benni said:

I've attempted suicide twice in my life. Once when I was 10 years old, I tried to drink bleach. The second time when I was 27 years old, I took an overdose of blood thinners. In both cases, I didn't announce that I was thinking about it, just had enough of everything I'd been going through and wanted it over. Bleach didn't work because it burned my eyes and nose and I kept watering it down. My life was painful enough at that time, I didn't want my death to be painful. The 2nd time, my ex husband knew something was wrong when I asked him to keep my son a few extra days. I didn't want my son to be the one to find me. My ex followed me home, pushed his way into my house behind me, asking me what was going on. He saw my medication bottle lying on the table and picked it up. It was empty. He had picked the medicine up for me two days earlier so he knew the bottle shouldn't be empty. He kept asking me what I did and I finally just told him I was tired of dealing with the health issues and I flushed them down the toilet. He picked me up and carried me to the car and took me straight to the hospital. Guess I wasn't a good liar.

My life has improved tremendously since those times. I haven't felt, or thought, that way since I was 27. I guess when it comes to mental pain, problems in life, I would say that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

When it comes to fatal illnesses, in which someone is going to waste away and suffer, I think it should be between that person and their doctor.

Glad you are still here Benni!

I too think it should be between the person and their doctor. I also think that hospice is a wonderful thing.

PennyPurple said:

benni said:

I've attempted suicide twice in my life. Once when I was 10 years old, I tried to drink bleach. The second time when I was 27 years old, I took an overdose of blood thinners. In both cases, I didn't announce that I was thinking about it, just had enough of everything I'd been going through and wanted it over. Bleach didn't work because it burned my eyes and nose and I kept watering it down. My life was painful enough at that time, I didn't want my death to be painful. The 2nd time, my ex husband knew something was wrong when I asked him to keep my son a few extra days. I didn't want my son to be the one to find me. My ex followed me home, pushed his way into my house behind me, asking me what was going on. He saw my medication bottle lying on the table and picked it up. It was empty. He had picked the medicine up for me two days earlier so he knew the bottle shouldn't be empty. He kept asking me what I did and I finally just told him I was tired of dealing with the health issues and I flushed them down the toilet. He picked me up and carried me to the car and took me straight to the hospital. Guess I wasn't a good liar.

My life has improved tremendously since those times. I haven't felt, or thought, that way since I was 27. I guess when it comes to mental pain, problems in life, I would say that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

When it comes to fatal illnesses, in which someone is going to waste away and suffer, I think it should be between that person and their doctor.

Glad you are still here Benni!

I too think it should be between the person and their doctor. I also think that hospice is a wonderful thing.

Me, too, Penny! Life wasn't easy back then, and to be honest, I am surprised I survived.

I've actually considered going back to work at hospice. I love what I'm doing right now, but hospice was a good place to work, somewhere that you really felt you were making a difference. I know I'm making a difference now, but the clientele has changed dramatically over the past few years, and I don't always feel like I'm reaching them.

benni said:

I disagree with this in a sense. When I had attempted suicide at 27, I knew there were those that loved me that would be hurt. I knew my son would be hurt. But the amount of pain I was experiencing at the time (dealing with my childhood) was so deep, so entrenched into my very soul. that I couldn't see a way past it and I was afraid that me staying here was hurting those I loved even more than what my passing would have done.

Today, I'm glad my ex was there and realized what was going on. But at the time, that pain was real and it was real deep, and I could not find a light shining anywhere to pull me out of it. My son was normally able to snap me out of my depression and my PTSD when it was active, but during that one time frame, not even he could reach me. But it didn't mean that I didn't know he loved me and would be hurt, I was just afraid I was causing him more pain by living.

Very true, each person's mind is unique in how they view people and situations. It's never one size fits all. Glad you were able to get through that period in your life and see things in a different light.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

That's a great way of putting it, hopefully it sinks in for those who are on the edge.

benni said:

Pokeno4Money said:

I'm very sorry to hear about what you've had to deal with over the years.

You're 100% correct about lifelong damage, especially to those who discover the body.

While it's impossible to ever know what they were thinking that led to the suicide, I do believe many would NOT do it because they'd realize at least one person loves them and doesn't want to lose them. Quite often those who kill themselves believe nobody cares about them, so they don't think anybody will be hurt by their actions.

