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Reply #90 posted 09/11/19 2:18pm

guitarslinger4
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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:

uPtoWnNY said: Are you talking about people in office or just rank and file? Either way, those people seem fringe in this day and age, and are probably people old enough to remember the "welfare queens" marketing Reagan and his team did.

I would say pretty much all of them- you ask any "conservative" person who is the "underserving " poor collecting welfare, and they'll usually make it seem as if it's only minorities. They've done a good job since Reagan (and probably even before him) of using divisive rhatoric to demonize some people, and let others off the hook, or make them think that they are on their side....Trump is just the ultimate manifestation of this mindset


So every conservative or republican sees black people as "undeserving poor collecting welfare?" They have a word for that... hmmm I think a lot of conservative people tend to stick closer to home and to where they grew up, so they don't see as much as someone who moves out and travels.

Anyway, I think a lot of it is about getting votes. Politicians play to the demographics they need to win elections and until blacks start voting for more republicans, the republicans will probably use them to get the vote of poorer/less educated/lower to middle class white people. I'm not saying it's right or good, but it seems like to me anyway that it's strictly business where politics is concerned, at least for most politicians.

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Reply #91 posted 09/11/19 3:20pm

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:

jjhunsecker said:

I would say pretty much all of them- you ask any "conservative" person who is the "underserving " poor collecting welfare, and they'll usually make it seem as if it's only minorities. They've done a good job since Reagan (and probably even before him) of using divisive rhatoric to demonize some people, and let others off the hook, or make them think that they are on their side....Trump is just the ultimate manifestation of this mindset


So every conservative or republican sees black people as "undeserving poor collecting welfare?" They have a word for that... hmmm I think a lot of conservative people tend to stick closer to home and to where they grew up, so they don't see as much as someone who moves out and travels.

Anyway, I think a lot of it is about getting votes. Politicians play to the demographics they need to win elections and until blacks start voting for more republicans, the republicans will probably use them to get the vote of poorer/less educated/lower to middle class white people. I'm not saying it's right or good, but it seems like to me anyway that it's strictly business where politics is concerned, at least for most politicians.

Not EVERY conservative....but a lot. Look at 2016....


I actually thought that Republicans once had a good chance with getting support from Conservative Blacks and Latinos, especially those who are very religious. But many people who are possible supporters were turned off by the overt bigotry that they have seen from the Republican Party- from Nixon to Reagan and the "welfare queens" and Bush with Willie Horton, and now the undisguised White Supremacy of Donald Trump...not to mention politicians below the Presidential level (and commentators such as those on Fox and talk radio as well). Most people are not going to ally themselves with those who openly demonize and attack them.


What you see as "strictly business" has caused huge divides in this country, and has caused harm to many , including the poor whites who support them. What did Lyndon Johnson once say : "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[Edited 9/11/19 15:26pm]

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Reply #92 posted 09/11/19 3:30pm

guitarslinger4
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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:


So every conservative or republican sees black people as "undeserving poor collecting welfare?" They have a word for that... hmmm I think a lot of conservative people tend to stick closer to home and to where they grew up, so they don't see as much as someone who moves out and travels.

Anyway, I think a lot of it is about getting votes. Politicians play to the demographics they need to win elections and until blacks start voting for more republicans, the republicans will probably use them to get the vote of poorer/less educated/lower to middle class white people. I'm not saying it's right or good, but it seems like to me anyway that it's strictly business where politics is concerned, at least for most politicians.

Not EVERY conservative....but a lot. Look at 2016....


I actually thought that Republicans once had a good chance with getting support from Conservative Blacks and Latinos, especially those who are very religious. But many people who are possible supporters were turned off by the overt bigotry that they have seen from the Republican Party- from Nixon to Reagan and the "welfare queens" and Bush with Willie Horton, and now the undisguised White Supremacy of Donald Trump...not to mention politicians below the Presidential level (and commentators such as those on Fox and talk radio as well). Most people are not going to ally themselves with those who openly demonize and attack them.


What you see as "strictly business" has caused huge divides in this country, and has caused harm to many , including the poor whites who support them. What did Lyndon Johnson once say : "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[Edited 9/11/19 15:26pm]



I think the republican party is going to change at some point, which will be good not only for them, but it'll be better for non-whites because then the democrats will actually have to do something to get those votes rather than just pay lip service to helping them like they always have.

