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Reply #60 posted 11/30/19 7:06pm

PennyPurple

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benni said:

I've attempted suicide twice in my life. Once when I was 10 years old, I tried to drink bleach. The second time when I was 27 years old, I took an overdose of blood thinners. In both cases, I didn't announce that I was thinking about it, just had enough of everything I'd been going through and wanted it over. Bleach didn't work because it burned my eyes and nose and I kept watering it down. My life was painful enough at that time, I didn't want my death to be painful. The 2nd time, my ex husband knew something was wrong when I asked him to keep my son a few extra days. I didn't want my son to be the one to find me. My ex followed me home, pushed his way into my house behind me, asking me what was going on. He saw my medication bottle lying on the table and picked it up. It was empty. He had picked the medicine up for me two days earlier so he knew the bottle shouldn't be empty. He kept asking me what I did and I finally just told him I was tired of dealing with the health issues and I flushed them down the toilet. He picked me up and carried me to the car and took me straight to the hospital. Guess I wasn't a good liar.

My life has improved tremendously since those times. I haven't felt, or thought, that way since I was 27. I guess when it comes to mental pain, problems in life, I would say that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

When it comes to fatal illnesses, in which someone is going to waste away and suffer, I think it should be between that person and their doctor.

Glad you are still here Benni!


I too think it should be between the person and their doctor. I also think that hospice is a wonderful thing.

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Reply #61 posted 11/30/19 7:23pm

benni

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PennyPurple said:

benni said:

I've attempted suicide twice in my life. Once when I was 10 years old, I tried to drink bleach. The second time when I was 27 years old, I took an overdose of blood thinners. In both cases, I didn't announce that I was thinking about it, just had enough of everything I'd been going through and wanted it over. Bleach didn't work because it burned my eyes and nose and I kept watering it down. My life was painful enough at that time, I didn't want my death to be painful. The 2nd time, my ex husband knew something was wrong when I asked him to keep my son a few extra days. I didn't want my son to be the one to find me. My ex followed me home, pushed his way into my house behind me, asking me what was going on. He saw my medication bottle lying on the table and picked it up. It was empty. He had picked the medicine up for me two days earlier so he knew the bottle shouldn't be empty. He kept asking me what I did and I finally just told him I was tired of dealing with the health issues and I flushed them down the toilet. He picked me up and carried me to the car and took me straight to the hospital. Guess I wasn't a good liar.

My life has improved tremendously since those times. I haven't felt, or thought, that way since I was 27. I guess when it comes to mental pain, problems in life, I would say that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

When it comes to fatal illnesses, in which someone is going to waste away and suffer, I think it should be between that person and their doctor.

Glad you are still here Benni!


I too think it should be between the person and their doctor. I also think that hospice is a wonderful thing.


Me, too, Penny! Life wasn't easy back then, and to be honest, I am surprised I survived.

I've actually considered going back to work at hospice. I love what I'm doing right now, but hospice was a good place to work, somewhere that you really felt you were making a difference. I know I'm making a difference now, but the clientele has changed dramatically over the past few years, and I don't always feel like I'm reaching them.

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Reply #62 posted 12/01/19 9:09pm

Pokeno4Money

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benni said:

I disagree with this in a sense. When I had attempted suicide at 27, I knew there were those that loved me that would be hurt. I knew my son would be hurt. But the amount of pain I was experiencing at the time (dealing with my childhood) was so deep, so entrenched into my very soul. that I couldn't see a way past it and I was afraid that me staying here was hurting those I loved even more than what my passing would have done.

Today, I'm glad my ex was there and realized what was going on. But at the time, that pain was real and it was real deep, and I could not find a light shining anywhere to pull me out of it. My son was normally able to snap me out of my depression and my PTSD when it was active, but during that one time frame, not even he could reach me. But it didn't mean that I didn't know he loved me and would be hurt, I was just afraid I was causing him more pain by living.


Very true, each person's mind is unique in how they view people and situations. It's never one size fits all. Glad you were able to get through that period in your life and see things in a different light.

"Jussie Smollett wanted to become the Rosa Parks of Gay Black Men, but instead he became the Rosie Ruiz."

https://nypost.com/2019/0...a-is-long/
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Reply #63 posted 12/02/19 4:14am

ThatWhiteDude

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PennyPurple said:

37 years ago today, I lost my beautiful, loving, 62 year grandma to suicide by gun.



