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Forums > Politics & Religion > Gillette airs anti toxi masculinity ad, assholic men respond by crying like little girls.
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Reply #30 posted 01/17/19 1:04am

hausofmoi7

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

lol

They reach a wider audience, but, alienate half of them. But no big deal, the half they alienated (men) are just their primary target audience. No biggie.

#getwokegobroke lol



#getrichlikecoke

Which is what makes the ad bold.
I'm surprised that a corporation even had an opinion.
An opinion that you pointed out was also not in the best interest of their profits.



The need to appeal or please as many people as possible just to make money gets very dark.
At the end of the day you have to believe in something.
Or else what's the point.



Then in 1937, a rival German soda maker on a trip to the U.S. discovered Coke bottle caps with Hebrew writing on them, indicating they were kosher. The company quickly claimed Coca-Cola was run by Harold Hirsch, a Jew on the American company’s board. German Coke sales plummeted. Keith told Woodruff he should sack Hirsch, but he refused.
So Keith took steps to identify Coke with Nazism, including sending sales teams to mass patriotic events.
“As young men goose-stepped in formation at Hitler Youth rallies,” writes Pendergrast, “Coca-Cola trucks accompanied the marchers, hoping to capture the next generation.”



.
[Edited 1/17/19 1:45am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #31 posted 01/17/19 2:44am

jaawwnn

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Capitalism has no problem with being woke, money is money. If it pisses off Piers Morgan on i'm board with it but its just an advert at the end of the day.

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Reply #32 posted 01/17/19 3:55am

hausofmoi7

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jaawwnn said:

Capitalism has no problem with being woke, money is money. If it pisses off Piers Morgan on i'm board with it but its just an advert at the end of the day.


True.
However people are saying it failed because it will ultimately result in a sales loss for them.
That's how they are measuring this ads success.
That's the depth of the conversation.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #33 posted 01/17/19 4:46am

jaawwnn

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hausofmoi7 said:

jaawwnn said:

Capitalism has no problem with being woke, money is money. If it pisses off Piers Morgan on i'm board with it but its just an advert at the end of the day.

True. However people are saying it failed because it will ultimately result in a sales loss for them. That's how they are measuring this ads success. That's the depth of the conversation.

Honestly I doubt it will, they just gained some favour with 51% of their market and the other 49% is far from united in opposition against it. I suppose time will tell.

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Reply #34 posted 01/17/19 7:44am

guitarslinger4
4

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hausofmoi7 said:

djThunderfunk said:

lol

They reach a wider audience, but, alienate half of them. But no big deal, the half they alienated (men) are just their primary target audience. No biggie.

#getwokegobroke lol

#getrichlikecoke Which is what makes the ad bold. I'm surprised that a corporation even had an opinion. An opinion that you pointed out was also not in the best interest of their profits. The need to appeal or please as many people as possible just to make money gets very dark. At the end of the day you have to believe in something. Or else what's the point. Then in 1937, a rival German soda maker on a trip to the U.S. discovered Coke bottle caps with Hebrew writing on them, indicating they were kosher. The company quickly claimed Coca-Cola was run by Harold Hirsch, a Jew on the American company’s board. German Coke sales plummeted. Keith told Woodruff he should sack Hirsch, but he refused. So Keith took steps to identify Coke with Nazism, including sending sales teams to mass patriotic events. “As young men goose-stepped in formation at Hitler Youth rallies,” writes Pendergrast, “Coca-Cola trucks accompanied the marchers, hoping to capture the next generation.” . [Edited 1/17/19 1:45am]


I'd actually argue that the ad ISN'T bold really. It's a common ad tactic to find a group of people who you can piss off without it really impacting your sales, run an ad that appears controversial so those people get bent out of shape and make a big deal about it, thus pushing the ad even further than it would have gone before. The Kaepernick ad was the same thing really. It wasn't much of a risk considering that most people either didn't care or weren't invested enough in the Kaepernick thing for it to make a big difference. The people who were offended were a small minority who probably don't buy Nikes anyway.

