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Thread started 07/16/12 8:58pm

TonyVanDam

ONCE AND FOR ALL, Who wrote the Holy Bible AND Holy Quran?!?

On two occasions in previous threads, Greycap asked the question, "Who wrote the Bible?". Thus far, no one had the courage to answer his honest question. And given that I've recently became an agnostic, now is the right time to have a thread like this so we can finally find out the ugly truth once and for all. With that said.....

Who really wrote the goddamn Holy Bible AND Holy Quran?!? And why?

disbelief hmmm neutral

[Edited 7/16/12 20:58pm]

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Reply #1 posted 07/16/12 9:06pm

TonyVanDam

Given that I found out recently that Yahushua Ben Pandira ("Jesus Christ") was a mythical AND fictional character based upon other messiahs from the ancient religions (mostly Horus & Mithra) as well as Julius Caesar, it is very possible that most OR all of the stories within the Bible were also rip-offs of other stories from the ancient religions as well.

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Reply #2 posted 07/17/12 2:17am

duccichucka

Dude, nothing in this forum is "once and for all."

Jews wrote the Bible. I don't know anything about the Quran.

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Reply #3 posted 07/17/12 5:20am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

these battles really get tired, there is one every month

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #4 posted 07/17/12 6:50am

Beautifulstarr
123

avatar

duccichucka said:

Dude, nothing in this forum is "once and for all."

Jews wrote the Bible. I don't know anything about the Quran.

Mohammed? shrug rolleyes

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Reply #5 posted 07/17/12 7:30am

RodeoSchro

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

these battles really get tired, there is one every month

It's a War on Christianity! And it's been going on for a long, long time!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #6 posted 07/17/12 7:36am

namepeace

TonyVanDam said:

Given that I found out recently that Yahushua Ben Pandira ("Jesus Christ") was a mythical AND fictional character based upon other messiahs from the ancient religions (mostly Horus & Mithra) as well as Julius Caesar, it is very possible that most OR all of the stories within the Bible were also rip-offs of other stories from the ancient religions as well.

No, you decided to accept those theories. You didn't "find it out."

TweetyV6 floated that whole Julius Caesar thing, and you can search my responses to that if you'd like, but it is silly.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #7 posted 07/17/12 9:29am

morningsong

Wasn't it William Shakespeare who wrote the Bible? That was a theory floating around (even on the org) for a while. How come nobody mentions that anymore?

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Reply #8 posted 07/17/12 11:31am

TonyVanDam

duccichucka said:

Dude, nothing in this forum is "once and for all."

Jews wrote the Bible. I don't know anything about the Quran.

And were any of these stories documented as "historic" outside of the Old Testament canon? Why or Why not?

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Reply #9 posted 07/17/12 11:32am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

TonyVanDam said:

Given that I found out recently that Yahushua Ben Pandira ("Jesus Christ") was a mythical AND fictional character based upon other messiahs from the ancient religions (mostly Horus & Mithra) as well as Julius Caesar, it is very possible that most OR all of the stories within the Bible were also rip-offs of other stories from the ancient religions as well.

sorry but whether someone believes in God or not, this statement just sound warped lol

I mean do you really care who wrote it or is this another thread we will have to hose water on

and you have the nerve to say 'You recently became...' man you're still trying to figure you life out, keep that private. That's the stuff that should be private lol work it out

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #10 posted 07/17/12 11:32am

TonyVanDam

OldFriends4Sale said:

these battles really get tired, there is one every month

Go visit the Vigilant Citizen forums and you will see battles like THIS every week! lol

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Reply #11 posted 07/17/12 11:36am

TonyVanDam

RodeoSchro said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

these battles really get tired, there is one every month

It's a War on Christianity! And it's been going on for a long, long time!

Given THAT^ is the third or fourth time that you keep saying that, are you implying that "Christianity" is a sacred cow and it should never be questioned at all? Are you also implying that you're more comfortable for Judaism & Islam to get questioned instead?

If you're that culturally biased Rodeo, just saying it already. neutral

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Reply #12 posted 07/17/12 11:42am

TonyVanDam

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

Given that I found out recently that Yahushua Ben Pandira ("Jesus Christ") was a mythical AND fictional character based upon other messiahs from the ancient religions (mostly Horus & Mithra) as well as Julius Caesar, it is very possible that most OR all of the stories within the Bible were also rip-offs of other stories from the ancient religions as well.

No, you decided to accept those theories. You didn't "find it out."

TweetyV6 floated that whole Julius Caesar thing, and you can search my responses to that if you'd like, but it is silly.