5 years ago Dec. 3, I lost my 50 year old step brother to suicide by gun.



25 years ago April 6, I lost my 28 year old step brother to suicide by gun.



I hate, literally hate suicide.



The damage it does to the ones left behind lasts the rest of our lives.

I often wonder if these people knew the damage that their suicide caused to the ones left behind, if they'd actually do it.



Illness was not the cause of any of the above deaths.


Jesus Penny, I'm so sorry for these losses. I can't even imagine what you've been through.
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #64 posted 12/02/19 4:46am

ThatWhiteDude

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I'm lucky I've never lost anyone to suicide. There was a family friend but I was too young back then. But there was one case in my hometown this year that was really shocking. I mean, everyone in town knew about it. Because a 26 year old man stood on a construction crane. But he didn't jump right away, he was up there for 11 hours. What shocked me the most was that some people went there on purpose just to see the man up there. Like, why the fuck would you want to see that? Jesus, some people. The man died but no one knows if he jumped or if he fell, since people who were there said the Crain started to move and then he "fell".

The saddest part was that his sister was there, trying to get him down. I've got two siblings and just the thought of losing one of them in such a way makes me sick to the stomach.


So my thoughts about suicide are that it's not a solution (I'm not talking about people with cancer or something) I know some would argue that emotional pain can be as bad as physical pain, but depression is not like cancer. Yes it's bad but therapy can help. Look, I've got nerve damage for almost three years now and I've yet to find a therapy. Sometimes I lay in bed all day cause it's so bad. And I suffer from panic attacks and this summer was hell cause my doctor wanted me to take a higher dosage of the pills I had. This made my panic attacks way worse to a point were I could not eat or drink, it felt like my body was shutting down. It was the lowest I've ever been. But I got through it, yeah there was a point were I wanted to smash my head on the wall but I got through it. And sometimes people think they can't do that, but it can work, it really can. I know exactly how mental illness can affect a person, and I know a whole lot about chronic pain too. But there's always more ways to go than just one. Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

I know I won't suffer from the panic attacks forever, I'm working on it daily, hell I've got a therapist and a coach, I'll fight with everything I've got to never experience the shit I've been through this summer. I know I can go back to the point were I didn't have these attacks. I wasn't born with this, they been triggert by a trauma.


Another story was a girl I knew from FB, she was my age, lost her mom to a stroke. A few days after that, she said goodbye to all of us on FB. The post was over an hour ago when I first saw it and I though it was too late, but then I got my shit together and asked another friend of her if she knows anything. We both found her Boyfriend and told him what happened. He called the cops and they found her in her room. She lived and she was so thankful. Honestly I thought she'd be pissed. But she was grateful. She found a job as a babysitter a few months later and was very happy.
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #65 posted 12/03/19 11:01am

Pokeno4Money

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ThatWhiteDude said:

Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.


That's a great way of putting it, hopefully it sinks in for those who are on the edge.

"Jussie Smollett wanted to become the Rosa Parks of Gay Black Men, but instead he became the Rosie Ruiz."

https://nypost.com/2019/0...a-is-long/
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Reply #66 posted 12/03/19 1:36pm

IanRG

benni said:

Pokeno4Money said:


I'm very sorry to hear about what you've had to deal with over the years.

You're 100% correct about lifelong damage, especially to those who discover the body.

While it's impossible to ever know what they were thinking that led to the suicide, I do believe many would NOT do it because they'd realize at least one person loves them and doesn't want to lose them. Quite often those who kill themselves believe nobody cares about them, so they don't think anybody will be hurt by their actions.

The really sad thing about it all are those who think for a brief moment that life isn't worth living. If they can just survive the one night of depression, they are fine.

That happened with a relative of mine. She was so depressed about a situation she never should have been in, that she didn't want to go on. But she got through it, and 5 years later she is happy and enjoying life.







I disagree with this in a sense. When I had attempted suicide at 27, I knew there were those that loved me that would be hurt. I knew my son would be hurt. But the amount of pain I was experiencing at the time (dealing with my childhood) was so deep, so entrenched into my very soul. that I couldn't see a way past it and I was afraid that me staying here was hurting those I loved even more than what my passing would have done.