If this ad had run 10+ years ago I'd definitely say it was a bold move, but in this day and age, this sort of thing is commonplace.

Besides, what other razor options are there really for most people? If most guys just go to the drug store or supermarket and buy a razor, Gillette is largely what's there, at least where I'm at. There are few other options besides them really.

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Reply #35 posted 01/17/19 7:46am

deebee

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hausofmoi7 said:

jaawwnn said:

Capitalism has no problem with being woke, money is money. If it pisses off Piers Morgan on i'm board with it but its just an advert at the end of the day.

True. However people are saying it failed because it will ultimately result in a sales loss for them. That's how they are measuring this ads success. That's the depth of the conversation.

Some people may be saying it could lose them sales, and it may be how those people are measuring the ad's success. The company will undoubtedly not be using that measure, though. It will be gauging success in marketing terms - with the ultimate aim to increase sales, maximise profits and increase shareholder value. If it fails on those terms, they will change tack in a heartbeat.

I think we have to assume this ad is part of an overall strategy of (re)building brand identity. Probably, the company is seeking to shed it's old-school image from the played-out 'best a man can get' era, and appeal to a younger demographic in a burgeoning marketplace for male grooming products. Where those men's fathers may have wanted to be sold an image of hunky masculinity, this generation of male consumers is quite comfortable with the vast selection of moisturisers, face creams, unisex fragrances, and all the rest of it. And what better way to appeal to them than with a celebration of the kind of 'new man' image the ad men are betting they'll recognise and identify with?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #36 posted 01/17/19 8:04am

deebee

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jaawwnn said:

Capitalism has no problem with being woke, money is money. If it pisses off Piers Morgan on i'm board with it but its just an advert at the end of the day.

The tragic thing is, it probably doesn't even piss off Piers Morgan, who seems to me merely to be a tiresome mouthpiece who's realised he can get his name in the media pages by playing the role of a sort of Katie Hopkins Lite. Every time there's a story that can plausibly be construed as reflecting a certain liberal identitarian sensibility, his little bot brain tweets out "snowflake!!" Then earnest counter-tweeters get affronted; he ups the ante and gets more slimy; and before you know it he's got another series on ITV.

He's an endless source of amusement and contempt for me, as he just seems like such a vacuous shell of a man, and his attempt to surf the 'culture wars' seems so unconvincing. You're no enemy of the 'metropolitan elite', Morgan! Yer name's Piers, ferchrissakes!! lol

[Edited 1/17/19 9:07am]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #37 posted 01/17/19 9:55am

2freaky4church
1

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Only did good for once.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #38 posted 01/17/19 9:56am

2freaky4church
1

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Kyle Kulinsky doesn't like the ad.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #39 posted 01/17/19 10:48am

RodeoSchro

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2freaky4church1 said:

Kyle Kulinsky doesn't like the ad.



Well, tell him that RodeoSchro does like the ad.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #40 posted 01/17/19 10:51am

maplenpg

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deebee said:

hausofmoi7 said:

jaawwnn said: True. However people are saying it failed because it will ultimately result in a sales loss for them. That's how they are measuring this ads success. That's the depth of the conversation.

Some people may be saying it could lose them sales, and it may be how those people are measuring the ad's success. The company will undoubtedly not be using that measure, though. It will be gauging success in marketing terms - with the ultimate aim to increase sales, maximise profits and increase shareholder value. If it fails on those terms, they will change tack in a heartbeat.

I think we have to assume this ad is part of an overall strategy of (re)building brand identity. Probably, the company is seeking to shed it's old-school image from the played-out 'best a man can get' era, and appeal to a younger demographic in a burgeoning marketplace for male grooming products. Where those men's fathers may have wanted to be sold an image of hunky masculinity, this generation of male consumers is quite comfortable with the vast selection of moisturisers, face creams, unisex fragrances, and all the rest of it. And what better way to appeal to them than with a celebration of the kind of 'new man' image the ad men are betting they'll recognise and identify with?