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Reply #93 posted 09/11/19 3:42pm

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:

jjhunsecker said:

Not EVERY conservative....but a lot. Look at 2016....


I actually thought that Republicans once had a good chance with getting support from Conservative Blacks and Latinos, especially those who are very religious. But many people who are possible supporters were turned off by the overt bigotry that they have seen from the Republican Party- from Nixon to Reagan and the "welfare queens" and Bush with Willie Horton, and now the undisguised White Supremacy of Donald Trump...not to mention politicians below the Presidential level (and commentators such as those on Fox and talk radio as well). Most people are not going to ally themselves with those who openly demonize and attack them.


What you see as "strictly business" has caused huge divides in this country, and has caused harm to many , including the poor whites who support them. What did Lyndon Johnson once say : "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[Edited 9/11/19 15:26pm]



I think the republican party is going to change at some point, which will be good not only for them, but it'll be better for non-whites because then the democrats will actually have to do something to get those votes rather than just pay lip service to helping them like they always have.

Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.

Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !

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Reply #94 posted 09/11/19 3:47pm

guitarslinger4
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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:



I think the republican party is going to change at some point, which will be good not only for them, but it'll be better for non-whites because then the democrats will actually have to do something to get those votes rather than just pay lip service to helping them like they always have.

Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.

Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !


I think it's really easy (and dangerous) to reductively boil down Trump's appeal to being racist.

But yeah, if there's less of a stigma on non-whites voting republican and republicans toning some of that messaging down or eliminating it altogether, I think they really have a chance. I really do think it will change, especially after Trump's gone.

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Reply #95 posted 09/11/19 5:25pm

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:

jjhunsecker said:

Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.

Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !


I think it's really easy (and dangerous) to reductively boil down Trump's appeal to being racist.

But yeah, if there's less of a stigma on non-whites voting republican and republicans toning some of that messaging down or eliminating it altogether, I think they really have a chance. I really do think it will change, especially after Trump's gone.

I don't reductively boil down Trump's support purely to racism...but it has been shown that the biggest indicator of people's support for Trump was racial animus. This was a bigger predicator than class or income or education.

I never would say that ALL Trump's supporters are bigots. I WILL say that his supporters didn't (and still don't) seem to be repelled by HIS open bigotry

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Reply #96 posted 09/12/19 2:37am

deebee

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jjhunsecker said:

deebee said:

Wow - sorry to hear that. What a mad, mad world it is.

2E and I are probably roughly the same age, and grew up in relative proximity. I recall all these types of things happening as well

Yeah, I thought that - you've mentioned some of those kinds of encounters over the years. A lot to witness, and I should imagine it leaves an impression.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #97 posted 09/12/19 4:28am

deebee

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2elijah said:

deebee said:

Wow - sorry to hear that. What a mad, mad world it is.

Thanks Deebee, but don’t be sorry, it all just made me stronger. All the kids on my block played together, despite the times, and regardless of our White friends’ families moving away. It was a life lesson that taught me as a child, that the world was not always kind. None of my experiences with racial prejudice growing up, took away my courage or ability to keep going. If anything it made me stronger, because I refused to believe all the ignorant, racist nonsense I heard out loud, and so I challenged it by not allowing it to stop me from going after opportunities of interest. I believe that anything is possible, because ‘you’ have to make it happen. That’s how I survived that thing called ‘racism.’ You have to believe in yourself, and not allow anyone to devalue your existence, based on your racial identity. In this life, I have met many people from various racial groups, religions, cultures, etc., that have been kind to me. I hav also met many who weren’t. There exists in this world, good and bad humans, and they come in all colors, sizes and shapes. [Edited 9/9/19 12:03pm]

That's good. Kudos to yourself, JJ, and others for coming through that stuff, anyway.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #98 posted 09/12/19 5:59am

poppys

jjhunsecker said:

Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.

Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !


Agree. Republicans are running out of gas for this kind of party identity. I don't think millennials have any interest in keeping that rhetoric in place. They will move on.

