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Reply #330 posted 08/14/11 6:30am

Cloudbuster

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

Cloudbuster said:

What fucking planet are you living on?

What are you seeing as changed so far? I'm seeing very little. Most of the council / police etc cuts don't take effect until next year.

What about the rest of my statement? Are you going to somehow say the conservatives are to blame for the Labour years and effect as well?

Its clear you have no love for the Cons, but we've just had a generation of Labour. They have had their crack. The current youth are the fruit. Are you proud of them????

Redundancies are already rolling out with few job vacancies for those who are affected.

Young people especially are finding work opportunities very limited.

Many disabled people are being wrongfully found fit for work by a government hired private "medical" company who are working toward target based bonuses amounting to 300m. Those who are falsely deemed well enough to work have their benefits reduced and are forced to endure six to twelve month long appeals and tribunals that are costing the tax payer thousands.

Over 40% of the apellants are successful, getting their benefit reinstated only to then find themselves just a few months later having to go through the whole humiliating process again. Many of them are now more ill because of this.

But don't expect to find this reported in much of the mainstream news as Murdoch's muppets have lumped the disabled in with all the other "undesirables" known to the nation at large as "benefit scroungers". The poor, the disabled, the young and the elderly and especially women and children have all been targeted by this government. The cap on housing benefit of which many of these people rely on to scrape by will likely see a good number of them homeless, but hey, "I'm all right, Jack."

Also Citizen's Advice centres are set to close nationwide when people will be needing them more than ever.

And let's not forget the cutting of up to £100 off of pensioners winter fuel payments at a time when gas is going to rise 19%, electricity at least 14% and food and clothing prices are soaring.

So yeah, the Conservatives are indeed doing something, but the wrong fucking thing.

The rich created this mess and once again it's the poor and vulnerable that pay for it.

As for Labour... they don't even exist anymore, they're just Conservatives under a different name. It was Labour that dreamt up many of the cuts and who their targets would be. This along with the fact that Nick Clegg jumped straight into bed with the Tories proves that there's no difference between any of them. Democracy is dead.

I may not be proud of the rioters but I'm even less proud of the sickening system that created them.

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Reply #331 posted 08/14/11 11:29am

ConsciousConta
ct

Cloudbuster said:

SquirrelMeat said:

What are you seeing as changed so far? I'm seeing very little. Most of the council / police etc cuts don't take effect until next year.

What about the rest of my statement? Are you going to somehow say the conservatives are to blame for the Labour years and effect as well?

Its clear you have no love for the Cons, but we've just had a generation of Labour. They have had their crack. The current youth are the fruit. Are you proud of them????

Redundancies are already rolling out with few job vacancies for those who are affected.

Young people especially are finding work opportunities very limited.

Many disabled people are being wrongfully found fit for work by a government hired private "medical" company who are working toward target based bonuses amounting to 300m. Those who are falsely deemed well enough to work have their benefits reduced and are forced to endure six to twelve month long appeals and tribunals that are costing the tax payer thousands.

Over 40% of the apellants are successful, getting their benefit reinstated only to then find themselves just a few months later having to go through the whole humiliating process again. Many of them are now more ill because of this.

But don't expect to find this reported in much of the mainstream news as Murdoch's muppets have lumped the disabled in with all the other "undesirables" known to the nation at large as "benefit scroungers". The poor, the disabled, the young and the elderly and especially women and children have all been targeted by this government. The cap on housing benefit of which many of these people rely on to scrape by will likely see a good number of them homeless, but hey, "I'm all right, Jack."

Also Citizen's Advice centres are set to close nationwide when people will be needing them more than ever.

And let's not forget the cutting of up to £100 off of pensioners winter fuel payments at a time when gas is going to rise 19%, electricity at least 14% and food and clothing prices are soaring.

So yeah, the Conservatives are indeed doing something, but the wrong fucking thing.

The rich created this mess and once again it's the poor and vulnerable that pay for it.

As for Labour... they don't even exist anymore, they're just Conservatives under a different name. It was Labour that dreamt up many of the cuts and who their targets would be. This along with the fact that Nick Clegg jumped straight into bed with the Tories proves that there's no difference between any of them. Democracy is dead.

I may not be proud of the rioters but I'm even less proud of the sickening system that created them.

The fact that the system exists means that the "poor" have allowed it to exist and by extension have co-created it. I think you give too much responsibility on the "rich".

