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Reply #210 posted 03/01/19 1:49am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

I have nothing to do with the Clinton Foundation and make no money from any charity work.

.

Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.

You supported Hillary Clinton and also advocate for her political equivalents in Australia. Support for the Maduro government i can understand. But you supported Hillary Clinton and the Labour Party of Australia which is worse than supporting the Maduro government. Take a seat Ian with your finger pointing at black socialists in Venezuela. You are in no position to talk.

.

I never supported Hillary and have not advocated for her political equivalents - That is a lie.

.

Keep posting, you are getting deeper and more desperate.

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Reply #211 posted 03/01/19 1:57am

IanRG

deebee said:

IanRG said:

.

Read the article and try Google. It says far more than the ICRC have (properly and appropriately) refused to collaborate with US aid with strings. It mentions the negotiations that the Red Cross has had with Maduro to negotiate getting more aid in - but it is still insignificant. There are many articles that dicsuss this effort stating Maduro allowed the Red Cross only a meagre doubling of aid despite 10% being malnourished and critical medical shortages. The article talks about the need for more and the reviews that the NGOs are now being subjected to limit what they can do. There is not indication that these NGOs were trying to give aid with strings - and the article would have mentioned this if they were.

I have read the article, and tried Google prior to asking the initial question, and I can't find evidence that would support the claim that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." It's a claim you've made, so common standards of debate would dictate that it's for you to support. I'm not dismissing it out of hand; I'm simply asking to see the evidence that backs it up.

.

Did you see how little aid Maduro is letting in? He only allowed a doubling by the Red Cross and they have said the needs are huge and this doubling will not be enough.

.

Did you read how NGOs are being subjected to increased scrutiny to limit what they are doing?

.

Asking someone to prove things you don't like to hear is being dismissive. You have not asked for a single piece of proof from anyone else here, especially hausofmoi7's conspiracy theories.

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Reply #212 posted 03/01/19 2:01am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


I have nothing to do with the Clinton Foundation and make no money from any charity work.


.


Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.



You supported Hillary Clinton and also advocate for her political equivalents in Australia. Support for the Maduro government i can understand. But you supported Hillary Clinton and the Labour Party of Australia which is worse than supporting the Maduro government. Take a seat Ian with your finger pointing at black socialists in Venezuela. You are in no position to talk.

.


I never supported Hillary and have not advocated for her political equivalents - That is a lie.


.


Keep posting, you are getting deeper and more desperate.


The Australian labour party is the equivalent of Clinton style politics.
You have the audacity to ask Maduro supporters to abondon the revolution.
I would have more respect for someone who supports Maduro than what you support in the Labour Party.

Then again, you did bend over backwards defending the Australian military involvement in Yemen.
You claimed “nothing to see here move along people”
You are a gatekeeper.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #213 posted 03/01/19 2:04am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



deebee said:




IanRG said:



.


Read the article and try Google. It says far more than the ICRC have (properly and appropriately) refused to collaborate with US aid with strings. It mentions the negotiations that the Red Cross has had with Maduro to negotiate getting more aid in - but it is still insignificant. There are many articles that dicsuss this effort stating Maduro allowed the Red Cross only a meagre doubling of aid despite 10% being malnourished and critical medical shortages. The article talks about the need for more and the reviews that the NGOs are now being subjected to limit what they can do. There is not indication that these NGOs were trying to give aid with strings - and the article would have mentioned this if they were.



I have read the article, and tried Google prior to asking the initial question, and I can't find evidence that would support the claim that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." It's a claim you've made, so common standards of debate would dictate that it's for you to support. I'm not dismissing it out of hand; I'm simply asking to see the evidence that backs it up.



.


Did you see how little aid Maduro is letting in? He only allowed a doubling by the Red Cross and they have said the needs are huge and this doubling will not be enough.


.


Did you read how NGOs are being subjected to increased scrutiny to limit what they are doing?


.