That's why the old farts are so bent on breaking all the rules now, such as Mitch the Bitch refusing Obama's USSC nom. And, as has been noted on the forum multiple times, US voters will soon not reflect a majority white population.

[Edited 9/12/19 6:03am]

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Reply #99 posted 09/12/19 8:36am

jjhunsecker

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deebee said:

jjhunsecker said:

2E and I are probably roughly the same age, and grew up in relative proximity. I recall all these types of things happening as well

Yeah, I thought that - you've mentioned some of those kinds of encounters over the years. A lot to witness, and I should imagine it leaves an impression.

Those were crazy times...some great memories from my youth. But there was a lot of tension as well.

To give you an idea of the envoronment I grew up in , Google the following :

Willie Turks Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY

Michael Griffith Howard Beach NY

Yusuf Hawkins Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY

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Reply #100 posted 09/12/19 8:40am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:



guitarslinger44 said:




jjhunsecker said:




Not EVERY conservative....but a lot. Look at 2016....




I actually thought that Republicans once had a good chance with getting support from Conservative Blacks and Latinos, especially those who are very religious. But many people who are possible supporters were turned off by the overt bigotry that they have seen from the Republican Party- from Nixon to Reagan and the "welfare queens" and Bush with Willie Horton, and now the undisguised White Supremacy of Donald Trump...not to mention politicians below the Presidential level (and commentators such as those on Fox and talk radio as well). Most people are not going to ally themselves with those who openly demonize and attack them.




What you see as "strictly business" has caused huge divides in this country, and has caused harm to many , including the poor whites who support them. What did Lyndon Johnson once say : "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."


[Edited 9/11/19 15:26pm]





I think the republican party is going to change at some point, which will be good not only for them, but it'll be better for non-whites because then the democrats will actually have to do something to get those votes rather than just pay lip service to helping them like they always have.




Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.



Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !


Somehow I don’t see that changing in the near future. They’ve already done enough damage to keep non-White voters away. Especially with their silence on trump’s rhetoric. We already know that if Obama or any other democrat said those things, the repubs would be up in arms, although I don’t know why since many of them seem to have no problem with trump’s racist rhetoric, and they know he’s not apologetic about any of it. Trump’s true colors is always out in the open, even while wearing his orange juice make up. But that’s a whole ‘nother topic.
“Uncomfortable conversations creates change” — Anonymous
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Reply #101 posted 09/12/19 8:53am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:



deebee said:




jjhunsecker said:




2E and I are probably roughly the same age, and grew up in relative proximity. I recall all these types of things happening as well



Yeah, I thought that - you've mentioned some of those kinds of encounters over the years. A lot to witness, and I should imagine it leaves an impression.




Those were crazy times...some great memories from my youth. But there was a lot of tension as well.



To give you an idea of the envoronment I grew up in , Google the following :



Willie Turks Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY


Michael Griffith Howard Beach NY


Yusuf Hawkins Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY


The Michael Griffith incident still hurts my stomach. The Yusuf Hawkins incident is one of the reasons I left NYC for 5 years. It sickened me to watch those racist, Brooklyn residents making racist comments and displaying mockery about Blacks in front of the tv.

I can’t even remember William Turks incident.

What I do remember is 10 year old Clifford Glover shot in the back by a racist cop, and the cop’s companion was heard on the police radio, standing over Clifford’s body saying ‘Die, you little bastard!”. That incident traumatized me for life, and I never forgot the child’s name, because as a young adult I remember asking myself how could a cop kill a child? The officer was acquitted, but fired from NYPD. The jury was 11 Whites, and 1 Black juror. I wasn’t afraid of cops before that incident, but that tragedy left me with not trusting them much, and ironically that was the time my oldest brother was a cop.

Clifford didn’t live far from my community. Whenever I took the bus through his neighborhood, I always had to pass the funeral home where the service for him was held, and that was always a reminder. It’s sad so many today don’t remember or even know about that incident that happened in Queens, NY. Sometimes I don’t know how some of us made it through those rough times, and still had to go on with our lives. #RIPCliffordGlover

(I don’t mean to take the thread off-topic, but all this was happening all through the White Flight era)


https://www.google.com/am...utType=amp
[Edited 9/12/19 9:10am]
“Uncomfortable conversations creates change” — Anonymous
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Reply #102 posted 09/12/19 9:10am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:

Those were crazy times...some great memories from my youth. But there was a lot of tension as well.

