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Reply #90 posted 01/10/18 8:21am

maplenpg

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Notice, few if any, to my knowledge, have sued for wrongful termination so far. Perhaps they are afraid of what information would be revealed.


Notice, few accusers have gone to the police to file charges or a lawyer to file suit. Perhaps they have no evidence to prove their accusations.

One of the huge difficulties is that it often becomes one persons word against another as there is no evidence. That does not entail that it did not happen. It is also the reason the least powerful has often kept quiet for so long - because they know that people will not believe them. Sadly, even now, they are proved right in their assumptions.


Extract from 2016 BBC article and not about Hollywood but it is still very relevant: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...e-36055744



While it is accepted societal attitudes have changed, giving more victims the confidence to come forward, there is a viewpoint that "the scales of justice" remain heavily balanced in favour of the perpetrator."

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #91 posted 01/10/18 8:22am

Dancelot

avatar

SuperFurryAnimal said:

jjhunsecker said:

poppys said: Next we'll hear about "welfare queens driving Cadillacs" and "strapping bucks buying steaks with food stamps "...

Trump may be able to eliminate a lot of Welfare if he can bring more jobs.

true!

and I may me able to play an entire big band arrangement all by myself if I can have 38 arms.

Vanglorious... this is protected by the red, the black, and the green. With a key... sissy!
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Reply #92 posted 01/10/18 8:29am

djThunderfunk

avatar

maplenpg said:

djThunderfunk said:


Notice, few accusers have gone to the police to file charges or a lawyer to file suit. Perhaps they have no evidence to prove their accusations.

One of the huge difficulties is that it often becomes one persons word against another as there is no evidence. That does not entail that it did not happen. It is also the reason the least powerful has often kept quiet for so long - because they know that people will not believe them. Sadly, even now, they are proved right in their assumptions.


Extract from 2016 BBC article and not about Hollywood but it is still very relevant: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...e-36055744



While it is accepted societal attitudes have changed, giving more victims the confidence to come forward, there is a viewpoint that "the scales of justice" remain heavily balanced in favour of the perpetrator."


Excellent points but they don't invalidate the importance of due process.

Ross Perot was right!!
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Reply #93 posted 01/10/18 8:37am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

2elijah said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

or like how barack was one too and blamed everything on bush... hell in 2008 and 2012 brack acted like he was running against bush! Forget them all!

Trump never takes acountability for anything. He’s childless, divisive, a sexist, has a long history of making racist comments about many Americans of color, and is not a good role model as president.

please provide 10 examples over the last 20 years of such.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #94 posted 01/10/18 9:00am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

Notice, few if any, to my knowledge, have sued for wrongful termination so far. Perhaps they are afraid of what information would be revealed.


Notice, few accusers have gone to the police to file charges or a lawyer to file suit. Perhaps they have no evidence to prove their accusations.

Then your issue should be with the employers who fire these men. However, you are assuming that these companies did not have evidence to back up their decisions, evidence that they may have chosen not to release. It's hard to believe that famous millionaires like Matt Lauer or Bill O'Reilly would lose their jobs based purely on some statement by a woman...



And many would say a woman (or a man, too) who filed a lawsuit alleging harassment may be saying these things just to get "paid"...So damned if you, and damned if you don't...

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Reply #95 posted 01/10/18 9:00am

maplenpg

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

2elijah said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: Trump never takes acountability for anything. He’s childless, divisive, a sexist, has a long history of making racist comments about many Americans of color, and is not a good role model as president.

please provide 10 examples over the last 20 years of such.

Yawn - how many times do people have to do this for you to believe it? Just google Trump racist comments. There are literally pages of articles. Here is one:


http://www.dw.com/en/the-...a-40127122

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #96 posted 01/10/18 9:02am

maplenpg

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

maplenpg said:

One of the huge difficulties is that it often becomes one persons word against another as there is no evidence. That does not entail that it did not happen. It is also the reason the least powerful has often kept quiet for so long - because they know that people will not believe them. Sadly, even now, they are proved right in their assumptions.


Extract from 2016 BBC article and not about Hollywood but it is still very relevant: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...e-36055744



While it is accepted societal attitudes have changed, giving more victims the confidence to come forward, there is a viewpoint that "the scales of justice" remain heavily balanced in favour of the perpetrator."


