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Reply #180 posted 08/09/11 12:16pm

catpark

2elijah said:



catpark said:


SquirrelMeat said:

I think they should herd them up and forget their human rights.



Put them in chaingangs repairing the streets they destroyed and then sent them on a years national service to Somalia to build irrigation and housing.



Putting them into National service and sending them out to a third world country like Somali to work is a great idea. It will change them. I remember this program on bb3 think it was called the strictest parents, they sent these two troubled teenagers from England to stay with a family in Nigeria, at first they were rude with pure attitude, the girl wouldn't do the work the parents told her do not listening to anyone wanted to smoke a lot...the guy wouldn't shave his goaty off for the school class thinking he was too cool, pure attitude. Anyway after a couple of days they was bawling to comeback home to England lol. After days past they saw people working hard for pennies lots of deprevation lots of struggling, but it changed them they started to appreciate what the family in Nigeria was trying to achieve, they started getting on well with the parents and what they had in England and apologised to their mums.

They had a show like that in the U.S. and it pretty much gave the kids a different outlook on life.



Would have been nice to see a followup, a year later, if these kids returned to being spoiled and unappreciative, once they got settled into their comfortable lives again.

[Edited 8/9/11 11:55am]


Yeah it would be nice to see how they've done, I hope the shock experience bought positive permanent changes in their lives.
FUNKNROLL! dancing jig "February 2014, wow". 'dre. nod
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Reply #181 posted 08/09/11 1:06pm

V10LETBLUES

This is really sickening. The worst of the human condition.

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Reply #182 posted 08/09/11 1:08pm

V10LETBLUES

TypoQueen said:

If we can do this:

Then all sensible adults can unite and make it known that we will not allow them to destroy our comunity's. All parents lock your kids in and if they have crossed that line out them learn them a lesson they wont forget.

^

THIS!

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Reply #183 posted 08/09/11 1:18pm

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

Gunsnhalen said:

I have some friend's in London, and there telling me about all the craziness going on as it happens. People are just jumping on the looting bandwagon and dozens of innocent people are being robbed in teh streets, broad daylight they said disbelief

I Wonder what's next?, i live in LA and i am always wondering if something like this will happen here like they did back with the Rodney king trial. As scary as it is to say, get a couple people pissed ike in this situation and utter chaos happens....

I live in LA too, and expereinced those riots - it was very scary and very sad. But it wasn't just a few people pissed off - this was a long-brewing reaction to the police brutally that was being conducted in certain ethnic neighborhoods. Rodney King was a drug addict driving like mad man and endangering his life and everyone driving on the road that night. But did he deserve to be beaten to a pulp, or just arrested? After the millionth incident - and this one caught on tape no less - lots of people were pissed and wrecked havoc. I'm not saying rioting and looting and the beating innocent people is right... but it stems from a deeper social problem than just a one-time incident.

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #184 posted 08/09/11 2:07pm

scatwoman

The ugly consequences of the revolting wealth disparity are showing themselves once again. Thank you capitalism.

.

[Edited 8/9/11 14:10pm]

"The Pentagon controls every word and image the American people reads or sees in mass media."
Richard Perle 2004, at a press conference in the Pentagon.
doody
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Reply #185 posted 08/09/11 2:22pm

dJJ

Watched Sky channel and BBC with my upstairs English neighbour tonight. Watching all the riots in Manchaster and Birmingham.

I wondered why the army wasn't marching in, and he said that would mean a political failure. There have been major cutbacks on the police service and calling in the help of the army would be admitting that the police can't handle their job due to the cutbacks.

The family of the fella who got shot by the police has aired their disgust about the riots. They are appaled that the death of their loved one is used as an excuse for lootering.

The kids who got caught and arrested already, face complaints of prison sentences of 10 years! Among the ones that pleaded guilty were graphic designers, college students, army guy even a youthworker! These people can forget about their careers! Sheer stupidity.

Best comment I heard on tv tonight:

These are not political riots, this is a form of very agressive evening shopping.

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #186 posted 08/09/11 2:37pm

razor

dJJ said:

Watched Sky channel and BBC with my upstairs English neighbour tonight. Watching all the riots in Manchaster and Birmingham.



I wondered why the army wasn't marching in, and he said that would mean a political failure. There have been major cutbacks on the police service and calling in the help of the army would be admitting that the police can't handle their job due to the cutbacks.



The family of the fella who got shot by the police has aired their disgust about the riots. They are appaled that the death of their loved one is used as an excuse for lootering.




The kids who got caught and arrested already, face complaints of prison sentences of 10 years! Among the ones that pleaded guilty were graphic designers, college students, army guy even a youthworker! These people can forget about their careers! Sheer stupidity.




