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Reply #60 posted 06/01/19 9:26pm

benni

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jjhunsecker said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Why were times like that? Because you have a lot of shitty people in this world. Shitty people come in all classes and all colors. I've dealt with my share, from the South Bronx projects to the Long Island suburbs. I'm wary of anyone outside of immediate family, but I admit that I'm more cynical than most.

True dat.... And I might even have you beat on the cynicism front. One thing I learned from my Italian friends of my youth, and that is never trust anyone unless you know them personally



And I learned in my youth, you can't even always trust the people you do know. :-/ What a world we live in, eh?

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Reply #61 posted 06/01/19 9:34pm

benni

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2elijah said:

benni said:



It's just so sad. Those kids lost a significant portion of their youth behind bars for a crime they did not commit. And no matter whether they did seek a civil suit, they have to live with what being locked up has done to them. I doubt very seriously if they trust anyone very easily any more.

Yes it was very sad. The media painted them as monsters for a crime they never committed. There have been several cases like that throughout this country, so theirs surely isn’t the first. I’m just glad they got their justice.


That's womething that doesn't make sense to me. Why did the media paint them as such monsters? Was it because that's what the cops were telling them? I mean the kids were maintaining their innocence the entire time, and they definitely didn't look like monsters.

I can't claim they got justice. They were exonerated. The city had to reimburse them for what was done to them. But if the prosecutor and the cops did not experience any ramifications - lost their jobs, their license to practice, lost their pensions, were investigated and found guilty, then those kids did not get justice. They just didn't. Most people know they are innocent now - I guess that is some justice - but when you have someone like Trump still claiming they are guilty, and his base will believe whatever Trump says, they still have to live with the fact that there are always some out there that still see them as guilty. Whereas, if the cops had done their actual damn jobs, the trajectory of their lives would have been so vastly different and no one, NO ONE, would have painted them as monsters or painted them as guilty to begin with. But now? No, they didn't get justice.

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Reply #62 posted 06/01/19 11:05pm

jjhunsecker

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benni said:



jjhunsecker said:


benni said:



That's what I don't understand, jj. Why were those times like that? It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone could mistreat someone else, and especially not for anything they did, but simply because of how they look. And that's what it comes down to, it's not anything that these boys did, the guy that was picking up trash around his apartment building, it wasn't anything he did (and the cop pulled out a gun on him).

I picked up my daughter a little while ago (missed whatever Poke said that got pulled) and I can tell her mom is still cautious around me. She doesn't know me, she doesn't know what I'm about yet. We've only met twice. And I'm fine with her caution, I understand it. She's moved here from New York, and things are decidedly different in the south. So I'm thinking at some point of having a barbecue somewhere and inviting her, her family, so that we can get to know each other. And will just take my time with her until she knows she can trust me, that I am who I am. I figure time and patience is key.




One thing from those days in NYC (and other urban areas) was that a lot of racial incidents involved mainly lower middle class Italian-Americans and sometimes Irish/Americans. I suspect a lot of the dynamic was that they wanted someone to feel "superior " to . And this need was often expressed through violence. I personally was subjected to several such incidents- from walking down the street and called "n****r", to threats, to physical confrontations... (And no, I'm not playing the "race card " or have a "victim mentality " like some might claim..... I'm simply describing exactly what I experienced) [Edited 6/1/19 16:16pm]



I think the world will become a better place when everyone realizes that none of us superior to another, but until we realize that, there won't ever be any true equality either.

jj, I actually got teary eyed when you said you'd experienced several incidents. You've always been such a true sweetheart, kind and patient (at least with me) and I just can't imagine anyone treating you that way. And you aren't playing the race card, you are just stating your experiences. It's no different than me sharing my childhood experiences and no one has ever said I was using the "gender card" or that I have a "victim mentality" for it. Neither do you. Our experiences are real to us, they are what help to shape us and help us to develop our views of the world and the people around us. (((((jj))))) I'm sorry that you (or anyone on here) ever experienced anything like that. It's not deserved. It's not right. And it's not justified.

Big love at you.



Thanks so much Benni- it's always a pleasure conversing with you on here.

