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Thread started 03/06/11 7:33am

PenelopePaige

Are the Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult?

I keep hearing conflicting things about them. I have been meeting with the JW's and like them and like what they have to say and really enjoy the Awake and Watchtower-always gives great advice and articles-seems harmless- but I keep hearing that they are a cult and that you should stay away from them and am not sure what to think. Thoughts?

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Reply #1 posted 03/06/11 7:40am

ConsciousConta
ct

Before we carry on, can we define what a cult is first?

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Reply #2 posted 03/06/11 7:56am

PenelopePaige

ConsciousContact said:

Before we carry on, can we define what a cult is first?

Mainlyl, do the exercise mind control? Not letting you think freely? From what I hear, everything is under the elders control, is that true?

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Reply #3 posted 03/06/11 9:12am

Vendetta1

No the JWs are not a cult. You can go visit their site to find out anything you want to know about them but, I know from my own personal experiences that they are not a cult. Every religion has its extremists and I have met some in my dealings but I have also met some that are the most beautiful people that you will ever want to meet.

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Reply #4 posted 03/06/11 9:55am

PenelopePaige

Vendetta1 said:

No the JWs are not a cult. You can go visit their site to find out anything you want to know about them but, I know from my own personal experiences that they are not a cult. Every religion has its extremists and I have met some in my dealings but I have also met some that are the most beautiful people that you will ever want to meet.

I definately agree with that- they are some of the nicest, most honest people I have ever dealt with. Honorable people for sure.

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Reply #5 posted 03/06/11 11:10am

NouveauDance

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Creepy thread.

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Reply #6 posted 03/06/11 12:06pm

savoirfaire

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This question comes up every year or so, and as before, I would like to know what you consider the difference to be between a religion and a cult before answering.

"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan
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Reply #7 posted 03/06/11 12:33pm

PenelopePaige

savoirfaire said:

This question comes up every year or so, and as before, I would like to know what you consider the difference to be between a religion and a cult before answering.

Ok. Like I said, I have been studying with them and I like them, very much. And from all I've seen they are good people with good intentions. BUT, I have researched them on the internet and Youtube and as soon as you put in their name, you immediatly get "Cult"- and things saying that you will be disfellowshipped if you do certain things (some of which seem legitimate and some of which seem harmless, like for instance, sercretly celebrating Christmas) and that if you ARE disfellowshipped, they will turn their backs on you if they see you out and about (which sounds AWFUL!) So, I just wanted some feedback because I would never want to get involved in something that is that intense. Maybe I've answered my own question. smile

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Reply #8 posted 03/06/11 12:37pm

weused2luvhim

I know some people who are jw. They all seem very nice down to Earth people. Don't understand the not celebrating any holidays, but hey to each his own.

[Edited 3/6/11 12:37pm]

If you're not doing the fucking, then you're taking one.
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Reply #9 posted 03/06/11 1:02pm

lazycrockett

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Pretty much.

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #10 posted 03/06/11 1:04pm

Spinlight

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If you look at this person's thread count and the threads they start, its a troll. Not a good troll, but an obvious troll.

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Reply #11 posted 03/06/11 1:34pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

PenelopePaige said:

I keep hearing conflicting things about them. I have been meeting with the JW's and like them and like what they have to say and really enjoy the Awake and Watchtower-always gives great advice and articles-seems harmless- but I keep hearing that they are a cult and that you should stay away from them and am not sure what to think. Thoughts?

Ultimately...Yes they are a cult....

but that doesn't matter.

What matters is...

what do you believe concerning Christ?

That is the division between us all.

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Reply #12 posted 03/06/11 2:41pm

PenelopePaige

Spinlight said:

If you look at this person's thread count and the threads they start, its a troll. Not a good troll, but an obvious troll.

What makes you so nasty?

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Reply #13 posted 03/06/11 11:07pm

DavidSF

PenelopePaige said:

I keep hearing conflicting things about them. I have been meeting with the JW's and like them and like what they have to say and really enjoy the Awake and Watchtower-always gives great advice and articles-seems harmless- but I keep hearing that they are a cult and that you should stay away from them and am not sure what to think. Thoughts?

In general I would not classify them as a cult in the traditonal sense, like Jim Jones' Peoples Temple. But there are some "cultish" aspects, such as discouraging personal friendships with people outside of the religion, shunning members who leave the religion (including family), and an inordinate amount of time spent attending meetings and personal study of literature published by the Watchtower Society, to name a few. It's a controversial religion. There is a reason why many ex-members of religions like Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, Moonies, Etc...are so vocal about their experieinces (as opposed to ex-members of other religions). I suggest to get the full story you dig deeper and fully research what ex-members have to say about their experience. For example go to http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/

[Edited 3/6/11 23:08pm]

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Reply #14 posted 03/06/11 11:24pm

Paris9748430

I don't really think so. What people say about Jehovah Witnesses, you can say about pretty much any religion.

