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Reply #180 posted 02/28/19 11:00am

deebee

avatar

IanRG said:

Firstly the violence is described as being as a result of Venzuelan attempts to bring in humanitarian foreign aid being stopped by Maduro. People are being denied required medical supplies etc. because Maduro is limiting aid - including Maduro limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings.

.

Where does this claim come from? From what I've read on the matter, the Red Cross has refused to take part. “We will not be participating in what is, for us, not humanitarian aid”, Colombia's Red Cross spokesman is quoted as saying in this article.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #181 posted 02/28/19 3:02pm

IanRG

2freaky4church1 said:

Maduro is only keeping out American aid, which is correct. Our aid is propaganda for a coup, so it is good that aid is not being let in. Russia and other countries are bringing actual aid. Max Blumenthal went to a Caracas supermarket. Full shelves, even greek yogurt. lol

.

As I said above, Aid with strings is bad. But no, even the Red Cross is having to negotiate to get the much needed aid in. There are more pictures of empty shelves than full ones. There are more refugees fleeing Venzuela today then Venzuela used to bring in. Also read the above: Alfred de Zayas, the former UN analyst who has been so vocally against the santions, has advised the Venzuelan government that the cause of shortages and hyperinflation - the price controls leading to theft, smuggling and government corruption that means that so often the medical supplies and food does not make it to the shelves and can only be bought at massively inflated prices must stop.

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Reply #182 posted 02/28/19 3:28pm

IanRG

deebee said:

IanRG said:

Firstly the violence is described as being as a result of Venzuelan attempts to bring in humanitarian foreign aid being stopped by Maduro. People are being denied required medical supplies etc. because Maduro is limiting aid - including Maduro limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings.

.

Where does this claim come from? From what I've read on the matter, the Red Cross has refused to take part. “We will not be participating in what is, for us, not humanitarian aid”, Colombia's Red Cross spokesman is quoted as saying in this article.

.

Coming into a conversation late in its progress without reading what has been discussed before means you may miss previous points and they then need to be rehashed just for your benefit.

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Yes, the Red Cross and other aid organisations have refused to work with organisations (such as the US government) to provide aid with strings - This is a good, standard and normal process, one that I have been involved with with aid within Australia. You shoud read the article jawnnn posted above about how the Red Cross etc is advising against participating in US aid with strings because it also discusses how the Red Cross is having to negotiate with Maduro and, whilst he is letting some more aid in, it is pittance compared to what is needed: 10% of the population now malnourished due to lack of food and medical supplies plus all the refugees leaving means the overall population has been declining.

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Refusing aid with strings does not mean the aid is not needed. A point in the youtube is that there is violence in Venezuela because the aid is needed and the two leaders and their followers are arguing how to get the aid in. Both Maduro and Guaido (together with the US, Russia etc.) are using people's lives as political pawns.

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Reply #183 posted 02/28/19 5:49pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


Why Venezuela’s chavistas are loyal to the revolution. class and race at the centre of support for the socialist party of Venezuela. [Edited 2/27/19 19:16pm]

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Hooray, you finally found something from 2019!!!!!


.


Did you read the description of it? It says


.



Violence has broken out in Venezuela as opposition groups, led by Juan Guaido, attempt to bring in foreign aid against the will of President Nicolas Maduro.


.


Despite international support for Guaido, a fiercely loyal minority of Venezuelans known as Chavistas are determined to keep Maduro in power -- and the U.S. out. Special correspondent Nadja Drost and videographer Bruno Federico report.



.


This shows two key things you have been denying:


.


Firstly the violence is described as being as a result of Venzuelan attempts to bring in humanitarian foreign aid being stopped by Maduro. People are being denied required medical supplies etc. because Maduro is limiting aid - including Maduro limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings.


.


Secondly, you have been arguing, Trump style, that the Chavistas are the majority. Clearly not.


.


This still leaves you unable to see past your conflicted morality to condemn the evil done by political parties you support - even to the point of selling out the poor and marginalised in Venezuela and Cuba and ignoring Amnesty International, real socialists actually working for those Maduro's security forces are attacking etc.


.


Trump's fiercely loyal minority of MAGA cap wearers is not a good argument for his racism, it is not a good argument for Maduro's either: You are in solidarity with the people the Venezuelan socialist collectives accuse of "repressive and systematic practices in poor sectors (extrajudicial executions, illegal raids, torture and ill-treatment, threats) in the last five years by the PNB and other security forces, as well as the high number of deaths occurring in just four days, shows that state security bodies are fixed in a pattern of class-based and racist actions, that has been consolidated since 2013. The poor areas are seen as occupied territories and populations which need containing, all in a context of a growing socio-economic and political crisis.


.


Maduro won the election so his support is the majority of the population.

Resistance and predatory behaviour are worlds apart.
But your need to have a centrist position leaves you saying ridiculous things like comparing Trump to Maduro.
Or comparing the indegenious and black resistance movement of Venezuela’s bolivarian revolution to Trumps white supremacy or the racism of western capitalism.

For over 50% in Venezuela who voted for Maduro.
They did so in the same way liberals and even some progressives backed behind Hillary Clinton in the west.
The alternative is not an option.


Although I’m not comparing Maduro to Clinton or Trump.
Anything you can say about Maduro pales in comparison to Trump or Clinton.
Different leagues.


The attacks on Venezuela from the left reminded me of this quote.
It sums up why identity politics matter.
We have Clinton supporters waving thier finger in the face of Chavistas.
Clinton supporters comparing MAGA Nazis to black socialists/Marxists.
No, just stop Ian they are not the same thing



Your centrism is nothing but damage control for the right wing.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice,,,- MLK




.
[Edited 2/28/19 19:36pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #184 posted 02/28/19 6:29pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

Socialism is only ok when it benifits white people.
It’s why progressives praise Norway and Frances socialist programs but condemn Venezuela’s.
The Western and European reformist capitalism of Norway and France is only possible if you deny Venezuelans social services and privatise thier resources to inflate your stock market value.