To give you an idea of the envoronment I grew up in , Google the following :

Willie Turks Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY

Michael Griffith Howard Beach NY

Yusuf Hawkins Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY

The Michael Griffith incident still hurts my stomach. The Yusuf Hawkins incident is one of the reasons I left NYC for 5 years. It sickened me to watch those racist, Brooklyn residents making racist comments and displaying mockery about Blacks in front of the tv. I can’t even remember William Turks incident. What I do remember is 10 year old Clifford Glover shot in the back by a racist cop, who was heard on the police radio, standing over Clifford’s body saying ‘Die, you little bastard!”. That incident traumatized me for life, and I never forgot the child’s name, because as a young adult I remember asking myself how could a cop kill a child? The officer was acquitted, but fired from NYPD. I wasn’t afraid of cops before that incident, but that tragedy left me with not trusting them much, and ironically that was the time my oldest brother was a cop. Clifford didn’t live far from my community. Whenever I took the bus through his neighborhood, I always had to pass the funeral home where the service for him was held, and that was always a reminder. It’s sad so many today don’t remember or even know about that incident that happened in Queens, NY. Sometimes I don’t know how some of us made it through those rough times, and still had to go on with our lives. #RIPCliffordGlover https://www.google.com/am...utType=amp [Edited 9/12/19 9:03am]

I almost forgot about the Clifford Glover incident. Now it's all coming back to me. God, that is so fucking horrible. And remember Eleanor Bumpers, the elderly woman, apparently suffering from dementia, who was weilding a knife in her apartment ? The cops first blew her arm off, and then blasted her., killing her instantly

Willie Turks was an MTA employee. He and 2 other black co-workers were attacked outside a bagel shop in Brooklyn by an Italian gang, and Mr. Turks was beaten to death.

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Reply #103 posted 09/12/19 9:17am

2elijah

avatar

jjhunsecker said:



2elijah said:


jjhunsecker said:



Those were crazy times...some great memories from my youth. But there was a lot of tension as well.



To give you an idea of the envoronment I grew up in , Google the following :



Willie Turks Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY


Michael Griffith Howard Beach NY


Yusuf Hawkins Bensonhurst Brooklyn NY



The Michael Griffith incident still hurts my stomach. The Yusuf Hawkins incident is one of the reasons I left NYC for 5 years. It sickened me to watch those racist, Brooklyn residents making racist comments and displaying mockery about Blacks in front of the tv. I can’t even remember William Turks incident. What I do remember is 10 year old Clifford Glover shot in the back by a racist cop, who was heard on the police radio, standing over Clifford’s body saying ‘Die, you little bastard!”. That incident traumatized me for life, and I never forgot the child’s name, because as a young adult I remember asking myself how could a cop kill a child? The officer was acquitted, but fired from NYPD. I wasn’t afraid of cops before that incident, but that tragedy left me with not trusting them much, and ironically that was the time my oldest brother was a cop. Clifford didn’t live far from my community. Whenever I took the bus through his neighborhood, I always had to pass the funeral home where the service for him was held, and that was always a reminder. It’s sad so many today don’t remember or even know about that incident that happened in Queens, NY. Sometimes I don’t know how some of us made it through those rough times, and still had to go on with our lives. #RIPCliffordGlover https://www.google.com/am...utType=amp [Edited 9/12/19 9:03am]


I almost forgot about the Clifford Glover incident. Now it's all coming back to me. God, that is so fucking horrible. And remember Eleanor Bumpers, the elderly woman, apparently suffering from dementia, who was weilding a knife in her apartment ? The cops first blew her arm off, and then blasted her., killing her instantly



Willie Turks was an MTA employee. He and 2 other black co-workers were attacked outside a bagel shop in Brooklyn by an Italian gang, and Mr. Turks was beaten to death.


Yes, sadly, I remember the Eleanor Bumpurs incident. And that was in 1984. Wow about the Turks incident, horrible. Those were some really, racist hard times in NYC, and all these incidents were after the civil rights movement. The 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s. sigh Similar incidents... still happening. The list and memories..too long.

