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Reply #240 posted 06/15/20 6:56am

2elijah

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v10letblues said:



2elijah said:


v10letblues said:

The Defund the police nonsense is something half baked. Sad to hear that Biden was on board.


I am fully on board to deep changes to policing which have been pointed out for ages. But those who ignorantly propose defunding the police without a plan of what to do next is the epitome of stupidity.


.


A lot of these officers, most of which are good, would likely just walk away from the job and say good riddance. It's a dangerous and fucked up job anyhow.


Just as with those trying to dismatle Obamacare and start from scratch in creating something BRAND NEW, good luck getting that done in your lifetime. Some things are easier said than done.


There is something to be said with evoluton and itteration.



I don’t think he’s against police reform. Many are taking ‘Defund the Police’ and running with that comment, and taking it as get rid of the police. To me it means, restructure pice departments and reallocate the funds to other agencies/organizations, that could deal with mental health, drug issues, homelessness, and other issues where it’s not the responsibility of police to handle. On top of, better training, multicultural education, more extensive psychological testing, etc.



I know how some have asuaged it to mean. And I get it. But the premise and the wording is unfortunate. It sounds like something concocted and named with specific intent on making demcrats and black lives matter look stupid.


We need not "run with something" just becasue it presented to us. We need to think critically, think for outrselves and examine how idiotic this message is.


It remids me of so-called progressives like "The Hill" or TYT" who in many ways seem like they are trying to hurt the democratic party in guise.


The democratic leadership itself finally had to tell top democrats not to forward the unfortunate term.

[Edited 6/15/20 5:46am]


Well, it’s been more than a week, since that statement came out, and no I don’t think it makes the Democratic Party look stupid or Black Lives Matter. Let’s look at the progress made so far, due to the pressure from the protests, and because of Black Lives Matter support from protesters.

Action speaks louder than words. We already see the changes/action being taken against many police departments because of police brutality protests, which has led to at least one state demanding police reform or lose state funding and being forced to re-organize/work on better hiring requirements/training of police candidates in others. Not to mention Breonna’s law being passed, and another state Dismantling their police force. This is just the beginning. Moving some funding out of police depts and re-examining where it should go instead, to take some of the responsibility off of police, and delegate it towards other social programs that deals with the public. Police officers are not social workers/mental health/drug counselors, etc.
[Edited 6/15/20 6:57am]
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Reply #241 posted 06/15/20 6:58am

cborgman

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DiminutiveRocker said:

cborgman said:

have you seen the full footage? he talked to them calmly and peacefully for 30 minutes, and they just keep haranging him.


Admittedly I didn't. Is it captured on police body-cam footage? Can you hear them sepaking?
I saw the log shot of them chasing him and shooting him - Oh, and there was a long line of cars at the drive thru - WTF were they thinking shooting in that environment!?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/w...hdpG2XzRXQ

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Reply #242 posted 06/15/20 6:59am

2elijah

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DiminutiveRocker said:



poppys said:




cborgman said:


another one last night...



(CNN) An Atlanta police officer shot and killed a man at a Wendy's drive-thru Friday night after he resisted arrest and struggled for an officer's Taser, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said in a statement. The GBI identified the slain man as Rayshard Brooks, 27, of Atlanta, who was African American. Friday, officers responded to a call at 10:33 p.m. about a man sleeping in a parked vehicle in the drive-thru, causing other customers to drive around it, the GBI said in a statement.





Police gave Brooks a field sobriety test, which he failed, the GBI said. He resisted arrest and struggled with officers, the GBI said. An officer drew his Taser and, witnesses said, the man grabbed it, the statement said. An officer then shot him. Brooks was taken to a hospital, where he died, the statement said. CNN affiliate WSB reports this is the 48th police shooting the GBI has investigated in 2020.




Medical examiner rules Rayshard Brooks’ death a homicide from two gunshot wounds in the back

Rayshard Brooks, the 27-year-old man from Atlanta whose fatal encounter with police officers has fueled ongoing protests against racism and police brutality, was killed by two gunshot wounds to the back, the Fulton County Medical Examiner ruled on Sunday. His manner of death is considered to be a homicide, CBS in Atlanta reports.

