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Reply #270 posted 08/11/11 1:52pm

V10LETBLUES

DarlingDiana said:

V10LETBLUES said:

That's quite a broad brush you mop with.

But I do see it a bit curious how we in the west perceives this, and how we blessed the technology of Twitter, Facebook and instant messages for organizing and rallying the people in the middle east and Africa to challenge their governments. Whereas here, the officials are not applying the same blessed ointment on Blackberry's BBM or the ordinary citizens who rushed to the streets in protest/riot.

Ohh how we like to see the world only through the window with our favorite views.





[Edited 8/11/11 10:25am]

It's a very soft brush I'm mopping with actually. I'm censoring myself because the minute you say they are drug-fucked, spoiled, stupid kids who think it's fun to fuck shit up, then you've crossed the line of sensitivity. These spoiled shits living in a first-world democracy think they are fucking Tunisians. And left-wing retards around the world think they are too! Comparing this shit to the Arab spring. What the fuck? The poor, oppressed welfare recipients of the UK with free health care, public transport, public amenities, democratic elections, torching family owned businesses because the government made some budget cuts. Give me a break!

I do not disagree.

But there are other windows to peer out of too.

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Reply #271 posted 08/11/11 2:11pm

V10LETBLUES

Regarding the riots and mayhem. Shiting on where you eat and live is never cool, regardless of the country. When these animals are gotten under control, they are left with even worse living conditions.

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Reply #272 posted 08/11/11 2:16pm

razor

V10LETBLUES said:

Regarding the riots and mayhem. Shiting on where you eat and live is never cool, regardless of the country. When these animals are gotten under control, they are left with even worse living conditions.




Not quite thte point I think, but true.
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #273 posted 08/11/11 4:31pm

ISF

pald1 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

You seem hung up on it being about colour, and there is no proof either way.

The death of Cynthia Jarret is tragic, but it could be as simple as she tried to stop the police coming into her flat, despite them having a warrant. She was a 20 stone woman and her heart gave out. Whether she had a heart attack and fell over or whether she was pushed aside and fell over, it was clearly not a deliberate act to kill and there is nothing to say colour had anything to do with it. Even the daughter didn't try to say the police tried to do her in.

In regard to "cherry". This is a tragic fuck up. It was wrong. But the police were not there to hunt down an innocent black women, they were there, armed, because they believed her son was in the house with a gun and had a previous. A fuck up by the police.

In regard to Duggan, the IPCC have already confirmed he did not fire. They never said he did. That was all the conspiracy nuts. That have confirmed he was carrying an illegal firearm.

Any death is tragic, but I'm not cutting anyone slack when they are carrying a firearm in the UK. They get what coming to them. White, black, yellow.

The police can't win. They have to protect an unarmed public from lowlife with guns and batons, then people take a pop at them for dealing with things so hard.

I'm still not sure what your point is. You have been sprouting hearsay as fact, condoning attacks on police equipment and pointing to 25 year old incidents like they are somehow linked to teenage thugs smashing up whole communities to steal trainers and phones.

What exactly are you trying to say?

Hung up is an understatement. Dude has obviously been on the dark side himself. Anway, a fine rebuttal.

You think I'm a criminal because I oppose the police killing innocent people? What a ridiculous person you are.

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Reply #274 posted 08/11/11 4:55pm

DarlingDiana

V10LETBLUES said:

Regarding the riots and mayhem. Shiting on where you eat and live is never cool, regardless of the country. When these animals are gotten under control, they are left with even worse living conditions.

Good point. If these riots were in anyway a reaction to the increased occurance of random police searches, particularly of black citizens, as some have suggested (although I don't think many of the rioters had a deeper thought then "YEAH! LET'S FUCK SHIT UP!!") then they've made matters a lot worse for themselves. Because police are going to be a lot more present in the cities now, they are going to be given more authority, random patdowns in the street are going to become more common. If this was in anyway supposed to demonstrate a political point then they were really, really stupid. This just hurt your cause way more than any unjust policing ever could.

