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Thread started 09/08/19 11:47am

poppys

'White Flight' and Gentrification Discussion




Definition of white flight - Merriam Webster

: the departure of whites from places (such as urban neighborhoods or schools) increasingly or predominantly populated by minorities


This thread is a continuation of the discussion that was ongoing in the violent Chicago weekend thread - regarding if people still get upset when the demograpic of their city/neighborhood changes to include more people of color moving in.

Here are the last few posts to start off:


jjhunsecker said:


If they built housing for poor minorities in a White middle or upper class suburb, I think there's a very strong possibility that it would be vandalized or destroyed. The people there would do almost anything to preserve their property values , and their local schools.

So I certainly don't think hordes of Black people from ghetto projects would be welcome in with open arms in most mainly White suburbs



uPtoWnNY said:

The reality is, whites don't want blacks in their neighborhoods or schools. They'll tolerate a few, but if they feel the area's becoming "too black", away they go. I saw this shit over and over again when my family moved to Long Island. And it's no different today. Doesn't bother me at all. I learned a long time ago, laws may change, but people's hearts don't. The mistake I see some black folks make is thinking other groups will look at them differently because they have money, status and a house in the suburbs. Then they get a "N**** Wake-Up Call", and act shocked that this still goes on today.

[Edited 9/8/19 15:29pm]

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Reply #1 posted 09/08/19 12:20pm

poppys

Gentrification is a process of changing the character of a neighborhood through the influx of more affluent residents and businesses. This is a common and controversial topic in politics and in urban planning. Gentrification often increases the economic value of a neighborhood, but can force out low-income residents due to the increased cost of rent and higher cost of goods. Gentrification often shifts a neighborhood's racial/ethnic composition and average household income by developing new, more expensive housing, businesses and improved resources. wiki



After Katrina in 2005, when so much housing stock was decimated, people were moving "above the lake" (Pontchartrain) to the bedroom communities that were not as hard hit. Many were returnees with New Orleans and family ties who came back to help rebuild. People of color were not as welcomed, there were stories about it in the newspaper. One of the worst I recall escalated to crosses being burned in the yard of a mixed NY couple.

In the town of Chalmette, which was heavily flooded, they passed an ordinance that no one could move back there unless they could prove blood ties to someone who lived there before. This included renters and people trying to buy land and damaged housing. Their idea was to keep the demographics the same. It was shot down in the courts after much outrage, but the damage was done.

Fast forward to where I live now, which is being gentrified to the extinction of the neighborhood by allowing Bed & Breakfasts to operate out of what used to be single family homes and apartments for locals. Wealthy people/corporations with deep pockets come in and pour money into places that now rent by the day/week for what they used to get in a month or more. This raises property taxes for the whole neighborhood after assessment. People who have literally lived here for many generations have to sell because they can't pay their taxes. This happens to less well off blacks and whites of course, but being a majority black city, that group is harder hit.


[Edited 9/8/19 19:18pm]

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Reply #2 posted 09/08/19 12:32pm

guitarslinger4
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Most people are the most comfortable when they're around other people like them. Doesn't matter what race we're talking about, and it doesn't mean they dislike other races or that they're incapable of living alongside them. It's just how a lot of people are.

Also the term "black neighborhood" confers certain things. Usually run down, trash all over the place, busted up furniture in the street, shoes up on power lines. You don't see that stuff in white neighborhoods very often. It's not to say every black neighborhood is like that but enough of them are and when whites see the demographics changing, they start to think about what that means for the future of where they live.

Schools are another issue. A lot of minority majority schools perform poorly and if a parent has an opportunity to get their kid to a school where they'll learn without distractions, they will.

Again, this isn't to say all black folks are like this, but I've lived in a black neighborhood for the last 10 years and I see stuff i never saw when I lived elsewhere. With that said though, the house I'm in the process of moving to actually has a lot of black families living nearby, but there's nothing like where i've been living.
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Reply #3 posted 09/08/19 12:42pm

guitarslinger4
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poppys said:

. This raises property taxes for the whole neighborhood after assessment. People who have literally lived here for many generations have to sell because they can't pay their taxes. This happens to less well off blacks and whites of course, but being a majority black city, that group is harder hit.