Today, I'm glad my ex was there and realized what was going on. But at the time, that pain was real and it was real deep, and I could not find a light shining anywhere to pull me out of it. My son was normally able to snap me out of my depression and my PTSD when it was active, but during that one time frame, not even he could reach me. But it didn't mean that I didn't know he loved me and would be hurt, I was just afraid I was causing him more pain by living.

.

So glad you survived the childhood sexual abuse and survived and are moving on from the impacts of dealing with this.

.

The higher suicide rates of people sexually abused as children is lifelong and the barriers we learned to put up as children can make it hard to be open enough to those that love us to help us. Decades after the abuse the court case and Royal Commission on the institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse that I was involved with opened old wounds.

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Reply #67 posted 12/05/19 9:17am

maplenpg

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My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #68 posted 12/05/19 11:20am

IanRG

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.

.

I know it is Australian but their is good information on suicide prevention from the lifeline site:

.

https://www.lifeline.org....ng-suicide

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Reply #69 posted 12/05/19 4:45pm

PennyPurple

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maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.

Oh no. I'm sorry to hear that.

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Reply #70 posted 12/05/19 9:35pm

benni

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IanRG said:

benni said:



I disagree with this in a sense. When I had attempted suicide at 27, I knew there were those that loved me that would be hurt. I knew my son would be hurt. But the amount of pain I was experiencing at the time (dealing with my childhood) was so deep, so entrenched into my very soul. that I couldn't see a way past it and I was afraid that me staying here was hurting those I loved even more than what my passing would have done.

Today, I'm glad my ex was there and realized what was going on. But at the time, that pain was real and it was real deep, and I could not find a light shining anywhere to pull me out of it. My son was normally able to snap me out of my depression and my PTSD when it was active, but during that one time frame, not even he could reach me. But it didn't mean that I didn't know he loved me and would be hurt, I was just afraid I was causing him more pain by living.

.

So glad you survived the childhood sexual abuse and survived and are moving on from the impacts of dealing with this.

.

The higher suicide rates of people sexually abused as children is lifelong and the barriers we learned to put up as children can make it hard to be open enough to those that love us to help us. Decades after the abuse the court case and Royal Commission on the institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse that I was involved with opened old wounds.



The suicide rate for survivors is extremely high. But it's because that abuse comes with a lot of baggage, and as you said, the barriers we put up. We were taught not to trust, especially our own feelings, or to trust anyone with our feelings, so it is extremely hard to open up when we're dealing with things. Not to mention the PTSD and reliving it for many years after the fact.

I'm sorry that you had to go through what you did and relive it with the court case. How did it turn out? I don't know if I ever asked you about that. But if you ever need to talk, Ian, I'm just a message away.

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Reply #71 posted 12/05/19 10:02pm

benni

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maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.


1. Don't be afraid to ask if your friend is thinking about suicide. There is this old myth that says you don't want to mention suicide to someone who may be thinking about it, for fear of pushing them over the edge. But that is just a myth. Most people want someone to ask them, "Hey, I've noticed you seem really down and you've got a lot on you right now. Are you okay?" Let them respond, and if they seem really deep in their depression, ask them, "Are you thinking about suicide?'

2. If they answer that they are thinking about suicde, ask, "Have you thought about how you would do it?" The reason you ask this question is because you want to know, to find out, whether they have a plan. If they have a plan, if they've thought about how they would do it, then it's advanced beyond just the normal passing thought of, "I ought to just kill myself."

3. If it has advanced to planning to stage, then you need to find out how accessible the plan is. For instance, "I thought I would shoot myself." You would need to ask, "Do you have a gun?" Or, "I thought I would take an overdose of sleeping pills." Ask: "Do you have sleeping pills?" IF they have immediate accessibility to whatever they might use to commit suicide, then you need to remove that accessible item until they can get past the immediate danger they might in.

4. Develop an Emergency Plan and a Suicide prevention Contract: You need to get a verbal (or written) contract that states they will not harm themselves. Establish a plan for them on what they would do before making an attempt. For example: "I promise that I will not harm myself. If I feel that I am preparing to harm myself, I promise to do the following first: 1. Call Maplenpg and let her know that I am not in a good space. Maplenpg will talk with me on the phone or come visit (whichever the two of you agree on) 2. Let Maplenpg keep my sleeping pills, and only give me one when she is with me at night and can watch me take it. (Or let Maplenpg keep my gun and ammo with her until I am passed the dangerous phase.) 3. I will call the Suicide hotline and talk to them when things get really bad. 4. I will go to the local emergency department if I am unable to reach Maplenpg and I don't feel as though the suicide hotline has helped me."

