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Reply #240 posted 10/31/19 7:18am

TweetyV6

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jaawwnn said:

Here's a story of people recyling wind turbines in 2019. It seems people know its a problem and are already addressing it.


Thanx for the link.

It's a known technique.
The last sentence says it all: "We lose money on every blade we haul."
The costs are too high to make it a viable business.


Shredding is expensive because even diamond coated shredding blades deteriorate awefully fast.

Exactlty that's what my friend & Fraunhofer are looking at.

They are looking at the option of literally blowing the turbine blades to pieces with controlled explosions.
Submerged in water as the dust coming from the blades causes silicosis (as does coal dust)
Problem is that it gives a very inconsistent distribution of particle sizes.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #241 posted 10/31/19 8:00am

jaawwnn

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It still sounds like a net-better idea than reliance on fossil fuels. I'm not saying wind power is the complete answer, and I have a laymans understanding of the rare earth problems with solar, plus i'm generally in favour of nuclear. Considering how many problems we have overcome, I see no reason to immediately give up when green energy throws us a few curveballs. The fact that people are taking the problems seriously is a good thing in my view, same as more efficient petrol vehicles being a good thing.


And obviously as a raging leftie i'm less bothered about how "viable" a business is, lets just agree to disagree about that one.



[Edited 10/31/19 8:13am]

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Reply #242 posted 11/02/19 3:29am

maplenpg

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Great news for those of us in the UK today (especially those of us in the North) All fracking has been halted. Whoop Whoop. Now, just need to get Corbyn in to get it banned.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #243 posted 11/02/19 10:26am

2freaky4church
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The death threats against Greta are evil, since climate change denial is evil.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #244 posted 11/03/19 11:40pm

TweetyV6

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2freaky4church1 said:

The death threats against Greta are evil, since climate change denial is evil.

What's to deny about climate change?
The climate is no stable entity. It's highly chaotic and always changing.
Always has been, is and allways will be until our sun blows up and destroyes our planet.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #245 posted 11/04/19 3:14pm

2freaky4church
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You will die too Tweets.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #246 posted 11/05/19 12:54am

maplenpg

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2freaky4church1 said:

You will die too Tweets.

To be fair Freaky, we're all going to die, and most of the catastrophic weather events that we are hearing might happen are towards the end of the century, into the 22nd century. We need to act now for our grandchildren and their children, not for ourselves.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #247 posted 11/06/19 7:24am

2freaky4church
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Monday 31 for a high here in Cincy. It never gets that cold in nov. mfr.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #248 posted 11/06/19 8:44am

poppys

You know weather and climate R 2 different things?

[Edited 11/7/19 6:58am]

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Reply #249 posted 11/06/19 2:37pm

djThunderfunk

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2freaky4church1 said:

Monday 31 for a high here in Cincy. It never gets that cold in nov. mfr.


Really? Cause the internet says it hit 62 in Cincy this Monday.

https://www.accuweather.c...her/350126



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Reply #250 posted 11/06/19 3:07pm

sexton

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djThunderfunk said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Monday 31 for a high here in Cincy. It never gets that cold in nov. mfr.


Really? Cause the internet says it hit 62 in Cincy this Monday.

https://www.accuweather.c...her/350126




I thought he was talking about next week.

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Reply #251 posted 11/06/19 3:27pm

djThunderfunk

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sexton said:

djThunderfunk said:


Really? Cause the internet says it hit 62 in Cincy this Monday.

https://www.accuweather.c...her/350126




I thought he was talking about next week.


