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Thread started 11/19/19 6:20am

djThunderfunk

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Sweden drops rape charge against Assange

The rape charges against Julian Assange in Sweden have been dropped!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/...s-20914501



Now we can focus on the fact that Assange is a whistleblower and his activities with Wikileaks should be protected as such.


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Reply #1 posted 11/19/19 6:43am

BombSquad

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Now we can focus on the fact that Assange is a whistleblower and his activities with Wikileaks should be protected as such.

here we agree

Ideally speaking, the President of the United States and the dumbest person in the country would be two different people. Oh well.... money can't fix stupid
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Reply #2 posted 11/19/19 7:00am

djThunderfunk

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WOW! I find that shocking, but... AWESOME! thumbs up!

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Reply #3 posted 11/19/19 8:15am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Good. I don't know the fine details on the allegations, but just from the news blurbs about the case, it sounded like a sad setup to get at Assange.

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Reply #4 posted 11/19/19 11:53am

poppys

Doesn't mean he didn't do it. Only that the charges were dropped. We went over this extensively in the last Assange thread.

Sweden’s Deputy Chief Prosecutor Eva-Marie Persson made the announcement Tuesday as she gave an update on the case. The statement said the evidence for the 2010 rape allegation has “weakened considerably” due to the long period of time that has elapsed since it the event.

“I would like to emphasize that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events. Her statements have been coherent, extensive, and detailed; however, my overall assessment is that the evidential situation has been weakened to such an extent that that there is no longer any reason to continue the investigation,” said Persson.

Assange has always denied the accusation. He avoided extradition to Sweden for seven years by hiding in the Ecuadorean embassy in London, but he was evicted in April and sentenced to 50 weeks in jail for breaching his bail conditions.

Read it at BBC News

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Reply #5 posted 11/19/19 1:45pm

IanRG

poppys said:

Doesn't mean he didn't do it. Only that the charges were dropped. We went over this extensively in the last Assange thread.

Sweden’s Deputy Chief Prosecutor Eva-Marie Persson made the announcement Tuesday as she gave an update on the case. The statement said the evidence for the 2010 rape allegation has “weakened considerably” due to the long period of time that has elapsed since it the event.

“I would like to emphasize that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events. Her statements have been coherent, extensive, and detailed; however, my overall assessment is that the evidential situation has been weakened to such an extent that that there is no longer any reason to continue the investigation,” said Persson.

Assange has always denied the accusation. He avoided extradition to Sweden for seven years by hiding in the Ecuadorean embassy in London, but he was evicted in April and sentenced to 50 weeks in jail for breaching his bail conditions.

Read it at BBC News

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Exactly.

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Or another way of looking at it is yet another powerful white man in news media and politics gets away with allegedly sexually assaulting people whilst others choose to dismiss the victims and defend him based on their political alignments.

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Having said that: whistleblowers need much more protection. It is often more important that what they revealed is answered for by the people responsible, than that they revealed this.

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However, this does not give carte blanche to anyone seeking to avoid sexual assault charges by hiding out in a foreign embassy or from answering for potential crimes in how they got the information. There needs to be a balance between protecting the whistleblower and this. At an extreme: If people break into the office of a political opponent to steal information and wire tap that office to find things that can be used to whistleblow against that political party, then this should not be protected.

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Most of the reasons stated for the extradition of Assange to the US should be protected (with Assange being found Not Guilty) - Not as part of whistleblower protection, but as freedom of the press protection (Manning was the whistleblower, not Assange) - and I hope the courts find this. Outside of this being potentially a kangaroo court, there is the issue of assistance given by Julian Assange to Chelsea Manning on how to illegally break into secure systems - Here he may have crossed the line.

[Edited 11/19/19 16:23pm]

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Reply #6 posted 11/19/19 2:06pm

poppys

^^ nod For some reason, people can't understand that you can be guilty of one thing, and still do good in another way. He's a folk hero so he can't be guilty of rape/ sexual assault. Human beings are just not that simplistic.

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Reply #7 posted 11/19/19 3:51pm

PennyPurple

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poppys said:

Doesn't mean he didn't do it. Only that the charges were dropped. We went over this extensively in the last Assange thread.

