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Thread started 02/10/17 12:50pm

QueenofCardboa
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Does anyone here Know the Epic of Gilgamesh?


Does anyone here know the Epic of Gilgamesh?

What do you think of it?

What does it tell us about, Civilization, Sex, Love, Life, Death, and God?





[Edited 2/11/17 23:53pm]

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Reply #1 posted 02/10/17 2:41pm

NorthC

Isn't that the one that talks about a great flood, just like the story of Noah?
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Reply #2 posted 02/10/17 2:52pm

QueenofCardboa
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NorthC said:

Isn't that the one that talks about a great flood, just like the story of Noah?


Yeah, the Noah Great Flood story is in there.



[Edited 2/11/17 19:09pm]

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #3 posted 02/10/17 7:46pm

TonyVanDam

QueenofCardboard said:

NorthC said:

Isn't that the one that talks about a great flood, just like the story of Noah?


Yeah, the Noah story is in there.

.



Noah's Ark is a rip-off of the Epic Of Gilgamesh. nod

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Reply #4 posted 02/11/17 7:48am

Dasein

TonyVanDam said:

QueenofCardboard said:


Yeah, the Noah story is in there.

.



Noah's Ark is a rip-off of the Epic Of Gilgamesh. nod


The Hebrews used other Levant folktales just like everybody else did. Calling it a "rip off" could
indicate some type of bias here.

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Reply #5 posted 02/11/17 7:49am

Dasein

QueenofCardboard said:


Does anyone here know the Legend of Gilgamesh?

What do you think of it?

What does it say about, Civilization, Love, Life, Death, and God?


What do you think about the Legend of Gilgamesh?

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Reply #6 posted 02/11/17 10:28am

QueenofCardboa
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Dasein said:

QueenofCardboard said:


Does anyone here know the Legend of Gilgamesh?

What do you think of it?

What does it say about, Civilization, Love, Life, Death, and God?


What do you think about the Legend of Gilgamesh?


First off, I very much want to know if you have read it?

Then I would love to give my oppinions.


"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #7 posted 02/11/17 2:01pm

2freaky4church
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As long as people understand that the Bible is different.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #8 posted 02/11/17 2:17pm

TonyVanDam

Dasein said:

TonyVanDam said:



Noah's Ark is a rip-off of the Epic Of Gilgamesh. nod


The Hebrews used other Levant folktales just like everybody else did. Calling it a "rip off" could
indicate some type of bias here.


The [false] doctrine about an everlasting hell fire is a rip-off of Dante's Inferno.

There is absolute nothing "original" about Christianity whatsoever. Everything from sun-worship, to flood stories, to stories about a savior/messiah/"god-man" are ideas that have been rip-off from tales within ancient religions & paganism before it.

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Reply #9 posted 02/11/17 7:50pm

QueenofCardboa
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2freaky4church1 said:

As long as people understand that the Bible is different.


Yes, the Bible is different, it is a collection of stories that were all written much later than the Epic of Gilgamesh.

The biblical story of the Great Flood is very similar to the Great Flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and it is possible that the Garden of Eden Story has it's roots in the Epic of Gilgamesh.


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Reply #10 posted 02/12/17 5:24am

Dasein

QueenofCardboard said:

Dasein said:


What do you think about the Legend of Gilgamesh?


First off, I very much want to know if you have read it?

Then I would love to give my oppinions.



We didn't read it, but it was featured prominently for the first two weeks of my Old Testament
class while I was in seminary.

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Reply #11 posted 02/12/17 10:28am

2freaky4church
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No, it survived because it struck more of a nerve.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #12 posted 02/12/17 10:43am

QueenofCardboa
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Dasein said:

QueenofCardboard said:


First off, I very much want to know if you have read it?

Then I would love to give my oppinions.



We didn't read it, but it was featured prominently for the first two weeks of my Old Testament
class while I was in seminary.


Cool!

I think that the most interesting part about the Epic of Gilgamesh is that we get a glimpse into the religious practices of that time.

For example they had temple prostitutes both male and female.

Also there was a custom/law that on a particular holiday (can't remember the name of the holiday), when every non-virgin woman (married or not) was legally required to sit out front of the nearest temple, and wait for some man to purchase a sexual favor from her.

And that she was required to give the money to the temple.

And she wasn't allowed to leave until she had done so.

It didn't matter how much money she was offered, she was required to accept the offer from the first bidder.

Some women had to sit and wait for a long long time before they could fulfill their duty and go home.

What do these religious practices tell us about that culture?


