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Reply #30 posted 01/10/20 5:45pm

jjhunsecker

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I’ve said before: I don’t think there are “bad words “ per se as much as there are “bad contexts “ and “bad intentions “
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Reply #31 posted 01/10/20 8:48pm

Pokeno4Money

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jjhunsecker said:

Pokeno4Money said:


As Spike Lee would say, yes absolutely you did. The more kids/adults/whatever see/hear/use the word, the longer it will live on. The only way to truly abolish it is to stop using it, period. There are plenty of other racial and ethnic slurs that died off long ago, because people stopped using them.

So by preventing impressionable young children from seeing the word in those books, you may have helped eradicate the word someday. So thank you.

Yet in that very film, Spike Lee has Pino use that word several times, to illustrate his ignorance and hatred. And that very word used by Sal precipitated a violent confrontation. It would be extremely unrealistic NOT to use the word in this context, to show the power and the ugliness of it in certain contexts. (And I grew up around lots of guys just like Pino, who loved Black culture but hated n****rs....That character was very true to life


True, however that was an R-rated film which (presumably) children didn't watch.

If children were to watch it (and I know some probably did), would they have grasped the power and ugliness of the word? Probably not. Chances are they'd probably go around repeating the word too, which seems to be what happens already today. Do today's teenagers understand the power and ugliness surrounding the word? Probably not, because unlike you they didn't live it back in the day before rap music and music videos etc. And most kids don't bother to study up on the origin or historical usage of words.

That's the problem, being exposed to something doesn't necessarily mean you'll learn from it.

"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #32 posted 01/11/20 5:45am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

I see some guy is calling me out by name here, and complained that I “ignored “ some ridiculous point he was attempting to make.... Well, that’s consistent, since I have ignored this individual for the past few years, no matter how many times he tries to engage me or bait me... I don’t have time for silly trolling games, or the stomach to deal with someone who runs to the mods to complain whenever someone writes something he doesn’t like... Now let’s get back to the adults having a discussion....

for years? huh I am not sure that is true. I was just asking if it was the material or the speaker? you can not answer because it will prove the double standard. As to ruining to the mods? not any more. they let a person accuse me with zero support to accuse me of a federal crime... but whatever...i know ... i know.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #33 posted 01/11/20 5:48am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

I’ve said before: I don’t think there are “bad words “ per se as much as there are “bad contexts “ and “bad intentions “

then answer the question: same bit but it was Michael Richards? Still "hilarious"?

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #34 posted 01/11/20 7:05am

KoolEaze

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

I’ve said before: I don’t think there are “bad words “ per se as much as there are “bad contexts “ and “bad intentions “

then answer the question: same bit but it was Michael Richards? Still "hilarious"?

Richards used that term in a totally different situation, different context and different intention.

Different word, too. Calling your hecklers "nigger" and using the term "nigga" during your show are totally different things.

I´m sure you know that as well.

And no, it would not be okay because Richards is white....which changes the whole situation.

Personally, I´d prefer a world where both variations of the word would not exist and not be in use.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"




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Reply #35 posted 01/11/20 7:40am

jjhunsecker

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KoolEaze said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

then answer the question: same bit but it was Michael Richards? Still "hilarious"?

Richards used that term in a totally different situation, different context and different intention.

Different word, too. Calling your hecklers "nigger" and using the term "nigga" during your show are totally different things.

I´m sure you know that as well.

And no, it would not be okay because Richards is white....which changes the whole situation.

Personally, I´d prefer a world where both variations of the word would not exist and not be in use.

My point exactly. Richards was NOT joking when he called hecklers at his show "n****rs". He meant to insult and demean them. Actually, if he had a found a way to joke with them about being Black, and it was truly funny, I'd have probably laughed at it too... But where is the "joke" in just calling someone a racial slur, and not intending it to be humorous ?

