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Reply #300 posted 08/12/11 9:08am

2elijah

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

2elijah said:

Oh, I don't believe anyone said it couldn't happen in the U.S. The U.S. has history of riots, that is nothing new. Especially when it involved police officers murdering unarmed black males, which NYC has a long history of that, and still has a problem with 'racial profiling' and it amazes me that some would rather turn a blind eye to it being a realization,rather than accepting that there 'is a problem'. Not to mention the demonstrations/riots, protesting the Vietnam War back in the 60s, where truckloads of people were arrested at various demonstrations.

The riot regarding Rodney King, I believe, was the most publicized riot, back in the 90s, and I don't remember any more riots after that, taking place since then. Seems no matter how much that vid was shown, you had some racist idiots stating "he shouldn't have moved" or that "he deserved it". Nobody deserves to be beaten like that by racist, maniac cops who were out of control. This is what pissed off a lot in that community, because situations like this was happening all the time, and no one cared to listen, and Rodney's attack by the cops, set off an already 'boiling hot' situation in a community, that complained about the harassment by cops in their community. Not enough elected offiicals were 'listening or cared' and the situation just went on too long, and that is why so many came out in anger and just didn't give a damn what they were tearing up at that time. Of course, not the way to go, but that's how many of the people in that community was feeling at the time of the riots.

[Edited 8/12/11 8:32am]

Oh its ok 2elijah this was not aimed at you i think your comments on the riots have been wise, someone earlier said it could never happen in America hence i posted it.

lol Oh it's cool, I didn't take it like that, but I was interested in the link you posted about the LA riots, and I remembered all the riots I used to hear about in the early 60s in the U.S. during the Vietnam War, and after that in the U.S.

Anyway, on another note, I was watching Cspan the other day, when the Parliament was in session discussing the riots, and one gentleman asked an interesting question. He asked Cameron if they would consider capturing/arresting some of the rioters and put them in Wembley Stadium, like they did in the U.S. in 1971 when they arrested rioters in Washington, and put about 40,000 of them in the DC stadium, and Cameron said something like, no he'd rather continue using Wembley for Sports events. I laughed a little when he said that, and at the same time was curious about the 1971 situation in DC, that the gentleman was referring to, since I never heard of that happening, but I'll be looking for info on that on the net, to see what I can find on it.

[Edited 8/12/11 9:13am]

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Reply #301 posted 08/12/11 9:11am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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2elijah said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Oh its ok 2elijah this was not aimed at you i think your comments on the riots have been wise, someone earlier said it could never happen in America hence i posted it.

lol Oh it's cool, I didn't take it like that, but I was interested in the link you posted about the LA riots, and I remembered all the riots I used to hear about in the early 60s in the U.S. during the Vietnam War, and after that in the U.S.

Anyway, on another note, I was watching Cspan the other day, when the Parliament was in session discussing the riots, and one gentleman asked an interesting question. He asked Cameron if they would consider capturing/arresting some of the rioters and put them in Wembley Stadium, like they did in the U.S. in 1971 when they arrested rioters in Washington, and put about 40,000 of them in the DC stadium, and Cameron said something like, no he'd rather continue using Wembley for Sports events. I laughed a little when he said that, and at the same time was curious about the 1971 situation in DC that the gentelman was referring to, since I never heard of that happening, but I'll be looking for info on that on the net, to see what I can find on it.

Yes i hadn't heard about that either...interesting.

It's good you are taking an interest in this though. It has really shocked me personally and a lot of people, no-one really predicted it would or could happen so radically as it did. I think part of the issue is that all the authority figures in govt were on holiday so I think there was a degree of opportunism and a way of rebellion, however if they were mad they should just protest don't steal or loot.

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Reply #302 posted 08/12/11 9:42am

2elijah

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

2elijah said:

lol Oh it's cool, I didn't take it like that, but I was interested in the link you posted about the LA riots, and I remembered all the riots I used to hear about in the early 60s in the U.S. during the Vietnam War, and after that in the U.S.

Anyway, on another note, I was watching Cspan the other day, when the Parliament was in session discussing the riots, and one gentleman asked an interesting question. He asked Cameron if they would consider capturing/arresting some of the rioters and put them in Wembley Stadium, like they did in the U.S. in 1971 when they arrested rioters in Washington, and put about 40,000 of them in the DC stadium, and Cameron said something like, no he'd rather continue using Wembley for Sports events. I laughed a little when he said that, and at the same time was curious about the 1971 situation in DC that the gentelman was referring to, since I never heard of that happening, but I'll be looking for info on that on the net, to see what I can find on it.

