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Thread started 09/13/19 7:53am

RodeoSchro

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My One And Only Thread On Religion


Since jfenster's thread got locked, I'm starting a new one that I am sure will not be controversial in any way, shape or form. Yeah, right!

The thing I notice most on religion threads is that they usually end up with atheists attacking Christians. The atheists use terms like "Tooth Fairy" and "invisible unicorns" and "fact-resistant bubbles" to attack Christianity.

Why?

There have been many Orgers through the years who've used similar terms when discussing Christianity. All these terms are pretty harsh, and seem to me to spring from a place of fear or uncertainty, rather than from actual animosity.

jfenster, IanRG and I made it pretty clear in the former thread that we weren't trying to convert anyon to anything. We just wanted to present what we believe, and we hoped very much that it would be postively received.

It wasn't, obviously.

You know, you don't see a Muslim or a Jew telling Christians they believe in the Tooth Fairy, even though we certainly have different beliefs with respect to the Son of God. (We all know what radical Muslims believe, so let's not turn this into a political thread.)

It seems like the only people who use those kinds of terms are atheists.

And I think I know why. And I think I can put the atheists here at ease.

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.

But it's not accurate. Hell isn't only for the Hitlers of the world; it's for non-believers too. Sad as it is for some to hear, under the Christian belief you have to accept that it's possible there are billions of otherwise-good souls suffering in Hell only because of non-belief.

So, atheists - understand this. Christians believe Hell is for non-believers. Non-belief in and of itself doesn't define a person's character in any way - it's a spiritual issue. No Christian thinks that while you may be the most charitable, nicest, giving person in the world, you are a POS worthy of contempt if you don't believe in Jesus.

Take that off your worry list.

Never forget - Christians can repeat story after story after story about people who, on their death bed, saw the light and accepted Jesus Christ into their heart. So we know for a dead-solid fact that it's never too late.

Always remember that. Christians - my kind of Christians, anyway - hold out unextinguishable hope for each and every person. We do not equate non-belief with being a bad person.

I hope this helps!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #1 posted 09/13/19 8:21am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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And then the people who say 'The religion of Islam is being singled out' and people shouldn't talk about it, and make clear statements that they are not attacking Islam, are some of the same ones that join in to attack Christianity, but never say 'Christianity is being singled out...'

.

Learn about Islam haters.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #2 posted 09/13/19 8:35am

RodeoSchro

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OldFriends4Sale said:

And then the people who say 'The religion of Islam is being singled out' and people shouldn't talk about it, and make clear statements that they are not attacking Islam, are some of the same ones that join in to attack Christianity, but never say 'Christianity is being singled out...'

.

Learn about Islam haters.



IS THERE SUPPOSED TO BE A COMMA AFTER "Islam" OR NOT?

Lol.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #3 posted 09/13/19 8:35am

2freaky4church
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Because Christianity is the religion in America and was taken over by imperial statism. The Bible is against systems and empire. The State killed Christ and the System of things reduces morality. Prince was right

The reason I defend Islam is because the west is ignorant about it.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #4 posted 09/13/19 8:38am

RodeoSchro

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2freaky4church1 said:

Because Christianity is the religion in America and was taken over by imperial statism. The Bible is against systems and empire. The State killed Christ and the System of things reduces morality. Prince was right

The reason I defend Islam is because the west is ignorant about it.



So you are saying there is supposed to be a comma in "Learn about Islam haters", after the word "Islam"?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #5 posted 09/13/19 8:41am

2freaky4church
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wtf

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #6 posted 09/13/19 9:01am

poppys

OldFriends4Sale said:

And then the people who say 'The religion of Islam is being singled out' and people shouldn't talk about it, and make clear statements that they are not attacking Islam, are some of the same ones that join in to attack Christianity, but never say 'Christianity is being singled out...'

.

Learn about Islam haters.


What? I hope you are not referring to me, because I was on both threads. Does anyone even read my posts? I don't hate Christianity or Islam, or any religion, and think it is ridiculous to reduce such topics to that granular of a level.

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Reply #7 posted 09/13/19 9:22am

deebee

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RodeoSchro said:

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.


I didn't read much of the other thread, so I can't comment on what was afoot there, but I'm not sure that that's it in general. The way I read it is that many people who are now atheists were once believers, and have had their own struggles with belief. So I think there can be a sense of incredulity and frustration when encountering others that haven't turned away from that and 'still' believe the very things one now thinks are wildly misleading - which one perhaps even now thinks were oppresssive or humiliating - and are so far at odds with those ideas that one now sees as credible and accurate.


And there's also, I suppose, just a straightforward issue about hearing people express beliefs that one regards as fundamentally incorrect and even deleterious - a little like how I can't wrap my head around how anyone would believe that voting for Trump or the Tories is a good idea. When I hear that, I really, really want to persuade that person that there's another way to see things.