I am not sure if money had been invented yet, but if it had been invented I think it tells us that women weren't allowed to have money, otherwise, they would have redeemed themselves and gone home.

What do you think?




[Edited 2/12/17 11:41am]

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #13 posted 02/12/17 10:55am

2freaky4church
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Roman soldiers had young male lovers. Jesus even healed one of the young gays. Beat that.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #14 posted 02/12/17 11:47am

QueenofCardboa
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2freaky4church1 said:

Roman soldiers had young male lovers. Jesus even healed one of the young gays. Beat that.


Cool.

I guess that shows that Jesus was not homophobic.

He set a very good example for the rest of us.






"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #15 posted 02/12/17 12:21pm

seekingtruth

TonyVanDam said:



Dasein said:




TonyVanDam said:





Noah's Ark is a rip-off of the Epic Of Gilgamesh. nod




The Hebrews used other Levant folktales just like everybody else did. Calling it a "rip off" could
indicate some type of bias here.




The [false] doctrine about an everlasting hell fire is a rip-off of Dante's Inferno.

There is absolute nothing "original" about Christianity whatsoever. Everything from sun-worship, to flood stories, to stories about a savior/messiah/"god-man" are ideas that have been rip-off from tales within ancient religions & paganism before it.



Only 1 of those religions had a central figure that actually existed and satisfied over 700 prophesies though.
True genius is knowing how little
you really know.
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Reply #16 posted 02/12/17 1:02pm

2freaky4church
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Gilgy.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #17 posted 02/12/17 1:16pm

Dasein

QueenofCardboard said:

Dasein said:


We didn't read it, but it was featured prominently for the first two weeks of my Old Testament
class while I was in seminary.


Cool!

I think that the most interesting part about the Epic of Gilgamesh is that we get a glimpse into the religious practices of that time.

For example they had temple prostitutes both male and female.

Also there was a custom/law that on a particular holiday (can't remember the name of the holiday), when every non-virgin woman (married or not) was legally required to sit out front of the nearest temple, and wait for some man to purchase a sexual favor from her.

And that she was required to give the money to the temple.

And she wasn't allowed to leave until she had done so.

It didn't matter how much money she was offered, she was required to accept the offer from the first bidder.

Some women had to sit and wait for a long long time before they could fulfill their duty and go home.

What do these religious practices tell us about that culture?


I am not sure if money had been invented yet, but if it had been invented I think it tells us that women weren't allowed to have money, otherwise, they would have redeemed themselves and gone home.

What do you think?




[Edited 2/12/17 11:41am]


Think about what - the religious practices of the culture which engendered the Epic of Gilgamesh?
Prolly that men like creating patriarchal societies built upon, in some form or fashion, their desires
to bust nuts for thousands of years.

It's in the Bible too, and still practiced today; I'm looking at the Catholic Church which will not allow
women to serve as priests, which is loathsome.

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Reply #18 posted 02/12/17 1:18pm

2freaky4church
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Douglas Wilson defends it.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #19 posted 02/12/17 3:39pm

QueenofCardboa
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Dasein said:

QueenofCardboard said:


Cool!

I think that the most interesting part about the Epic of Gilgamesh is that we get a glimpse into the religious practices of that time.

For example they had temple prostitutes both male and female.

Also there was a custom/law that on a particular holiday (can't remember the name of the holiday), when every non-virgin woman (married or not) was legally required to sit out front of the nearest temple, and wait for some man to purchase a sexual favor from her.

And that she was required to give the money to the temple.

And she wasn't allowed to leave until she had done so.

It didn't matter how much money she was offered, she was required to accept the offer from the first bidder.

Some women had to sit and wait for a long long time before they could fulfill their duty and go home.

What do these religious practices tell us about that culture?


I am not sure if money had been invented yet, but if it had been invented I think it tells us that women weren't allowed to have money, otherwise, they would have redeemed themselves and gone home.

What do you think?




[Edited 2/12/17 11:41am]



Think about what - the religious practices of the culture which engendered the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Prolly that men like creating patriarchal societies built upon, in some form or fashion, their desires to bust nuts for thousands of years.

It's in the Bible too, and still practiced today; I'm looking at the Catholic Church which will not allow women to serve as priests, which is loathsome.


These customs remind me of paying tithing.

It is interesting that the women were required to do this, and it looks to me like it is really, a tax on the males that had women in their households.

It is also a tax on independet unnattached women.

I can only immagine how many husbands rushed to purchase the favors of their own wives and maid servants, before anyone else got a chance at them.

It points in the direction of women being property.