Best comment I heard on tv tonight:



These are not political riots, this is a form of very agressive evening shopping.






Just to reiterate, the met cuts equate to 1.4% of police officers. Hardly enough to make a reasonable case for this being a significant factor in these events.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #187 posted 08/09/11 2:42pm

dJJ

razor said:

dJJ said:

Watched Sky channel and BBC with my upstairs English neighbour tonight. Watching all the riots in Manchaster and Birmingham.

I wondered why the army wasn't marching in, and he said that would mean a political failure. There have been major cutbacks on the police service and calling in the help of the army would be admitting that the police can't handle their job due to the cutbacks.

The family of the fella who got shot by the police has aired their disgust about the riots. They are appaled that the death of their loved one is used as an excuse for lootering.

The kids who got caught and arrested already, face complaints of prison sentences of 10 years! Among the ones that pleaded guilty were graphic designers, college students, army guy even a youthworker! These people can forget about their careers! Sheer stupidity.

Best comment I heard on tv tonight:

These are not political riots, this is a form of very agressive evening shopping.

Just to reiterate, the met cuts equate to 1.4% of police officers. Hardly enough to make a reasonable case for this being a significant factor in these events.

I'll tell him tomorrow wink

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #188 posted 08/09/11 2:52pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

"As Prime Minister, I will be passing new laws to allow Police emergency powers in riot control. We will be using indelible ink rubber bullets to mark those rioters and we will arrest them over the coming days. I will also be passing new measures giving back parents and teacher right to discipline, and remove the rights for life for any benefits to anyone connected to the rioting or anti social behavior. From tomorrow I will be introducing social conscription for any youth out of education or work, carrying out social repair and community projects".

Carlsberg don't do Prime Ministers, but if they did........

.
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Reply #189 posted 08/09/11 3:23pm

lust

avatar

davetherave6767 said:

Harlepolis said:

Seems like your typical New York.

Its very sad that people r like this.......This doesnt happen in the midlands where i live!!!!! People r kinder more open much more friendly.....people in london rush around like rats and they r always on edge like there in fear 4 there lives....And if u dare stop any1 2 ask 4 directions or the time prepare 2b maced...disbelief

What an arogant and ignorant village idiot. So where has this knob jockey gone since it kicked off in the utopian midlands and the north? Perhaps trying to figure out how to plug in his new 50inch plasma!

You enjoy watching these scum wreak havoc in isolated parts of London and destroying the homes and businesses of innocent hard working people. If this is an example of the kinder more friendly people indicative of your community then there really is no reason to travel north of the Watford gap. There are arsehols everywhere as you have demonstrated and good people everywhere as shown by the Londoners who are coming out to clean up their communities after the ludicrous and selfish acts of these thugs. mad

If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #190 posted 08/09/11 4:18pm

mcmeekle

avatar

lust said:

davetherave6767 said:

Its very sad that people r like this.......This doesnt happen in the midlands where i live!!!!! People r kinder more open much more friendly.....people in london rush around like rats and they r always on edge like there in fear 4 there lives....And if u dare stop any1 2 ask 4 directions or the time prepare 2b maced...disbelief

What an arogant and ignorant village idiot. So where has this knob jockey gone since it kicked off in the utopian midlands and the north? Perhaps trying to figure out how to plug in his new 50inch plasma!

You enjoy watching these scum wreak havoc in isolated parts of London and destroying the homes and businesses of innocent hard working people. If this is an example of the kinder more friendly people indicative of your community then there really is no reason to travel north of the Watford gap. There are arsehols everywhere as you have demonstrated and good people everywhere as shown by the Londoners who are coming out to clean up their communities after the ludicrous and selfish acts of these thugs. mad

You've gone a bit far there..... confused

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Reply #191 posted 08/09/11 4:54pm

lust

avatar

mcmeekle said:

lust said:

What an arogant and ignorant village idiot. So where has this knob jockey gone since it kicked off in the utopian midlands and the north? Perhaps trying to figure out how to plug in his new 50inch plasma!

You enjoy watching these scum wreak havoc in isolated parts of London and destroying the homes and businesses of innocent hard working people. If this is an example of the kinder more friendly people indicative of your community then there really is no reason to travel north of the Watford gap. There are arsehols everywhere as you have demonstrated and good people everywhere as shown by the Londoners who are coming out to clean up their communities after the ludicrous and selfish acts of these thugs. mad

You've gone a bit far there..... confused

No, I really haven't. Perhaps I should have quoted from his earlier post.