Yes i hadn't heard about that either...interesting.

It's good you are taking an interest in this though. It has really shocked me personally and a lot of people, no-one really predicted it would or could happen so radically as it did. I think part of the issue is that all the authority figures in govt were on holiday so I think there was a degree of opportunism and a way of rebellion, however if they were mad they should just protest don't steal or loot.

Yes, that used to happen in the U.S. People used to react by rioting/looting, burning their own communities/businesses down, without thinking before acting, to conduct this in an organized fashion, but this was because they acted out in anger, frustration from community concerns that has been ignored by elected officials for so long, and there was no planned, organized protest/march or community leaders who had time to gather people together to protest for the incidents they were reacting. to. Like I stated, to my knowledge, not so sure, the last riots I heard about was the LA riots in the states, but in NYC, they don't riot/loot when shooting incidents involving the police vs unamed individuall anymore, they handle it by organized protests to have their concerns heard.

People protest/march in NYC and around the U.S. all the time, for many political/socio-eoncomic concerns, on a daily basis, whether political/socio-economic or if it's picketing/striking against their employers.

What these youths should have done to voice their concerns, whether it involved police brutality/harassment in one community or concerns involving lack of youth programs/jobs, they should have gathered and protested together, in an organized fashion or boycotted businesses, which would have brought some attention to their issues.

Where were their community leaders? There's many ways their concerns could have been heard, without rioting/looting, no matter how long it took for someone to pay attention, because now the rioting/looting may take away from having their concerns at the top of the table, so-to-speak, and now many may be facing prison time.

[Edited 8/12/11 9:55am]

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Reply #303 posted 08/12/11 9:55am

ISF

There are people protests here in the UK, too. UK media gave very little coverage of this incident and of the protest.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

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Reply #304 posted 08/12/11 10:01am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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2elijah said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Yes i hadn't heard about that either...interesting.

It's good you are taking an interest in this though. It has really shocked me personally and a lot of people, no-one really predicted it would or could happen so radically as it did. I think part of the issue is that all the authority figures in govt were on holiday so I think there was a degree of opportunism and a way of rebellion, however if they were mad they should just protest don't steal or loot.

Yes, that used to happen in the U.S. People used to react by rioting/looting, burning their own communities/businesses down, without thinking before acting, to conduct this in an organized fashion, but this was because they acted out in anger, frustration from community concerns that has been ignored by elected officials for so long, and there was no planned, organized protest/march or community leaders who had time to gather people together to protest for the incidents they were reacting. to. Like I stated, to my knowledge, not so sure, the last riots I heard about was the LA riots in the states, but in NYC, they don't riot/loot when shooting incidents involving the police vs unamed individuall anymore, they handle it by organized protests to have their concerns heard.

People protest/march in NYC and around the U.S. all the time, for many political/socio-eoncomic concerns, on a daily basis, whether political/socio-economic or if it's picketing/striking against their employers.

What these youths should have done to voice their concerns, whether it involved police brutality/harassment in one community or concerns involving lack of youth programs/jobs, they should have gathered and protested together, in an organized fashion or boycotted businesses, which would have brought some attention to their issues.

Where were their community leaders? There's many ways their concerns could have been heard, without rioting/looting, no matter how long it took for someone to pay attention, because now the rioting/looting may take away from having their concerns at the top of the table, so-to-speak, and now many may be facing prison time.

[Edited 8/12/11 9:55am]

Ah, but 2elijah I think this could still happen in the US now...i don't think its a case that it only happened in the past...history repeats itself...

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Reply #305 posted 08/12/11 10:04am

2elijah

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ISF said:

There are people protests here in the UK, too. UK media gave very little coverage of this incident and of the protest.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

Oh okay, so they do engage in peaceful protests. Maybe this could have been the way for the youth in the UK to handle the M.Duggan's shooting? Sometimes when frustrations come to a boiling point and the same, type incidents keep happening, within specific communities (like similar incidents in the U.S), some people get tired of talking and begging the powers-that-be to listen to their cries of concern, and it gets to a point, where they feel their lives/community concerns/existence are not valued or respected, as those outside their communities, whereas if an incident happened, outside their community, and more attention/concern/respect is paid to that community, often times it is no surprise that people result to violence through their frustrations, and sometimes, even though violence isn't the answer, only then is 'recognition or attention' given to their issues . We've seen this happen in many countries, where people just get fed up with being, socially/politically/mentally abused and ignored.Keep in mind I'm not condoning the rioting/looting.

