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Reply #30 posted 03/08/12 9:05am

OldFriends4Sal
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2elijah said:

rialb said:

I can't speak for the athiest community but I think many of them believe that certain historical figures in the Bible existed but do not believe the miracles that are in the Bible. For example it is possible to believe that Jesus Christ was a real person and at the same time disbelieve that he was anything more than a normal man.

Even without the Bible we know that slavery has existed for nearly as long as humanity has existed so in this case I do not see any conflict.

Thanks for explaining, but I still don't see what their message has to do with a picture of an enslaved, African man with that device around his neck. It giives a completely different message of its own, and overshadows their message, because that graphic sends more of a 'physical' message, not a 'mental' one.

I gather their message is more about 'brainwashing' or 'mental slavery', moreso than physcial slavery. You can hurt a person physically with a chain around their neck, but you can't force them to embrace your religious beliefs. Which is why that graphic contrasts with their message. They could have just put an image of the bible and that would have connected more to the message they were trying to send. Looking at the pic, it sends two completely, different messages.

[Edited 3/8/12 8:55am]

It's because race is political, it's an image to sway social political ideas

Race Religion Politics all get's meshed up together.

On both sides when there is a political agenda people usually use information and ideas out of context.

similar with the picketting of gay pride events posters that say "god created aids to judge gay men..." but factually aids was in Africa among heterosexual dealings way before it got to america.

But they have an agenda

They should take those signs and put a young white or foreign girl being used in sexual slavery throught this country.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
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Reply #31 posted 03/08/12 9:07am

cborgman

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2elijah said:

rialb said:

I can't speak for the athiest community but I think many of them believe that certain historical figures in the Bible existed but do not believe the miracles that are in the Bible. For example it is possible to believe that Jesus Christ was a real person and at the same time disbelieve that he was anything more than a normal man.

Even without the Bible we know that slavery has existed for nearly as long as humanity has existed so in this case I do not see any conflict.

Thanks for explaining, but I still don't see what their message has to do with a picture of an enslaved, African man with that device around his neck. It giives a completely different message of its own, and overshadows the intention of their message, because that graphic sends more of a 'physical' message, not a 'mental' one.

I gather their message is more about 'brainwashing' or 'mental slavery', moreso than physcial slavery. You can hurt a person physically with a chain around their neck, but you can't force them to embrace your religious beliefs. Which is why that graphic contrasts with their message. They could have just put an image of the bible and that would have connected more to the message they were trying to send. Looking at the pic, it sends two completely, different messages.

[Edited 3/8/12 9:04am]

i think without the visual most people wouldnt have even given the board a read or second thought.

the graphic is hard to stomach, but i really feel like it deomstrates the quote better.

again, its a bit extreme and sensational, but... as a response against a state passing a bill declaring 2012 "the year of the bible" which is massively wrong and also extreme and sensational...

liars gonna lie, frauds gonna fraud.
but its a joy to call them out on their bullshit.
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Reply #32 posted 03/08/12 9:09am

OldFriends4Sal
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namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

......and Yahushua ("Jesus") never spoke for OR against slavery neither. neutral

We can't speak definitively on what Christ did or didn't say about slavery, because the Gospels never claim to capture everything he said or did. See e.g. John 21:25.

And . . . Paul ain't Jesus.

true and even Jesus (the Messiah) didn't come to liberate the Jews from Roman control. I believe Judas was one that believed he came to take authority from the Romans or their conquerors. There was a whole groups of jews who believed that. But it was supposed to be 1st time the dealing of mans 'fallen' nature. his 2nd coming-military.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #33 posted 03/08/12 10:05am

dothejump

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Ridiculous and disgusting. The picture has nothing to do with the message they want to send out.

Formerly known as Parade @ HQ and formerly proud owner of www.paradetour.com
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Reply #34 posted 03/08/12 10:22am

morningsong

2elijah said:

rialb said:

I can't speak for the athiest community but I think many of them believe that certain historical figures in the Bible existed but do not believe the miracles that are in the Bible. For example it is possible to believe that Jesus Christ was a real person and at the same time disbelieve that he was anything more than a normal man.

Even without the Bible we know that slavery has existed for nearly as long as humanity has existed so in this case I do not see any conflict.

Thanks for explaining, but I still don't see what their message has to do with a picture of an enslaved, African man with that device around his neck. It giives a completely different message of its own, and overshadows the intention of their message, because that graphic sends more of a 'physical' message, not a 'mental' one.

