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Thread started 02/10/20 5:24pm

Pokeno4Money

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4-year-old dies after mother refuses to give him flu medication


We need to take P&R back from the usual suspects, so I'm gonna start right now.

There's a sad, sad story about a mom who listened to an anti-vax Facebook group instead of her kid's doctor, and the kid died because of it.

Should the mother be charged with Negligent Homicide? Or a lesser charge like neglect?

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that beautiful child would still be alive today, if not for his mom's ignorance.


https://www.wbtv.com/2020/02/08/year-old-dies-flu-after-members-anti-vax-facebook-group-advise-his-mom-use-thyme-elderberries-instead-tamiflu/


Now, screenshots from an anti-vax Facebook group called "Stop Mandatory Vaccination" are circulating online, and they appear to show that the week before Najee died, his mother sought advice on how to treat her sons' illness. Members of the group advised giving the boys vitamins, botanicals, and fruits and vegetables rather than the Tamiflu that their doctor prescribed.

In the thread, which has now apparently been scrubbed from the group's Facebook page, the mom wrote, "The doc prescribed tamaflu [sic] I did not pick it up." One user advises, "You're better off taking Vitamin D and C, Elderberry, Zinc, and eating lots of fruits and vegetables."

“Ok perfect I’ll try that,” she responds.



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"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #1 posted 02/10/20 5:59pm

PennyPurple

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I think it's something the mother will live with the rest of her life. She is probably heart broken and will never recover.


I don't think she should be charged with anything. There is no law about giving your child Tamiflu.

COME BACK RODEO COME BACK!
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Reply #2 posted 02/10/20 6:47pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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on its face I do not think she should be charged. It seems conservatics and liberals would agree on giving parents the right to not get a flu shot... and treatments are often treating symtoms... the flu sucks. But most people fight it off...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #3 posted 02/10/20 6:58pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Tamiflu is only effective if started right away and then it really only cuts the time by a day or so...

Oh 2 people I have been in close contact with have the flu-B...one was diagnosed 3 days ago one was diagnosed today... I have had a very light coug, slight runny nose, and very minor (so minor I would not have even thought of it unless asked) aches... but no feaver (not even over 98.9).... But I guess I could have it too...They are both on Tamiflu... I do not see any reason to do so... I just hope I make it!

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #4 posted 02/10/20 7:00pm

Pokeno4Money

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Yeah but Tamiflu isn't a flu shot, it's a prescription that TREATS the flu if you have it.

The thing is, why bother going to a doctor if you're not gonna follow the doctor's advice to take a certain medication?

I have no issue with those who are against vaccinations.

But when a child has something that can turn deadly, I just can't imagine refusing to give the child a medication that would likely help them get better.

It's like if my child had a very high fever and the doctor prescribed penicillin, I'd damn well give the child the penicillin. I do think there should be some sort of law in that situation.




"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #5 posted 02/10/20 7:01pm

Pokeno4Money

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

Tamiflu is only effective if started right away and then it really only cuts the time by a day or so...

Oh 2 people I have been in close contact with have the flu-B...one was diagnosed 3 days ago one was diagnosed today... I have had a very light coug, slight runny nose, and very minor (so minor I would not have even thought of it unless asked) aches... but no feaver (not even over 98.9).... But I guess I could have it too...They are both on Tamiflu... I do not see any reason to do so... I just hope I make it!


Keep in mind, young children and the elderly are most vunerable to the flu. I don't think you're either. wink

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #6 posted 02/10/20 7:11pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Pokeno4Money said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Tamiflu is only effective if started right away and then it really only cuts the time by a day or so...

Oh 2 people I have been in close contact with have the flu-B...one was diagnosed 3 days ago one was diagnosed today... I have had a very light coug, slight runny nose, and very minor (so minor I would not have even thought of it unless asked) aches... but no feaver (not even over 98.9).... But I guess I could have it too...They are both on Tamiflu... I do not see any reason to do so... I just hope I make it!


