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Thread started 01/15/20 7:30pm

luv4u

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Trump Impeachment & Trial Discussion - 3

Other thread self locked. https://prince.org/msg/105/461445


The Hill: https://thehill.com/


First discussion: https://prince.org/msg/105/460811

c-span.org impeachment page: https://www.c-span.org/impeachment/

Edmonton, AB - canada
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Reply #1 posted 01/16/20 2:47am

benni

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Kellyanne Conway was being interviewed last night by Chris Cuomo, while Rachel Maddow was interviewing Lev Parnas (very incriminating interview for the Trump team), and she claimed that she did not know Lev Parnas during her interview with Cuomo. Lev Parnas's attorney posted this:


Joseph A. Bondy@josephabondy

Enjoyed watching @KellyannePolls on @CNN, arguing with @ChrisCuomo about @realDonaldTrump and repeatedly claiming she does not know Lev Parnas. #LevRemembers #LetLevSpeak




This guy brings receipts to every claim they make. Would you pose this closely with someone you don't know?


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Reply #2 posted 01/16/20 4:21am

OnlyNDaUsa

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It is cute how botox thinks she has ANY say in how the Senate disposed of these charges... If the Senate can not just dismiss them off hand then I want them to call joe and hunter and adam and e... make joe explain what he meant when he got that guy fired and make hunter explain how he got the job and adam how he was so privy to the details and the last one... we all have a right to face our accuser in open 'court.' without some independent evidence that could have been discovered independatly... he must take the stand.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #3 posted 01/16/20 5:43am

benni

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

It is cute how botox thinks she has ANY say in how the Senate disposed of these charges... If the Senate can not just dismiss them off hand then I want them to call joe and hunter and adam and e... make joe explain what he meant when he got that guy fired and make hunter explain how he got the job and adam how he was so privy to the details and the last one... we all have a right to face our accuser in open 'court.' without some independent evidence that could have been discovered independatly... he must take the stand.



Explanation about firing of Ukrainian prosecutor: https://www.usatoday.com/...785620002/

Hunter Biden and Burisma: https://www.vox.com/polic...ine-shokin

Adam privvy to what details?


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Reply #4 posted 01/16/20 1:07pm

RodeoSchro

OnlyNDaUsa said:

It is cute how botox thinks she has ANY say in how the Senate disposed of these charges... If the Senate can not just dismiss them off hand then I want them to call joe and hunter and adam and e... make joe explain what he meant when he got that guy fired and make hunter explain how he got the job and adam how he was so privy to the details and the last one... we all have a right to face our accuser in open 'court.' without some independent evidence that could have been discovered independatly... he must take the stand.



It is cute how you think calling people that you've never met by their first name somehow gives you gravitas.

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Reply #5 posted 01/16/20 2:18pm

RodeoSchro

There are SO many rats in this deal. One of the newly-discovered rats is some dude named Robert Hyde. Whether or not he was asking for former ambassador Marie Yovanovitch to be assassinated is certainly an open topic. But at the very least he appears to have been involved in illegal surveillance of Ambassador Yovanovich. Well......

...the FBI just visited (raided?) his home and his office. That is usually not a good thing - just ask Michael Cohen.

Hyde is currently campaigning to be the GOP nominee for Congress in Connecticut. Surprised?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/...index.html


FBI investigators on Thursday visited both the home and business of Connecticut congressional candidate Robert Hyde, who this week was implicated in the Ukraine scandal.

The agents were seen by CNN and their presence was confirmed by a law enforcement official. They were at the home early Thursday morning in Weatogue, Connecticut, before going to Hyde's business in nearby Avon.

Hyde runs both his landscaping company and his campaign headquarters from the office. The investigators did not answer questions as to Hyde's whereabouts or why they wanted to speak with him. No other details were provided.
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Reply #6 posted 01/17/20 12:15am

DiminutiveRock
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Can SEKULOW ethically represent Trump in these impeachment hearings?

Oh, that's right - ethics went out the window on January 21 2017

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #7 posted 01/17/20 12:35am

DiminutiveRock
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lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #8 posted 01/17/20 3:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

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benni said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

It is cute how botox thinks she has ANY say in how the Senate disposed of these charges... If the Senate can not just dismiss them off hand then I want them to call joe and hunter and adam and e... make joe explain what he meant when he got that guy fired and make hunter explain how he got the job and adam how he was so privy to the details and the last one... we all have a right to face our accuser in open 'court.' without some independent evidence that could have been discovered independatly... he must take the stand.