"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #20 posted 02/12/17 3:51pm

Dasein

QueenofCardboard said:

Dasein said:



Think about what - the religious practices of the culture which engendered the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Prolly that men like creating patriarchal societies built upon, in some form or fashion, their desires to bust nuts for thousands of years.

It's in the Bible too, and still practiced today; I'm looking at the Catholic Church which will not allow women to serve as priests, which is loathsome.


These customs remind me of paying tithing.

It is interesting that the women were required to do this, and it looks to me like it is really, a tax on the males that had women in their households.

It is also a tax on independet unnattached women.

I can only immagine how many husbands rushed to purchase the favors of their own wives and maid servants, before anyone else got a chance at them.

It points in the direction of women being property.




Harumph.

In my opinion, the concept of tithing is a theological argument to support lazy ass Levites tasked
with being priests as they needed state support because they didn't farm, or make a living like
the other Jews did. So, how do you get the other eleven tribes of Israel to buy into your needing
their financial support?

Tell 'em: "God says you should give me a tenth of all you earn, and you'll be blessed if you do."

But yes, much of what you spoke of speaks to patriarchy.

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Reply #21 posted 02/12/17 3:51pm

Dasein

My middle brother still tithes, the fool.

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Reply #22 posted 02/13/17 7:05am

RicoN

avatar

Dasein said:

TonyVanDam said:



Noah's Ark is a rip-off of the Epic Of Gilgamesh. nod


The Hebrews used other Levant folktales just like everybody else did. Calling it a "rip off" could
indicate some type of bias here.




Bias towards fact?

Bias againt whas Dasin?

Hamburger, Hot Dog, Root Beer, Pussy
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Reply #23 posted 02/13/17 7:07am

RicoN

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2freaky4church1 said:

Roman soldiers had young male lovers. Jesus even healed one of the young gays. Beat that.



That's what Jesus said

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Reply #24 posted 02/13/17 7:08am

RicoN

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seekingtruth said:

TonyVanDam said:


The [false] doctrine about an everlasting hell fire is a rip-off of Dante's Inferno.

There is absolute nothing "original" about Christianity whatsoever. Everything from sun-worship, to flood stories, to stories about a savior/messiah/"god-man" are ideas that have been rip-off from tales within ancient religions & paganism before it.

Only 1 of those religions had a central figure that actually existed and satisfied over 700 prophesies though.



Which one>

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Reply #25 posted 02/13/17 10:33am

QueenofCardboa
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RicoN said:

Dasein said:


The Hebrews used other Levant folktales just like everybody else did.

Calling it a "rip off" could indicate some type of bias here.



Bias towards fact?

Bias against what Dasein?


Hi Rico,

I don't think that you are being bias when you said that the stories are a rip off.

That is a valid way of looking at it.

But that kind of oversimplifies it.

Those stories were part of everyone's culture in that region.

The fact that they originated in Mesopotamia doesn't mean that they are the exclusive property of the first people to tell the stories.

We should very grateful that variations of those stories were eventually written down and preserved in the bible.

We owe much of our prosperity to the bible.

The whole reason that we started education in this country is because the Protestants thought that people should read the bible themselves, instead of relying on the priest and religious leaders to tell them what was in it.

Hence the need to teach everyone to read.

Hence the need for schools.

for more on this subject, see Sarah Vowell.

There are lots of authors that wrote about this subject, but she is the most enjoyable.

biggrin





"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #26 posted 02/14/17 8:48am

Dasein

RicoN said:

Dasein said:


The Hebrews used other Levant folktales just like everybody else did. Calling it a "rip off" could
indicate some type of bias here.




Bias towards fact?

Bias againt whas Dasin?


No, a bias towards the Bible. Be fair in assessing how the Jews looked to other literary
items from neighboring cultures when constructing their own theology. They didn't "rip
off" anybody as that term has negative connotations.

It's almost like saying the US laws "ripped off" English legal customs when assessing US
constitutional law.

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Reply #27 posted 02/15/17 9:00pm

QueenofCardboa
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Dasein said:

RicoN said:




Bias towards fact?

Bias againt whas Dasin?


No, a bias towards the Bible. Be fair in assessing how the Jews looked to other literary
items from neighboring cultures when constructing their own theology. They didn't "rip
off" anybody as that term has negative connotations.

It's almost like saying the US laws "ripped off" English legal customs when assessing US
constitutional law.


Some of the Jews, Abraham for example, came from Mesopotamia, the region where the Great Flood Story, the Garden of Eden story, The baby floating down a river in a basket that gets adopted into a royal family story, and other stories that ended up in the bible, originated.