I agree with all of this but, to expand on the part I've bolded, I think there is (and always has been with Gillette) a subliminal message to the women out there. Many women shop for the man in their life and will relate to this advert. Whether everyday shaving gear, or birthday/Chrisrtmas presents, Gillette are wanting women to want to buy Gillette. And women could be seen to be demanding more now than just hunky masculinity. In this way Gillette goes beyond the aesthetics and delves deeper into the phyche of its customer, and the type of person that might want to be associated with its customers - in other words, it's aimed at not just the 'new man' but the 'new woman' who wants a 'new man' too.

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #41 posted 01/17/19 1:20pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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deebee said:

jaawwnn said:

Capitalism has no problem with being woke, money is money. If it pisses off Piers Morgan on i'm board with it but its just an advert at the end of the day.

The tragic thing is, it probably doesn't even piss off Piers Morgan, who seems to me merely to be a tiresome mouthpiece who's realised he can get his name in the media pages by playing the role of a sort of Katie Hopkins Lite. Every time there's a story that can plausibly be construed as reflecting a certain liberal identitarian sensibility, his little bot brain tweets out "snowflake!!" Then earnest counter-tweeters get affronted; he ups the ante and gets more slimy; and before you know it he's got another series on ITV.

He's an endless source of amusement and contempt for me, as he just seems like such a vacuous shell of a man, and his attempt to surf the 'culture wars' seems so unconvincing. You're no enemy of the 'metropolitan elite', Morgan! Yer name's Piers, ferchrissakes!! lol

[Edited 1/17/19 9:07am]


Agree - Piers is douchey.

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #42 posted 01/17/19 3:44pm

hausofmoi7

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2freaky4church1 said:

Only did good for once.



OnlyNdaUsa is your Farrakhan.
When are you going to drop him?
He says stuff far far worse than Farrakhan.
You could extend your Christian values further than to just white conservatives.




.
[Edited 1/17/19 22:49pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #43 posted 01/17/19 5:10pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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hausofmoi7 said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Only did good for once.

OnlyNdaUsa is your Farrakhan. When are you going to drop him? He says stuff far far worse than Farrakhan. You should extend your Christian values further than just white conservatives

that is not at all true.


I have never said members of a different race were not true humans!

I have never called for the genocide of a religion...

I have never called for 10,000 white men to rise up and murder other races...

I never referred to members of another race Satan!

Yeah, you Lie!

[Edited 1/17/19 17:17pm]

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #44 posted 01/17/19 5:21pm

hausofmoi7

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



hausofmoi7 said:


2freaky4church1 said:

Only did good for once.



OnlyNdaUsa is your Farrakhan. When are you going to drop him? He says stuff far far worse than Farrakhan. You should extend your Christian values further than just white conservatives



that is not at all true.


I have never said members of a different race were not true humans!

I have never called for the genocide of a religion...



I have never called for 10,000 white men to rise up and murder other races...

I never referred to members of another race Satan!

Yeah, you Lie!

[Edited 1/17/19 17:17pm]


For starters the time you said 5 year Olds in Yemen or Syria who were killed in airstrikes were likely ISIS sympathisers due to the fact of where they were located.
You said "perhaps not so sad afterall" and that they shouldn't be considered civilian and should viewed as combatants instead.



.
[Edited 1/17/19 17:24pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #45 posted 01/17/19 5:31pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

hausofmoi7 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

that is not at all true.


I have never said members of a different race were not true humans!

I have never called for the genocide of a religion...

I have never called for 10,000 white men to rise up and murder other races...

I never referred to members of another race Satan!

Yeah, you Lie!