The really sad thing about it all are those who think for a brief moment that life isn't worth living. If they can just survive the one night of depression, they are fine.

That happened with a relative of mine. She was so depressed about a situation she never should have been in, that she didn't want to go on. But she got through it, and 5 years later she is happy and enjoying life.

I disagree with this in a sense. When I had attempted suicide at 27, I knew there were those that loved me that would be hurt. I knew my son would be hurt. But the amount of pain I was experiencing at the time (dealing with my childhood) was so deep, so entrenched into my very soul. that I couldn't see a way past it and I was afraid that me staying here was hurting those I loved even more than what my passing would have done.

Today, I'm glad my ex was there and realized what was going on. But at the time, that pain was real and it was real deep, and I could not find a light shining anywhere to pull me out of it. My son was normally able to snap me out of my depression and my PTSD when it was active, but during that one time frame, not even he could reach me. But it didn't mean that I didn't know he loved me and would be hurt, I was just afraid I was causing him more pain by living.

.

So glad you survived the childhood sexual abuse and survived and are moving on from the impacts of dealing with this.

.

The higher suicide rates of people sexually abused as children is lifelong and the barriers we learned to put up as children can make it hard to be open enough to those that love us to help us. Decades after the abuse the court case and Royal Commission on the institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse that I was involved with opened old wounds.

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

.

I know it is Australian but their is good information on suicide prevention from the lifeline site:

.

https://www.lifeline.org....ng-suicide

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

Oh no. I'm sorry to hear that.

IanRG said:

benni said:

I disagree with this in a sense. When I had attempted suicide at 27, I knew there were those that loved me that would be hurt. I knew my son would be hurt. But the amount of pain I was experiencing at the time (dealing with my childhood) was so deep, so entrenched into my very soul. that I couldn't see a way past it and I was afraid that me staying here was hurting those I loved even more than what my passing would have done.

Today, I'm glad my ex was there and realized what was going on. But at the time, that pain was real and it was real deep, and I could not find a light shining anywhere to pull me out of it. My son was normally able to snap me out of my depression and my PTSD when it was active, but during that one time frame, not even he could reach me. But it didn't mean that I didn't know he loved me and would be hurt, I was just afraid I was causing him more pain by living.

.

So glad you survived the childhood sexual abuse and survived and are moving on from the impacts of dealing with this.

.

The higher suicide rates of people sexually abused as children is lifelong and the barriers we learned to put up as children can make it hard to be open enough to those that love us to help us. Decades after the abuse the court case and Royal Commission on the institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse that I was involved with opened old wounds.

The suicide rate for survivors is extremely high. But it's because that abuse comes with a lot of baggage, and as you said, the barriers we put up. We were taught not to trust, especially our own feelings, or to trust anyone with our feelings, so it is extremely hard to open up when we're dealing with things. Not to mention the PTSD and reliving it for many years after the fact.

I'm sorry that you had to go through what you did and relive it with the court case. How did it turn out? I don't know if I ever asked you about that. But if you ever need to talk, Ian, I'm just a message away.

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

1. Don't be afraid to ask if your friend is thinking about suicide. There is this old myth that says you don't want to mention suicide to someone who may be thinking about it, for fear of pushing them over the edge. But that is just a myth. Most people want someone to ask them, "Hey, I've noticed you seem really down and you've got a lot on you right now. Are you okay?" Let them respond, and if they seem really deep in their depression, ask them, "Are you thinking about suicide?'

2. If they answer that they are thinking about suicde, ask, "Have you thought about how you would do it?" The reason you ask this question is because you want to know, to find out, whether they have a plan. If they have a plan, if they've thought about how they would do it, then it's advanced beyond just the normal passing thought of, "I ought to just kill myself."

3. If it has advanced to planning to stage, then you need to find out how accessible the plan is. For instance, "I thought I would shoot myself." You would need to ask, "Do you have a gun?" Or, "I thought I would take an overdose of sleeping pills." Ask: "Do you have sleeping pills?" IF they have immediate accessibility to whatever they might use to commit suicide, then you need to remove that accessible item until they can get past the immediate danger they might in.