Even in Australia where they have universal health care.
The life expectancy for white Australians increased by 20 years whilst indegenious Australian life expectancy did not improve because funding for building social services and infrastructure is provided to councils or municipalities with high number of white middle class Australians.
Across the the board funding and resources are poured into areas with large amounts of white people.

Which is why we praise Norway but condemn Venezuela.
Socialism for black and brown people is problematic because western societies can only function by oppressing socialism in countries that have resources you need.


President Jacques Chirac said:"Without Africa, France will slide down into the rank of a third [world] power”

We know why centrists are attacking Venezuela.
Venezuela’s socialism presents a problem for your capitalist reformist societies.






.
[Edited 2/28/19 18:41pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #185 posted 02/28/19 7:30pm

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


Why Venezuela’s chavistas are loyal to the revolution. class and race at the centre of support for the socialist party of Venezuela. [Edited 2/27/19 19:16pm]

.


Hooray, you finally found something from 2019!!!!!


.


Did you read the description of it? It says


.



Violence has broken out in Venezuela as opposition groups, led by Juan Guaido, attempt to bring in foreign aid against the will of President Nicolas Maduro.


.


Despite international support for Guaido, a fiercely loyal minority of Venezuelans known as Chavistas are determined to keep Maduro in power -- and the U.S. out. Special correspondent Nadja Drost and videographer Bruno Federico report.



.


This shows two key things you have been denying:


.


Firstly the violence is described as being as a result of Venzuelan attempts to bring in humanitarian foreign aid being stopped by Maduro. People are being denied required medical supplies etc. because Maduro is limiting aid - including Maduro limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings.


.


Secondly, you have been arguing, Trump style, that the Chavistas are the majority. Clearly not.


.


This still leaves you unable to see past your conflicted morality to condemn the evil done by political parties you support - even to the point of selling out the poor and marginalised in Venezuela and Cuba and ignoring Amnesty International, real socialists actually working for those Maduro's security forces are attacking etc.


.


Trump's fiercely loyal minority of MAGA cap wearers is not a good argument for his racism, it is not a good argument for Maduro's either: You are in solidarity with the people the Venezuelan socialist collectives accuse of "repressive and systematic practices in poor sectors (extrajudicial executions, illegal raids, torture and ill-treatment, threats) in the last five years by the PNB and other security forces, as well as the high number of deaths occurring in just four days, shows that state security bodies are fixed in a pattern of class-based and racist actions, that has been consolidated since 2013. The poor areas are seen as occupied territories and populations which need containing, all in a context of a growing socio-economic and political crisis.


.


Maduro won the election so his support is the majority of the population.

Resistance and predatory behaviour are worlds apart.
But your need to have a centrist position leaves you saying ridiculous things like comparing Trump to Maduro.
Or comparing the indegenious and black resistance movement of Venezuela’s bolivarian revolution to Trumps white supremacy or the racism of western capitalism.

For over 50% in Venezuela who voted for Maduro.
They did so in the same way white progressives all backed behind Hillary Clinton in the west.
The alternative is not an option.

Although I’m not comparing Maduro to Clinton or Trump.
Voting for Maduro is far superior to Trump or Clinton by far.
Anything you can say about Maduro pales in comparison to Trump or Clinton.

The attacks on Venezuela from the left reminded me of this quote.
It sums up why identity politics matter.
We have Clinton supporters waving thier finger in the face of Chavistas.
Clinton supporters comparing MAGA Nazis to black socialists/Marxists.
No, just stop Ian they are not the same thing



Your centrism is nothing but damage control for the right wing.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice,,,- MLK




.
[Edited 2/28/19 18:31pm]

.
I am just as opposed to far right extremists as I am opposed to you. I will never sellout people for politics the way you do. Stopping evil means never accepting the unacceptable just because it favours your side. It is people like you that enable people like Maduro to pervert the Chavez legacy or elect people like Trump and Putin. Hitler was popularly elected after imprisoning oppopents and banning opposition also. The Red Cross and MSF spend just as much time correcting for the evils of the far left as the evils of the far right. Ultimately it always comes done to people like Maduro using security forces to subjugate the poor and disadvantaged.
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Reply #186 posted 02/28/19 8:07pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:

hausofmoi7 said:





.
[Edited 2/28/19 18:31pm]

.
I am just as opposed to far right extremists as I am opposed to you. I will never sellout people for politics the way you do. Stopping evil means never accepting the unacceptable just because it favours your side. It is people like you that enable people like Maduro to pervert the Chavez legacy or elect people like Trump and Putin. Hitler was popularly elected after imprisoning oppopents and banning opposition also. The Red Cross and MSF spend just as much time correcting for the evils of the far left as the evils of the far right. Ultimately it always comes done to people like Maduro using security forces to subjugate the poor and disadvantaged.


The poor and disadvantage support Maduro.
It’s the white upper classes who oppose Maduro.



You can oppose Maduro but you need to own the uncomfortable reality of what you are supporting. You are selling out poor Venezuelans and worse.
You called the bolivarian revolution and Chavistas as bad as Nazis.
You’re centrism is unequivocally racist.
Nazis and anti-racists are not the same.
You obviously are someone not affected by racism which is why you make offensive comments.
Black Marxism:liberation is a political response in resistance to white supremacy of Venezuela.
So they can not be the same.

That was a really controversial and racist thing you said Ian.
But Australia is ripe with racism across the board so I’m not surprised at the utter racism you directed towards Chavistas and coloured people in Venezuela in defence of your western elites and your stock portfolio.