There are actually a lot of rights property owners have to protect them from stuff like this, but cities and developers take advantage of the fact that a lot of people don't know about them. It might be worth looking into what the laws are locally and educating people in your area about them. The same thing is happening where I live too.
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Reply #4 posted 09/08/19 1:40pm

poppys

One thing I bet you've never seen is someone burn a cross in front of your place just because YOU moved in the neighborhood. Or spray paint a racial slur on the front of your house after you move in.

As far as fighting the corporate takeover of housing here in the aftermath of a major disaster, thanks for the tip, but we've already thought of that and community action is being taken.

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Reply #5 posted 09/08/19 2:11pm

PennyPurple

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poppys said:

One thing I bet you've never seen is someone burn a cross in front of your place just because YOU moved in the neighborhood. Or spray paint a racial slur on the front of your house after you move in.

As far as fighting the corporate takeover of housing here in the aftermath of a major disaster, thanks for the tip, but we've already thought of that and community action is being taken.

Poppy's I love you but this works both ways. How do you think whites are treated when they move into a black neighborhood? Do you think they are treated any better? Because they aren't.


No matter where we live, this is not ok. It's just not.

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Reply #6 posted 09/08/19 2:30pm

poppys

PennyPurple said:

poppys said:

One thing I bet you've never seen is someone burn a cross in front of your place just because YOU moved in the neighborhood. Or spray paint a racial slur on the front of your house after you move in.

As far as fighting the corporate takeover of housing here in the aftermath of a major disaster, thanks for the tip, but we've already thought of that and community action is being taken.


Poppy's I love you but this works both ways. How do you think whites are treated when they move into a black neighborhood? Do you think they are treated any better? Because they aren't.


No matter where we live, this is not ok. It's just not.


I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm not saying racism against whites is ok, but there are differences. I live in a majority black neighborhood and have before too. I'm poorer than many of my neighbors - and I rent. I'm not always treated with open arms, but I've never worried about a cross (or anything else) being burned in front of my house because I moved somewhere. Have you?


[Edited 9/9/19 7:38am]

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Reply #7 posted 09/08/19 2:35pm

guitarslinger4
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poppys said:

One thing I bet you've never seen is someone burn a cross in front of your place just because YOU moved in the neighborhood. Or spray paint a racial slur on the front of your house after you move in.

As far as fighting the corporate takeover of housing here in the aftermath of a major disaster, thanks for the tip, but we've already thought of that and community action is being taken.



When is the last time a cross got burned in someone's front yard because they moved somewhere? If we're going to talk about modern day, then using examples from the 50s probably isn't the best way to go. Whites are so sensitive about being called racist these days I imagine there's less of a possibility of stuff like that happening.

Good luck with the community action though.

[Edited 9/8/19 14:36pm]
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Reply #8 posted 09/08/19 2:40pm

poppys

^^ Read reply #1.

Of course there is hatred on both sides. And there are trashy white neighborhoods too. But let's not pretend it's all the same, it isn't.

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Reply #9 posted 09/08/19 2:43pm

guitarslinger4
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poppys said:

^^ Read reply #1.

Of course there is hatred on both sides. And there are trashy white neighborhoods too. But let's not pretend it's all the same, it isn't.



Do you have a link to the story I could check out? I'd be interested in reading it.

Yes there are trashy white neighborhoods too, no one's disputing that.
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Reply #10 posted 09/08/19 2:49pm

poppys

Here's a combined case that went to the USSC.

On May 2, 1998 Richard Elliot and Jonathan O'Mara attempted to light a cross on the property of Elliot's neighbor (who was black) in
Virginia Beach, Virginia. On August 22, 1998 Barry Black held a Ku Klux Klan rally on private property and with the consent of the owner in Carroll County, Virginia. A neighbor and the county sheriff witnessed the event and heard attendees make many negative comments concerning blacks. During the rally a cross was lit. Black was arrested and charged with violating a Virginia statute outlawing cross burnings. All defendants were found guilty. Black's and Elliot/O'Mara's cases were combined upon appeal and reached the U.S. Supreme Court during the Fall 2002 session. [1] wiki

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Reply #11 posted 09/08/19 3:11pm

EmmaMcG

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Is that an American thing? I've never heard of "white flight" before.

I can't speak for anyone else but if every other white person where I live moved away and their houses were taken over by black people, I can honestly say that it would have absolutely zero impact on me whatsoever. Why would anyone care what colour their neighbours are?
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Reply #12 posted 09/08/19 3:28pm

poppys

EmmaMcG said:

Is that an American thing? I've never heard of "white flight" before. I can't speak for anyone else but if every other white person where I live moved away and their houses were taken over by black people, I can honestly say that it would have absolutely zero impact on me whatsoever. Why would anyone care what colour their neighbours are?