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Reply #36 posted 01/11/20 7:47am

jjhunsecker

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Pokeno4Money said:

jjhunsecker said:

Pokeno4Money said: Yet in that very film, Spike Lee has Pino use that word several times, to illustrate his ignorance and hatred. And that very word used by Sal precipitated a violent confrontation. It would be extremely unrealistic NOT to use the word in this context, to show the power and the ugliness of it in certain contexts. (And I grew up around lots of guys just like Pino, who loved Black culture but hated n****rs....That character was very true to life


True, however that was an R-rated film which (presumably) children didn't watch.

If children were to watch it (and I know some probably did), would they have grasped the power and ugliness of the word? Probably not. Chances are they'd probably go around repeating the word too, which seems to be what happens already today. Do today's teenagers understand the power and ugliness surrounding the word? Probably not, because unlike you they didn't live it back in the day before rap music and music videos etc. And most kids don't bother to study up on the origin or historical usage of words.

That's the problem, being exposed to something doesn't necessarily mean you'll learn from it.

My point is that not everything is for everybody, and ertainly young children should not be exposed to certain things. "Huckleberry Finn" is a work of art- maybe 5 year olds should not be reading an unabridged and uncensored version, but it could be taught and explained to kids day 12 and up.

No work of art should be off limits- even "Gone With the Wind", a great film with very problemeatic politics. "The Birth of a Nation" (1915) is a brilliant film as well as a work of racial hysteria and madness. I think even the racist Looney Toons and Disney cartoons should be available for adults to view, along with an explanation of the contexts in wwhich they were created. You can't bury history to sooth the sensibilities of today.

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Reply #37 posted 01/11/20 7:53am

jjhunsecker

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I can answer any question...I simply refuse to deal directly with this guy. End of story. He can try to engage or bait me all he wants. I ended all direct engagement with him when I made a joke about him when "Black Panther" was released - in Janauary 2018, 2 years ago- and he ran to the mods to complain about it. That's when I decided only to deal directly with adults.



What does it say about someone who actually saved a 3 year old deleted post, just so he could pull it and try to play "gotcha" ? Pathetic....

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Reply #38 posted 01/11/20 7:57am

jjhunsecker

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Chris Rock nails it....again !

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/w...EuXhx1SUeM[/youtube]

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Reply #39 posted 01/11/20 7:58am

uPtoWnNY

jjhunsecker said:

I can answer any question...I simply refuse to deal directly with this guy. End of story. He can try to engage or bait me all he wants. I ended all direct engagement with him when I made a joke about him when "Black Panther" was released - in Janauary 2018, 2 years ago- and he ran to the mods to complain about it. That's when I decided only to deal directly with adults.



What does it say about someone who actually saved a 3 year old deleted post, just so he could pull it and try to play "gotcha" ? Pathetic....

nod

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Reply #40 posted 01/11/20 8:03am

OnlyNDaUsa

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KoolEaze said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

then answer the question: same bit but it was Michael Richards? Still "hilarious"?

Richards used that term in a totally different situation, different context and different intention.

Different word, too. (Suff cut out)

Yes I agree... But what I said was it was the SAME bit... the same jokes... YES I picked him because I remember when he was rightfully raked over the coals for it.



the point is it is not just the context or intent... it is at least in part due to who is speaking.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #41 posted 01/11/20 8:08am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

I can answer any question...I simply refuse to deal directly with this guy. End of story. He can try to engage or bait me all he wants. I ended all direct engagement with him when I made a joke about him when "Black Panther" was released - in Janauary 2018, 2 years ago- and he ran to the mods to complain about it. That's when I decided only to deal directly with adults.



What does it say about someone who actually saved a 3 year old deleted post, just so he could pull it and try to play "gotcha" ? Pathetic....

so you do so indirectly? scared? I get it. It is okay... you made bigoted comments. Yes I took a screen cap and when you insisted you've never made a bigoted post I had it to pove you wrong.

you can not find any such posts by me.

Just admit you have a double standard and that you would not have given Jay Leno a pass for the joke Bill Maher made...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #42 posted 01/11/20 8:10am

uPtoWnNY

EmmaMcG said:

RodeoSchro said:



I don't like the N word or any variants, but I'd like to see Chappelle's bit. I'll look it up.

Did he use that word because Mark Twain used it a lot in his books? I can see how the two things could be tied together by the right person.