That's possible. It's not like he used complete sentences, or clarified in any way. lol

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Reply #252 posted 11/07/19 6:56am

poppys

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-climate-idUSKBN1XH0RQ

November 6, 2019 New Zealand passes law aiming for net zero carbon emissions by 2050

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #253 posted 11/07/19 11:02pm

TweetyV6

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poppys said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-climate-idUSKBN1XH0RQ

November 6, 2019 New Zealand passes law aiming for net zero carbon emissions by 2050

O.k., let's do the same exercise here:


In 2013, New Zealand’s total primary energy supply (TPES) was around 19.5 million tons of oil equivalent (Mtoe). By source, oil represented the largest share at about 33 percent. Natural gas and geothermal energy were second largest, contributing around 20 percent and 22 percent, respectively. The remainder of the primary energy supply were hydro at 10 percent, coal at 8 percent, biomass with 6 percent, and a smaller percentage of other renewables such as wind and solar photovoltaic (PV).

Source: http://www.eria.org/RPR_F...ter_13.pdf

So from fossil fuel came 11,9 mtoe of energy (33% oil + 20% gas + 8% coal = 61%)
This was in 2013, let's asume this has stayed unchanged until 2020

So by 2050 these 11,9 mtoe of energy need te be transformed to CO2 free energy sources

Again, taking that 1 nuclear power plant produces about 1 mtoe of energy per year and it would take about 2000 large wind turbines to produce the same amount of energy


This means that New Zealand, in the coming 30 years, has to build
12 nuclear power plants

or 48.000 wind turbines

And then for what?
New Zealand accounts for only 0,1% of the global CO2 emissions.

It wil have NO impact on the 'climate crisis' rolleyes

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #254 posted 11/08/19 3:31am

Strive

A simple reminder:



China and India has 2.6 billion citizens

US and EU has 800 million citizens



Total CO/2 emissions as of 2017:



World = 37,077.404

China = 10,877.218

US = 5,107.393

EU = 3,548.345

India = 2,454.774



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions#Fossil_CO2_Emissions_by_country/region



Combining the US and EU doesn't equal China's output. The planet doesn't care about per capta pollution rate. 80% of the plastic in the ocean are sourced from 4 rivers in Asia and 1 river in Africa. China and India's emissions are exploding while US and EU emissions are decreasing. 300 million Indians are living without access to electricity and their government has pledged to bring them all on the grid. 330 million is the population of the entire US.


Whenever western birthrates drop, the global elite decide to import more desperate third world workers they can abuse.



(PS. Nuclear is the only realistic alternative to fossil fuels)

[Edited 11/8/19 3:50am]

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #255 posted 11/08/19 6:39am

maplenpg

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TweetyV6 said:

poppys said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-climate-idUSKBN1XH0RQ

November 6, 2019 New Zealand passes law aiming for net zero carbon emissions by 2050

O.k., let's do the same exercise here:


In 2013, New Zealand’s total primary energy supply (TPES) was around 19.5 million tons of oil equivalent (Mtoe). By source, oil represented the largest share at about 33 percent. Natural gas and geothermal energy were second largest, contributing around 20 percent and 22 percent, respectively. The remainder of the primary energy supply were hydro at 10 percent, coal at 8 percent, biomass with 6 percent, and a smaller percentage of other renewables such as wind and solar photovoltaic (PV).

Source: http://www.eria.org/RPR_F...ter_13.pdf

So from fossil fuel came 11,9 mtoe of energy (33% oil + 20% gas + 8% coal = 61%)
This was in 2013, let's asume this has stayed unchanged until 2020

So by 2050 these 11,9 mtoe of energy need te be transformed to CO2 free energy sources

Again, taking that 1 nuclear power plant produces about 1 mtoe of energy per year and it would take about 2000 large wind turbines to produce the same amount of energy


This means that New Zealand, in the coming 30 years, has to build
12 nuclear power plants

or 48.000 wind turbines

And then for what?
New Zealand accounts for only 0,1% of the global CO2 emissions.