Excellent points but they don't invalidate the importance of due process.

No, neither does lack of evidence mean that the victim is being untruthful. Sometimes a court case just isn't possible.

[Edited 1/10/18 9:07am]

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #97 posted 01/10/18 9:07am

jjhunsecker

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

2elijah said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: Trump never takes acountability for anything. He’s childless, divisive, a sexist, has a long history of making racist comments about many Americans of color, and is not a good role model as president.

please provide 10 examples over the last 20 years of such.

https://www.metro.us/pres...d-timeline

https://www.rollingstone....sm-w497876

https://www.washingtonpos...story.html

https://theintercept.com/...ttesville/

http://www.latimes.com/op...story.html

http://fortune.com/2016/0...sm-quotes/

https://www.pbs.org/newsh...story-race


I could finf more, but I got tired ...

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Reply #98 posted 01/10/18 9:11am

jjhunsecker

avatar

maplenpg said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

please provide 10 examples over the last 20 years of such.

Yawn - how many times do people have to do this for you to believe it? Just google Trump racist comments. There are literally pages of articles. Here is one:


http://www.dw.com/en/the-...a-40127122

He'll either dismiss it (saying it's just "leftist smears") or disappear when he can't refute the facts

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Reply #99 posted 01/10/18 9:14am

jjhunsecker

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

maplenpg said:

One of the huge difficulties is that it often becomes one persons word against another as there is no evidence. That does not entail that it did not happen. It is also the reason the least powerful has often kept quiet for so long - because they know that people will not believe them. Sadly, even now, they are proved right in their assumptions.


Extract from 2016 BBC article and not about Hollywood but it is still very relevant: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...e-36055744



While it is accepted societal attitudes have changed, giving more victims the confidence to come forward, there is a viewpoint that "the scales of justice" remain heavily balanced in favour of the perpetrator."


Excellent points but they don't invalidate the importance of due process.

Due Process is for legal matters, both civil and criminal.

A private company can fire anyone for any reason at any time, as long as it can be proven that the firing was not based on discriminatin of any kind, or retaliation for a complaint made earlier by the fired employee

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Reply #100 posted 01/10/18 9:15am

13cjk13

OnlyNDaUsa said:

2elijah said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: Trump never takes acountability for anything. He’s childless, divisive, a sexist, has a long history of making racist comments about many Americans of color, and is not a good role model as president.

please provide 10 examples over the last 20 years of such.

pay attention.

"If we had had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."
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Reply #101 posted 01/10/18 9:15am

13cjk13

"If we had had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."
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Reply #102 posted 01/10/18 10:04am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

please provide 10 examples over the last 20 years of such.

https://www.metro.us/pres...d-timeline

https://www.rollingstone....sm-w497876

https://www.washingtonpos...story.html

https://theintercept.com/...ttesville/

http://www.latimes.com/op...story.html

http://fortune.com/2016/0...sm-quotes/

https://www.pbs.org/newsh...story-race


I could finf more, but I got tired ...

so the same old hand full of mostly nothing.. some are not even him... most are not racist... but mostly a lot of nothing.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #103 posted 01/10/18 10:18am

maplenpg

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

https://www.metro.us/pres...d-timeline

https://www.rollingstone....sm-w497876

https://www.washingtonpos...story.html

https://theintercept.com/...ttesville/

http://www.latimes.com/op...story.html

http://fortune.com/2016/0...sm-quotes/

https://www.pbs.org/newsh...story-race


I could finf more, but I got tired ...

so the same old hand full of mostly nothing.. some are not even him... most are not racist... but mostly a lot of nothing.

First - the fact you put "most are not racist" implies that you do agree that some are racist. JJ is right - you have your head so far in the sand it is untrue. What exactly doyou constitute as racist? What about these two very specific examples - racist, not even him, or a lot of nothing?

1) "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," Trump said in 2015. "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."



2) United States Army Captain Humayun Khan was killed in Iraq in 2004. His parents, Americans with Pakistani roots, spoke at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. The father, Khizr Khan, spoke; his wife, Ghazala, stood by him.