Explanation about firing of Ukrainian prosecutor: https://www.usatoday.com/...785620002/

Hunter Biden and Burisma: https://www.vox.com/polic...ine-shokin

Adam privvy to what details?


so you agree that they should testify and that joe's statements demonstat cause to investgate just as much if not more that the cause to impeach trump...

adam needs to anwer that under oath.

and the leaker too

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #9 posted 01/17/20 6:21am

RodeoSchro

DiminutiveRocker said:

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol





falloff

Tweet of the decade!

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Reply #10 posted 01/17/20 11:46am

RodeoSchro

The GOP has resorted to its tried-and-true "Lev Parnas is an indicted scuzzball who's trying to avoid jail!!1!111!!!!" schtick but remember this:

Lev Parnas isn't the SDNY's scuzzball. Lev Parnas isn't Nancy Pelosi's scuzzball.

Lev Parnas is Genius Lawyer(TM) Rudy Giuliani's scuzzball.

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Reply #11 posted 01/17/20 12:01pm

Astasheiks

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Liar in Chief!!!!

Trump again denied knowing Lev Parnas. So Parnas' lawyer posted more robust proof.

Despite a warning from Lev Parnas, President Trump claimed not to know him again Thursday. "I don't know Parnas, other than I guess I had pictures taken, which I do with thousands of people," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "I don't know him at all, don't know what he's about, don't know where he comes from, know nothing about him. ... I don't believe I've ever spoken to him."

Jospeh Bondy, Parnas' lawyer, brought the receipts, posting a video taken at Mar-a-Lago in December 2016, where Trump is clearly talking with Parnas, who is standing next to him and also Roman Nasirov, a former Ukrainian official charged with embezzlement

The Washington Post used that video in a jaunty roundup of Parnas posing, often on multiple occasions, next to Trump and other Republicans who claimed not to know him.

Calling Parnas a "Giuliani associate" is "way too limited — he is a full-fledged member of Trump Co," Chris Cuomo said on CNN Thursday night. As he ran through the details, he showed photo after photo of Parnas and Trump or members of his family and inner circle. "There are so many that I had to leave pictures out," Cuomo said.

https://www.yahoo.com/new...00872.html

Liar in Chief!!!! mad biggrin

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Reply #12 posted 01/17/20 12:49pm

Astasheiks

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President Donald Trump reprimanded his top military brass in a 2017 meeting at the Pentagon, calling them a "bunch of dopes and babies" and telling them "you're all losers," according to a forthcoming book by two Washington Post reporters.

The heated July 20, 2017 meeting has been previously reported -- including then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's response to fellow US officials, in which he said the Pres...-ing moron." However, "A Very Stable Genius" by Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker reveals more extraordinary details about the meeting, including the President's barrage of insults against his top military leadership.
Tillerson, then-Secretary of Defense James Mattis and then-Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn hoped at the meeting to explain to the President about the importance of America's key alliances for national security. They were concerned that Trump's proposals were a threat to America's standing in the world, the Post reported.
Using lots of visual aids in an attempt to hold Trump's interest, the three men briefed the President on US deployments, bases and embassies around the world, and the value of trade agreements in boosting America's national security, the Post reported.
But during the briefing, at which the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other top military leaders were present, Trump demanded an explanation as to why the US hasn't won in Afghanistan, calling it a "loser war," according to an excerpt adapted from the book and published in The Washington Post Friday. He frequently interrupted the briefing to object to US policies, like the Iran nuclear deal and the NATO alliance, the Post reported.
"You're all losers. You don't know how to win anymore," the commander-in-chief told the meeting attendees, according to the Post's quote of the book.
From there, the President's tirade continued, with Trump telling the military officials: "I wouldn't go to war with you people."
"You're a bunch of dopes and babies," he told the room, according to the Post's excerpt.
The book claimed that those who were in the room were shocked and stunned by the President's remarks, some considered leaving the meeting, and one worried, "What would our worst adversaries think if they knew he said this?"
Attendees described Vice President Mike Pence, who was also in the meeting, as silent, "frozen like a statue" and "a wax museum guy" during Trump's lashing out, according to the book excerpt.
Tillerson, however, spoke up: "Mr. President, you're totally wrong. None of that is true."
According to the Post's excerpt, after the meeting ended and Trump left, Tillerson told a group of confidantes, "He's a f---ing moron," a now-infamous comment first reported in 2017 by NBC News.
He should have already been removed from office for talking to his Military Brass this way eek mad
From the punk that dodge being drafted...