But tell me what you think of this:

One of our charities collects books for school kids and then we distribute them throughout various elementary schools. Last month my wife and I were at a school distributing books, and one of the books was a collection of Mark Twain novels - including The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

I checked the book jacket and there was the word "unabridged". I figured that meant the books included N word and all, and I was right. So I took that book out of the stack and brought it home with me. I didn't want any elementary school kids reading it.

Do you think I did the right thing?

Now, I'm whiter than snow so you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt but for what it's worth, I don't believe that history should be censored. Slavery in America, the Holocaust in Germany, the British killing the Irish and treating us as less than human, the constant criminal activity in the Catholic church, all of it. Kids should learn about all of it. As JJ said, these are teachable moments. Explain to the children why this kind of thing is wrong and how it impacts society and fuels even more hatred.

This black man agrees with you 10000%. Human history is not pretty. Shit, my country honors Christopher Colombus, racist slave-owning presidents and confederate generals.

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Reply #43 posted 01/11/20 8:12am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

Chris Rock nails it....again !

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/w...EuXhx1SUeM[/youtube]

except for Bill Maher and if you are in Quentin Tarantino movie?

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #44 posted 01/11/20 8:33am

jjhunsecker

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Someone who actualy was KICKED OFF this site for saying something so offensive (and begged like a dog to be be allowed back on) should not be criticizing others, now should they...SLAM GLAM ??

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Reply #45 posted 01/11/20 8:35am

jjhunsecker

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uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

RodeoSchro said: Now, I'm whiter than snow so you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt but for what it's worth, I don't believe that history should be censored. Slavery in America, the Holocaust in Germany, the British killing the Irish and treating us as less than human, the constant criminal activity in the Catholic church, all of it. Kids should learn about all of it. As JJ said, these are teachable moments. Explain to the children why this kind of thing is wrong and how it impacts society and fuels even more hatred.

This black man agrees with you 10000%. Human history is not pretty. Shit, my country honors Christopher Colombus, racist slave-owning presidents and confederate generals.

I sign on as well....Nothing should be hidden or forgotten or glossed over or prettified....

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Reply #46 posted 01/11/20 8:36am

jjhunsecker

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uPtoWnNY said:

jjhunsecker said:

I can answer any question...I simply refuse to deal directly with this guy. End of story. He can try to engage or bait me all he wants. I ended all direct engagement with him when I made a joke about him when "Black Panther" was released - in Janauary 2018, 2 years ago- and he ran to the mods to complain about it. That's when I decided only to deal directly with adults.



What does it say about someone who actually saved a 3 year old deleted post, just so he could pull it and try to play "gotcha" ? Pathetic....

nod

It's obvious he's obsessed over me, and the more I refuse to engage with him, the more irrational he becomes...if he lived near me, I'd be afraid I'd come home to find a boiling rabbit on my stove ! lol

[Edited 1/11/20 8:38am]

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Reply #47 posted 01/11/20 8:37am

OnlyNDaUsa

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I am not so much offend by that word. I will say something if it is used.

What is offensive are those who hold a double standard. Oh I like him so he gets a pass.

the topic title is a bit of race bating... it was meant to draw attention. As JJ had tried to defend his own use of race slurs and defended a white person he likes for using that word it seems to have had at least some intent to draw my attention.

On the other hand self appointed people that steal (taking something that is not their property is stealing) in order to prevent someone else from reading a book is not okay. What if it was Harry Potter and some loon took those books to prevent some kid being influenced by witch craft?

Yes I agree there is a difference when a black person says it than any white person. But there is a possible consequence of this. Consider the work place. If some people are allowed to use these words...that can create a standard where thoes words are allowed by anyone.




No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #48 posted 01/11/20 8:52am

jjhunsecker

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I cannot let lies about me go out there without clarification.



I have written several times how I grew up in what was often an openly racist environment. On several occassions, I had Whites- often Italian-Americans- accost me and call me "n****r" and other racial slurs, with asolutely NO provacation on my part. As I was raised to treat people EXACTLY as the treated me, I would respond to them with "racial slurs" against their groups , as I believe that turnabout is fair play.