JERKIN' EVERYTHING IN SIGHT!!!!!
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Reply #15 posted 03/07/11 12:22am

ConsciousConta
ct

DavidSF said:

PenelopePaige said:

I keep hearing conflicting things about them. I have been meeting with the JW's and like them and like what they have to say and really enjoy the Awake and Watchtower-always gives great advice and articles-seems harmless- but I keep hearing that they are a cult and that you should stay away from them and am not sure what to think. Thoughts?

In general I would not classify them as a cult in the traditonal sense, like Jim Jones' Peoples Temple. But there are some "cultish" aspects, such as discouraging personal friendships with people outside of the religion, shunning members who leave the religion (including family), and an inordinate amount of time spent attending meetings and personal study of literature published by the Watchtower Society, to name a few. It's a controversial religion. There is a reason why many ex-members of religions like Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology, Moonies, Etc...are so vocal about their experieinces (as opposed to ex-members of other religions). I suggest to get the full story you dig deeper and fully research what ex-members have to say about their experience. For example go to http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/

[Edited 3/6/11 23:08pm]

So they are divisive. Like all religions.

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Reply #16 posted 03/07/11 12:48am

Vanity45

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Whatever it is, it's partly insanity! Watched a TV show from the emergency treatment at an american hospital, yesterday. An older couple had been in a car accident on their way to church and because of their belive in JW they refused to take bloodtransfusion. The husband died shortly after the arrival because of huge bloodloss and inner damages. At least he would have had a chance with given blood. The woman, who also refused to take blood (even her own given back to her!), survived a week. It was kind of absurd to watch her son sit at her bed reading the bible and watching her die instead of doing everything to make her survive...

I just don't get it... confused

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Reply #17 posted 03/07/11 7:45am

NoVideo

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it's like any other religion or mythology. What makes a cult, the size of its membership? Once you reach a certain threshhold it ceases being a cult and becomes a legitimate religion?

They're all different, but ultimately all the same. Meaningless superstition invented by humans.

* * *

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Reply #18 posted 03/07/11 8:15am

2elijah

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PenelopePaige said:

savoirfaire said:

This question comes up every year or so, and as before, I would like to know what you consider the difference to be between a religion and a cult before answering.

Ok. Like I said, I have been studying with them and I like them, very much. And from all I've seen they are good people with good intentions. BUT, I have researched them on the internet and Youtube and as soon as you put in their name, you immediatly get "Cult"- and things saying that you will be disfellowshipped if you do certain things (some of which seem legitimate and some of which seem harmless, like for instance, sercretly celebrating Christmas) and that if you ARE disfellowshipped, they will turn their backs on you if they see you out and about (which sounds AWFUL!) So, I just wanted some feedback because I would never want to get involved in something that is that intense. Maybe I've answered my own question. smile

If you wanted "feedback" you could have went straight to the source and question them on it. You could have asked and challenged the JWs you studied with, about the research you found to get the answers you're looking for. When I say "source" I mean those who already practice that religion on a daily basis and live through it. You should also speak with non-JWs and those who were disfellowshipped. Don't forget that when one is trying to recruit one to become a member of a faith, then don't expect those individuals to display negative behavior towards you. JWs as individuals, are no different from any other human being, as far as being part of the human species. They exist with their own beliefs, just like everyone else.

[Edited 3/7/11 8:23am]

falloff
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Reply #19 posted 03/07/11 8:19am

Graycap23

All religions are bascally the SAME.

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Reply #20 posted 03/07/11 10:07am

Vanity45

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Graycap23 said:

All religions are bascally the SAME.

Yes. They all think they are much better people than others...

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Reply #21 posted 03/07/11 11:47am

paisleypark4

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Vanity45 said:

Whatever it is, it's partly insanity! Watched a TV show from the emergency treatment at an american hospital, yesterday. An older couple had been in a car accident on their way to church and because of their belive in JW they refused to take bloodtransfusion. The husband died shortly after the arrival because of huge bloodloss and inner damages. At least he would have had a chance with given blood. The woman, who also refused to take blood (even her own given back to her!), survived a week. It was kind of absurd to watch her son sit at her bed reading the bible and watching her die instead of doing everything to make her survive...

I just don't get it... confused

I can see..from the immediate aspect of it..their beliefs are absured..who would not want to have their lives saved?