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Reply #13 posted 01/17/20 1:20pm

RodeoSchro

Astasheiks said:

President Donald Trump reprimanded his top military brass in a 2017 meeting at the Pentagon, calling them a "bunch of dopes and babies" and telling them "you're all losers," according to a forthcoming book by two Washington Post reporters.

The heated July 20, 2017 meeting has been previously reported -- including then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's response to fellow US officials, in which he said the Pres...-ing moron." However, "A Very Stable Genius" by Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker reveals more extraordinary details about the meeting, including the President's barrage of insults against his top military leadership.
Tillerson, then-Secretary of Defense James Mattis and then-Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn hoped at the meeting to explain to the President about the importance of America's key alliances for national security. They were concerned that Trump's proposals were a threat to America's standing in the world, the Post reported.
Using lots of visual aids in an attempt to hold Trump's interest, the three men briefed the President on US deployments, bases and embassies around the world, and the value of trade agreements in boosting America's national security, the Post reported.
But during the briefing, at which the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other top military leaders were present, Trump demanded an explanation as to why the US hasn't won in Afghanistan, calling it a "loser war," according to an excerpt adapted from the book and published in The Washington Post Friday. He frequently interrupted the briefing to object to US policies, like the Iran nuclear deal and the NATO alliance, the Post reported.
"You're all losers. You don't know how to win anymore," the commander-in-chief told the meeting attendees, according to the Post's quote of the book.
From there, the President's tirade continued, with Trump telling the military officials: "I wouldn't go to war with you people."
"You're a bunch of dopes and babies," he told the room, according to the Post's excerpt.
The book claimed that those who were in the room were shocked and stunned by the President's remarks, some considered leaving the meeting, and one worried, "What would our worst adversaries think if they knew he said this?"
Attendees described Vice President Mike Pence, who was also in the meeting, as silent, "frozen like a statue" and "a wax museum guy" during Trump's lashing out, according to the book excerpt.
Tillerson, however, spoke up: "Mr. President, you're totally wrong. None of that is true."
According to the Post's excerpt, after the meeting ended and Trump left, Tillerson told a group of confidantes, "He's a f---ing moron," a now-infamous comment first reported in 2017 by NBC News.
He should have already been removed from office for talking to his Military Brass this way eek mad
From the punk that dodge being drafted...



I read that entire article on the Washington Post site (it's an excerpt from a book, actually).

That article is mind-blowing. It's a miracle we're still a country. Remember that anonymous person who said there was a whole layer of people who worked to keep us out of trouble, basically by ignoring Trump's orders?

I fully believe that. And those people are heroes.

Cadet Bone Spurs, on the other hand, is an embarrassment to all Americans.

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Reply #14 posted 01/17/20 7:48pm

noobman

Messages between Lev Parnas and Nunes' aide, Dereck Harvey:

https://www.youtube.com/w...Zzy0cC9T4A

I wonder how Nunes is going to spin this.

Bit weird. The name is spelt "Dereck Harvey" on whatsapp... but wikipedia writes it as "Derek Harvey"

[Edited 1/17/20 19:52pm]

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Reply #15 posted 01/19/20 1:20pm

luv4u

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Live this Tuesday January 21, 1:00 pm EST - Day 2


https://www.c-span.org/vi...rial-day-2

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
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Reply #16 posted 01/20/20 5:56am

OnlyNDaUsa

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when he is exonerated and re-elected it will be fun... (but like i did in 15/16 I really do not see him getting the most votes again....but who knows.)

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #17 posted 01/20/20 7:19am

13cjk13

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benni said:

Kellyanne Conway was being interviewed last night by Chris Cuomo, while Rachel Maddow was interviewing Lev Parnas (very incriminating interview for the Trump team), and she claimed that she did not know Lev Parnas during her interview with Cuomo. Lev Parnas's attorney posted this:


Joseph A. Bondy@josephabondy

Enjoyed watching @KellyannePolls on @CNN, arguing with @ChrisCuomo about @realDonaldTrump and repeatedly claiming she does not know Lev Parnas. #LevRemembers #LetLevSpeak




This guy brings receipts to every claim they make. Would you pose this closely with someone you don't know?


That is a whole lot of ugly in one picture.

"If we had had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."
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Reply #18 posted 01/20/20 2:06pm

RodeoSchro

OnlyNDaUsa said:

when he is exonerated and re-elected it will be fun... (but like i did in 15/16 I really do not see him getting the most votes again....but who knows.)



Exonerated? So you believe that if he is not convicted by the Senate, then he is "exonerated". Interesting.

As a student of logic, you must therefore apply the same standard to Bill Cinton. He too was "exonerated" by the Senate. It seems to me that you have a lot of apologizing to do.