Oh yes I did found out that Christ is a myth. But that is not the worst part. The worst part that whenever you find a biography on Tiberus Caesar (THE Roman Emporer that was on that coin when Christ said "given Caesar what is Caesar's"), there is no mentioning of "Jesus Christ" OR "Yahushua Ben Pandira" NOT ONCE in the entire biography.

Why is that if Christ is suppose to have been a real life historical figure?

Learn to do you own research before you dare falsely accusing me for "accepting theories", Namepeace. wink

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Reply #13 posted 07/17/12 11:51am

TonyVanDam

morningsong said:

Wasn't it William Shakespeare who wrote the Bible? That was a theory floating around (even on the org) for a while. How come nobody mentions that anymore?

Shakespeare was definitely one of translators hired by King James to create the KJV bible translation. nod Shakespeare's name in secretly coded in Psalms 46:3 & 46:9.

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Reply #14 posted 07/17/12 11:57am

morningsong

TonyVanDam said:

morningsong said:

Wasn't it William Shakespeare who wrote the Bible? That was a theory floating around (even on the org) for a while. How come nobody mentions that anymore?

Shakespeare was definitely one of translators hired by King James to create the KJV bible translation. nod Shakespeare's name in secretly coded in Psalms 46:3 & 46:9.

You need to study up on William Shakespeare.

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Reply #15 posted 07/17/12 11:58am

TonyVanDam

OldFriends4Sale said:

TonyVanDam said:

Given that I found out recently that Yahushua Ben Pandira ("Jesus Christ") was a mythical AND fictional character based upon other messiahs from the ancient religions (mostly Horus & Mithra) as well as Julius Caesar, it is very possible that most OR all of the stories within the Bible were also rip-offs of other stories from the ancient religions as well.

sorry but whether someone believes in God or not, this statement just sound warped lol

I mean do you really care who wrote it or is this another thread we will have to hose water on

and you have the nerve to say 'You recently became...' man you're still trying to figure you life out, keep that private. That's the stuff that should be private lol work it out

Given that I'm one of the main conspiracy researchers in the org, yes I do care who wrote it. And I definitely care to find out about the motives behind to creation of the Bible AND Quran.

And lets not forget that it was you (as a mod) that suggested to Grey that "who wrote the bible" should be a thread in itself. Well we know Grey never gotten around to do and he doesn't have to now because I'm doing it! wink

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Reply #16 posted 07/17/12 12:21pm

RodeoSchro

avatar

TonyVanDam said:

RodeoSchro said:

It's a War on Christianity! And it's been going on for a long, long time!

Given THAT^ is the third or fourth time that you keep saying that, are you implying that "Christianity" is a sacred cow and it should never be questioned at all? Are you also implying that you're more comfortable for Judaism & Islam to get questioned instead?

If you're that culturally biased Rodeo, just saying it already. neutral

This is war!

Your side is the only side that's fighting in it, though. And you're STILL losing, LOL.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #17 posted 07/17/12 12:22pm

RodeoSchro

avatar

Tony, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It will answer your question re: the New Testament.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #18 posted 07/17/12 12:29pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

RodeoSchro said:

TonyVanDam said:

Given THAT^ is the third or fourth time that you keep saying that, are you implying that "Christianity" is a sacred cow and it should never be questioned at all? Are you also implying that you're more comfortable for Judaism & Islam to get questioned instead?

If you're that culturally biased Rodeo, just saying it already. neutral

This is war!

Your side is the only side that's fighting in it, though. And you're STILL losing, LOL.

I worked with a guy who would make a big deal about not believing in God (to each his own)

I asked him why he said because when his father died the Catholic church would not bury his father(perform the service etc)

I asked "So God isn't real because your mad?"

I asked was his father a practicing catholic or did he go to mass etc, he said No

So I said why would you want your father disrespected by people handling him, who he wanted nothing to do with ??

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #19 posted 07/17/12 12:39pm

duccichucka

Beautifulstarr123 said:

duccichucka said:

Dude, nothing in this forum is "once and for all."

Jews wrote the Bible. I don't know anything about the Quran.

Mohammed? shrug rolleyes

Don't roll your eyes at me!

Like I said, I don't know who wrote the Quran; the Pentateuch/Torah was

long attributed to Moses and bible scholarship and exegetical work has

determined that was entirely false. It could be the same with the Quran.