Naturally, I think it's better to try to be polite and respectful when having these conversations, though I do understand how people's halos can slip with that. There's often something mindbending about what I call 'the otherness of other people', i.e. how one discovers that the friendly, intelligent people one interacts with on a daily basis are actually walking around holding dear beliefs that are totally at odds with those ideas that one holds to be fundamental to oneself, and no amount of what one feels is rational explaining will persuade them otherwise. (This could be the experience on either side of 'the divide', so to speak.) I often feel that there can be something genuinely unsettling about that, even though it's an ineluctable part of interacting with other people in our highly differentiated societies.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #8 posted 09/13/19 9:53am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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RodeoSchro said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Because Christianity is the religion in America and was taken over by imperial statism. The Bible is against systems and empire. The State killed Christ and the System of things reduces morality. Prince was right

The reason I defend Islam is because the west is ignorant about it.



So you are saying there is supposed to be a comma in "Learn about Islam haters", after the word "Islam"?

That's 2Freaky's world...

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #9 posted 09/13/19 10:13am

RodeoSchro

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2freaky4church1 said:

wtf



falloff

The burning spiritual question of the day springs from your thread, titled "Learn about Islam haters".

Your title as written means we are supposed to learn about those who hate Islam.

However, it's entirely possilbe you left out a comma and meant to title it "Learn about Islam, haters". That would mean you were calling your readers "haters" and were imploring them to learn about Islam.

Coming from you, this would make more sense.

SO TELL US - DID YOU LEAVE OUT A COMMA OR NOT?

falloff

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #10 posted 09/13/19 10:16am

RodeoSchro

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deebee said:

RodeoSchro said:

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.


I didn't read much of the other thread, so I can't comment on what was afoot there, but I'm not sure that that's it in general. The way I read it is that many people who are now atheists were once believers, and have had their own struggles with belief. So I think there can be a sense of incredulity and frustration when encountering others that haven't turned away from that and 'still' believe the very things one now thinks are wildly misleading - which one perhaps even now thinks were oppresssive or humiliating - and are so far at odds with those ideas that one now sees as credible and accurate.


And there's also, I suppose, just a straightforward issue about hearing people express beliefs that one regards as fundamentally incorrect and even deleterious - a little like how I can't wrap my head around how anyone would believe that voting for Trump or the Tories is a good idea. When I hear that, I really, really want to persuade that person that there's another way to see things.

Naturally, I think it's better to try to be polite and respectful when having these conversations, though I do understand how people's halos can slip with that. There's often something mindbending about what I call 'the otherness of other people', i.e. how one discovers that the friendly, intelligent people one interacts with on a daily basis are actually walking around holding dear beliefs that are totally at odds with those ideas that one holds to be fundamental to oneself, and no amount of what one feels is rational explaining will persuade them otherwise. (This could be the experience on either side of 'the divide', so to speak.) I often feel that there can be something genuinely unsettling about that, even though it's an ineluctable part of interacting with other people in our highly differentiated societies.



That's a thoughtful response and I appreciate it. Thanks!

I'm trying to understand why someone who doesn't believe gets so upset that there are those who do. So what? If we're wrong and there is nothing, then worst case is that if we're good Christians, we lived by the Ten Commandments and were good people. I'm not hurting anyone by being a good Christian and practicing the Ten Commandments.

And yet that seems to upset non-believers. My long-winded guess was that it's because they think we believers see them as bad people. Of course, the opposite is true.

.

[Edited 9/13/19 10:17am]

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #11 posted 09/13/19 10:36am

poppys

He posted a video in the OP with a Christian Pastor interviewing an Imam about Islam. So that was the learn part. He said as much in reply #7 here.

I asked the comma question on the thread, and other people wanted to know too. My guess is he meant the version with a comma. He wants to edit it, he just posted that he can't on the haters thread.

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Reply #12 posted 09/13/19 10:43am

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

deebee said:


I didn't read much of the other thread, so I can't comment on what was afoot there, but I'm not sure that that's it in general. The way I read it is that many people who are now atheists were once believers, and have had their own struggles with belief. So I think there can be a sense of incredulity and frustration when encountering others that haven't turned away from that and 'still' believe the very things one now thinks are wildly misleading - which one perhaps even now thinks were oppresssive or humiliating - and are so far at odds with those ideas that one now sees as credible and accurate.


And there's also, I suppose, just a straightforward issue about hearing people express beliefs that one regards as fundamentally incorrect and even deleterious - a little like how I can't wrap my head around how anyone would believe that voting for Trump or the Tories is a good idea. When I hear that, I really, really want to persuade that person that there's another way to see things.

Naturally, I think it's better to try to be polite and respectful when having these conversations, though I do understand how people's halos can slip with that. There's often something mindbending about what I call 'the otherness of other people', i.e. how one discovers that the friendly, intelligent people one interacts with on a daily basis are actually walking around holding dear beliefs that are totally at odds with those ideas that one holds to be fundamental to oneself, and no amount of what one feels is rational explaining will persuade them otherwise. (This could be the experience on either side of 'the divide', so to speak.) I often feel that there can be something genuinely unsettling about that, even though it's an ineluctable part of interacting with other people in our highly differentiated societies.