I just tell my truth, and I can't worry if it upsets others who have an agenda, or can't handle reality
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Reply #63 posted 06/01/19 11:22pm

maplenpg

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jjhunsecker said:

benni said:


That's what I don't understand, jj. Why were those times like that? It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone could mistreat someone else, and especially not for anything they did, but simply because of how they look. And that's what it comes down to, it's not anything that these boys did, the guy that was picking up trash around his apartment building, it wasn't anything he did (and the cop pulled out a gun on him).

I picked up my daughter a little while ago (missed whatever Poke said that got pulled) and I can tell her mom is still cautious around me. She doesn't know me, she doesn't know what I'm about yet. We've only met twice. And I'm fine with her caution, I understand it. She's moved here from New York, and things are decidedly different in the south. So I'm thinking at some point of having a barbecue somewhere and inviting her, her family, so that we can get to know each other. And will just take my time with her until she knows she can trust me, that I am who I am. I figure time and patience is key.


One thing from those days in NYC (and other urban areas) was that a lot of racial incidents involved mainly lower middle class Italian-Americans and sometimes Irish/Americans. I suspect a lot of the dynamic was that they wanted someone to feel "superior " to . And this need was often expressed through violence. I personally was subjected to several such incidents- from walking down the street and called "n****r", to threats, to physical confrontations... (And no, I'm not playing the "race card " or have a "victim mentality " like some might claim...... I'm simply describing exactly what I experienced) [Edited 6/1/19 16:16pm]

I think the need for superiority is at the core of racism.

If love is the answer, what was the question? - Carter USM.
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Reply #64 posted 06/02/19 11:24am

2elijah

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benni said:



2elijah said:


benni said:




It's just so sad. Those kids lost a significant portion of their youth behind bars for a crime they did not commit. And no matter whether they did seek a civil suit, they have to live with what being locked up has done to them. I doubt very seriously if they trust anyone very easily any more.



Yes it was very sad. The media painted them as monsters for a crime they never committed. There have been several cases like that throughout this country, so theirs surely isn’t the first. I’m just glad they got their justice.


That's womething that doesn't make sense to me. Why did the media paint them as such monsters? Was it because that's what the cops were telling them? I mean the kids were maintaining their innocence the entire time, and they definitely didn't look like monsters.

I can't claim they got justice. They were exonerated. The city had to reimburse them for what was done to them. But if the prosecutor and the cops did not experience any ramifications - lost their jobs, their license to practice, lost their pensions, were investigated and found guilty, then those kids did not get justice. They just didn't. Most people know they are innocent now - I guess that is some justice - but when you have someone like Trump still claiming they are guilty, and his base will believe whatever Trump says, they still have to live with the fact that there are always some out there that still see them as guilty. Whereas, if the cops had done their actual damn jobs, the trajectory of their lives would have been so vastly different and no one, NO ONE, would have painted them as monsters or painted them as guilty to begin with. But now? No, they didn't get justice.


It’s pretty clear why they called them monsters. They use the typical Black boogeyman tactic. It kept their audience glued to the screens, and then there was ratings. Some in LE using that case for promotions at the expense of those then, young teens’ lives. They didn’t care how they hurt those kids, because they were Black kids, and the LE personnel and prosecutor involved didn’t see any value to those teens’ lives.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #65 posted 06/02/19 11:49am

2elijah

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DiminutiveRocker said:



2elijah said:


jjhunsecker said:
And remember- Trump says he STILL thinks they're guilty, even though the physical evidence exonerated them, and doesn't believe that the city should have settled the suit

That’s because he’s a disgusting piece of shit. He wanted them executed for a crime they never committed. He doesn’t want to admit he was wrong about them.



That racism is part of the reason he got elected.



He got elected because he spoke the language many of his supporters don’t say out loud, but think it, and also have the same, racist beliefs he has towards people of color. It’s his character that is disgusting, and his ignorance about/disrespect towards people of color
[Edited 6/2/19 11:56am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #66 posted 06/02/19 11:52am

2elijah

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maplenpg said:



jjhunsecker said:


benni said:



That's what I don't understand, jj. Why were those times like that? It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone could mistreat someone else, and especially not for anything they did, but simply because of how they look. And that's what it comes down to, it's not anything that these boys did, the guy that was picking up trash around his apartment building, it wasn't anything he did (and the cop pulled out a gun on him).