[Edited 1/17/19 17:17pm]

For starters the time you said 5 year Olds in Yemen or Syria who were killed in airstrikes were likely ISIS sympathisers due to the fact of where they were located. You said "perhaps not so sad afterall" and that they shouldn't be considered civilian and should viewed as combatants instead. . [Edited 1/17/19 17:24pm]

pretty far out of context...

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #46 posted 01/17/19 5:36pm

hausofmoi7

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



hausofmoi7 said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:




that is not at all true.


I have never said members of a different race were not true humans!

I have never called for the genocide of a religion...



I have never called for 10,000 white men to rise up and murder other races...

I never referred to members of another race Satan!

Yeah, you Lie!


[Edited 1/17/19 17:17pm]



For starters the time you said 5 year Olds in Yemen or Syria who were killed in airstrikes were likely ISIS sympathisers due to the fact of where they were located. You said "perhaps not so sad afterall" and that they shouldn't be considered civilian and should viewed as combatants instead. . [Edited 1/17/19 17:24pm]


pretty far out of context...


You actually went further.
You said that some children were more than sympathisers and were actual combatants , as there had been kids seen with guns in the area prior to the airstrike.

I wouldn't say you are Farrakhan.
Doing so would diminish the fact that Farrakhans life can only be viewed as devoted to service to others.
Farrakhan is like the black mother Teresa, an at times highly problematic and controversial figure.
But just like Mother Teresa, Farrakhan is someone who's motivation and life's work is driven by love for other people and not hate.
We put aside Mother Teresa's short comings due to the fact that her great work surely is the sum of who she was as a person.
In the same way many people view and hold Farrakhan as someone who's good far out weighs the bad by far.







.
[Edited 1/18/19 0:56am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #47 posted 01/17/19 5:37pm

MoBettaBliss

just watched the ad... i absolutely love it... well done gillette

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Reply #48 posted 01/18/19 3:40am

deebee

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maplenpg said:

deebee said:

Some people may be saying it could lose them sales, and it may be how those people are measuring the ad's success. The company will undoubtedly not be using that measure, though. It will be gauging success in marketing terms - with the ultimate aim to increase sales, maximise profits and increase shareholder value. If it fails on those terms, they will change tack in a heartbeat.

I think we have to assume this ad is part of an overall strategy of (re)building brand identity. Probably, the company is seeking to shed it's old-school image from the played-out 'best a man can get' era, and appeal to a younger demographic in a burgeoning marketplace for male grooming products. Where those men's fathers may have wanted to be sold an image of hunky masculinity, this generation of male consumers is quite comfortable with the vast selection of moisturisers, face creams, unisex fragrances, and all the rest of it. And what better way to appeal to them than with a celebration of the kind of 'new man' image the ad men are betting they'll recognise and identify with?

I agree with all of this but, to expand on the part I've bolded, I think there is (and always has been with Gillette) a subliminal message to the women out there. Many women shop for the man in their life and will relate to this advert. Whether everyday shaving gear, or birthday/Chrisrtmas presents, Gillette are wanting women to want to buy Gillette. And women could be seen to be demanding more now than just hunky masculinity. In this way Gillette goes beyond the aesthetics and delves deeper into the phyche of its customer, and the type of person that might want to be associated with its customers - in other words, it's aimed at not just the 'new man' but the 'new woman' who wants a 'new man' too.

Yes, I know what you mean, and I imagine they do use that strategy - especially as it's so common for men to be 'helpfully advised' (ahem...razz) by their partners on such matters. It's a little like those posters you see for the 'perfect beach body' or whatever, that I always imagine are intended to turn male heads, which the target female audience is supposed to notice. I guess advertisers are always playing on our desires, and one of the things we desire is to be desired.