From the outside aspect in my eyes..I see it as the natural way they were supposed to leave the Earth. Sad be it all; however their life was made before they came and the natural outcome of their death is understandable and respectable. Believe me that couple is probably alot more joyful now than ever. nod

[Edited 3/7/11 11:48am]

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Reply #22 posted 03/07/11 1:13pm

Vanity45

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paisleypark4 said:

Vanity45 said:

Whatever it is, it's partly insanity! Watched a TV show from the emergency treatment at an american hospital, yesterday. An older couple had been in a car accident on their way to church and because of their belive in JW they refused to take bloodtransfusion. The husband died shortly after the arrival because of huge bloodloss and inner damages. At least he would have had a chance with given blood. The woman, who also refused to take blood (even her own given back to her!), survived a week. It was kind of absurd to watch her son sit at her bed reading the bible and watching her die instead of doing everything to make her survive...

I just don't get it... confused

I can see..from the immediate aspect of it..their beliefs are absured..who would not want to have their lives saved?

From the outside aspect in my eyes..I see it as the natural way they were supposed to leave the Earth. Sad be it all; however their life was made before they came and the natural outcome of their death is understandable and respectable. Believe me that couple is probably alot more joyful now than ever. nod

[Edited 3/7/11 11:48am]

Than tell me what is natural about a carcrash?

And what can possibly be joyful about being dead?

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Reply #23 posted 03/07/11 1:26pm

PenelopePaige

2elijah said:

PenelopePaige said:

Ok. Like I said, I have been studying with them and I like them, very much. And from all I've seen they are good people with good intentions. BUT, I have researched them on the internet and Youtube and as soon as you put in their name, you immediatly get "Cult"- and things saying that you will be disfellowshipped if you do certain things (some of which seem legitimate and some of which seem harmless, like for instance, sercretly celebrating Christmas) and that if you ARE disfellowshipped, they will turn their backs on you if they see you out and about (which sounds AWFUL!) So, I just wanted some feedback because I would never want to get involved in something that is that intense. Maybe I've answered my own question. smile

If you wanted "feedback" you could have went straight to the source and question them on it. You could have asked and challenged the JWs you studied with, about the research you found to get the answers you're looking for. When I say "source" I mean those who already practice that religion on a daily basis and live through it. You should also speak with non-JWs and those who were disfellowshipped. Don't forget that when one is trying to recruit one to become a member of a faith, then don't expect those individuals to display negative behavior towards you. JWs as individuals, are no different from any other human being, as far as being part of the human species. They exist with their own beliefs, just like everyone else.

[Edited 3/7/11 8:23am]

I have not asked them because I did not want to offend them. I didn't want them to think I was "judging" the way they do things because I'm not judging, just trying to make an informed decision. Like I said, I like them, like their ideas, but don't want to get too far into it and start wondering what I've gotten myself into. Plus, I'm wondering why everyone calls them a cult if they aren't one!

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Reply #24 posted 03/07/11 4:33pm

IanRG

PenelopePaige said:

2elijah said:

If you wanted "feedback" you could have went straight to the source and question them on it. You could have asked and challenged the JWs you studied with, about the research you found to get the answers you're looking for. When I say "source" I mean those who already practice that religion on a daily basis and live through it. You should also speak with non-JWs and those who were disfellowshipped. Don't forget that when one is trying to recruit one to become a member of a faith, then don't expect those individuals to display negative behavior towards you. JWs as individuals, are no different from any other human being, as far as being part of the human species. They exist with their own beliefs, just like everyone else.

[Edited 3/7/11 8:23am]

I have not asked them because I did not want to offend them. I didn't want them to think I was "judging" the way they do things because I'm not judging, just trying to make an informed decision. Like I said, I like them, like their ideas, but don't want to get too far into it and start wondering what I've gotten myself into. Plus, I'm wondering why everyone calls them a cult if they aren't one!

The problem is the word itself - and it is this word that has kept me out of this thread. As you have seen in the thread so far the word means different things to different people. Most would agree that the Westboro Church and alike are cults. Most would agree that the mainstream religions/denominations are not. But some do not consider the Westboro Church to be a cult and some consider all religions to be cults.

Personnally, I don't consider them to be a cult but I do have strong reservations about their theological differences from Christian theology and the methods employed by their controlling body, the Watchtower Society. Having said that I have a lot of respect for their diligence, commitment and their dedication to their studies and church. They have a better understanding of their beliefs than most Christians do and, on the whole (aside from disfellowship and abuse scandals) they live their beliefs better than we do.