That's a thoughtful response and I appreciate it. Thanks!

I'm trying to understand why someone who doesn't believe gets so upset that there are those who do. So what? If we're wrong and there is nothing, then worst case is that if we're good Christians, we lived by the Ten Commandments and were good people. I'm not hurting anyone by being a good Christian and practicing the Ten Commandments.

And yet that seems to upset non-believers. My long-winded guess was that it's because they think we believers see them as bad people. Of course, the opposite is true.

.


No one posting on THIS thread so far is upset with religious people. I do not consider myself an atheist. I've said repeatedly I was raised Anabaptist but did not join the church, that's all. My grandmother wore the prayer cap her entire life and read the Bible every single day. Her father was Amish but he married a non-Amish, so he had to leave the church. That does not make him an atheist either. They became Bretherns and were not shunned in their community, although some are.

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Reply #13 posted 09/13/19 11:11am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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poppys said:

RodeoSchro said:



That's a thoughtful response and I appreciate it. Thanks!

I'm trying to understand why someone who doesn't believe gets so upset that there are those who do. So what? If we're wrong and there is nothing, then worst case is that if we're good Christians, we lived by the Ten Commandments and were good people. I'm not hurting anyone by being a good Christian and practicing the Ten Commandments.

And yet that seems to upset non-believers. My long-winded guess was that it's because they think we believers see them as bad people. Of course, the opposite is true.

.


No one posting on THIS thread so far is upset with religious people. I do not consider myself an atheist. I've said repeatedly I was raised Anabaptist but did not join the church, that's all. My grandmother wore the prayer cap her entire life and read the Bible every single day. Her father was Amish but he married a non-Amish, so he had to leave the church. That does not make him an atheist either. They became Bretherns and were not shunned in their community, although some are.

1 HIM is nothing but a fairy tale.

.

2 if you have a brother, a kid, close friend, who's already a grown up, halfway educated person with an IQ over 70, yet still believes in the Tooth Fairy or invisible unicorns? then it is your fucking duty trying to convince her/him, that he's "probably" wrong about it. that is NOT an act of evangelising
it's common sense, and based on the the pity we feel for them, trying to help them out from a deep black hole they are trapped in. like I would try to help friends who believe in 9/11 or Moon conspiracies, are addicted to drugs or members of the NRA or ISIS.

.

3 you are proving, that you live within a bubble, and think the dumb ones are on the outside, exactly like your next best conspiracy theorist

but good to know you would give jack shit about deluded family members or friends

.

.

.

. 4 Christianity actually advocates killing innocents, Islam only uses violence as self defense against attack.

.

I wonder why those who defended Islam did not refute or make commentary about these... I know you all saw them and passed over them.

.

In the thread on Islam, all a few of you did was attack Christianity (never Judaism) in a thread about Islam, and talk about white racists and Trump.

"all religions are bad/messed up etc" ...but the thread is about Islam, well I will talk about all of them (especially Christianity) da da da

.

It is the reason the other thread has so many blanks...the ones you all are complaining about now.

The religion of Islam is being singled out though

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #14 posted 09/13/19 11:38am

poppys

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:


No one posting on THIS thread so far is upset with religious people. I do not consider myself an atheist. I've said repeatedly I was raised Anabaptist but did not join the church, that's all. My grandmother wore the prayer cap her entire life and read the Bible every single day. Her father was Amish but he married a non-Amish, so he had to leave the church. That does not make him an atheist either. They became Bretherns and were not shunned in their community, although some are.

1 HIM is nothing but a fairy tale.

.

2 if you have a brother, a kid, close friend, who's already a grown up, halfway educated person with an IQ over 70, yet still believes in the Tooth Fairy or invisible unicorns? then it is your fucking duty trying to convince her/him, that he's "probably" wrong about it. that is NOT an act of evangelising
it's common sense, and based on the the pity we feel for them, trying to help them out from a deep black hole they are trapped in. like I would try to help friends who believe in 9/11 or Moon conspiracies, are addicted to drugs or members of the NRA or ISIS.

.

3 you are proving, that you live within a bubble, and think the dumb ones are on the outside, exactly like your next best conspiracy theorist

but good to know you would give jack shit about deluded family members or friends

.

. 4 Christianity actually advocates killing innocents, Islam only uses violence as self defense against attack.

.

I wonder why those who defended Islam did not refute or make commentary about these... I know you all saw them and passed over them.

.

In the thread on Islam, all a few of you did was attack Christianity (never Judaism) in a thread about Islam, and talk about white racists and Trump.

"all religions are bad/messed up etc" ...but the thread is about Islam, well I will talk about all of them (especially Christianity) da da da

.

It is the reason the other thread has so many blanks...the ones you all are complaining about now.