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Reply #275 posted 08/11/11 5:46pm

2elijah

avatar

DarlingDiana said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Regarding the riots and mayhem. Shiting on where you eat and live is never cool, regardless of the country. When these animals are gotten under control, they are left with even worse living conditions.

Good point. If these riots were in anyway a reaction to the increased occurance of random police searches, particularly of black citizens, as some have suggested (although I don't think many of the rioters had a deeper thought then "YEAH! LET'S FUCK SHIT UP!!") then they've made matters a lot worse for themselves. Because police are going to be a lot more present in the cities now, they are going to be given more authority, random patdowns in the street are going to become more common. If this was in anyway supposed to demonstrate a political point then they were really, really stupid. This just hurt your cause way more than any unjust policing ever could.

I think the extra searches will happen, but I also think, even though the riots/looting was not the way to go, as well as destroying one's community, that this will bring attention to certain community concerns, specifically youth involved in gang activity or other acts of criminality.

On Cspan today, Cameron stated, that he believed (paraphrasing) that a lot of what led to the riots/looting, were certain community situations that were overlloked/ignored allowed to continue for far too long, and they will be evaluating and looking into ways to deal with those concerns, so that this type of incident doesn't happen again.

Cameron was also asked by someone named "Lammy" if he would visit "Tottenham" because many of the residents there lost their homes, due to the rioting/looting by members of their community, and Cameron said he will visit that community, as well as others affected by the rioting/looting.

Also, if you watched any of the vids of the rioting/looting, many of the rioters/looters were from various communities, racial/ethnic backgrounds, participating in the riots/looting. So it wasn't limited to one specific racial/ethnic group, doing the rioting/looting, as some indicated earlier in this thread.

[Edited 8/11/11 17:48pm]

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Reply #276 posted 08/11/11 5:51pm

razor

2elijah said:



DarlingDiana said:




V10LETBLUES said:


Regarding the riots and mayhem. Shiting on where you eat and live is never cool, regardless of the country. When these animals are gotten under control, they are left with even worse living conditions.





Good point. If these riots were in anyway a reaction to the increased occurance of random police searches, particularly of black citizens, as some have suggested (although I don't think many of the rioters had a deeper thought then "YEAH! LET'S FUCK SHIT UP!!") then they've made matters a lot worse for themselves. Because police are going to be a lot more present in the cities now, they are going to be given more authority, random patdowns in the street are going to become more common. If this was in anyway supposed to demonstrate a political point then they were really, really stupid. This just hurt your cause way more than any unjust policing ever could.



I think the extra searches will happen, but I also think, even though the riots/looting was not the way to go, as well as destroying one's community, that this will bring attention to certain community concerns, specifically youth involved in gang activity or other acts of criminality.



On Cspan today, Cameron stated, that he believed (paraphrasing) that a lot of what led to the riots/looting, were certain community situations that were overlloked/ignored allowed to continue for far too long, and they will be evaluating and looking into ways to deal with those concerns, so that this type of incident doesn't happen again.



Cameron was also asked by someone named "Lammy" if he would visit "Tottenham" because many of the residents there lost their homes, due to the rioting/looting by members of their community, and Cameron said he will visit that community, as well as others affected by the rioting/looting.



Also, if you watched any of the vids of the rioting/looting, many of the rioters/looters were from various communities, racial/ethnic backgrounds, participating in the riots/looting. So it wasn't limited to one specific racial/ethnic group, doing the rioting/looting, as some indicated earlier in this thread.




[Edited 8/11/11 17:48pm]



David Lammy is the MP for tottenham. Just FYI
"He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; and he that dares not reason is a slave." - William Drummond
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Reply #277 posted 08/11/11 5:58pm

2elijah

avatar

razor said:

2elijah said:

I think the extra searches will happen, but I also think, even though the riots/looting was not the way to go, as well as destroying one's community, that this will bring attention to certain community concerns, specifically youth involved in gang activity or other acts of criminality.

