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Thread started 01/20/17 2:51am

FunkOnTheOne

The 'Pick & Choose' Bible

I have always been fascinated by how Christians determine what parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore. For example, often it is said tha terrorist distort the bible ignoring all the positive aspects such as love for oneanother but conversly most Christians ignore parts which condemn people to death for Homosexuality, Adultery and condeon slavery.

With Man made philosophies such as Capitalsim, Communism or Socialism you are free to accept what you want and to reject the parts you don't wish to follow. However, with the Bible apparently mean to be from God, how do you determine what bits to follow? Can you reject the parts that forbid Murder and Stealing and still be a Christian?

Whilst obviously, I would rather people be peaceful towards oneanother, are not extremists and moderate Christians all being 'selective' about the Bible?

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Reply #1 posted 01/20/17 6:10am

seekingtruth

FunkOnTheOne said:

I have always been fascinated by how Christians determine what parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore. For example, often it is said tha terrorist distort the bible ignoring all the positive aspects such as love for oneanother but conversly most Christians ignore parts which condemn people to death for Homosexuality, Adultery and condeon slavery.



With Man made philosophies such as Capitalsim, Communism or Socialism you are free to accept what you want and to reject the parts you don't wish to follow. However, with the Bible apparently mean to be from God, how do you determine what bits to follow? Can you reject the parts that forbid Murder and Stealing and still be a Christian?



Whilst obviously, I would rather people be peaceful towards oneanother, are not extremists and moderate Christians all being 'selective' about the Bible?




Nothing "selective" about what most Christians believe. The lifestyle we are supposed to live is completely founded on love. The Bible could not be more clear about that.

Some of the things you are citing are just not accurate points if you do what we as Christians are commanded to do and study the word completely.

The argument that the Bible condemns people to death for homosexuality is just not accurate and neither are the others such as condoning slavery. There is context and anyone who truly wants to understand what it says knows that.

That said....we as Christians have a horrible job making love our first priority as Jesus clearly instructed. If we could do that, there would not be nearly as much angst about our existence.
True genius is knowing how little
you really know.
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Reply #2 posted 01/20/17 6:28am

FunkOnTheOne

seekingtruth said:

FunkOnTheOne said:

I have always been fascinated by how Christians determine what parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore. For example, often it is said tha terrorist distort the bible ignoring all the positive aspects such as love for oneanother but conversly most Christians ignore parts which condemn people to death for Homosexuality, Adultery and condeon slavery.

With Man made philosophies such as Capitalsim, Communism or Socialism you are free to accept what you want and to reject the parts you don't wish to follow. However, with the Bible apparently mean to be from God, how do you determine what bits to follow? Can you reject the parts that forbid Murder and Stealing and still be a Christian?

Whilst obviously, I would rather people be peaceful towards oneanother, are not extremists and moderate Christians all being 'selective' about the Bible?

Nothing "selective" about what most Christians believe. The lifestyle we are supposed to live is completely founded on love. The Bible could not be more clear about that. Some of the things you are citing are just not accurate points if you do what we as Christians are commanded to do and study the word completely. The argument that the Bible condemns people to death for homosexuality is just not accurate and neither are the others such as condoning slavery. There is context and anyone who truly wants to understand what it says knows that. That said....we as Christians have a horrible job making love our first priority as Jesus clearly instructed. If we could do that, there would not be nearly as much angst about our existence.

I'm quite interested in how you interpret the Bible. Is it a case of the Old Testament God was wrong in what he said or is it that morals change over time.

Such passages as these two for example see very clear and difficult to interpret differently.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

Do you see God and Jesus as having a very different outlook and if so would you say morality changed over that time and could change again?


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Reply #3 posted 01/20/17 6:44am

OnlyNDaUsa

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I would say that yes many do pick and choose, so unless you are a true believer you really have little standing to be critical. It comes across as at best literary snobbery or bigotry.

Now some have made statements about the koran as calling for violence and then some compared that to the violent acts in the Bible as if they are comparable in terms of actual real world actions. If Christians were actually doing some of that stuff today on a large scale then the point would be more meaningful.

Sometimes posts like these make me wonder if some people WANT some of worst of the worst to be widely practiced today. (it is like when one person when resisting arrest is killed and another is not... what did they want them both to die?)

