case count that is reported by the testing, right?

VOTE....EARLY
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 7 of 18 « First<34567891011>Last »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Politics & Religion > Covid-19: Daily US Count + related issues