On Cspan today, Cameron stated, that he believed (paraphrasing) that a lot of what led to the riots/looting, were certain community situations that were overlloked/ignored allowed to continue for far too long, and they will be evaluating and looking into ways to deal with those concerns, so that this type of incident doesn't happen again.

Cameron was also asked by someone named "Lammy" if he would visit "Tottenham" because many of the residents there lost their homes, due to the rioting/looting by members of their community, and Cameron said he will visit that community, as well as others affected by the rioting/looting.

Also, if you watched any of the vids of the rioting/looting, many of the rioters/looters were from various communities, racial/ethnic backgrounds, participating in the riots/looting. So it wasn't limited to one specific racial/ethnic group, doing the rioting/looting, as some indicated earlier in this thread.

[Edited 8/11/11 17:48pm]

David Lammy is the MP for tottenham. Just FYI

Thanks. I saw his name when he spoke, but didn't catch the title, shown under his name.

[Edited 8/12/11 8:33am]

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Reply #278 posted 08/11/11 6:22pm

elmer

DarlingDiana said:

It's disturbing that people in America look on at the riots in England with great despair that the same thing is not happening here. Are you nuts? Drunken teenagers ravaging the cities, driving fear into citizens, looting small businesses. You want that? I know what you want, you want a citizen's revolution. You want a lower/working class uprising. But don't mistake what is happening in England for a political revolution. They aren't targetting parliament house, or the banking instutions, they are targetting family owned small businesses, many of which are run by muslims and immigrants, so don't confuse this as being racial either. It's opportunistic. That's all it is. It wasn't a peaceful demonstration that got out of hand. Drunken punks just went nuts because they thought they had an opportunity to do so. What's really unfortunate about all this is that because left-wing people around the world who wishfully think these riots are politically and socio-economically motivated, the British Parliament will likely now covene to pass new laws on public demonstrations to further restrict real, legitimate political demonstrations.

[Edited 8/11/11 9:17am]

There surely were both political and opportunistic motivations for these disturbances, why assume one and exclude the other? Even though I expect most of the rioters wouldn't have declared themselves politically motivated, nor known a political statement if it hit them on the head, they were still carrying out actions in a political climate where they exist as 'underclass', basically second class citizens. In their mind law and order and private property are just the tools by which one group dominates another. That they turned on the mildly if-at-all prosperous living near to them just shows the ghettoized nature of their inner city estates.

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Reply #279 posted 08/12/11 1:43am

SquirrelMeat

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I'd be interested to know, how many English thought before this kicked off that it was only a matter of time? I've had the odd political debate with my dad and I've been saying for a couple of years that there will be an underclass uprising because his generation had so much of the national wealth locked up. Whilst I was suprised how blatant it was, when it happened on the first night I said to Mrs Squirrel, this could be the start.

Also, why do you think nothing happened in Wales, NI or Scotland?

.
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Reply #280 posted 08/12/11 1:46am

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

I'd be interested to know, how many English thought before this kicked off that it was only a matter of time? I've had the odd political debate with my dad and I've been saying for a couple of years that there will be an underclass uprising because his generation had so much of the national wealth locked up. Whilst I was suprised how blatant it was, when it happened on the first night I said to Mrs Squirrel, this could be the start.

Also, why do you think nothing happened in Wales, NI or Scotland?

A: Less immigrant communities, more social cohesion (stronger national identity in those regions), smaller cities therefore more initimate bonds between police and community, more money spent on them per head from govt than in England.

[Edited 8/12/11 1:47am]

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Reply #281 posted 08/12/11 1:49am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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To those that say it couldn't happen in America:

Analysis of LA riots vs UK riots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...d-14501282

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Reply #282 posted 08/12/11 2:17am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

To those that say it couldn't happen in America:

Analysis of LA riots vs UK riots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...d-14501282

Unfortunatley, the UK is usually on the front of the curve on these types of things. Particularly as it seems to be one of the only countries actually dealing with its debt.

I expect to see something similar in in Europe soon. The US could be the worse of the lot, if they actually start owning up to their debt.