Sweden’s Deputy Chief Prosecutor Eva-Marie Persson made the announcement Tuesday as she gave an update on the case. The statement said the evidence for the 2010 rape allegation has “weakened considerably” due to the long period of time that has elapsed since it the event.

“I would like to emphasize that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events. Her statements have been coherent, extensive, and detailed; however, my overall assessment is that the evidential situation has been weakened to such an extent that that there is no longer any reason to continue the investigation,” said Persson.

Assange has always denied the accusation. He avoided extradition to Sweden for seven years by hiding in the Ecuadorean embassy in London, but he was evicted in April and sentenced to 50 weeks in jail for breaching his bail conditions.

Read it at BBC News

Exactly.

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Reply #8 posted 11/20/19 2:36am

nd33

Assange has repeatedly invited to be interviewed by Swedish authorities in the UK over the charge, but they never took him up on it. It was in their court, they refused. Bad look for them, and not much support for the “alleged” victim. Speaks vendetta.
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Reply #9 posted 11/20/19 4:11am

IanRG

nd33 said:

Assange has repeatedly invited to be interviewed by Swedish authorities in the UK over the charge, but they never took him up on it. It was in their court, they refused. Bad look for them, and not much support for the “alleged” victim. Speaks vendetta.

.

Because everyone else can tell legal prosecution investigators that they must ignore UK, Swedish and EU laws to avoid legal extradiction and have the interviews in the embassy of a third non-EU country being used to hideout and circumvent the law?

.

Bad look for anyone thinking this was a reasonable and normal process for people being investigated for sexual assault. If this is normal and acceptable, why don't all people being investigated for sexual abuse just seek asylum in nearest foreign embassy?

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Reply #10 posted 11/20/19 4:15am

jaawwnn

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It's perfectly possible that he's guilty of rape and is going to be put in a hole for the rest of his life by the authorities over Wikileaks. It's perfectly possible that he's innocent of rape and is going to be put in a hole for the rest of his life by the authorities over Wikileaks. He can be an unlikeable person (which I get the impression that he is, although who knows) and still treated like a sub-human.

Right now we know the investigation has been dropped (I believe there were never any charges?), he's still in jail over breaching bail conditions, and currently eligible for release per the conditions of his imprisonment.

We'll see what happens but he has every right to fear extradition to the US, it's not a country with a good human rights record.



[Edited 11/20/19 4:17am]

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Reply #11 posted 11/20/19 4:30am

IanRG

jaawwnn said:

It's perfectly possible that he's guilty of rape and is going to be put in a hole for the rest of his life by the authorities over Wikileaks. It's perfectly possible that he's innocent of rape and is going to be put in a hole for the rest of his life by the authorities over Wikileaks. He can be an unlikeable person (which I get the impression that he is, although who knows) and still treated like a sub-human.

Right now we know the investigation has been dropped (I believe there were never any charges?), he's still in jail over breaching bail conditions, and currently eligible for release per the conditions of his imprisonment.

We'll see what happens but he has every right to fear extradition to the US, it's not a country with a good human rights record.



[Edited 11/20/19 4:17am]

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No, his current conditions of his imprisonment is that he is being held in prison as a flight risk with a history of absconding to avoid extradition. It is hard to argue that he is not a flight risk, given his history.

.

Anyone with his history would be similarly treated. Have you ever expressed the same concerns for anyone else who have the same history of seeking to escape the law?

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Reply #12 posted 11/20/19 4:39am

nd33

IanRG said:



nd33 said:


Assange has repeatedly invited to be interviewed by Swedish authorities in the UK over the charge, but they never took him up on it. It was in their court, they refused. Bad look for them, and not much support for the “alleged” victim. Speaks vendetta.

.


Because everyone else can tell legal prosecution investigators that they must ignore UK, Swedish and EU laws to avoid legal extradiction and have the interviews in the embassy of a third non-EU country being used to hideout and circumvent the law?


.


Bad look for anyone thinking this was a reasonable and normal process for people being investigated for sexual assault. If this is normal and acceptable, why don't all people being investigated for sexual abuse just seek asylum in nearest foreign embassy?