Hi Emma - Yes, ugh.

Think I'll change the title because the thread is about gentrification too. Which happens when real estate speculators move into a neighborhood that is predominately people of color and drive up the cost of housing so of course people have to move out. It happens in cities like Manhattan (island) and here in New Orleans (inside the levee system) because of limited land space available.

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Reply #13 posted 09/08/19 4:53pm

onlyforaminute

Y'all need a mass migration of various "others" neither white nor black, that'll shake up everything. Then it'll shift strongly to status and economics being the great divider. Still people want to be primarily around similar people culturally, being put on the sidelines while watching other cultures clash seems to magnify similarities.
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Reply #14 posted 09/08/19 4:56pm

poppys

onlyforaminute said:

Y'all need a mass migration of various "others" neither white nor black, that'll shake up everything. Then it'll shift strongly to status and economics being the great divider. Still people want to be primarily around similar people culturally, being put on the sidelines while watching other cultures clash seems to magnify similarities.


Who is the y'all you're referring to?

edit - If you're referring to New Orleans, 80% of our housing stock was lost/damaged in 1 day. It caused the biggest diaspora of citizens ever fleeing an American city. We're still down 115,000 people from before. A large number who live here now are "others" - new residents that moved here, mostly younger people. Spike Lee's When the Levees Broke is a great doc on our shake up.


Anyway this thread is not just about my city. I posted my experiences to get started.


[Edited 9/9/19 10:15am]

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Reply #15 posted 09/08/19 5:05pm

guitarslinger4
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onlyforaminute said:

Y'all need a mass migration of various "others" neither white nor black, that'll shake up everything. Then it'll shift strongly to status and economics being the great divider. Still people want to be primarily around similar people culturally, being put on the sidelines while watching other cultures clash seems to magnify similarities.


Latinos are actually the fastest growing demographic in the US right now and I hear Asians are growing quite a bit too.
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Reply #16 posted 09/08/19 5:32pm

onlyforaminute

guitarslinger44 said:

onlyforaminute said:

Y'all need a mass migration of various "others" neither white nor black, that'll shake up everything. Then it'll shift strongly to status and economics being the great divider. Still people want to be primarily around similar people culturally, being put on the sidelines while watching other cultures clash seems to magnify similarities.


Latinos are actually the fastest growing demographic in the US right now and I hear Asians are growing quite a bit too.



I live where yes there is a very high latino population all over but there are huge numbers of other people who don't categorize themselves like we do from all over the world that tend to lock horns with each other from time to time. It creates unique situations, that put more layers on things than just black vs white. There technically are no "black" neighborhoods here while there are quite a few black people here, there are still places considered "white" neighborhoods but even that is shifting rapidly. Its more status neighborhoods than anything else.
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Reply #17 posted 09/08/19 6:53pm

OldFriends4Sal
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A lot of 'white flight' happened in the 1970's when integration was still taking place.

So that kind of transition was expected to some degree.
This also happened when Italians moved into neighborhoods and one other Euro ethnic group.

.

Also when what white folk call 'white trash' moves into midlde class neighborhoods.

.

But when it comes to black folk especially looking back in the 70s, let's remember there was a lot of protesting, rioting and looting that took place. A lot of the black neighborhoods that exist, that are 'lower class' still look like they did after the rioting of the 70s. This is one reason why I was so against BLM, using this kind of tactic. That first neighborhood after Michael Brown that all the rioting and looting took place of a black neighborhood, and they left it just like that. For the people that lived there to have to clean up and recover from. Black owned business trashed. You all probably remember this womans face after seeing 'rioters' destroy her personally owned Furguson bakery. But I'm glad her story did not end here, because Americans of every ethnicity began sending her money and grants to help her rebuild her bakery.

.
fa243a0b-d4bb-4e56-83dd-aa5e77f38d68-1588x2040.jpeg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=3e5bfb3acdecb4307c8aec9104060858
.
So some residual white flight is a left over of what happened. I know neighborhoods like this all over.
I've seen the before pictures, the during the riot pictures, the after pictures 20-30yrs later and it's not improved.
And I've seen middle class black neighborhoods, try to resist Section 8, DSS tenants moving in and homes being rented out because too often the people that move in are not upscale residents.