Some people really don’t know about NYC’s long, racist history. The segregated towns, the white flight of the late 60s, the 70s and 80s, years of police brutality incidents against Blacks. We’ve heard about the south’s history of being terrible, but in my opinion, it was just as bad in NYC, because we still have ‘the silent racism’ here, along with segregated public schools, although it’s a multiracial city.
[Edited 9/12/19 9:26am]
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Reply #104 posted 09/12/19 9:17am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:

Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.

Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !

Somehow I don’t see that changing in the near future. They’ve already done enough damage to keep non-White voters away. Especially with their silence on trump’s rhetoric. We already know that if Obama or any other democrat said those things, the repubs would be up in arms, although I don’t know why since many of them seem to have no problem with trump’s racist rhetoric, and they know he’s not apologetic about any of it. Trump’s true colors is always out in the open, even while wearing his orange juice make up. But that’s a whole ‘nother topic.

Very true. Most Black and Latin and Asian people hear the rhetoric from Trump, and the silence and acquiesence of most other Republicans, and realize that this is not a welcoming home for them.

Like Trump calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocohontas"...just imagine if Obama had referred to Marco Rubio as "Little Ricky" or Eric Cantor as "Tevye" or "Fagin"...

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Reply #105 posted 09/12/19 9:21am

2elijah

avatar

jjhunsecker said:



2elijah said:


jjhunsecker said:



Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.



Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !



Somehow I don’t see that changing in the near future. They’ve already done enough damage to keep non-White voters away. Especially with their silence on trump’s rhetoric. We already know that if Obama or any other democrat said those things, the repubs would be up in arms, although I don’t know why since many of them seem to have no problem with trump’s racist rhetoric, and they know he’s not apologetic about any of it. Trump’s true colors is always out in the open, even while wearing his orange juice make up. But that’s a whole ‘nother topic.


Very true. Most Black and Latin and Asian people hear the rhetoric from Trump, and the silence and acquiesence of most other Republicans, and realize that this is not a welcoming home for them.



Like Trump calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocohontas"...just imagine if Obama had referred to Marco Rubio as "Little Ricky" or Eric Cantor as "Tevye" or "Fagin"...


Agree.
“Uncomfortable conversations creates change” — Anonymous
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Reply #106 posted 09/12/19 9:44am

poppys

Eleanor Bumpurs disbelief Horrible. I had moved to the Lower East Side by then.

The shooting of Eleanor Bumpurs by the New York Police Department occurred on October 29, 1984. The police were present to enforce a city-ordered eviction of Bumpurs, an elderly, disabled African American woman, from her public housing apartment in the Bronx. In requesting NYPD assistance, housing authority workers told police that Bumpurs was emotionally disturbed, had threatened to throw boiling lye, and was using a knife to resist eviction. When Bumpurs refused to open the door, police broke in. In the struggle to subdue her, one officer fatally shot Bumpurs twice with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Bumpurs' shooting, one of several black deaths that inflamed racial tensions in 1980s New York, led to changes within the police department regarding responses to disabled and emotionally volatile persons. Officer Stephen Sullivan, who shot Bumpurs, was indicted on second-degree manslaughter, but was ultimately acquitted. Bumpurs' family sued the city for $10 million in damages, and settled for $200,000. wiki

[Edited 9/12/19 9:50am]

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Reply #107 posted 09/12/19 10:43am

uPtoWnNY

guitarslinger44 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

You'd never know that from listening to the right-wing dickheads bitching about n*****s & s***s on welfare. They love demonizing the poor who don't look like them.

Are you talking about people in office or just rank and file? Either way, those people seem fringe in this day and age, and are probably people old enough to remember the "welfare queens" marketing Reagan and his team did.

Both

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Reply #108 posted 09/12/19 10:50am

uPtoWnNY

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:

Actually, when the Republicans were shellacked in 2012, they did an autopsy of their failure, and stated that their inabilty to gain support with minorites- specifically Blacks and Latinos and Asians- was one of the causes of their loss.

Then 2016 happened, and an unrepetant White Supremacist was the Republican's choice....Good luck with them getting minority support any time in the forseeable future !