They even agreed to interview him in London, they just never bothered to show up.
https://www.thelocal.se/2...-in-london

Now they’ve dropped the whole case before the statute of limitations is up. Must be because they think they have a good case... nutty
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Reply #13 posted 11/20/19 5:35am

IanRG

nd33 said:

IanRG said:

.

Because everyone else can tell legal prosecution investigators that they must ignore UK, Swedish and EU laws to avoid legal extradiction and have the interviews in the embassy of a third non-EU country being used to hideout and circumvent the law?

.

Bad look for anyone thinking this was a reasonable and normal process for people being investigated for sexual assault. If this is normal and acceptable, why don't all people being investigated for sexual abuse just seek asylum in nearest foreign embassy?

They even agreed to interview him in London, they just never bothered to show up. https://www.thelocal.se/2...-in-london Now they’ve dropped the whole case before the statute of limitations is up. Must be because they think they have a good case... nutty

.

Did you read the article? It does not say what you said it says. It is from before there was any agreement to visit Assange in London. They DID meet with Assange https://zeenews.india.com...49641.html . Following that meeting the prosecutors determined that Assange is required to meet the legal extradiction order and should be interviewed properly in Sweden - Assange stayed hiding in the embassy and never bothered to show up.

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Why can't you answer my statement?

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When has any other accused rapist been able to dictate where and how legal prosecution investigations must occur and that that must be in the embassy of a third country that the accused is hiding out from the Swedish courts in? Supporting this is encouraging all accused rapists to do the same or equivalent - but I am sure you woud not support this for other accused rapists.

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Reply #14 posted 11/20/19 5:35am

djThunderfunk

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If he gets extradited to the U.S., he'll probably be Epsteined.

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Reply #15 posted 11/20/19 5:56am

jaawwnn

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IanRG said:

No, his current conditions of his imprisonment is that he is being held in prison as a flight risk with a history of absconding to avoid extradition. It is hard to argue that he is not a flight risk, given his history.

Right yeah. And rightly so I guess, i'd run if I was given the chance.



Anyone with his history would be similarly treated. Have you ever expressed the same concerns for anyone else who have the same history of seeking to escape the law?


Maybe i'd worry about "the law" in this case if I thought there was even the slightest possibility that the US State Department would give him a fair trial.

[Edited 11/20/19 6:00am]

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Reply #16 posted 11/20/19 7:00am

nd33

IanRG said:



nd33 said:


IanRG said:


.


Because everyone else can tell legal prosecution investigators that they must ignore UK, Swedish and EU laws to avoid legal extradiction and have the interviews in the embassy of a third non-EU country being used to hideout and circumvent the law?


.


Bad look for anyone thinking this was a reasonable and normal process for people being investigated for sexual assault. If this is normal and acceptable, why don't all people being investigated for sexual abuse just seek asylum in nearest foreign embassy?



They even agreed to interview him in London, they just never bothered to show up. https://www.thelocal.se/2...-in-london Now they’ve dropped the whole case before the statute of limitations is up. Must be because they think they have a good case... nutty

.


Did you read the article? It does not say what you said it says. It is from before there was any agreement to visit Assange in London. They DID meet with Assange https://zeenews.india.com...49641.html . Following that meeting the prosecutors determined that Assange is required to meet the legal extradiction order and should be interviewed properly in Sweden - Assange stayed hiding in the embassy and never bothered to show up.


.


Why can't you answer my statement?


.


When has any other accused rapist been able to dictate where and how legal prosecution investigations must occur and that that must be in the embassy of a third country that the accused is hiding out from the Swedish courts in? Supporting this is encouraging all accused rapists to do the same or equivalent - but I am sure you woud not support this for other accused rapists.



The Swedes wouldn’t guarantee that he wouldn’t be extradited to the US. Why the fuck would anyone trust that? NOBODY in Assange position would. The US govt is corrupt and brutal as fuck. No one is risking that.
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Reply #17 posted 11/20/19 8:27am

2freaky4church
1

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Talk about quid pro quo.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #18 posted 11/20/19 10:50am

IanRG

nd33 said:

IanRG said:

.