The religion of Islam is being singled out though


None of the 4 posts above were mine. I did not attack Christianity, it was a discussion. Org rules say we are to criticize ideas, not people. Since when are we obligated to call out every post on Prince.org we don't agree with? That would be impossible anyway.

The type of Christianity I was raised with teaches tolerance and non-violence. They were persecuted for hundreds of years (by other Christians), fled here, and still live with the scars. Probably why they are a closed cult to this day. I can't change my own history.

This is a public discussion board. Why are we being called out for not refuting other's posts?

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Reply #15 posted 09/13/19 11:41am

RodeoSchro

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poppys said:

RodeoSchro said:



That's a thoughtful response and I appreciate it. Thanks!

I'm trying to understand why someone who doesn't believe gets so upset that there are those who do. So what? If we're wrong and there is nothing, then worst case is that if we're good Christians, we lived by the Ten Commandments and were good people. I'm not hurting anyone by being a good Christian and practicing the Ten Commandments.

And yet that seems to upset non-believers. My long-winded guess was that it's because they think we believers see them as bad people. Of course, the opposite is true.

.


No one posting on THIS thread so far is upset with religious people. I do not consider myself an atheist. I've said repeatedly I was raised Anabaptist but did not join the church, that's all. My grandmother wore the prayer cap her entire life and read the Bible every single day. Her father was Amish but he married a non-Amish, so he had to leave the church. That does not make him an atheist either. They became Bretherns and were not shunned in their community, although some are.



I hope it stays that way! If so, it'll be an Org first and should be memorialized with some sort of home page acknowledgement, LOL.

"See? It CAN be done! Don't be afraid to visit P&R, sometimes it works!" biggrin

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #16 posted 09/13/19 12:12pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

1 HIM is nothing but a fairy tale.

.

2 if you have a brother, a kid, close friend, who's already a grown up, halfway educated person with an IQ over 70, yet still believes in the Tooth Fairy or invisible unicorns? then it is your fucking duty trying to convince her/him, that he's "probably" wrong about it. that is NOT an act of evangelising
it's common sense, and based on the the pity we feel for them, trying to help them out from a deep black hole they are trapped in. like I would try to help friends who believe in 9/11 or Moon conspiracies, are addicted to drugs or members of the NRA or ISIS.

.

3 you are proving, that you live within a bubble, and think the dumb ones are on the outside, exactly like your next best conspiracy theorist

but good to know you would give jack shit about deluded family members or friends

.

. 4 Christianity actually advocates killing innocents, Islam only uses violence as self defense against attack.

.

I wonder why those who defended Islam did not refute or make commentary about these... I know you all saw them and passed over them.

.

In the thread on Islam, all a few of you did was attack Christianity (never Judaism) in a thread about Islam, and talk about white racists and Trump.

"all religions are bad/messed up etc" ...but the thread is about Islam, well I will talk about all of them (especially Christianity) da da da

.

It is the reason the other thread has so many blanks...the ones you all are complaining about now.

The religion of Islam is being singled out though


None of the 4 posts above were mine. I did not attack Christianity, it was a discussion. Org rules say we are to criticize ideas, not people. Since when are we obligated to call out every post on Prince.org we don't agree with? That would be impossible anyway.

The type of Christianity I was raised with teaches tolerance and non-violence. They were persecuted for hundreds of years (by other Christians), fled here, and still live with the scars. Probably why they are a closed cult to this day. I can't change my own history.

This is a public discussion board. Why are we being called out for not refuting other's posts?

I know you didn't post them. I said, you and no one else who were 'defending and deflecting' for Islam in the other thread did the same about these posts about Christianity.

.

Ya'll went to bat for Islam, and brought up anti Christian stuff every chance you got, that is why the thread is so edited.

.

Why was the thread by 2Freaky accused by you especially of singling out Islam?

let me spell it out : D O U B L E S T A N D A R D S

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #17 posted 09/13/19 1:37pm

poppys

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:


None of the 4 posts above were mine. I did not attack Christianity, it was a discussion. Org rules say we are to criticize ideas, not people. Since when are we obligated to call out every post on Prince.org we don't agree with? That would be impossible anyway.

The type of Christianity I was raised with teaches tolerance and non-violence. They were persecuted for hundreds of years (by other Christians), fled here, and still live with the scars. Probably why they are a closed cult to this day. I can't change my own history.

This is a public discussion board. Why are we being called out for not refuting other's posts?

I know you didn't post them. I said, you and no one else who were 'defending and deflecting' for Islam in the other thread did the same about these posts about Christianity.

.

Ya'll went to bat for Islam, and brought up anti Christian stuff every chance you got, that is why the thread is so edited.

.

Why was the thread by 2Freaky accused by you especially of singling out Islam?

let me spell it out : D O U B L E S T A N D A R D S


You are going after me personally on Rodeo's Christianity thread for your opinion on what I said on 2freaky's Islam thread. What kind of standard is that?