"evillol London is a crap place anyway......the people there r rude/selfish........There is an im alright jack culture in london....no body looks u in the eye no 1 goes out there way 2 say hello....Ive quite enjoyed watching the riots...couldnt happen 2 nicer people...."

It's bad enough for the people who are affected by these events without hearing these idiotic sentiments. And I as an ex Londoner feel for the people of the Midlands, Nottingham, Birmingham and Liecester who are getting it now. Places where "it would never happen"

If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #192 posted 08/09/11 4:57pm

2elijah

avatar

DiminutiveRocker said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I have some friend's in London, and there telling me about all the craziness going on as it happens. People are just jumping on the looting bandwagon and dozens of innocent people are being robbed in teh streets, broad daylight they said disbelief

I Wonder what's next?, i live in LA and i am always wondering if something like this will happen here like they did back with the Rodney king trial. As scary as it is to say, get a couple people pissed ike in this situation and utter chaos happens....

I live in LA too, and expereinced those riots - it was very scary and very sad. But it wasn't just a few people pissed off - this was a long-brewing reaction to the police brutally that was being conducted in certain ethnic neighborhoods. Rodney King was a drug addict driving like mad man and endangering his life and everyone driving on the road that night. But did he deserve to be beaten to a pulp, or just arrested? After the millionth incident - and this one caught on tape no less - lots of people were pissed and wrecked havoc. I'm not saying rioting and looting and the beating innocent people is right... but it stems from a deeper social problem than just a one-time incident.

According to recent reports on CNN, about the kid that was shot in London, the latest reports state that the murdered victim did not shoot at police first, and there is no evidence that he did. The polid shot at him first and he eventually died in the process, as we know already know. They did, mention he was part of a gang, but the thing is, he did not fire his weapon at the police. We shall see how this case will be handled in the future and if the police officer(s) that killed him will be charged.

On the other hand, those who were upset about this shooting, should have planned organized, peaceful protests, like many now do here in the states, in incidents like this. As anyone who participated in the looting/fires/acts of crime, have basically made the situation worse, and does not help to bring justice for the victim who lost his life in this situation nor does it bring peace to his grieving family. This whole situation could have been handled in better ways, which could have possibly led to some progress, and having this social ill addressed publically in an organized fashion, especially if this was a long-brewing situation (i.e., police brutality against specific members of the communty), and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back (so-to-speak).

[Edited 8/9/11 17:04pm]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #193 posted 08/09/11 5:10pm

mcmeekle

avatar

2elijah said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

I live in LA too, and expereinced those riots - it was very scary and very sad. But it wasn't just a few people pissed off - this was a long-brewing reaction to the police brutally that was being conducted in certain ethnic neighborhoods. Rodney King was a drug addict driving like mad man and endangering his life and everyone driving on the road that night. But did he deserve to be beaten to a pulp, or just arrested? After the millionth incident - and this one caught on tape no less - lots of people were pissed and wrecked havoc. I'm not saying rioting and looting and the beating innocent people is right... but it stems from a deeper social problem than just a one-time incident.

According to recent reports on CNN, about the kid that was shot in London, the latest reports state that the murdered victim did not shoot at police first, and there is no evidence that he did. The polid shot at him first and he eventually died in the process, as we know already know. They did, mention he was part of a gang, but the thing is, he did not fire his weapon at the police. We shall see how this case will be handled in the future and if the police officer(s) that killed him will be charged.

On the other hand, those who were upset about this shooting, should have planned organized, peaceful protests, like many now do here in the states, in incidents like this. As anyone who participated in the looting/fires/acts of crime, have basically made the situation worse, and does not help to bring justice for the victim who lost his life in this situation nor does it bring peace to his grieving family. This whole situation could have been handled in better ways, which could have possibly led to some progress, and having this social ill addressed publically in an organized fashion, especially if this was a long-brewing situation (i.e., police brutality against specific members of the communty), and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back (so-to-speak).

[Edited 8/9/11 17:04pm]

The scenes we are seeing now have little if any connection to the shooting of Mark Duggan.

sad

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Reply #194 posted 08/09/11 5:12pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

2elijah said:

According to recent reports on CNN, about the kid that was shot in London, the latest reports state that the murdered victim did not shoot at police first, and there is no evidence that he did. The polid shot at him first and he eventually died in the process, as we know already know. They did, mention he was part of a gang, but the thing is, he did not fire his weapon at the police. We shall see how this case will be handled in the future and if the police officer(s) that killed him will be charged.