Did you read the article? It does not say what you said it says. It is from before there was any agreement to visit Assange in London. They DID meet with Assange https://zeenews.india.com...49641.html . Following that meeting the prosecutors determined that Assange is required to meet the legal extradiction order and should be interviewed properly in Sweden - Assange stayed hiding in the embassy and never bothered to show up.

.

Why can't you answer my statement?

.

When has any other accused rapist been able to dictate where and how legal prosecution investigations must occur and that that must be in the embassy of a third country that the accused is hiding out from the Swedish courts in? Supporting this is encouraging all accused rapists to do the same or equivalent - but I am sure you woud not support this for other accused rapists.

The Swedes wouldn’t guarantee that he wouldn’t be extradited to the US. Why the fuck would anyone trust that? NOBODY in Assange position would. The US govt is corrupt and brutal as fuck. No one is risking that.

.

Which fails to admit you got it wrong - The Swedes did meet with Assange in London when you joked about them them just not showing up when we know who failed to show up.

.

Your comment makes no sense and just repeats Assange's spin. The UK government also did not guarantee that they would not agree to extradite him to the US - and they are in the process of doing this now, so the need to stay out of Sweden has nothing to with the potential US extradiction. The timing shows Assange was hiding from the rape allegations not the US extradiction. The British had him in custody and the US made no application. Following the hearing for the Swedish extradition, Assange was released on bail and the US made no application. When it decided he legally must be extradicted to Sweden, he ran and never bothered to show up. The US still had made no application. It was not until more than 7 years later that they made an application and it was to the UK government - putting to bed the lie that he could rely on the UK but not Sweden to protect him from US extradiction.

[Edited 11/20/19 13:04pm]

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Reply #19 posted 11/20/19 1:02pm

IanRG

2freaky4church1 said:

Talk about quid pro quo.

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This is what you get when you work for Trump.

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He sold out the integrity of Wikileaks by the timing of the release of the Russian sourced documents and then publicly lied on international television to deny the source - all to support Trump's election. And the quid pro quo - It was in Trump's presidency that the US first sought Assange's extradition.

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And this not the only time he was burned doing secret deals with far right organisations: Assange killed his own political party, the Australian Wikileaks Party, by going behind the backs of the party executive to break its own rules on making no secret deals to make secret preference deals with Australian far right political parties.

[Edited 11/20/19 13:26pm]

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Reply #20 posted 11/20/19 1:55pm

IanRG

jaawwnn said:

IanRG said:

Right yeah. And rightly so I guess, i'd run if I was given the chance.



Anyone with his history would be similarly treated. Have you ever expressed the same concerns for anyone else who have the same history of seeking to escape the law?


Maybe i'd worry about "the law" in this case if I thought there was even the slightest possibility that the US State Department would give him a fair trial.

[Edited 11/20/19 6:00am]

.

Did his alleged victims get a fair trial in Sweden?

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Reply #21 posted 11/20/19 2:06pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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BombSquad said:

Now we can focus on the fact that Assange is a whistleblower and his activities with Wikileaks should be protected as such.

here we agree

Except that Assange began publishing unredacted docments with personal information making him a danger to the privacy of citizens.

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #22 posted 11/20/19 3:05pm

2freaky4church
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Some of you sound like the deep state.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #23 posted 11/20/19 5:43pm

djThunderfunk

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Just mockingbirds in the echo chamber... razz

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Reply #24 posted 11/20/19 8:11pm

IanRG

2freaky4church1 said:

Some of you sound like the deep state.

.

Agreed. Too many people imagining conspiracy theories and false claims when it is most likely simple and direct. He ran from the sexual abuse extradition and the US simply never needed to rely on using B grade trashy spy movie tactics to use Sweden (of all places) as a complaint dummy state to trick him into extradiction with made up rape claims.

[Edited 11/20/19 20:12pm]

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Reply #25 posted 11/20/19 11:01pm

poppys

IanRG said:

jaawwnn said:

Maybe i'd worry about "the law" in this case if I thought there was even the slightest possibility that the US State Department would give him a fair trial.

.

Did his alleged victims get a fair trial in Sweden?

No.

And the mockingbirds in the echo chamber posted he was too scrawny to commit rape in the last thread.

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Reply #26 posted 11/21/19 2:13am

jaawwnn

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IanRG said:

jaawwnn said:

.