Since the shooting, protests in the Atlanta area have continued with increased intensity, and the city’s Chief of Police has resigned. Officer Rolfe has been fired, a police spokesperson said on Sunday, while the other officer on the scene has been placed on administrative leave.




disbelief When did the lines blur between apprehend and kill? They'd been talking to him, he was drunk. He managed to wrestle out from under them and then he ran - so you chase him, not kill him!
Jesus Christ.



Exactly. I heard there was a situation where a White man took 2 tasers from police, and he was not shot/killed. This is the difference between how some cops value certain lives.
[Edited 6/15/20 7:24am]
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Reply #243 posted 06/15/20 7:10am

DiminutiveRock
er

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2elijah said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


disbelief When did the lines blur between apprehend and kill? They'd been talking to him, he was drunk. He managed to wrestle out from under them and then he ran - so you chase him, not kill him!
Jesus Christ.

Exay. I heard there was a situation where a White man took 2 tasers from police, and he was not shot/killed. This is the difference between how some cops value certain lives.


Huge difference. disbelief

Thousands of people daily protesting this very thing and it continues before our very eyes! This serves to justify the outrage and the protest.

“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.”
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Reply #244 posted 06/15/20 7:26am

2elijah

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cborgman said:



DiminutiveRocker said:




poppys said:




Medical examiner rules Rayshard Brooks’ death a homicide from two gunshot wounds in the back

Rayshard Brooks, the 27-year-old man from Atlanta whose fatal encounter with police officers has fueled ongoing protests against racism and police brutality, was killed by two gunshot wounds to the back, the Fulton County Medical Examiner ruled on Sunday. His manner of death is considered to be a homicide, CBS in Atlanta reports.

Since the shooting, protests in the Atlanta area have continued with increased intensity, and the city’s Chief of Police has resigned. Officer Rolfe has been fired, a police spokesperson said on Sunday, while the other officer on the scene has been placed on administrative leave.




disbelief When did the lines blur between apprehend and kill? They'd been talking to him, he was drunk. He managed to wrestle out from under them and then he ran - so you chase him, not kill him!
Jesus Christ.



have you seen the full footage? he talked to them calmly and peacefully for 30 minutes, and they just keep haranging him.



I can’t look at that vid. The little I’ve seen is just too much.
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Reply #245 posted 06/15/20 7:28am

DiminutiveRock
er

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cborgman said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


Admittedly I didn't. Is it captured on police body-cam footage? Can you hear them sepaking?
I saw the log shot of them chasing him and shooting him - Oh, and there was a long line of cars at the drive thru - WTF were they thinking shooting in that environment!?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/w...hdpG2XzRXQ


The sobriety tests seem to be executed correctly - he was obviously drunk, but unarmed with a lethal weapon. That he ran wasn't so unsual, he was drunk and not thinking straight.




WHY DID THEY SHOOT HIM?!?!?!? WHY DID THEY KILL HIM?!?!?!? sad



Updated for clarity.





[Edited 6/15/20 7:57am]

“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.”
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Reply #246 posted 06/15/20 7:46am

OnlyNDaUsa

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I have seen several videos:

he was apprently asleep in his car... he was apparently chemically impaired he was apparently in control of his car (to be in control you need to have part of your body in the driver's seat and the keys have to be in the ignition or the fob has to be in range to start the car). He was tested and apparently failed and was placed under arrest...

then the man fought the police he TOOK a cops taser (a dangerous weapon) as he was running he TURNED and pointed a weapon at someone and that is when he was shot.

He was not unarmed, he fought off 2 men and took a weapon and attempted to use it (he seems to have fired it) on someone.

Is anything about that wrong?

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Reply #247 posted 06/15/20 7:58am

OnlyNDaUsa

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cborgman said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


disbelief When did the lines blur between apprehend and kill? They'd been talking to him, he was drunk. He managed to wrestle out from under them and then he ran - so you chase him, not kill him!
Jesus Christ.

have you seen the full footage? he talked to them calmly and peacefully for 30 minutes, and they just keep haranging him.

he was passed out under the influence of something while in control of a motor vehicle... he was placed under arrest (unless you are opposed to making arrests for DWI) for a valid reason and he chose to FIGHT 2 cops and he took by force a weapon and then used it on someone... I am still not sure shooting was justified--it is sure as hell not clear that it wasn't.


