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Thread started 04/22/15 5:22am

hausofmoi7

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The Revolution(TM) rolls on. Madonna's tribute to Thatcher

Im actually quite curious now as to what people like Madonna mean when they say revolution??

I think it has become a "buzz word" and it is being used emptily or maybe there is a real threat of revolution and that these are attempts to contain, redirect or of co-opting?

Anyway, Madonna amased some new fans with her talk of revolution and as she begins to reveal what her views of revolution are, it turns out that it is less Bolivarian and quite literally Thatcherite.

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Do you guys think it may simply be that she admires Thatcher from a feminist point of view and doesnt actually agree with her politics?

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The actual article speaks about conservatism and public figures. Which is also an interesting topic.....

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Madonna's tribute to Thatcher: why are we still shocked by rightwing pop stars?

From Rock Against Racism to Bob Dylan, there’s a pervading sense that pop is the voice of the dispossessed. And yet Madge’s shoutout to Maggie is just the latest chapter in a history of conservatism that takes in Morrissey and Ian Curtis

Crazy for you … Madonna performs at the Grammy awards in March. Photograph: John Shearer

They’re Madonna’s Rebel Hearts Club Band, and they’re the strangest gang in town.Back in January, the singer started promoting her 13th studio album with Photoshopped images of celebrated historical figures (and, erm, Homer Simpson). As long as you were a renegade of the angels, you were in, no questions asked. Step inside,Bob Marley! Welcome aboard, Martin Luther King! Here’s our secret handshake, Nelson Mandela! Despite the controversy of her laughably aligning her own struggles with King and Mandela’s, it all seemed so simple.

But earlier this week, Madonna inducted a new member – one who jarred somewhat with the rest. “If you set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything at any time, and you would achieve nothing,” she posted on Instagram, quoting a famous soundbite from Margaret Thatcher. She posted a photo of the former British prime minister, too, along with the caption: “Thank you Margaret Thatcher! #unapolegetic #rebelheart.” Unapologetic sounds about right – you don’t inspire people to throw street parties to celebrate your death by showing remorse, after all – but a rebel heart?

It looks as if Madonna has since deleted the post, probably for the same reasons thatGeri Halliwell erased a tweet she sent last April praising Thatcher: expressing admiration for the most loathed conservative figure of the past 50 years is still a PR own-goal. You only have to look at indie-rock plodders the Rifles, who took to Twitterlast week to celebrate the “balls” of Ukip (before hastily claiming their account was hacked), to see how angry everyone gets when musicians seem to be flirting with the right wing.

Given that Madonna is so hungry for success, it shouldn’t seem so bizarre that she’s a fan of Maggie. And yet, somehow, it still jars. From Rock Against Racism and Red Wedge to the Pistols and Bob Dylan and beyond, there’s a pervading sense that pop music – be it punk, rock, folk or whatever – is the voice of the dispossessed. And so we cling on to a dusty rock’n’roll dream of sticking it to the man, and are all flabbergasted when anyone in the arts starts cheerleading political figures who represent the interests of the privileged minority rather than championing something more progressive.

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But haven’t we been disappointed by pop’s strange fondness for conservatism so often that it should have ceased to shock? In 1976, Eric Clapton turned aconcert in Birmingham into a ghastly anti-immigration rally, telling fans that only a vote for Enoch Powell would help “get the foreigners out, get the wogs out, get the coons out”. Three years later, Joy Division frontman Ian Curtis – a man who was so seemingly punk and anti-establishment that he walked around Macclesfield in a donkey jacket with “HATE” painted on the back – voted for Thatcher’s Conservatives. Phil Collins vowed to leave the UK if Labour edged out the Tories in 1997; the Killers’ Brandon Flowers dined with Mitt Romney in 2011 shortly before the Republican representative ran for president; Morrissey admitted in 2013 he’d toyed with the idea of voting for Ukip.