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Reply #20 posted 07/17/12 12:48pm

TonyVanDam

RodeoSchro said:

TonyVanDam said:

Given THAT^ is the third or fourth time that you keep saying that, are you implying that "Christianity" is a sacred cow and it should never be questioned at all? Are you also implying that you're more comfortable for Judaism & Islam to get questioned instead?

If you're that culturally biased Rodeo, just saying it already. neutral

This is war!

Your side is the only side that's fighting in it, though. And you're STILL losing, LOL.

The only "side" that I'm on is MY side. neutral

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Reply #21 posted 07/17/12 1:01pm

TonyVanDam

RodeoSchro said:

Tony, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It will answer your question re: the New Testament.

......and you can check out a few of my sources that dares to call out the fakeness within "Christianity":

Pagan Origins Of The Christ Myth by Greg Kane

http://www.pocm.info/

Jesus Never Existed by Kenneth Humphreys

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

Truth Be Known by D.M. Murdock

http://truthbeknown.com/

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Reply #22 posted 07/17/12 1:04pm

TonyVanDam

duccichucka said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Mohammed? shrug rolleyes

Don't roll your eyes at me!

Like I said, I don't know who wrote the Quran; the Pentateuch/Torah was

long attributed to Moses and bible scholarship and exegetical work has

determined that was entirely false. It could be the same with the Quran.

And THAT is why a thread like this is needed. nod

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Reply #23 posted 07/17/12 1:04pm

duccichucka

TonyVanDam said:

duccichucka said:

Dude, nothing in this forum is "once and for all."

Jews wrote the Bible. I don't know anything about the Quran.

And were any of these stories documented as "historic" outside of the Old Testament canon? Why or Why not?

How you, as someone living in 2012, conceive of history; and how that history is

to be documented, expressed, conceived and re-told is entirely different than

a Jewish scribe living in the Levant thousands of years ago. My point is that until

you've a beginning understanding of how the Bible was constructed and why it

was constructed, you've a limited understanding of how the Bible functions.

The "histories" documented in the Bible serve a different point than how we docu-

ment history today. Until you've seen the distinction here, you'll forever be

stuck in this "Yeah, but the Bible ain't historical!" frame of mind, which ain't

how the Hebrews approached history. So, the stories in the Bible are mostly

historically inaccurate. But the Bible does not offer itself as a veritable textbook.

And another thing about "historic" - what does that mean? That what actually

happened yesterday is recorded objectively by a human? I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E.

Humans cannot completely record history with disinterest. If history was handed

down out of the sky by an impartial being (who we could prove existed and/or

was in fact impartial) then we could treat the results of history as truly impartial,

truly accurate and truly factual. This is I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E. I punched my brother

yesterday in front of three of our friends. You want a history of that punch? You're

gonna get five stories with all of them suggesting theirs is the "truth." My friend

LeRoy hates my brother so his version may be skewed. My brother's friend,

Jabari does not like LeRoy so his version may be skewed. My friend D'Brickashaw

does not like the fact that my brother is gay, so maybe his version is skewed.

You get my point?.....

So, how many times I gotta say this? .....

THE BIBLE IS NOT A TEXTBOOK AND THE JEWS WHO WROTE DID NOT WRITE IT

AS A TEXTBOOK; THEY WROTE THE BIBLE AS A FAITH BOOK; AND IT IS THE STORY

OF HOW THE JEWS CAME TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR GOD ESTABLISHED THE EARTH

AND THEIR CULTURE; IT IS AN ALLEGORICAL LOVE STORY BETWEEN YHWH AND ISRAEL.

THE BIBLE IS NOT A HISTORY BOOK OR A SCIENCE BOOK. IT WAS NEVER INTENDED
TO BE EITHER AND IT DOES NOT PURPORT ITSELF TO BE AS SUCH. IT IS PEOPLE
WHO HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF BIBLICAL TRUTHS AND ITS CONSTRUCTION AND
FUNCTION (THAT IS, FUNDAMENTALISTS/LITERALISTS OR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE
BIBLE IS INERRANT) WHO PROVIDE FODDER FOR BIBLICAL CRITICISMS. FOR EXAMPLE,

THE STORY OF GENESIS IS NOT LITERAL AND NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY; THE
UNIVERSE WAS NOT CREATED IN 6 DAYS. THAT IS RIDICULOUS. ALL THAT GENESIS
IS PURPORTING IS THAT ISRAEL BELIEVED THAT GOD, NOT ANY HUMAN, BUT THAT
THEIR GOD IS THE CREATOR OF THE EARTH. THE 6 DAY PART IS SIMPLY HOW
MYTHS AND FOLKLORE WERE THE POPULAR CONDUITS OF KNOWLEDGE FOR LEVANT
CULTURES 4,000 YEARS AGO. IF YOU LIVED IN THIS PARTICULARITY, YOU TOO,

WOULD USE MYTHS AND FOLKLORE TO EXPLAIN HOW THINGS CAME TO BE AND
HOW TO BE HISTORICAL.