.
[Edited 2/28/19 20:53pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #187 posted 02/28/19 8:19pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:

hausofmoi7 said:





.
[Edited 2/28/19 18:31pm]

.
I am just as opposed to far right extremists as I am opposed to you. I will never sellout people for politics the way you do. Stopping evil means never accepting the unacceptable just because it favours your side. It is people like you that enable people like Maduro to pervert the Chavez legacy or elect people like Trump and Putin. Hitler was popularly elected after imprisoning oppopents and banning opposition also. The Red Cross and MSF spend just as much time correcting for the evils of the far left as the evils of the far right. Ultimately it always comes done to people like Maduro using security forces to subjugate the poor and disadvantaged.

You called resistance to racism and oppression just as bad as actual oppression and racism.
A person who fends off a rapist is not as bad as an actual rapist.
Your centrism is messy, offensive and immoral.
You are making a centrist position just to defend the right wing by claiming those who oppose them are just as bad.
But if you are not directly affected by something being a centrist is easy.
You are making excuses for inexcusable by claiming “bad people on both sides”

Get off your privilege white horse.

You are selling out poor Venezuelans because it conflicts with your interests.
Be honest.
Venezuelan resources makes a huge part of your stock and share portfolio.
Venezuela’s socialist initiatives poses a problem to your white middle class existence in the west.



.
[Edited 2/28/19 20:55pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #188 posted 02/28/19 9:06pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

Europe and North America are broke and have been for hundreds of years.
Without Capitalism and racism on some level Europe, America and Australia would be screwed.
Suppressing Venezuela’s revolution is necessary to keep your capitalists societies functioning.
If Venezuela or Africa have socialism for thier people then the west is screwed.
Scandinavian or Canadaian capaitalism is only possible through the suppression of socialism in Venezuela and Africa.
If black and brown people have socialism in Africa and Latin America then western capitalism can’t operate or function.

You probably need a global socialist system.
Because when we praise places like Scandinavia we don’t acknowledge that they only function by oppressing places like Africa and Venezuela by not allowing them to distribute wealth from sale of resources to thier own people.






[Edited 2/28/19 21:36pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #189 posted 02/28/19 10:19pm

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:


.
I am just as opposed to far right extremists as I am opposed to you. I will never sellout people for politics the way you do. Stopping evil means never accepting the unacceptable just because it favours your side. It is people like you that enable people like Maduro to pervert the Chavez legacy or elect people like Trump and Putin. Hitler was popularly elected after imprisoning oppopents and banning opposition also. The Red Cross and MSF spend just as much time correcting for the evils of the far left as the evils of the far right. Ultimately it always comes done to people like Maduro using security forces to subjugate the poor and disadvantaged.

You called resistance to racism and oppression just as bad as actual oppression and racism.
A person who fends off a rapist is not as bad as an actual rapist.
Your centrism is messy, offensive and immoral.
You are making a centrist position just to defend the right wing by claiming those who oppose them are just as bad.
But if you are not directly affected by something being a centrist is easy.
You are making excuses for inexcusable by claiming “bad people on both sides”

Get off your privilege white horse.

You are selling out poor Venezuelans because it conflicts with your interests.
Be honest.
Venezuelan resources makes a huge part of your stock and share portfolio.
Venezuela’s socialist initiatives poses a problem to your white middle class existence in the west.



.
[Edited 2/28/19 20:55pm]

.
Why must you lie like this everytime you sell out the poor and disadvantaged? Repeatedly I have posted what actual real socialists actuallly working for the poor and disadvantaged in Venzuela today are saying about Maduros security forces and their racist and classist violence against the poor and disadvantaged. Yet all you do is flip flop between old articles and false accusations. Your analogy is wrong- A rapist is a rapist regardless of their politics. A murder in a riot is a murder whether they support Maduro or anyone else.
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When people in Venzeula are saying Maduro forces are inflicting "repressive and systematic practices in poor sectors (extrajudicial executions, illegal raids, torture and ill-treatment, threats) in the last five years by the PNB and other security forces, as well as the high number of deaths occurring in just four days, shows that state security bodies are fixed in a pattern of class-based and racist actions, that has been consolidated since 2013. The poor areas are seen as occupied territories and populations which need containing, all in a context of a growing socio-economic and political crisi then it is you who is selling out the poor of Venezuela. Lying to pass the blame only makes your constant moral conflicts so you never criticise those you have a soft spot for even more disgusting.
.
You are the problem just as the far right is the problem.
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Reply #190 posted 02/28/19 10:29pm

IanRG

Duplicate. I am in Myanmar seeking to help them through their troubles so communications can difficult. At lrast I am not just sitting back talking to people from Venezuela in Australia and posting old far left articles to support violence
[Edited 2/28/19 23:34pm]
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Reply #191 posted 02/28/19 10:53pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:

Duplicate. I am in Myanmar serking to help them through their troubles so cpmmunications csn dufgicult. At lrast I am not just sitting back talking to people from Venezuela in Australia and postong oldbfar left articles to support violence
[Edited 2/28/19 22:34pm]



I’m not supporting violence.
The government supporters are not rioting.
It’s your side the Nazis that are killing people which is resulting in clashes.

Reuters tried to play down the racial killings by claiming “frustrated civilians are killing thieves”
That’s what they said to ignore the racial motives for the killings.

It’s just like the time Occupy Wall Street protestors went around killing homeless people in frustration.
Oh wait, that didn’t happen.

The violent racist protesters are of a higher social class than those who support the government.
Clearly as they are killing people based on race or social status. I.E killing thevies.
Whilst they support sanctions which is creating poverty.
Poverty that these protesters or yourself are not subjected to.