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Reply #19 posted 01/20/20 2:11pm

13cjk13

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RodeoSchro said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

when he is exonerated and re-elected it will be fun... (but like i did in 15/16 I really do not see him getting the most votes again....but who knows.)



Exonerated? So you believe that if he is not convicted by the Senate, then he is "exonerated". Interesting.

As a student of logic, you must therefore apply the same standard to Bill Cinton. He too was "exonerated" by the Senate. It seems to me that you have a lot of apologizing to do.

Sometimes those Fox talking points can really bite you in the ass lol lol

"If we had had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."
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Reply #20 posted 01/20/20 2:24pm

IanRG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

when he is exonerated and re-elected it will be fun... (but like i did in 15/16 I really do not see him getting the most votes again....but who knows.)

.

trump cannot be exonerated until after he is convicted - only a guilty person can be exonerated. A person is not considered guilty under the law just because they have been indicted/charged. The impeachment court can only convict or acquit trump of the impeachment charges and then it is limited to determining whether he is allowed to stay in his current office, that trump should be removed for office or be both removed and prevented from serving in any office. The impeachment court can recommend trump face further criminal charges, but these will be back in the real court system. This is basic law.

.

This is just perpetuating the miss-use of the term "exonerate" as used by the far-right partisan media about the Mueller report following Barr falsely claiming it "exonerated" trump. It did not exonerate trump and it could not.

.

Obviously, there is next to no chance trump will be convicted on the impeachment charges. As this will (again) be on party lines, this is a serious flaw in your constitution. It failed in the previous two attempts: Nixon would almost certainly be found guilty of high crimes and more, so he resigned in exchange for a pardon for these crimes before he could be impeached. Clinton was charged with lesser articles and the court found that this not sufficient to require his removal from office, hence not guilty. Whilst the latter could be seen as a reasonable measure of the weight of the articles, neither were court decisions decided on proper legal grounds.

[Edited 1/20/20 14:53pm]

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Reply #21 posted 01/20/20 2:37pm

RodeoSchro

OK, place your bets! There are a LOT of variables in the Senate trial of unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump. Here are the variables as I see them:

1. Starting with something that isn't a variable - unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump asked Ukraine (and China) to meddle in our election for his own personal benefit. Trump admitted it; everyone believes it; no one disputes it. The question to resolve is this - is asking a foreign country to influence our election for the benefit of one candidate a crime worthy of removal of office?

2. Will Moscow Mitch allow witnesses and documents? Clearly the defendant doesn't want them, and there can be one and only one reason why - the witness that have been prevented from testifying, and the documents that the White House refuses to release, are detrimental to unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump's defense. And his defense is, "I didn't do anything wrong". Therefore, one can only surmise that he did do something wrong, and the witnesses/documents will show that. Even Moscow Mitch knows that. Will Moscow Mitch show a backbone, or is he in fact happy with being held upright by a yellow stripe painted down his back?

3. The American public wants witnesses and documents. All the polls support that, including the polling released today by CNN. The Americans that want witnesses and documents come in at 69%. Even a plurality of Republicans want witnesses and documents - they break down 48% for and 44% against.

4. The same poll shows that a majority - a majority, i.e. in this case 51% - want unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump convicted by the Senate and removed from office. For those keeping score at home, another way to say that is, "the will of the electorate today is that unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump should be removed from office". Now - don't give me all this "they aren't the electorate unless it's an election!!11!1!" fluff. We have a Constitution that allows for impeachment and removal from office, and that's what the electorate advocates; otherwise, the electorate would have undergone the process of amending the Constitution to remove the impeachment and removal process

5. But speaking of the electorate, you know who will be judged by them? Senators and Congressmen. If, as some have put forth, the electorate sees this as a gigantic waste of time and money then they will not only re-elect unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump, but they will vote out people like Nancy Pelosi; Adam Schiff; and Chuck Schumer

6. However, it's not always that simple. Cowardly Republicans believe that if they go against unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump then he will endorse their primary opponent, which will cause them (the incumbent Senators) to lose in the primary. But polling shows that if the cowardly Republicans stand with unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump, they will likely lose the general election. It's a danged-if-you-do, danged-if-you-don't scenario. These being Republicans, sadly I expect them to take the coward's way out and reason that a loss in their primary would be a certainty, but maybe they can pull off a miracle in the general election. NOTE: I've giving the cowardly Republicans no character or evidence of a moral center, as they have shown none