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Reply #18 posted 09/08/19 7:09pm

poppys

White flight is a term that originated in the United States, starting in the 1950s and 1960s, and applied to the large-scale migration of people of various European ancestries from racially mixed urban regions to more racially homogeneous suburban or exurban regions.

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Reply #19 posted 09/08/19 8:37pm

jjhunsecker

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poppys said:



EmmaMcG said:


Is that an American thing? I've never heard of "white flight" before. I can't speak for anyone else but if every other white person where I live moved away and their houses were taken over by black people, I can honestly say that it would have absolutely zero impact on me whatsoever. Why would anyone care what colour their neighbours are?



Hi Emma - Yes, ugh.

Think I'll change the title because the thread is about gentrification too. Which happens when real estate speculators move into a neighborhood that is predominately people of color and drive up the cost of housing so of course people have to move out. It happens in cities like Manhattan (island) and here in New Orleans (inside the levee system) because of limited land space available.



Gentrification has happened all over New York City's boroughs, with Whites taking over neighborhoods like Williamsburg and Bushwick and Crown Heights in Brooklyn, Long Island City in Queens. Hell, even Harlem and Bed-Stuy are now full of White people.
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Reply #20 posted 09/08/19 8:45pm

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:



Most people are the most comfortable when they're around other people like them. Doesn't matter what race we're talking about, and it doesn't mean they dislike other races or that they're incapable of living alongside them. It's just how a lot of people are.

Also the term "black neighborhood" confers certain things. Usually run down, trash all over the place, busted up furniture in the street, shoes up on power lines. You don't see that stuff in white neighborhoods very often. It's not to say every black neighborhood is like that but enough of them are and when whites see the demographics changing, they start to think about what that means for the future of where they live.

Schools are another issue. A lot of minority majority schools perform poorly and if a parent has an opportunity to get their kid to a school where they'll learn without distractions, they will.

Again, this isn't to say all black folks are like this, but I've lived in a black neighborhood for the last 10 years and I see stuff i never saw when I lived elsewhere. With that said though, the house I'm in the process of moving to actually has a lot of black families living nearby, but there's nothing like where i've been living.


Is the type of behavior and environment you witness because the people there are Black, or because they're poor? Because I've been in many majority Black middle and upper class neighborhoods, and you see nothing like you described.
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Reply #21 posted 09/09/19 6:28am

2elijah

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guitarslinger44 said:



Most people are the most comfortable when they're around other people like them. Doesn't matter what race we're talking about, and it doesn't mean they dislike other races or that they're incapable of living alongside them. It's just how a lot of people are.

Also the term "black neighborhood" confers certain things. Usually run down, trash all over the place, busted up furniture in the street, shoes up on power lines. You don't see that stuff in white neighborhoods very often. It's not to say every black neighborhood is like that but enough of them are and when whites see the demographics changing, they start to think about what that means for the future of where they live.

Schools are another issue. A lot of minority majority schools perform poorly and if a parent has an opportunity to get their kid to a school where they'll learn without distractions, they will.

Again, this isn't to say all black folks are like this, but I've lived in a black neighborhood for the last 10 years and I see stuff i never saw when I lived elsewhere. With that said though, the house I'm in the process of moving to actually has a lot of black families living nearby, but there's nothing like where i've been living.




In regards to your 2nd paragraph—Not really.

I experienced what UptownNY did. We’re both from NYC. My parents bought a home, and moved our family to a community that was 70% White. We had 7 White families on my Block, and we lived less than 2 miles from a predominantly Jewish community. We experienced news of homes being pipe-bombed everytime, a Black family purchased a home 2 towns over. In that same town, any Black person, especially males, if walking through there, would be chased by White boys with bats. Even just walking through to get home from school. So many isolated incidents over the years. I’ve seen the ‘White flight’ happen for years, and that’s why NYC, is now more predominantly non-White today. Many White families moved to Long Island, as more middle to upper-class Black families moved in.

All the neighbors knew one another, and were cordial, despite growing up around this country ‘s most turbulent, racist times. One by one all 7 White families moved out in less than 3 years. Our community stayed middle-class, clean. and majority Black. Everyone owned their homes, quiet community where all the neighbors looked out for the kids. You could leave your door unlocked and not worry about anyone coming in.Many Black professionals lived in those towns, from Physicians, Lawyers, Judges, Educators, etc., Of course that changed during the mid to late 80s. But you would never know those middle-upper class Blacks existed because the media only showed images to American households, lower-income Black communities, so that’s the image many White America had of all Blacks.