Asking someone to prove things you don't like to hear is being dismissive. You have not asked for a single piece of proof from anyone else here, especially hausofmoi7's conspiracy theories.




Asking for proof is being “dismissive” 😂
And then you claim I’m spreading conspiracy theories when I’m the one using eveidence and and actual facts.
You claim facts and eveidence is for conspiracy theorists.
Orwellian indeed.

Like the time you lied about what I said and convienvetky claimed it was deleted when people asked you to prove it.
(FYI the moderators probably have access to pre edited posts.
So I’m super confident I can prove you lied intentionally.
Also I’m confident no one else would claim that I wrote that or even have a screen shoot either.






.
[Edited 3/1/19 2:11am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #214 posted 03/01/19 2:09am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

Did you see how little aid Maduro is letting in? He only allowed a doubling by the Red Cross and they have said the needs are huge and this doubling will not be enough.

.

Did you read how NGOs are being subjected to increased scrutiny to limit what they are doing?

.

Asking someone to prove things you don't like to hear is being dismissive. You have not asked for a single piece of proof from anyone else here, especially hausofmoi7's conspiracy theories.

Asking for proof is being “dismissive” 😂 And then you claim I’m spreading conspiracy theories because I use eveidence and facts. Orwellian

.

I have demonstrated your sources have edited out things like when they quoted the parts of the report that was anti the Venezuelan oppostion but edited out the reports of the racist and classist attacks on the poor communities by Maduro's security forces. All conspiracy theorists think they use evidence and facts - most like you only look for what they want to see.

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Reply #215 posted 03/01/19 2:10am

deebee

avatar

IanRG said:

deebee said:

I have read the article, and tried Google prior to asking the initial question, and I can't find evidence that would support the claim that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." It's a claim you've made, so common standards of debate would dictate that it's for you to support. I'm not dismissing it out of hand; I'm simply asking to see the evidence that backs it up.

.

Did you see how little aid Maduro is letting in? He only allowed a doubling by the Red Cross and they have said the needs are huge and this doubling will not be enough.

.

Did you read how NGOs are being subjected to increased scrutiny to limit what they are doing?

.

Asking someone to prove things you don't like to hear is being dismissive. You have not asked for a single piece of proof from anyone else here, especially hausofmoi7's conspiracy theories.

I'm asking, very politely, for you to substantiate a claim you have made - namely, that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." This is common practice in a debate. What else I have or haven't asked is neither here nor there (though, for the record, I have disagreed profoundly with Haus on other Venezuela threads). But here I'm asking you to substantiate a claim you have made. Once again, I'm keeping an open mind, but I would like to see evidence to support the assertion.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #216 posted 03/01/19 2:14am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

I never supported Hillary and have not advocated for her political equivalents - That is a lie.

.

Keep posting, you are getting deeper and more desperate.

The Australian labour party is the equivalent of Clinton style politics. You have the audacity to ask Maduro supporters to abondon the revolution. I would have more respect for someone who supports Maduro than what you support in the Labour Party. Then again, you did bend over backwards defending the Australian military involvement in Yemen. You claimed “nothing to see here move along people” You are a gatekeeper.

.

I do not support the ALP.

.

Maduro abandoned the revolution, not me.

.

You lied that an Australian warship engaged in violent warfare activities with the Saudi navy against Yeman. I just pointed out all they did was refueling manoeuvres and they should not have.

.

Keep posting, it is continues to get deeper and more desperate.

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Reply #217 posted 03/01/19 2:15am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


Did you see how little aid Maduro is letting in? He only allowed a doubling by the Red Cross and they have said the needs are huge and this doubling will not be enough.


.


Did you read how NGOs are being subjected to increased scrutiny to limit what they are doing?


.


Asking someone to prove things you don't like to hear is being dismissive. You have not asked for a single piece of proof from anyone else here, especially hausofmoi7's conspiracy theories.



