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Reply #150 posted 08/09/11 8:19am

razor

catpark said:

SquirrelMeat said:



catpark said:


Those unemployment figures are debatable imo, there has been so many cuts since they got into power. If u think the UK govenment are doing good and its not enough to moan about, why is there so much violence of rioting and looting burning of buildings in London over the past 3 days?

So what would you do, if you were in charge tomorrow. How would you bring the bank acount under control and keep looters, teachers NHS staff, bin men, road campaigners etc etc happy? Not cut at all? Steal funds from private businessess and pension funding PLCs?



And to answer your question, why is there so much violence?



How about because of a complete lack of respect and morals from a generation brought up under a soft labour government that handed out cash left right and centre, and put a stop to such things a teacher and parent discipline through dear of government recrimination?


A lot of them poor teachers secondary have no control over the pupils the police dont have control over teenagers in the streets, there so much rules that people like teachers police have lost there power. I cant speak for every parent in britain i just see whats going on around me and i see a few kids in my area that do get into trouble and their parents are ripping there hair out constantly stressed out over fear there teenage sons being in gangs. A lot of this was happening when Labour where in govenment too, but it seems to escalated with the Tories in. Similiar pattern of the 80s.
If i was in power well i don't have all the answers, but something needs to change and i would do a much better job than Cameron, i know that for sure.


Really? How? You're now the PM. Tell us what you would do and prove your superiority.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #151 posted 08/09/11 8:32am

Neophyte

The fuckers hit my high street yesterday!!! Little bastard thugs!mad

"I know that living with u baby, was sometimes hard...but I'm willing 2 give it another try.
Cause nothing compares....nothing compares 2 u!"
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Reply #152 posted 08/09/11 8:45am

pald1

catpark said:

pald1 said:

A little misguided but then any one think you're living in a warzone right now.

Got news for you. A labour govt would still have to enact tough austerity plans. This economic crisis is global and gonna get a lot worse. Whoever is in power hs no choice but to make cuts.

I live in central london, this is my London so STFU. Everyone around my area is wrong for securing there homes and staying in? The shop keepers closing up early are misguided? What are u on. We was worrying not knowing whether it was gonna spread to there area last night. I saw the aftermath of the Brixtion riots in 85 i use to live around there when i was kid, this is worse. And i seem to recall the Tories where in power then, and were in power in the 81 riots too. Cameron is a terrible leader he doesnt give no hope no morale to the youths and working class then treat them like scroungers and vermin, the youths are treated like there not part of society like they have no future, they've stopped caring, the Thatcher years was the same. This was a boiling pot waiting to explode.

Actually, London doesn't belong to you. Never has.

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Reply #153 posted 08/09/11 9:06am

TypoQueen

ElectricBerry said:

Unfortunately the 'Jeremy Kyle' underclass, the butt of many jokes, which has been a simmering pot for a while is now boiling over. It's a wretched situation of screwed up parenting, broken families, generations of unemployment, leading to this mess. Unfortunately we're breeding a whole generation of idiotic morons with no sense of morality, respect for others and sense of entitlement without any graft.

The thing is this kind of behaviour has been happening for a while - there are a number of neighbourhoods and estates where residents fear leaving their homes at night due to gangs of kids hanging around street corners who don't have one iota of fear or respect for their elders or authority. However these problems have been swept under the carpet. Now that the masses have experienced this antisocial behaviour hopefully real questions will start to be asked.

It's easy to say we're going to crack down on these yobs, as David Cameron has been saying today and that's fine to contain the current situation. However there are some very serious issues addressing the social and moral fabric of our society that need to be addressed. For a long time now parents have neglected their duties as parents and the politicians have turned a blind eye and inadequately dealt with the real disparities between the haves and haves not. Unfortunately this situation is not going to resolved anytime soon.


Well said electricberry

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Reply #154 posted 08/09/11 9:32am

XxAxX

avatar

if i lived in london and my home or business, loved ones or neighbors were under attack from these losers i'd shoot only once over their heads. if they kept coming then bang! problem solved. just need the cleaning crew to come and sweep up the dead trespassers

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Reply #155 posted 08/09/11 9:37am

razor

XxAxX said:

if i lived in london and my home or business, loved ones or neighbors were under attack from these losers i'd shoot only once over their heads. if they kept coming then bang! problem solved. just need the cleaning crew to come and sweep up the dead trespassers



Thankfully guns are largely illegal in the UK. I can only imagine how much worse this would be were guns freely available to all and sundry.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #156 posted 08/09/11 9:38am

catpark

razor said:

catpark said:


A lot of them poor teachers secondary have no control over the pupils the police dont have control over teenagers in the streets, there so much rules that people like teachers police have lost there power. I cant speak for every parent in britain i just see whats going on around me and i see a few kids in my area that do get into trouble and their parents are ripping there hair out constantly stressed out over fear there teenage sons being in gangs. A lot of this was happening when Labour where in govenment too, but it seems to escalated with the Tories in. Similiar pattern of the 80s.
If i was in power well i don't have all the answers, but something needs to change and i would do a much better job than Cameron, i know that for sure.