I gather their message is more about 'brainwashing' or 'mental slavery', moreso than physcial slavery. You can hurt a person physically with a chain around their neck, but you can't force them to embrace your religious beliefs. Which is why that graphic contrasts with their message. They could have just put an image of the bible and that would have connected more to the message they were trying to send. Looking at the pic, it sends two completely, different messages.

[Edited 3/8/12 9:04am]

I think they were trying to send multiple messages. One of which was to yank black peoples chain, so to speak. The whole, "let's get them to protest for us" thing. I could be wrong, but it's what I think.

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Reply #35 posted 03/08/12 10:59am

2elijah

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cborgman said:

2elijah said:

Thanks for explaining, but I still don't see what their message has to do with a picture of an enslaved, African man with that device around his neck. It giives a completely different message of its own, and overshadows the intention of their message, because that graphic sends more of a 'physical' message, not a 'mental' one.

I gather their message is more about 'brainwashing' or 'mental slavery', moreso than physcial slavery. You can hurt a person physically with a chain around their neck, but you can't force them to embrace your religious beliefs. Which is why that graphic contrasts with their message. They could have just put an image of the bible and that would have connected more to the message they were trying to send. Looking at the pic, it sends two completely, different messages.

[Edited 3/8/12 9:04am]

i think without the visual most people wouldnt have even given the board a read or second thought.

the graphic is hard to stomach, but i really feel like it deomstrates the quote better.

again, its a bit extreme and sensational, but... as a response against a state passing a bill declaring 2012 "the year of the bible" which is massively wrong and also extreme and sensational...

I understand they wanted to draw attention to their message, and if 'shocking' people with an uncomfortable truth, was how they chose to do it, well it worked and backfired at the same time, because it drew more attention to the graphic, as an ugly, uncomfortable historic truth, than it did about about a group of Atheists pissed off because some lawmakers passed a bill claiming '2012' the year of the bible.

The written message alone would have been enough to capture attention. I find, if they are going to use a graphic such as that, at the expense of those who suffered during that time period, to push their message, then are they willing to actually discuss the horrors that took place during that time period in America's history in comparison to the slavery they are referring to in the bible or sweep it under the rug, like many do in this country, when the topic of slavery in America arises? I feel it was a poor decision to make in using that graphic to push their message.

[Edited 3/8/12 11:08am]

Rest in Power Elijah Cummings. Thank you for your fight for human rights/justice. Your legacy will never die in vain.
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Reply #36 posted 03/08/12 11:06am

OldFriends4Sal
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morningsong said:

2elijah said:

Thanks for explaining, but I still don't see what their message has to do with a picture of an enslaved, African man with that device around his neck. It giives a completely different message of its own, and overshadows the intention of their message, because that graphic sends more of a 'physical' message, not a 'mental' one.

I gather their message is more about 'brainwashing' or 'mental slavery', moreso than physcial slavery. You can hurt a person physically with a chain around their neck, but you can't force them to embrace your religious beliefs. Which is why that graphic contrasts with their message. They could have just put an image of the bible and that would have connected more to the message they were trying to send. Looking at the pic, it sends two completely, different messages.

[Edited 3/8/12 9:04am]

I think they were trying to send multiple messages. One of which was to yank black peoples chain, so to speak. The whole, "let's get them to protest for us" thing. I could be wrong, but it's what I think.

Yep I agree,

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #37 posted 03/08/12 11:19am

2elijah

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morningsong said:

2elijah said:

Thanks for explaining, but I still don't see what their message has to do with a picture of an enslaved, African man with that device around his neck. It giives a completely different message of its own, and overshadows the intention of their message, because that graphic sends more of a 'physical' message, not a 'mental' one.

I gather their message is more about 'brainwashing' or 'mental slavery', moreso than physcial slavery. You can hurt a person physically with a chain around their neck, but you can't force them to embrace your religious beliefs. Which is why that graphic contrasts with their message. They could have just put an image of the bible and that would have connected more to the message they were trying to send. Looking at the pic, it sends two completely, different messages.

[Edited 3/8/12 9:04am]

I think they were trying to send multiple messages. One of which was to yank black peoples chain, so to speak. The whole, "let's get them to protest for us" thing. I could be wrong, but it's what I think.