Sure many like living among what’s familiar to them, but many neighborhoods in New York City today, are racially diverse, but it doesn’t mean they all invite each over for coffee or dinner... they just ‘tolerate’ one another. Still a lot of stereotyped, racist beliefs among many, even of one’s neighbor next door.
[Edited 9/9/19 6:54am]
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Reply #22 posted 09/09/19 6:44am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:



Most people are the most comfortable when they're around other people like them. Doesn't matter what race we're talking about, and it doesn't mean they dislike other races or that they're incapable of living alongside them. It's just how a lot of people are.

Also the term "black neighborhood" confers certain things. Usually run down, trash all over the place, busted up furniture in the street, shoes up on power lines. You don't see that stuff in white neighborhoods very often. It's not to say every black neighborhood is like that but enough of them are and when whites see the demographics changing, they start to think about what that means for the future of where they live.

Schools are another issue. A lot of minority majority schools perform poorly and if a parent has an opportunity to get their kid to a school where they'll learn without distractions, they will.

Again, this isn't to say all black folks are like this, but I've lived in a black neighborhood for the last 10 years and I see stuff i never saw when I lived elsewhere. With that said though, the house I'm in the process of moving to actually has a lot of black families living nearby, but there's nothing like where i've been living.


Is the type of behavior and environment you witness because the people there are Black, or because they're poor? Because I've been in many majority Black middle and upper class neighborhoods, and you see nothing like you described.

Exactly. I can name a number of middle to upper class communities in Florida, where Blacks live, as well as other places. It reminds me of how I grew up and how middle to upper class, Black communities were kept out of exposure in the media. All the media feeds to America, is a false view of all of Black America, and it always seem to be depiction of only impoverished Black communities.

Yet in America, they have so many poor, White communities that exist, and the crimes that exists within it. Why does the media keep those communities out of the public’s eyes? Had I not left NYC, and worked for a state criminal justice agency, in another state some years ago, I would have never been exposed to the white poverty that so secretly exists in America. Not to mention all the crime that existed in many of those communities, including trailer park areas. Sometimes one has to leave their cocoon to see what exists in the rest of America. We certainly cannot depend on the media to give us a real, and honest education, on the realities of the various, economic situations of many racial communities in America.

Poverty, crime exists in ‘all racial communities’ in this country. We just have to be smart enough, not to fall for the stereotyped, ignorant bs, fed to us, and see it for ourselves.
[Edited 9/9/19 6:49am]
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Reply #23 posted 09/09/19 6:52am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

poppys said:



EmmaMcG said:


Is that an American thing? I've never heard of "white flight" before. I can't speak for anyone else but if every other white person where I live moved away and their houses were taken over by black people, I can honestly say that it would have absolutely zero impact on me whatsoever. Why would anyone care what colour their neighbours are?



Hi Emma - Yes, ugh.

Think I'll change the title because the thread is about gentrification too. Which happens when real estate speculators move into a neighborhood that is predominately people of color and drive up the cost of housing so of course people have to move out. It happens in cities like Manhattan (island) and here in New Orleans (inside the levee system) because of limited land space available.



Gentrification has happened all over New York City's boroughs, with Whites taking over neighborhoods like Williamsburg and Bushwick and Crown Heights in Brooklyn, Long Island City in Queens. Hell, even Harlem and Bed-Stuy are now full of White people.

Agree, and what’s ironic, is that many of their grandparents were the ones who took the ‘White Flight’ out of NYC over 40 years ago.
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Reply #24 posted 09/09/19 7:01am

2elijah

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poppys said:



PennyPurple said:




poppys said:


One thing I bet you've never seen is someone burn a cross in front of your place just because YOU moved in the neighborhood. Or spray paint a racial slur on the front of your house after you move in.

As far as fighting the corporate takeover of housing here in the aftermath of a major disaster, thanks for the tip, but we've already thought of that and community action is being taken.




Poppy's I love you but this works both ways. How do you think whites are treated when they move into a black neighborhood? Do you think they are treated any better? Because they aren't.



No matter where we live, this is not ok. It's just not.