Trump's interpretation of the scene: "If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably - maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say."

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #104 posted 01/10/18 10:35am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

maplenpg said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

so the same old hand full of mostly nothing.. some are not even him... most are not racist... but mostly a lot of nothing.

First - the fact you put "most are not racist" implies that you do agree that some are racist. JJ is right - you have your head so far in the sand it is untrue. What exactly doyou constitute as racist? What about these two very specific examples - racist, not even him, or a lot of nothing?

not necessarily but nice try. I have issues with some of them but some have nothing to do with race.

1) "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," Trump said in 2015. "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."


I said he was done when he said that way back when he said it



2) United States Army Captain Humayun Khan was killed in Iraq in 2004. His parents, Americans with Pakistani roots, spoke at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. The father, Khizr Khan, spoke; his wife, Ghazala, stood by him.

Trump's interpretation of the scene: "If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably - maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say."

he is a pig but that was twisted into he was attacking gold star families... (which is something that I would never abide) but he was just being a jerk and it was bigoted.

like I said there are a few but if you look at the lists many of them are nothing

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #105 posted 01/10/18 11:36am

jjhunsecker

avatar

maplenpg said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:




jjhunsecker said:




https://www.metro.us/pres...d-timeline


https://www.rollingstone....sm-w497876


https://www.washingtonpos...story.html


https://theintercept.com/...ttesville/


http://www.latimes.com/op...story.html


http://fortune.com/2016/0...sm-quotes/


https://www.pbs.org/newsh...story-race





I could finf more, but I got tired ...





so the same old hand full of mostly nothing.. some are not even him... most are not racist... but mostly a lot of nothing.



First - the fact you put "most are not racist" implies that you do agree that some are racist. JJ is right - you have your head so far in the sand it is untrue. What exactly doyou constitute as racist? What about these two very specific examples - racist, not even him, or a lot of nothing?



1) "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," Trump said in 2015. "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."






2) United States Army Captain Humayun Khan was killed in Iraq in 2004. His parents, Americans with Pakistani roots, spoke at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. The father, Khizr Khan, spoke; his wife, Ghazala, stood by him.


Trump's interpretation of the scene: "If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably - maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say."



You have to understand that Only is a partisan hack who feels that it is his duty to protect Conservative Republicans from any and all charges of racism and bias. His main tactic is simply to deny all, and dismiss completely the opinions of those who think otherwise. Or he will engage in "whataboutism", as a means to run away from the discussion at hand. You have to wonder about someone who reads these instances and refuses to make the obvious conclusion. However, I highly doubt that he even READ the attached examples before dismissing them.
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Reply #106 posted 01/10/18 11:39am

luvsexy4all

..but WOULD she sell-out????

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Reply #107 posted 01/10/18 11:45am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Jimmy Dore has a good take:

Only now has to defend Dore. haha

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #108 posted 01/10/18 11:51am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

jjhunsecker said:


You have to understand that Only is a partisan hack who feels that it is his duty to protect Conservative Republicans from any and all charges of racism and bias. His main tactic is simply to deny all, and dismiss completely the opinions of those who think otherwise. Or he will engage in "whataboutism", as a means to run away from the discussion at hand. You have to wonder about someone who reads these instances and refuses to make the obvious conclusion. However, I highly doubt that he even READ the attached examples before dismissing them.



making personal insults or trying to be insulting is not how one conducts a discussion. Most of what you said about me is not true.



1) i do not defend against all claims... (falsehood 1)


2) I do not deny or dismiss all I may not always agree (as you do not always agree with me) (falsehood 2)


3) I do not use "whataboutism" to defend anyone. I do mention times when some have shown a double standard as you have with Bill Maher. (Falsehood 3)


4) I have been critical of trump many times (falsehood 4)


5) you are correct I read 2 of them... they all seem to repeat the same few as well as the ones that are non-examples. (one was about his father)


So you OWE me 4 apologies! I demand them!

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #109 posted 01/10/18 11:57am

free2bFreeda2

2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:



poppys said:




SuperFurryAnimal said:


I hope Oprah runs for President. Oprah and Trump have a lot of business savvy.