Really? How? You're now the PM. Tell us what you would do and prove your superiority.

Are serious? Read a bit closer before u make sweeping comments about superiority. Squirrelmeat ask me what i would do if I was PM, as said i dont have all the answers...i would do a better job than Cameron...I can't speak for every parent in britian...go by what i see around me.
I hate superiority attitudes, your so barking up the wrong tree there.
FUNKNROLL! dancing jig "February 2014, wow". 'dre. nod
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Reply #157 posted 08/09/11 9:41am

XxAxX

avatar

razor said:

XxAxX said:

if i lived in london and my home or business, loved ones or neighbors were under attack from these losers i'd shoot only once over their heads. if they kept coming then bang! problem solved. just need the cleaning crew to come and sweep up the dead trespassers

Thankfully guns are largely illegal in the UK. I can only imagine how much worse this would be were guns freely available to all and sundry.

thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons

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Reply #158 posted 08/09/11 9:42am

TypoQueen

I have seen this first hand. Labour took powers away from the teachers. Unruly, disruptive, violent children suspended or expelled the schools are forced to take them back. Children knowing full well this would happen and taunt the teachers. If a child was upset the teachers could not cuddle/comfort the child due to fear they may be accused of something. The conservatives are now trying to change this.

I know people who are police officers for over 20 years they were forced to spend time on paper work and less hours on the beat under labour, conservatives are attempting to chang this.

UK has turned into a Big Brother, politically correct health and safety society, people afraid to tell kids off encase Big Brother come knocking and prosecuting you or you get sued.

We live in a mad mad world.

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Reply #159 posted 08/09/11 9:54am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

XxAxX said:

razor said:

XxAxX said: Thankfully guns are largely illegal in the UK. I can only imagine how much worse this would be were guns freely available to all and sundry.

thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons

So what do you think would happen if 200 looters had guns instead of sticks?

.
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Reply #160 posted 08/09/11 9:55am

catpark

TypoQueen said:

I have seen this first hand. Labour took powers away from the teachers. Unruly, disruptive, violent children suspended or expelled the schools are forced to take them back. Children knowing full well this would happen and taunt the teachers. If a child was upset the teachers could not cuddle/comfort the child due to fear they may be accused of something. The conservatives are now trying to change this.



I know people who are police officers for over 20 years they were forced to spend time on paper work and less hours on the beat under labour, conservatives are attempting to chang this.



UK has turned into a Big Brother, politically correct health and safety society, people afraid to tell kids off encase Big Brother come knocking and prosecuting you or you get sued.



We live in a mad mad world.




nod Exactly
Dont know about the conservative trying to change it tho biggrin But everything else i agree.
FUNKNROLL! dancing jig "February 2014, wow". 'dre. nod
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Reply #161 posted 08/09/11 10:01am

XxAxX

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

XxAxX said:

thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons

So what do you think would happen if 200 looters had guns instead of sticks?

my take on this is that war has been declared by a handful of moron punks in london. understand: i mean war. buildings burning, people being injured, innocent bystanders and their property damaged. does it get much worse than that? really?

SO i would say that even if the bloody little [bleeps] had guns on the streets, they would still be easy targets for people shooting from above, from windows. AND there are more non-protestors than there are protestors. you do the math.

i honestly do not understand why the police have not opened real fire on these little [bleeps] yet. i would BET that when real return gunfire is added, those little [bleeps] will slink home and hide. just my 2c smile

unattractive profanity edit

[Edited 8/9/11 10:04am]

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Reply #162 posted 08/09/11 10:08am

razor

XxAxX said:



razor said:


XxAxX said:

if i lived in london and my home or business, loved ones or neighbors were under attack from these losers i'd shoot only once over their heads. if they kept coming then bang! problem solved. just need the cleaning crew to come and sweep up the dead trespassers



Thankfully guns are largely illegal in the UK. I can only imagine how much worse this would be were guns freely available to all and sundry.

thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons



So far, in three days of rioting, I have heard of one death. And guess what? That's was a gang shooting.

If guns were in the mix here on any scale, there'd already be hundreds dead.