.
[Edited 2/28/19 23:04pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #192 posted 02/28/19 11:33pm

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:
Duplicate. I am in Myanmar serking to help them through their troubles so cpmmunications csn dufgicult. At lrast I am not just sitting back talking to people from Venezuela in Australia and postong oldbfar left articles to support violence [Edited 2/28/19 22:34pm]
I’m not supporting violence. The government supporters are not rioting. It’s your side the Nazis that are killing people which is resulting in clashes. Reuters tried to play down the racial killings by claiming “frustrated civilians are killing thieves” That’s what they said to ignore the racial motives for the killings. It’s just like the time Occupy Wall Street protestors went around killing homeless people in frustration. Oh wait, that didn’t happen. The violent racist protesters are of a higher social class than those who support the government. Clearly as they are killing people based on race or social status. I.E killing thevies. Whilst they support sanctions which is creating poverty. Poverty that these protesters or yourself are not subjected to. . [Edited 2/28/19 23:04pm]

.

And round you go one more time. Only a few posts ago I was a centerist, now I'm a nazi!!!

.

YOU ARE SUPPORTING VIOLENCE BY YOUR INABILITY TO CONDEMN IT.

.

When Maduro's security forces are accused of systematic repression and violence against the poor and disadvantaged in a pattern of classist and racist actions by Venezuelan socialist collectives who are actually working with the poor and disadvantaged in Venezuela and you cannot condemn this you are selling out to enable their violence based on your self-confessed moral conflicts yet again. When I condemn all people from the far left and the far right and inbetween then there is no "my side", just as the Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières does not choose sides - except the side of humanity.

.

All your dancing and going in circles is so you can continue to support violence by your constant refusal to condemn it - A rapist is a rapist regardless of their political bias, a person who enables the rapist is an enabler regardless of their political bias.

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Reply #193 posted 02/28/19 11:42pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:

Duplicate. I am in Myanmar serking to help them through their troubles so cpmmunications csn dufgicult. At lrast I am not just sitting back talking to people from Venezuela in Australia and postong oldbfar left articles to support violence
[Edited 2/28/19 22:34pm]


Just because you have money for fancy holidays to post pictures of poor people on Instagram doesn’t mean you have more to offer or do more than others.

Most people I know who do actual social and community work don’t advertise it.
It’s cheesy and tacky.
And quite frankly it’s a front for the racist and destructive policies you support politically.
The same destructive policies which allows for you the privilege of travelling and posting Instagram pictures of poor people around the world.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #194 posted 02/28/19 11:58pm

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:
Duplicate. I am in Myanmar serking to help them through their troubles so cpmmunications csn dufgicult. At lrast I am not just sitting back talking to people from Venezuela in Australia and postong oldbfar left articles to support violence [Edited 2/28/19 22:34pm]
Just because you have money for fancy holidays to post pictures of poor people on Instagram doesn’t mean you have more to offer or do more than others. Most people I know who do actual social and community work don’t advertise it. It’s cheesy and tacky. And quite frankly it’s a front for the racist and destructive policies you support politically. The same destructive policies which allows for you the privilege of travelling and posting Instagram pictures of poor people around the world.

.

I don't use Instragram and I have not said what I doing, who I am helping or how. I do not post poverty porn.

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You are now just getting personal with your gross and wrong assumptions because you really a piece of work.

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To you if I do nothing, I am racist. If I talk about anything but what you allow me talk about, I am racist. If I support the Venezuelan socialists actually working in Venezuela, I am racist. If I stand up against the physical and economic violence against Afro-Cubans, I am racist. If I work to seek to enable the poor and disadvantaged in Myanmar, I am racist and just on a fancy holiday. All this bullshit just so you don't have to condemn how the poorest of the poor in Cuba, the Afro-Cubans, are treated by the Cuban government and general populous and how the actions of Maduro are severely impacting on the lives of the poorest of the poor in Venezuela.

.

Keep on going, every time you post you dig a deeper hole, every cycle your argument gets more and more convuluted.

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Reply #195 posted 03/01/19 12:02am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:
Duplicate. I am in Myanmar serking to help them through their troubles so cpmmunications csn dufgicult. At lrast I am not just sitting back talking to people from Venezuela in Australia and postong oldbfar left articles to support violence [Edited 2/28/19 22:34pm]

I’m not supporting violence. The government supporters are not rioting. It’s your side the Nazis that are killing people which is resulting in clashes. Reuters tried to play down the racial killings by claiming “frustrated civilians are killing thieves” That’s what they said to ignore the racial motives for the killings. It’s just like the time Occupy Wall Street protestors went around killing homeless people in frustration. Oh wait, that didn’t happen. The violent racist protesters are of a higher social class than those who support the government. Clearly as they are killing people based on race or social status. I.E killing thevies. Whilst they support sanctions which is creating poverty. Poverty that these protesters or yourself are not subjected to. . [Edited 2/28/19 23:04pm]

.


And round you go one more time. Only a few posts ago I was a centerist, now I'm a nazi!!!


.


YOU ARE SUPPORTING VIOLENCE BY YOUR INABILITY TO CONDEMN IT.


.


When Maduro's security forces are accused of systematic repression and violence against the poor and disadvantaged in a pattern of classist and racist actions by Venezuelan socialist collectives who are actually working with the poor and disadvantaged in Venezuela and you cannot condemn this you are selling out to enable their violence based on your self-confessed moral conflicts yet again. When I condemn all people from the far left and the far right and inbetween then there is no "my side", just as the Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières does not choose sides - except the side of humanity.


.


All your dancing and going in circles is so you can continue to support violence by your constant refusal to condemn it - A rapist is a rapist regardless of their political bias, a person who enables the rapist is an enabler regardless of their political bias.


If someone fights back against a rapist.
I wouldn’t be mad.

You on the other hand would claim we must condemn “violence of both sides”.