Somehow I don’t see that changing in the near future. They’ve already done enough damage to keep non-White voters away. Especially with their silence on trump’s rhetoric. We already know that if Obama or any other democrat said those things, the repubs would be up in arms, although I don’t know why since many of them seem to have no problem with trump’s racist rhetoric, and they know he’s not apologetic about any of it. Trump’s true colors is always out in the open, even while wearing his orange juice make up. But that’s a whole ‘nother topic.

Never going to happen....NEVER.

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Reply #109 posted 09/12/19 11:34am

guitarslinger4
4

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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:


I think it's really easy (and dangerous) to reductively boil down Trump's appeal to being racist.

But yeah, if there's less of a stigma on non-whites voting republican and republicans toning some of that messaging down or eliminating it altogether, I think they really have a chance. I really do think it will change, especially after Trump's gone.

I don't reductively boil down Trump's support purely to racism...but it has been shown that the biggest indicator of people's support for Trump was racial animus. This was a bigger predicator than class or income or education.

I never would say that ALL Trump's supporters are bigots. I WILL say that his supporters didn't (and still don't) seem to be repelled by HIS open bigotry


Where has that been shown? I don't think that's anything specific to him though, racists tend to vote republican in general a lot more than democrat.

Ilhan Omar has out in the open bigotry and she still got voted into Congress, so apparently don't seem to put off by it no matter where it shows up.

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Reply #110 posted 09/12/19 11:56am

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:

jjhunsecker said:

I don't reductively boil down Trump's support purely to racism...but it has been shown that the biggest indicator of people's support for Trump was racial animus. This was a bigger predicator than class or income or education.

I never would say that ALL Trump's supporters are bigots. I WILL say that his supporters didn't (and still don't) seem to be repelled by HIS open bigotry


Where has that been shown? I don't think that's anything specific to him though, racists tend to vote republican in general a lot more than democrat.

Ilhan Omar has out in the open bigotry and she still got voted into Congress, so apparently don't seem to put off by it no matter where it shows up.

https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/" target="_blank">https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/

"Our analysis shows Trump accelerated a realignment in the electorate around racism, across several different measures of racial animus—and that it helped him win. By contrast, we found little evidence to suggest individual economic distress benefited Trump. The American political system is sorting so that racial progressivism and economic progressivism are aligned in the Democratic Party and racial conservatism and economic conservatism are aligned in the Republican Party."

WHAT WE FOUND: IT’S RACIAL ANIMUS, NOT ECONOMIC ANXIETY

"In our models, racial attitudes towards blacks and immigration are the key factors associated with support for Trump. The way that these variables impact Trump support can be seen in the charts below. Both racial resentment and black influence animosity are significant predictors of Trump support among white respondents, independent of partisanship, ideology, education levels, and the other factors included in the model. The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity. This compares to less than 30 percent chance for a typical white voter with below average scores on either of the two measures anti-black attitudes. There is approximately a 10 percent probability of a Trump vote for an otherwise typical white voter at the lowest levels of racial resentment."



[Edited 9/12/19 12:03pm]

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Reply #111 posted 09/12/19 3:27pm

guitarslinger4
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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:


Where has that been shown? I don't think that's anything specific to him though, racists tend to vote republican in general a lot more than democrat.

Ilhan Omar has out in the open bigotry and she still got voted into Congress, so apparently don't seem to put off by it no matter where it shows up.

https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/" target="_blank">https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/

"Our analysis shows Trump accelerated a realignment in the electorate around racism, across several different measures of racial animus—and that it helped him win. By contrast, we found little evidence to suggest individual economic distress benefited Trump. The American political system is sorting so that racial progressivism and economic progressivism are aligned in the Democratic Party and racial conservatism and economic conservatism are aligned in the Republican Party."

WHAT WE FOUND: IT’S RACIAL ANIMUS, NOT ECONOMIC ANXIETY

"In our models, racial attitudes towards blacks and immigration are the key factors associated with support for Trump. The way that these variables impact Trump support can be seen in the charts below. Both racial resentment and black influence animosity are significant predictors of Trump support among white respondents, independent of partisanship, ideology, education levels, and the other factors included in the model. The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity. This compares to less than 30 percent chance for a typical white voter with below average scores on either of the two measures anti-black attitudes. There is approximately a 10 percent probability of a Trump vote for an otherwise typical white voter at the lowest levels of racial resentment."