I remember taking a course in community activism, and I'll always remember this saying by a community activist ,who said "Rub raw the sores of discontent" in other words, make noise until they hear you, be persistent in your cause, until you get them to pay attention. This is what 'organized' protests/marches are about it, bringing light or attention to specific socio-economic/political or community concerns.

Right now, with all the tension of the riots, many citizens are angry at the violence/rioting/looting that took place, so many are probably not going to be 'feeling empathatic for the conditions within specific communities right now, because a lot of merchants/business owners lost their businesses, and some their homes, due to the riots/looting. But eventually, when things get back to normal, the citizens and powers-that-be in the UK, will still have to find a way to communicate with residents in many communities, where the have problems with increased 'stop and search' methods used by their police, which apparently is a major concern for the people in the community this is happening too, and that can't continue to be ignored or future problems may arise. Also, the issue of youths who are joining gangs, and causing more trouble in areas already plagued with socio-economic issues has to be dealt with as well. Lot to be worked on I suppose.

[Edited 8/12/11 10:22am]

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Reply #306 posted 08/12/11 10:34am

2elijah

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

2elijah said:

Yes, that used to happen in the U.S. People used to react by rioting/looting, burning their own communities/businesses down, without thinking before acting, to conduct this in an organized fashion, but this was because they acted out in anger, frustration from community concerns that has been ignored by elected officials for so long, and there was no planned, organized protest/march or community leaders who had time to gather people together to protest for the incidents they were reacting. to. Like I stated, to my knowledge, not so sure, the last riots I heard about was the LA riots in the states, but in NYC, they don't riot/loot when shooting incidents involving the police vs unamed individuall anymore, they handle it by organized protests to have their concerns heard.

People protest/march in NYC and around the U.S. all the time, for many political/socio-eoncomic concerns, on a daily basis, whether political/socio-economic or if it's picketing/striking against their employers.

What these youths should have done to voice their concerns, whether it involved police brutality/harassment in one community or concerns involving lack of youth programs/jobs, they should have gathered and protested together, in an organized fashion or boycotted businesses, which would have brought some attention to their issues.

Where were their community leaders? There's many ways their concerns could have been heard, without rioting/looting, no matter how long it took for someone to pay attention, because now the rioting/looting may take away from having their concerns at the top of the table, so-to-speak, and now many may be facing prison time.

[Edited 8/12/11 9:55am]

Ah, but 2elijah I think this could still happen in the US now...i don't think its a case that it only happened in the past...history repeats itself...

Oh of course, I don't think I said it couldn't. If things get worse economically it could definitely happen. We have a major gang problem throughout the U.S., that in my opinion, seems to keep getting swept under the rug. We have daily problems with gangs terrorizing many communities, do you think these elected officials would band together and make this their number one issue? When a kid is scared to go to school, in fear of getting beat up by bullies or approached by some young, gang members, stopping and asking him if he belongs to a gang, then possibly hurting that kid. There was a story not too long ago in Chicago about a kid who was killed just walking through, a group of teens who were fighting, that he had nothing to do with and was killed by other teens.

It seems to me the U.S. doesn't give a rat's ass damn about the safety of our youth or seniors, especially in communities of color, where parents and even other youth are afraid to come forward and rat out these gang members. There's tension/mistrust between police departments and individuals from communities of color, because of the years of racial profiling/harassment, and murders of unarmed black/hispanic males.

I've written my concerns about safety of our youth, youth joining gangs, to elected offiicials, with no response. It's like if it's not in your backyard, no one gives a damn. They only seem to remember the citizens in specific communities when it's election time. I'm not saying every community is like that, but there's just way too many that have to deal with these experiences on a daily basis.

Everyday you turn on the news and you more than likely will hear about a youth killing or attacking another. Then there's the issue of fathers M.I.A., missing in action, mainly within black families, which is a damn shame, and hurtful to our communities. When you have many, fatherless young men without a father in the home, searching for their male role model, often times, in the wrong places, it's not hard to know what one may expect from that.