As I said, I glad to live in a country where guns are rare.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #163 posted 08/09/11 10:10am

2elijah

avatar

XxAxX said:

SquirrelMeat said:

So what do you think would happen if 200 looters had guns instead of sticks?

my take on this is that war has been declared by a handful of moron punks in london. understand: i mean war. buildings burning, people being injured, innocent bystanders and their property damaged. does it get much worse than that? really?

SO i would say that even if the bloody little [bleeps] had guns on the streets, they would still be easy targets for people shooting from above, from windows. AND there are more non-protestors than there are protestors. you do the math.

i honestly do not understand why the police have not opened real fire on these little [bleeps] yet. i would BET that when real return gunfire is added, those little [bleeps] will slink home and hide. just my 2c smile

unattractive profanity edit

[Edited 8/9/11 10:04am]

That would just make things worse because the situation started over a police shooting an unarmed man, did it not? So there's already mistrust between the police and youth. I do agree some form of action needs to be taken right away, to stop the senseless violence. Maybe bringing in the military (not to shoot at the troublemakers, because more innocent people could get hurt in the process, who have nothing to do with taking part in the violence) but maybe some tear gas to calm things down. shrug

[Edited 8/9/11 10:16am]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #164 posted 08/09/11 10:17am

XxAxX

avatar

2elijah said:

XxAxX said:

my take on this is that war has been declared by a handful of moron punks in london. understand: i mean war. buildings burning, people being injured, innocent bystanders and their property damaged. does it get much worse than that? really?

SO i would say that even if the bloody little [bleeps] had guns on the streets, they would still be easy targets for people shooting from above, from windows. AND there are more non-protestors than there are protestors. you do the math.

i honestly do not understand why the police have not opened real fire on these little [bleeps] yet. i would BET that when real return gunfire is added, those little [bleeps] will slink home and hide. just my 2c smile

unattractive profanity edit

[Edited 8/9/11 10:04am]

That would just make things worse.

i disagree. i bet citizen return fire and police return fire would clean the streets quickly and make any would-be rioter think twice.

BUT i refuse to argue this point to death. we've all been here before. the pro-carry and anti-carry threads. i ain't rehashing every single tedious argument again.

there are those people that feel guns are the root of all evil and access to them allows satan into our souls. those who think otherwise. some will argue that rioters should be met with understanding and love, with social change, while still others will opine that the rioters should get the whipping their parents failed to deliver when they were young.

such an argument on the pros and cons of owning armaments will just go on and on. without wanting to derail a lengthy discussion on turf we've covered to the point where we should, by now, understand we will, as separate individuals, NEVER reach agreement, perhaps it's best to bypass that tedium in order to stay on track here.

i stand by my opinion.

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Reply #165 posted 08/09/11 10:18am

XxAxX

avatar

razor said:

XxAxX said:

thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons

So far, in three days of rioting, I have heard of one death. And guess what? That's was a gang shooting. If guns were in the mix here on any scale, there'd already be hundreds dead. As I said, I glad to live in a country where guns are rare.

agree to disagree.

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Reply #166 posted 08/09/11 10:23am

2elijah

avatar

XxAxX said:

razor said:

XxAxX said: Thankfully guns are largely illegal in the UK. I can only imagine how much worse this would be were guns freely available to all and sundry.

thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons

I don't think that's the answer, because then you would have people turning guns on whomever they may suspect is a troublemaker or use this type situation, as an exuse to use their personal prejudices to shoot/kill those they already hate. Just remember what happened in New Orleans, when some racists took the liberty of turning guns on innocent people (including babies/children/seniors) just trying to cross over a bridge, to another town seeking help, because they heard reports of looting during Katrina, and they let their fears take over their paranoia/suspicions, and already racist thoughts.

Not to mention the two unarmed men, who were shot and killed by two racist cops, who after 6 years were finally convicted this week for that crime.

[Edited 8/9/11 10:25am]

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Reply #167 posted 08/09/11 10:27am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

I think they should herd them up and forget their human rights.

Put them in chaingangs repairing the streets they destroyed and then sent them on a years national service to Somalia to build irrigation and housing.

.
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Reply #168 posted 08/09/11 10:28am

Gunsnhalen

I have some friend's in London, and there telling me about all the craziness going on as it happens. People are just jumping on the looting bandwagon and dozens of innocent people are being robbed in teh streets, broad daylight they said disbelief

I Wonder what's next?, i live in LA and i am always wondering if something like this will happen here like they did back with the Rodney king trial. As scary as it is to say, get a couple people pissed ike in this situation and utter chaos happens....

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

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Reply #169 posted 08/09/11 10:37am

2elijah

avatar

XxAxX said:

2elijah said:

That would just make things worse.

i disagree. i bet citizen return fire and police return fire would clean the streets quickly and make any would-be rioter think twice.