.
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Reply #283 posted 08/12/11 5:07am

mcmeekle

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I'd be interested to know, how many English thought before this kicked off that it was only a matter of time? I've had the odd political debate with my dad and I've been saying for a couple of years that there will be an underclass uprising because his generation had so much of the national wealth locked up. Whilst I was suprised how blatant it was, when it happened on the first night I said to Mrs Squirrel, this could be the start.

Also, why do you think nothing happened in Wales, NI or Scotland?

A: Less immigrant communities, more social cohesion (stronger national identity in those regions), smaller cities therefore more initimate bonds between police and community, more money spent on them per head from govt than in England.

[Edited 8/12/11 1:47am]

I believe London (which has a larger population than Scotland, Wales or NI) gets the highest per-head spend in the UK.

It would more likely be imagined differences (or unfairness) in Govt. spend rather than actual or tangible differences.

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Reply #284 posted 08/12/11 5:22am

mcmeekle

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Reply #285 posted 08/12/11 5:42am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

mcmeekle said:

From http://lootalikes.tumblr.com/ eek

Classic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol lol lol

.
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Reply #286 posted 08/12/11 6:14am

2freaky4church
1

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This is a super tough issue for the left. First, we know that there are social reasons to explain the riots, but at the same time you don't want to look like you justify the wonton violence.

Sometimes real truth is hard to swallow. If we just see this as thugs going wild we will miss the big picture, like we missed why muslims might want to harm us.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #287 posted 08/12/11 6:18am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

mcmeekle said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

A: Less immigrant communities, more social cohesion (stronger national identity in those regions), smaller cities therefore more initimate bonds between police and community, more money spent on them per head from govt than in England.

[Edited 8/12/11 1:47am]

I believe London (which has a larger population than Scotland, Wales or NI) gets the highest per-head spend in the UK.

It would more likely be imagined differences (or unfairness) in Govt. spend rather than actual or tangible differences.

London does get the highest, but only because it carries the national burden of security, parliament and transport of the capital. The people don't get it. Equally, Edinburgh gets more per head than the rest of Scotland.

Nationally the English get £7,500 per head, and Scottish £9,000. Thats 5% of the population getting £6b more than the rest.

But then, throw in the north seal oil ownership arguement, and you can find statistics would swing the figures either way. I don't think there will ever be a definitve answer.

.
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Reply #288 posted 08/12/11 6:30am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

This is a super tough issue for the left. First, we know that there are social reasons to explain the riots, but at the same time you don't want to look like you justify the wonton violence.

Sometimes real truth is hard to swallow. If we just see this as thugs going wild we will miss the big picture, like we missed why muslims might want to harm us.

What we do know is that the majority of arrests are under 18. That means their moral compass was set exclusively under a social government control. Their look on life as a young adult was shaped in the mid to late term of Labour control.

That doesn't mean labour are fully responsible, but I find it laughable when life time labour supporters try to blame the coalition for whats going on, when the cuts haven't even taken effect yet.

.
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Reply #289 posted 08/12/11 6:56am

Cloudbuster

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

This is a super tough issue for the left. First, we know that there are social reasons to explain the riots, but at the same time you don't want to look like you justify the wonton violence.

Sometimes real truth is hard to swallow. If we just see this as thugs going wild we will miss the big picture, like we missed why muslims might want to harm us.

The Cuntservative government (let's ignore the utterly useless Lib-Dem faction) doesn't give a fuck about anybody but themselves and their rich corporate friends. This is a government of the rich, who govern for the rich, at the expense of the rest of us. While they enjoy their tax-breaks and bonuses the middle and lower classes are being squeezed to pay for a debt they weren't responsible for. When Thatcher was in power we saw the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. This is now being repeated on an even greater level. Decent lasting well-paid jobs are getting scarcer while public services and benefits for the poor and disabled are being slashed, yet we can still afford two illegal occupations (I refuse to call them wars) and ooh, look, more tax-breaks and bonuses for the rich.