I picked up my daughter a little while ago (missed whatever Poke said that got pulled) and I can tell her mom is still cautious around me. She doesn't know me, she doesn't know what I'm about yet. We've only met twice. And I'm fine with her caution, I understand it. She's moved here from New York, and things are decidedly different in the south. So I'm thinking at some point of having a barbecue somewhere and inviting her, her family, so that we can get to know each other. And will just take my time with her until she knows she can trust me, that I am who I am. I figure time and patience is key.




One thing from those days in NYC (and other urban areas) was that a lot of racial incidents involved mainly lower middle class Italian-Americans and sometimes Irish/Americans. I suspect a lot of the dynamic was that they wanted someone to feel "superior " to . And this need was often expressed through violence. I personally was subjected to several such incidents- from walking down the street and called "n****r", to threats, to physical confrontations... (And no, I'm not playing the "race card " or have a "victim mentality " like some might claim..... I'm simply describing exactly what I experienced) [Edited 6/1/19 16:16pm]

I think the need for superiority is at the core of racism.


Most definitely. If that wasn’t the case, racist laws would have had no need to exist, barring specific groups from certain freedoms.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #67 posted 06/02/19 11:59am

2elijah

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13cjk13 said:



poppys said:


Trump always wanted the back page so more people would see it when others read it on the subway. This is a crummy copy but it's hard to find one that will let me post.


This is the full page $85,000 ad Trump took out in 4 major city newspapers, in response to the CPJ case. psydoctor8.tumblr.



He has been a piece of shit his entire, miserable life.


Yes, I remember when he had that ad out.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #68 posted 06/02/19 12:09pm

2elijah

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Before the Central Park Five, there was this one:

The Scottsboro Boys:

https://nmaahc.si.edu/blo...sboro-boys

Only 3 received posthumous pardons 80 years later, by Alabama in 2013. The film ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’ is loosely based on that incident.
[Edited 6/2/19 12:09pm]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #69 posted 06/02/19 8:30pm

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

DiminutiveRocker said:



2elijah said:


jjhunsecker said:
And remember- Trump says he STILL thinks they're guilty, even though the physical evidence exonerated them, and doesn't believe that the city should have settled the suit

That’s because he’s a disgusting piece of shit. He wanted them executed for a crime they never committed. He doesn’t want to admit he was wrong about them.



That racism is part of the reason he got elected.



He got elected because he spoke the language many of his supporters don’t say out loud, but think it, and also have the same, racist beliefs he has towards people of color. It’s his character that is disgusting, and his ignorance about/disrespect towards people of color
[Edited 6/2/19 11:56am]


So true. Trump represents the ugly underbelly of America- the bigotry and ignorance and hatred and violence
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Reply #70 posted 06/03/19 2:44pm

uPtoWnNY

benni said:

jjhunsecker said:

uPtoWnNY said: True dat.... And I might even have you beat on the cynicism front. One thing I learned from my Italian friends of my youth, and that is never trust anyone unless you know them personally



And I learned in my youth, you can't even always trust the people you do know. :-/ What a world we live in, eh?

Same as it ever was.....

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Reply #71 posted 06/04/19 11:03am

poppys

Email recieved 5/31/2019. Bolded was already there.


(-----),

Ava DuVernay here. I’m a filmmaker who created and directed Selma, 13th, Queen Sugar, Wrinkle In Time and now When They See Us.

When They See Us is a four-part film with a stellar cast that chronicles the case of the men commonly known as The Central Park Five. The story we tell will transport you to New York City in 1989 and follow five Black and Latino teenagers who are falsely accused, convicted and imprisoned for a rape that they did not commit.

When They See Us is a love letter to these men, whose childhoods were stolen by this harrowing case. It is also a love letter to the millions of boys and girls of color who are presumed guilty on sight. My goal is to shed light on the inequities and the bias that makes a case like this possible. We explore a travesty of justice laid bare. We chronicle a broken system fueled by politics, profit and inaction. But we can and should take action.

I’ve been partnering with Color Of Change for years. Their “Winning Justice” campaign is rallying Black communities to come together and set the agenda for a new wave of prosecutors.

Prosecutors have more power than anyone else in the system to fix the system. And in a dozen cities, thanks to many of you, we now have prosecutors being measured by their commitment to justice rather than by how many people they put in prison.