It’s not always explicit support, either. Arctic Monkeys may not be cosying up to George Osborne, but their alleged tax avoidance suggests they know where their bread is buttered: you can pose as no-bullshit men of the people, but sheltering £1.1m in the Channel Islands is unlikely to be recommended in the socialist’s handbook. And Jay Z’s new streaming service, Tidal, has so far appeared to be little more than an elitist cabal of A-listers – including, to come full-circle, Madonna – grouping together not in the name of altruism or for a public cause, but to line their own pockets.

In that context, it’s hard to work up any shock for Madonna’s Thatcher love-in: it’s disappointing, but these days the only surprising thing about pop’s love for conservatism is that we’re surprised by it.

[Edited 4/22/15 11:02am]

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #1 posted 04/22/15 6:04am

RodeoSchro

She's doing her best to appeal to teenagers that want to rebel against their parents.

It's why Prince wore ladies underwear; the Beatles didn't cut their hair; and rappers got tattoos.

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Reply #2 posted 04/22/15 6:12am

hausofmoi7

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RodeoSchro said:

She's doing her best to appeal to teenagers that want to rebel against their parents.

It's why Prince wore ladies underwear; the Beatles didn't cut their hair; and rappers got tattoos.

Margaret Thatcher is appealing to the youth?

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #3 posted 04/22/15 6:25am

RodeoSchro

hausofmoi7 said:

RodeoSchro said:

She's doing her best to appeal to teenagers that want to rebel against their parents.

It's why Prince wore ladies underwear; the Beatles didn't cut their hair; and rappers got tattoos.

Margaret Thatcher is appealing to the youth?



Probably to hipsters, LOL. But I was mainly referring to the concept of "preaching revolution".

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Reply #4 posted 04/22/15 6:35am

maplenpg

You are right. The word revolution is being used far too much with far too little meaning behind it.

As for Thatcher - I suspect Madonna respected the fact that she was the first female prime minister and a strong woman, unafraid to speak her mind. She was everything Madonna was trying to be - a woman making it big in a male dominated world.


I'm no Maggie lover by any stretch of imagination (she's done Britain a lot of harm) but the single quote Madonna picked has some truth in it. If it had been said by anybody else but Maggie I have no doubt it would have gone by entirely unnoticed.

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Reply #5 posted 04/22/15 8:22am

hausofmoi7

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RodeoSchro said:

hausofmoi7 said:

Margaret Thatcher is appealing to the youth?



Probably to hipsters, LOL. But I was mainly referring to the concept of "preaching revolution".

OK, she missed the mark with that Margaret Thatcher reference.

- Im leaning towards her views on Revolution and Thatcher maybe seperate, but as "Mapelng" said the damage Thatcher caused ultimately affected working and poor women in Britain.

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[Edited 4/22/15 8:35am]

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #6 posted 04/22/15 8:36am

deebee

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If this isn't an opportunity for me to post Germaine Greer's wonderful takedown of the myth of Thatcher, then, by golly, I don't know what is.
http://www.theguardian.co...nniversary

As for Madge: well, anyone who was expecting more from her is somewhat deluded. She's only ever expressed an interest in pushing the kind of thin politics of individualistic expressshhunnn that grew up in the 'post-ideological' climate Thatcher helped create - and even then she's only ever decorated herself with references to causes whose time had already come, where all the heavy lifting had already been done by others. Her 'controversial' side's never been anything more than tweaking conservative America's peculiar hang-ups about sexuality - and, even then, two girls kissing here, fucking a Black guy there does not a 'radical' stance make. When it's come to doing anything that even risked looking like a more fundamental challenge - like that original cut of the 'American Life' video that might have caught some fire when the American state was busy wreaking havoc in the Middle East (though it itself was a fairly limp challenge, and she'd already qualified that it was "not about this war") - she's 'prudently' pulled her punches.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #7 posted 04/22/15 8:46am

hausofmoi7

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deebee said:

If this isn't an opportunity for me to post Germaine Greer's wonderful takedown of the myth of Thatcher, then, by golly, I don't know what is.
http://www.theguardian.co...nniversary