[Edited 9/12/19 12:03pm]


Interesting, thanks for posting that.

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Reply #112 posted 09/14/19 8:12am

uPtoWnNY

guitarslinger44 said:

jjhunsecker said:

https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/" target="_blank">https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/

"Our analysis shows Trump accelerated a realignment in the electorate around racism, across several different measures of racial animus—and that it helped him win. By contrast, we found little evidence to suggest individual economic distress benefited Trump. The American political system is sorting so that racial progressivism and economic progressivism are aligned in the Democratic Party and racial conservatism and economic conservatism are aligned in the Republican Party."

WHAT WE FOUND: IT’S RACIAL ANIMUS, NOT ECONOMIC ANXIETY

"In our models, racial attitudes towards blacks and immigration are the key factors associated with support for Trump. The way that these variables impact Trump support can be seen in the charts below. Both racial resentment and black influence animosity are significant predictors of Trump support among white respondents, independent of partisanship, ideology, education levels, and the other factors included in the model. The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity. This compares to less than 30 percent chance for a typical white voter with below average scores on either of the two measures anti-black attitudes. There is approximately a 10 percent probability of a Trump vote for an otherwise typical white voter at the lowest levels of racial resentment."



[Edited 9/12/19 12:03pm]


Interesting, thanks for posting that.

This is no different from what the GOP has done in the past (Reagan's welfare queens, Willie Horton). They're experts at playing upon racial fears/resentment. Stanley Crouch calls it 'redneck politics'. Jesse Helms was a master at it, airing political ads about 'unqualified minorities' getting jobs over whites. Trump is just continuing the tradition. And the GOP has the audacity to ask why most black Americans don't trust them.

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Reply #113 posted 09/14/19 11:02am

guitarslinger4
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uPtoWnNY said:



guitarslinger44 said:




jjhunsecker said:




https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/" target="_blank">https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/



"Our analysis shows Trump accelerated a realignment in the electorate around racism, across several different measures of racial animus—and that it helped him win. By contrast, we found little evidence to suggest individual economic distress benefited Trump. The American political system is sorting so that racial progressivism and economic progressivism are aligned in the Democratic Party and racial conservatism and economic conservatism are aligned in the Republican Party."



WHAT WE FOUND: IT’S RACIAL ANIMUS, NOT ECONOMIC ANXIETY

"In our models, racial attitudes towards blacks and immigration are the key factors associated with support for Trump. The way that these variables impact Trump support can be seen in the charts below. Both racial resentment and black influence animosity are significant predictors of Trump support among white respondents, independent of partisanship, ideology, education levels, and the other factors included in the model. The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity. This compares to less than 30 percent chance for a typical white voter with below average scores on either of the two measures anti-black attitudes. There is approximately a 10 percent probability of a Trump vote for an otherwise typical white voter at the lowest levels of racial resentment."





[Edited 9/12/19 12:03pm]




Interesting, thanks for posting that.




This is no different from what the GOP has done in the past (Reagan's welfare queens, Willie Horton). They're experts at playing upon racial fears/resentment. Stanley Crouch calls it 'redneck politics'. Jesse Helms was a master at it, airing political ads about 'unqualified minorities' getting jobs over whites. Trump is just continuing the tradition. And the GOP has the audacity to ask why most black Americans don't trust them.



Yeah I can absolutely understand why black folks don't trust the GOP, though I hope younger candidates get in and help to change that. As bad as Trump is, he may be the break point that helps the party modernize, which could only be good.
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Reply #114 posted 09/14/19 12:26pm

uPtoWnNY

^In the 1985 New Jersey election for governor, 62% of black voters supported Republican Tom Kean. For a Republican to do that well with black folks (in the Reagan era) was unheard of. If moderates like Kean and the late Jack Kemp had more power in the GOP, you'd definitely see a change. But it'll never happen with the hard-liners in control. They won't do anything to piss off their white, southern base,

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Reply #115 posted 09/14/19 2:02pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

guitarslinger44 said:

uPtoWnNY said:



guitarslinger44 said:




jjhunsecker said:




https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/" target="_blank">https://www.thenation.com...acism-did/



"Our analysis shows Trump accelerated a realignment in the electorate around racism, across several different measures of racial animus—and that it helped him win. By contrast, we found little evidence to suggest individual economic distress benefited Trump. The American political system is sorting so that racial progressivism and economic progressivism are aligned in the Democratic Party and racial conservatism and economic conservatism are aligned in the Republican Party."