I’m hoping you’ll watch When They See Us and be moved to discuss and interrogate the the current criminal system of injustice. But I also hope you don’t stop there.

Here's how you can make your voice heard:

Visit Winning Justice to ...ommunities

  • to reform our bail system so people’s freedom is not determined by how much they can pay for it;
  • to treat children in the system like children and not criminals;
  • to hold prosecutors accountable for wrongful conviction

And so much more.

You really can make a difference.

Onward,

Ava DuVernay

Color Of Change is building a movement to elevate the voices of Black folks and our allies, and win real social and political change. Help keep our movement strong.


[Edited 6/4/19 22:02pm]

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Reply #72 posted 06/08/19 9:50pm

jjhunsecker

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uPtoWnNY said:



jjhunsecker said:


benni said:




Pokeno, there are people I have hated but I do not mistreat them because of that hatred. I don't think it's about hate.

Your post is extremely racist. When you think that white people have been marginalized, mistreated for being white, profiled for being white, are shot at greater numbers by the police than their black counterparts for committing the same crime -- when, in fact, the opposite is the truth - is racist.

You want to see yourself as the victim. You want to see the white person as the victim of hatred, but you know what? I have NEVER been mistreated by a person of color - but I have been by white people.


https://www.nbcnews.com/n...s-n1006851

True story ---^

He was just picking up trash on his property and had a gun pulled on him by the police. A white person would NEVER have a cop pull a gun on them when they are picking up trash from their own residence.

From the Pew research:



4There has been a steady increase in the share of Americans who view racism as a big problem in the U.S. – especially among African Americans. Since 2009, the first year of Barack Obama’s presidency, the share of those who consider racism a big problem has grown among all racial groups. This is especially true for black Americans. In 2017, about eight-in-ten blacks (81%) said racism is a big problem in society today, up from 44% eight years prior. By comparison, about half of whites (52%) said racism is a big problem in our society, up from 22% in 2009. There were also partisan divides on this question, which have grown from 2015.


5An overwhelming majority of blacks (92%) say whites benefit at least a fair amount from advantages that blacks do not have. This includes nearly seven-in-ten blacks (68%) who say whites benefit a great deal. By comparison, 46% of whites say whites benefit at least a fair amount from advantages in society that blacks don’t have, with just 16% saying whites benefit a great deal. As with views on racism in the U.S., there are wide partisan divides on this question. In addition, those who do not think white people benefit from societal advantages are more likely to say they approve of President Donald Trump’s job performance, while those who think whites greatly benefit from these advantages are nearly unanimous in their disapproval of Trump.

And I'm sorry, but I can't take any Rassmussen poll seriously.


After the 2010 midterm elections, Silver concluded that Rasmussen's polls were the least accurate of the major pollsters in 2010, having an average error of 5.8 points and a pro-Republican bias of 3.9 points according to Silver's model.



The response you got was pure absurdity... that Blacks are "the real racists" who have a "victim mentality ". You can't even debate something so ridiculous, but I give you a lot of credit for trying. Keep in mind that poster once claimed to be Black himself, but later denied saying that. I call him Stephen... Quentin Tarantino fans will understand why... One would need to be a trained psychotherapist to untangle the motivations behind such a belief expressed in his response


Claimed to be black? Interesting. That says a lot.



I see many right-leaning folks spouting the "blacks are the real racists" bs on social media nowadays. Just another way for these morons to deflect.



Some idiot recently called Jordan Peele (the son of a White woman who is married to a White woman) an "anti-White bigot"... Like you said, the latest right wing meme to deflect from reality
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Reply #73 posted 06/08/19 11:45pm

jjhunsecker

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I began watching this tonight- simply devasting ...

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Reply #74 posted 06/09/19 8:42am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

benni said:



jjhunsecker said:


Those were crazy times. That same year saw the horrific murder of a Black youth named Yusuf Hawkins who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was murdered by a White gang in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn.



When I was growing up in Brooklyn around that time, whie I had a very diverse group of friends (my mother wanted me to go to a mainly White High School, since they would have the better teachers and facilities), there were also race riots at the time as well.