Asking for proof is being “dismissive” 😂 And then you claim I’m spreading conspiracy theories because I use eveidence and facts. Orwellian

.


I have demonstrated your sources have edited out things like when they quoted the parts of the report that was anti the Venezuelan oppostion but edited out the reports of the racist and classist attacks on the poor communities by Maduro's security forces. All conspiracy theorists think they use evidence and facts - most like you only look for what they want to see.


Choose my sources very carefully.
You should try it sometime.
Actually at this stage if you even had a source it would be something.
You are just repeating CIA and Trump talking points.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #218 posted 03/01/19 2:17am

IanRG

deebee said:

IanRG said:

.

Did you see how little aid Maduro is letting in? He only allowed a doubling by the Red Cross and they have said the needs are huge and this doubling will not be enough.

.

Did you read how NGOs are being subjected to increased scrutiny to limit what they are doing?

.

Asking someone to prove things you don't like to hear is being dismissive. You have not asked for a single piece of proof from anyone else here, especially hausofmoi7's conspiracy theories.

I'm asking, very politely, for you to substantiate a claim you have made - namely, that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." This is common practice in a debate. What else I have or haven't asked is neither here nor there (though, for the record, I have disagreed profoundly with Haus on other Venezuela threads). But here I'm asking you to substantiate a claim you have made. Once again, I'm keeping an open mind, but I would like to see evidence to support the assertion.

.

I am telling you politely that the Red Cross has stated that the recent doulbling of aid was accompanied with comments that this had to be negotiated with Maduro and that the Red Cross stated this is not enough. You say you have read the article but you missed that other NGOs reported increased scrutiny and limitation on what they are supplying - with no indication that they were supplying aid with strings.

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Reply #219 posted 03/01/19 2:18am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


I never supported Hillary and have not advocated for her political equivalents - That is a lie.


.


Keep posting, you are getting deeper and more desperate.



The Australian labour party is the equivalent of Clinton style politics. You have the audacity to ask Maduro supporters to abondon the revolution. I would have more respect for someone who supports Maduro than what you support in the Labour Party. Then again, you did bend over backwards defending the Australian military involvement in Yemen. You claimed “nothing to see here move along people” You are a gatekeeper.

.


I do not support the ALP.


.


Maduro abandoned the revolution, not me.


.


You lied that an Australian warship engaged in violent warfare activities with the Saudi navy against Yeman. I just pointed out all they did was refueling manoeuvres and they should not have.


.


Keep posting, it is continues to get deeper and more desperate.


Australia were enabling Yemen genocide but your centrist position tried to mitigate it by claiming “it wasn’t that bad”
Keep going your racism keeps shining through
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #220 posted 03/01/19 2:18am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

I have demonstrated your sources have edited out things like when they quoted the parts of the report that was anti the Venezuelan oppostion but edited out the reports of the racist and classist attacks on the poor communities by Maduro's security forces. All conspiracy theorists think they use evidence and facts - most like you only look for what they want to see.

Choose my sources very carefully. You should try it sometime. Actually at this stage if you even had a source it would be something. You are just repeating CIA and Trump talking points.

.

So the socialist collectives in Venezuela and Alfred de Zayas are CIA and Trump crony's?

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Reply #221 posted 03/01/19 2:23am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


I have demonstrated your sources have edited out things like when they quoted the parts of the report that was anti the Venezuelan oppostion but edited out the reports of the racist and classist attacks on the poor communities by Maduro's security forces. All conspiracy theorists think they use evidence and facts - most like you only look for what they want to see.



Choose my sources very carefully. You should try it sometime. Actually at this stage if you even had a source it would be something. You are just repeating CIA and Trump talking points.

.


So the socialist collectives in Venezuela and Alfred de Zayas are CIA and Trump crony's?


You are twisting Alfred De Zayas words and the socialists in Venezuela.
Maduro is the president of the socialist party!!
Many those you are quoting are either in the actual government or still support them at the end of the day.
That reality bothers you.