The U.S. puts on a fake face to other countries, and make it seem like life is grand here, and we Americans should be so lucky, and in many ways we are, and I can't say I don't appreciate the blessings. But this is a country plagued with many problems, too many Americans ignore. It's a "I got mine, not worried if my neighbor doesn't" society now...and then some. shrug

[Edited 8/12/11 10:38am]

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Reply #307 posted 08/12/11 10:38am

pald1

ISF said:

pald1 said:

Hung up is an understatement. Dude has obviously been on the dark side himself. Anway, a fine rebuttal.

You think I'm a criminal because I oppose the police killing innocent people? What a ridiculous person you are.

You're prepared to use violence as a way to get your point across. That's criminal.

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Reply #308 posted 08/12/11 10:38am

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

2elijah said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Ah, but 2elijah I think this could still happen in the US now...i don't think its a case that it only happened in the past...history repeats itself...

Oh of course, I don't think I said it couldn't. If things get worse economically it could definitely happen. We have a major gang problem throughout the U.S., that in my opinion, seems to keep getting swept under the rug. We have daily problems with gangs terrorizing many communities, do you think these elected officials would band together and make this the number one issue? There was a story not too long ago in Chicago about a kid who was killed just walking through, a group of teens who were fighting, that he had nothing to do with and was killed by other teens.

It seems to me the U.S. doesn't give a rat's ass damn about the safety of our youth or seniors, especially in communities of color, where parents and even other youth are afraid to come forward and rat out these gang members. There's tension/mistrust between police departments and individuals from communities of color, because of the years of racial profiling and murders of unarmed black/hispanic males.

I've written my concerns about safety of our youth, youth joining gangs, to elected offiicials, with no response. It's like if it's not in your backyard, no one gives a damn. Everyday you turn on the news and youth are killing and attacking each other. Then there's the issue of fathers M.I.A., missing in action, mainly within black families, which is a damn shame, and hurtful to our communities. When you have many, fatherless young men without a father in the home, searching for their male role model, often times, in the wrong places, it's not hard to know what you can expect

The U.S. puts on a fake face to other countries, and make it seem like life is grand here, and we Americans should be so lucky, and in many ways w are, and I can't say I don't appreciate the blessings. But this is a country plagues with many problems, too many Americans ignore. It's a "I got mine, not worried if my neighbor doesn't" society now...and then some. shrug

Yes, i like it when Prince wrote quite a few songs about gun and gang culture around 93 with The Undertaker and songs like The Voice. I think these problems are endemic in most western societies and the trouble is that although people like physically closer to each other they are emotionally in separate ghettos so difficult for them to relate to each other. I think community cohesion is important and street rehabilitation projects are very important too. Perhaps also the focus on religion and positive things can try and break the cycle.

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Reply #309 posted 08/12/11 10:46am

2elijah

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

2elijah said:

Oh of course, I don't think I said it couldn't. If things get worse economically it could definitely happen. We have a major gang problem throughout the U.S., that in my opinion, seems to keep getting swept under the rug. We have daily problems with gangs terrorizing many communities, do you think these elected officials would band together and make this the number one issue? There was a story not too long ago in Chicago about a kid who was killed just walking through, a group of teens who were fighting, that he had nothing to do with and was killed by other teens.

It seems to me the U.S. doesn't give a rat's ass damn about the safety of our youth or seniors, especially in communities of color, where parents and even other youth are afraid to come forward and rat out these gang members. There's tension/mistrust between police departments and individuals from communities of color, because of the years of racial profiling and murders of unarmed black/hispanic males.

I've written my concerns about safety of our youth, youth joining gangs, to elected offiicials, with no response. It's like if it's not in your backyard, no one gives a damn. Everyday you turn on the news and youth are killing and attacking each other. Then there's the issue of fathers M.I.A., missing in action, mainly within black families, which is a damn shame, and hurtful to our communities. When you have many, fatherless young men without a father in the home, searching for their male role model, often times, in the wrong places, it's not hard to know what you can expect

The U.S. puts on a fake face to other countries, and make it seem like life is grand here, and we Americans should be so lucky, and in many ways w are, and I can't say I don't appreciate the blessings. But this is a country plagues with many problems, too many Americans ignore. It's a "I got mine, not worried if my neighbor doesn't" society now...and then some. shrug

Yes, i like it when Prince wrote quite a few songs about gun and gang culture around 93 with The Undertaker and songs like The Voice. I think these problems are endemic in most western societies and the trouble is that although people like physically closer to each other they are emotionally in separate ghettos so difficult for them to relate to each other. I think community cohesion is important and street rehabilitation projects are very important too. Perhaps also the focus on religion and positive things can try and break the cycle.