As for Madge: well, anyone who was expecting more from her is somewhat deluded. She's only ever expressed an interest in pushing the kind of thin politics of individualistic expressshhunnn that grew up in the 'post-ideological' climate Thatcher helped create - and even then she's only ever decorated herself with references to causes whose time had already come, where all the heavy lifting had already been done by others. Her 'controversial' side's never been anything more than tweaking conservative America's peculiar hang-ups about sexuality - and, even then, two girls kissing here, fucking a Black guy there does not a 'radical' stance make. When it's come to doing anything that even risked looking like a more fundamental challenge - like that original cut of the 'American Life' video that might have caught some fire when the American state was busy wreaking havoc in the Middle East (though it itself was a fairly limp challenge, and she'd already qualified that it was "not about this war") - she's 'prudently' pulled her punches.

Didnt expect her to lead the Bolivarian revolution into the west, I think they may have thought she was centre-left? sympathetic even? but Margaret Thatcher??!

seems like a total disconnect.

I look forward to reading the article you posted, I enjoy your contribuitions and information you provide to these discussions by the way.

.

[Edited 4/22/15 8:49am]

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #8 posted 04/22/15 8:55am

hausofmoi7

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Her revolution wasnt looking good when she got "Interpol" to chase down the people who uploaded her song to the internet in 2005 (?)

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #9 posted 04/22/15 9:23am

DarlingDiana

I don't get how the article starts off be saying there has been a pervasive current of conservatism in pop music, then says how Madonna and Geri Haliwell were essentially bullied into removing slightly affirming tweets about Margaret Thatcher. You are not allowed to be conservative in pop music, or pop culture generally. It's frowned upon. The left have always had a mob-like mentality like that. From "scabs" to people involved in the arts who dare express a view that doesn't propogate a left wing agenda.

I don't know if Madonna agrees with the views of Margaret Thatcher or not. It simply appears that she had some level of respect for the fact that Thatcher had the courage of her convictions to be unpopular. Why is it wrong to say that's an admirable personality trait? Why can't anyone ever say anything slightly positive about a right-wing female without being shouted down? And why is it the right-wing women who inspire so much hate from the left? From Thatcher and Rand to the more recent Coulter and Palin. It's always the women on the right who inspire the most hate. It's that mob-mentality again. If you are a woman, don't you dare express any right-wing views. Same with black conservatives. They aren't playing their part. How dare they.
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Reply #10 posted 04/22/15 9:49am

deebee

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DarlingDiana said:

I don't get how the article starts off be saying there has been a pervasive current of conservatism in pop music, then says how Madonna and Geri Haliwell were essentially bullied into removing slightly affirming tweets about Margaret Thatcher. You are not allowed to be conservative in pop music, or pop culture generally. It's frowned upon. The left have always had a mob-like mentality like that. From "scabs" to people involved in the arts who dare express a view that doesn't propogate a left wing agenda. I don't know if Madonna agrees with the views of Margaret Thatcher or not. It simply appears that she had some level of respect for the fact that Thatcher had the courage of her convictions to be unpopular. Why is it wrong to say that's an admirable personality trait? Why can't anyone ever say anything slightly positive about a right-wing female without being shouted down? And why is it the right-wing women who inspire so much hate from the left? From Thatcher and Rand to the more recent Coulter and Palin. It's always the women on the right who inspire the most hate. It's that mob-mentality again. If you are a woman, don't you dare express any right-wing views. Same with black conservatives. They aren't playing their part. How dare they.

You're making a bunch of wooly assertions that can never be tied down to anything - and thus never challenged. "The left" (but who, exactly? and what are they arguing?; "shouted down" (what's the difference between that and simply writing an article/comment disagreeing?); "frowned upon" for "n[o]t playing their part" (but how is that distinguishable from simply expressing disagreement with someone's position?), etc. It's almost like a kind of emotional blackmail ("If you say this, it means you have a 'mob-mentality'!") in place of an argument as to why a certain political position is wrong.

