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Thread started 08/07/19 6:23am

deebee

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No clapping, no background chatter, and no 'aggressive scents'! It's fun, fun, fun at the DSA convention!

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DSA.sized-770x415xb.png

Clips from the DSA's National Convention have been making the rounds on social media and catching flack for their somewhat absurd and rather cultish character. I have to say, I'm broadly in agreement with those doing the mocking. I support the socialist Left, but I've never understood these performances of 'wokeness', and always hated them. (It's not so common in the UK, but you do encounter it sometimes, and, of course, it's everywhere on social media.)

Some of it seems well intentioned, if a bit overzealous. But I always have the sense that it's about performing rituals that differentiate 'woke' insiders from sinful normies, and in which the ante is always being upped by the wokest of the woke. It saddens me that this sort of thing is what younger people might come to associate with 'the Left' - even though, to my mind, it's a weird quirk of group psychology that has nothing to do with socialism or any other progressive values.

Here are the clips:

No clapping and other points of etiquette: https://www.youtube.com/w...zd73ryg5bE

Points of privilege from the perpetually triggered: https://www.youtube.com/w...yJteQTPBlU

I dunno. Maybe I'm being too harsh. What do you folks think?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #1 posted 08/07/19 12:50pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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is this the baby convention where someone got all triggered over "chatter" and then some biger baby got supper triggered over the use of the word "guys."


and that dumb pig saying she wants to end capitalism and institute socialism... dummy has no idea how much her life would suck.. unless she is so delusional that she things she will be one of the 0.001% of the haves...

EDIT: oh yes... 2nd video... shows the cancer of the far left is growing and festering in the minds of many... they've no idea they are advocating againt everything they enjoy and can only LOSE bigly.

[Edited 8/7/19 12:52pm]

Antifa: are Fascist. People are fooled by their name! They carry out acts of violence to instill fear in order to push a political agenda or combat one. Do you support them?
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Reply #2 posted 08/07/19 3:30pm

2freaky4church
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Cancer of the far left? What are you smoking?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #3 posted 08/07/19 3:33pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Cancer of the far left? What are you smoking?

truth weed

Antifa: are Fascist. People are fooled by their name! They carry out acts of violence to instill fear in order to push a political agenda or combat one. Do you support them?
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Reply #4 posted 08/07/19 3:39pm

2freaky4church
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Note the video is only a few people. Shame on Deebee for showing the edited vid.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #5 posted 08/07/19 3:46pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Note the video is only a few people. Shame on Deebee for showing the edited vid.

i noticed the guy in the photo is wearing a military style blouse...that is indicative of how socialist governments often rule--with military style force and an Iron fist.


it is scary to see people out demanding some rights or protesting or whatever wearing a Che (Mass murderer despot) shirt... dummies do not even know.

Antifa: are Fascist. People are fooled by their name! They carry out acts of violence to instill fear in order to push a political agenda or combat one. Do you support them?
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Reply #6 posted 08/07/19 3:48pm

2freaky4church
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Che is a great man.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #7 posted 08/07/19 3:51pm

2freaky4church
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Most of it is pretty normal left chatter. I guess solidarity is dangerous eh Deebee?

https://www.youtube.com/w...SZEPkYQzaY

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #8 posted 08/07/19 3:57pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Che is a great man.

haha killing political opponents putting gays in prison torture and rape is good to you?

Antifa: are Fascist. People are fooled by their name! They carry out acts of violence to instill fear in order to push a political agenda or combat one. Do you support them?
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Reply #9 posted 08/08/19 1:26am

deebee

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2freaky4church1 said:

Note the video is only a few people. Shame on Deebee for showing the edited vid.


Don't shame me, dear. You know I loves ya.

Seriously, there's no claim that it shows the whole convention, and what's shown is not distorted by the editing. I have no doubt that much of the convention was fine, with none of this stuff - and I support DSA overall. But this is an undeniable aspect of the contemporary Left, which I would say is unnecessary and alienating, so I do think there's a case for accepting that and trying to move away from this approach.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #10 posted 08/08/19 1:28am

deebee

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



2freaky4church1 said:


Note the video is only a few people. Shame on Deebee for showing the edited vid.






i noticed the guy in the photo is wearing a military style blouse...that is indicative of how socialist governments often rule--with military style force and an Iron fist. >


Iron jazz hands.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #11 posted 08/08/19 1:32am

deebee

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2freaky4church1 said:

Most of it is pretty normal left chatter. I guess solidarity is dangerous eh Deebee?