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Reply #18 posted 09/13/19 2:21pm

IanRG

RodeoSchro said:

deebee said:


I didn't read much of the other thread, so I can't comment on what was afoot there, but I'm not sure that that's it in general. The way I read it is that many people who are now atheists were once believers, and have had their own struggles with belief. So I think there can be a sense of incredulity and frustration when encountering others that haven't turned away from that and 'still' believe the very things one now thinks are wildly misleading - which one perhaps even now thinks were oppresssive or humiliating - and are so far at odds with those ideas that one now sees as credible and accurate.


And there's also, I suppose, just a straightforward issue about hearing people express beliefs that one regards as fundamentally incorrect and even deleterious - a little like how I can't wrap my head around how anyone would believe that voting for Trump or the Tories is a good idea. When I hear that, I really, really want to persuade that person that there's another way to see things.

Naturally, I think it's better to try to be polite and respectful when having these conversations, though I do understand how people's halos can slip with that. There's often something mindbending about what I call 'the otherness of other people', i.e. how one discovers that the friendly, intelligent people one interacts with on a daily basis are actually walking around holding dear beliefs that are totally at odds with those ideas that one holds to be fundamental to oneself, and no amount of what one feels is rational explaining will persuade them otherwise. (This could be the experience on either side of 'the divide', so to speak.) I often feel that there can be something genuinely unsettling about that, even though it's an ineluctable part of interacting with other people in our highly differentiated societies.



That's a thoughtful response and I appreciate it. Thanks!

I'm trying to understand why someone who doesn't believe gets so upset that there are those who do. So what? If we're wrong and there is nothing, then worst case is that if we're good Christians, we lived by the Ten Commandments and were good people. I'm not hurting anyone by being a good Christian and practicing the Ten Commandments.

And yet that seems to upset non-believers. My long-winded guess was that it's because they think we believers see them as bad people. Of course, the opposite is true.

.

[Edited 9/13/19 10:17am]

.

Having once been a fundamentalist atheist and then finding my faith, I think there is a differnce between a non believer and an atheist, just as there is a difference between a believer and a "Bible basher" or equivalent in other religions. With a non believer it is just like us, if they are happy to talk about their beliefs then it is just an exhange of knowledge and ideas with no expectation of judgement or conversion.

.

My time as a fundamentalist atheist was like a jihad - A struggle of the mind. A battle between my soul, my God and my self. To me then it was not about what the others thought of me but me reflecting my internal struggle on them. And when I did that I needed to learn about why they believed to better criticise them. I was fortunate that in doing that I found my God and my self instead.

.

PS Poppys is not the problem here

[Edited 9/13/19 17:41pm]

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Reply #19 posted 09/13/19 2:21pm

guitarslinger4
4

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RodeoSchro said:



2freaky4church1 said:


wtf





falloff

The burning spiritual question of the day springs from your thread, titled "Learn about Islam haters".

Your title as written means we are supposed to learn about those who hate Islam.

However, it's entirely possilbe you left out a comma and meant to title it "Learn about Islam, haters". That would mean you were calling your readers "haters" and were imploring them to learn about Islam.

Coming from you, this would make more sense.

SO TELL US - DID YOU LEAVE OUT A COMMA OR NOT?

falloff



lol Funny cuz I assumed there was a comma missing too especially since he name checked me in the original post initially. Now I wonder... hmmm WTF is this timeline where were reading into 2freaky posts? lol

Anyway, I think far more often believers try to convert non believers than the other way around and because some believers are somewhat abusive in the way they do it, it puts a bad taste in people's mouths.

I'm not religious but i was a JW for a bit as a kid (we still celebrated Christmas and birthdays tho razz ) so that's been my only real personal experience with religion, but it was an eye opener, especially when my mum decided to leave. It caused some issues with some family members who were more hardcore about it than she was.

The interesting thing to me though is how secular folks will replace religion with activism, atheism, or other belief systems and behave much the same as hardcore religious fundamentalists when it comes to converting people. If someone doesn't believe in their beliefs or causes, they get treated much the same as someone who has no interest in converting to a religion, being told they're bad people, etc .

Tl;dr: Humans are a funny species.

[Edited 9/13/19 14:25pm]
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Reply #20 posted 09/13/19 2:32pm

toejam

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

I think I can put the atheists here at ease.

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.

But it's not accurate. Hell isn't only for the Hitlers of the world; it's for non-believers too. Sad as it is for some to hear, under the Christian belief you have to accept that it's possible there are billions of otherwise-good souls suffering in Hell only because of non-belief.

So, atheists - understand this. Christians believe Hell is for non-believers. Non-belief in and of itself doesn't define a person's character in any way - it's a spiritual issue. No Christian thinks that while you may be the most charitable, nicest, giving person in the world, you are a POS worthy of contempt if you don't believe in Jesus.

Take that off your worry list.

.