Except Oprah knows how to run successful businesses and hasn't gone bankrupt, even once.



And she has a brain and a heart, two things lacking in the current WH occupant ....


Exactly. She’s intelligent, courageous and has a beautiful spirit that connects with many.

yeahthat
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Reply #110 posted 01/10/18 11:58am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Really 2Elijah:

All those Iraq war things were lies.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #111 posted 01/10/18 12:01pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:



jjhunsecker said:



You have to understand that Only is a partisan hack who feels that it is his duty to protect Conservative Republicans from any and all charges of racism and bias. His main tactic is simply to deny all, and dismiss completely the opinions of those who think otherwise. Or he will engage in "whataboutism", as a means to run away from the discussion at hand. You have to wonder about someone who reads these instances and refuses to make the obvious conclusion. However, I highly doubt that he even READ the attached examples before dismissing them.





making personal insults or trying to be insulting is not how one conducts a discussion. Most of what you said about me is not true.



1) i do not defend against all claims... (falsehood 1)




2) I do not deny or dismiss all I may not always agree (as you do not always agree with me) (falsehood 2)


3) I do not use "whataboutism" to defend anyone. I do mention times when some have shown a double standard as you have with Bill Maher. (Falsehood 3)


4) I have been critical of trump many times (falsehood 4)


5) you are correct I read 2 of them... they all seem to repeat the same few as well as the ones that are non-examples. (one was about his father)


So you OWE me 4 apologies! I demand them!



Suck it! We're onto your games
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Reply #112 posted 01/10/18 12:07pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

maplenpg said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:




jjhunsecker said:




https://www.metro.us/pres...d-timeline


https://www.rollingstone....sm-w497876


https://www.washingtonpos...story.html


https://theintercept.com/...ttesville/


http://www.latimes.com/op...story.html


http://fortune.com/2016/0...sm-quotes/


https://www.pbs.org/newsh...story-race





I could finf more, but I got tired ...





so the same old hand full of mostly nothing.. some are not even him... most are not racist... but mostly a lot of nothing.



First - the fact you put "most are not racist" implies that you do agree that some are racist. JJ is right - you have your head so far in the sand it is untrue. What exactly doyou constitute as racist? What about these two very specific examples - racist, not even him, or a lot of nothing?



1) "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," Trump said in 2015. "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."






2) United States Army Captain Humayun Khan was killed in Iraq in 2004. His parents, Americans with Pakistani roots, spoke at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. The father, Khizr Khan, spoke; his wife, Ghazala, stood by him.


Trump's interpretation of the scene: "If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably - maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say."



The Only way he would call Trump a racist is if he said "Fuck the niggers and spics and gooks" during the State of the Union address. And even then I suspect he'd find some excuse or justification...

Really, if you can't call a person who says that marching white supremacists and Nazis contain "very fine people ", then you can get a very good inkling of the values and ideas of the one who provides justification or ignores what is right there for all to see
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Reply #113 posted 01/10/18 12:10pm

poppys

jjhunsecker said:


You have to understand that Only is a partisan hack who feels that it is his duty to protect Conservative Republicans from any and all charges of racism and bias. His main tactic is simply to deny all, and dismiss completely the opinions of those who think otherwise. Or he will engage in "whataboutism", as a means to run away from the discussion at hand. You have to wonder about someone who reads these instances and refuses to make the obvious conclusion. However, I highly doubt that he even READ the attached examples before dismissing them.
OnlyNDaUsa said:

making personal insults or trying to be insulting is not how one conducts a discussion. Most of what you said about me is not true.



1) i do not defend against all claims... (falsehood 1)


2) I do not deny or dismiss all I may not always agree (as you do not always agree with me) (falsehood 2)


3) I do not use "whataboutism" to defend anyone. I do mention times when some have shown a double standard as you have with Bill Maher. (Falsehood 3)


4) I have been critical of trump many times (falsehood 4)


5) you are correct I read 2 of them... they all seem to repeat the same few as well as the ones that are non-examples. (one was about his father)


So you OWE me 4 apologies! I demand them!

Suck it! We're onto your games

Yup. Beaucoup tedious.