Theologically they are not Christian. They do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and their God, having no other God but Yahweh because there is no other God before or after Yahweh. Their teachings have a strong focus on the differences between Christian religions and their faith. This is not a criticism, just a completely understandable fact. They have rewritten their Bible to suit their differences. Words or phrases have been added to remove or reduce the position of Jesus as God, the Son to being just one of God's gods. The meaning of words is taken out of context such as the assumption that firstborn means "born first" even though the underlying Hebrew word is used elsewhere in the Bible to refer to people who were not "born first" (eg King David is called firstborn of the earthly kings - but there were a number of kings born before him).

The name Jehovah is itself a theological difference. Jehovah is a medieval made up name. YHWH, Yahweh or Jehovah was never in any New Testament (NT), which brings me to the Watchtower Society. This organisation controls the JWs and is responsible for the policies on no interfaith dialog and disfellowship and therefore the accusations of being a cult. It is the organisation that created the theological differences. They put Jehovah in the NT. They write the articles that claim that many scholars support the use of Jehovah but only site 3 - one is from an old edition - the current one says Yahweh. One is the strongest critic of the word Jehovah, who once said "Any translation that does not translate, hwhy or YHWH, as Yahweh, cannot be trusted for Divine Inspiration". The final one is deceptive. They selectively quote from an argument that concluded that YHWH was never said as Jehovah and add a sentence from a footnote from a completely different section of the book to claim he supports the use of Jehovah instead of Yahweh or other names. They quote from Hebrew documents to support adding Jehovah to the NT, but these documents are all medieval to 20th Century documents that are known to have been translated from the original Greek to Hebrew and so are no different from the English language translations - Indeed the main J document is a Hebrew translation of the same Greek document that was the primary source for the King James Version Bible.

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Reply #25 posted 03/07/11 6:01pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

Graycap23 said:

All religions are bascally the SAME.

What are the basics of them all?

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Reply #26 posted 03/07/11 6:02pm

NevermindAlexz
ander

NoVideo said:

it's like any other religion or mythology. What makes a cult, the size of its membership? Once you reach a certain threshhold it ceases being a cult and becomes a legitimate religion?

They're all different, but ultimately all the same. Meaningless superstition invented by humans.

"Meaningless"?

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Reply #27 posted 03/08/11 12:08am

ConsciousConta
ct

paisleypark4 said:

Vanity45 said:

Whatever it is, it's partly insanity! Watched a TV show from the emergency treatment at an american hospital, yesterday. An older couple had been in a car accident on their way to church and because of their belive in JW they refused to take bloodtransfusion. The husband died shortly after the arrival because of huge bloodloss and inner damages. At least he would have had a chance with given blood. The woman, who also refused to take blood (even her own given back to her!), survived a week. It was kind of absurd to watch her son sit at her bed reading the bible and watching her die instead of doing everything to make her survive...

I just don't get it... confused

I can see..from the immediate aspect of it..their beliefs are absured..who would not want to have their lives saved?

From the outside aspect in my eyes..I see it as the natural way they were supposed to leave the Earth. Sad be it all; however their life was made before they came and the natural outcome of their death is understandable and respectable. Believe me that couple is probably alot more joyful now than ever. nod

[Edited 3/7/11 11:48am]

1. Why would I believe you?

2. How can you possibly know they are more joyful now than ever?

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Reply #28 posted 03/08/11 6:02am

Graycap23

NevermindAlexzander said:

Graycap23 said:

All religions are bascally the SAME.

What are the basics of them all?

The Book of the Pharoahs as "truth" in human creation when a simple timeline of Earth would show the lies within.

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Reply #29 posted 03/08/11 7:04am

paisleypark4

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Vanity45 said:

paisleypark4 said:

I can see..from the immediate aspect of it..their beliefs are absured..who would not want to have their lives saved?

From the outside aspect in my eyes..I see it as the natural way they were supposed to leave the Earth. Sad be it all; however their life was made before they came and the natural outcome of their death is understandable and respectable. Believe me that couple is probably alot more joyful now than ever. nod

[Edited 3/7/11 11:48am]

Than tell me what is natural about a carcrash?

And what can possibly be joyful about being dead?

What is natural about a car crash is that just as any other way of passing..it is the way your life was supposed to have ended. Suicide however is never a natural death and is part of breaking the life you were supposed to have lived.

How do you know that being back Home is NOT joyful. From my readings and watchings on claims of the afterlife ...it is nothing to be scared of. Death is nothing more than a graduation to the next phase and the experience of living a lived life full of all emotions and feelings. Death is never the 'end of life' but a passing to another type of life we have 'forogtten' to be able to live this one.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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