I don't know if you've seen Adam Curtis's Century of the Self documentary, but it's interesting on the early attempts to bring ideas about unconscious desires into advertising and then political PR. Possibly a bit dated now, as market research is probably less speculative and more prosaic these days, but still some interesting nuggets in there about tapping into people's psyches to sell them stuff.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #49 posted 01/18/19 3:44am

deebee

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DiminutiveRocker said:

deebee said:

The tragic thing is, it probably doesn't even piss off Piers Morgan, who seems to me merely to be a tiresome mouthpiece who's realised he can get his name in the media pages by playing the role of a sort of Katie Hopkins Lite. Every time there's a story that can plausibly be construed as reflecting a certain liberal identitarian sensibility, his little bot brain tweets out "snowflake!!" Then earnest counter-tweeters get affronted; he ups the ante and gets more slimy; and before you know it he's got another series on ITV.

He's an endless source of amusement and contempt for me, as he just seems like such a vacuous shell of a man, and his attempt to surf the 'culture wars' seems so unconvincing. You're no enemy of the 'metropolitan elite', Morgan! Yer name's Piers, ferchrissakes!! lol

[Edited 1/17/19 9:07am]


Agree - Piers is douchey.

Yeah, he's a total opportunist in my view.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #50 posted 01/18/19 5:53am

djThunderfunk

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Ross Perot was right!!
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Reply #51 posted 01/18/19 9:06am

ThatWhiteDude

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

hausofmoi7 said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: For starters the time you said 5 year Olds in Yemen or Syria who were killed in airstrikes were likely ISIS sympathisers due to the fact of where they were located. You said "perhaps not so sad afterall" and that they shouldn't be considered civilian and should viewed as combatants instead. . [Edited 1/17/19 17:24pm]

pretty far out of context...

This is always your answer when somebody calls you out on stuff you said "pretty far out of context" lol

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #52 posted 01/18/19 9:06am

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:




How do you define "Toxic Masculinity"?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #53 posted 01/18/19 10:10am

13cjk13

RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:




How do you define "Toxic Masculinity"?

Just ask "Campus Reform" and get a whiny put-upon conservative answer lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

"If we had had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."
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Reply #54 posted 01/18/19 10:26am

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:




How do you define "Toxic Masculinity"?


I don't.

Ross Perot was right!!
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Reply #55 posted 01/18/19 10:28am

djThunderfunk

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13cjk13 said:

RodeoSchro said:




How do you define "Toxic Masculinity"?

Just ask "Campus Reform" and get a whiny put-upon conservative answer lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol


I guess you see Campus Reform as some kind of alt-right enemy? lol

Ross Perot was right!!
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Reply #56 posted 01/19/19 10:14am

2freaky4church
1

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Like when they told Abby Martin they wanted to rape and kill her. TM on drugs.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #57 posted 01/19/19 10:41am

OnlyNDaUsa

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djThunderfunk said:

a few gave decent answers...most gave garbage answers...that one gender studies (what a worthless major that is) gave some of the worst.

I would say it is an issue. And it is when a male sees themselves as being superior to females based on being born male. When they rely on aspects of masculinity to resolve disputes... like saying they want to punch someone in the face to settle a philosophical dispute... Or when they excuse bad behavior (especially sexually based) as just being male or that is 'just how it is.'

when does it cross a line? when it becomes abusive... when it is used to dismiss people on a basis of gender or when a male uses physical dominance over others (males or females) to get their way.

What is NOT fair is going back in time and deeming something so offensive as worthy of being banned or worthy of being fired. (excluding actual crimes) And the reason why? SIMPLE! Some stuff that we might all agree is fine now might be 20 years from now...no so okay.

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #58 posted 01/19/19 2:06pm

djThunderfunk

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Ross Perot was right!!
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Reply #59 posted 01/19/19 3:00pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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Dude.... it's bad, brah... dude.... are people gonna have dicks in the future? Hey, bro... like, what are you doing? Yo yo yo guys... you're selling razors... "don't be racist - we know. dont be sexist - we know" We have the internet now, man. Cool people are everywhere, man.


rolleyes


"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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