(Bolded part) That's what Mayor Corey Booker of Newark, NJ has been doing, going intot the trenches of gang territory and trying to save lives, talk to young men and women who join gangs, and doing his best to work with them. He doesn't have to do it, but he does.

It's too bad we don't have more elected officials that don't run from these type situations, and try to find some ways, to work with the communities, and get to these young people, before they choose a life of crime, and terrorize others for the joy of it. It makes it harder for the good kids who are not in gangs, want an education/future, go to school, but often society lumps the good kids (primarily those from community of color) in with the kids who choose to take the wrong path in life, and immediately judge the good kids as troublemakers, just based on their skin color. So much work to do. shrug

Anyway, this thread isn't about the U.S. so don't want to take away from what the thread is about, but it was nice chatting with ya and making comparisons on the issue.

[Edited 8/12/11 10:50am]

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Reply #310 posted 08/12/11 10:59am

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

2elijah said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Yes, i like it when Prince wrote quite a few songs about gun and gang culture around 93 with The Undertaker and songs like The Voice. I think these problems are endemic in most western societies and the trouble is that although people like physically closer to each other they are emotionally in separate ghettos so difficult for them to relate to each other. I think community cohesion is important and street rehabilitation projects are very important too. Perhaps also the focus on religion and positive things can try and break the cycle.

(Bolded part) That's what Mayor Corey Booker of Newark, NJ has been doing, going intot the trenches of gang territory and trying to save lives, talk to young men and women who join gangs, and doing his best to work with them. He doesn't have to do it, but he does.

It's too bad we don't have more elected officials that don't run from these type situations, and try to find some ways, to work with the communities, and get to these young people, before they choose a life of crime, and terrorize others for the joy of it. It makes it harder for the good kids who are not in gangs, want an education/future, go to school, but often society lumps the good kids (primarily those from community of color) in with the kids who choose to take the wrong path in life, and immediately judge the good kids as troublemakers, just based on their skin color. So much work to do. shrug

Anyway, this thread isn't about the U.S. so don't want to take away from what the thread is about, but it was nice chatting with ya and making comparisons on the issue.

[Edited 8/12/11 10:50am]

Thanks 2 elijah wink

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Reply #311 posted 08/12/11 11:36am

ISF

pald1 said:

ISF said:

You think I'm a criminal because I oppose the police killing innocent people? What a ridiculous person you are.

You're prepared to use violence as a way to get your point across. That's criminal.

I said I understand people attacking police property when peaceful protests are constantly ignored.

At best you downplay civilian deaths at the hands of the police, and at worst are a supporter of the police murdering innocent people and getting away with it.

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Reply #312 posted 08/12/11 12:04pm

2elijah

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

2elijah said:

(Bolded part) That's what Mayor Corey Booker of Newark, NJ has been doing, going intot the trenches of gang territory and trying to save lives, talk to young men and women who join gangs, and doing his best to work with them. He doesn't have to do it, but he does.

It's too bad we don't have more elected officials that don't run from these type situations, and try to find some ways, to work with the communities, and get to these young people, before they choose a life of crime, and terrorize others for the joy of it. It makes it harder for the good kids who are not in gangs, want an education/future, go to school, but often society lumps the good kids (primarily those from community of color) in with the kids who choose to take the wrong path in life, and immediately judge the good kids as troublemakers, just based on their skin color. So much work to do. shrug

Anyway, this thread isn't about the U.S. so don't want to take away from what the thread is about, but it was nice chatting with ya and making comparisons on the issue.

[Edited 8/12/11 10:50am]

Thanks 2 elijah wink

No problem, glad we were able to share our opinions.

Always smile in the face of adversity. smile
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Reply #313 posted 08/12/11 12:34pm

pald1

ISF said:

pald1 said:

You're prepared to use violence as a way to get your point across. That's criminal.

I said I understand people attacking police property when peaceful protests are constantly ignored.