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Reply #332 posted 08/14/11 11:48am

Cloudbuster

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ConsciousContact said:

The fact that the system exists means that the "poor" have allowed it to exist and by extension have co-created it. I think you give too much responsibility on the "rich".

Well the poor have just taken a stand in the only way that seems to get their voices heard, so let's see what changes it may bring.

Probably none.

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Reply #333 posted 08/14/11 12:09pm

Cloudbuster

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Make that positive changes for the poor.

No doubt it'll bring negative changes. Heavier and more brutal policing will likely be one result of this mess.

And that'll be just grand considering how racist the police force already is, now they'll add childish vengence to the mix.

The reason these riots kicked off was because several police attacked a young black girl with batons.

Idiots never learn.

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Reply #334 posted 08/14/11 3:38pm

Cloudbuster

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And let's not play Devil's advocate or the naivety card here.

Wealth = power. By that universally acknowledged definition the poor are indeed powerless in the big scheme of things.

I think it was Martin Luther King who said "A riot is the language of the unheard." A fair comment.

Isn't it somewhat ironic that the government have labelled the acts of the rioters "sheer criminality" when the biggest criminals and looters are the government themselves.

We have a right to be angry but let's also keep it real.

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Reply #335 posted 08/14/11 8:46pm

TonyVanDam

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Reply #336 posted 08/14/11 9:47pm

pald1

Cloudbuster said:

And let's not play Devil's advocate or the naivety card here.

Wealth = power. By that universally acknowledged definition the poor are indeed powerless in the big scheme of things.

I think it was Martin Luther King who said "A riot is the language of the unheard." A fair comment.

Isn't it somewhat ironic that the government have labelled the acts of the rioters "sheer criminality" when the biggest criminals and looters are the government themselves.

We have a right to be angry but let's also keep it real.

The 'naivety card'. You just pulled that expression straight out of your ass didn't you? I think you may actually be the first human being to say it. Nice.

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Reply #337 posted 08/15/11 1:37am

Cloudbuster

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Here's a report that appeared on BBC News that confirms the "rumour" that the trouble started after an attack by the police on a 16 year old girl.

Apparently this report was never aired again.

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Reply #338 posted 08/15/11 1:40am

Cloudbuster

avatar

pald1 said:

The 'naivety card'. You just pulled that expression straight out of your ass didn't you? I think you may actually be the first human being to say it. Nice.

Nah, google it.

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Reply #339 posted 08/15/11 3:47am

XxAxX

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

ConsciousContact said:

The fact that the system exists means that the "poor" have allowed it to exist and by extension have co-created it. I think you give too much responsibility on the "rich".

Well the poor have just taken a stand in the only way that seems to get their voices heard, so let's see what changes it may bring.

Probably none.

respectfully disagree. normally, i am all for the robinhood underdog types.

but those riots were not led by any such ideal. those were common thugs theiving and trashing for the sheer violent joy of acting out. there is NOTHING honorable about burning down the homes and business of other poor people. several innocent people died because of that mess. millions of dollars in damage done and the working class divided against itself even more...

nothing to be proud of, imo

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Reply #340 posted 08/15/11 4:08am

Cloudbuster

avatar

XxAxX said:

Cloudbuster said:

Well the poor have just taken a stand in the only way that seems to get their voices heard, so let's see what changes it may bring.

Probably none.

respectfully disagree. normally, i am all for the robinhood underdog types.

but those riots were not led by any such ideal. those were common thugs theiving and trashing for the sheer violent joy of acting out. there is NOTHING honorable about burning down the homes and business of other poor people. several innocent people died because of that mess. millions of dollars in damage done and the working class divided against itself even more...

nothing to be proud of, imo

Peaceful protests don't appear to achieve anything anymore, sadly. So we'll have to agree to disagree on the sentence that you bolded.

I don't know which news reports you have seen but some rioters have said their actions were a reaction to the cuts and the political status quo.

It's possible their voices have been quelled by an agenda driven media but those reasons for rioting were definately put forward.

The actual outburst began because a girl was attacked by police, an outburst that was undoubtedly a politically motivated protest.

Obviously many joined in just for the hell of it and tragically, yeah, there have been some deaths as a result.

The whole situation is a disgrace. I never claimed there was anything to be proud of.

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Reply #341 posted 08/15/11 6:59am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

SquirrelMeat said:

What are you seeing as changed so far? I'm seeing very little. Most of the council / police etc cuts don't take effect until next year.