That's what I don't understand, jj. Why were those times like that? It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone could mistreat someone else, and especially not for anything they did, but simply because of how they look. And that's what it comes down to, it's not anything that these boys did, the guy that was picking up trash around his apartment building, it wasn't anything he did (and the cop pulled out a gun on him).

I picked up my daughter a little while ago (missed whatever Poke said that got pulled) and I can tell her mom is still cautious around me. She doesn't know me, she doesn't know what I'm about yet. We've only met twice. And I'm fine with her caution, I understand it. She's moved here from New York, and things are decidedly different in the south. So I'm thinking at some point of having a barbecue somewhere and inviting her, her family, so that we can get to know each other. And will just take my time with her until she knows she can trust me, that I am who I am. I figure time and patience is key.




One thing from those days in NYC (and other urban areas) was that a lot of racial incidents involved mainly lower middle class Italian-Americans and sometimes Irish/Americans. I suspect a lot of the dynamic was that they wanted someone to feel "superior " to . And this need was often expressed through violence.

I personally was subjected to several such incidents- from walking down the street and called "n****r", to threats, to physical confrontations...
(And no, I'm not playing the "race card " or have a "victim mentality " like some might claim..... I'm simply describing exactly what I experienced)
[Edited 6/1/19 16:16pm]

I can back that up for you since were both from NYC. I remember when a racial incident happened in an Italian community because some middle-class Black families were moving in, and their homes were pipe-bombed. This happened in a specific, predominantly Italian community in Queens, NYC. I remember the residents on the news when it was reported stating they did not want Black families on their community. The pipe bombs contined through the late 80s there. It stopped during the early 90s when more White families decided to move out, and other non-Black families started moving in. There are still just a handful of Italians living there, but today that town is racially diverse. It was no secret that that particular community was once dominated by the Italian Mafia. Most everyone in the surrounding towns knew of this, because back in the late 70s early 80s. if you were Black, especially if you were a Black male, and walked through that community you were either chased by white boys with bats or beat up by them. There were also similar stories of that happening in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn at the time,
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #75 posted 06/09/19 9:06am

poppys

I lived on 8th Ave and 8th St when I first moved to Brooklyn in 1980. The (Irish American) deli across the street from me kept bats and chased black people that they didn't know off the block. Some that they knew could walk there anytime and black people could go there at lunchtime.

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Reply #76 posted 06/09/19 4:16pm

2elijah

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poppys said:

I lived on 8th Ave and 8th St when I first moved to Brooklyn in 1980. The (Irish American) deli across the street from me kept bats and chased black people that they didn't know off the block. Some that they knew could walk there anytime and black people could go there at lunchtime.


Yep, that bat-chasing was common in the 80s unfortunately. My brother was going on a job interview, and had to walk through a predominately-White community, and a woman cane out her house, yelled at him, and asked what he was doing on the block. Next thing you know some White boys came out the house with bats chasing him off the block. Crazy times.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #77 posted 06/13/19 3:35pm

uPtoWnNY

There's just as much racial hatred/segregation in northeast cities like NY & Boston as there is in the deepest south. It's more covert up here, which to me, is more ominous.

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Reply #78 posted 06/13/19 6:17pm

benni

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Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.

[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]

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Reply #79 posted 06/13/19 6:25pm

jjhunsecker

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benni said:

Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.

[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]



Benni - Do you think Trump and his rhetoric brought that out in people who have kept those thoughts to themselves, or helped "normalize " those kinds of beliefs?
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Reply #80 posted 06/13/19 6:29pm

benni

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jjhunsecker said:

benni said:

Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.

[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]

Benni - Do you think Trump and his rhetoric brought that out in people who have kept those thoughts to themselves, or helped "normalize " those kinds of beliefs?



I don't think he "brought it out in people" because obviously they have always had this kind of belief. I do think that Trump has made it acceptable to talk about more openly and not hide it. I've actually been very surprised in recent times, listening to the office staff, my boss today, and other employees because they've never said anything like that in the 10 years I've been working there, until recently. I never had any clue that they felt the way they obviously do.

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Reply #81 posted 06/13/19 6:37pm

benni

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jjhunsecker said:

benni said:

Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.

[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]

Benni - Do you think Trump and his rhetoric brought that out in people who have kept those thoughts to themselves, or helped "normalize " those kinds of beliefs?