In my opinion it will have NO impact on the 'climate crisis' rolleyes

Tweety, this thread has started going round in circles. I'm with Poppy, this is a great and ambitious move by New Zealand. Your response is massively flawed as it doesn't take into account the many other factors other than a straight exchange between fossil fuels and other energy sources such as wind and nuclear power (see reply #239). The truth there are many other factors involved.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #256 posted 11/08/19 6:46am

maplenpg

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Strive said:

A simple reminder:



China and India has 2.6 billion citizens

US and EU has 800 million citizens



Total CO/2 emissions as of 2017:



World = 37,077.404

China = 10,877.218

US = 5,107.393

EU = 3,548.345

India = 2,454.774



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions#Fossil_CO2_Emissions_by_country/region



Combining the US and EU doesn't equal China's output. The planet doesn't care about per capta pollution rate. 80% of the plastic in the ocean are sourced from 4 rivers in Asia and 1 river in Africa. China and India's emissions are exploding while US and EU emissions are decreasing. 300 million Indians are living without access to electricity and their government has pledged to bring them all on the grid. 330 million is the population of the entire US.


Whenever western birthrates drop, the global elite decide to import more desperate third world workers they can abuse.



(PS. Nuclear is the only realistic alternative to fossil fuels)

[Edited 11/8/19 3:50am]

I'm sure Jaawwnn said it somewhere earlier - just because other counties are behind us, it doesn't mean we should stop striving to be at the front, leading the rest of the world.

India actually is doing a lot with renewable energy and, especially with solar energy, is a world leader, so I'm not really sure that the electricity they are rightly pledging to all citizens is a huge problem.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #257 posted 11/08/19 9:13am

poppys

maplenpg said:

TweetyV6 said:

Source: http://www.eria.org/RPR_F...ter_13.pdf

So from fossil fuel came 11,9 mtoe of energy (33% oil + 20% gas + 8% coal = 61%)
This was in 2013, let's asume this has stayed unchanged until 2020

So by 2050 these 11,9 mtoe of energy need te be transformed to CO2 free energy sources

Again, taking that 1 nuclear power plant produces about 1 mtoe of energy per year and it would take about 2000 large wind turbines to produce the same amount of energy


This means that New Zealand, in the coming 30 years, has to build
12 nuclear power plants

or 48.000 wind turbines

And then for what?
New Zealand accounts for only 0,1% of the global CO2 emissions.

In my opinion it will have NO impact on the 'climate crisis' rolleyes

Tweety, this thread has started going round in circles. I'm with Poppy, this is a great and ambitious move by New Zealand. Your response is massively flawed as it doesn't take into account the many other factors other than a straight exchange between fossil fuels and other energy sources such as wind and nuclear power (see reply #239). The truth there are many other factors involved.


It's crazy. It's like New Zealand shouldn't do anything because of some math problems and the it won't matter anyway defense.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #258 posted 11/08/19 9:20am

maplenpg

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poppys said:

maplenpg said:

Tweety, this thread has started going round in circles. I'm with Poppy, this is a great and ambitious move by New Zealand. Your response is massively flawed as it doesn't take into account the many other factors other than a straight exchange between fossil fuels and other energy sources such as wind and nuclear power (see reply #239). The truth there are many other factors involved.


It's crazy. It's like New Zealand shouldn't do anything because of some math problems and the it won't matter anyway defense.

Yup. I kind of understand man-made climate deniers such as Tweety (that is not to say I agree with them), but there is simply so much science out there that I refuse to believe it is all just balony. And more economical industry that is sustainable and better for the planet cannot be a bad thing in my book.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #259 posted 11/08/19 10:12am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

maplenpg said:

I'm proud of our young people. Do I think anything will change anytime soon? Nope sad








.

I think there are a lot of things happening and in the works to help with the eco system, world wide

I was checking out this the Tao Zhu Yin Yuan Tower -A Carbon-Absorbing Green Tower

The balconies will be covered in plants, which the firm claims will absorb 130 tons of carbon dioxide emissions per year. Taiwan produced over 260 million tons of CO2 in 2008, the latest year data is available.