https://www.youtube.com/w...SZEPkYQzaY


I've got no quarrel with the rest of it. It's good to see the movement growing. All I'm saying is drop the weird, ritualistic shit.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #12 posted 08/08/19 7:12am

deebee

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Seems only fair to add Nathan J. Robinson 's positive account of the convention in Current Affairs to emphasise that the silliness wasn't the whole story. I maintain that we can be both supportive and critical of aspects with which we take issue, at the same time.

https://www.currentaffair...f-comrades
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #13 posted 08/08/19 8:23am

2freaky4church
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see how easy that was. Every side has kooks. As Noam Chomsky says activists need intellectual guidance.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #14 posted 08/08/19 7:52pm

guitarslinger4
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I love watching videos of these people. Puts my mind at ease knowing that people who are all "We must defeat capitalism and win communism (LOL)" are triggered by chatter and aggressive scents. lol lol lol

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Reply #15 posted 08/09/19 2:09am

deebee

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guitarslinger44 said:

I love watching videos of these people. Puts my mind at ease knowing that people who are all "We must defeat capitalism and win communism (LOL)" are triggered by chatter and aggressive scents. lol lol lol


It is going to make storming the barricades rather tricky if we have to keep the noise down. Hopefully, the cops won't honk their horns either. :omfg:

But, yes, this sort of thing is a gift to the right, and it's no surprise that Fox and the like are having a field day with it. Worse still, those on the Left who are attempting to use this moment to push for dropping all the jazz hands and triggering BS are being rebuked online for supposedly being in league with the right. As I say, I support the aims of the socialist Left, but I think all of this silliness is unnecessary and annoying.
"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #16 posted 08/09/19 6:33am

jaawwnn

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Not going to win a lot of friends is it? Easy to laugh at, and there's a certain amount of laughing that's deserved as well. From the outside looking in at best it just looks like a lot of unnecessary scolding and wasting of time.

People in wheelchairs generally don't go around shouting at staircases but they have every right to get pissed off if a venue has no wheelchair accessible section - the venue here could have had a quiet area for those who can't handle noise, I think that's a better solution then forcing everyone else to wave their hands like a lunatic. Maybe one day there will be no staircases but it's not going to happen overnight.


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Reply #17 posted 08/09/19 7:45am

2freaky4church
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Best to stick with the legit left like Counterpunch, Alternet, Common Dreams, Zmag, Current Affairs, Jacobin, The Nation, Fair.org...

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #18 posted 08/09/19 8:28am

guitarslinger4
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deebee said:

guitarslinger44 said:

I love watching videos of these people. Puts my mind at ease knowing that people who are all "We must defeat capitalism and win communism (LOL)" are triggered by chatter and aggressive scents. lol lol lol


It is going to make storming the barricades rather tricky if we have to keep the noise down. Hopefully, the cops won't honk their horns either. omfg

But, yes, this sort of thing is a gift to the right, and it's no surprise that Fox and the like are having a field day with it. Worse still, those on the Left who are attempting to use this moment to push for dropping all the jazz hands and triggering BS are being rebuked online for supposedly being in league with the right. As I say, I support the aims of the socialist Left, but I think all of this silliness is unnecessary and annoying.


lol lol lol

We have several socialism-lite policies in place and have for decades, but that these people think that the country will capitulate to a system that has killed hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century alone just shows how ignorant of history they are.
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Reply #19 posted 08/09/19 9:05am

jaawwnn

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guitarslinger44 said:

deebee said:
It is going to make storming the barricades rather tricky if we have to keep the noise down. Hopefully, the cops won't honk their horns either. omfg But, yes, this sort of thing is a gift to the right, and it's no surprise that Fox and the like are having a field day with it. Worse still, those on the Left who are attempting to use this moment to push for dropping all the jazz hands and triggering BS are being rebuked online for supposedly being in league with the right. As I say, I support the aims of the socialist Left, but I think all of this silliness is unnecessary and annoying.
lol lol lol We have several socialism-lite policies in place and have for decades, but that these people think that the country will capitulate to a system that has killed hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century alone just shows how ignorant of history they are.

You already live in the USA dude.

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Reply #20 posted 08/13/19 1:48am

deebee

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jaawwnn said:

Not going to win a lot of friends is it? Easy to laugh at, and there's a certain amount of laughing that's deserved as well. From the outside looking in at best it just looks like a lot of unnecessary scolding and wasting of time.

People in wheelchairs generally don't go around shouting at staircases but they have every right to get pissed off if a venue has no wheelchair accessible section - the venue here could have had a quiet area for those who can't handle noise, I think that's a better solution then forcing everyone else to wave their hands like a lunatic. Maybe one day there will be no staircases but it's not going to happen overnight.