Also in this situation the government supporters are not even fighting.
Those attacking and killing government supporters are clashing with state forces as one would expect in a situation where civilians are killing other civilians to achieve thier political goals.
It’s called terrorism.

A racist is also racist regardless of thier political positions.
Your support for charity also doesn’t give you an excuse or cover to be a racist.
Which is ironic considering charities are using the situation in Venezuela to push thier neo liberal political agenda which creates the environment so charities can flourish and operate.



If Britain would just give Venezuela the money they earned from oil sales there would be no need for Britain and U.S to offer a fraction of that amount in charity.




Z
[Edited 3/1/19 0:22am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #196 posted 03/01/19 12:17am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

And round you go one more time. Only a few posts ago I was a centerist, now I'm a nazi!!!

.

YOU ARE SUPPORTING VIOLENCE BY YOUR INABILITY TO CONDEMN IT.

.

When Maduro's security forces are accused of systematic repression and violence against the poor and disadvantaged in a pattern of classist and racist actions by Venezuelan socialist collectives who are actually working with the poor and disadvantaged in Venezuela and you cannot condemn this you are selling out to enable their violence based on your self-confessed moral conflicts yet again. When I condemn all people from the far left and the far right and inbetween then there is no "my side", just as the Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières does not choose sides - except the side of humanity.

.

All your dancing and going in circles is so you can continue to support violence by your constant refusal to condemn it - A rapist is a rapist regardless of their political bias, a person who enables the rapist is an enabler regardless of their political bias.

If someone fights back against a rapist. I wouldn’t be mad. You on the other hand would claim we must condemn “violence of both sides”. Also in this situation the government supporters are not even fighting. Those attacking and killing government supporters are clashing with state forces as one would expect in a situation where civilians are killing other civilians to achieve thier political goals. It’s called terrorism. A racist is also racist regardless of thier political positions. Your support for charity also doesn’t give you an excuse or cover to be a racist. Which is ironic considering charities are using the situation in Venezuela to push thier neo liberal political agenda which creates the environment so charity can be big business.

.

When I condemn the murders by the supporters and forces of Maduro, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.

.

When I condemn the violence against the poor in Cuba, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.

.

When a person defends themselves from a rapist, as a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I stand with the defender - YOU ARE NOT A DEFENDER, YOU ARE AN ENABLER.

.

You are ignoring what actual real Venezuela socialists in Venezuela are saying to listen exclusively to the most obsessed supporters of Maduro alone - the equivalents of Trump's MAGA-hatters. In this you are excusing some of the rapists because there are other rapists. It is not about considering the victim as being as bad as the perpetrator - that is the lie you tell yourself, knowing full well it is a lie.

.

In regards to charities, you are making up assumptions and gross generalisations about motives just to fall back to all people who point out your self-confessed moral conflicts that mean you cannot condemn violence if it comes from people and governments you have a soft spot for. I don't work for a big business charity.

[Edited 3/1/19 0:20am]

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Reply #197 posted 03/01/19 12:28am

hausofmoi7

avatar

You are lying about Chavistas and Maduro supporters that’s why I won’t stand with you.
Stop lying and enabling this mess.
Chavistas are not “super predators”
Chill out Ian with that racist centrist mess you are spreading.


You have to make Chavistas look bad or like super predators to make yourself look resonable and gain support for your centrist white suprmacist ideology.


Black marxists and MAGA white supremacist are not the same.
You and MAGA however are very similar.
You both are gunning for Chavista and Maduro supporters because you both will profit from the destruction of Chavismo
You all stick together at the end of the day.

You claiming that Venezuela’s opposition is just as bad as the socialist government is proof of this.
False equivalency to make Nazis look good.
No I won’t stand with you and your Nazis.
Fuck them.




.
[Edited 3/1/19 0:43am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #198 posted 03/01/19 1:03am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


And round you go one more time. Only a few posts ago I was a centerist, now I'm a nazi!!!


.


YOU ARE SUPPORTING VIOLENCE BY YOUR INABILITY TO CONDEMN IT.


.


When Maduro's security forces are accused of systematic repression and violence against the poor and disadvantaged in a pattern of classist and racist actions by Venezuelan socialist collectives who are actually working with the poor and disadvantaged in Venezuela and you cannot condemn this you are selling out to enable their violence based on your self-confessed moral conflicts yet again. When I condemn all people from the far left and the far right and inbetween then there is no "my side", just as the Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières does not choose sides - except the side of humanity.


.


All your dancing and going in circles is so you can continue to support violence by your constant refusal to condemn it - A rapist is a rapist regardless of their political bias, a person who enables the rapist is an enabler regardless of their political bias.



If someone fights back against a rapist. I wouldn’t be mad. You on the other hand would claim we must condemn “violence of both sides”. Also in this situation the government supporters are not even fighting. Those attacking and killing government supporters are clashing with state forces as one would expect in a situation where civilians are killing other civilians to achieve thier political goals. It’s called terrorism. A racist is also racist regardless of thier political positions. Your support for charity also doesn’t give you an excuse or cover to be a racist. Which is ironic considering charities are using the situation in Venezuela to push thier neo liberal political agenda which creates the environment so charity can be big business.

.


When I condemn the murders by the supporters and forces of Maduro, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.


.


When I condemn the violence against the poor in Cuba, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.


.


When a person defends themselves from a rapist, as a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I stand with the defender - YOU ARE NOT A DEFENDER, YOU ARE AN ENABLER.


.


You are ignoring what actual real Venezuela socialists in Venezuela are saying to listen exclusively to the most obsessed supporters of Maduro alone - the equivalents of Trump's MAGA-hatters. In this you are excusing some of the rapists because there are other rapists. It is not about considering the victim as being as bad as the perpetrator - that is the lie you tell yourself, knowing full well it is a lie.


.