4. Develop an Emergency Plan and a Suicide prevention Contract: You need to get a verbal (or written) contract that states they will not harm themselves. Establish a plan for them on what they would do before making an attempt. For example: "I promise that I will not harm myself. If I feel that I am preparing to harm myself, I promise to do the following first: 1. Call Maplenpg and let her know that I am not in a good space. Maplenpg will talk with me on the phone or come visit (whichever the two of you agree on) 2. Let Maplenpg keep my sleeping pills, and only give me one when she is with me at night and can watch me take it. (Or let Maplenpg keep my gun and ammo with her until I am passed the dangerous phase.) 3. I will call the Suicide hotline and talk to them when things get really bad. 4. I will go to the local emergency department if I am unable to reach Maplenpg and I don't feel as though the suicide hotline has helped me."

The reason for the contract is because many people that are thinking about suicide, have a plan, and have the means to carry it out, will not carry it out if they have made a promise to someone. They will feel as though they've let that person down and that will weigh heavy on them. It also lets them know that someone cares enough to want to be there for them, even when things get really bad for them. Just knowing there is one person that cares is sometimes enough.

5. If you believe your friend is at risk, that with everything else you did that it was not enough to get her past the critical phase, then you would need to call the police or take her to the emergency room.

One final point, 95% of people that talk about suicide are really crying out for help, they want intervention. But keep in mind, 5% of people are serious about. The 5% that are serious about will not state they are suicidal. You may know that they were going through a period of deep depression, and then one day, suddenly, they seem happy. (And it will be a sudden thing.) They may start giving away items, tell you that they are just cleaning out some junk, but they are very particular about who gets what item. The reason for the sudden change is that they have made up their mind to move forward with suicide. They have a plan, they have the means, and it is immediately accessible to them. They may even have picked out a date. They seem suddenly happier because it's a relief to them, they feel that there is an end to whatever has brought them to that point, and that they will no longer suffer. It's just a relief. It's the ones that don't tell you that they are thinking about suicide, but that you know are extremely depressed, who suddenly seem happy that are most often the ones that we say, "I never saw it coming." But, we do see it coming, because they do give signs (the giving things away, etc). As for the other 95%, as I said, they are really crying out for help. but if they don't feel they've gotten that help, or if they don't feel it was adequate, they may make an attemp. Unfortunately, sometimes, it doesn't go the way they think it will ("Jerry will come home and find me and get me to the hospital in time.") and they end up being successful "accidentally".

But the main point is, don't be afraid to talk with them about suicide. Sometimes, it's just a relief to have someone ask and being able to talk about their feelings.

IanRG said:

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

.

I know it is Australian but their is good information on suicide prevention from the lifeline site:

.

https://www.lifeline.org....ng-suicide

Thanks Ian - actually it was quite reassuring that we are doing many of the things listed in the site already.

benni said:

IanRG said:

.

So glad you survived the childhood sexual abuse and survived and are moving on from the impacts of dealing with this.

.

The higher suicide rates of people sexually abused as children is lifelong and the barriers we learned to put up as children can make it hard to be open enough to those that love us to help us. Decades after the abuse the court case and Royal Commission on the institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse that I was involved with opened old wounds.

The suicide rate for survivors is extremely high. But it's because that abuse comes with a lot of baggage, and as you said, the barriers we put up. We were taught not to trust, especially our own feelings, or to trust anyone with our feelings, so it is extremely hard to open up when we're dealing with things. Not to mention the PTSD and reliving it for many years after the fact.

I'm sorry that you had to go through what you did and relive it with the court case. How did it turn out? I don't know if I ever asked you about that. But if you ever need to talk, Ian, I'm just a message away.

.

The court case was successful and he is in gaol for what he did to 19 children through his voluntary roles in the Anglican Church and orphanage. He was further charged for what he did to more children, including those through the Baptist Church. Unfortunately the Priest who was the paediphile ring leader and recruited the person who abused me died before he could face justice (at least on Earth). Other than reliving this through the police investigation, court preparation and the court hearing, the worst part of this was to find out that my childhood best friend was also a survivor - showing how effective abusers can be in isolating their victims even from each other and why it can be hard to help survivors if they become suicidal.

.

The Bishop who covered up the abuse of me and others lied to the Royal Commission and was called on this in the Commission's finding. He is yet to face any charges. The next Bishop was on a path to be a candidate to be put to the Queen to be Archbishop of Canterbury but a member of our local Synod at his time in our diocese was later on General Synod when this Bishop's name came up. This Bishop had covered up the abuse of that Synod member's daughter, so he was quietly removed from consideration. Following the Royal Commission, this Bishop was removed from his role as an Archbishop. He is also yet to face any charges. The key enabler of the local Anglican ring, the Dean of the local cathedral has been charged for the abuse he personally did, but not for protecting and encouraging the paediphile ring.