It's an "us" and "them" situation. As it always has been. We're now back to the dark days of Thatcher's Britain (not that we ever really escaped it) when we were urged to reject a sense of community in favour of selfishness and greed. We are now seeing the social problems created by this evil ideology on a massive scale. You could say simply that many of us have finally fucking had enough of being shafted by selfish, soulless capitalist bastards.

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Reply #290 posted 08/12/11 7:02am

Cloudbuster

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

2freaky4church1 said:

This is a super tough issue for the left. First, we know that there are social reasons to explain the riots, but at the same time you don't want to look like you justify the wonton violence.

Sometimes real truth is hard to swallow. If we just see this as thugs going wild we will miss the big picture, like we missed why muslims might want to harm us.

What we do know is that the majority of arrests are under 18. That means their moral compass was set exclusively under a social government control. Their look on life as a young adult was shaped in the mid to late term of Labour control.

That doesn't mean labour are fully responsible, but I find it laughable when life time labour supporters try to blame the coalition for whats going on, when the cuts haven't even taken effect yet.

What fucking planet are you living on?

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Reply #291 posted 08/12/11 7:10am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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mcmeekle said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

A: Less immigrant communities, more social cohesion (stronger national identity in those regions), smaller cities therefore more initimate bonds between police and community, more money spent on them per head from govt than in England.

[Edited 8/12/11 1:47am]

I believe London (which has a larger population than Scotland, Wales or NI) gets the highest per-head spend in the UK.

It would more likely be imagined differences (or unfairness) in Govt. spend rather than actual or tangible differences.

I'm talking national differences, ie. the spend per head in England is much lower than Scotland and Wales gets and for the real poor in London the difference would be even more.

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Reply #292 posted 08/12/11 7:20am

2freaky4church
1

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Not surprisingly, Ann Coulter is blaming liberal policies.

Ah, skinny bitch, the violence happened after the austerity budget and with a Tory President.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #293 posted 08/12/11 7:22am

Cloudbuster

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2freaky4church1 said:

Not surprisingly, Ann Coulter is blaming liberal policies.

falloff

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Reply #294 posted 08/12/11 7:53am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

SquirrelMeat said:

What we do know is that the majority of arrests are under 18. That means their moral compass was set exclusively under a social government control. Their look on life as a young adult was shaped in the mid to late term of Labour control.

That doesn't mean labour are fully responsible, but I find it laughable when life time labour supporters try to blame the coalition for whats going on, when the cuts haven't even taken effect yet.

What fucking planet are you living on?

What are you seeing as changed so far? I'm seeing very little. Most of the council / police etc cuts don't take effect until next year.

What about the rest of my statement? Are you going to somehow say the conservatives are to blame for the Labour years and effect as well?

Its clear you have no love for the Cons, but we've just had a generation of Labour. They have had their crack. The current youth are the fruit. Are you proud of them????

.
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Reply #295 posted 08/12/11 8:25am

2elijah

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

To those that say it couldn't happen in America:

Analysis of LA riots vs UK riots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...d-14501282

Oh, I don't believe anyone said it couldn't happen in the U.S. The U.S. has history of riots, that is nothing new. Especially when it involved police officers murdering unarmed black males, which NYC has a long history of that, and still has a problem with 'racial profiling' and it amazes me that some would rather turn a blind eye to it being a realization,rather than accepting that there 'is a problem'. Not to mention the demonstrations/riots, protesting the Vietnam War back in the 60s, where truckloads of people were arrested at various demonstrations.

The riot regarding Rodney King, I believe, was the most publicized riot, back in the 90s, and I don't remember any more riots after that, taking place since then. Seems no matter how much that vid was shown, you had some racist idiots stating "he shouldn't have moved" or that "he deserved it". Nobody deserves to be beaten like that by racist, maniac cops who were out of control. This is what pissed off a lot in that community, because situations like this was happening all the time, and no one cared to listen, and Rodney's attack by the cops, set off an already 'boiling hot' situation in a community, that complained about the harassment by cops in their community. Not enough elected offiicals were 'listening or cared' and the situation just went on too long, and that is why so many came out in anger and just didn't give a damn what they were tearing up at that time. Of course, not the way to go, but that's how many of the people in that community was feeling at the time of the riots.