What about the rest of my statement? Are you going to somehow say the conservatives are to blame for the Labour years and effect as well?

Its clear you have no love for the Cons, but we've just had a generation of Labour. They have had their crack. The current youth are the fruit. Are you proud of them????

Those who are falsely deemed well enough to work have their benefits reduced and are forced to endure six to twelve month long appeals and tribunals that are costing the tax payer thousands. Over 40% of the apellants are successful, getting their benefit reinstated only to then find themselves just a few months later having to go through the whole humiliating process again.

So yeah, the Conservatives are indeed doing something, but the wrong fucking thing.

So after appeal, the majority (60%) were still proved to be fit for work? If thats not proving the case that billions of taxpayers money was being wasted, I don't know what is.

And the conservatives are not getting it right.

But what would you do? Everyone is moaning, but no one is suggesting anything different.

.
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Reply #342 posted 08/15/11 7:14am

SquirrelMeat

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ISF said:

SquirrelMeat said:

He was an innocent man. We all know that. If was mistaken idenity,of a terrorist bomber. Tragic. An unlawful death.

But murder? Do you understand the term?

You are still avoiding the questions previously. What are you trying to say? Its seems, reading between the lines that you think the Police are a secret murder squad, and that you think its predominantly aimed at black people. You also seem to see racism everywhere you look.

Is that what you believe? Is that why you condone attacked on police? State what you think, rather than trying to scratch around on wiki for tragic incidents to try and prove a point you haven't actuall made very clear.

I know that when a policeman kills, he knows it is very, very unlikely he will be punished.

The two men look absolutely nothing alike. The police then made up lies that were later disproven. They said he jumped the ticket barrier, for instance. This was later proven to be a lie.

I have seen examples of ''mistaken identity'' a few times myself. A young black child having his head slammed on to the concrete by police, only for them to say he was the wrong person, and jump into their car and drive off. You can choose not to believe me, or believe that it was an isolated incident, that is up to you.

I acknowledge that there are members of the police who do a noble job and protect citizens. I am also aware that many of them enjoy abusing their power, which has been seen time and time again. I don't think it is aimed just at black people. However, I know many black people, and people from ethnic minorities are harassed by police on a regular basis.

Perhaps I shoud not use the word murder, seeing as you believe no policeman can be guilty of such a crime.

I have not condoned attacks on police even once, so do not make up lies.

So you think the police are still institutionally racist. You see them harassing black people and enthnic minorities, but you don't mention white?

And your are proving a point by pointing through mistaken identity. But it was the white guy that was shot!

The use of the word murder is just wrong, how you have equate that to my view of the police is anyones guess.

You have condoned attacks on police, and you had your thread shut down.

You have tried to differenciate between police and police equipment, but they are the same thing. You can't burn down a police station when there might be a police man in it. You can't firebomb a police van, without full knowledge that you don't burn the police woman inside.

Thats like saying the world trade centre was the target, and the people in it don't count.

.
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Reply #343 posted 08/15/11 7:24am

Cloudbuster

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

Cloudbuster said:

Those who are falsely deemed well enough to work have their benefits reduced and are forced to endure six to twelve month long appeals and tribunals that are costing the tax payer thousands. Over 40% of the apellants are successful, getting their benefit reinstated only to then find themselves just a few months later having to go through the whole humiliating process again.

So yeah, the Conservatives are indeed doing something, but the wrong fucking thing.

So after appeal, the majority (60%) were still proved to be fit for work? If thats not proving the case that billions of taxpayers money was being wasted, I don't know what is.

And the conservatives are not getting it right.

But what would you do? Everyone is moaning, but no one is suggesting anything different.

Actually no, many of those 60% are not in fact well enough to work but are deemed so because the targets the medical company want to hit are more important than people's well being.

Some don't have either the will or the help available to endure the appeals process. They're stuck on JSA with no-one wanting to employ them.

And to aid the disabled even further the government are now talking about removing people's right to appeal, so that option may not be there much longer for those who do have the strength to go through it.

Brilliant.

Benefit fraud is minuscule compared to the fraud that goes on at the top level of government.

Of course, no-one wants to talk about that. They'd rather sneer at those less fortunate than themselves instead.

What would I do? Well, if I could I'd wave a magic wand and make wealth more evenly distributed so that the conditions that created this monster weren't in place to begin with.

.

[Edited 8/17/11 2:03am]

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Reply #344 posted 08/15/11 8:29am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

What would I do? Well, if I could wave a magic wand I'd make sure wealth was more evenly distributed so that the conditions that created this monster weren't in place to begin with.