I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm not saying racism against whites is ok, but there are differences. I live in a majority black neighborhood and have before too. I'm poorer than many of my neighbors - and I rent. I'm not always treated with open arms, but I've never worried about a cross (or anything else) being burned in front of my house because I moved somewhere. Have you?

[Edited 9/9/19 6:53am]


I live in a racially-diverse community. No one bothers anybody here. We all pretty much stay to ourselves, but are cordial when we see one another. Some are friendly, some are not. Most of the people on the block are not American-born, but immigrants who moved here sometime ago. Some American-born here other than myself. Some Whites, Blacks, Hispanic, Asian.

Unfortunately, growing up, I’ve lived through the cross-burning days, houses pipe-bmbed, trashed, that happened 2 towns over, from where I grew up. Those were scary times.
[Edited 9/9/19 7:07am]
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Reply #25 posted 09/09/19 7:04am

poppys

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:

Gentrification has happened all over New York City's boroughs, with Whites taking over neighborhoods like Williamsburg and Bushwick and Crown Heights in Brooklyn, Long Island City in Queens. Hell, even Harlem and Bed-Stuy are now full of White people.


Agree, and what’s ironic, is that many of their grandparents were the ones who took the ‘White Flight’ out of NYC over 40 years ago.


So true. Thanks for posting.

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Reply #26 posted 09/09/19 8:03am

2freaky4church
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We red lined black neighborhoods, separated them from white ones. Blacks cannot get loans like whites, even if they have bad credit. Blacks with good credit still don't get small business loans. Their neighborhoods lack businessess, beyong chicken shacks and liquor stores, which tend to be owned by Asians, Arabs or Indians. Whites ran, not walked away from neighborhoods when blacks came up north from the South, because of jobs. Factories left town because of right wing trade policy. Wages went down big but housing went way up-over 200 percent. Black neighborhoods get taken over by cities, they kick them out, gentrify them and the liberal hipsters move in. Oddly they are woke but hate the poor and people of color but pretend to love them.

When they say they want good schools, they mean schools without those awful black kids. Their big issue is tax rates, which they think decline when the blacks move in. Paul Butler's idea is to end the hood. Give vouchers to poor blacks to move into the white neighborhoods.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #27 posted 09/09/19 8:51am

deebee

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2elijah said:

guitarslinger44 said:
Most people are the most comfortable when they're around other people like them. Doesn't matter what race we're talking about, and it doesn't mean they dislike other races or that they're incapable of living alongside them. It's just how a lot of people are. Also the term "black neighborhood" confers certain things. Usually run down, trash all over the place, busted up furniture in the street, shoes up on power lines. You don't see that stuff in white neighborhoods very often. It's not to say every black neighborhood is like that but enough of them are and when whites see the demographics changing, they start to think about what that means for the future of where they live. Schools are another issue. A lot of minority majority schools perform poorly and if a parent has an opportunity to get their kid to a school where they'll learn without distractions, they will. Again, this isn't to say all black folks are like this, but I've lived in a black neighborhood for the last 10 years and I see stuff i never saw when I lived elsewhere. With that said though, the house I'm in the process of moving to actually has a lot of black families living nearby, but there's nothing like where i've been living.
In regards to your 2nd paragraph—Not really.

I experienced what UptownNY did. We’re both from NYC. My parents bought a home, and moved our family to a community that was 70% White. We had 7 White families on my Block, and we lived less than 2 miles from a predominantly Jewish community. We experienced news of homes being pipe-bombed everytime, a Black family purchased a home 2 towns over. In that same town, any Black person, especially males, if walking through there, would be chased by White boys with bats. Even just walking through to get home from school. So many isolated incidents over the years. I’ve seen the ‘White flight’ happen for years, and that’s why NYC, is now more predominantly non-White today. Many White families moved to Long Island, as more middle to upper-class Black families moved in.

All the neighbors knew one another, and were cordial, despite growing up around this country ‘s most turbulent, racist times. One by one all 7 White families moved out in less than 3 years. Our community stayed middle-class, clean. and majority Black. Everyone owned their homes, quiet community where all the neighbors looked out for the kids. You could leave your door unlocked and not worry about anyone coming in.Many Black professionals lived in those towns, from Physicians, Lawyers, Judges, Educators, etc., Of course that changed during the mid to late 80s. But you would never know those middle-upper class Blacks existed because the media only showed images to American households, lower-income Black communities, so that’s the image many White America had of all Blacks.