My mistake in a post several years back, was in recounting the details of one such attack, and I used the words I responded with to my attackers, and did not put it quotes. I make NO APOLOGIES for fighting back with the exact weapons others used against me !! This guy, in an attempt to score points, is taking what I wrote out of context, and claiming that I used "racial slurs" in a post . The post was immediately deleted , which I had no problem with, since I realized my error...but this guy obviously quickly screenshotted and saved it, and obsessively brings it up over and over again, ad naseum, whenever we try to have a discussion here about race in America, in an attempt to "discredit" me or claim I have "double standards". It's just sad and pathetic.



[Edited 1/11/20 9:07am]

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Reply #49 posted 01/11/20 9:01am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

I cannot let lies about me go out there without clarification.



I have written several times how I grew up in what was often an openly racist environment. On several occassions, I had Whites- often Italian-Americans- accost me and call me "n****r" and other racial slurs, with asolutely NO provacation on my part. As I was raised to treat people EXACTLY as the treated me, I would respond to them with "racial slurs" against their groups , as I believe that turnabout is fair play.

My mistake in a post several years back, was in recounting the details of one such attack, and I used the words I responded with to my attackers, and did not put it quotes. I make NO APOLOGIES for fighting back with the exact weapons others used against me !! This guy, in an attempt to score points, is taking what I wrote out of context, and claiming that I used "racial slurs" in a post . The post was immediately deleted , which I had no problem with, since I realized my error...but this guy obviously quickly screenshotted and saved it, and obsessively brings it up over and over again, ad naseum, whenever we try to have a discussion here about race in America. It's just sad and pathetic.

and you want to go back to something you made up that was at least 12 years ago?

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #50 posted 01/11/20 9:08am

jjhunsecker

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Can we get back to the discussion at hand here, and ignore the trolls ?

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Reply #51 posted 01/11/20 11:37am

Pokeno4Money

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EmmaMcG said:

Now, I'm whiter than snow so you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt but for what it's worth, I don't believe that history should be censored. Slavery in America, the Holocaust in Germany, the British killing the Irish and treating us as less than human, the constant criminal activity in the Catholic church, all of it. Kids should learn about all of it. As JJ said, these are teachable moments. Explain to the children why this kind of thing is wrong and how it impacts society and fuels even more hatred.


Just curious, what was your stance on all the confederate-era statues that have been taken down and the confederate flags that have been banned? I agree with what you're saying about not censoring history. So why have the statues and other reminders of historic figures been removed because the person, despite the many great things they accomplished, also was racist during an era when racism was sadly acceptable? As JJ has often said, you need to take things in CONTEXT. What is completely unacceptable today, quite often was acceptable in the past.

There is a baseball (American sport) franchise located in Boston whose longtime owner was revered for all he did for the franchise and the community. He is directly responsible for over HALF A BILLION in grant money being awarded to non-profits throughout New England and Georgetown, South Carolina. The community even named a street after him. However, he was a genuine racist. And for that reason, and that reason only, just a couple years ago they removed all references to him including the street name.

So based on your earlier comments, people should be reminded about BOTH the good and the bad things he did ... right?

Same with General Lee?

Same with the at least dozen US Presidents who owned slaves, including revered ones such as Washington, Jefferson and Grant?


"Be good to yourselves, and each other."
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Reply #52 posted 01/11/20 12:32pm

DiminutiveRock
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jjhunsecker said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

Agreed. And the word was used in the time period depicted in Huck Finn - it was a part (albeit, an ugly part) of the culture at *that time* - it is revisionist history to act as if people were not demoralized, demeaned and dehumanized by that word. The word and its usage can be explained to children before letting them read Twain's classics, IMO.

I totally agree. I don’t think anything should be banned, especially works of art that are now “problematic “. These should be seen and read and especially taught, so people can learn how others thought and behaved in the past (or even today), and what behaviors and attitudes were accepted and widespread. I think even Nazi propagandist films and writing should be available, in the right context. Again, you can’t learn from something that is being hidden or has been destroyed.