In regards to charities, you are making up assumptions and gross generalisations about motives just to fall back to all people who point out your self-confessed moral conflicts that mean you cannot condemn violence if it comes from people and governments you have a soft spot for. I don't work for a big business charity.

[Edited 3/1/19 0:20am]



Charity is marketing.
Actual justice is a threat because charities would be out of business.
White mans burden is a powerful drug and one heck of multi billion dollar industry.
Justice is not as exciting as charity.
People love having power over others so thats why charity is more popular than social justice.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #199 posted 03/01/19 1:05am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

You are lying about Chavistas and Maduro supporters that’s why I won’t stand with you. Stop lying and enabling this mess. Chavistas are not “super predators” Chill out Ian with that racist centrist mess you are spreading. You have to make Chavistas look bad or like super predators to make yourself look resonable and gain support for your centrist white suprmacist ideology. Black marxists and MAGA white supremacist are not the same. You and MAGA however are very similar. You both are gunning for Chavista and Maduro supporters because you both profit from the destruction of Chavismo. You all stick together at the end of the day. . [Edited 3/1/19 0:37am]

.

No lies from me.

.

My source is real, actual Venezuelan socialists working in Venezuela with the poor and disadvantaged. They are condemning the violence by both sides. Yours? You already confessed in this thread that it is just a single Venezuelan living in Australia and some mostly old western far left articles and youtubes (and you accuse me of western neo liberal poverty porn!)

.

You have to lie to quote me saying "super predators". Look back, I never said that term.

.

You have to lie to make me a centrist. Extremist always want to put people in boxes. Beyond the extremes there is great variety and diversity in views and politics.

.

You have to lie to pretend non-extremists are just followers of white supremacist ideologies.

.

You have to lie to make up that somehow I am personally being prevented from profiting out of Venezuela by Maduro.

.

You have to lie by sometimes making out I am just gunning for Maduro and his supporters and not for the other side. You know I have condemned both sides for their violence against the poorest of poor in Venezuela. I have condemned the sanctions and aid with strings.

.

You have lied that this is about white people all sticking together.

.

All because you are morally conflicted and excuse violence - you confessed to this deplorable state and even reposted this confession in this thread. There is no difference between a MAGA-hatter and a far left extremist, they both excuse the inexcusable and argue that their side is perfect or only doing necessary evil because the other extremists are worse.

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Reply #200 posted 03/01/19 1:12am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

When I condemn the murders by the supporters and forces of Maduro, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.

.

When I condemn the violence against the poor in Cuba, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.

.

When a person defends themselves from a rapist, as a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I stand with the defender - YOU ARE NOT A DEFENDER, YOU ARE AN ENABLER.

.

You are ignoring what actual real Venezuela socialists in Venezuela are saying to listen exclusively to the most obsessed supporters of Maduro alone - the equivalents of Trump's MAGA-hatters. In this you are excusing some of the rapists because there are other rapists. It is not about considering the victim as being as bad as the perpetrator - that is the lie you tell yourself, knowing full well it is a lie.

.

In regards to charities, you are making up assumptions and gross generalisations about motives just to fall back to all people who point out your self-confessed moral conflicts that mean you cannot condemn violence if it comes from people and governments you have a soft spot for. I don't work for a big business charity.

[Edited 3/1/19 0:20am]

Charity is marketing. Actual justice is a threat because charities would be out of business. White mans burden is a powerful drug and one heck of multi billion dollar industry. Justice is not as exciting as charity. People love having power over others so thats why charity is more popular than social justice.

.

That is a sick view. It assumes charity and social justice are mutually exclusive when they are often inter-related and complementary.

.

As I said, I don't work for a big business charity.

.

You are now just posting anything to express an opposite view because you are morally conflcted and cannot condemn violence if it comes from within your extremist ideology.

.

Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.

[Edited 3/1/19 1:13am]

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Reply #201 posted 03/01/19 1:16am

deebee

avatar

IanRG said:

deebee said:

Where does this claim come from? From what I've read on the matter, the Red Cross has refused to take part. “We will not be participating in what is, for us, not humanitarian aid”, Colombia's Red Cross spokesman is quoted as saying in this article.

.

Coming into a conversation late in its progress without reading what has been discussed before means you may miss previous points and they then need to be rehashed just for your benefit.

.

Yes, the Red Cross and other aid organisations have refused to work with organisations (such as the US government) to provide aid with strings - This is a good, standard and normal process, one that I have been involved with with aid within Australia. You shoud read the article jawnnn posted above about how the Red Cross etc is advising against participating in US aid with strings because it also discusses how the Red Cross is having to negotiate with Maduro and, whilst he is letting some more aid in, it is pittance compared to what is needed: 10% of the population now malnourished due to lack of food and medical supplies plus all the refugees leaving means the overall population has been declining.

.

Refusing aid with strings does not mean the aid is not needed. A point in the youtube is that there is violence in Venezuela because the aid is needed and the two leaders and their followers are arguing how to get the aid in. Both Maduro and Guaido (together with the US, Russia etc.) are using people's lives as political pawns.

Thanks for the advice. Now, back to my question. You claimed that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." I'm trying to ascertain the basis of that claim, and happy to read whatever material you feel supports it.

Jawnnn has posted an NPR article. From my reading, what it says about ICRC is: "Humanitarian operations are supposed to be neutral. That's why the International Committee of the Red Cross, United Nations agencies and other relief organizations have refused to collaborate with the U.S. and its allies in the Venezuelan opposition who are trying to force President Nicolás Maduro from power."

So, I'm still none the wiser about the basis of your claim. The reply above pivots into talking about suffering within the population, which one might well argue that aid could play a part in alleviating. But this still doesn't add up to supporting the claim that Maduro is limiting aid through the Red Cross.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #202 posted 03/01/19 1:20am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


When I condemn the murders by the supporters and forces of Maduro, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.