Sound like that could have been one of their motives--let's see. hmmm a group of Atheists' choosing to 'use' the Black community to push their agenda, by posting a graphic of a black man with a device, which was used to put around the necks of Black slaves in the past, as a way to draw the attention of Black residents? Well, you know if they wanted the help of the Black community, if that was their intention, they could have sent out invites to have a community gathering, without the graphic. I wonder how many of the Atheists who support that message, would be willing to sit down with members of the Black community and compare/discuss America's history of slavery in comparison to the slavery in the bible? hmmm Interesting to say the least, but again, the graphic was in very, poor taste.

I mean if they were trying to capture the attention of Jewish people, do you think they would post a graphic of a Jewish person during Hitler's reign, being tortured?

[Edited 3/8/12 11:31am]

Rest in Power Elijah Cummings. Thank you for your fight for human rights/justice. Your legacy will never die in vain.
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Reply #38 posted 03/08/12 11:27am

Graycap23

2elijah said:

I mean if they were trying to capture the attention of Jewish people, do you think they would post a graphic of a Jewish person during Hitler's reign, being tortured?

[Edited 3/8/12 11:22am]

Because they would NOT stand 4 it......................as opposed 2..............

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Reply #39 posted 03/08/12 11:29am

2elijah

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Graycap23 said:

2elijah said:

I mean if they were trying to capture the attention of Jewish people, do you think they would post a graphic of a Jewish person during Hitler's reign, being tortured?

[Edited 3/8/12 11:22am]

Because they would NOT stand 4 it......................as opposed 2..............

Exactly. Who wouldn't question such an action?

Rest in Power Elijah Cummings. Thank you for your fight for human rights/justice. Your legacy will never die in vain.
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Reply #40 posted 03/08/12 11:42am

PurpleJedi

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KoolEaze said:

2elijah said:

I get their point too, but graphically, a poor way of sending that message.

yeahthat

DITTO

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #41 posted 03/08/12 11:58am

cborgman

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:

i think without the visual most people wouldnt have even given the board a read or second thought.

the graphic is hard to stomach, but i really feel like it deomstrates the quote better.

again, its a bit extreme and sensational, but... as a response against a state passing a bill declaring 2012 "the year of the bible" which is massively wrong and also extreme and sensational...

I understand they wanted to draw attention to their message, and if 'shocking' people with an uncomfortable truth, was how they chose to do it, well it worked and backfired at the same time, because it drew more attention to the graphic, as an ugly, uncomfortable historic truth, than it did about about a group of Atheists pissed off because some lawmakers passed a bill claiming '2012' the year of the bible.

The written message alone would have been enough to capture attention. I find, if they are going to use a graphic such as that, at the expense of those who suffered during that time period, to push their message, then are they willing to actually discuss the horrors that took place during that time period in America's history in comparison to the slavery they are referring to in the bible or sweep it under the rug, like many do in this country, when the topic of slavery in America arises? I feel it was a poor decision to make in using that graphic to push their message.

[Edited 3/8/12 11:08am]

the bible and god were used as justification for slavery, not disimilar as they are now used to oppress people in america. a lot of america's ugliest scars come from or are related to extremist christianity overriding common decency, justice, our laws, and the very foundation of our gov't

i think that is is sensationalist, and i would really find it extreme if it were action rather than reaction. as reaction i think its a bit... lazy... but effective.

i certainly would have had no idea otherwise that PA did something as blatantly unconstitutional and wrong as passing a bill declaring christianity as the states official choice if it werent for this billboard.

liars gonna lie, frauds gonna fraud.
but its a joy to call them out on their bullshit.
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Reply #42 posted 03/08/12 12:00pm

cborgman

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2elijah said:

morningsong said:

I think they were trying to send multiple messages. One of which was to yank black peoples chain, so to speak. The whole, "let's get them to protest for us" thing. I could be wrong, but it's what I think.

Sound like that could have been one of their motives--let's see. hmmm a group of Atheists' choosing to 'use' the Black community to push their agenda, by posting a graphic of a black man with a device, which was used to put around the necks of Black slaves in the past, as a way to draw the attention of Black residents? Well, you know if they wanted the help of the Black community, if that was their intention, they could have sent out invites to have a community gathering, without the graphic. I wonder how many of the Atheists who support that message, would be willing to sit down with members of the Black community and compare/discuss America's history of slavery in comparison to the slavery in the bible? hmmm Interesting to say the least, but again, the graphic was in very, poor taste.