Yep - you cannot revise what happened or when it happened. The N word was/is used to dehumanize people and THAT is part of our ugly American history just as the Nazi movement is a deep and ugly stain for Germany and the world.

Remember when Bill Maher used the N word in a joking way and was totally slapped for it? I remember Ice Cube coming on his show and saying that while he 100% believes Maher is not a racist and saw that he was trying to be funny - he also said that the N word no longer belongs to anyone but the black race to use in a different context. They can use it because they have co-opted the word - its theirs to use. JJ - what are your feelings on that? Do you feel that Maher was exercising (even unknowingly) white privilege to use the N word in his humor?




(P.S. that person cannot understand when you say you do not want to interact with him on here - it's pathetic to observe the futile attempts at getting you to respond - like a baby crying for a pacifier)

[Edited 1/11/20 12:33pm]

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #53 posted 01/11/20 12:42pm

jjhunsecker

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DiminutiveRocker said:

jjhunsecker said:

DiminutiveRocker said: I totally agree. I don’t think anything should be banned, especially works of art that are now “problematic “. These should be seen and read and especially taught, so people can learn how others thought and behaved in the past (or even today), and what behaviors and attitudes were accepted and widespread. I think even Nazi propagandist films and writing should be available, in the right context. Again, you can’t learn from something that is being hidden or has been destroyed.

Yep - you cannot revise what happened or when it happened. The N word was/is used to dehumanize people and THAT is part of our ugly American history just as the Nazi movement is a deep and ugly stain for Germany and the world.

Remember when Bill Maher used the N word in a joking way and was totally slapped for it? I remember Ice Cube coming on his show and saying that while he 100% believes Maher is not a racist and saw that he was trying to be funny - he also said that the N word no longer belongs to anyone but the black race to use in a different context. They can use it because they have co-opted the word - its theirs to use. JJ - what are your feelings on that? Do you feel that Maher was exercising (even unknowingly) white privilege to use the N word in his humor?




(P.S. that person cannot understand when you say you do not want to interact with him on here - it's pathetic to observe the futile attempts at getting you to respond - like a baby crying for a pacifier)

[Edited 1/11/20 12:33pm]

The thing with the Maher joke -which was an off the cuff attempt at humor and not part of a thought out routine- was that it was tone deaf . It opened him up to charges of possibly being "racist", which his history pretty much contradicts. That being said, I laughed when he said it. Notice- and I think this is very important- he was calling HIMSELF a "house n****r", not that he was directing that term against anyone else. So as I said many times, the CONTEXT is very important here.

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Reply #54 posted 01/11/20 3:01pm

OldFriends4Sal
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Is poverty bringing U down?
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Reply #55 posted 01/11/20 4:45pm

EmmaMcG

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Pokeno4Money said:



EmmaMcG said:


Now, I'm whiter than snow so you can take my opinion with a pinch of salt but for what it's worth, I don't believe that history should be censored. Slavery in America, the Holocaust in Germany, the British killing the Irish and treating us as less than human, the constant criminal activity in the Catholic church, all of it. Kids should learn about all of it. As JJ said, these are teachable moments. Explain to the children why this kind of thing is wrong and how it impacts society and fuels even more hatred.


Just curious, what was your stance on all the confederate-era statues that have been taken down and the confederate flags that have been banned? I agree with what you're saying about not censoring history. So why have the statues and other reminders of historic figures been removed because the person, despite the many great things they accomplished, also was racist during an era when racism was sadly acceptable? As JJ has often said, you need to take things in CONTEXT. What is completely unacceptable today, quite often was acceptable in the past.

There is a baseball (American sport) franchise located in Boston whose longtime owner was revered for all he did for the franchise and the community. He is directly responsible for over HALF A BILLION in grant money being awarded to non-profits throughout New England and Georgetown, South Carolina. The community even named a street after him. However, he was a genuine racist. And for that reason, and that reason only, just a couple years ago they removed all references to him including the street name.

So based on your earlier comments, people should be reminded about BOTH the good and the bad things he did ... right?

Same with General Lee?