Hell as a literal place of eternal conscious suffering for the unfaithful makes no sense and completely contradicts the notion that "God is love". Even when I used to consider myself a Christian, I didn't believe in a literal hell. There are lots of forms of Christianity that don't believe in hell. You do not speak for all of Christianity. I also notice more and more Trinitarian Evangelicals coming out as Annihilationists in recent years - i.e. they're still Evangelicals in that they believe in the Trinity and that the Bible is the "word of God", etc., but they interpret it not as teaching eterncal conscious torment for the unfaithful like me, but instead that we will simply be 'extinguished' at some point along the line. Personally, I think evangelicals in either camp are misguided in their assumption that "the Bible" is somehow a reliable source for knowing what happens after we die.

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #21 posted 09/13/19 2:45pm

toejam

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^Further to the above: Rodeo, why do you believe Hell is a real place?

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
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Reply #22 posted 09/13/19 3:16pm

JoeyC

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Thanks for making this thread, Rodeo. Concerning religion, there's been a few things on my mind. I'm going to try to come up with a cohesive post before this thread gets locked. Hopefully it wont get locked, but you know how Religious threads sometimes turn out on here.

Rest in Peace Bettie Boo. See u soon.
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Reply #23 posted 09/13/19 3:32pm

IanRG

guitarslinger44 said:

RodeoSchro said:



falloff

The burning spiritual question of the day springs from your thread, titled "Learn about Islam haters".

Your title as written means we are supposed to learn about those who hate Islam.

However, it's entirely possilbe you left out a comma and meant to title it "Learn about Islam, haters". That would mean you were calling your readers "haters" and were imploring them to learn about Islam.

Coming from you, this would make more sense.

SO TELL US - DID YOU LEAVE OUT A COMMA OR NOT?

falloff

lol Funny cuz I assumed there was a comma missing too especially since he name checked me in the original post initially. Now I wonder... hmmm WTF is this timeline where were reading into 2freaky posts? lol Anyway, I think far more often believers try to convert non believers than the other way around and because some believers are somewhat abusive in the way they do it, it puts a bad taste in people's mouths. I'm not religious but i was a JW for a bit as a kid (we still celebrated Christmas and birthdays tho razz ) so that's been my only real personal experience with religion, but it was an eye opener, especially when my mum decided to leave. It caused some issues with some family members who were more hardcore about it than she was. The interesting thing to me though is how secular folks will replace religion with activism, atheism, or other belief systems and behave much the same as hardcore religious fundamentalists when it comes to converting people. If someone doesn't believe in their beliefs or causes, they get treated much the same as someone who has no interest in converting to a religion, being told they're bad people, etc . Tl;dr: Humans are a funny species. [Edited 9/13/19 14:25pm]

.

Leaving an organisation like the JWs can be tough.

.

A question if I may: Are you into Prince through the JW connection or is this separate?

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Reply #24 posted 09/13/19 4:09pm

EmmaMcG

avatar

RodeoSchro said:


Since jfenster's thread got locked, I'm starting a new one that I am sure will not be controversial in any way, shape or form. Yeah, right!

The thing I notice most on religion threads is that they usually end up with atheists attacking Christians. The atheists use terms like "Tooth Fairy" and "invisible unicorns" and "fact-resistant bubbles" to attack Christianity.

Why?

There have been many Orgers through the years who've used similar terms when discussing Christianity. All these terms are pretty harsh, and seem to me to spring from a place of fear or uncertainty, rather than from actual animosity.

jfenster, IanRG and I made it pretty clear in the former thread that we weren't trying to convert anyon to anything. We just wanted to present what we believe, and we hoped very much that it would be postively received.

It wasn't, obviously.

You know, you don't see a Muslim or a Jew telling Christians they believe in the Tooth Fairy, even though we certainly have different beliefs with respect to the Son of God. (We all know what radical Muslims believe, so let's not turn this into a political thread.)

It seems like the only people who use those kinds of terms are atheists.

And I think I know why. And I think I can put the atheists here at ease.

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.

But it's not accurate. Hell isn't only for the Hitlers of the world; it's for non-believers too. Sad as it is for some to hear, under the Christian belief you have to accept that it's possible there are billions of otherwise-good souls suffering in Hell only because of non-belief.

So, atheists - understand this. Christians believe Hell is for non-believers. Non-belief in and of itself doesn't define a person's character in any way - it's a spiritual issue. No Christian thinks that while you may be the most charitable, nicest, giving person in the world, you are a POS worthy of contempt if you don't believe in Jesus.

Take that off your worry list.

Never forget - Christians can repeat story after story after story about people who, on their death bed, saw the light and accepted Jesus Christ into their heart. So we know for a dead-solid fact that it's never too late.

Always remember that. Christians - my kind of Christians, anyway - hold out unextinguishable hope for each and every person. We do not equate non-belief with being a bad person.

I hope this helps!