You are mad because those who are critical about how we should treat and deal with Nazis in Venezuela will not abondon the current government at the end of the day and join you in protecting Nazis at all costs.
Even if you don’t agree with Nazis fully you have more sympathy for them than thier victims/target.
The same way you defended Australia against helping Saudi Arabia in Yemen.





.
[Edited 3/1/19 2:39am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #222 posted 03/01/19 2:46am

deebee

avatar

IanRG said:

deebee said:

I'm asking, very politely, for you to substantiate a claim you have made - namely, that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." This is common practice in a debate. What else I have or haven't asked is neither here nor there (though, for the record, I have disagreed profoundly with Haus on other Venezuela threads). But here I'm asking you to substantiate a claim you have made. Once again, I'm keeping an open mind, but I would like to see evidence to support the assertion.

.

I am telling you politely that the Red Cross has stated that the recent doulbling of aid was accompanied with comments that this had to be negotiated with Maduro and that the Red Cross stated this is not enough. You say you have read the article but you missed that other NGOs reported increased scrutiny and limitation on what they are supplying - with no indication that they were supplying aid with strings.

Ian, we can go round and round the houses, but, ultimately, I would suggest you either support your claim with evidence, or swallow your pride and modify it, if it's not possible to do that. It's standard practice for the Red Cross to negotiate with governments and other parties to a conflict over access to the populations they serve - indeed, they would regard it as essential to the developing the trust their consent-based work depends on - so negotiation is nothing untoward that we can read anything into. It doesn't add up to the claim that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings."

Likewise, what is happening with NGOs does not help support your claim. You'll know, I trust, that the Red Cross is not an NGO, and that it has a recognised humanitarian mandate that NGOs do not have; and that it fiercely defends its neutrality in order to fulfil this mandate in a way that NGOs are not obliged to. Hence, it would be a more serious claim to make that a government was "limiting aid through the Red Cross" than common-or-garden, privately-managed NGOs.

Does your claim, perhaps, relate to NGOs, rather than the Red Cross, but you've misread or embellished the evidence and don't feel able now to back down? Or is there evidence for the original claim that you're going to present? Once again, I'm open to drawing any conclusions the evidence supports.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #223 posted 03/01/19 3:24am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


I have demonstrated your sources have edited out things like when they quoted the parts of the report that was anti the Venezuelan oppostion but edited out the reports of the racist and classist attacks on the poor communities by Maduro's security forces. All conspiracy theorists think they use evidence and facts - most like you only look for what they want to see.



Choose my sources very carefully. You should try it sometime. Actually at this stage if you even had a source it would be something. You are just repeating CIA and Trump talking points.

.


So the socialist collectives in Venezuela and Alfred de Zayas are CIA and Trump crony's?


You are twisting Alfred De Zayas words and the socialists in Venezuela.
Maduro is the president of the socialist party!!
Many those you are quoting are either in the actual government or still support them at the end of the day.
That reality bothers you.

You are mad because those who are critical about how we should treat and deal with Nazis in Venezuela will not abondon the current government at the end of the day and join you in protecting Nazis at all costs.
Even if you don’t agree with Nazis fully you have more sympathy for them than thier victims/target.
The same way you defended Australia against helping Saudi Arabia in Yemen.




.
[Edited 3/1/19 2:39am]

No. I am quoting them without edit unlike your western sources. None of the people I am quoting are in government.
.
Keep posting the hole is massive and the flip flopping desparate
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Reply #224 posted 03/01/19 3:29am

IanRG

deebee said:



IanRG said:




deebee said:



I'm asking, very politely, for you to substantiate a claim you have made - namely, that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." This is common practice in a debate. What else I have or haven't asked is neither here nor there (though, for the record, I have disagreed profoundly with Haus on other Venezuela threads). But here I'm asking you to substantiate a claim you have made. Once again, I'm keeping an open mind, but I would like to see evidence to support the assertion.