PennyPurple said:

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

Oh no. I'm sorry to hear that.

Thank you Penny

[Edited 12/5/19 23:12pm]

benni said:

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help .

1. Don't be afraid to ask if your friend is thinking about suicide. There is this old myth that says you don't want to mention suicide to someone who may be thinking about it, for fear of pushing them over the edge. But that is just a myth. Most people want someone to ask them, "Hey, I've noticed you seem really down and you've got a lot on you right now. Are you okay?" Let them respond, and if they seem really deep in their depression, ask them, "Are you thinking about suicide?'

2. If they answer that they are thinking about suicde, ask, "Have you thought about how you would do it?" The reason you ask this question is because you want to know, to find out, whether they have a plan. If they have a plan, if they've thought about how they would do it, then it's advanced beyond just the normal passing thought of, "I ought to just kill myself."

3. If it has advanced to planning to stage, then you need to find out how accessible the plan is. For instance, "I thought I would shoot myself." You would need to ask, "Do you have a gun?" Or, "I thought I would take an overdose of sleeping pills." Ask: "Do you have sleeping pills?" IF they have immediate accessibility to whatever they might use to commit suicide, then you need to remove that accessible item until they can get past the immediate danger they might in.

4. Develop an Emergency Plan and a Suicide prevention Contract: You need to get a verbal (or written) contract that states they will not harm themselves. Establish a plan for them on what they would do before making an attempt. For example: "I promise that I will not harm myself. If I feel that I am preparing to harm myself, I promise to do the following first: 1. Call Maplenpg and let her know that I am not in a good space. Maplenpg will talk with me on the phone or come visit (whichever the two of you agree on) 2. Let Maplenpg keep my sleeping pills, and only give me one when she is with me at night and can watch me take it. (Or let Maplenpg keep my gun and ammo with her until I am passed the dangerous phase.) 3. I will call the Suicide hotline and talk to them when things get really bad. 4. I will go to the local emergency department if I am unable to reach Maplenpg and I don't feel as though the suicide hotline has helped me."

The reason for the contract is because many people that are thinking about suicide, have a plan, and have the means to carry it out, will not carry it out if they have made a promise to someone. They will feel as though they've let that person down and that will weigh heavy on them. It also lets them know that someone cares enough to want to be there for them, even when things get really bad for them. Just knowing there is one person that cares is sometimes enough.

5. If you believe your friend is at risk, that with everything else you did that it was not enough to get her past the critical phase, then you would need to call the police or take her to the emergency room.

One final point, 95% of people that talk about suicide are really crying out for help, they want intervention. But keep in mind, 5% of people are serious about. The 5% that are serious about will not state they are suicidal. You may know that they were going through a period of deep depression, and then one day, suddenly, they seem happy. (And it will be a sudden thing.) They may start giving away items, tell you that they are just cleaning out some junk, but they are very particular about who gets what item. The reason for the sudden change is that they have made up their mind to move forward with suicide. They have a plan, they have the means, and it is immediately accessible to them. They may even have picked out a date. They seem suddenly happier because it's a relief to them, they feel that there is an end to whatever has brought them to that point, and that they will no longer suffer. It's just a relief. It's the ones that don't tell you that they are thinking about suicide, but that you know are extremely depressed, who suddenly seem happy that are most often the ones that we say, "I never saw it coming." But, we do see it coming, because they do give signs (the giving things away, etc). As for the other 95%, as I said, they are really crying out for help. but if they don't feel they've gotten that help, or if they don't feel it was adequate, they may make an attemp. Unfortunately, sometimes, it doesn't go the way they think it will ("Jerry will come home and find me and get me to the hospital in time.") and they end up being successful "accidentally".

But the main point is, don't be afraid to talk with them about suicide. Sometimes, it's just a relief to have someone ask and being able to talk about their feelings.

Thank you Benni - as with Ian, it's a relief that we are doing many of these things already, especially talking about suicide, which I'm sure helps. I don't want to give out too much information on here about the details (gosh I'm paranoid - as if anyone I know reads Prince.org P&R), but I will take on board all of your points to make sure we continue to do the best we can.