Same with the at least dozen US Presidents who owned slaves, including revered ones such as Washington, Jefferson and Grant?




I don't feel as though I know enough about the Confederate statues and the issues surrounding them to give you a definite answer on that to be honest. I'd have to read more into it.

However, from what little I know on the subject, my general feeling on the matter as of now would be that, while I'm in favour of the removal of such flags and statues celebrating unrepentant racists (whether it was acceptable for the time or not), I would not be in favour of airbrushing these symbols from history. Children should be taught about the good and the bad. Teachers should never allow their own political or religious bias to influence their students. They should remain neutral and just stick to actual, historical facts and leave the children to make up their own minds. Obviously, while also teaching them that just because slavery and racism was deemed acceptable in the past, that does not mean that it's acceptable now.

As for the street name that was changed, again, I'm in favour of his name being removed. Regardless of the good that he did, he was still a bad person. By all means, educate on the good things he did but by removing his name from the street, it teaches kids that just because you do some good things, it doesn't give you the right to treat others badly.

So, in short, yes, I do believe that all sides should be represented and that good deeds by bad people should be highlighted. However, just because a person has helped some, it doesn't give them the right to say racist or hurtful things. And if they do say those things, then there are consequences.
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Reply #56 posted 01/11/20 4:55pm

jjhunsecker

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EmmaMcG said:

Pokeno4Money said:


Just curious, what was your stance on all the confederate-era statues that have been taken down and the confederate flags that have been banned? I agree with what you're saying about not censoring history. So why have the statues and other reminders of historic figures been removed because the person, despite the many great things they accomplished, also was racist during an era when racism was sadly acceptable? As JJ has often said, you need to take things in CONTEXT. What is completely unacceptable today, quite often was acceptable in the past.

There is a baseball (American sport) franchise located in Boston whose longtime owner was revered for all he did for the franchise and the community. He is directly responsible for over HALF A BILLION in grant money being awarded to non-profits throughout New England and Georgetown, South Carolina. The community even named a street after him. However, he was a genuine racist. And for that reason, and that reason only, just a couple years ago they removed all references to him including the street name.

So based on your earlier comments, people should be reminded about BOTH the good and the bad things he did ... right?

Same with General Lee?

Same with the at least dozen US Presidents who owned slaves, including revered ones such as Washington, Jefferson and Grant?


I don't feel as though I know enough about the Confederate statues and the issues surrounding them to give you a definite answer on that to be honest. I'd have to read more into it. However, from what little I know on the subject, my general feeling on the matter as of now would be that, while I'm in favour of the removal of such flags and statues celebrating unrepentant racists (whether it was acceptable for the time or not), I would not be in favour of airbrushing these symbols from history. Children should be taught about the good and the bad. Teachers should never allow their own political or religious bias to influence their students. They should remain neutral and just stick to actual, historical facts and leave the children to make up their own minds. Obviously, while also teaching them that just because slavery and racism was deemed acceptable in the past, that does not mean that it's acceptable now. As for the street name that was changed, again, I'm in favour of his name being removed. Regardless of the good that he did, he was still a bad person. By all means, educate on the good things he did but by removing his name from the street, it teaches kids that just because you do some good things, it doesn't give you the right to treat others badly. So, in short, yes, I do believe that all sides should be represented and that good deeds by bad people should be highlighted. However, just because a person has helped some, it doesn't give them the right to say racist or hurtful things. And if they do say those things, then there are consequences.

One thing you should know is that many of those Confederate statues were not put up right after the Civil War in the 1860s, but during the height of the Civil Rights Era in the 1960s ! The whole point was to intimidate Blacks in the South, and to let them know that White Supremacy would still rule...It would be like your German neighbor next door putting up a statue of Himmler and Goebbels and a Swastika

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Reply #57 posted 01/12/20 1:17am

EmmaMcG

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jjhunsecker said:



EmmaMcG said:


Pokeno4Money said:



Just curious, what was your stance on all the confederate-era statues that have been taken down and the confederate flags that have been banned? I agree with what you're saying about not censoring history. So why have the statues and other reminders of historic figures been removed because the person, despite the many great things they accomplished, also was racist during an era when racism was sadly acceptable? As JJ has often said, you need to take things in CONTEXT. What is completely unacceptable today, quite often was acceptable in the past.