.


I am telling you politely that the Red Cross has stated that the recent doulbling of aid was accompanied with comments that this had to be negotiated with Maduro and that the Red Cross stated this is not enough. You say you have read the article but you missed that other NGOs reported increased scrutiny and limitation on what they are supplying - with no indication that they were supplying aid with strings.



Ian, we can go round and round the houses, but, ultimately, I would suggest you either support your claim with evidence, or swallow your pride and modify it, if it's not possible to do that. It's standard practice for the Red Cross to negotiate with governments and other parties to a conflict over access to the populations they serve - indeed, they would regard it as essential to the developing the trust their consent-based work depends on - so negotiation is nothing untoward that we can read anything into. It doesn't add up to the claim that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings."

Likewise, what is happening with NGOs does not help support your claim. You'll know, I trust, that the Red Cross is not an NGO, and that it has a recognised humanitarian mandate that NGOs do not have; and that it fiercely defends its neutrality in order to fulfil this mandate in a way that NGOs are not obliged to. Hence, it would be a more serious claim to make that a government was "limiting aid through the Red Cross" than common-or-garden, privately-managed NGOs.

Does your claim, perhaps, relate to NGOs, rather than the Red Cross, but you've misread or embellished the evidence and don't feel able now to back down? Or is there evidence for the original claim that you're going to present? Once again, I'm open to drawing any conclusions the evidence supports.


.
My understanding is consistent with the press comments by the Red Cross and NGOs. Perhaps you need to ask yourself why you want to see 2.8 million refugees and 10% malnutrition and the Red Cross seeing their latest agreement as insufficient differently.
[Edited 3/1/19 6:11am]
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Reply #225 posted 03/01/19 3:47am

hausofmoi7

avatar

Interview Alfred De Zaya.
Basically he said that sanctiobs are the cause of the crisis.
He pointd out if Sanctions are lifted it would solve the issue.
As someone in a country that is supporting sanctions on Venezuela and militarily assisting the Yemen genocide.
You need to focus your criticism where it matters.
Instead of deflecting like you did when you defended Australia in Yemen.
Here you bashing up on Chavistas to protect Venezuela’s upper classes and Australia’s elites and by extension your own self interest.


[Edited 3/1/19 3:52am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #226 posted 03/01/19 3:54am

hausofmoi7

avatar

What are the effects of the unilateral sanctions of Us and European Union for th the economy of the country and for the Venezuelan population?
https://www.google.com.au...detat/amp/

the economic war is asphyxiating the country, causing much suffering amongst the most vulnerable. As I wrote in my report to the Human Rights Coouncil, sanctions kill. The government has met increased difficulty in obtaining insulin, anti/malaria medicine, anti/retroviral drugs etc. The distribution chains have also been disrupted by the internal war being conducted by the opposition. Most of the economy is still in the private sector and there have been numerous instances of hoarding, whereby foods and medicines are not distributed to supermarkets and pharmacies, but stored and then released into the black market. To the extent that people have died of malnutrition of lack of dialysis and other medical services as a result of the sanctions, this raises issues of civil and criminal liability by the countries that impose the sanctions, knowing they will cause death. It is premeditated homicide. It is not just collateral damage
[Edited 3/1/19 3:56am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #227 posted 03/01/19 3:58am

hausofmoi7

avatar

Not only are opposition protesters killing random black people.
They are burning down food and medicine supply storage. (In addition to supporting hoarding supplies so it impacts the poorest people.)
The protesters are not affected by the crisis as much as those who actually still support the government.
Isn’t that amazing.

Government supporters are not reactionary.
Venezuela is a radical society so people actually understand what is happening and the cause of the current situation.