586fcb75f10a9a23008b7087?width=600&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://prince.org/msg/100/461366

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #260 posted 11/09/19 8:05am

2freaky4church
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That green tower is like the worst thing ever. We have to grow up. End oil, end fracking, end coal or we die.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #261 posted 11/09/19 8:20am

maplenpg

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2freaky4church1 said:

That green tower is like the worst thing ever. We have to grow up. End oil, end fracking, end coal or we die.

The bold is just your opinion. I like the green tower (apart from the twist which I find unnecessary), and I think any step forward is a good step, though I do wonder how easy it will be to maintain long term. Thanks OldFriends for posting (and for the longer thread in GD). We cannot end oil and coal without having a realistic alternative, but we can start to reduce our use, or make things that use them more economical. Fracking I've never agreed with.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #262 posted 11/09/19 9:41am

2freaky4church
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No building over ten stories. Has to be done.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #263 posted 11/09/19 9:50am

maplenpg

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2freaky4church1 said:

No building over ten stories. Has to be done.

Why?

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #264 posted 11/09/19 1:55pm

Strive

maplenpg said:

I'm sure Jaawwnn said it somewhere earlier - just because other counties are behind us, it doesn't mean we should stop striving to be at the front, leading the rest of the world.

India actually is doing a lot with renewable energy and, especially with solar energy, is a world leader, so I'm not really sure that the electricity they are rightly pledging to all citizens is a huge problem.


What are we leading? China isn't predicted to level out (not decrease, simply stop increasing) until 2030 and India has literally no timeline to get their emissions under control. There's 2.6 billion people in those two countries and they're still growing.

As the quality of life increases in those countries, their individual carbon footprint will grow.

When the birthrates of western countries and Japan fall under sustaining rates, the people in charge loudly call for more immigration. The people who come don't care about overpopulation or what their carbon footprint is. The truth is their carbon footprint will be larger than it would be in the native country due to increased quality of life standards.

So why are the people in charge ignoring China and India while also calling for unchecked immigration when we're in a climate crisis with our entire planet on the verge of dying?


Starting to see the scam? Climate change is simply a tool for some (politicians) to seize control and for others (corporations) to transfer wealth to nations that have a vastly larger population (potential customer base) with none of the pesky human/worker rights that western countries have.

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #265 posted 11/09/19 2:10pm

poppys

So why are the people in charge ignoring China and India while also calling for unchecked immigration when we're in a climate crisis with our entire planet on the verge of dying?

I understand your point, but the US is trying to stop immigration right now. Ditto most of Europe. While ignoring the carbon footprint of China and India at the same time.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #266 posted 11/09/19 10:48pm

maplenpg

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poppys said:

So why are the people in charge ignoring China and India while also calling for unchecked immigration when we're in a climate crisis with our entire planet on the verge of dying?

I understand your point, but the US is trying to stop immigration right now. Ditto most of Europe. While ignoring the carbon footprint of China and India at the same time.

This. If we wanted immigrants Libya and Syria have literally people dying daily trying to get to the western world - yet we are letting them die.

Plus the birth rates of the western world are not dropping to 'under-sustaining rates' - quite the opposite.

[Edited 11/9/19 23:05pm]

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #267 posted 11/09/19 11:04pm

maplenpg

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Strive said:

maplenpg said:

I'm sure Jaawwnn said it somewhere earlier - just because other counties are behind us, it doesn't mean we should stop striving to be at the front, leading the rest of the world.

India actually is doing a lot with renewable energy and, especially with solar energy, is a world leader, so I'm not really sure that the electricity they are rightly pledging to all citizens is a huge problem.


What are we leading? China isn't predicted to level out (not decrease, simply stop increasing) until 2030 and India has literally no timeline to get their emissions under control. There's 2.6 billion people in those two countries and they're still growing.

As the quality of life increases in those countries, their individual carbon footprint will grow.