Keep in mind, young children and the elderly are most vunerable to the flu. I don't think you're either. wink

I am aware... i am aware the flu kills thousands (10 or so) each year... but seems like a personal choice. oh and the issue here is not about the shot...(Did it say which one he had A or B?) the shot is often not very effective *this year the B portion was only moderaty effective)

and I am pretty old! lol

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #7 posted 02/10/20 7:18pm

PennyPurple

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Pokeno4Money said:

Yeah but Tamiflu isn't a flu shot, it's a prescription that TREATS the flu if you have it.

The thing is, why bother going to a doctor if you're not gonna follow the doctor's advice to take a certain medication?

I have no issue with those who are against vaccinations.

But when a child has something that can turn deadly, I just can't imagine refusing to give the child a medication that would likely help them get better.

It's like if my child had a very high fever and the doctor prescribed penicillin, I'd damn well give the child the penicillin. I do think there should be some sort of law in that situation.




I have a problem with the parents who are against vaccinations. It is a requirement for them to have vaccinations or they can't be in school. So how are they getting around it? Religous Beliefs?

They put other children at risk and pregnant mothers at risk also. Just like the out break of measles. It's because they don't get their kids vaccinated. sad

COME BACK RODEO COME BACK!
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Reply #8 posted 02/10/20 7:21pm

benni

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PennyPurple said:

I think it's something the mother will live with the rest of her life. She is probably heart broken and will never recover.


I don't think she should be charged with anything. There is no law about giving your child Tamiflu.

I agree. Many people seek alternative medications or organic treatments when it comes to certain diagnoses.

There is no indication that the flu was severe, or more severe, than what many people (including children) get. According to Johns Hopkins, depending upon the severity of the symptoms, doctors may prescribe acetaminophen, cough medicine, or antiviral medications. All tamiflu does is to decrease the severity of a stuffy nose, cough, sore throat, fever/chills, aches, tiredness, and it may shorten the length of the flu by one or two days. There is nothing to indicate that if the child had taken Tamiflu that it would have prevented his death. It can decrease the risks associate with the flu, but that is not a guarantee. The FDA has concluded that Tamiflu is not proven to saves lives, as medical journalist Jeanne Lenzer wrote in 2015 in the BMJ.

The Food and Drug Administration told The BMJ that data submitted to it for review do not support the claim that the neuraminidase inhibitor oseltamivir (marketed by Genentech and Roche as Tamiflu) ‘saves lives.’ The FDA said that oseltamivir ‘has not been proven to have a positive impact on the potential consequences (such as hospitalizations, mortality, or economic impact) of seasonal, avian, or pandemic influenza.’

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Reply #9 posted 02/10/20 7:24pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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PennyPurple said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Yeah but Tamiflu isn't a flu shot, it's a prescription that TREATS the flu if you have it.

The thing is, why bother going to a doctor if you're not gonna follow the doctor's advice to take a certain medication?

I have no issue with those who are against vaccinations.

But when a child has something that can turn deadly, I just can't imagine refusing to give the child a medication that would likely help them get better.

It's like if my child had a very high fever and the doctor prescribed penicillin, I'd damn well give the child the penicillin. I do think there should be some sort of law in that situation.




I have a problem with the parents who are against vaccinations. It is a requirement for them to have vaccinations or they can't be in school. So how are they getting around it? Religous Beliefs?

They put other children at risk and pregnant mothers at risk also. Just like the out break of measles. It's because they don't get their kids vaccinated. sad

It varies state to state *AS IT SHOULD* many states have a religious exclusion some have a philosophical objection. The ones I have looked into are a hassle--multiple steps all by snail male and they have to be re-submitted each year. (more hassle that getting a shot).

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #10 posted 02/11/20 4:46am

Pokeno4Money

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PennyPurple said:

I have a problem with the parents who are against vaccinations. It is a requirement for them to have vaccinations or they can't be in school. So how are they getting around it? Religous Beliefs?