.
[Edited 3/1/19 4:06am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #228 posted 03/01/19 5:24am

nd33

nd33 said:

Page 136 of McCabe's new book, recounting a 2017 Oval Office meeting: "Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door."

https://mobile.twitter.co...6671015936


No one interested in this quote from the Pres?!
Case closed, as far as I’m concerned. No need to argue what the US govt interests in this are.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #229 posted 03/01/19 5:52am

hausofmoi7

avatar

The Southern Hemisphere is where all the resources are located.
It’s just how the temperature and climate shaped the world.
As a result capitalism, colonialism and white supremacy were created so people in Europe can control and own the resources.
It’s not even like Europe asked that resources be shared with them as they live in countries that don’t have any resources to offer.
That’s fair enough.
Instead they want it all for themselves.

Apparently Trump needs a new gold plated toilet so he can shit out all the Mac Donald’s burgers he eats?
That is what the Venezuelan coup is about.
Let’s be honest.
When it comes to Trump everyone knows when to back down.
You don’t want to piss him off and you know what will.
he even stated that all he cares about is Venezuela.
That is also the only subject his critics won’t dare touch because it’s the only thing he actually cares about.

your majesty Trump needs a new gold plated toilet.
Please do your best to obtain it for him.
Kill, crush and humiliate whoever you can to get it.




.
[Edited 3/1/19 5:58am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #230 posted 03/01/19 6:03am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Interview Alfred De Zaya. Basically he said that sanctiobs are the cause of the crisis. He pointd out if Sanctions are lifted it would solve the issue. As someone in a country that is supporting sanctions on Venezuela and militarily assisting the Yemen genocide. You need to focus your criticism where it matters. Instead of deflecting like you did when you defended Australia in Yemen. Here you bashing up on Chavistas to protect Venezuela’s upper classes and Australia’s elites and by extension your own self interest. [Edited 3/1/19 3:52am]

.

This is the problem when you base things on what you see in a youtube or an edited western news website. I was pointing out that you were critically wrong - Alfred de Zayas is not a CIA/Trump crony at all. I also pointed out what he said in his report to the Venezuelan government. I agreed long ago that the sanctions are a blunt instrument that inflicts more injury on the people they are supposed to be for.

.

You are lying again about Yemen. Australia is not assisting Saudi Arabia in the Yemen Genocide. This lie started with you lying with the false claim that Israel, Saudi Arabia and Iran do not export arms when they absolutely do. You tried to cover your lie with the accusation that Australia is increasing its miltary sales but you did no real research on what Australia makes: unlike Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Australia exports no missiles, tanks, artillery, fighter aircraft, helicopters or warships (other than coastal patrol ships for Pacific Islands). It makes some small arms and some munitions - its exports are vehicles, supporting equipmentand components. You expanded on your lie when a single warship exercising with refueling trials and like with a Saudi warship to pretend this was really an attack on Yemen. This is no deflection by me, I said the naval ship should not have done the exercise - As ever, it is just your lies upon lies.

.

I am not bashing the Chavista either. It really is simple: the Venezuelan security forces are not the Chavista. Try to learn the basic facts before you post. I am not protecting any elite - this is just your lie - go back and count how many times I have posted:

.

Real, actual Venezuelan socialists in Venzeula are saying Maduro forces are inflicting "repressive and systematic practices in poor sectors (extrajudicial executions, illegal raids, torture and ill-treatment, threats) in the last five years by the PNB and other security forces, as well as the high number of deaths occurring in just four days, shows that state security bodies are fixed in a pattern of class-based and racist actions, that has been consolidated since 2013. The poor areas are seen as occupied territories and populations which need containing, all in a context of a growing socio-economic and political crisis."

.

When I stand up for the poor in areas being attacked by Maduro's security forces and you cannot condemn this, it is you protecting the elite and I am condeming the people attacking the poor and disadvantaged. What self-interest are you protecting by being so morally conflicted that you cannot condemn these attacks on the poor?