The reason for the contract is because many people that are thinking about suicide, have a plan, and have the means to carry it out, will not carry it out if they have made a promise to someone. They will feel as though they've let that person down and that will weigh heavy on them. It also lets them know that someone cares enough to want to be there for them, even when things get really bad for them. Just knowing there is one person that cares is sometimes enough.

5. If you believe your friend is at risk, that with everything else you did that it was not enough to get her past the critical phase, then you would need to call the police or take her to the emergency room.

One final point, 95% of people that talk about suicide are really crying out for help, they want intervention. But keep in mind, 5% of people are serious about. The 5% that are serious about will not state they are suicidal. You may know that they were going through a period of deep depression, and then one day, suddenly, they seem happy. (And it will be a sudden thing.) They may start giving away items, tell you that they are just cleaning out some junk, but they are very particular about who gets what item. The reason for the sudden change is that they have made up their mind to move forward with suicide. They have a plan, they have the means, and it is immediately accessible to them. They may even have picked out a date. They seem suddenly happier because it's a relief to them, they feel that there is an end to whatever has brought them to that point, and that they will no longer suffer. It's just a relief. It's the ones that don't tell you that they are thinking about suicide, but that you know are extremely depressed, who suddenly seem happy that are most often the ones that we say, "I never saw it coming." But, we do see it coming, because they do give signs (the giving things away, etc). As for the other 95%, as I said, they are really crying out for help. but if they don't feel they've gotten that help, or if they don't feel it was adequate, they may make an attemp. Unfortunately, sometimes, it doesn't go the way they think it will ("Jerry will come home and find me and get me to the hospital in time.") and they end up being successful "accidentally".

But the main point is, don't be afraid to talk with them about suicide. Sometimes, it's just a relief to have someone ask and being able to talk about their feelings.

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Reply #72 posted 12/05/19 11:04pm

maplenpg

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IanRG said:

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.

.

I know it is Australian but their is good information on suicide prevention from the lifeline site:

.

https://www.lifeline.org....ng-suicide

Thanks Ian - actually it was quite reassuring that we are doing many of the things listed in the site already.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #73 posted 12/05/19 11:07pm

IanRG

benni said:

IanRG said:

.

So glad you survived the childhood sexual abuse and survived and are moving on from the impacts of dealing with this.

.

The higher suicide rates of people sexually abused as children is lifelong and the barriers we learned to put up as children can make it hard to be open enough to those that love us to help us. Decades after the abuse the court case and Royal Commission on the institutional responses to childhood sexual abuse that I was involved with opened old wounds.



The suicide rate for survivors is extremely high. But it's because that abuse comes with a lot of baggage, and as you said, the barriers we put up. We were taught not to trust, especially our own feelings, or to trust anyone with our feelings, so it is extremely hard to open up when we're dealing with things. Not to mention the PTSD and reliving it for many years after the fact.

I'm sorry that you had to go through what you did and relive it with the court case. How did it turn out? I don't know if I ever asked you about that. But if you ever need to talk, Ian, I'm just a message away.

.

The court case was successful and he is in gaol for what he did to 19 children through his voluntary roles in the Anglican Church and orphanage. He was further charged for what he did to more children, including those through the Baptist Church. Unfortunately the Priest who was the paediphile ring leader and recruited the person who abused me died before he could face justice (at least on Earth). Other than reliving this through the police investigation, court preparation and the court hearing, the worst part of this was to find out that my childhood best friend was also a survivor - showing how effective abusers can be in isolating their victims even from each other and why it can be hard to help survivors if they become suicidal.

.

The Bishop who covered up the abuse of me and others lied to the Royal Commission and was called on this in the Commission's finding. He is yet to face any charges. The next Bishop was on a path to be a candidate to be put to the Queen to be Archbishop of Canterbury but a member of our local Synod at his time in our diocese was later on General Synod when this Bishop's name came up. This Bishop had covered up the abuse of that Synod member's daughter, so he was quietly removed from consideration. Following the Royal Commission, this Bishop was removed from his role as an Archbishop. He is also yet to face any charges. The key enabler of the local Anglican ring, the Dean of the local cathedral has been charged for the abuse he personally did, but not for protecting and encouraging the paediphile ring.