Agreed. Some of the things seem fair enough, like asking people to use the stairs if they're able, rather than clog up the lifts. It's just that then there's an unending expansion of ethical injunctions into areas there's no 'organic' demand for. I've never come across anyone who was 'triggered' by applause at a public event, but, as you say, if any poor souls in the 0.001% of the population affected by such an affliction are in attendance, I'd fully support special dispensation being made for them, e.g. a quiet room with a video link and a live transcript, etc.

But it always seems to me that it's not so much that several individuals with this rare condition have presented themselves, and organisers have come up with a way to adapt. Rather, it seems that an imagined other is continually being created, who's ever more vulnerable and has such pressing needs that everyone must refrain from common social norms and adopt a peculiarly idiosyncratic mode of interaction, with finger pointing at those unrighteous normies that haven't kept up. ("Oh, you don't see the need for jazz hands? I guess you hate people with disabilities, you callous bastard!", etc.) The ritual distinguishes insider from outsider, righteous from unrighteous - and I can't help but think that that's at least part of its point.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #21 posted 08/13/19 2:03am

deebee

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2freaky4church1 said:

see how easy that was. Every side has kooks. As Noam Chomsky says activists need intellectual guidance.

I agree - though I don't think this is a few kooks. It seems to be a tendency on the Left, and a lot of emotive energy goes into defending it. And many don't seem at all receptive to 'guidance' or even discussion. Angela Nagle is being variously attacked as a Nazi or "trash" for going on (the admittedly odious) Tucker Carlson's show and criticising the excesses of behaviour. Who'd dare to raise an objection in future, knowing that's the penalty?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #22 posted 08/13/19 2:51am

maplenpg

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deebee said:

jaawwnn said:

Not going to win a lot of friends is it? Easy to laugh at, and there's a certain amount of laughing that's deserved as well. From the outside looking in at best it just looks like a lot of unnecessary scolding and wasting of time.

People in wheelchairs generally don't go around shouting at staircases but they have every right to get pissed off if a venue has no wheelchair accessible section - the venue here could have had a quiet area for those who can't handle noise, I think that's a better solution then forcing everyone else to wave their hands like a lunatic. Maybe one day there will be no staircases but it's not going to happen overnight.


Agreed. Some of the things seem fair enough, like asking people to use the stairs if they're able, rather than clog up the lifts. It's just that then there's an unending expansion of ethical injunctions into areas there's no 'organic' demand for. I've never come across anyone who was 'triggered' by applause at a public event, but, as you say, if any poor souls in the 0.001% of the population affected by such an affliction are in attendance, I'd fully support special dispensation being made for them, e.g. a quiet room with a video link and a live transcript, etc.

But it always seems to me that it's not so much that several individuals with this rare condition have presented themselves, and organisers have come up with a way to adapt. Rather, it seems that an imagined other is continually being created, who's ever more vulnerable and has such pressing needs that everyone must refrain from common social norms and adopt a peculiarly idiosyncratic mode of interaction, with finger pointing at those unrighteous normies that haven't kept up. ("Oh, you don't see the need for jazz hands? I guess you hate people with disabilities, you callous bastard!", etc.) The ritual distinguishes insider from outsider, righteous from unrighteous - and I can't help but think that that's at least part of its point.

There are a number of people 'triggered' by applause, or indeed loud sound, noises etc... at public events, especially those on the autistic spectrum. Cinema and theatre are leading the way in making provision for them (link). However, even at these performances I've never heard of jazz hands. I also have seen dementia friendly performances at the theatre. But like you say, there is simply no need to make 'every' performance autism friendly, as it does somewhat take away from those who like the music loud and the pyrotechnics etc...

Like you say, the idea that everyone should refrain from what we consider common social norms in order to appear 'woke,' or to appear like you have even an ounce of empathy in you, seems extreme and alienating. Surely if we use theatres and cinema as a starting point there are endless possibilities for events to cater for the minority, without upsetting the majority. Yep. this is a case when 'lefties' need to recognise that even fellow lefties have limits.

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #23 posted 08/13/19 6:51am

deebee

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maplenpg said:

deebee said:

Agreed. Some of the things seem fair enough, like asking people to use the stairs if they're able, rather than clog up the lifts. It's just that then there's an unending expansion of ethical injunctions into areas there's no 'organic' demand for. I've never come across anyone who was 'triggered' by applause at a public event, but, as you say, if any poor souls in the 0.001% of the population affected by such an affliction are in attendance, I'd fully support special dispensation being made for them, e.g. a quiet room with a video link and a live transcript, etc.