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Reply #248 posted 06/15/20 8:00am

cborgman

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

cborgman said:

have you seen the full footage? he talked to them calmly and peacefully for 30 minutes, and they just keep haranging him.

he was passed out under the influence of something while in control of a motor vehicle... he was placed under arrest (unless you are opposed to making arrests for DWI) for a valid reason and he chose to FIGHT 2 cops and he took by force a weapon and then used it on someone... I am still not sure shooting was justified--it is sure as hell not clear that it wasn't.


oh please. yesterday you were proactively justifying the murdering of anyone who steals a confederate flag.

you value a cheap racist piece of cloth over human life. and every time a black person or heather hayer is killed you find ways to justify their murders.

dont pretend you give a shit about the murder victim. no one is buying it.


.

[Edited 6/15/20 8:32am]

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #249 posted 06/15/20 8:09am

poppys

2elijah said:

cborgman said:

have you seen the full footage? he talked to them calmly and peacefully for 30 minutes, and they just keep haranging him.


I can’t look at that vid. The little I’ve seen is just too much.

hug Thank you for being here 2e.

They need to charge Rolfe with murder ASAP.

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Reply #250 posted 06/15/20 10:34am

2elijah

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poppys said:



2elijah said:


cborgman said:


have you seen the full footage? he talked to them calmly and peacefully for 30 minutes, and they just keep haranging him.




I can’t look at that vid. The little I’ve seen is just too much.


hug Thank you for being here 2e.

They need to charge Rolfe with murder ASAP.


Thank you...Right back atcha!!! hug
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Reply #251 posted 06/15/20 10:39am

maplenpg

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have seen several videos:

he was apprently asleep in his car... he was apparently chemically impaired he was apparently in control of his car (to be in control you need to have part of your body in the driver's seat and the keys have to be in the ignition or the fob has to be in range to start the car). He was tested and apparently failed and was placed under arrest...

then the man fought the police he TOOK a cops taser (a dangerous weapon) as he was running he TURNED and pointed a weapon at someone and that is when he was shot.

He was not unarmed, he fought off 2 men and took a weapon and attempted to use it (he seems to have fired it) on someone.

Is anything about that wrong?

Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And it's been deemed a homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.

[Edited 6/15/20 10:52am]

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Reply #252 posted 06/15/20 10:51am

cborgman

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maplenpg said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have seen several videos:

he was apprently asleep in his car... he was apparently chemically impaired he was apparently in control of his car (to be in control you need to have part of your body in the driver's seat and the keys have to be in the ignition or the fob has to be in range to start the car). He was tested and apparently failed and was placed under arrest...

then the man fought the police he TOOK a cops taser (a dangerous weapon) as he was running he TURNED and pointed a weapon at someone and that is when he was shot.

He was not unarmed, he fought off 2 men and took a weapon and attempted to use it (he seems to have fired it) on someone.

Is anything about that wrong?

Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And he's been charged with homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.

[Edited 6/15/20 10:41am]

if someone with a taser requires killing them to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 11:14am]

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #253 posted 06/15/20 10:56am

maplenpg

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cborgman said:

maplenpg said:

Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And he's been charged with homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.

[Edited 6/15/20 10:41am]

if someone with a taser require killing to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

Yep. Most cops in the UK do not carry tasers, though numbers are rising - there are different ways.

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Reply #254 posted 06/15/20 11:35am

DiminutiveRock
er

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maplenpg said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have seen several videos:

he was apprently asleep in his car... he was apparently chemically impaired he was apparently in control of his car (to be in control you need to have part of your body in the driver's seat and the keys have to be in the ignition or the fob has to be in range to start the car). He was tested and apparently failed and was placed under arrest...

then the man fought the police he TOOK a cops taser (a dangerous weapon) as he was running he TURNED and pointed a weapon at someone and that is when he was shot.

He was not unarmed, he fought off 2 men and took a weapon and attempted to use it (he seems to have fired it) on someone.

Is anything about that wrong?

Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And it's been deemed a homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.

[Edited 6/15/20 10:52am]

nod Tasers are not lethal weapons and do not require deadly force. Freaking run after the guy or chase him in the car - he is drunk, he is going to either fall or run out of steam.


“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.”
-George Orwell, 1984
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Reply #255 posted 06/15/20 11:35am

OnlyNDaUsa

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cborgman said:

maplenpg said:

Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And he's been charged with homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.