And what is shocking to me, is that this agency is VERY diverse. Some of the highest positions in the agency are held by minorities. But now, I'm wondering if the people I work closest to believe they only have those positions because of affirmative action. To me, some of the people in those higher positions are the hardest working and most knowledgable about our program. I have relied on them numerous times when I've had a question about policy or about the program, because of their knowledge base. But in recent days, I've been questioning the ones (white employees) I work closest to wondering how they truly view our minorities in even the highest positions. They are always respectful to them, talk to them respectfully, but I have heard their discontent and just put it off to stress for a long time (because this job can be very stressful, especially when you have policies that change frequently), but I don't think it's stress related any more.

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Reply #82 posted 06/14/19 5:21am

2elijah

avatar

benni said:

Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.

[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]


Benni, even if you found another job, you will unfortunately still find people with that type of mentality. All you can do is either educate them about the misinformation they’ve been taught as truth, with the ‘actual truth.’ It’s sad that many that have said those things to you, but seems to have amnesia or ignorant that they and their ancestors were/are immigrants. Had their ancestors not arrive here from their birth country, they may not have been here as well.

Had this country not been built on a system of racism and slavery, then America today, would not have race issues and ignorant, racist ideology still being embraced in present day. That proof is in the pudding with racial profiling and selective treatment based on race, still being an issue in this country.

Unfortunately, the Central Park Five were not the first or only ones, this happened to. There were so many cases before them, where many Blacks were charged for crimes they were falsely accused of like the case of the Scottsboro boys.
[Edited 6/14/19 5:25am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #83 posted 06/14/19 5:58am

poppys

Many white people are very under the radar about what they say, especially here with a majority black population. I do pick up on it, what stores they won't go to, talking about crime being an "epidemic", generic hand-wringing. When we first came here and looked for places to live, certain landlords would say the neighborhood was more free of "the element". Unfortunately, it's very hard to educate someone like that because they would never admit to you they are speaking racially, even when you directly challenge what they say.

In St Croix, which was 90% African-Caribbean, some white people that came there from the States were more vocal, calling out "reverse racism". They mostly had secure, coveted jobs in the oil refinery, with all the perks. But they really didn't last long. Most of them leave, I think because they can't handle living in a majority black place, where the government is run by black people.

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Reply #84 posted 06/14/19 6:08am

benni

avatar

2elijah said:

benni said:

Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.

[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]

Benni, even if you found another job, you will unfortunately still find people with that type of mentality. All you can do is either educate them about the misinformation they’ve been taught as truth, with the ‘actual truth.’ It’s sad that many that have said those things to you, but seems to have amnesia or ignorant that they and their ancestors were/are immigrants. Had their ancestors not arrive here from their birth country, they may not have been here as well. Had this country not been built on a system of racism and slavery, then America today, would not have race issues and ignorant, racist ideology still being embraced in present day. That proof is in the pudding with racial profiling and selective treatment based on race, still being an issue in this country. Unfortunately, the Central Park Five were not the first or only ones, this happened to. There were so many cases before them, where many Blacks were charged for crimes they were falsely accused of like the case of the Scottsboro boys. [Edited 6/14/19 5:25am]


I know I will find others here with that same mentality, especially in South Carolina which tends to be a very strong red state. I wanted to step up and say something to my boss yesterday, but her eyes held such a hatred in them that it shocked me and I wasn't sure what I could say to her. If she believes that strongly, she won't listen to me. I have attempted to educate others that I've overheard saying such comment related to affirmative action, telling them how those in the higher positions within our agency are very hard workers, very knowledgeable, and how they are doing an excellent job in those positions and have earned those positions 10 times over. And I remind them that unfortunately, affirmative action is still needed today, because without it, black people would never advance in positions because people's racists views would stop them from advancing or hiring highly qualified individuals. Their response, "You know they put some people in those positions that are not qualified just because they are black and they have to. You see it happen all the time."