But it always seems to me that it's not so much that several individuals with this rare condition have presented themselves, and organisers have come up with a way to adapt. Rather, it seems that an imagined other is continually being created, who's ever more vulnerable and has such pressing needs that everyone must refrain from common social norms and adopt a peculiarly idiosyncratic mode of interaction, with finger pointing at those unrighteous normies that haven't kept up. ("Oh, you don't see the need for jazz hands? I guess you hate people with disabilities, you callous bastard!", etc.) The ritual distinguishes insider from outsider, righteous from unrighteous - and I can't help but think that that's at least part of its point.

There are a number of people 'triggered' by applause, or indeed loud sound, noises etc... at public events, especially those on the autistic spectrum. Cinema and theatre are leading the way in making provision for them (link). However, even at these performances I've never heard of jazz hands. I also have seen dementia friendly performances at the theatre. But like you say, there is simply no need to make 'every' performance autism friendly, as it does somewhat take away from those who like the music loud and the pyrotechnics etc...

Like you say, the idea that everyone should refrain from what we consider common social norms in order to appear 'woke,' or to appear like you have even an ounce of empathy in you, seems extreme and alienating. Surely if we use theatres and cinema as a starting point there are endless possibilities for events to cater for the minority, without upsetting the majority. Yep. this is a case when 'lefties' need to recognise that even fellow lefties have limits.

Yes, I agree. I daresay there's some small fraction of people who, for whatever reason, can't cope with loud noise. But, like you say, there are a number of possible ways to accommodate their particular needs. I mean, presumably, such conditions are also found among a minority of attendees of the thousands of conferences and gatherings held around the world every day, not to mention movie- and theatre-goers - or, for that matter, public protests - though organisers of those events seem to have found a way to cater for them that doesn't involve all this rigmarole.

My hunch is that it's not merely about meeting that genuine need, though. Hence the reason the injunction keeps expanding to take in minimising 'gendered language', avoiding 'aggressive scents' and other common-or-garden facets of imperfect social interaction that this particular subculture has suddenly discovered a pressing risk of people being 'triggered' by, or has somehow managed to equate with hateful slurs and the like.

I'm banging on a bit about it, but all the 'performative wokeness' stuff on the Left is a personal bugbear! pissed lol

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #24 posted 08/13/19 11:26am

maplenpg

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deebee said:

maplenpg said:

There are a number of people 'triggered' by applause, or indeed loud sound, noises etc... at public events, especially those on the autistic spectrum. Cinema and theatre are leading the way in making provision for them (link). However, even at these performances I've never heard of jazz hands. I also have seen dementia friendly performances at the theatre. But like you say, there is simply no need to make 'every' performance autism friendly, as it does somewhat take away from those who like the music loud and the pyrotechnics etc...

Like you say, the idea that everyone should refrain from what we consider common social norms in order to appear 'woke,' or to appear like you have even an ounce of empathy in you, seems extreme and alienating. Surely if we use theatres and cinema as a starting point there are endless possibilities for events to cater for the minority, without upsetting the majority. Yep. this is a case when 'lefties' need to recognise that even fellow lefties have limits.

Yes, I agree. I daresay there's some small fraction of people who, for whatever reason, can't cope with loud noise. But, like you say, there are a number of possible ways to accommodate their particular needs. I mean, presumably, such conditions are also found among a minority of attendees of the thousands of conferences and gatherings held around the world every day, not to mention movie- and theatre-goers - or, for that matter, public protests - though organisers of those events seem to have found a way to cater for them that doesn't involve all this rigmarole.

My hunch is that it's not merely about meeting that genuine need, though. Hence the reason the injunction keeps expanding to take in minimising 'gendered language', avoiding 'aggressive scents' and other common-or-garden facets of imperfect social interaction that this particular subculture has suddenly discovered a pressing risk of people being 'triggered' by, or has somehow managed to equate with hateful slurs and the like.

I'm banging on a bit about it, but all the 'performative wokeness' stuff on the Left is a personal bugbear! pissed lol

We all have our own personal bugbear. My current one is how BoJo is using the ignorance of people about the prison system to sell a nonsense political agenda to garner votes for his looming election (I'm not saying people are willfully ignorant, just that most of the people BoJo is aiming for have little knowledge of what goes on inside prisons). The reality of his promises are far away from the bullshit he's vomtiing from his cakehole. mad

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #25 posted 08/13/19 4:06pm

2freaky4church
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Nathan J Robinson of Current Affairs was there. He has a good view of DSA meeting.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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