On the other hand, those who were upset about this shooting, should have planned organized, peaceful protests, like many now do here in the states, in incidents like this. As anyone who participated in the looting/fires/acts of crime, have basically made the situation worse, and does not help to bring justice for the victim who lost his life in this situation nor does it bring peace to his grieving family. This whole situation could have been handled in better ways, which could have possibly led to some progress, and having this social ill addressed publically in an organized fashion, especially if this was a long-brewing situation (i.e., police brutality against specific members of the communty), and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back (so-to-speak).

[Edited 8/9/11 17:04pm]

Three points

1. Nothing so far has even hinted at murder. Even if it whole worst case unfolded here, it would be unlawful death.

2. Did you know he was breaking the law in the UK to be carrying one? Police have the right to shoot at the handler of an illegal firearm if they think it could be used. This is not like the US. Guns are a rare thing.

3. The "incident" has nothing to do with the rioting and looting. Even the looters are saying they are doing it go get back at the rich. They have just been looking for something to blame.

.
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Reply #195 posted 08/09/11 5:16pm

mcmeekle

avatar

lust said:

mcmeekle said:

You've gone a bit far there..... confused

No, I really haven't. Perhaps I should have quoted from his earlier post.

"evillol London is a crap place anyway......the people there r rude/selfish........There is an im alright jack culture in london....no body looks u in the eye no 1 goes out there way 2 say hello....Ive quite enjoyed watching the riots...couldnt happen 2 nicer people...."

It's bad enough for the people who are affected by these events without hearing these idiotic sentiments. And I as an ex Londoner feel for the people of the Midlands, Nottingham, Birmingham and Liecester who are getting it now. Places where "it would never happen"

I saw his posts and major egg-on-face, but if you resort to name-calling, the whole thread is at risk of disappearing.

There are loads of idiotic comments flying about elsewhere too. Facebook is the worst as I know those people..... sad

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Reply #196 posted 08/09/11 5:27pm

ISF

DiminutiveRocker said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I have some friend's in London, and there telling me about all the craziness going on as it happens. People are just jumping on the looting bandwagon and dozens of innocent people are being robbed in teh streets, broad daylight they said disbelief

I Wonder what's next?, i live in LA and i am always wondering if something like this will happen here like they did back with the Rodney king trial. As scary as it is to say, get a couple people pissed ike in this situation and utter chaos happens....

I live in LA too, and expereinced those riots - it was very scary and very sad. But it wasn't just a few people pissed off - this was a long-brewing reaction to the police brutally that was being conducted in certain ethnic neighborhoods. Rodney King was a drug addict driving like mad man and endangering his life and everyone driving on the road that night. But did he deserve to be beaten to a pulp, or just arrested? After the millionth incident - and this one caught on tape no less - lots of people were pissed and wrecked havoc. I'm not saying rioting and looting and the beating innocent people is right... but it stems from a deeper social problem than just a one-time incident.

It was not a one-time incident in London either. I don't doubt that it happens in LA (and US as a whole) far more than London, but it was not a one time incident. Also, police do harass ethnic minorities, especially in poorer areas.

Not that the looting is justified, of course!

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Reply #197 posted 08/09/11 5:31pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

davetherave6767 said:

evillol London is a crap place anyway......the people there r rude/selfish........There is an im alright jack culture in london....no body looks u in the eye no 1 goes out there way 2 say hello....Ive quite enjoyed watching the riots...couldnt happen 2 nicer people....

Dude, that is bollocks.

.
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Reply #198 posted 08/09/11 5:45pm

Harlepolis

WOW! eek

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Reply #199 posted 08/09/11 5:47pm

2elijah

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

2elijah said:

According to recent reports on CNN, about the kid that was shot in London, the latest reports state that the murdered victim did not shoot at police first, and there is no evidence that he did. The polid shot at him first and he eventually died in the process, as we know already know. They did, mention he was part of a gang, but the thing is, he did not fire his weapon at the police. We shall see how this case will be handled in the future and if the police officer(s) that killed him will be charged.

On the other hand, those who were upset about this shooting, should have planned organized, peaceful protests, like many now do here in the states, in incidents like this. As anyone who participated in the looting/fires/acts of crime, have basically made the situation worse, and does not help to bring justice for the victim who lost his life in this situation nor does it bring peace to his grieving family. This whole situation could have been handled in better ways, which could have possibly led to some progress, and having this social ill addressed publically in an organized fashion, especially if this was a long-brewing situation (i.e., police brutality against specific members of the communty), and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back (so-to-speak).

[Edited 8/9/11 17:04pm]

Three points

1. Nothing so far has even hinted at murder. Even if it whole worst case unfolded here, it would be unlawful death.

2. Did you know he was breaking the law in the UK to be carrying one? Police have the right to shoot at the handler of an illegal firearm if they think it could be used. This is not like the US. Guns are a rare thing.