I hope the rant above answers your question about the Bible, Tony. So I don't wanna

see you talking about "is the bible historical? why or why not? - and who wrote it?" any-

more because I just laid it all out for ya!

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Reply #24 posted 07/17/12 1:06pm

duccichucka

TonyVanDam said:

duccichucka said:

Don't roll your eyes at me!

Like I said, I don't know who wrote the Quran; the Pentateuch/Torah was

long attributed to Moses and bible scholarship and exegetical work has

determined that was entirely false. It could be the same with the Quran.

And THAT is why a thread like this is needed. nod

Nobody in this forum, at least I think this is the case, is a trained biblical scholar

or exegete. We all are experts in Wiki-ism and Googleology. If you want the

goofy response, ask us. If you want the scholarly response, go get a book.

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Reply #25 posted 07/17/12 1:10pm

TonyVanDam

duccichucka said:

TonyVanDam said:

And were any of these stories documented as "historic" outside of the Old Testament canon? Why or Why not?

How you, as someone living in 2012, conceive of history; and how that history is

to be documented, expressed, conceived and re-told is entirely different than

a Jewish scribe living in the Levant thousands of years ago. My point is that until

you've a beginning understanding of how the Bible was constructed and why it

was constructed, you've a limited understanding of how the Bible functions.

The "histories" documented in the Bible serve a different point than how we docu-

ment history today. Until you've seen the distinction here, you'll forever be

stuck in this "Yeah, but the Bible ain't historical!" frame of mind, which ain't

how the Hebrews approached history. So, the stories in the Bible are mostly

historically inaccurate. But the Bible does not offer itself as a veritable textbook.

And another thing about "historic" - what does that mean? That what actually

happened yesterday is recorded objectively by a human? I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E.

Humans cannot completely record history with disinterest. If history was handed

down out of the sky by an impartial being (who we could prove existed and/or

was in fact impartial) then we could treat the results of history as truly impartial,

truly accurate and truly factual. This is I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E. I punched my brother

yesterday in front of three of our friends. You want a history of that punch? You're

gonna get five stories with all of them suggesting theirs is the "truth." My friend

LeRoy hates my brother so his version may be skewed. My brother's friend,

Jabari does not like LeRoy so his version may be skewed. My friend D'Brickashaw

does not like the fact that my brother is gay, so maybe his version is skewed.

You get my point?.....

So, how many times I gotta say this? .....

THE BIBLE IS NOT A TEXTBOOK AND THE JEWS WHO WROTE DID NOT WRITE IT

AS A TEXTBOOK; THEY WROTE THE BIBLE AS A FAITH BOOK; AND IT IS THE STORY

OF HOW THE JEWS CAME TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR GOD ESTABLISHED THE EARTH

AND THEIR CULTURE; IT IS AN ALLEGORICAL LOVE STORY BETWEEN YHWH AND ISRAEL.

THE BIBLE IS NOT A HISTORY BOOK OR A SCIENCE BOOK. IT WAS NEVER INTENDED
TO BE EITHER AND IT DOES NOT PURPORT ITSELF TO BE AS SUCH. IT IS PEOPLE
WHO HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF BIBLICAL TRUTHS AND ITS CONSTRUCTION AND
FUNCTION (THAT IS, FUNDAMENTALISTS/LITERALISTS OR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE
BIBLE IS INERRANT) WHO PROVIDE FODDER FOR BIBLICAL CRITICISMS. FOR EXAMPLE,

THE STORY OF GENESIS IS NOT LITERAL AND NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY; THE
UNIVERSE WAS NOT CREATED IN 6 DAYS. THAT IS RIDICULOUS. ALL THAT GENESIS
IS PURPORTING IS THAT ISRAEL BELIEVED THAT GOD, NOT ANY HUMAN, BUT THAT
THEIR GOD IS THE CREATOR OF THE EARTH. THE 6 DAY PART IS SIMPLY HOW
MYTHS AND FOLKLORE WERE THE POPULAR CONDUITS OF KNOWLEDGE FOR LEVANT
CULTURES 4,000 YEARS AGO. IF YOU LIVED IN THIS PARTICULARITY, YOU TOO,

WOULD USE MYTHS AND FOLKLORE TO EXPLAIN HOW THINGS CAME TO BE AND
HOW TO BE HISTORICAL.