.


When I condemn the violence against the poor in Cuba, then you should stand with me but you are a morally conflicted sellout.


.


When a person defends themselves from a rapist, as a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I stand with the defender - YOU ARE NOT A DEFENDER, YOU ARE AN ENABLER.


.


You are ignoring what actual real Venezuela socialists in Venezuela are saying to listen exclusively to the most obsessed supporters of Maduro alone - the equivalents of Trump's MAGA-hatters. In this you are excusing some of the rapists because there are other rapists. It is not about considering the victim as being as bad as the perpetrator - that is the lie you tell yourself, knowing full well it is a lie.


.


In regards to charities, you are making up assumptions and gross generalisations about motives just to fall back to all people who point out your self-confessed moral conflicts that mean you cannot condemn violence if it comes from people and governments you have a soft spot for. I don't work for a big business charity.


[Edited 3/1/19 0:20am]



Charity is marketing. Actual justice is a threat because charities would be out of business. White mans burden is a powerful drug and one heck of multi billion dollar industry. Justice is not as exciting as charity. People love having power over others so thats why charity is more popular than social justice.

.


That is a sick view. It assumes charity and social justice are mutually exclusive when they are often inter-related and complementary.


.


As I said, I don't work for a big business charity.


.


You are now just posting anything to express an opposite view because you are morally conflcted and cannot condemn violence if it comes from within your extremist ideology.


.


Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.

[Edited 3/1/19 1:13am]


The Hillary Clinton Foundation is perhaps the best embodiment of charity and politics.
The Clinton foundation can only make money if they promote neo-liberal policies that create poverty or destruction through war.
This is how Hillary Clinton makes money as do other charities.

I actually do support charities.
I just don’t think it should be promoted as the answer.
As I pointed out like in the case of Hillary Clinton.
She supports policies that will boost funding to her charity.
She doesn’t support policies that will put her foundation out of business
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #203 posted 03/01/19 1:22am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

You are lying about Chavistas and Maduro supporters that’s why I won’t stand with you. Stop lying and enabling this mess. Chavistas are not “super predators” Chill out Ian with that racist centrist mess you are spreading. You have to make Chavistas look bad or like super predators to make yourself look resonable and gain support for your centrist white suprmacist ideology. Black marxists and MAGA white supremacist are not the same. You and MAGA however are very similar. You both are gunning for Chavista and Maduro supporters because you both will profit from the destruction of Chavismo You all stick together at the end of the day. You claiming that Venezuela’s opposition is just as bad as the socialist government is proof of this. False equivalency to make Nazis look good. No I won’t stand with you and your Nazis. Fuck them. . [Edited 3/1/19 0:43am]

.

Normally you remove your more offensive comments in your edits. This is not a false equivalency. The racist and classist violence by Maduro's secuirty forces is directly from the report by non-chavista socialist collectives in Venezuela. I have no nazis and if you were defending the violence by the far right I would be pointing out your moral conflict here.

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Reply #204 posted 03/01/19 1:32am

IanRG

deebee said:

IanRG said:

.

Coming into a conversation late in its progress without reading what has been discussed before means you may miss previous points and they then need to be rehashed just for your benefit.

.

Yes, the Red Cross and other aid organisations have refused to work with organisations (such as the US government) to provide aid with strings - This is a good, standard and normal process, one that I have been involved with with aid within Australia. You shoud read the article jawnnn posted above about how the Red Cross etc is advising against participating in US aid with strings because it also discusses how the Red Cross is having to negotiate with Maduro and, whilst he is letting some more aid in, it is pittance compared to what is needed: 10% of the population now malnourished due to lack of food and medical supplies plus all the refugees leaving means the overall population has been declining.

.

Refusing aid with strings does not mean the aid is not needed. A point in the youtube is that there is violence in Venezuela because the aid is needed and the two leaders and their followers are arguing how to get the aid in. Both Maduro and Guaido (together with the US, Russia etc.) are using people's lives as political pawns.

Thanks for the advice. Now, back to my question. You claimed that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." I'm trying to ascertain the basis of that claim, and happy to read whatever material you feel supports it.

Jawnnn has posted an NPR article. From my reading, what it says about ICRC is: "Humanitarian operations are supposed to be neutral. That's why the International Committee of the Red Cross, United Nations agencies and other relief organizations have refused to collaborate with the U.S. and its allies in the Venezuelan opposition who are trying to force President Nicolás Maduro from power."

So, I'm still none the wiser about the basis of your claim. The reply above pivots into talking about suffering within the population, which one might well argue that aid could play a part in alleviating. But this still doesn't add up to supporting the claim that Maduro is limiting aid through the Red Cross.

.

Read the article again and try Google. It says far more than the ICRC have (properly and appropriately) refused to collaborate with US aid with strings. It mentions the negotiations that the Red Cross has had with Maduro to negotiate getting more aid in - but it is still insignificant. There are many articles that discuss this effort stating Maduro allowed the Red Cross only a meagre doubling of aid despite 10% being malnourished, critical medical shortages. On top of this is a declining population die to refugees leaving the country. The article talks about the need for more aid and the reviews that the NGOs are now being subjected to by Maduro to limit what they can do. There is not indication that these NGOs were trying to give US aid with strings - and the article would have mentioned this if they were.

[Edited 3/1/19 1:38am]

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Reply #205 posted 03/01/19 1:35am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

That is a sick view. It assumes charity and social justice are mutually exclusive when they are often inter-related and complementary.

.

As I said, I don't work for a big business charity.

.

You are now just posting anything to express an opposite view because you are morally conflcted and cannot condemn violence if it comes from within your extremist ideology.

.

Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.