3. The "incident" has nothing to do with the rioting and looting. Even the looters are saying they are doing it go get back at the rich. They have just been looking for something to blame.

1) They murdered a man, where the latest reports stated the young man did not fire at officers. The officers fired at him. If all evidence shows that he did not "point to shoot" at officers, then what was the reason for killing him other than knowing he was carrying a gun? Had he taken the gun, pointed it at the officers in a threatening manner, then I could see that as a threat to officers, forcing them to kill him, but if he didn't point the gun at the officers at all/posed no threat at the time, what was the reason for killing him? Now until that type of evidence is presented, then the cops murdered him, while he posed no threat to them. So for now, I see that as murder.

2) Did you know in some states in the U.S. it is illegal to carry a gun, but not all people who have one illegally, are shot immediately, because they are known to be carrying one, unless they take it out and point it towards someone with intent to shoot/kill?

3) The incident was the 'jumpstart' of the looting and rioting, and yes some may have used it as an excuse to loot or riot, but there's no way you can say, that all that were out rioting did it just to get back at the rich. Many also participated in those crimes, i.e, burning buildings/businesses, etc., as their way of unleashing their anger/frustration over this young man's death. Now is there a history/major complaints of racial profiling in the UK towards specific members of communities in the UK? Like I stated before, there were many who did advantage of the situation, and took part in stealing material items/looting, attack innocent people, but many were also angry over the death of the young man, which I am not saying anyone had a right to go out and burn buildings/businesses, attack/rob innocent people, because of this incident. There are much better ways to express/handle one's anger or disgust over incidents like this.

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #200 posted 08/09/11 5:52pm

Fauxie

avatar

I've witnessed first-hand similar things happen where I live in Bangkok, and often commented on how if such a thing happened in London that it would likely be dealt with better, but things seem to be similarly out of control. It's surreal to me. I'm so out of the loop now, so detached from England, it feels like a foreign country to me. Generally I'm just confused and wondering where all this has come from. I've no sense of the atmosphere, politically or otherwise, nor awareness of recent events that might be pertinent. How is Blighty doing? It's like it's not my home anymore. Maybe I should pay closer attention.

MY COUSIN WORKS IN A PHARMACY AND SHE SAID THEY ENEMA'D PRANCE INTO OBLIVION WITH FENTONILS!!
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Reply #201 posted 08/09/11 6:09pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

2elijah said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Three points

1. Nothing so far has even hinted at murder. Even if it whole worst case unfolded here, it would be unlawful death.

2. Did you know he was breaking the law in the UK to be carrying one? Police have the right to shoot at the handler of an illegal firearm if they think it could be used. This is not like the US. Guns are a rare thing.

3. The "incident" has nothing to do with the rioting and looting. Even the looters are saying they are doing it go get back at the rich. They have just been looking for something to blame.

1) They murdered a man, where the latest reports stated the young man did not fire at officers. The officers fired at him. If all evidence shows that he did not "point to shoot" at officers, then what was the reason for killing him other than knowing he was carrying a gun? Had he taken the gun, pointed it at the officers in a threatening manner, then I could see that as a threat to officers, forcing them to kill him, but if he didn't point the gun at the officers at all/posed no threat at the time, what was the reason for killing him? Now until that type of evidence is presented, then the cops murdered him, while he posed no threat to them. So for now, I see that as murder.

2) Did you know in some states in the U.S. it is illegal to carry a gun, but not all people who have one illegally, are shot immediately, because they are known to be carrying one, unless they take it out and point it towards someone with intent to shoot/kill?

3) The incident was the 'jumpstart' of the looting and rioting, and yes some may have used it as an excuse to loot or riot, but there's no way you can say, that all that were out rioting did it just to get back at the rich. Many also participated in those crimes, i.e, burning buildings/businesses, etc., as their way of unleashing their anger/frustration over this young man's death. Now is there a history/major complaints of racial profiling in the UK towards specific members of communities in the UK? Like I stated before, there were many who did advantage of the situation, and took part in stealing material items/looting, attack innocent people, but many were also angry over the death of the young man, which I am not saying anyone had a right to go out and burn buildings/businesses, attack/rob innocent people, because of this incident. There are much better ways to express/handle one's anger or disgust over incidents like this.

You clearly aren't here in the streets because its not true. There is NO ONE across the entire political or public spectrum truely linking this. Even Duggans family.

And the fact that you have called it murder before the evidence is out says a lot. Carry a weapon, take the risk of this happening. Thats the rule. Written or unwritten. I grew up in Tottenham. Its the same back then as it is now.