The problem is, what is "evenly".

Mathmatical even = the purest communist theory.

Anything else is personal interpretation of even depending on where you sit in the wealth chain.

It very easy to name call the government for looking after the rich, but the majority of the country voted for it.

.
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Reply #345 posted 08/15/11 8:36am

Cloudbuster

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

Cloudbuster said:

What would I do? Well, if I could wave a magic wand I'd make sure wealth was more evenly distributed so that the conditions that created this monster weren't in place to begin with.

The problem is, what is "evenly".

Mathmatical even = the purest communist theory.

Anything else is personal interpretation of even depending on where you sit in the wealth chain.

It very easy to name call the government for looking after the rich, but the majority of the country voted for it.

No, the majority voted for policies that the government turned their back on as soon as they got into power.

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Reply #346 posted 08/15/11 8:45am

SquirrelMeat

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Cloudbuster said:

SquirrelMeat said:

The problem is, what is "evenly".

Mathmatical even = the purest communist theory.

Anything else is personal interpretation of even depending on where you sit in the wealth chain.

It very easy to name call the government for looking after the rich, but the majority of the country voted for it.

No, the majority voted for policies that the government turned their back on as soon as they got into power.

Thats nothing new. I can't remember a government that can't be accused of that in one way or another.

But the voting slip asked us to tick a member/party, not individual policies. We got what we voted for.

.
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Reply #347 posted 08/15/11 8:47am

Cloudbuster

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SquirrelMeat said:

We got what we voted for.

Well you might have. lol

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Reply #348 posted 08/15/11 8:50am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

SquirrelMeat said:

We got what we voted for.

Well you might have. lol

No. The nation did. lol

.
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Reply #349 posted 08/15/11 9:29am

pald1

Cloudbuster said:

pald1 said:

The 'naivety card'. You just pulled that expression straight out of your ass didn't you? I think you may actually be the first human being to say it. Nice.

Nah, google it.

Nah, I'm fine.

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Reply #350 posted 08/15/11 11:32am

TonyVanDam

16-year-old girl battered by riot police (NSFW due to violent content)

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Reply #351 posted 08/15/11 12:52pm

Cloudbuster

avatar

Thanks for posting the clips, fella. I'm sure the media will find a way to spin it in favour of the police, if so their position will be indefensible.

Proof, if any more was needed, that shameful behaviour doesn't discriminate. The reaction of the police was abhorrent.

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Reply #352 posted 08/15/11 1:02pm

pald1

Cloudbuster said:

Thanks for posting the clips, fella. I'm sure the media will find a way to spin it in favour of the police, if so their position will be indefensible.

Proof, if any more was needed, that shameful behaviour doesn't discriminate. The reaction of the police was abhorrent.

Don't think the media will bother, dad. Can't make head or tail of it.

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Reply #353 posted 08/15/11 1:06pm

Cloudbuster

avatar

pald1 said:

Don't think the media will bother, dad. Can't make head or tail of it.

I thought you had neither the time nor inclination for back and forths. Get back in yer cage! mad

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Reply #354 posted 08/15/11 1:08pm

pald1

Cloudbuster said:

pald1 said:

Don't think the media will bother, dad. Can't make head or tail of it.

I thought you had neither the time nor inclination for back and forths. Get back in yer cage! mad

Ha...was waiting for that response. Like you need to know what i do.

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Reply #355 posted 08/16/11 2:56am

XxAxX

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

XxAxX said:

respectfully disagree. normally, i am all for the robinhood underdog types.

but those riots were not led by any such ideal. those were common thugs theiving and trashing for the sheer violent joy of acting out. there is NOTHING honorable about burning down the homes and business of other poor people. several innocent people died because of that mess. millions of dollars in damage done and the working class divided against itself even more...

nothing to be proud of, imo

Peaceful protests don't appear to achieve anything anymore, sadly. So we'll have to agree to disagree on the sentence that you bolded.

I don't know which news reports you have seen but some rioters have said their actions were a reaction to the cuts and the political status quo.

It's possible their voices have been quelled by an agenda driven media but those reasons for rioting were definately put forward.

The actual outburst began because a girl was attacked by police, an outburst that was undoubtedly a politically motivated protest.

Obviously many joined in just for the hell of it and tragically, yeah, there have been some deaths as a result.