WHAT WE FOUND: IT’S RACIAL ANIMUS, NOT ECONOMIC ANXIETY

"In our models, racial attitudes towards blacks and immigration are the key factors associated with support for Trump. The way that these variables impact Trump support can be seen in the charts below. Both racial resentment and black influence animosity are significant predictors of Trump support among white respondents, independent of partisanship, ideology, education levels, and the other factors included in the model. The results indicate a probability of Trump support higher than 60 percent for an otherwise typical white voter who scores at the highest levels on either anti-black racial resentment or anti-black influence animosity. This compares to less than 30 percent chance for a typical white voter with below average scores on either of the two measures anti-black attitudes. There is approximately a 10 percent probability of a Trump vote for an otherwise typical white voter at the lowest levels of racial resentment."





[Edited 9/12/19 12:03pm]




Interesting, thanks for posting that.




This is no different from what the GOP has done in the past (Reagan's welfare queens, Willie Horton). They're experts at playing upon racial fears/resentment. Stanley Crouch calls it 'redneck politics'. Jesse Helms was a master at it, airing political ads about 'unqualified minorities' getting jobs over whites. Trump is just continuing the tradition. And the GOP has the audacity to ask why most black Americans don't trust them.



Yeah I can absolutely understand why black folks don't trust the GOP, though I hope younger candidates get in and help to change that. As bad as Trump is, he may be the break point that helps the party modernize, which could only be good.


My fear is the opposite- that now that Trump has destroyed all rules of decorum and decency, that candidates (especially in the GOP) will try to "out Trump Trump ", and you'll have people running for office get up and saying "Fuck the n****rs and the s***s and the k***s and the f**s", or something just as horrible.
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Reply #116 posted 09/14/19 3:52pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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there is an odd incoherence to taking issue with both white flight and gentrification... and there is a bit of an implication that lacks tolerance.

[Edited 9/14/19 15:53pm]

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #117 posted 09/14/19 3:55pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:


My fear is the opposite- that now that Trump has destroyed all rules of decorum and decency, that candidates (especially in the GOP) will try to "out Trump Trump " (SNIP)

you've zero bases for this rant. it smacks of race hate and comes over as race based bigotry it is race baiting in its pure form.

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #118 posted 09/14/19 4:44pm

poppys

jjhunsecker said:

My fear is the opposite- that now that Trump has destroyed all rules of decorum and decency, that candidates (especially in the GOP) will try to "out Trump Trump ", and you'll have people running for office get up and saying "Fuck the n****rs and the s***s and the k***s and the f**s", or something just as horrible.


We are already seeing the new crop of Republican Trump like candidates in the LA Gov race. One says he's an outsider businessman who supports Trump and wants to ban sanctuary cities, roll back expanded Medicaid (we just got it with a Dem gov), and make people work for welfare etc etc.

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Reply #119 posted 09/15/19 11:14am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:



Yeah I can absolutely understand why black folks don't trust the GOP, though I hope younger candidates get in and help to change that. As bad as Trump is, he may be the break point that helps the party modernize, which could only be good.


My fear is the opposite- that now that Trump has destroyed all rules of decorum and decency, that candidates (especially in the GOP) will try to "out Trump Trump ", and you'll have people running for office get up and saying "Fuck the n****rs and the s***s and the k***s and the f**s", or something just as horrible.

Yep, because he normalized spewing racist comments, and not apologizing for it. Apparently ‘many’ of his supporters condone it. What’s funny is when many of his (asskissers aka delusional supporters, get mad at others for pointing out trump being a racist, yet he doesn’t hide it, and he race baits intentionally, to satisfy hie white nationalists/kkk/nazi loving portion of his base. One has to be that stupid to not recognize trump’s racial bigotry.
[Edited 9/15/19 11:24am]
“Uncomfortable conversations creates change” — Anonymous
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