The only people I have heard calling this something different are people watching the foriegn news or someone with an anti establishment agenda to begin with.

.
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Reply #202 posted 08/09/11 6:49pm

2elijah

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

2elijah said:

1) They murdered a man, where the latest reports stated the young man did not fire at officers. The officers fired at him. If all evidence shows that he did not "point to shoot" at officers, then what was the reason for killing him other than knowing he was carrying a gun? Had he taken the gun, pointed it at the officers in a threatening manner, then I could see that as a threat to officers, forcing them to kill him, but if he didn't point the gun at the officers at all/posed no threat at the time, what was the reason for killing him? Now until that type of evidence is presented, then the cops murdered him, while he posed no threat to them. So for now, I see that as murder.

2) Did you know in some states in the U.S. it is illegal to carry a gun, but not all people who have one illegally, are shot immediately, because they are known to be carrying one, unless they take it out and point it towards someone with intent to shoot/kill?

3) The incident was the 'jumpstart' of the looting and rioting, and yes some may have used it as an excuse to loot or riot, but there's no way you can say, that all that were out rioting did it just to get back at the rich. Many also participated in those crimes, i.e, burning buildings/businesses, etc., as their way of unleashing their anger/frustration over this young man's death. Now is there a history/major complaints of racial profiling in the UK towards specific members of communities in the UK? Like I stated before, there were many who did advantage of the situation, and took part in stealing material items/looting, attack innocent people, but many were also angry over the death of the young man, which I am not saying anyone had a right to go out and burn buildings/businesses, attack/rob innocent people, because of this incident. There are much better ways to express/handle one's anger or disgust over incidents like this.

You clearly aren't here in the streets because its not true. There is NO ONE across the entire political or public spectrum truely linking this. Even Duggans family.

And the fact that you have called it murder before the evidence is out says a lot. Carry a weapon, take the risk of this happening. Thats the rule. Written or unwritten. I grew up in Tottenham. Its the same back then as it is now.

The only people I have heard calling this something different are people watching the foriegn news or someone with an anti establishment agenda to begin with.

Of course I'm not in the UK, I live in the U.S. but I think you missed the point I'm making. I said the victim's death by the police officers jumpstarted the riots/looting. If it didn't, then was there rioting/looting prior to this, like the day before the incident? Also, of course the victim's family wouldn't condone the looting or rioting or the many youth using this incident to harm innocent people. But the point is, his death by the police officers, did jumpstart the riots/looting and a lot of frustrations (i.e. racial profiling/stop and search) that apparently was already boiling for some time, and were acted out in this incident by many of the youth who vented/expressed/acted out their frustrations in this riot.

Not saying rioting/looting was the right action to take regarding this incident. I also stated several times, that some took advantage of the situation, and rioted/looted for the sake of jumping on the bandwagon.

I will not agree, however, that many just did it to get back at the rich, as the "sole" reason for the rioting/looting.

I was just listening to Victoria Jackson on Thom Hartmann's show, on RT news, and he asked her what could have been some of the reasons behind, why many youth reacted in this manner, and she basically spoke of social problems that were already brewing among the youth in the U.K. Like the increase of the "stop and search" tactics used by many police officers out there, against youths in several communities. Victoria also spoke about the lack of youth programs/services that were cut in the UK, and that many youth clubs are no longer free, and so many of the young people can't afford to attend anymore, so they take to the streets looking for some activity (so-to-speak), where some end up falling prey to a life of crime/joining gangs, etc. Not to mention lack of jobs for youth, and that many youth, in specific communities have nowhere to go for recreational activities or career opportunities.

Again, I believe many rioted/looted in frustration of the victim's death, as well as, those who took part in it for the already, existing social ills that affects their communities, as well as, those that took part in the looting just for the sake of it. Which the rioting/looting doesn't help to bring progress or make changes to their frustrations, other than possibly getting themselves in trouble and becoming a problem to a system they're already frustrated with. There's far better ways to organize and deal with social injustices.

[Edited 8/9/11 19:51pm]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #203 posted 08/09/11 7:36pm

SUPRMAN

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scatwoman said:

The ugly consequences of the revolting wealth disparity are showing themselves once again. Thank you capitalism.

.

[Edited 8/9/11 14:10pm]

You're right. This would never happen in Russia or China.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #204 posted 08/09/11 7:41pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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mcmeekle said:

2elijah said:

According to recent reports on CNN, about the kid that was shot in London, the latest reports state that the murdered victim did not shoot at police first, and there is no evidence that he did. The polid shot at him first and he eventually died in the process, as we know already know. They did, mention he was part of a gang, but the thing is, he did not fire his weapon at the police. We shall see how this case will be handled in the future and if the police officer(s) that killed him will be charged.