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Reply #74 posted 12/05/19 11:12pm

maplenpg

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PennyPurple said:

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.

Oh no. I'm sorry to hear that.

Thank you Penny hug

[Edited 12/5/19 23:12pm]

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #75 posted 12/05/19 11:17pm

maplenpg

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benni said:

maplenpg said:

My friend is in a bad way. I don't know to help sad.


1. Don't be afraid to ask if your friend is thinking about suicide. There is this old myth that says you don't want to mention suicide to someone who may be thinking about it, for fear of pushing them over the edge. But that is just a myth. Most people want someone to ask them, "Hey, I've noticed you seem really down and you've got a lot on you right now. Are you okay?" Let them respond, and if they seem really deep in their depression, ask them, "Are you thinking about suicide?'

2. If they answer that they are thinking about suicde, ask, "Have you thought about how you would do it?" The reason you ask this question is because you want to know, to find out, whether they have a plan. If they have a plan, if they've thought about how they would do it, then it's advanced beyond just the normal passing thought of, "I ought to just kill myself."

3. If it has advanced to planning to stage, then you need to find out how accessible the plan is. For instance, "I thought I would shoot myself." You would need to ask, "Do you have a gun?" Or, "I thought I would take an overdose of sleeping pills." Ask: "Do you have sleeping pills?" IF they have immediate accessibility to whatever they might use to commit suicide, then you need to remove that accessible item until they can get past the immediate danger they might in.

4. Develop an Emergency Plan and a Suicide prevention Contract: You need to get a verbal (or written) contract that states they will not harm themselves. Establish a plan for them on what they would do before making an attempt. For example: "I promise that I will not harm myself. If I feel that I am preparing to harm myself, I promise to do the following first: 1. Call Maplenpg and let her know that I am not in a good space. Maplenpg will talk with me on the phone or come visit (whichever the two of you agree on) 2. Let Maplenpg keep my sleeping pills, and only give me one when she is with me at night and can watch me take it. (Or let Maplenpg keep my gun and ammo with her until I am passed the dangerous phase.) 3. I will call the Suicide hotline and talk to them when things get really bad. 4. I will go to the local emergency department if I am unable to reach Maplenpg and I don't feel as though the suicide hotline has helped me."

The reason for the contract is because many people that are thinking about suicide, have a plan, and have the means to carry it out, will not carry it out if they have made a promise to someone. They will feel as though they've let that person down and that will weigh heavy on them. It also lets them know that someone cares enough to want to be there for them, even when things get really bad for them. Just knowing there is one person that cares is sometimes enough.

5. If you believe your friend is at risk, that with everything else you did that it was not enough to get her past the critical phase, then you would need to call the police or take her to the emergency room.

One final point, 95% of people that talk about suicide are really crying out for help, they want intervention. But keep in mind, 5% of people are serious about. The 5% that are serious about will not state they are suicidal. You may know that they were going through a period of deep depression, and then one day, suddenly, they seem happy. (And it will be a sudden thing.) They may start giving away items, tell you that they are just cleaning out some junk, but they are very particular about who gets what item. The reason for the sudden change is that they have made up their mind to move forward with suicide. They have a plan, they have the means, and it is immediately accessible to them. They may even have picked out a date. They seem suddenly happier because it's a relief to them, they feel that there is an end to whatever has brought them to that point, and that they will no longer suffer. It's just a relief. It's the ones that don't tell you that they are thinking about suicide, but that you know are extremely depressed, who suddenly seem happy that are most often the ones that we say, "I never saw it coming." But, we do see it coming, because they do give signs (the giving things away, etc). As for the other 95%, as I said, they are really crying out for help. but if they don't feel they've gotten that help, or if they don't feel it was adequate, they may make an attemp. Unfortunately, sometimes, it doesn't go the way they think it will ("Jerry will come home and find me and get me to the hospital in time.") and they end up being successful "accidentally".

But the main point is, don't be afraid to talk with them about suicide. Sometimes, it's just a relief to have someone ask and being able to talk about their feelings.

Thank you Benni - as with Ian, it's a relief that we are doing many of these things already, especially talking about suicide, which I'm sure helps. I don't want to give out too much information on here about the details (gosh I'm paranoid - as if anyone I know reads Prince.org P&R), but I will take on board all of your points to make sure we continue to do the best we can.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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