They put other children at risk and pregnant mothers at risk also. Just like the out break of measles. It's because they don't get their kids vaccinated. sad


That's very true, no different than those who go to work when they are deathly ill and spread their illness to coworkers or customers etc.

And then there's the parents who intentionally cause their kids to be infected with Chicken Pox because they believe it's better for them to get it at a young age. I can see the arguments both for and against doing that.

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #11 posted 02/11/20 4:54am

PennyPurple

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Pokeno4Money said:

PennyPurple said:

They put other children at risk and pregnant mothers at risk also. Just like the out break of measles. It's because they don't get their kids vaccinated. sad


That's very true, no different than those who go to work when they are deathly ill and spread their illness to coworkers or customers etc.

And then there's the parents who intentionally cause their kids to be infected with Chicken Pox because they believe it's better for them to get it at a young age. I can see the arguments both for and against doing that.

I don't know if the chicken pox vaccine is mandatory now or not. Back when my kids were little it was up to the parents if they wanted it. My first child (the chicken pox vaccine wasn't available) did actually get the chicken pox, my 2nd child was around her at the time, and did not get them, my 3rd child wasn't born yet. Only my 2nd & 3rd received the vaccine.


I had chicken pox as a child and it was miserable.

COME BACK RODEO COME BACK!
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Reply #12 posted 02/11/20 5:00am

Pokeno4Money

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PennyPurple said:

I had chicken pox as a child and it was miserable.


Me too, and I still have some permanent marks from it.

But my understanding is getting it as an adult is much worse, and can even be deadly.

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #13 posted 02/11/20 6:45am

2freaky4church
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That's some crazy JW shit there. Climate denial is far worse. wink.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #14 posted 02/11/20 7:22am

Pokeno4Money

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2freaky4church1 said:

That's some crazy JW shit there. Climate denial is far worse. wink.


John Wayne shit?

Interesting, Biden just recently tried to use John Wayne as an excuse for his insulting a female college student.

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #15 posted 02/11/20 7:24am

2freaky4church
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Wayne got his flu shots.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #16 posted 02/11/20 7:26am

Pokeno4Money

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2freaky4church1 said:

Wayne got his flu shots.


Said in my JW voice: "Well I reckon he did, partner." cowboy

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #17 posted 02/11/20 8:07am

2freaky4church
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u are weird.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #18 posted 02/11/20 10:03am

Pokeno4Money

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2freaky4church1 said:

u are weird.


Thanks. After all, I am a Prince fan ya know. wink

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #19 posted 02/11/20 11:38am

guitarslinger4
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Pokeno4Money said:



I have no issue with those who are against vaccinations.






I do. The best thing an anti-vaxxer or someone with archaic beliefs about modern medicine can do is not have kids because invariably, the kids will pay the ultimate price for their parents being idiots.

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Reply #20 posted 02/11/20 2:14pm

Pokeno4Money

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guitarslinger44 said:

Pokeno4Money said:



I have no issue with those who are against vaccinations.






I do. The best thing an anti-vaxxer or someone with archaic beliefs about modern medicine can do is not have kids because invariably, the kids will pay the ultimate price for their parents being idiots.


Allow me to explain further.

Personally, I support most vaccinations. I don't think they are harmful the way some people believe.

But I also don't like the idea of being forced to have something shot into my body that I don't feel comfortable about, if it's supposedly preventative. Ditto for my children.

HOWEVER ... if it's a recommended treatment for a child by a medical professional, it should be mandatory unless a different doctor says otherwise.

And if it's preventative and you refuse to get it, then steps should be taken to protect others ... like for instance requiring home schooling if the child doesn't get the proper vaccines.

Some employers require their employees to either get the flu vaccine, or wear a mask. I like that policy, because it gives the employees a choice. They aren't being forced to get vaccinated, as long as they wear a mask instead.


"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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