The Greer article I posted, for example, doesn't "shout" (how would an article even 'shout', anyway?), but rather it dismantles the PR narrative Mrs Thatcher's people put across of her as an 'independent woman', by comparing it with the facts of her time in office. (I'm not even sure Greer would consider herself on the 'Left', anyway.) The Guardian piece in the OP is hardly about "scabs" and "hate" and "shouting down." If anything, it sounds like a bit of a shrug that anyone's surprised. So, where's all this drama playing out?

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #11 posted 04/22/15 1:55pm

KoolEaze

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DarlingDiana said:

I don't get how the article starts off be saying there has been a pervasive current of conservatism in pop music, then says how Madonna and Geri Haliwell were essentially bullied into removing slightly affirming tweets about Margaret Thatcher. You are not allowed to be conservative in pop music, or pop culture generally. It's frowned upon. The left have always had a mob-like mentality like that. From "scabs" to people involved in the arts who dare express a view that doesn't propogate a left wing agenda. I don't know if Madonna agrees with the views of Margaret Thatcher or not. It simply appears that she had some level of respect for the fact that Thatcher had the courage of her convictions to be unpopular. Why is it wrong to say that's an admirable personality trait? Why can't anyone ever say anything slightly positive about a right-wing female without being shouted down? And why is it the right-wing women who inspire so much hate from the left? From Thatcher and Rand to the more recent Coulter and Palin. It's always the women on the right who inspire the most hate. It's that mob-mentality again. If you are a woman, don't you dare express any right-wing views. Same with black conservatives. They aren't playing their part. How dare they.

Agree.

However, there are many examples of conservative pop musicians who openly showed support for conservative or even right wing politicians ( Eric Clapton probably being the most notorious one who still sees nothing wrong with what he said about British people of Jamaican, African or Middle Eastern descent).

Phil Collins, the Ramones, Metallica....all very much conservative.

And I remember the flack that the Dixie Chicks got during the Bush years.

Here in Germany there are bands who openly flirt with rightwing ideas and imagery, and they are number one in the charts.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #12 posted 04/22/15 2:01pm

KoolEaze

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maplenpg said:

You are right. The word revolution is being used far too much with far too little meaning behind it.

As for Thatcher - I suspect Madonna respected the fact that she was the first female prime minister and a strong woman, unafraid to speak her mind. She was everything Madonna was trying to be - a woman making it big in a male dominated world.


I'm no Maggie lover by any stretch of imagination (she's done Britain a lot of harm) but the single quote Madonna picked has some truth in it. If it had been said by anybody else but Maggie I have no doubt it would have gone by entirely unnoticed.

Good post.

I guess Madonna looks at Maggie from a female/feminist point of view, i.e a woman who is or was "strong" and dominant and went her own way etc. etc

I doubt that she would´ve posted what she posted if she were more familiar with Maggie Thatcher´s policies.

It´s strange how women like Thatcher, Angela Merkel or former Turkish prime minister Tansu Ciller are celebrated as heroes of feminism when what they stood for had very little to do with feminism. Most of them surely DID achieve something in a male dominated world but I think they did so by still obeying the rules that were set by a chauvinistic, male dominated patriarchy instead of truly championing feminist ideas and ideals. Like making it in a man´s world by trying to be more manly than most men, while at the same time forgetting about their feminine qualities.

Sorry if this makes me sound sexist, it´s not my intention.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #13 posted 04/22/15 2:11pm

KoolEaze

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Madonna looks good in that pic. Pretty remarkable considering she´s pushing 60.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #14 posted 04/22/15 9:20pm

DarlingDiana

deebee said:



DarlingDiana said:


I don't get how the article starts off be saying there has been a pervasive current of conservatism in pop music, then says how Madonna and Geri Haliwell were essentially bullied into removing slightly affirming tweets about Margaret Thatcher. You are not allowed to be conservative in pop music, or pop culture generally. It's frowned upon. The left have always had a mob-like mentality like that. From "scabs" to people involved in the arts who dare express a view that doesn't propogate a left wing agenda. I don't know if Madonna agrees with the views of Margaret Thatcher or not. It simply appears that she had some level of respect for the fact that Thatcher had the courage of her convictions to be unpopular. Why is it wrong to say that's an admirable personality trait? Why can't anyone ever say anything slightly positive about a right-wing female without being shouted down? And why is it the right-wing women who inspire so much hate from the left? From Thatcher and Rand to the more recent Coulter and Palin. It's always the women on the right who inspire the most hate. It's that mob-mentality again. If you are a woman, don't you dare express any right-wing views. Same with black conservatives. They aren't playing their part. How dare they.

You're making a bunch of wooly assertions that can never be tied down to anything - and thus never challenged. "The left" (but who, exactly? and what are they arguing?; "shouted down" (what's the difference between that and simply writing an article/comment disagreeing?); "frowned upon" for "n[o]t playing their part" (but how is that distinguishable from simply expressing disagreement with someone's position?), etc. It's almost like a kind of emotional blackmail ("If you say this, it means you have a 'mob-mentality'!") in place of an argument as to why a certain political position is wrong.

The Greer article I posted, for example, doesn't "shout" (how would an article even 'shout', anyway?), but rather it dismantles the PR narrative Mrs Thatcher's people put across of her as an 'independent woman', by comparing it with the facts of her time in office. (I'm not even sure Greer would consider herself on the 'Left', anyway.) The Guardian piece in the OP is hardly about "scabs" and "hate" and "shouting down." If anything, it sounds like a bit of a shrug that anyone's surprised. So, where's all this drama playing out?



But I'm not arguing that a certain political position is wrong, at least not in this instance. I'm saying there's an ideological majority (better word than "mob"?) that pervades the arts, pop culture, academia, and I would probably even say the media (though there is obviously a strong conservative current as well) and it's very hostile to dissenting views. The reason I bring up scabs is because it demonstrates where this mob mentality comes from. The modern left has its roots in he worldwide socialist/labor movement. When they striked, anyone who didn't want to strike, who wanted to go back to work, incurred the wrath of the mob. Maybe for good reason in that case. Not saying there wasn't good reason in those situation to enforce solidarity. But it's a similar mindset that says if you are a female you have to stand in solidarity with the generally left-wing feminist movement. If you don't, you incur more hate than any white male who doesn't toe that line.
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Reply #15 posted 04/22/15 9:27pm

DarlingDiana

KoolEaze said:



DarlingDiana said:


I don't get how the article starts off be saying there has been a pervasive current of conservatism in pop music, then says how Madonna and Geri Haliwell were essentially bullied into removing slightly affirming tweets about Margaret Thatcher. You are not allowed to be conservative in pop music, or pop culture generally. It's frowned upon. The left have always had a mob-like mentality like that. From "scabs" to people involved in the arts who dare express a view that doesn't propogate a left wing agenda. I don't know if Madonna agrees with the views of Margaret Thatcher or not. It simply appears that she had some level of respect for the fact that Thatcher had the courage of her convictions to be unpopular. Why is it wrong to say that's an admirable personality trait? Why can't anyone ever say anything slightly positive about a right-wing female without being shouted down? And why is it the right-wing women who inspire so much hate from the left? From Thatcher and Rand to the more recent Coulter and Palin. It's always the women on the right who inspire the most hate. It's that mob-mentality again. If you are a woman, don't you dare express any right-wing views. Same with black conservatives. They aren't playing their part. How dare they.

Agree.


However, there are many examples of conservative pop musicians who openly showed support for conservative or even right wing politicians ( Eric Clapton probably being the most notorious one who still sees nothing wrong with what he said about British people of Jamaican, African or Middle Eastern descent).


Phil Collins, the Ramones, Metallica....all very much conservative.


And I remember the flack that the Dixie Chicks got during the Bush years.


Here in Germany there are bands who openly flirt with rightwing ideas and imagery, and they are number one in the charts.