I mean if they were trying to capture the attention of Jewish people, do you think they would post a graphic of a Jewish person during Hitler's reign, being tortured?

[Edited 3/8/12 11:31am]

i think it would be no more or less offensive, nor do i think it would be more or less effective in getting out the knowledge that PA is actively undermining the constitution and the foundation of this country.

it'd be just as sensationalist too, but no more or less effective or offensive.

i do think it would be a lot harder to find a biblical quote to match that image as since half of the bible was written by jews for jews, and jesus was a jew.

[Edited 3/8/12 12:04pm]

liars gonna lie, frauds gonna fraud.
but its a joy to call them out on their bullshit.
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Reply #43 posted 03/08/12 12:19pm

cborgman

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i do think it was not the smartest choice, mostly because people are now missing the forest for the trees because of it. it's sensationalist, and a bit lazy.

the problem here is that irony can be a really dangerous thing. people have a lot of trouble understanding irony, and only see stuff at the surface level rather than seeing the deeper point. this billboard is in no way saying slavery was right, quite the opposite.

but i do think it was effective (to an extent) in raising awareness of a particularly absurd and ridiculous bill that was meant to provoke and undermine.

the billboard was obviously meant to provoke, but i in no way think it had any intent to undermine the horror of slavery. if anything, i think it is pointing out the horrors of slavery as an attempt to show exactly the kind of thing that doing something as ignorant as a state endorsing a particular religion.

they could have also pulled the leviticus quote about it being right to kill gay people or the propertyship of women. i would not be offended if they had an image of matthew shepard or any of the other scores of gay people who were killed in recent times combined with the quote.

would it be sensationalist? yes.

would it be wrong? not in my mind.

people use the bible to justify almost any poor treatment of minorities. women, black folk, jews, and gays all have historically been told we were oppressed because it was god's will and plan. if a state is going to say they are getting in bed with the bible and fundamentalist christians, the people should know what they are signing onto



[Edited 3/8/12 12:28pm]

liars gonna lie, frauds gonna fraud.
but its a joy to call them out on their bullshit.
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Reply #44 posted 03/08/12 12:58pm

2elijah

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cborgman said:

2elijah said:

I understand they wanted to draw attention to their message, and if 'shocking' people with an uncomfortable truth, was how they chose to do it, well it worked and backfired at the same time, because it drew more attention to the graphic, as an ugly, uncomfortable historic truth, than it did about about a group of Atheists pissed off because some lawmakers passed a bill claiming '2012' the year of the bible.

The written message alone would have been enough to capture attention. I find, if they are going to use a graphic such as that, at the expense of those who suffered during that time period, to push their message, then are they willing to actually discuss the horrors that took place during that time period in America's history in comparison to the slavery they are referring to in the bible or sweep it under the rug, like many do in this country, when the topic of slavery in America arises? I feel it was a poor decision to make in using that graphic to push their message.

[Edited 3/8/12 11:08am]

the bible and god were used as justification for slavery, not disimilar as they are now used to oppress people in america. a lot of america's ugliest scars come from or are related to extremist christianity overriding common decency, justice, our laws, and the very foundation of our gov't

i think that is is sensationalist, and i would really find it extreme if it were action rather than reaction. as reaction i think its a bit... lazy... but effective.

i certainly would have had no idea otherwise that PA did something as blatantly unconstitutional and wrong as passing a bill declaring christianity as the states official choice if it werent for this billboard.

I agree that PA should not be declaring a 'specific' religion as a state's official religion. That is basically saying any other has no validity in that state or would not be recognized or respected. Kind of reminds me of religious groups in other countries, who declare one religion is superior than the other, where many are killed if they don't honor what a majority group follows.

However, I just don't like the graphic, because it has such an ugly history of its own, that is often dismissed. Like I said, I get their point, but I can't agree that pic was the right choice to bring attention to their message. PA is not an all Black state, so if they think the bill passing is a way of mentally enslaving or brainwashing residents of PA with Christianity, then they could have included a pic representative of the citizens of PA, who are from various racial/ethnic/religious/non-religious backgrounds, who make up the population of PA. So far, that pic appears to be sending the message to Black residents, not all of PA, and it is reflective of one group's ancestral, ugly history in this country, where many today, (including some of those atheist's involved in sending that message) benefit from the sufferings of those who were chained by neck just like the guy in that pic.