I have a couple of reasons for looking for a new job, but this is pushing me to look harder. My company doesn't offer insurance, and I have to use a tax subsidy to get insurance now. My deductible, even with that tax subsidy, is $7600. If Trump and the republicans are successful in ending the ACA, I will lose that tax subsidy and my insurance will cost me over $700 a month. I can't afford that. The other reason is I do a lot of driving and it is tearing my car apart. It needs some major repairs right now that I can't afford, but I'm going to have to rob Peter to pay Paul in order to get them done, because it's getting worse. The position that I'm trying for will allow me to work from home. I will have to do some traveling, but not as much as I do right now.

And 2elijah, it is still happening in this country. Central Park 5 were not the first and they were not the last either. sad And

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Reply #85 posted 06/15/19 8:27am

uPtoWnNY

poppys said:

Many white people are very under the radar about what they say, especially here with a majority black population. I do pick up on it, what stores they won't go to, talking about crime being an "epidemic", generic hand-wringing. When we first came here and looked for places to live, certain landlords would say the neighborhood was more free of "the element". Unfortunately, it's very hard to educate someone like that because they would never admit to you they are speaking racially, even when you directly challenge what they say.

In St Croix, which was 90% African-Caribbean, some white people that came there from the States were more vocal, calling out "reverse racism". They mostly had secure, coveted jobs in the oil refinery, with all the perks. But they really didn't last long. Most of them leave, I think because they can't handle living in a majority black place, where the government is run by black people.

It's not just white folks - other people of color have no use for us either. The world has a very low opinion of Africans and those of Africans descent. That thinking has been around for hundreds of years and is never going away. So when it comes to racist incidents, I'm never shocked or surprised because most humans are garbage. Outside ot family & friends, I keep to myself and trust no one.

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Reply #86 posted 06/15/19 8:58am

poppys

uPtoWnNY said:

poppys said:

Many white people are very under the radar about what they say, especially here with a majority black population. I do pick up on it, what stores they won't go to, talking about crime being an "epidemic", generic hand-wringing. When we first came here and looked for places to live, certain landlords would say the neighborhood was more free of "the element". Unfortunately, it's very hard to educate someone like that because they would never admit to you they are speaking racially, even when you directly challenge what they say.

In St Croix, which was 90% African-Caribbean, some white people that came there from the States were more vocal, calling out "reverse racism". They mostly had secure, coveted jobs in the oil refinery, with all the perks. But they really didn't last long. Most of them leave, I think because they can't handle living in a majority black place, where the government is run by black people.

It's not just white folks - other people of color have no use for us either. The world has a very low opinion of Africans and those of Africans descent. That thinking has been around for hundreds of years and is never going away. So when it comes to racist incidents, I'm never shocked or surprised because most humans are garbage. Outside ot family & friends, I keep to myself and trust no one.


That is so true Uptown. People in general are so picky and judgemental. White people hate each other too, there is no real bonding. When there was so much opioid overdosing going on in the hick towns of Ohio near where I'm from, people were saying they didn't want to pay taxes for Narcan.

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Reply #87 posted 06/15/19 9:25am

uPtoWnNY

poppys said:

uPtoWnNY said:

It's not just white folks - other people of color have no use for us either. The world has a very low opinion of Africans and those of Africans descent. That thinking has been around for hundreds of years and is never going away. So when it comes to racist incidents, I'm never shocked or surprised because most humans are garbage. Outside ot family & friends, I keep to myself and trust no one.


That is so true Uptown. People in general are so picky and judgemental. White people hate each other too, there is no real bonding. When there was so much opioid overdosing going on in the hick towns of Ohio near where I'm from, people were saying they didn't want to pay taxes for Narcan.

In 1982, I attended a lecture given by legendary broadcaster Pablo Guzman. He said something I've never forgotten....that black(and brown) people are quicker to fight and get bad with each other than with the folks who are making things hot for us. So true.

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Reply #88 posted 06/15/19 10:27am

jjhunsecker

avatar

benni said:



2elijah said:


benni said:

Y'all are breaking my heart. Not a one of you ever deserved to be treated in any way other than with the utmost respect and love. Unfortunately, I see it a lot in the south. I realized today that I work with a lot of people that have some racial prejudice, except that they try to disguise it. I hear these comments from co-workers saying things like, "Well, you know why they aren't firing so and so, but if it was a white person...." (They are talking about affirmative action.) Today, I listened to my boss as she started going on about immigration and how they "don't deserve my tax money, if they want to come here, then they need to do it the right way, and stop taking my tax dollars". Then she started talking about these "people on our program, who has their kids getting paid to care for them, and they are wasting our tax dollars and need to get off their lazy butts and get a job," (she was directing that toward the minorities and their family members on our program). I was absolutely shocked, because I had never heard her speak that way before, and she has always been very sweet and kind to the minorities that work in the same program. (Now these are case managers and case manager supervisors that are working with elderly and disabled people that are saying things like this.) I'm trying to find another job because I don't want to support that kind of mentality. It was heartbreaking because these are people I had always respected, but I'm seeing these things in them and it was never evident before.