[Edited 6/15/20 10:41am]

if someone with a taser requires killing them to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 11:14am]



fallacy: same would go for guns or patrol cars... and it was not just that he had it...but he USED it. And give it some thought: you have gun and someone has a taser... they shoot you with the taser... do you not see the danger? play the jeopardy music as your life is in jeopardy...


Now if a man takes a cops gun and is using it is that not a reason to use deadly force to stop him?


or a car and is trying to run someone over? is that not a reason to use deadly force to stop him? (yes shooting him could cause him to push the gas and now the care is accelerating positively and out of control)

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Reply #256 posted 06/15/20 11:43am

OnlyNDaUsa

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DiminutiveRocker said:

maplenpg said:

Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And it's been deemed a homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.

[Edited 6/15/20 10:52am]

nod Tasers are not lethal weapons and do not require deadly force. Freaking run after the guy or chase him in the car - he is drunk, he is going to either fall or run out of steam.


but one could be used to obtain a deadly weapon and he did fire it at somepne with a gun... it is odd how he was armed and he did fire it at someone from whom he could get a deadly weapon ...after being tased and after fighting off two other men... and it is still not enough to even consider that it was a justified shooting.

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Reply #257 posted 06/15/20 11:44am

poppys

Now tasers are the murder minutiae, it NEVER ends.

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Reply #258 posted 06/15/20 11:46am

2elijah

avatar

cborgman said:



maplenpg said:




OnlyNDaUsa said:


I have seen several videos:

he was apprently asleep in his car... he was apparently chemically impaired he was apparently in control of his car (to be in control you need to have part of your body in the driver's seat and the keys have to be in the ignition or the fob has to be in range to start the car). He was tested and apparently failed and was placed under arrest...

then the man fought the police he TOOK a cops taser (a dangerous weapon) as he was running he TURNED and pointed a weapon at someone and that is when he was shot.

He was not unarmed, he fought off 2 men and took a weapon and attempted to use it (he seems to have fired it) on someone.




Is anything about that wrong?



Yes - everything about it is wrong. A taser will not kill you. It would hurt if he shot it in the nuts of someone, but it wouldn't kill them. They had no reason to use deadly force. He was shot in the back for goodness sake, how could he have been a threat if he was shot in the back?

You don't need to kill people. There are many countries in the world where the police don't even have guns - there's a better way.

And he's been charged with homicide. One day some of these cops might just get found guilty - the tide is turning.


[Edited 6/15/20 10:41am]



if someone with a taser requires killing them to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 11:14am]


The cop let his ego make the decision for him. This is what a former cop said. She said cops get teased by fellow officers when someone they stopped take their gear or run away. She also said that the cop was probably thinking about how would be reprimanded for it.

She said ego is often the culture among many officers. They already had his car and his license plate, so they would have caught up with him even if he ran away. She said the cop had plenty of options, that did not require shooting him, especially since he ran. So if anyone thinks that cop should have shot/killed Rayshard, then they should never be allowed to be a cop, because it’s clear they are also capable of making the same wrong decision as an officer.

This is why better training in de-escalation is needed, to prevent tragic incidents like this. Also get rid of cops not capable of separating ego/bias from professional decision-making. I’m not surprised you will find some who will find any excuse to justify that killing based on their own personal biases.
[Edited 6/15/20 11:49am]
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Reply #259 posted 06/15/20 11:48am

DiminutiveRock
er

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:

if someone with a taser requires killing them to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 11:14am]

The cop let his ego make the decision for him. This is what a former cop said. She said cops get teased by fellow officers when someone they stopped take their gear or run away. She also said that the cop was probably thinking about his he would be reprimanded for it. They already had his car and his license plate, so they would have caught up with him even if he ran away. She said he had plenty of options that did not require shooting him, especially since he ran. So if anyone thinks that cop should have shot/killed Rayshard, then they should never be allowed to be a cop, because it’s clear they are also capable of making the wrong decision. This is why better training in de-escalation is needed, to prevent/and get rid of cops not capable of separating ego/bias from professional decision-making. I’m not surprised you will find some who will find any excuse to justify that killing based on their personal biases.



nod

“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.”
-George Orwell, 1984
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Reply #260 posted 06/15/20 12:05pm

cborgman

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

you have gun and someone has a taser... they shoot you with the taser... do you not see the danger? play the jeopardy music as your life is in jeopardy...

youre right. we should shoot to kill cops who are tasering people. they put peoples lives in jeopardy with them.

your overuse of the word fallacy never ceases to be hilarious. you love to yell it but are completely blind to the rich wealth of fallacies you argue.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 12:17pm]

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #261 posted 06/15/20 12:09pm

cborgman

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

it was a justified shooting.

you know your opinion might matter in the slightest if:


-every single case in the history of cops killing people didnt include you declaring it justified and victim-blaming.