The whole situation is a disgrace. I never claimed there was anything to be proud of.

it's going to take a planet-wide revolution to rid us of those bloated fuckers. and, then we'll just have to do it again in another fifty years when the revolutonaries become as corrupt as thjose they deposed...

can't we just stay home, watch american idol and be happy? confused

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Reply #356 posted 08/17/11 4:35am

Tremolina

I haven't posted my thoughts on this issue yet, for two reasons.

One I wanted to wait and see what would happen and get some background information to it all before I would speak.

Two, I wasn't surprised at all. Not because i saw this one coming or anything, but because riots aren't anything new in England. They happen every 5-10 years or so. So what's new really?

Well, I guess, that the scale, intensity and sheer brutality of these latest riots is kinda new. I mean all the lootings and fires really. Just devestating how much damage has been done that way.

I feel especially bad about the many small shop owners who have had their places trashed and looted. Their entire livelihood destroyed with some of them probably not properly insured either.

You would wonder why, and why didn't the police act any sooner? So I gathered some background information on it all and about the rioters, by reading up on the first court cases that are being brought against them. It appears that many come from rather poor neighboorhoods with high crime and unemployment rates. Many simply joined the riots when they saw and heard what was going down in their neighboorhood. They didn't really have any reason to join other than following what everybody else was doing already, in their often also drug and alcohol boosted rampage.

There is never really any excuse for looting and destruction of property. But destroying your own neighboorhood just because others were doing it too? Plain stupid, crazy and totally void of any morals and values. A very dark, bitter and empty spirituality. Sad people really.

So what about the police? The thing that surprised me the most about all this shit, was their lazy ass, cowardly response. Whatever happened to the UK's "zero tolerance" policy? I mean shit, when you even say fuck you to a copper there, you can get smacked and taken into custody within a heartbeat. Got a milligram of weed still in your pocket, that you couldn't even roll a fucking midget joint from, they could still arrest you and take you to jail for it.

But what did they do in London? Seemed like they were so scared and impressed they didn't do shit for two days! Why not clean the streets immediately with horses, watercanons and tear gas? Hell, in Holland we "bleeding heart liberals" already bring out the water canon when it's just a bunch of sorry ass college kids protesting! Seriously, I really thought the police response was some of the weakest shit I have ever seen. So weak, that I think the government should be held partly liable for all the damage done.

[Edited 8/17/11 4:57am]

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Reply #357 posted 08/17/11 6:41am

ISF

SquirrelMeat said:

ISF said:

I know that when a policeman kills, he knows it is very, very unlikely he will be punished.

The two men look absolutely nothing alike. The police then made up lies that were later disproven. They said he jumped the ticket barrier, for instance. This was later proven to be a lie.

I have seen examples of ''mistaken identity'' a few times myself. A young black child having his head slammed on to the concrete by police, only for them to say he was the wrong person, and jump into their car and drive off. You can choose not to believe me, or believe that it was an isolated incident, that is up to you.

I acknowledge that there are members of the police who do a noble job and protect citizens. I am also aware that many of them enjoy abusing their power, which has been seen time and time again. I don't think it is aimed just at black people. However, I know many black people, and people from ethnic minorities are harassed by police on a regular basis.

Perhaps I shoud not use the word murder, seeing as you believe no policeman can be guilty of such a crime.

I have not condoned attacks on police even once, so do not make up lies.

So you think the police are still institutionally racist. You see them harassing black people and enthnic minorities, but you don't mention white?

Because white British people get hassled far less

http://www.dailymail.co.u...d-out.html

And your are proving a point by pointing through mistaken identity. But it was the white guy that was shot!

I didn't say they don't abuse or kill white people, just less frequently wink

The use of the word murder is just wrong, how you have equate that to my view of the police is anyones guess.

You have condoned attacks on police

No I didn't.

You have tried to differenciate between police and police equipment, but they are the same thing. You can't burn down a police station when there might be a police man in it. You can't firebomb a police van, without full knowledge that you don't burn the police woman inside.

In Tottenham, where the police cars were burned down, the police officers was dragged out and forced to flee.

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Reply #358 posted 08/17/11 1:17pm

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

Tremolina said:

I haven't posted my thoughts on this issue yet, for two reasons.

One I wanted to wait and see what would happen and get some background information to it all before I would speak.

Two, I wasn't surprised at all. Not because i saw this one coming or anything, but because riots aren't anything new in England. They happen every 5-10 years or so. So what's new really?