Sure many like living among what’s familiar to them, but many neighborhoods in New York City today, are racially diverse, but it doesn’t mean they all invite each over for coffee or dinner... they just ‘tolerate’ one another. Still a lot of stereotyped, racist beliefs among many, even of one’s neighbor next door.

Wow - sorry to hear that. What a mad, mad world it is.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #28 posted 09/09/19 9:07am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:
Is the type of behavior and environment you witness because the people there are Black, or because they're poor? Because I've been in many majority Black middle and upper class neighborhoods, and you see nothing like you described.
Exactly. I can name a number of middle to upper class communities in Florida, where Blacks live, as well as other places. It reminds me of how I grew up and how middle to upper class, Black communities were kept out of exposure in the media. All the media feeds to America, is a false view of all of Black America, and it always seem to be depiction of only impoverished Black communities. Yet in America, they have so many poor, White communities that exist, and the crimes that exists within it. Why does the media keep those communities out of the public’s eyes? Had I not left NYC, and worked for a state criminal justice agency, in another state some years ago, I would have never been exposed to the white poverty that so secretly exists in America. Not to mention all the crime that existed in many of those communities, including trailer park areas. Sometimes one has to leave their cocoon to see what exists in the rest of America. We certainly cannot depend on the media to give us a real, and honest education, on the realities of the various, economic situations of many racial communities in America. Poverty, crime exists in ‘all racial communities’ in this country. We just have to be smart enough, not to fall for the stereotyped, ignorant bs, fed to us, and see it for ourselves. [Edited 9/9/19 6:49am]

Very true. When the media does stories on poverty and social dysfunction (which exists in all groups), they tend to focus on Blacks and Latinos, and downplay Whites and Asians

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Reply #29 posted 09/09/19 9:11am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

guitarslinger44 said:
Most people are the most comfortable when they're around other people like them. Doesn't matter what race we're talking about, and it doesn't mean they dislike other races or that they're incapable of living alongside them. It's just how a lot of people are. Also the term "black neighborhood" confers certain things. Usually run down, trash all over the place, busted up furniture in the street, shoes up on power lines. You don't see that stuff in white neighborhoods very often. It's not to say every black neighborhood is like that but enough of them are and when whites see the demographics changing, they start to think about what that means for the future of where they live. Schools are another issue. A lot of minority majority schools perform poorly and if a parent has an opportunity to get their kid to a school where they'll learn without distractions, they will. Again, this isn't to say all black folks are like this, but I've lived in a black neighborhood for the last 10 years and I see stuff i never saw when I lived elsewhere. With that said though, the house I'm in the process of moving to actually has a lot of black families living nearby, but there's nothing like where i've been living.
In regards to your 2nd paragraph—Not really. I experienced what UptownNY did. We’re both from NYC. My parents bought a home, and moved our family to a community that was 70% White. We had 7 White families on my Block, and we lived less than 2 miles from a predominantly Jewish community. We experienced news of homes being pipe-bombed everytime, a Black family purchased a home 2 towns over. In that same town, any Black person, especially males, if walking through there, would be chased by White boys with bats. Even just walking through to get home from school. So many isolated incidents over the years. I’ve seen the ‘White flight’ happen for years, and that’s why NYC, is now more predominantly non-White today. Many White families moved to Long Island, as more middle to upper-class Black families moved in. All the neighbors knew one another, and were cordial, despite growing up around this country ‘s most turbulent, racist times. One by one all 7 White families moved out in less than 3 years. Our community stayed middle-class, clean. and majority Black. Everyone owned their homes, quiet community where all the neighbors looked out for the kids. You could leave your door unlocked and not worry about anyone coming in.Many Black professionals lived in those towns, from Physicians, Lawyers, Judges, Educators, etc., Of course that changed during the mid to late 80s. But you would never know those middle-upper class Blacks existed because the media only showed images to American households, lower-income Black communities, so that’s the image many White America had of all Blacks. Sure many like living among what’s familiar to them, but many neighborhoods in New York City today, are racially diverse, but it doesn’t mean they all invite each over for coffee or dinner... they just ‘tolerate’ one another. Still a lot of stereotyped, racist beliefs among many, even of one’s neighbor next door. [Edited 9/9/19 6:54am]

I remember those days well. I had several incidents like these happen to me, and recall how minority homeowners and renters were often harrassed when they moved into the "wrong" neighborhoods.

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