-you werent so bloodthirsty to see people killed that you declared murder is justified if someone takes a $12 confederate flag


-you didnt constantly lie to justify murders by non-cops like heather hayers killer and GM.

-you didnt flip-flop from 'ignore the bad apple cops' to "we cant ignore the bad apple" protesters.


you do realize thats why none of us take you the least bit serious in this, right? youre a broken record that just keeps repeating "victims vault" and "justified" no matter what.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 12:16pm]

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #262 posted 06/15/20 12:09pm

cborgman

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:

if someone with a taser requires killing them to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 11:14am]

The cop let his ego make the decision for him. This is what a former cop said. She said cops get teased by fellow officers when someone they stopped take their gear or run away. She also said that the cop was probably thinking about how would be reprimanded for it. She said ego is often the culture among many officers. They already had his car and his license plate, so they would have caught up with him even if he ran away. She said the cop had plenty of options, that did not require shooting him, especially since he ran. So if anyone thinks that cop should have shot/killed Rayshard, then they should never be allowed to be a cop, because it’s clear they are also capable of making the same wrong decision as an officer. This is why better training in de-escalation is needed, to prevent tragic incidents like this. Also get rid of cops not capable of separating ego/bias from professional decision-making. I’m not surprised you will find some who will find any excuse to justify that killing based on their own personal biases. [Edited 6/15/20 11:49am]

this.

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #263 posted 06/15/20 12:15pm

poppys

cborgman said:

2elijah said:

cborgman said: The cop let his ego make the decision for him. This is what a former cop said. She said cops get teased by fellow officers when someone they stopped take their gear or run away. She also said that the cop was probably thinking about how would be reprimanded for it. She said ego is often the culture among many officers. They already had his car and his license plate, so they would have caught up with him even if he ran away. She said the cop had plenty of options, that did not require shooting him, especially since he ran.

So if anyone thinks that cop should have shot/killed Rayshard, then they should never be allowed to be a cop, because it’s clear they are also capable of making the same wrong decision as an officer. This is why better training in de-escalation is needed, to prevent tragic incidents like this. Also get rid of cops not capable of separating ego/bias from professional decision-making. I’m not surprised you will find some who will find any excuse to justify that killing based on their own personal biases.

this.

yep.

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Reply #264 posted 06/15/20 12:18pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

it was a justified shooting.

you know your opinion might matter in the slightest if:


-every single case in the history of cops killing people didnt include you declaring it justified and victim-blaming.


-you werent so bloodthirsty to see people killed that you declared murder is justified if someone takes a confederate flag


-you didnt constantly lie to justify murders by non-cops like heather hayers killer and GM.

you do realize thats why none of us take you the least bit serious in this, right?

.

[Edited 6/15/20 12:11pm]

i have actualy said nearly all of the shootings we discussed here as unjustified and crimes... neatly every single one... and i have never victim blamed. what I do is I go through the events that lead up to the killing as they are always relevant...and then in nearly all I have said the shooter or cop or killer was wrong.


Not blood thirsty at all... i just stated a fact that it is legal to use deadly force to precet theft of property.


where did I say anything untrue much less demonstrably a lie about heather?

I get it some people only want the facts that fit their agenda... and who is GM?

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Reply #265 posted 06/15/20 12:19pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:

if someone with a taser requires killing them to stop them, then its time to take tasers away from the cops.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 11:14am]

The cop let his ego make the decision for him. This is what a former cop said. She said cops get teased by fellow officers when someone they stopped take their gear or run away. She also said that the cop was probably thinking about how would be reprimanded for it. She said ego is often the culture among many officers. They already had his car and his license plate, so they would have caught up with him even if he ran away. She said the cop had plenty of options, that did not require shooting him, especially since he ran. So if anyone thinks that cop should have shot/killed Rayshard, then they should never be allowed to be a cop, because it’s clear they are also capable of making the same wrong decision as an officer. This is why better training in de-escalation is needed, to prevent tragic incidents like this. Also get rid of cops not capable of separating ego/bias from professional decision-making. I’m not surprised you will find some who will find any excuse to justify that killing based on their own personal biases. [Edited 6/15/20 11:49am]

weird i mentioned better training in deseculation and i got trolled... and note I am not saying this was justifed... but it is not clearly unjustifed.