Rest in Power Elijah Cummings. Thank you for your fight for human rights/justice. Your legacy will never die in vain.
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Reply #45 posted 03/08/12 1:18pm

cborgman

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:

the bible and god were used as justification for slavery, not disimilar as they are now used to oppress people in america. a lot of america's ugliest scars come from or are related to extremist christianity overriding common decency, justice, our laws, and the very foundation of our gov't

i think that is is sensationalist, and i would really find it extreme if it were action rather than reaction. as reaction i think its a bit... lazy... but effective.

i certainly would have had no idea otherwise that PA did something as blatantly unconstitutional and wrong as passing a bill declaring christianity as the states official choice if it werent for this billboard.

I agree that PA should not be declaring a 'specific' religion as a state's official religion. That is basically saying any other has no validity in that state or would not be recognized or respected. Kind of reminds me of religious groups in other countries, who declare one religion is superior than the other, where many are killed if they don't honor what a majority group follows.

However, I just don't like the graphic, because it has such an ugly history of its own, that is often dismissed. Like I said, I get their point, but I can't agree that pic was the right choice to bring attention to their message. PA is not an all Black state, so if they think the bill passing is a way of mentally enslaving or brainwashing residents of PA with Christianity, then they could have included a pic representative of the citizens of PA, who are from various racial/ethnic/religious/non-religious backgrounds, who make up the population of PA. So far, that pic appears to be sending the message to Black residents, not all of PA, and it is reflective of one group's ancestral, ugly history in this country, where many today, (including some of those atheist's involved in sending that message) benefit from the sufferings of those who were chained by neck just like the guy in that pic.

fair points, and of course i completely understand why you wouldnt like nor want to see the graphic. it disturbs me as well.

i also agree that their were prob better ways of raising the point, but i certainly dont think it was meant to be read as racist or to offend.

liars gonna lie, frauds gonna fraud.
but its a joy to call them out on their bullshit.
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Reply #46 posted 03/08/12 2:04pm

2elijah

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cborgman said:

2elijah said:

I agree that PA should not be declaring a 'specific' religion as a state's official religion. That is basically saying any other has no validity in that state or would not be recognized or respected. Kind of reminds me of religious groups in other countries, who declare one religion is superior than the other, where many are killed if they don't honor what a majority group follows.

However, I just don't like the graphic, because it has such an ugly history of its own, that is often dismissed. Like I said, I get their point, but I can't agree that pic was the right choice to bring attention to their message. PA is not an all Black state, so if they think the bill passing is a way of mentally enslaving or brainwashing residents of PA with Christianity, then they could have included a pic representative of the citizens of PA, who are from various racial/ethnic/religious/non-religious backgrounds, who make up the population of PA. So far, that pic appears to be sending the message to Black residents, not all of PA, and it is reflective of one group's ancestral, ugly history in this country, where many today, (including some of those atheist's involved in sending that message) benefit from the sufferings of those who were chained by neck just like the guy in that pic.

fair points, and of course i completely understand why you wouldnt like nor want to see the graphic. it disturbs me as well.

i also agree that their were prob better ways of raising the point, but i certainly dont think it was meant to be read as racist or to offend.

Just not 'thought out' very well..

Rest in Power Elijah Cummings. Thank you for your fight for human rights/justice. Your legacy will never die in vain.
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Reply #47 posted 03/08/12 2:06pm

cborgman

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2elijah said:

cborgman said:

fair points, and of course i completely understand why you wouldnt like nor want to see the graphic. it disturbs me as well.

i also agree that their were prob better ways of raising the point, but i certainly dont think it was meant to be read as racist or to offend.

Just not 'thought out' very well..

agreed

liars gonna lie, frauds gonna fraud.
but its a joy to call them out on their bullshit.
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Reply #48 posted 03/08/12 2:21pm

lazycrockett

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This is what someone(s) did on tuesday night.

Also the billboard was taken down today.

http://www.pennlive.com/m...llboa.html

sorry for the large image.

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #49 posted 03/08/12 3:02pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Also the 1611 King James version says servant (bond servant)

"Servants obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

So the Southern slave masters and these people who put this sign together both were/are off track

It's clear from this ^ that the slavery that we know via the trans Atlantic was not justified by the bible.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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