At best you downplay civilian deaths at the hands of the police, and at worst are a supporter of the police murdering innocent people and getting away with it.

Your first point: I'm glad you agree with me.

Your second point: You mind makes these crazy leaps. It tells me a lot about you. You have no idea what my views are. These are your own projections.

Are you quite young?

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Reply #314 posted 08/12/11 1:46pm

ISF

You said I am prepared to use violence, and that I have been on the ''dark side'' myself. You then claim that I judged you unfairly!

I said I understand the damaging of police property.

If you cannot distinguish between the two, that is very sad.

I hope you and your family are never murdered by the police, because you will have very little to say.

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Reply #315 posted 08/12/11 1:54pm

pald1

ISF said:

You said I am prepared to use violence, and that I have been on the ''dark side'' myself. You then claim that I judged you unfairly!

I said I understand the damaging of police property.

If you cannot distinguish between the two, that is very sad.

I hope you and your family are never murdered by the police, because you will have very little to say.

Your last comment basically affirms my sense of your age.

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Reply #316 posted 08/12/11 1:54pm

mcmeekle

avatar

ISF said:

You said I am prepared to use violence, and that I have been on the ''dark side'' myself. You then claim that I judged you unfairly!

I said I understand the damaging of police property.

If you cannot distinguish between the two, that is very sad.

I hope you and your family are never murdered by the police, because you will have very little to say.

I'm sure if he was murdered by the Police he would have nothing to say. confused

Unless by ouija board...... hmmm

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Reply #317 posted 08/12/11 1:58pm

pald1

mcmeekle said:

ISF said:

You said I am prepared to use violence, and that I have been on the ''dark side'' myself. You then claim that I judged you unfairly!

I said I understand the damaging of police property.

If you cannot distinguish between the two, that is very sad.

I hope you and your family are never murdered by the police, because you will have very little to say.

I'm sure if he was murdered by the Police he would have nothing to say. confused

Unless by ouija board...... hmmm

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen.

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Reply #318 posted 08/12/11 2:27pm

ISF

Well done. You pointed out a mistake in my writing. I meant murdered or harmed. As in I hope you are and your family aren't harmed, and your family members aren't murdered.

Of course you would like to use that mistake as a conclusion to this argument. You have nothing more to say, and understandably so.


I am a crazy seven year old left wing conspiracy theorist/criminal, and you are a 40 year old BNP member who praises murder and brutality (especially when carried out against the poor and ethnic minorities).

Nice discussion.

[Edited 8/12/11 14:39pm]

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Reply #319 posted 08/12/11 5:05pm

pald1

ISF said:

Well done. You pointed out a mistake in my writing. I meant murdered or harmed. As in I hope you are and your family aren't harmed, and your family members aren't murdered.

Of course you would like to use that mistake as a conclusion to this argument. You have nothing more to say, and understandably so.


I am a crazy seven year old left wing conspiracy theorist/criminal, and you are a 40 year old BNP member who praises murder and brutality (especially when carried out against the poor and ethnic minorities).

Nice discussion.

[Edited 8/12/11 14:39pm]

Ha. This hardly dignifies a response but it made me laugh...

First paragraph. The only interesting thing you said was contained within the first sentence. The rest was white noise.

Second paragraph. This talk is babyish. Again with your projections. I'm from a different country...your closeted mind assumes I would/should know such references.

I have plenty more to say, though I would assume your relentless ad hominem attacks means there's very little left in your arsenal - and I don't mean of the throwing bricks kind.

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Reply #320 posted 08/12/11 5:44pm

ISF

Let's stop talking about ourselves.

What else do you have to say on police brutality (or whatever you would choose to call it)?

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Reply #321 posted 08/12/11 7:02pm

pald1

ISF said:

Let's stop talking about ourselves.

What else do you have to say on police brutality (or whatever you would choose to call it)?

I can't keep repeating myself. I feel like I'm arguing against a creationist. You have your beliefs and there's nothing I can say otherwise.

I only make this broad point about the society you are lucky to live in. It essentially promotes enlightenment values...from Locke, Paine, Jefferson, to Einstein, you are the benefactor of two centuries worth of commitment to reason, human civility, and an egagement with discussion.

British culture has gifted the world with much of these values, But not you. Your preferred response to that you disagree with: smash shit up.