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Reply #266 posted 06/15/20 12:21pm

cborgman

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

i have actualy said nearly all of the shootings we discussed here as unjustified and crimes... neatly every single one... and i have never victim blamed. what I do is I go through the events that lead up to the killing as they are always relevant...and then in nearly all I have said the shooter or cop or killer was wrong.


Not blood thirsty at all... i just stated a fact that it is legal to use deadly force to precet theft of property.


where did I say anything untrue much less demonstrably a lie about heather?

I get it some people only want the facts that fit their agenda... and who is GM?

spit falloff

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #267 posted 06/15/20 12:45pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i have actualy said nearly all of the shootings we discussed here as unjustified and crimes... neatly every single one... and i have never victim blamed. what I do is I go through the events that lead up to the killing as they are always relevant...and then in nearly all I have said the shooter or cop or killer was wrong.


Not blood thirsty at all... i just stated a fact that it is legal to use deadly force to precet theft of property.


where did I say anything untrue much less demonstrably a lie about heather?

I get it some people only want the facts that fit their agenda... and who is GM?

spit falloff



I called the killings of: George Floydl, Trayvon Martin, Heather Heyer, Walter Scott, Micheal Brown, Eric Garner, Botham Jean. John Crawford III all crimes... I said the cops were neglant with Freddie Gray... who else?


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Reply #268 posted 06/15/20 12:47pm

cborgman

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

cborgman said:

spit falloff



I called the killings of: George Floydl, Trayvon Martin, Heather Heyer, Walter Scott, Micheal Brown, Eric Garner, Botham Jean. John Crawford III all crimes... I said the cops were neglant with Freddie Gray... who else?


you also lied about trayvon martin saying he attacked GM,
lied about heather hayer saying her killer was antifa and leftist, not there to protest with the other neo-nazis, and she was deliberately obstructing traffic,
called eric garner a dirt bag,
and numerous other examples.

you do it constantly.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 12:50pm]

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
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Reply #269 posted 06/15/20 1:01pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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cborgman said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:



I called the killings of: George Floydl, Trayvon Martin, Heather Heyer, Walter Scott, Micheal Brown, Eric Garner, Botham Jean. John Crawford III all crimes... I said the cops were neglant with Freddie Gray... who else?


you also lied about trayvon martin saying he attacked GM,
lied about heather hayer saying her killer was antifa and leftist, not there to protest with the other neo-nazis, and she was deliberately obstructing traffic,
called eric garner a dirt bag,
and numerous other examples.

you do it constantly.

.

[Edited 6/15/20 12:50pm]

1) the evidence in Zimmerman's trial that was corroborated by their star witness Rachel Jeantel and all the physical evidence supports that Martin turned back to confront Zimmerman... And did I say "Attacked" or did I say confront? Either way...

2) yes I was wrong about Heather's killer...in that he was not Antifa/leftis or a counter protester... that is not the same as being a lie... I stand by my statement that he was not part if that demonstration that he went there on a whim looking for trouble. She was there to counter protest a demonstration and she was in the road and traffic was blocked. But I also her actions were not a defence... and that her killer committed a crime.


3) i did do that and I did retract it and publicly admit it was out of line. And I still said his killing was a crime.

4) no you can't

EDIT who is GM?


and it is odd how in the vast majority of cases you and I and most everyone else here agreed on most important issues...but I happen to take the long path and that is confused with victim blaming? and biggoty? as lying?



let's address 2 more things: For a statment to be a lie it has to be given with some intent to decive... I did not do that in any of these cases... it is NOT a matter of "is it true or not" (a true statment can be a lie)


and 2: think back to the killing of Eric Garner: was the hold (we can assume it was a choke hold) in and of itself illegal? Yes or No...

[Edited 6/15/20 13:06pm]

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