Well, I guess, that the scale, intensity and sheer brutality of these latest riots is kinda new. I mean all the lootings and fires really. Just devestating how much damage has been done that way.

I feel especially bad about the many small shop owners who have had their places trashed and looted. Their entire livelihood destroyed with some of them probably not properly insured either.

You would wonder why, and why didn't the police act any sooner? So I gathered some background information on it all and about the rioters, by reading up on the first court cases that are being brought against them. It appears that many come from rather poor neighboorhoods with high crime and unemployment rates. Many simply joined the riots when they saw and heard what was going down in their neighboorhood. They didn't really have any reason to join other than following what everybody else was doing already, in their often also drug and alcohol boosted rampage.

There is never really any excuse for looting and destruction of property. But destroying your own neighboorhood just because others were doing it too? Plain stupid, crazy and totally void of any morals and values. A very dark, bitter and empty spirituality. Sad people really.

So what about the police? The thing that surprised me the most about all this shit, was their lazy ass, cowardly response. Whatever happened to the UK's "zero tolerance" policy? I mean shit, when you even say fuck you to a copper there, you can get smacked and taken into custody within a heartbeat. Got a milligram of weed still in your pocket, that you couldn't even roll a fucking midget joint from, they could still arrest you and take you to jail for it.

But what did they do in London? Seemed like they were so scared and impressed they didn't do shit for two days! Why not clean the streets immediately with horses, watercanons and tear gas? Hell, in Holland we "bleeding heart liberals" already bring out the water canon when it's just a bunch of sorry ass college kids protesting! Seriously, I really thought the police response was some of the weakest shit I have ever seen. So weak, that I think the government should be held partly liable for all the damage done.

[Edited 8/17/11 4:57am]

I hear you...but to correct you, the last major riots were in the 80s, the other incidents were demonstrations, such as student protests, anti war march etc. In defence of the Police they were caught unawares, this broke out in many different areas simultaneously and such a spread of rioting over different parts of the capital has never happened before.

They also held back because they recently got into a lot of trouble of heavy handed policing over the G20 summit, so I guess they were playing it safe.

All the politicians were on holiday at the same time which was crazy and I think this added to the impression that people could do what they liked as there seemed to be no-one in charge.

The businesses can actually claim damages from the Police and the Government, an old Riot Act law from the 1800s means that they are responsible if a riot goes out of control, so it could end up costing them a lot.

The goverment and courts are now handing out very strict sentences, such as 4 years for shoplifting...as a deterrent I guess...whether this works or provokes more anger remains to be seen.

And then our Chancellor talks about repealing the 50% tax on rich people....duh....that's only gonna make people at the lower echelons of society more pissed off.

[Edited 8/17/11 13:19pm]

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Reply #359 posted 08/18/11 5:53am

Tremolina

TheFreakerFantastic said:

I hear you...but to correct you, the last major riots were in the 80s, the other incidents were demonstrations, such as student protests, anti war march etc.

this just london... wink

In defence of the Police they were caught unawares, this broke out in many different areas simultaneously and such a spread of rioting over different parts of the capital has never happened before.

You don't disagree that they did too little for two days?

I think the the police ALWAYS be AWARE of possible riots.

And they DO have the experience with these kind of riots too.

They also held back because they recently got into a lot of trouble of heavy handed policing over the G20 summit, so I guess they were playing it safe.

You guess that. I guess they were scared and unprepared. And I wouldn't be surprised if there was no real tough action either because the riots didn't spread to the center or rich neighboorhoods.

All the politicians were on holiday at the same time which was crazy and I think this added to the impression that people could do what they liked as there seemed to be no-one in charge.

Oh come on, as if when the pm and members of parliament are baking in the marbella sun, nobody is in charge in the UK anymore lol...

The businesses can actually claim damages from the Police and the Government, an old Riot Act law from the 1800s means that they are responsible if a riot goes out of control, so it could end up costing them a lot.

how much generally?

The goverment and courts are now handing out very strict sentences, such as 4 years for shoplifting...as a deterrent I guess...whether this works or provokes more anger remains to be seen.

They get angry for being punished for their crimes?

And then our Chancellor talks about repealing the 50% tax on rich people....duh....that's only gonna make people at the lower echelons of society more pissed off.

[Edited 8/17/11 13:19pm]

so they trash their own neighboorhood again instead of the center or some rich folks place. makes sense.

[Edited 8/18/11 5:59am]

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Forums > Politics & Religion > Riot hits north London after police shooting death