On the other hand, those who were upset about this shooting, should have planned organized, peaceful protests, like many now do here in the states, in incidents like this. As anyone who participated in the looting/fires/acts of crime, have basically made the situation worse, and does not help to bring justice for the victim who lost his life in this situation nor does it bring peace to his grieving family. This whole situation could have been handled in better ways, which could have possibly led to some progress, and having this social ill addressed publically in an organized fashion, especially if this was a long-brewing situation (i.e., police brutality against specific members of the communty), and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back (so-to-speak).

[Edited 8/9/11 17:04pm]

The scenes we are seeing now have little if any connection to the shooting of Mark Duggan.

sad

Yeah, it all spirals out of control and unleashes this ugliness. So upsetting to watch on TV.

neutral

[Edited 8/9/11 19:43pm]

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #205 posted 08/09/11 8:04pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

catpark said:

razor said:
A few facts: The bank bailouts happened under the labour govt, not the current one (not that I, blaming labour for that; entirely the right policy at the time). UK unemployment is not higher than it was a year ago; indeed it is slightly lower. Our spending on war has decreased not increased from 12 months ago. Their have been cuts in the met police numbers. However they amount to 1.4% of the total force. Hardly enough to make any reasonable argument that they have somehow been a major factor in the last few days.
Those unemployment figures are debatable imo, there has been so many cuts since they got into power. If u think the UK govenment are doing good and its not enough to moan about, why is there so much violence of rioting and looting burning of buildings in London over the past 3 days?

Because Britain doesn't have the money. Certainly not by choice. No one imagines cuts are going to win a popularity contest.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #206 posted 08/09/11 8:35pm

2elijah

avatar

mcmeekle said:

2elijah said:

According to recent reports on CNN, about the kid that was shot in London, the latest reports state that the murdered victim did not shoot at police first, and there is no evidence that he did. The polid shot at him first and he eventually died in the process, as we know already know. They did, mention he was part of a gang, but the thing is, he did not fire his weapon at the police. We shall see how this case will be handled in the future and if the police officer(s) that killed him will be charged.

On the other hand, those who were upset about this shooting, should have planned organized, peaceful protests, like many now do here in the states, in incidents like this. As anyone who participated in the looting/fires/acts of crime, have basically made the situation worse, and does not help to bring justice for the victim who lost his life in this situation nor does it bring peace to his grieving family. This whole situation could have been handled in better ways, which could have possibly led to some progress, and having this social ill addressed publically in an organized fashion, especially if this was a long-brewing situation (i.e., police brutality against specific members of the communty), and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back (so-to-speak).

[Edited 8/9/11 17:04pm]

The scenes we are seeing now have little if any connection to the shooting of Mark Duggan.

sad

I'm just saying that it seems the shooting of Mr. Duggan was a "jumpstart" to the riots/looting, whether some participated in it for other reasons like "getting back at the rich". There had to be some angst from members in that crowd, regarding Duggan's death by police as well.

This is why I asked if there was any indication of a riot/looting prior to this shooting incident, earlier in the week prior to Mr. Duggan's death, "solely" based on "getting back at the rich" including other social injustices felt by youth who participated in the riots/looting...or...are some in denial that the riots/looting, may have started based on anger, frustratons from youth, towards what may have been a racially-profiled shooting incident, regarding Mr. Duggan's death, and based on the increase of "stop and search" by police among youth in specific communities throughout the UK?

In my opinion, these riots/looting are a combination of the killing of Mr. Duggan by police officers, which was a contributing factor that jumpstarted the riots/looting, and some used that incident to vent against social injustices that were already at a boiling point within their communities, as well as those who took/are taking part in the riots/looting, just to jump-on-the-bandwagon. Just my opinion, based on what I've heard on various news stations/some of what was reported here and online, and from viewing vids on it, which does not mean I don't respect others' opinions on it, even if I may not agree with some of you on this situation.

Hopefully some calm will take place in the UK soon regarding these riots, and the social concerns will be dealt with down the road, as well as dealing with those who will more than likely, have to pay a price for their part in the riots/looting eventually.

[Edited 8/9/11 20:39pm]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #207 posted 08/10/11 1:30am

SquirrelMeat

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Fauxie said:

I've witnessed first-hand similar things happen where I live in Bangkok, and often commented on how if such a thing happened in London that it would likely be dealt with better, but things seem to be similarly out of control. It's surreal to me. I'm so out of the loop now, so detached from England, it feels like a foreign country to me. Generally I'm just confused and wondering where all this has come from. I've no sense of the atmosphere, politically or otherwise, nor awareness of recent events that might be pertinent. How is Blighty doing? It's like it's not my home anymore. Maybe I should pay closer attention.