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #4 posted 01/20/17 7:11am

FunkOnTheOne

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I would say that yes many do pick and choose, so unless you are a true believer you really have little standing to be critical. It comes across as at best literary snobbery or bigotry.

Now some have made statements about the koran as calling for violence and then some compared that to the violent acts in the Bible as if they are comparable in terms of actual real world actions. If Christians were actually doing some of that stuff today on a large scale then the point would be more meaningful.

Sometimes posts like these make me wonder if some people WANT some of worst of the worst to be widely practiced today. (it is like when one person when resisting arrest is killed and another is not... what did they want them both to die?)

Firstly, (I wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not) I am not a believer in anyway. I was really just fascinated by the Philosophy of the situation. I very much would love to believe in something but find it very difficult just to choose the bits I agree with and ignore the ones I don't.

Your point about different religions is interesting, whilst many religious books contain violent commands it is obviously very different if you act on those commands. Let me be very clear I would love everyone to live in a peaceful world and abhor violence. However, it is interesting because if your chosen religious text commands violence and you (quite rightly) refuse to perform those violent actions you are (Again, let me be clear, I think you should not commit violence) choosing what parts you wish to follow and those you do not. I am just fascinated by how you choose to do that when this is supposedly not a man made belief system but the word of god.

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Reply #5 posted 01/20/17 7:42am

OnlyNDaUsa

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FunkOnTheOne said:

Firstly, (I wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not) I am not a believer in anyway. I was really just fascinated by the Philosophy of the situation. I very much would love to believe in something but find it very difficult just to choose the bits I agree with and ignore the ones I don't.


if you do not believe then you might as well be talking about harry potter or the hunt for red October or some self help book... and griping why some people like some parts but not others.

Your point about different religions is interesting, whilst many religious books contain violent commands it is obviously very different if you act on those commands. Let me be very clear I would love everyone to live in a peaceful world and abhor violence. However, it is interesting because if your chosen religious text commands violence and you (quite rightly) refuse to perform those violent actions you are (Again, let me be clear, I think you should not commit violence) choosing what parts you wish to follow and those you do not. I am just fascinated by how you choose to do that when this is supposedly not a man made belief system but the word of god.


unless said book had a 2nd part that creates a new standard. Like some kind of New Testament.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #6 posted 01/20/17 7:58am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

FunkOnTheOne said:

seekingtruth said:

FunkOnTheOne said: Nothing "selective" about what most Christians believe. The lifestyle we are supposed to live is completely founded on love. The Bible could not be more clear about that. Some of the things you are citing are just not accurate points if you do what we as Christians are commanded to do and study the word completely. The argument that the Bible condemns people to death for homosexuality is just not accurate and neither are the others such as condoning slavery. There is context and anyone who truly wants to understand what it says knows that. That said....we as Christians have a horrible job making love our first priority as Jesus clearly instructed. If we could do that, there would not be nearly as much angst about our existence.

I'm quite interested in how you interpret the Bible. Is it a case of the Old Testament God was wrong in what he said or is it that morals change over time.

Such passages as these two for example see very clear and difficult to interpret differently.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

Do you see God and Jesus as having a very different outlook and if so would you say morality changed over that time and could change again?


_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #7 posted 01/20/17 8:10am

FunkOnTheOne

OnlyNDaUsa said:

FunkOnTheOne said:

Firstly, (I wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not) I am not a believer in anyway. I was really just fascinated by the Philosophy of the situation. I very much would love to believe in something but find it very difficult just to choose the bits I agree with and ignore the ones I don't.


if you do not believe then you might as well be talking about harry potter or the hunt for red October or some self help book... and griping why some people like some parts but not others.

Your point about different religions is interesting, whilst many religious books contain violent commands it is obviously very different if you act on those commands. Let me be very clear I would love everyone to live in a peaceful world and abhor violence. However, it is interesting because if your chosen religious text commands violence and you (quite rightly) refuse to perform those violent actions you are (Again, let me be clear, I think you should not commit violence) choosing what parts you wish to follow and those you do not. I am just fascinated by how you choose to do that when this is supposedly not a man made belief system but the word of god.


unless said book had a 2nd part that creates a new standard. Like some kind of New Testament.