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Reply #231 posted 03/01/19 6:08am

IanRG

nd33 said:

nd33 said:
Page 136 of McCabe's new book, recounting a 2017 Oval Office meeting: "Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door." https://mobile.twitter.co...6671015936
No one interested in this quote from the Pres?! Case closed, as far as I’m concerned. No need to argue what the US govt interests in this are.

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What is there to say? Everyone knows this is the US motivation. No one is pretending it is not. There is not argument: Trump, like so many presidents before him is interested in the US economy before people.

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The only reason the thread is still going is hausofmoi7 cannot condemn violence from his ideological side because he is morally conflicted to the point he always choosed politics over people. if there was one of our far right extremists here acting like hausofmoi7, I (and probably several others) would be confronting this evil as well.

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Reply #232 posted 03/01/19 6:13am

hausofmoi7

avatar

Sanctions are working.
They are doing exactly what they are designed to do.
Alfred De Zaya even said sanctions are “premeditated murder” and not collateral damage of some other goal.

They are designed to kill poor people.

I don’t think Alred De Zaya is CIA.
What he said is the opposite of what you are claiming here.
Which are CIA , John Bolton and Trump talking points.


But when Trump needs a new gold plated toilet.
Bring out the sanctions, military and character assignations.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #233 posted 03/01/19 6:17am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Like the time you lied about what I said and convienvetky claimed it was deleted when people asked you to prove it. (FYI the moderators probably have access to pre edited posts. So I’m super confident I can prove you lied intentionally. Also I’m confident no one else would claim that I wrote that or even have a screen shoot either.

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Keep pretending, you know you said you have soft spot and changed this to conflicted.

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There is no threat: you confirmed here that you said conflicted - Being morally conflicted to the extent you are unable to condemn the type of physical and economic violence perpetrated on Cuba's poorest of the poor is worse than just saying you have a soft spot.

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Your confidence is a lie - you know you siad, you know you changed it last year and what you changed it to is worse anyway.

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That hole you are digging is mighty deep.

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Reply #234 posted 03/01/19 6:17am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



nd33 said:


nd33 said:
Page 136 of McCabe's new book, recounting a 2017 Oval Office meeting: "Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door." https://mobile.twitter.co...6671015936

No one interested in this quote from the Pres?! Case closed, as far as I’m concerned. No need to argue what the US govt interests in this are.

.


What is there to say? Everyone knows this is the US motivation. No one is pretending it is not. There is not argument: Trump, like so many presidents before him is interested in the US economy before people.


.


The only reason the thread is still going is hausofmoi7 cannot condemn violence from his ideological side because he is morally conflicted to the point he always choosed politics over people. if there was one of our far right extremists here acting like hausofmoi7, I (and probably several others) would be confronting this evil as well.


I don’t oppose the violence you are making up.
You are lying.
And refuse to provide evidence because you know you are lying.
You always claim you can’t find evidence when you are pushed.

I’m evil?
You are the one defending Australia arming Saudi Arabia in Yemen.
You are true evil.
I can smell the Sulfur.

Providing evidence is proof you are not lying.
That scares you and you shut down that conversation because it will expose you.





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[Edited 3/1/19 6:22am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #235 posted 03/01/19 6:20am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

Sanctions are working. They are doing exactly what they are designed to do. Alfred De Zaya even said sanctions are “premeditated murder” and not collateral damage of some other goal. They are designed to kill poor people. I don’t think Alred De Zaya is CIA. What he said is the opposite of what you are claiming here. Which are CIA , John Bolton and Trump talking points. But when Trump needs a new gold plated toilet. Bring out the sanctions, military and character assignations.

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Obviously Alfred de Zayas is not from the CIA or Trump, but you lied here when you said I was quoting the CIA and people working for Trump. I have not quoted anything from these sources: just Amnesty International, Alfred de Zayas, Venezuelan socialists (not a single Venevuelan-Australian), the Red Cross and sources like this.

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Keep on posting - you are only digging deeper and deeper.