7. For instance, many Republican Senators said in the last few weeks that they would not be impartial jurors. These same Senators just signed an oath pledging to be impartial Senators. So, Lindsey Graham - were you lying when you said you wouldn't be impartial, or were you lying when you signed an oath saying you would be impartial? See - these guys have no moral center

8. BUT - there are some Republican senators that are retiring this year. Lamar Alexander, Mike Enzi and Pat Roberts are not running for re-election. So item 6 above doesn't apply to them. Will they then follow their conscience and demand witnesses and documents? If so, then it would only take one-count-'em-one Republican Senator to join them (assuming all Democrats vote for witnesses/documents, and it's not a guarantee that Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema or Doug Jones will). Sometimes you can count on Susan collins but she's in the re-election fight of her life already, plus she totally wussed out on Brett Kavanaugh. Lisa Murkowski is another Senator that many times shows actual integrity, and she's not up until 2022. One thing, though - while she's won 3 Senate elections, she has never won a majority of the vote.

9. I could list more but here's a really good article that does it better than me: https://fivethirtyeight.c...s-removal/ (NOTE: I hold out more hope for a show of guts from Ben Sasse than do the article's authors)

10. If witnesses and documents ARE forced in, all bets are off. Seriously - they must know so much dirt or unrepentant serial adulterer Donald J. Trump wouldn't keep people who never even worked for him from testifying, and yet he's done just that.

11. And last but never least, as always Rand Paul is a popdick.

popcorn

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Reply #22 posted 01/20/20 3:36pm

2elijah

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

when he is exonerated and re-elected it will be fun... (but like i did in 15/16 I really do not see him getting the most votes again....but who knows.)


He’ll never be exonerated. Impeachment is on his record ‘forever.’ Doesn’t matter if he gets acquitted.
falloff
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Reply #23 posted 01/21/20 5:35am

RodeoSchro

2elijah said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

when he is exonerated and re-elected it will be fun... (but like i did in 15/16 I really do not see him getting the most votes again....but who knows.)


He’ll never be exonerated. Impeachment is on his record ‘forever.’ Doesn’t matter if he gets acquitted.


I don’t think he thought that post through.
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Reply #24 posted 01/21/20 6:49am

Empress

RodeoSchro said:

2elijah said:
He’ll never be exonerated. Impeachment is on his record ‘forever.’ Doesn’t matter if he gets acquitted.
I don’t think he thought that post through.

Yeah, like most of them. Just a Trump puppet.

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Reply #25 posted 01/21/20 7:53am

13cjk13

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Empress said:

RodeoSchro said:

2elijah said: I don’t think he thought that post through.

Yeah, like most of them. Just a Trump puppet.

Yes, very true.

"If we had had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."
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Reply #26 posted 01/21/20 12:02pm

RodeoSchro

I wish a Democratic Senator would tell Moscow Mitch that because his wife sits on the Cabinet of the president that is being tried, Moscow Mitch has an obvious conflict of interest and must recuse himself.

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Reply #27 posted 01/21/20 2:30pm

RodeoSchro

Susan Collins said she is likely to support calling witnesses. That's good but she's not the most reliable person, so let's hope she decides to definitely support calling witnesses.

Always remember this:

An honest person would not stop witnesses from testifying.

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Reply #28 posted 01/21/20 5:10pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

Susan Collins said she is likely to support calling witnesses. That's good but she's not the most reliable person, so let's hope she decides to definitely support calling witnesses.

Always remember this:

An honest person would not stop witnesses from testifying.

joe and hunter and the leaker are MUST calls... the all have evidence that goes directed to the questions... joe and hunter have to be drilled on how hunter got the job and why joe extorted them to fire the person looking into the apparent corruption...

the leaker has to be called as there is no actual direct evidence to support any of the claims in #1...

#2 is total garbage as all they did was wage a defence against political persecution and GASP appeal to the courts!

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #29 posted 01/21/20 5:45pm

luv4u

Moderator

avatar

moderator

OnlyNDaUsa said:

RodeoSchro said:

Susan Collins said she is likely to support calling witnesses. That's good but she's not the most reliable person, so let's hope she decides to definitely support calling witnesses.

Always remember this:

An honest person would not stop witnesses from testifying.

joe and hunter and the leaker are MUST calls... the all have evidence that goes directed to the questions... joe and hunter have to be drilled on how hunter got the job and why joe extorted them to fire the person looking into the apparent corruption...

the leaker has to be called as there is no actual direct evidence to support any of the claims in #1...

#2 is total garbage as all they did was wage a defence against political persecution and GASP appeal to the courts!


Joe and Hunter have nothing to do with what Trump is accused of doing. Trump brought them into the mix as a distraction.

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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