Well, firstly whether I believe or not Religion has a miassive influence on society, laws etc and so affects everyone.

Secondly, just to clarify your argument. Are you saying that either god was wrong in the Old Testament or that morality changes over time and therefore, I imagine, will change again shortly as the world is certainly very different from 2,000 years ago?

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Reply #8 posted 01/20/17 8:12am

FunkOnTheOne

.

[Edited 1/20/17 8:16am]

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Reply #9 posted 01/20/17 8:16am

FunkOnTheOne

FunkOnTheOne said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

_

Thank you, that's pretty interesting.So the former rules do not apply to people now living.

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Reply #10 posted 01/20/17 8:19am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

FunkOnTheOne said:

seekingtruth said:

FunkOnTheOne said: Nothing "selective" about what most Christians believe. The lifestyle we are supposed to live is completely founded on love. The Bible could not be more clear about that. Some of the things you are citing are just not accurate points if you do what we as Christians are commanded to do and study the word completely. The argument that the Bible condemns people to death for homosexuality is just not accurate and neither are the others such as condoning slavery. There is context and anyone who truly wants to understand what it says knows that. That said....we as Christians have a horrible job making love our first priority as Jesus clearly instructed. If we could do that, there would not be nearly as much angst about our existence.

I'm quite interested in how you interpret the Bible. Is it a case of the Old Testament God was wrong in what he said or is it that morals change over time.

Such passages as these two for example see very clear and difficult to interpret differently.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)


_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #11 posted 01/20/17 8:22am

FunkOnTheOne

FunkOnTheOne said:

I'm quite interested in how you interpret the Bible. Is it a case of the Old Testament God was wrong in what he said or is it that morals change over time.

Such passages as these two for example see very clear and difficult to interpret differently.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

OldFriends4Sale said:

_

Obviously translation can affect interpretation of the text however slaves "Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution."

Is that really like having a job today?

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Reply #12 posted 01/20/17 10:09am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

FunkOnTheOne said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

_

Obviously translation can affect interpretation of the text however slaves "Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution."

Is that really like having a job today?

_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #13 posted 01/20/17 10:26am

FunkOnTheOne

OldFriends4Sale said:

FunkOnTheOne said:

Obviously translation can affect interpretation of the text however slaves "Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution."

Is that really like having a job today?

_

There is a place in Vegas but it is voluntary and very, very high earning apparently wink

I think you are right that it is very contextual and situational, as i am sure Prince would have argued in the 90's.

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Reply #14 posted 01/20/17 10:31am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

FunkOnTheOne said:

FunkOnTheOne said:

Thank you, that's pretty interesting.So the former rules do not apply to people now living.

_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #15 posted 01/20/17 11:37am

2freaky4church
1

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We don't pick and choose. We understand some of it is true, some poetry, some alligory, some mystical language. That's why so many books have been written about it.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #16 posted 01/20/17 11:38am

2freaky4church
1

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We asked our priest why the Bible is so violent. He said the writer wrote in the violence and blamed God.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #17 posted 01/20/17 11:40am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

2freaky4church1 said:

We asked our priest why the Bible is so violent. He said the writer wrote in the violence and blamed God.

_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 01/20/17 12:56pm

2freaky4church
1

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Read the awful Passover story.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #19 posted 01/20/17 1:34pm

seekingtruth

FunkOnTheOne said:



seekingtruth said:


FunkOnTheOne said:

I have always been fascinated by how Christians determine what parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore. For example, often it is said tha terrorist distort the bible ignoring all the positive aspects such as love for oneanother but conversly most Christians ignore parts which condemn people to death for Homosexuality, Adultery and condeon slavery.



With Man made philosophies such as Capitalsim, Communism or Socialism you are free to accept what you want and to reject the parts you don't wish to follow. However, with the Bible apparently mean to be from God, how do you determine what bits to follow? Can you reject the parts that forbid Murder and Stealing and still be a Christian?





Whilst obviously, I would rather people be peaceful towards oneanother, are not extremists and moderate Christians all being 'selective' about the Bible?