There is a baseball (American sport) franchise located in Boston whose longtime owner was revered for all he did for the franchise and the community. He is directly responsible for over HALF A BILLION in grant money being awarded to non-profits throughout New England and Georgetown, South Carolina. The community even named a street after him. However, he was a genuine racist. And for that reason, and that reason only, just a couple years ago they removed all references to him including the street name.

So based on your earlier comments, people should be reminded about BOTH the good and the bad things he did ... right?

Same with General Lee?

Same with the at least dozen US Presidents who owned slaves, including revered ones such as Washington, Jefferson and Grant?




I don't feel as though I know enough about the Confederate statues and the issues surrounding them to give you a definite answer on that to be honest. I'd have to read more into it. However, from what little I know on the subject, my general feeling on the matter as of now would be that, while I'm in favour of the removal of such flags and statues celebrating unrepentant racists (whether it was acceptable for the time or not), I would not be in favour of airbrushing these symbols from history. Children should be taught about the good and the bad. Teachers should never allow their own political or religious bias to influence their students. They should remain neutral and just stick to actual, historical facts and leave the children to make up their own minds. Obviously, while also teaching them that just because slavery and racism was deemed acceptable in the past, that does not mean that it's acceptable now. As for the street name that was changed, again, I'm in favour of his name being removed. Regardless of the good that he did, he was still a bad person. By all means, educate on the good things he did but by removing his name from the street, it teaches kids that just because you do some good things, it doesn't give you the right to treat others badly. So, in short, yes, I do believe that all sides should be represented and that good deeds by bad people should be highlighted. However, just because a person has helped some, it doesn't give them the right to say racist or hurtful things. And if they do say those things, then there are consequences.


One thing you should know is that many of those Confederate statues were not put up right after the Civil War in the 1860s, but during the height of the Civil Rights Era in the 1960s ! The whole point was to intimidate Blacks in the South, and to let them know that White Supremacy would still rule...It would be like your German neighbor next door putting up a statue of Himmler and Goebbels and a Swastika



Well I was already in favour of the removal of such statues but if that's the case, then I'm definitely in favour of their removal.
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Reply #58 posted 01/12/20 9:12am

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

jjhunsecker said:

.... I sure as hell hope that you didn’t watch the Mark Twain Humor Prize Ceremony on PBS honoring Dave Chappelle... because he used that word at least 50 times!!! And it was fucking hilarious!!



I don't like the N word or any variants, but I'd like to see Chappelle's bit. I'll look it up.

Did he use that word because Mark Twain used it a lot in his books? I can see how the two things could be tied together by the right person.

But tell me what you think of this:

One of our charities collects books for school kids and then we distribute them throughout various elementary schools. Last month my wife and I were at a school distributing books, and one of the books was a collection of Mark Twain novels - including The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

I checked the book jacket and there was the word "unabridged". I figured that meant the books included N word and all, and I was right. So I took that book out of the stack and brought it home with me. I didn't want any elementary school kids reading it.

Do you think I did the right thing?

how very Mary Whitehouse of you... it was not your place to take something that was not yours.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #59 posted 01/12/20 9:18am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

One thing you should know is that many of those Confederate statues were not put up right after the Civil War in the 1860s, but during the height of the Civil Rights Era in the 1960s ! The whole point was to intimidate Blacks in the South, and to let them know that White Supremacy would still rule...It would be like your German neighbor next door putting up a statue of Himmler and Goebbels and a Swastika

I am not sure it was done to intimidate anyone...but yes Democrats should not have put them up. However, the process used to remove them (in some cases) was more like mob rule that rule of law.

it is pretty insulting to suggest that any person seeing one would be so weak of mind to be upset... I bet most people chearing these would have hardly noticed them much less known who most of them were... I would say taking down a statue of Robert E Lee is as justified as taking down one of any civil right leader.

When you cherry pick you may wonder why you are getting picked on.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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