Did his alleged victims get a fair trial in Sweden?

He wasn't even charged. I'm all for charging him for rape if it's warranted, go for it. I'd trust Sweden to give him a fair trial.

At the same time, he's not wrong to fear this being a setup. If you think the departments who ran Cointelpro, funded the Contras, launched the war on Iraq with lies and ran the largest civilian spying operation in the history of humanity can be trusted on these issues... well fair enough, it's clear where you stand.


[Edited 11/21/19 2:20am]

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Reply #27 posted 11/21/19 3:52am

IanRG

jaawwnn said:

IanRG said:

.

Did his alleged victims get a fair trial in Sweden?

He wasn't even charged. I'm all for charging him for rape if it's warranted, go for it. I'd trust Sweden to give him a fair trial.

At the same time, he's not wrong to fear this being a setup. If you think the departments who ran Cointelpro, funded the Contras, launched the war on Iraq with lies and ran the largest civilian spying operation in the history of humanity can be trusted on these issues... well fair enough, it's clear where you stand.


[Edited 11/21/19 2:20am]

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He was not charged because he illegally avoided the investigation - Read the article that inspired this thread.

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How offensive is it to seek to compare these alleged victims with Coinelpro, the Contras affair and starting the war with Iraq!

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And again offensive to follow this up with its is clear where I stand implying I am for the US doing these - I stand with the victims of sexual abuse. Assange admitted that he had non-consensual sex without a condom using the excuse that he has consensual sex the night before.

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Reply #28 posted 11/21/19 4:26am

jaawwnn

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IanRG said:

.

He was not charged because he illegally avoided the investigation - Read the article that inspired this thread.

I'm not sure how many times I need to tell you that I believe there's every chance he's guilty of that crime, it's the extradition order to the US that I oppose. One more time I guess.

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How offensive is it to seek to compare these alleged victims with Coinelpro, the Contras affair and starting the war with Iraq!

I'm not doing that, don't insult everyone's intelligence by deliberately misunderstanding me.


.And again offensive to follow this up with its is clear where I stand implying I am for the US doing these - I stand with the victims of sexual abuse. Assange admitted that he had non-consensual sex without a condom using the excuse that he has consensual sex the night before.

I'm not sure how many times I need to tell you that I believe there's every chance he's guilty of that crime, it's the extradition order to the US that I oppose. One more time I guess.

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Reply #29 posted 11/21/19 5:00am

IanRG

jaawwnn said:

IanRG said:

I'm not doing that, don't insult everyone's intelligence by deliberately misunderstanding me.


.And again offensive to follow this up with its is clear where I stand implying I am for the US doing these - I stand with the victims of sexual abuse. Assange admitted that he had non-consensual sex without a condom using the excuse that he has consensual sex the night before.

I'm not sure how many times I need to tell you that I believe there's every chance he's guilty of that crime, it's the extradition order to the US that I oppose. One more time I guess.

.

No you did not. The only time you said anything about the possibility that Assange could be guilty, you said "It's perfectly possible that he's guilty of rape and is going to be put in a hole for the rest of his life by the authorities over Wikileaks. It's perfectly possible that he's innocent of rape and is going to be put in a hole for the rest of his life by the authorities over Wikileaks. He can be an unlikeable person (which I get the impression that he is, although who knows) and still treated like a sub-human."
.

Don't insult your own intelligence - this is not a statement that says there is every chance the women are not making this up, it is dismissive of whether he is guilty of sexual assault and at best considers an even chance that the women are making this up. To say something has every chance of being correct is significantly more than a dismissive even chance. I welcome you now, for the first time, saying there is every chance Assange is a rapist. I disagree with you that this is not important.

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You show concern about how Assange is being treated in gaol - which is no different to how people who have spent 7 years publicly on the run from sexual assault allegations and investigations would normally be treated. Where is the concern for the alleged victims? The women who have been threatened with death and are the pariahs of every Assange supporter around the world.

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If you say Assange is not wrong to fear this (being the accusations of rape by the women) is a set up and say this is not beyond the the people responsible for some of the worst acts by the US government, then how is this not accusing the alleged victims of sexual assault by Assange?

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