Nothing "selective" about what most Christians believe. The lifestyle we are supposed to live is completely founded on love. The Bible could not be more clear about that. Some of the things you are citing are just not accurate points if you do what we as Christians are commanded to do and study the word completely. The argument that the Bible condemns people to death for homosexuality is just not accurate and neither are the others such as condoning slavery. There is context and anyone who truly wants to understand what it says knows that. That said....we as Christians have a horrible job making love our first priority as Jesus clearly instructed. If we could do that, there would not be nearly as much angst about our existence.

I'm quite interested in how you interpret the Bible. Is it a case of the Old Testament God was wrong in what he said or is it that morals change over time.



Such passages as these two for example see very clear and difficult to interpret differently.



“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)



“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)



Do you see God and Jesus as having a very different outlook and if so would you say morality changed over that time and could change again?






The Old Testament has no assertions as to how we live our lives post New Covenant. The covenant under which we now live does not allow us to kill anyone.

The teaching of Jesus was clear...love with everything and love your neighbor as yourself.

Do you know the nature of a slave in 1 Peter? Not if you are using that as some sort of proof that the Bible condones slavery. It was not captive slavery as you and I understand it in our culture.

Do you know the historical context of 1 Samuel? Not if you are using that passage proof of God's injustice.

There are a few different places in scripture where God wipes folks out. In every case, they had been warned and were doing harm to a broader society.
True genius is knowing how little
you really know.
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Reply #20 posted 01/20/17 3:04pm

CherryMoon57

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OldFriends4Sale said:

FunkOnTheOne said:

I'm quite interested in how you interpret the Bible. Is it a case of the Old Testament God was wrong in what he said or is it that morals change over time.

Such passages as these two for example see very clear and difficult to interpret differently.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

Do you see God and Jesus as having a very different outlook and if so would you say morality changed over that time and could change again?


_


Are you saying that what was considered 'immoral' by God in the OT is considered 'moral' in the NT? What about the ten commandments (killing, stealing, adultery, etc)? Wasn't that the law too?


What about God's immutability?

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #21 posted 01/20/17 4:11pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

_


Are you saying that what was considered 'immoral' by God in the OT is considered 'moral' in the NT? What about the ten commandments (killing, stealing, adultery, etc)? Wasn't that the law too?


What about God's immutability?

_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #22 posted 01/21/17 4:18am

CherryMoon57

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OldFriends4Sale said:

CherryMoon57 said:


Are you saying that what was considered 'immoral' by God in the OT is considered 'moral' in the NT? What about the ten commandments (killing, stealing, adultery, etc)? Wasn't that the law too?


What about God's immutability?

_

Thank you for taking the time to explain this so clearly for me OldFriends. smile

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #23 posted 01/21/17 7:24am

Dasein

seekingtruth said:



The Old Testament has no assertions as to how we live our lives post New Covenant.


The OT definitely has some assertions as to how Christians ought to live their lives after the
Christ event as the first Christians were not Christians in a modern sense - they were Jewish!
This means that a lot of the religious and ethical claims the first Christians were making had
to have been influenced in some large part by the Old Testament.

Anyways, is there any New Testament scripture that also claims "the Old Testatment has no
assertions as to how we live our lives post New Covenant"?



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Reply #24 posted 01/21/17 9:23am

2freaky4church
1

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Stick with good Bible teachers like NT Wright.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #25 posted 01/21/17 9:23am

2freaky4church
1

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Only is no Christian.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #26 posted 01/22/17 7:18pm

214

I like this interesting.

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Reply #27 posted 01/22/17 8:03pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Dasein said:

seekingtruth said:


The Old Testament has no assertions as to how we live our lives post New Covenant.


The OT definitely has some assertions as to how Christians ought to live their lives after the
Christ event as the first Christians were not Christians in a modern sense - they were Jewish!
This means that a lot of the religious and ethical claims the first Christians were making had
to have been influenced in some large part by the Old Testament.

Anyways, is there any New Testament scripture that also claims "the Old Testatment has no
assertions as to how we live our lives post New Covenant"?



_

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 01/23/17 12:26pm

2freaky4church
1

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Mexicans are good Christians.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #29 posted 01/23/17 12:30pm

214

2freaky4church1 said:

Mexicans are good Christians.

lol Why do you think that? Most mexican population are catholics not Christians. Actually most of them, those catholics are quite hypocrites.

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