[Edited 8/12/11 8:32am]

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Reply #296 posted 08/12/11 8:56am

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

2elijah said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

To those that say it couldn't happen in America:

Analysis of LA riots vs UK riots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...d-14501282

Oh, I don't believe anyone said it couldn't happen in the U.S. The U.S. has history of riots, that is nothing new. Especially when it involved police officers murdering unarmed black males, which NYC has a long history of that, and still has a problem with 'racial profiling' and it amazes me that some would rather turn a blind eye to it being a realization,rather than accepting that there 'is a problem'. Not to mention the demonstrations/riots, protesting the Vietnam War back in the 60s, where truckloads of people were arrested at various demonstrations.

The riot regarding Rodney King, I believe, was the most publicized riot, back in the 90s, and I don't remember any more riots after that, taking place since then. Seems no matter how much that vid was shown, you had some racist idiots stating "he shouldn't have moved" or that "he deserved it". Nobody deserves to be beaten like that by racist, maniac cops who were out of control. This is what pissed off a lot in that community, because situations like this was happening all the time, and no one cared to listen, and Rodney's attack by the cops, set off an already 'boiling hot' situation in a community, that complained about the harassment by cops in their community. Not enough elected offiicals were 'listening or cared' and the situation just went on too long, and that is why so many came out in anger and just didn't give a damn what they were tearing up at that time. Of course, not the way to go, but that's how many of the people in that community was feeling at the time of the riots.

[Edited 8/12/11 8:32am]

Oh its ok 2elijah this was not aimed at you i think your comments on the riots have been wise, someone earlier said it could never happen in America hence i posted it.

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Reply #297 posted 08/12/11 9:02am

catpark

SquirrelMeat said:



2freaky4church1 said:


This is a super tough issue for the left. First, we know that there are social reasons to explain the riots, but at the same time you don't want to look like you justify the wonton violence.



Sometimes real truth is hard to swallow. If we just see this as thugs going wild we will miss the big picture, like we missed why muslims might want to harm us.



What we do know is that the majority of arrests are under 18. That means their moral compass was set exclusively under a social government control. Their look on life as a young adult was shaped in the mid to late term of Labour control.



That doesn't mean labour are fully responsible, but I find it laughable when life time labour supporters try to blame the coalition for whats going on, when the cuts haven't even taken effect yet.


Cuts have been made already. EMA axed last year, college tutition fees allowance axed this year, rent allowances cut for people under 35 last year, a community halls are closing in my area, youth centre has closed this year, Oaps schemes axed this year, a large social housing estate with thousands of tenants who've been living there decades is being torn down, the land has be sold off by the govenment to foreign private company last year. And im sure theres more, theses are the ones ive only heard about, God knows what else has been cut.
FUNKNROLL! dancing jig "February 2014, wow". 'dre. nod
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Reply #298 posted 08/12/11 9:06am

V10LETBLUES

.Nevermind

[Edited 8/12/11 9:08am]

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Reply #299 posted 08/12/11 9:07am

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

catpark said:

SquirrelMeat said:

What we do know is that the majority of arrests are under 18. That means their moral compass was set exclusively under a social government control. Their look on life as a young adult was shaped in the mid to late term of Labour control.

That doesn't mean labour are fully responsible, but I find it laughable when life time labour supporters try to blame the coalition for whats going on, when the cuts haven't even taken effect yet.

Cuts have been made already. EMA axed last year, college tutition fees allowance axed this year, rent allowances cut for people under 35 last year, a community halls are closing in my area, youth centre has closed this year, Oaps schemes axed this year, a large social housing estate with thousands of tenants who've been living there decades is being torn down, the land has be sold off by the govenment to foreign private company last year. And im sure theres more, theses are the ones ive only heard about, God knows what else has been cut.

Oh and don't forget that ludicrous plan to sell off the forests which thankfully has been rejected after mass opposition!

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Forums > Politics & Religion > Riot hits north London after police shooting death