That must feel a bit wierd! biggrin

First of all, its not as bad as the media is making out. They have it as armageddon. I've been out in London throughout the problems and its generally fine.

That said, its horrific that these rats can do what they have done, but no free state can watch every street corner 24/7.

The flare ups in the other cities are nothing more than copycats. Its plain and simple looting. The shooting of an armed man in Tottenham caused a flare up at the weekend, but the general scum saw that as a opportunitiy to raid the shops over the coming days. The trail of destruction tells a tale. Footware, phones, watches, all hit first.

A lot of people saw this coming. Its not a surprise and has not grown out of one incident. There has been a huge growing problem of lack of respoct, bad parenting and labour bans of many forms of child discipline over the last few years. When these thugs were then handed a centre right government, who wanted to address the crippling government debt, I think the few brain cells they have saw that as bad news for themselves.

The worst thing about it is the volume of kids involved. Blair Babes that grew up in a welfare hand out environment but seem to feel its their duty to steal from the rich. Just listen to the attitude on the street.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

.
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Reply #208 posted 08/10/11 1:40am

Shanti0608

SquirrelMeat said:

2elijah said:

1) They murdered a man, where the latest reports stated the young man did not fire at officers. The officers fired at him. If all evidence shows that he did not "point to shoot" at officers, then what was the reason for killing him other than knowing he was carrying a gun? Had he taken the gun, pointed it at the officers in a threatening manner, then I could see that as a threat to officers, forcing them to kill him, but if he didn't point the gun at the officers at all/posed no threat at the time, what was the reason for killing him? Now until that type of evidence is presented, then the cops murdered him, while he posed no threat to them. So for now, I see that as murder.

2) Did you know in some states in the U.S. it is illegal to carry a gun, but not all people who have one illegally, are shot immediately, because they are known to be carrying one, unless they take it out and point it towards someone with intent to shoot/kill?

3) The incident was the 'jumpstart' of the looting and rioting, and yes some may have used it as an excuse to loot or riot, but there's no way you can say, that all that were out rioting did it just to get back at the rich. Many also participated in those crimes, i.e, burning buildings/businesses, etc., as their way of unleashing their anger/frustration over this young man's death. Now is there a history/major complaints of racial profiling in the UK towards specific members of communities in the UK? Like I stated before, there were many who did advantage of the situation, and took part in stealing material items/looting, attack innocent people, but many were also angry over the death of the young man, which I am not saying anyone had a right to go out and burn buildings/businesses, attack/rob innocent people, because of this incident. There are much better ways to express/handle one's anger or disgust over incidents like this.

You clearly aren't here in the streets because its not true. There is NO ONE across the entire political or public spectrum truely linking this. Even Duggans family.

And the fact that you have called it murder before the evidence is out says a lot. Carry a weapon, take the risk of this happening. Thats the rule. Written or unwritten. I grew up in Tottenham. Its the same back then as it is now.

The only people I have heard calling this something different are people watching the foriegn news or someone with an anti establishment agenda to begin with.

Spot on. As you said further down, there are so many kids involved in the looting and destruction of property. Our little town only has one grocery store on the hill, they were closing early last night. Simply because it has turned into a bunch of kids having nothing better to do than go destroy property and steal. There are dozens of videos of these looters being interviewed and NONE of them are bringing up the shooting in Tottenham.

I have live about 7 miles from Croydon where they had problems the night before last. Our shops are there and many are very old family businesses and it is very congested with what are known as "Chavs". They have no respect for their community, they simply set businesses on fire and loot electronic stores for the sheer fun of it. Nothing political, they are using this situtation to act out.

I am saddened that the majority of these incidences are going to overshadow the real issue. I am glad to see the communities pulling together though.You rarely see that happen in the US like you do here but I think it is because our towns are really small and everyone knows everyone.

On a side note: Some American have a hard time wrapping their heads around that fact that it is different here regarding carrying guns. Being American I find it refreshing to know that not everyone is walking around with a gun.

All of the English ppl that I know realise the consequences of carrying an illegal firearm.

[Edited 8/10/11 1:57am]

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Reply #209 posted 08/10/11 5:34am

TypoQueen

The young man had a weapon and he paid the price, In this country(UK) you know the consequences if you pick up a weapon. It is his parents I feel sorry for they now have to burry a son due to his stupidity.

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