I can't say it any clearer than that. I'll just have to assume it went through this time.

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Reply #322 posted 08/13/11 4:39am

SquirrelMeat

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ISF said:

pald1 said:

You're prepared to use violence as a way to get your point across. That's criminal.

I said I understand people attacking police property when peaceful protests are constantly ignored.

At best you downplay civilian deaths at the hands of the police, and at worst are a supporter of the police murdering innocent people and getting away with it.

Who exactly? You keep sprouting this as some kind of defence but you don't seem to back it up with anything. Where are all these murders??

So far I have only heard you mention some who was killed in the Uk in possession of an illegal firearm, someone who died of a heart attack and someone who wasn't even killed! Not a murder in sight.

If you want to be taken seriously, at least back it up. At the moment you sound as unjustified at the criminals smashing up the streets.

.
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Reply #323 posted 08/13/11 4:52am

ISF

Am I correct in saying you also believe that David Emmanuel aka Smiley Culture went to his kitchen during a police raid to make a cup of tea and stabbed himself?!

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Reply #324 posted 08/13/11 5:11am

SquirrelMeat

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catpark said:

SquirrelMeat said:

What we do know is that the majority of arrests are under 18. That means their moral compass was set exclusively under a social government control. Their look on life as a young adult was shaped in the mid to late term of Labour control.

That doesn't mean labour are fully responsible, but I find it laughable when life time labour supporters try to blame the coalition for whats going on, when the cuts haven't even taken effect yet.

Cuts have been made already. EMA axed last year, college tutition fees allowance axed this year, rent allowances cut for people under 35 last year, a community halls are closing in my area, youth centre has closed this year, Oaps schemes axed this year, a large social housing estate with thousands of tenants who've been living there decades is being torn down, the land has be sold off by the govenment to foreign private company last year. And im sure theres more, theses are the ones ive only heard about, God knows what else has been cut.

EMA /Tutiton fees. Thats not a cut, that addresses an inequality where some people felt it was there right to take payers money to fund there choice to take further education at the expense of those who were either not clever enough or did not choose to go.

Rent allowances cut for people under 35? Benefits you mean.

Community halls closing? Never good. But why don't the community run it?

OAP schemes. The only cut I'm aware of is a reduction of bus services.

Large social housing estate pulled down for people who have lived there for decades. How many think there council house is a right for life, rather than a temporary privilage to help you on the ladder? The point of the housing seems to have been forgotten.

So the fast majority of cuts you are refering to are from benefits rather than services. And why are the cuts there? Because Labour made so many state dependant the cost got out of control and the countries finances went into meltdown.

Cuts are re-addressing what caused the overdraft in the first place. What is your prefered solution, keep living outside our means and tax the larger population even more?

That will create even more state dependancy and a more resentful wider population.

I keep hearing people slagging off the government, and I keep hearing screaming against the likes of the conservatives, like some tribal hatred that flies in the face of common sense.

What I never seem to hear are alternative ideas. Its all moan moan moan, while the only people tackling the debt are the government.

Now I'm no Tory, but at least they are trying to sort it out. I think they should be harder on the banks and I think they are creating inequality in other areas, but the realistic alternative is Labour, who created the current generation of teenagers we saw breaking our society up and debt that has brought us to our knees. And of course, they are the ones who bailed the banks out with all the tax payers money.

What do you think should be done? Put labour back, keep growing generation anger and discrespect? Create more state dependancy and build up dept so we can end up like Greece?

.
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Reply #325 posted 08/13/11 5:20am

SquirrelMeat

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ISF said:

Am I correct in saying you also believe that David Emmanuel aka Smiley Culture went to his kitchen during a police raid to make a cup of tea and stabbed himself?!

I always thought that one was dodgy. But nothing was proven either way. A stupid as it sounds that he stabbed himself, its equally as stupid to think a bunch of police offices felt like visiting a washed up drug dealing DJ with the urge to stab him.

Can you actually find some cases where witnessess saw police murder innocent people? Without that, you simple look like a paranoid establishment hater.

.
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Reply #326 posted 08/13/11 5:23am

SquirrelMeat

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TheFreakerFantastic said:

catpark said:

SquirrelMeat said: Cuts have been made already. EMA axed last year, college tutition fees allowance axed this year, rent allowances cut for people under 35 last year, a community halls are closing in my area, youth centre has closed this year, Oaps schemes axed this year, a large social housing estate with thousands of tenants who've been living there decades is being torn down, the land has be sold off by the govenment to foreign private company last year. And im sure theres more, theses are the ones ive only heard about, God knows what else has been cut.