These story are their story as much as anyone's.

Also, the Jews spent a long time in Babylon.


At first, Babylon was merely a minor stop along the Euphrates River, but it began to grow into prominence under rulers such as Hammurabi, who established an empire there in the second millennium B.C., and Nebuchadnezzar, who created a strong new empire there in the sixth century B.C. Decline set in after Alexander the Great conquered the city, and eventually it was just a dusty ruin until an upsurge in interest from European explorers in the 19th century.

History Crash Course #43: The Jews of Babylon

History Crash Course #43: The Jews of Babylon

The oldest and most stable of Jewish communities was spared the ravages of holy warriors.

by Rabbi Ken Spiro

The story of the Jews of Babylon of necessity begins some 1,000 years before our current timeline ― in the 434 BCE, when the Babylonians first marched on Israel as part of their campaign to stake claim to the former Assyrian empire. In that first foray, the Babylonians did not destroy the Temple, nor send the Jews into exile. However, they did succeed in taking into captivity 10,000 of the best and brightest Jews. (See Part 22)

While it seemed like tragedy at the time, these brilliant men, Torah scholars all, immediately established a Jewish infrastructure upon arrival in Babylon. A dozen years later when the Temple was destroyed, the Jews who were exiled to Babylon found there yeshivas, synagogues, kosher butchers, etc., all the essentials for maintaining a Jewish life. (See Part 23)

Seventy years later, when the Babylonians fell to the Persians and the Jews were permitted to return, only a small number did. Of what was probably a million Jews living in the Persian Empire, only 42,000 went back, meaning that the vast majority stayed in Babylon under Persia domination.

During the Second Temple period, up until its destruction in 70 CE, the Jewish community in Babylon ― far from the eye of the storm that raged in the Land of Israel ― continued to flourish.

Indeed, this is where the center of Jewish rabbinic authority came to rest after the Roman Empire shut down the Sanhedrin in 363 CE.

The head of the Jewish community of Babylon ― who was officially recognized by the Persian authorities ― was called Resh Galusa in Aramaic, which means Rosh Galut in Hebrew, and "Head of the Diaspora" in English.

The Resh Galusa was a person who was a direct descendant of the House of King David. Even though he was not a king in the land of Israel, he was recognized as not only being the representative of the Jewish community in Babylon but as also having noble status.

Over 1,500 year history of the Jewish community in Babylon approximately 40 people held that title, all tracing their ancestry back to King David. This was a noble line that was always preserved in Jewish history.

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Donald Trump
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Reply #28 posted 02/16/17 2:14am

RicoN

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QueenofCardboard said:

RicoN said:



Bias towards fact?

Bias against what Dasein?


Hi Rico,

I don't think that you are being bias when you said that the stories are a rip off.

That is a valid way of looking at it.

But that kind of oversimplifies it.

Those stories were part of everyone's culture in that region.

The fact that they originated in Mesopotamia doesn't mean that they are the exclusive property of the first people to tell the stories.

We should very grateful that variations of those stories were eventually written down and preserved in the bible.

We owe much of our prosperity to the bible.

The whole reason that we started education in this country is because the Protestants thought that people should read the bible themselves, instead of relying on the priest and religious leaders to tell them what was in it.

Hence the need to teach everyone to read.

Hence the need for schools.

for more on this subject, see Sarah Vowell.

There are lots of authors that wrote about this subject, but she is the most enjoyable.

biggrin







Thanks for the reccomedation.

I really like Francesca Stavrakopoulou's work too smile

Hamburger, Hot Dog, Root Beer, Pussy
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Reply #29 posted 02/19/17 4:32am

E319

TonyVanDam said:


The [false] doctrine about an everlasting hell fire is a rip-off of Dante's Inferno.

There is absolute nothing "original" about Christianity whatsoever. Everything from sun-worship, to flood stories, to stories about a savior/messiah/"god-man" are ideas that have been rip-off from tales within ancient religions & paganism before it.


@TonyVanDam: Please name me what other religion has a God who took human form on earth and lived with his people and taught them and performed miracles for them and allowed his people to beat him and torture him and crucify him in order so that he could pay for their sins and give them eternal life and who gave his people a sacrament (The Eucharist) by which they consume his body and blood and commune with him and who resurrected 3 days after his crucifixion and allowed his followers to touch him to see that he was alive in the flesh.

It's fine if you don't believe in any of it, but your comment that there is nothing original about Christianity is completely false and innacurate.

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