Only Johnny Ramone expressed conservative views, and it made him unpopular in that regard. The same goes for Eric Clapton. I think that's were the admiration for Margaret Thatcher's strong convictions even though she knew it made her unpopular (whether that was Conservative myth or not) comes from.

The Dixie Chicks are different. The modern Country Music industry is a different animal. I'm fact, you can see what I'm talking about, but in the other direction, in the country music industry. The mob is Christian/conservatives and the dissenters are liberals/progressives.
[Edited 4/22/15 21:28pm]
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Reply #16 posted 04/23/15 5:37am

XxAxX

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imo madonna is using margaret thatcher as a general symbol for female empowerment, which is long overdue. unequal pay, benefits and societal suppression based on gender is an issue which persists, despite legislation and longterm efforts to eradicate the disparities between genders.

.

while the term 'revolution' may not be competely appropriate, unless and until females are provided equal opoprtunities and compensation, there are those who will go to great lengths to bring change to the current system.

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Reply #17 posted 04/23/15 6:24am

hausofmoi7

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XxAxX said:

imo madonna is using margaret thatcher as a general symbol for female empowerment, which is long overdue. unequal pay, benefits and societal suppression based on gender is an issue which persists, despite legislation and longterm efforts to eradicate the disparities between genders.

.

while the term 'revolution' may not be competely appropriate, unless and until females are provided equal opoprtunities and compensation, there are those who will go to great lengths to bring change to the current system.

I think the pushback or why people felt it jarring is that social revolution would ultimately mean that everyone will be equal in the end and a more fairer society.

.

From my point of view conservatism and individualism is at odds with all forms of equal rights movement.

Because if only one of us makes it, it really doesnt help the rest.

They are still in the same position and the only conselation is that now someone similar to you is your oppressor.

It's a vicarious form of equal rights

.

Also important to note Madonna hasnt said if her admiration for Thatcher was from a feminist point of view or political (wider) one.

She just said "Thank you"- but as a woman or billionaire?

We are assuming it must be a feminist equal rights point of view, because that is the only positive thing I can really think of to come out of Thatcher reign.

.

[Edited 4/23/15 7:17am]

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #18 posted 04/23/15 8:51am

maplenpg

hausofmoi7 said:

XxAxX said:

imo madonna is using margaret thatcher as a general symbol for female empowerment, which is long overdue. unequal pay, benefits and societal suppression based on gender is an issue which persists, despite legislation and longterm efforts to eradicate the disparities between genders.

.

while the term 'revolution' may not be competely appropriate, unless and until females are provided equal opoprtunities and compensation, there are those who will go to great lengths to bring change to the current system.

I think the pushback or why people felt it jarring is that social revolution would ultimately mean that everyone will be equal in the end and a more fairer society.

.

From my point of view conservatism and individualism is at odds with all forms of equal rights movement.

Because if only one of us makes it, it really doesnt help the rest.

They are still in the same position and the only conselation is that now someone similar to you is your oppressor.

It's a vicarious form of equal rights

.

Also important to note Madonna hasnt said if her admiration for Thatcher was from a feminist point of view or political (wider) one.

She just said "Thank you"- but as a woman or billionaire?

We are assuming it must be a feminist equal rights point of view, because that is the only positive thing I can really think of to come out of Thatcher reign.

.

[Edited 4/23/15 7:17am]

Th problem with the bit I've highlighted in bold is that you start to talk about communism. I guess in China or North Korea everything is equal. Right?


I think Madonna probably would have admired Thatcher both as a feminist and politician in the eighties (I've no idea now). Let's not forget if you were doing well for yourself in the eighties then Thatcher was the greatest. Sod the ones that weren't doing so well. It's really only since the mid-nineties that I've heard former conservatives speak ill of Thatcher. Some still won't.

[Edited 4/23/15 8:52am]

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Reply #19 posted 04/23/15 10:11am

hausofmoi7

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maplenpg said:

hausofmoi7 said:

I think the pushback or why people felt it jarring is that social revolution would ultimately mean that everyone will be equal in the end and a more fairer society.