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Reply #114 posted 01/10/18 12:11pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

given that you excuse those with whom you agree with using that word you can not say much.


again I have taken issue with some of the things he said. I asked for a list and I got the same few examples of problematic statements.


But whatever we all know you have a double standard so it is expected that you would be like this.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #115 posted 01/10/18 12:21pm

poppys

OnlyNDaUsa said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

given that you excuse those with whom you agree with using that word you can not say much.


again I have taken issue with some of the things he said. I asked for a list and I got the same few examples of problematic statements.


But whatever we all know you have a double standard so it is expected that you would be like this.

What word are you talking about?

Oh and if you said this to a grand jury:

3) I do not use "whataboutism" to defend anyone. I do mention times when some have shown a double standard as you have with Bill Maher. (Falsehood 3)

You would be indicted using your own org posts.

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Reply #116 posted 01/10/18 12:24pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

poppys said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

given that you excuse those with whom you agree with using that word you can not say much.


again I have taken issue with some of the things he said. I asked for a list and I got the same few examples of problematic statements.


But whatever we all know you have a double standard so it is expected that you would be like this.

What word are you talking about?

Oh and if you said this to a grand jury:

3) I do not use "whataboutism" to defend anyone. I do mention times when some have shown a double standard as you have with Bill Maher. (Falsehood 3)

You would be indicted using your own org posts.

I do not use nor do I make a habit of saying that word so whatever...



point 2: not true (but feel free to go looking and you will see that I use the other examples to show double standard but not as a defence to the alleged offence itself)

[Edited 1/10/18 12:25pm]

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #117 posted 01/10/18 12:25pm

poppys

OnlyNDaUsa said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

given that you excuse those with whom you agree with using that word you can not say much.


again I have taken issue with some of the things he said. I asked for a list and I got the same few examples of problematic statements.


But whatever we all know you have a double standard so it is expected that you would be like this.

Yes, somebody called somebody a whitey in Prince Music and More the other day as a joke. I was waiting for you to show up and lecture them with your lofty standards and all.

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Reply #118 posted 01/10/18 12:28pm

maplenpg

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

First - the fact you put "most are not racist" implies that you do agree that some are racist. JJ is right - you have your head so far in the sand it is untrue. What exactly doyou constitute as racist? What about these two very specific examples - racist, not even him, or a lot of nothing?

not necessarily but nice try. I have issues with some of them but some have nothing to do with race.

1) "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," Trump said in 2015. "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."


I said he was done when he said that way back when he said it



2) United States Army Captain Humayun Khan was killed in Iraq in 2004. His parents, Americans with Pakistani roots, spoke at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. The father, Khizr Khan, spoke; his wife, Ghazala, stood by him.

Trump's interpretation of the scene: "If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably - maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say."

he is a pig but that was twisted into he was attacking gold star families... (which is something that I would never abide) but he was just being a jerk and it was bigoted.

like I said there are a few but if you look at the lists many of them are nothing

So you agree that 1) was racist (and I don't think 2015 is 'way back')? And you agree that in 2) Trump was a bigoted jerk. Begs the question - Why do you continue to defend the prick (who you yourself call a pig)?

JJ and Poppy and all of the others are right - you have a total partisan fixation based on the fact that, according to you, he is the better option, better than Hilary, so you forgive him almost anything. But to deny that he is a racist when time and time again you have evidence that he clearly is makes you have no credibility at all.


I have no wish to derail the thread, which has already shifted off topic - for the record, I would not want to see Oprah in politics, let alone running for office. We've already seen what celebrities with big egos can do given a bit of power.

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #119 posted 01/10/18 12:31pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

poppys said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

given that you excuse those with whom you agree with using that word you can not say much.


again I have taken issue with some of the things he said. I asked for a list and I got the same few examples of problematic statements.


But whatever we all know you have a double standard so it is expected that you would be like this.

Yes, somebody called somebody a whitey in Prince Music and More the other day as a joke. I was waiting for you to show up and lecture them with your lofty standards and all.

I did not notice anyone do that. you called me that and that was messed up... we should not use race or gender or any identity-based terms as slurs or insults.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Forums > Politics & Religion > Oprah Winfrey Received the Cecil B. DeMille Award - Golden Globes 2018...