When the birthrates of western countries and Japan fall under sustaining rates, the people in charge loudly call for more immigration. The people who come don't care about overpopulation or what their carbon footprint is. The truth is their carbon footprint will be larger than it would be in the native country due to increased quality of life standards.

So why are the people in charge ignoring China and India while also calling for unchecked immigration when we're in a climate crisis with our entire planet on the verge of dying?


Starting to see the scam? Climate change is simply a tool for some (politicians) to seize control and for others (corporations) to transfer wealth to nations that have a vastly larger population (potential customer base) with none of the pesky human/worker rights that western countries have.

It really makes me sad that people use the argument of what others are doing, I'm not really sure why? For me, so what? Doesn't mean we have to change. India are often used as a scapegoat as their carbon output has been historically high due to coal, but this is changing, and they are leading in the renewable energy markets. Their targets are that half the current power demand will be met by renewables by 2030. I don't see that as them doing nothing. This is a fairly balanced article https://www.carbonbrief.o...ly-in-2019

We have historically used our wealth to afford slave labour in countries that don't have the 'pesky human/worker rights that western countries have' - I don't see that climate change has anything to do with it. If it bothers you, consume less, buy local and ethical.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #268 posted 11/09/19 11:15pm

Strive

maplenpg said:



poppys said:


So why are the people in charge ignoring China and India while also calling for unchecked immigration when we're in a climate crisis with our entire planet on the verge of dying?

I understand your point, but the US is trying to stop immigration right now. Ditto most of Europe. While ignoring the carbon footprint of China and India at the same time.



This. If we wanted immigrants Libya and Syria have literally people dying daily trying to get to the western world - yet we are letting them die.

Plus the birth rates of the western world are not dropping to 'under-sustaining rates' - quite the opposite.

[Edited 11/9/19 23:05pm]



Incorrect.

https://foreignpolicy.com...on-europe/

https://www.theguardian.c...n-disaster

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnn...n-Is-Dying

And how do you begin to address the issue when you don't know where the problem is?

Sure you feel good if you use a metal water bottle but it doesn't address the fact that 80% of the plastic getting dumped in the ocean is sourced from 4 rivers in Asia and 1 river in Africa.

Westerners deciding not to have kids because of overpopulation and climate change doesn't amount to much when the overpopulation is in China/India in numbers Westerners can't even comprehend and we import replacements that don't care about the environment anyways.

Japan's population shrinking should be a good thing but instead the usual suspects are calling for widespread immigration.

https://www.washingtonpos...g-country/
[Edited 11/9/19 23:43pm]
no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #269 posted 11/10/19 6:02am

poppys

Strive said:

maplenpg said:

This. If we wanted immigrants Libya and Syria have literally people dying daily trying to get to the western world - yet we are letting them die.

Plus the birth rates of the western world are not dropping to 'under-sustaining rates' - quite the opposite.


Incorrect. https://foreignpolicy.com...on-europe/ https://www.theguardian.c...n-disaster https://www1.cbn.com/cbnn...n-Is-Dying And how do you begin to address the issue when you don't know where the problem is? Sure you feel good if you use a metal water bottle but it doesn't address the fact that 80% of the plastic getting dumped in the ocean is sourced from 4 rivers in Asia and 1 river in Africa. Westerners deciding not to have kids because of overpopulation and climate change doesn't amount to much when the overpopulation is in China/India in numbers Westerners can't even comprehend and we import replacements that don't care about the environment anyways. Japan's population shrinking should be a good thing but instead the usual suspects are calling for widespread immigration. https://www.washingtonpos...g-country/


I am aware of Japan encouraging certain kinds of controlled immigration, which is why I did not include them in my reply. The US is not only stemming immigration, we are deporting people that have been here for decades. And our population is not shrinking, it has doubled in my lifetime You are insisting on a theory that does not exist.

There are and will always be people in every country who care about the enviornment, it is not really about nationalism. It's more about money, greed and the misplaced priorities of global coroporatists.

politics: the art or science of government.
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