BUT i refuse to argue this point to death. we've all been here before. the pro-carry and anti-carry threads. i ain't rehashing every single tedious argument again.

there are those people that feel guns are the root of all evil and access to them allows satan into our souls. those who think otherwise. some will argue that rioters should be met with understanding and love, with social change, while still others will opine that the rioters should get the whipping their parents failed to deliver when they were young.

such an argument on the pros and cons of owning armaments will just go on and on. without wanting to derail a lengthy discussion on turf we've covered to the point where we should, by now, understand we will, as separate individuals, NEVER reach agreement, perhaps it's best to bypass that tedium in order to stay on track here.

i stand by my opinion.

I stand by mine too, and all too often seen people use situations like this as an excuse to "rid society of their problems". What good will that do? The societal ills will still exist if they bring in guns to "shoot to kill".

There's already tension against the police and youth, why put both of them at each other's harm? What if innocent people who are not part of the gangs partaking in the violence are shot in the process? They need to bring in a third party, like the military to calm things down, possibly using tear gas, and capture those taking part in the violence.

Then when things calm down, they need to find a way to deal with whatever societal issues are behind this violence or it will happen again. By you agreeing to guns, then that's like giving the gangs the right to carry guns and kill the innocent as well. Nothing good comes out of that, but non-stop retaliation on both sides and it would become like a shootout scene in a Wild, Wild West movie.

With that being said, I respect your opinion, although I don't agree with you at all.

[Edited 8/9/11 11:48am]

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Reply #170 posted 08/09/11 10:40am

2elijah

avatar

Gunsnhalen said:

I have some friend's in London, and there telling me about all the craziness going on as it happens. People are just jumping on the looting bandwagon and dozens of innocent people are being robbed in teh streets, broad daylight they said disbelief

I Wonder what's next?, i live in LA and i am always wondering if something like this will happen here like they did back with the Rodney king trial. As scary as it is to say, get a couple people pissed ike in this situation and utter chaos happens....

I live in NYC and lived through quite a few riots, back in the day. You don't find riots happening here too much anymore. Now people who protest a killing such as the London killing, usually take part in marches/peaceful protests/boycotting.

[Edited 8/9/11 10:41am]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #171 posted 08/09/11 10:48am

razor

2elijah said:



XxAxX said:




SquirrelMeat said:



So what do you think would happen if 200 looters had guns instead of sticks?



my take on this is that war has been declared by a handful of moron punks in london. understand: i mean war. buildings burning, people being injured, innocent bystanders and their property damaged. does it get much worse than that? really?



SO i would say that even if the bloody little [bleeps] had guns on the streets, they would still be easy targets for people shooting from above, from windows. AND there are more non-protestors than there are protestors. you do the math.



i honestly do not understand why the police have not opened real fire on these little [bleeps] yet. i would BET that when real return gunfire is added, those little [bleeps] will slink home and hide. just my 2c smile




unattractive profanity edit



[Edited 8/9/11 10:04am]



That would just make things worse because the situation started over a police shooting an unarmed man, did it not? So there's already mistrust between the police and youth. I do agree some form of action needs to be taken right away, to stop the senseless violence. Maybe bringing in the military (not to shoot at the troublemakers, because more innocent people could get hurt in the process, who have nothing to do with taking part in the violence) but maybe some tear gas to calm things down. shrug

[Edited 8/9/11 10:16am]



Re your first sentence, the latest is that the man was armed but did not fire a shot. Still lots of uncertainty as to what actually happened though.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #172 posted 08/09/11 10:49am

razor

XxAxX said:



razor said:


XxAxX said:


thank heavens we in america still have the right to carry, so we can stand up and address any kind of potential upheaveal being wreaked on our homes and neighborhoods by a few violent morons



So far, in three days of rioting, I have heard of one death. And guess what? That's was a gang shooting. If guns were in the mix here on any scale, there'd already be hundreds dead. As I said, I glad to live in a country where guns are rare.

agree to disagree.



Sure.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #173 posted 08/09/11 10:54am

IshmaelB

2elijah said:

I live in NYC and lived through quite a few riots, back in the day. You don't find riots happening here too much anymore. Now people who protest a killing such as the London killing, usually take part in marches/peaceful protests/boycotting.

All in a nice, controlled, police-supervised "free speech zone" where people can get their aggressions worked out so they can continue with work, school and shopping come Monday.