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Reply #236 posted 03/01/19 6:27am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


Sanctions are working. They are doing exactly what they are designed to do. Alfred De Zaya even said sanctions are “premeditated murder” and not collateral damage of some other goal. They are designed to kill poor people. I don’t think Alred De Zaya is CIA. What he said is the opposite of what you are claiming here. Which are CIA , John Bolton and Trump talking points. But when Trump needs a new gold plated toilet. Bring out the sanctions, military and character assignations.

.


Obviously Alfred de Zayas is not from the CIA or Trump, but you lied here when you said I was quoting the CIA and people working for Trump. I have not quoted anything from these sources: just Amnesty International, Alfred de Zayas, Venezuelan socialists (not a single Venevuelan-Australian), the Red Cross and sources like this.


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Keep on posting - you are only digging deeper and deeper.



You have proved to people you are liar.
You claim asking for evidence is “dismissive” of you.
you need evidence because you are a known pathological liar on this discussion board.


You lied on me and were called out in it.
So excuse me if I think you are full of shit like Trump on his gold plated toilet.




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[Edited 3/1/19 6:28am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #237 posted 03/01/19 6:28am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

What is there to say? Everyone knows this is the US motivation. No one is pretending it is not. There is not argument: Trump, like so many presidents before him is interested in the US economy before people.

.

The only reason the thread is still going is hausofmoi7 cannot condemn violence from his ideological side because he is morally conflicted to the point he always choosed politics over people. if there was one of our far right extremists here acting like hausofmoi7, I (and probably several others) would be confronting this evil as well.

I don’t oppose the violence you are making up. You are lying. And refuse to provide evidence because you know you are lying. You always claim you can’t find evidence when you are pushed. I’m evil? You are the one defending Australia arming Saudi Arabia in Yemen. You are true evil. I can smell the Sulfur. Providing evidence is proof you are not lying. That scares you. . [Edited 3/1/19 6:19am]

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Wrong again, you introduced and provided the proof of what I am saying. The quote is from the report by a Venezuelan socialist collective you referenced in your link to the Australian Green Left article - the only difference is I went to the source and you left it at the propanda edit. It is mind boggling stupid to say I am scared to provide proof when I am quoting a reference to an article you posted.

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What weaponary has Australia provided Saudi Arabia?

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I did not say you were evil, I said that the act of choosing politics over people is evil. It is the act that is evil not the person. Your inability to condemn violence if it impacts your ideology is evil, not you.

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Keep posting and digging down, down, down.

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Reply #238 posted 03/01/19 6:36am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

Obviously Alfred de Zayas is not from the CIA or Trump, but you lied here when you said I was quoting the CIA and people working for Trump. I have not quoted anything from these sources: just Amnesty International, Alfred de Zayas, Venezuelan socialists (not a single Venevuelan-Australian), the Red Cross and sources like this.

.

Keep on posting - you are only digging deeper and deeper.

You have proved to people you are liar. You claim asking for evidence is “dismissive” of you. you need evidence because you are a known pathological liar on this discussion board. You lied on me and were called out in it. So excuse me if I think you are full of shit like Trump on his gold plated toilet. . [Edited 3/1/19 6:28am]

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Wrong again:

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I have not proved I am a liar - I made a simple mistake by assuming a tread was locked and openly admitted to this error.

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It is absolutely true that when someone here asks for proof, they are seeking to dismiss what the other person is saying - if you don't want to dismiss it because you believe it, people here don't ask for any proof.

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You may want people to believe I am a pathological liar but I have not lied once. You only want what I have said to be a lie because otherwise you would have to face that you have admitted being morally conflicted and cannot condemn violence that is inspired by your ideology - you lie to put politics before people.

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Reply #239 posted 03/01/19 3:01pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

If we really cared about the people of Cuba, North Korea, Iran or Venezuela we would eliminate all sanctions. It’s all just political bullshit. We deal regularly with countries accused of far worse but we turn a blind eye because it suits us.
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