[Edited 3/1/19 1:13am]

The Hillary Clinton Foundation is perhaps the best embodiment of charity and politics. The Clinton foundation can only make money if they promote neo-liberal policies that create poverty or destruction through war. This is how Hillary Clinton makes money as do other charities. I actually do support charities. I just don’t think it should be promoted as the answer. As I pointed out like in the case of Hillary Clinton. She supports policies that will boost funding to her charity. She doesn’t support policies that will put her foundation out of business

.

I have nothing to do with the Clinton Foundation and make no money from any charity work.

.

Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.

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Reply #206 posted 03/01/19 1:38am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


You are lying about Chavistas and Maduro supporters that’s why I won’t stand with you. Stop lying and enabling this mess. Chavistas are not “super predators” Chill out Ian with that racist centrist mess you are spreading. You have to make Chavistas look bad or like super predators to make yourself look resonable and gain support for your centrist white suprmacist ideology. Black marxists and MAGA white supremacist are not the same. You and MAGA however are very similar. You both are gunning for Chavista and Maduro supporters because you both will profit from the destruction of Chavismo You all stick together at the end of the day. You claiming that Venezuela’s opposition is just as bad as the socialist government is proof of this. False equivalency to make Nazis look good. No I won’t stand with you and your Nazis. Fuck them. . [Edited 3/1/19 0:43am]

.


Normally you remove your more offensive comments in your edits. This is not a false equivalency. The racist and classist violence by Maduro's secuirty forces is directly from the report by non-chavista socialist collectives in Venezuela. I have no nazis and if you were defending the violence by the far right I would be pointing out your moral conflict here.



You are spreading lies about Chavistas.
Chavistas are the new “weapons of mass destruction” that need to be taken out,
Black radical peaceful marxists.
They are the complete opposite of what they are up against.
It’s ok to be the complete opposite sometimes.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #207 posted 03/01/19 1:43am

deebee

avatar

IanRG said:

deebee said:

Thanks for the advice. Now, back to my question. You claimed that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." I'm trying to ascertain the basis of that claim, and happy to read whatever material you feel supports it.

Jawnnn has posted an NPR article. From my reading, what it says about ICRC is: "Humanitarian operations are supposed to be neutral. That's why the International Committee of the Red Cross, United Nations agencies and other relief organizations have refused to collaborate with the U.S. and its allies in the Venezuelan opposition who are trying to force President Nicolás Maduro from power."

So, I'm still none the wiser about the basis of your claim. The reply above pivots into talking about suffering within the population, which one might well argue that aid could play a part in alleviating. But this still doesn't add up to supporting the claim that Maduro is limiting aid through the Red Cross.

.

Read the article and try Google. It says far more than the ICRC have (properly and appropriately) refused to collaborate with US aid with strings. It mentions the negotiations that the Red Cross has had with Maduro to negotiate getting more aid in - but it is still insignificant. There are many articles that dicsuss this effort stating Maduro allowed the Red Cross only a meagre doubling of aid despite 10% being malnourished and critical medical shortages. The article talks about the need for more and the reviews that the NGOs are now being subjected to limit what they can do. There is not indication that these NGOs were trying to give aid with strings - and the article would have mentioned this if they were.

I have read the article, and tried Google prior to asking the initial question, and I can't find evidence that would support the claim that "Maduro [is] limiting aid through the Red Cross, not just aid with strings." It's a claim you've made, so common standards of debate would dictate that it's for you to support. I'm not dismissing it out of hand; I'm simply asking to see the evidence that backs it up.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #208 posted 03/01/19 1:45am

hausofmoi7

avatar

IanRG said:



hausofmoi7 said:


IanRG said:


.


That is a sick view. It assumes charity and social justice are mutually exclusive when they are often inter-related and complementary.


.


As I said, I don't work for a big business charity.


.


You are now just posting anything to express an opposite view because you are morally conflcted and cannot condemn violence if it comes from within your extremist ideology.


.


Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.


[Edited 3/1/19 1:13am]



The Hillary Clinton Foundation is perhaps the best embodiment of charity and politics. The Clinton foundation can only make money if they promote neo-liberal policies that create poverty or destruction through war. This is how Hillary Clinton makes money as do other charities. I actually do support charities. I just don’t think it should be promoted as the answer. As I pointed out like in the case of Hillary Clinton. She supports policies that will boost funding to her charity. She doesn’t support policies that will put her foundation out of business

.


I have nothing to do with the Clinton Foundation and make no money from any charity work.


.


Keep posting, the hole is getting deeper.


You supported Hillary Clinton and also advocate for her political equivalents in Australia.
Support for the Maduro government i can understand.
But you supported Hillary Clinton and the Labour Party of Australia which is worse than supporting the Maduro government.

Take a seat Ian with your finger pointing at black socialists in Venezuela.
You are in no position to talk.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #209 posted 03/01/19 1:45am

IanRG

hausofmoi7 said:

IanRG said:

.

Normally you remove your more offensive comments in your edits. This is not a false equivalency. The racist and classist violence by Maduro's secuirty forces is directly from the report by non-chavista socialist collectives in Venezuela. I have no nazis and if you were defending the violence by the far right I would be pointing out your moral conflict here.

You are spreading lies about Chavistas. Chavistas are the new “weapons of mass destruction” that need to be taken out, Black radical peaceful marxists. They are the complete opposite of what they are up against. It’s ok to be the complete opposite sometimes.

.

The security forces are not the Chavista: ask your Venezuelan-Australian contact.

.

So demonstrate that the report by the Venezuelan socialist collective is incorrect - I only found this report from your article in the Australian Green Left Weekly. Obviously you never read the full report because this online magazine edited out the parts against Maduro and his security and you have consistently failed to address what real actual Venezuelan socialists are saying about the racist and classist violence against the poor and disadvantages by Maduro's security forces.

.

Keep posting, it is getting deeper and deeper.

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