Oh and don't forget that ludicrous plan to sell off the forests which thankfully has been rejected after mass opposition!

So your example of a tory cut is something that wasn't cut........ok......

.
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Reply #327 posted 08/13/11 5:58am

ISF

SquirrelMeat said:

ISF said:

Am I correct in saying you also believe that David Emmanuel aka Smiley Culture went to his kitchen during a police raid to make a cup of tea and stabbed himself?!

I always thought that one was dodgy. But nothing was proven either way. A stupid as it sounds that he stabbed himself, its equally as stupid to think a bunch of police offices felt like visiting a washed up drug dealing DJ with the urge to stab him.

Can you actually find some cases where witnessess saw police murder innocent people? Without that, you simple look like a paranoid establishment hater.

The murder of Jean Charles De Menezes had a number of witnesses. He was an innocent man (unless you think having ''foreign'' looks, or wearing a jacket on a warm day makes you guilty).

The man on the left is the one the police say was the target, the man on the right is one who was shot dead.

Jean Charles de Menezes Hussain Osman

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Reply #328 posted 08/13/11 6:16am

SquirrelMeat

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ISF said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I always thought that one was dodgy. But nothing was proven either way. A stupid as it sounds that he stabbed himself, its equally as stupid to think a bunch of police offices felt like visiting a washed up drug dealing DJ with the urge to stab him.

Can you actually find some cases where witnessess saw police murder innocent people? Without that, you simple look like a paranoid establishment hater.

The murder of Jean Charles De Menezes had a number of witnesses. He was an innocent man (unless you think having ''foreign'' looks, or wearing a jacket on a warm day makes you guilty).

The man on the left is the one the police say was the target, the man on the right is one who was shot dead.

Jean Charles de Menezes Hussain Osman

He was an innocent man. We all know that. If was mistaken idenity,of a terrorist bomber. Tragic. An unlawful death.

But murder? Do you understand the term?

You are still avoiding the questions previously. What are you trying to say? Its seems, reading between the lines that you think the Police are a secret murder squad, and that you think its predominantly aimed at black people. You also seem to see racism everywhere you look.

Is that what you believe? Is that why you condone attacked on police? State what you think, rather than trying to scratch around on wiki for tragic incidents to try and prove a point you haven't actuall made very clear.

.
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Reply #329 posted 08/13/11 6:31am

ISF

SquirrelMeat said:

ISF said:

The murder of Jean Charles De Menezes had a number of witnesses. He was an innocent man (unless you think having ''foreign'' looks, or wearing a jacket on a warm day makes you guilty).

The man on the left is the one the police say was the target, the man on the right is one who was shot dead.

Jean Charles de Menezes Hussain Osman

He was an innocent man. We all know that. If was mistaken idenity,of a terrorist bomber. Tragic. An unlawful death.

But murder? Do you understand the term?

You are still avoiding the questions previously. What are you trying to say? Its seems, reading between the lines that you think the Police are a secret murder squad, and that you think its predominantly aimed at black people. You also seem to see racism everywhere you look.

Is that what you believe? Is that why you condone attacked on police? State what you think, rather than trying to scratch around on wiki for tragic incidents to try and prove a point you haven't actuall made very clear.

I know that when a policeman kills, he knows it is very, very unlikely he will be punished.

The two men look absolutely nothing alike. The police then made up lies that were later disproven. They said he jumped the ticket barrier, for instance. This was later proven to be a lie.

I have seen examples of ''mistaken identity'' a few times myself. A young black child having his head slammed on to the concrete by police, only for them to say he was the wrong person, and jump into their car and drive off. You can choose not to believe me, or believe that it was an isolated incident, that is up to you.

I acknowledge that there are members of the police who do a noble job and protect citizens. I am also aware that many of them enjoy abusing their power, which has been seen time and time again. I don't think it is aimed just at black people. However, I know many black people, and people from ethnic minorities are harassed by police on a regular basis.

Perhaps I shoud not use the word murder, seeing as you believe no policeman can be guilty of such a crime.

I have not condoned attacks on police even once, so do not make up lies.

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