For what it's worth, my uncle, a Catholic priest, doesn't believe that hell is for non believers. He's convinced that I'm going to heaven. Despite me being a non believer. Despite me breaking pretty much every commandment and committing every sin. He still believes that I'm going to heaven because I'm "a good mother, a good wife, a good sister and a good person".

Then again, he also believes that priests should be allowed to marry, that gay marriage is OK and that abortion should be a decision made by the mother and not the Church. Sometimes I question his devotion to the church. Lol.
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Reply #25 posted 09/13/19 4:21pm

guitarslinger4
4

avatar

IanRG said:



guitarslinger44 said:


RodeoSchro said:




falloff

The burning spiritual question of the day springs from your thread, titled "Learn about Islam haters".

Your title as written means we are supposed to learn about those who hate Islam.

However, it's entirely possilbe you left out a comma and meant to title it "Learn about Islam, haters". That would mean you were calling your readers "haters" and were imploring them to learn about Islam.

Coming from you, this would make more sense.

SO TELL US - DID YOU LEAVE OUT A COMMA OR NOT?

falloff



lol Funny cuz I assumed there was a comma missing too especially since he name checked me in the original post initially. Now I wonder... hmmm WTF is this timeline where were reading into 2freaky posts? lol Anyway, I think far more often believers try to convert non believers than the other way around and because some believers are somewhat abusive in the way they do it, it puts a bad taste in people's mouths. I'm not religious but i was a JW for a bit as a kid (we still celebrated Christmas and birthdays tho razz ) so that's been my only real personal experience with religion, but it was an eye opener, especially when my mum decided to leave. It caused some issues with some family members who were more hardcore about it than she was. The interesting thing to me though is how secular folks will replace religion with activism, atheism, or other belief systems and behave much the same as hardcore religious fundamentalists when it comes to converting people. If someone doesn't believe in their beliefs or causes, they get treated much the same as someone who has no interest in converting to a religion, being told they're bad people, etc . Tl;dr: Humans are a funny species. [Edited 9/13/19 14:25pm]

.


Leaving an organisation like the JWs can be tough.


.


A question if I may: Are you into Prince through the JW connection or is this separate?




I've heard some really awful stories from people who have left the organization. One guy I used to know was in for a long time and decided to leave and it basically pitted him against his whole family and basically turned his life into chaos. He was doing better last i knew but things were pretty grim for a long time.

I actually didn't know Princey was a Witness until years after I started listening to him, but I always wondered what made him choose thsy religion of all the ones available.
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Reply #26 posted 09/13/19 4:32pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I know you didn't post them. I said, you and no one else who were 'defending and deflecting' for Islam in the other thread did the same about these posts about Christianity.

.

Ya'll went to bat for Islam, and brought up anti Christian stuff every chance you got, that is why the thread is so edited.

.

Why was the thread by 2Freaky accused by you especially of singling out Islam?

let me spell it out : D O U B L E S T A N D A R D S


You are going after me personally on Rodeo's Christianity thread for your opinion on what I said on 2freaky's Islam thread. What kind of standard is that?

No it isn't personal. But the discussion is about how WE the org members in P&R respond.

I said YA'LL that means more than 1. That means everyone who fits the scenario.

.

Please, the way you and other go after OnlyNDusa? please

.

We are talking about the reaction to Islam vs Christianity in the few recent threads.
This thread isn't about what's happening out there in the world but about Org members reactions.

Your post #14, did you make it about you. When Rodeo didn't directly address you?

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #27 posted 09/13/19 4:45pm

IanRG

EmmaMcG said:

RodeoSchro said:


Since jfenster's thread got locked, I'm starting a new one that I am sure will not be controversial in any way, shape or form. Yeah, right!

The thing I notice most on religion threads is that they usually end up with atheists attacking Christians. The atheists use terms like "Tooth Fairy" and "invisible unicorns" and "fact-resistant bubbles" to attack Christianity.

Why?

There have been many Orgers through the years who've used similar terms when discussing Christianity. All these terms are pretty harsh, and seem to me to spring from a place of fear or uncertainty, rather than from actual animosity.

jfenster, IanRG and I made it pretty clear in the former thread that we weren't trying to convert anyon to anything. We just wanted to present what we believe, and we hoped very much that it would be postively received.

It wasn't, obviously.

You know, you don't see a Muslim or a Jew telling Christians they believe in the Tooth Fairy, even though we certainly have different beliefs with respect to the Son of God. (We all know what radical Muslims believe, so let's not turn this into a political thread.)

It seems like the only people who use those kinds of terms are atheists.

And I think I know why. And I think I can put the atheists here at ease.

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.

But it's not accurate. Hell isn't only for the Hitlers of the world; it's for non-believers too. Sad as it is for some to hear, under the Christian belief you have to accept that it's possible there are billions of otherwise-good souls suffering in Hell only because of non-belief.

So, atheists - understand this. Christians believe Hell is for non-believers. Non-belief in and of itself doesn't define a person's character in any way - it's a spiritual issue. No Christian thinks that while you may be the most charitable, nicest, giving person in the world, you are a POS worthy of contempt if you don't believe in Jesus.