I hope the rant above answers your question about the Bible, Tony. So I don't wanna

see you talking about "is the bible historical? why or why not? - and who wrote it?" any-

more because I just laid it all out for ya!

I have THIS book that explains how the biblical canon was put together, including which books made the final cut of the OT & NT canon and which books didn't:

[img:$uid]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CrMh%2Bm3pL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/img:$uid]

And there was a conspiracy behind the motives of the Book of Enoch, Jasher, & Jubilees not making the final cut of the OT canon.

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Reply #26 posted 07/17/12 1:32pm

duccichucka

Hmm...not familiar with him. And my mind is drawing a blank on the

book we used for a class I took at Boston College on Genesis - II Kings.

My Old Testament professor was Christopher Frechette who studied

with Richard J. Clifford. My New Testament professor was Thomas

Stegmanwho studied with Luke Timothy Johnson and Daniel Harrington.

Yeah, it's heavy on the Jesuit side, but the Jesuits don't play around when it

comes to being extraordinarily trained. (I am not Catholic by the way, but I

choose to attend Boston College because I knew the Jesuits would kick my ass

intellectually).

But in order to get a good grasp of Biblical scholarship, you need to have

someone who is trained in Mid East languages, Greek, Aramaic and other

Semitic languages; you need someone who defends the inerrancy of the

Bible; but you also need a scholar who rejects Biblical inerrancy; and most

importantly, YOU MUST HAVE A JEWISH COMMENTARY AND SCHOLARSHIP
AS WELL.

The Bible is a Jewish book: who else can explain what it means? Get something

by Jon Levenson, who teaches at Harvard.

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Reply #27 posted 07/17/12 2:43pm

RodeoSchro

avatar

TonyVanDam said:

RodeoSchro said:

Tony, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It will answer your question re: the New Testament.

......and you can check out a few of my sources that dares to call out the fakeness within "Christianity":

Pagan Origins Of The Christ Myth by Greg Kane

http://www.pocm.info/

Jesus Never Existed by Kenneth Humphreys

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

Truth Be Known by D.M. Murdock

http://truthbeknown.com/

You asked, "Who wrote the Holy Bible?" and I provided you with an excellent source to answer your question.

For some reason, you felt the appropriate response to that was to provide me with books that address a question I have not asked.

See what I mean about the War on Christianity, and how you're the only one fighting - and you're still losing?

smile

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #28 posted 07/17/12 2:52pm

thepope2the9s

avatar

There were about 40 authors who wrote the bible over a 1500 year period of time and none really knew eachother personally...they also came from different social/occupational backgrounds i.e Moses/Joshua Solomon/Daniel Peter..etc...Also the bible was written in by these men under different circumstances...i.e Moses in desert...Jeremiah in prison...etc...It was also composed on 3 different continents (Asia/Africa/Europe)...and in 3 different languages (Hebrew /Aramic/Greek)...so the real question is ,,how did it all come together so well with all these different factors?

Stand Up! Everybody, this is your life!
https://www.facebook.com/...pope2the9s follow me on twitter @thepope2the9s
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Reply #29 posted 07/17/12 4:11pm

IanRG

TonyVanDam said:

I have THIS book that explains how the biblical canon was put together, including which books made the final cut of the OT & NT canon and which books didn't:

[img:$uid]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CrMh%2Bm3pL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/img:$uid]

And there was a conspiracy behind the motives of the Book of Enoch, Jasher, & Jubilees not making the final cut of the OT canon.

I have read some of MacDonald's work.

He does not mention any conspiracy theory. Indeed all he argues is that when the Church first started there was more flexibility because in his words "the first Christians were not so much interested in biblical canons as they were in the Lord of the Church who called them into existence as a community of faith. The writings that best communicated that call to obedience were employed in the Church in its faith and mission."

Naturally, as time went by people like the Gnostics started to write new things or misused this flexibility to integrate other beliefs into Christianity so the Biblical Canon had to become more restrictive. It does not mean that non-canon cannot be read and non-canon has no place in Christianity. And it certainly does not mean that there is any conspriacy theory.

Look at if from this perspective: the Catholic and Orthodox Bibles each include more OT books than the "Hebrew" Bible - The Torah, the Earlier and Latter Nevi'im and the Ketuvim. The Hebrew Bible has books that are not Christian Canon also. If this is a Chrisitan conspiracy then why don't the Jews have Enoch, Jasher and Jubilees in their writings?

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