[Edited 6/13/19 18:18pm]



Benni, even if you found another job, you will unfortunately still find people with that type of mentality. All you can do is either educate them about the misinformation they’ve been taught as truth, with the ‘actual truth.’ It’s sad that many that have said those things to you, but seems to have amnesia or ignorant that they and their ancestors were/are immigrants. Had their ancestors not arrive here from their birth country, they may not have been here as well. Had this country not been built on a system of racism and slavery, then America today, would not have race issues and ignorant, racist ideology still being embraced in present day. That proof is in the pudding with racial profiling and selective treatment based on race, still being an issue in this country. Unfortunately, the Central Park Five were not the first or only ones, this happened to. There were so many cases before them, where many Blacks were charged for crimes they were falsely accused of like the case of the Scottsboro boys. [Edited 6/14/19 5:25am]


I know I will find others here with that same mentality, especially in South Carolina which tends to be a very strong red state. I wanted to step up and say something to my boss yesterday, but her eyes held such a hatred in them that it shocked me and I wasn't sure what I could say to her. If she believes that strongly, she won't listen to me. I have attempted to educate others that I've overheard saying such comment related to affirmative action, telling them how those in the higher positions within our agency are very hard workers, very knowledgeable, and how they are doing an excellent job in those positions and have earned those positions 10 times over. And I remind them that unfortunately, affirmative action is still needed today, because without it, black people would never advance in positions because people's racists views would stop them from advancing or hiring highly qualified individuals. Their response, "You know they put some people in those positions that are not qualified just because they are black and they have to. You see it happen all the time."

I have a couple of reasons for looking for a new job, but this is pushing me to look harder. My company doesn't offer insurance, and I have to use a tax subsidy to get insurance now. My deductible, even with that tax subsidy, is $7600. If Trump and the republicans are successful in ending the ACA, I will lose that tax subsidy and my insurance will cost me over $700 a month. I can't afford that. The other reason is I do a lot of driving and it is tearing my car apart. It needs some major repairs right now that I can't afford, but I'm going to have to rob Peter to pay Paul in order to get them done, because it's getting worse. The position that I'm trying for will allow me to work from home. I will have to do some traveling, but not as much as I do right now.

And 2elijah, it is still happening in this country. Central Park 5 were not the first and they were not the last either. sad And



Benni- What your witnessed in your office is something that most fairly successful Black people have experienced- namely that White people (and other non Black folks) question your abilities and accomplishments constantly. That you couldn't actually be the best or most accomplished or experienced- that SOMETHING else must be the reason that the Black person has more money or a better job or better education

Trump's "birtherism" against Obama was just the most extreme manisfestation of this mindset, but sadly it's very common in my experience
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Reply #89 posted 06/15/19 10:29am

jjhunsecker

avatar

uPtoWnNY said:



poppys said:




uPtoWnNY said:





It's not just white folks - other people of color have no use for us either. The world has a very low opinion of Africans and those of Africans descent. That thinking has been around for hundreds of years and is never going away. So when it comes to racist incidents, I'm never shocked or surprised because most humans are garbage. Outside ot family & friends, I keep to myself and trust no one.




That is so true Uptown. People in general are so picky and judgemental. White people hate each other too, there is no real bonding. When there was so much opioid overdosing going on in the hick towns of Ohio near where I'm from, people were saying they didn't want to pay taxes for Narcan.




In 1982, I attended a lecture given by legendary broadcaster Pablo Guzman. He said something I've never forgotten....that black(and brown) people are quicker to fight and get bad with each other than with the folks who are making things hot for us. So true.



Very true- I used to love Pablo when he had a radio show and a culture beat column for the Daily News
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