Take that off your worry list.

Never forget - Christians can repeat story after story after story about people who, on their death bed, saw the light and accepted Jesus Christ into their heart. So we know for a dead-solid fact that it's never too late.

Always remember that. Christians - my kind of Christians, anyway - hold out unextinguishable hope for each and every person. We do not equate non-belief with being a bad person.

I hope this helps!

For what it's worth, my uncle, a Catholic priest, doesn't believe that hell is for non believers. He's convinced that I'm going to heaven. Despite me being a non believer. Despite me breaking pretty much every commandment and committing every sin. He still believes that I'm going to heaven because I'm "a good mother, a good wife, a good sister and a good person". Then again, he also believes that priests should be allowed to marry, that gay marriage is OK and that abortion should be a decision made by the mother and not the Church. Sometimes I question his devotion to the church. Lol.

.

As a practicing Catholic, I like you uncle.

.

As in the real world, there is a wide range of Catholics from ultra-conservatives to far left actual social justice warriors (ie not internet SJWs)

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Reply #28 posted 09/13/19 5:17pm

poppys

EmmaMcG said:

RodeoSchro said:


Since jfenster's thread got locked, I'm starting a new one that I am sure will not be controversial in any way, shape or form. Yeah, right!

The thing I notice most on religion threads is that they usually end up with atheists attacking Christians. The atheists use terms like "Tooth Fairy" and "invisible unicorns" and "fact-resistant bubbles" to attack Christianity.

Why?

There have been many Orgers through the years who've used similar terms when discussing Christianity. All these terms are pretty harsh, and seem to me to spring from a place of fear or uncertainty, rather than from actual animosity.

jfenster, IanRG and I made it pretty clear in the former thread that we weren't trying to convert anyon to anything. We just wanted to present what we believe, and we hoped very much that it would be postively received.

It wasn't, obviously.

You know, you don't see a Muslim or a Jew telling Christians they believe in the Tooth Fairy, even though we certainly have different beliefs with respect to the Son of God. (We all know what radical Muslims believe, so let's not turn this into a political thread.)

It seems like the only people who use those kinds of terms are atheists.

And I think I know why. And I think I can put the atheists here at ease.

What seems to set off atheists is the Christian belief that by not accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior, we Christians believe said atheists will spend eternity in Hell.

Hell, of course, is where the bad people go.

So it seems like atheists may be thinking, "If those Christians think I'm going to Hell, that means they think I am a BAD PERSON. And I'm not! But they think I am!" I can understand reacting harshly if an atheist thinks that's the way Christians think about them.

But it's not accurate. Hell isn't only for the Hitlers of the world; it's for non-believers too. Sad as it is for some to hear, under the Christian belief you have to accept that it's possible there are billions of otherwise-good souls suffering in Hell only because of non-belief.

So, atheists - understand this. Christians believe Hell is for non-believers. Non-belief in and of itself doesn't define a person's character in any way - it's a spiritual issue. No Christian thinks that while you may be the most charitable, nicest, giving person in the world, you are a POS worthy of contempt if you don't believe in Jesus.

Take that off your worry list.

Never forget - Christians can repeat story after story after story about people who, on their death bed, saw the light and accepted Jesus Christ into their heart. So we know for a dead-solid fact that it's never too late.

Always remember that. Christians - my kind of Christians, anyway - hold out unextinguishable hope for each and every person. We do not equate non-belief with being a bad person.

I hope this helps!

For what it's worth, my uncle, a Catholic priest, doesn't believe that hell is for non believers. He's convinced that I'm going to heaven. Despite me being a non believer. Despite me breaking pretty much every commandment and committing every sin. He still believes that I'm going to heaven because I'm "a good mother, a good wife, a good sister and a good person". Then again, he also believes that priests should be allowed to marry, that gay marriage is OK and that abortion should be a decision made by the mother and not the Church. Sometimes I question his devotion to the church. Lol.



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Reply #29 posted 09/13/19 5:29pm

poppys

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:


You are going after me personally on Rodeo's Christianity thread for your opinion on what I said on 2freaky's Islam thread. What kind of standard is that?

No it isn't personal. But the discussion is about how WE the org members in P&R respond.

I said YA'LL that means more than 1. That means everyone who fits the scenario.

.

Please, the way you and other go after OnlyNDusa? please

.

We are talking about the reaction to Islam vs Christianity in the few recent threads.
This thread isn't about what's happening out there in the world but about Org members reactions.

Your post #14, did you make it about you. When Rodeo didn't directly address you?


Rodeo started the thread. I posted on it. What do you mean about reply #14? I sincerely do not get it.

Except - this is about Only? Probably one of the most prolific bullshitters on this board? I've never told Only to delete his account....why me??

Debate is an art - just like any other art. But there are guidelines, c'mon. Think I'll start a thread about it, because it seems to be a very misunderstood part of this forum.


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