.

From my point of view conservatism and individualism is at odds with all forms of equal rights movement.

Because if only one of us makes it, it really doesnt help the rest.

They are still in the same position and the only conselation is that now someone similar to you is your oppressor.

It's a vicarious form of equal rights

.

Also important to note Madonna hasnt said if her admiration for Thatcher was from a feminist point of view or political (wider) one.

She just said "Thank you"- but as a woman or billionaire?

We are assuming it must be a feminist equal rights point of view, because that is the only positive thing I can really think of to come out of Thatcher reign.

.

[Edited 4/23/15 7:17am]

Th problem with the bit I've highlighted in bold is that you start to talk about communism. I guess in China or North Korea everything is equal. Right?


I think Madonna probably would have admired Thatcher both as a feminist and politician in the eighties (I've no idea now). Let's not forget if you were doing well for yourself in the eighties then Thatcher was the greatest. Sod the ones that weren't doing so well. It's really only since the mid-nineties that I've heard former conservatives speak ill of Thatcher. Some still won't.

[Edited 4/23/15 8:52am]

Didnt realize that part was communist I thought it was basic decency.

In a individualistic capaitalist society equal rights really just ends up being symbollic.

We seem to be fighting for our right to be able to oppress other people like our oppressors did to us.

democracy?

We have simply voted for our tyranny and somehow that makes us more free because we have put the cuffs on ourself.

pure democracy is what i thought i was expressing.

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #20 posted 04/23/15 10:14am

maplenpg

hausofmoi7 said:

maplenpg said:

Th problem with the bit I've highlighted in bold is that you start to talk about communism. I guess in China or North Korea everything is equal. Right?


I think Madonna probably would have admired Thatcher both as a feminist and politician in the eighties (I've no idea now). Let's not forget if you were doing well for yourself in the eighties then Thatcher was the greatest. Sod the ones that weren't doing so well. It's really only since the mid-nineties that I've heard former conservatives speak ill of Thatcher. Some still won't.

[Edited 4/23/15 8:52am]

Didnt realize that part was communist I thought it was basic decency.

In a individualistic capaitalist society equal rights really just ends up being symbollic.

We seem to be fighting for our right to be able to oppress other people like our oppressors did to us.

democracy?

We have simply voted for our tyranny and somehow that makes us more free because we have put the cuffs on ourself.

pure democracy is what i thought i was expressing.

Okay -I misunderstood. My mistake.

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Reply #21 posted 04/23/15 11:14am

SquirrelMeat

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DarlingDiana said:

I don't get how the article starts off be saying there has been a pervasive current of conservatism in pop music, then says how Madonna and Geri Haliwell were essentially bullied into removing slightly affirming tweets about Margaret Thatcher. You are not allowed to be conservative in pop music, or pop culture generally. It's frowned upon. The left have always had a mob-like mentality like that. From "scabs" to people involved in the arts who dare express a view that doesn't propogate a left wing agenda. I don't know if Madonna agrees with the views of Margaret Thatcher or not. It simply appears that she had some level of respect for the fact that Thatcher had the courage of her convictions to be unpopular. Why is it wrong to say that's an admirable personality trait? Why can't anyone ever say anything slightly positive about a right-wing female without being shouted down? And why is it the right-wing women who inspire so much hate from the left? From Thatcher and Rand to the more recent Coulter and Palin. It's always the women on the right who inspire the most hate. It's that mob-mentality again. If you are a woman, don't you dare express any right-wing views. Same with black conservatives. They aren't playing their part. How dare they.

Couldn't have put it better.

It's as if personal aspiration it not allowed to have a part in 'revolution' and pop. Ironically, most of the mega rich pop stars were the most focussed and self centred in their careers. They seem to grow a new 'social conscience' once they have a the first few million in the bank.

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Forums > Politics & Religion > The Revolution(TM) rolls on. Madonna's tribute to Thatcher