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Reply #174 posted 08/09/11 10:55am

2elijah

avatar

razor said:

2elijah said:

That would just make things worse because the situation started over a police shooting an unarmed man, did it not? So there's already mistrust between the police and youth. I do agree some form of action needs to be taken right away, to stop the senseless violence. Maybe bringing in the military (not to shoot at the troublemakers, because more innocent people could get hurt in the process, who have nothing to do with taking part in the violence) but maybe some tear gas to calm things down. shrug

[Edited 8/9/11 10:16am]

Re your first sentence, the latest is that the man was armed but did not fire a shot. Still lots of uncertainty as to what actually happened though.

Okay, thanks for letting me know that. I saw a report yesterday that said he was unarmed, but now you say it is uncertain what actually happened. I'm wondering what was their reason for shooting him, if he didn't fire at them or did he raise the gun in a threatening manner, that cause them to kill him? I will wait/search for what other reports come out on this, with further details.

[Edited 8/9/11 10:57am]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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Reply #175 posted 08/09/11 10:59am

IshmaelB

Gunsnhalen said:

i live in LA and i am always wondering if something like this will happen here like they did back with the Rodney king trial. As scary as it is to say, get a couple people pissed ike in this situation and utter chaos happens....

I'd say utter chaos...

...is what's being protested.

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Reply #176 posted 08/09/11 11:00am

Shanti0608

Ok, in this situation it would be much worse if everyone was carrying guns. Much worse!

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Reply #177 posted 08/09/11 11:13am

ISF

SquirrelMeat said:

catpark said:

Those unemployment figures are debatable imo, there has been so many cuts since they got into power. If u think the UK govenment are doing good and its not enough to moan about, why is there so much violence of rioting and looting burning of buildings in London over the past 3 days?

So what would you do, if you were in charge tomorrow. How would you bring the bank acount under control and keep looters, teachers NHS staff, bin men, road campaigners etc etc happy? Not cut at all? Steal funds from private businessess and pension funding PLCs?

How about not spending money to try and place puppet leaders in Libya and kill Libyans?

And to answer your question, why is there so much violence?

How about because of a complete lack of respect and morals from a generation brought up under a soft labour government that handed out cash left right and centre, and put a stop to such things a teacher and parent discipline through dear of government recrimination?

I agree that is a general lack of respect and morals throughout the UK, regardless of ethnicity and class. I don't know where this stems from, though I agree parents should be stricter.

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Reply #178 posted 08/09/11 11:39am

catpark

SquirrelMeat said:

I think they should herd them up and forget their human rights.



Put them in chaingangs repairing the streets they destroyed and then sent them on a years national service to Somalia to build irrigation and housing.


Putting them into National service and sending them out to a third world country like Somali to work is a great idea. It will change them.
I remember this program on bb3 think it was called the strictest parents, they sent these two troubled teenagers from England to stay with a family in Nigeria, at first they were rude with pure attitude, the girl wouldn't do the work the parents told her do not listening to anyone wanted to smoke a lot...the guy wouldn't shave his goaty off for the school class thinking he was too cool, pure attitude. Anyway after a couple of days they was bawling to comeback home to England lol. After days past they saw people working hard for pennies lots of deprevation lots of struggling, but it changed them they started to appreciate what the family in Nigeria was trying to achieve, they started getting on well with the parents and what they had in England and apologised to their mums.
FUNKNROLL! dancing jig "February 2014, wow". 'dre. nod
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Reply #179 posted 08/09/11 11:46am

2elijah

avatar

catpark said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I think they should herd them up and forget their human rights.

Put them in chaingangs repairing the streets they destroyed and then sent them on a years national service to Somalia to build irrigation and housing.

Putting them into National service and sending them out to a third world country like Somali to work is a great idea. It will change them. I remember this program on bb3 think it was called the strictest parents, they sent these two troubled teenagers from England to stay with a family in Nigeria, at first they were rude with pure attitude, the girl wouldn't do the work the parents told her do not listening to anyone wanted to smoke a lot...the guy wouldn't shave his goaty off for the school class thinking he was too cool, pure attitude. Anyway after a couple of days they was bawling to comeback home to England lol. After days past they saw people working hard for pennies lots of deprevation lots of struggling, but it changed them they started to appreciate what the family in Nigeria was trying to achieve, they started getting on well with the parents and what they had in England and apologised to their mums.

They had a show like that in the U.S. and it pretty much gave the kids a different outlook on life.

Would have been nice to see a followup, a year later, if these kids returned to being spoiled and unappreciative, once they got settled into their comfortable lives again.

[Edited 8/9/11 11:55am]

As an American you have a right to question/call your country out on its wrongs/injustices. That doesn’t make you un-American nor does anyone have a right to tell you to leave, because you have the courage to stand up against any injustice in this count
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