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Reply #90 posted 10/10/08 6:45pm

lascantas

Adisa said:

2the9s said:



namepeace just posted a link to the story as well.

Hopefully McCain is starting to get it and will be more forceful in quelling this stuff. I hope he proves to have more dignity and foresight in this than Hillary has shown.

I saw this story on the news earlier. Speechless.



I know I got off-topic, but I saw this story, too! Sorry.

I feel a little sorry for McCain.. Maybe he has been pushed by campaign managers or whatever?

Anyway.. I told my husband, I think this and Palin's situation might be the final straw. McCain should have never gone down this road in the firstplace.

My husband said, he used to not be like this. He was really somebody..different than what he has been in this campaign. I think he just got caught-up in trying to win.

Anyway, we both agreed he did the honorable thing to try to stop what he started. But for President, he should have never started it in the first place. This is his downfall.
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Reply #91 posted 10/10/08 6:47pm

Adisa

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The Farrakhan thread was just yanked. lol
I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired!
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Reply #92 posted 10/10/08 7:32pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

728huey said:

2the9s said:


That's what you get when you substitute hate speech for argumentation.

Villifying and de-humanizing your enemy -- calling them terrorists and baby killers, (indirectly of course, of course) all the while vehemently arguing for the case of "just war" -- has this blowback effect on your own followers.

These people are as much victims of McCain's and the right wing's strategy as anything.

Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. But I can't help but notice the similarity to the extreme anger in Clinton and her supporters (and in Bill) towards the end of her campaign. An anger that she was also instrumental in creating. An anger that is so vehement because it isn't about ideology, it's about how dare he.



It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place. To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

This strategy took a shot downturn in the early 1990's when Bill Clinton was elected, as he co-opted a lot of the GOP plans for balancing the budget and got the economy going strong again. Sensing that they could not win on the frustrations of economic malaise when it began to disappear, they dialed up the hate on culture issues and assembled a team of shouting heads to spread their anger, hate, and lies about the Democrats and liberals (Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Fox News). This is why, despite the longest run of economic growth in 50 years, rapidly declining crime rates, and relative peace around the world, the republicans were able to convince enough people that Bill Clinton was not fit to stay in office because he cheated on his wife. This also was the reason they were able to steal the 2000 election from Al Gore. But when the economy went into the take just as George W. Bush took office and we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11/01, the GOP dialed up the hate and fear machine and tried to scare people into voting against their own economic interests. Even after the dot-com crash and the corrupt falls of Enron and WorldCom, these blue collar citizens were blaming illegal immigrants for stealing American jobs, even though most Wall Street executives and CEO's were making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars shipping off jobs to China and India. The colossal screwup of the Iraq War plus the inept government response to Hurricane Katrina woke up the bulk of people, but you still had that 30% who would follow President Bush even after he shit on the American people.

But now that even Wall Street is in total crisis, people are running scared all across the country, but those 30% of people who followed the extreme right wing of the GOP like lemmings can't deal with the fact that their supposed leaders have screwed them royally. Their whole belief system is disintegrating before their eyes, and to compound that, the only person who has a reasonable plan to truly help them out of their misery is someone they have been indoctrinated to believe as inferior to themselves. What is really disturbing about this sudden public outbreak of anger and hatred at these rallies is that they can't cope with reality, and they would rather lash out at others than deal with their own issues. I worry that some of these people will try to assassinate Obama and/or his supporters, or that there may actually be a number of mass muderer/suicides among these people if Obama is elected.

typing


Good stuff man. I like it. I agree with your analysis. I like the historical distillation. That's easily a 1,000 page book.
biggrin
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Reply #93 posted 10/10/08 10:33pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

War of words in presidential campaign intensifies


By Mary Anne Ostrom

Mercury News
Article Launched: 10/10/2008 05:47:45 PM PDT


Barack Obama assailed the Republican ticket on Friday for "stoking anger and division'' after a remarkably hot-tempered week that saw searing attacks from John McCain and Sarah Palin at rallies while their supporters shouted "terrorist" and "traitor" and even "off with his head" at the mention of the Democratic candidate's name.

"It's easy to rile up a crowd by stoking anger and division," Obama said Friday during a stop in Ohio. "The American people are not looking for someone who will divide this country, they are looking for someone who will lead it."

He spoke after McCain released a biting new ad, once again linking Obama to a 1960s radical, only this time with harsher language, saying Obama had "lied" about his association with Bill Ayers. A week ago, Palin used the connection to claim Obama "pals around with terrorists."

The anger seen this week at some GOP rallies has been so palpable that respected CNN correspondent, David Gergen, a former adviser to Republican and Democratic presidents, warned on the air that such "free-floating sort of whipping-around anger "... could really lead to some violence. I think we're not far from that.''

Late Friday, after broad criticism for not stepping in earlier, McCain tried to tamp down tempers but was booed by his own supporters when, in an abrupt switch from raising questions about Obama's character, he described Obama as a "decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared
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of as president of the United States."

The switch underscores the Republicans' treacherous high-wire after an inflammatory week when the McCain campaign began focusing on Obama's character and judgment.

In recent days, the campaign launched a series of searing stump speeches and ads that some experts call racially tinged. It also spills over to terrorist fears, they say. While the McCain campaign says it doesn't condone emphasizing Obama's middle name Hussein, speakers at McCain rallies have used it this week. Others point to McCain ads, which earlier called Obama "dangerously unprepared," now simply call him "dangerous'' and the constant linking of Obama to Ayers. This comes after months of false Internet rumors that Obama is a Muslim and not an American citizen.

Both campaigns are using words and images to perpetuate stereotypes with voters, say communications experts. And it may work, they say, especially during a chaotic economic time when voters are more susceptible to fear campaigning.

When McCain calls Obama "too risky for America" and Palin says he's "not a man who sees America as you see it," some think they are playing on racist fears that the nation's first African-American presidential nominee is too different.

When Obama talks about McCain's "erratic behavior" and says he's "out of touch," some think he's playing on fears that McCain is too old to be president.

McCain campaign attacks on Obama have "gone beyond the level of code words,'' said Shanto Iyengar, Stanford University professor of communications and political science who has studied racial attitudes in elections. "I call it a racist appeal to identity. Do you want to vote for someone who doesn't look like you or have a name like yours? In America, racial identity tends to trump other forms of identity. It's the most salient basis for making the distinction between us and them."

It's not about race, it's about getting voters to take another look at Obama "and fill in the blanks,'' said Bill Whalen, a former speech writer for Republicans and now a fellow at the Hoover Institution. McCain is hoping to take the voters' eyes off economic problems, where polls show he's weak, and move the attention to Obama's ties to Chicago associates, notably Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground, which the FBI labeled a "domestic terrorist group," as well as felon Antoin "Tony" Rezko and the controversial black minister the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

"Dangerous" and "too risky" are not code words for racism, Whalen argued. "The Democrats in 1980 said Ronald Reagan couldn't be trusted, he was dangerous because was too much of a cowboy and would get us in a war with the Soviet Union," Whalen said.

San Jose Republican Tony Ochinero, a McCain backer and former Democrat, said he is glad the McCain campaign is encouraging people to "check Obama out."

"I think people have the right to figure out who this guy is and whether he's lying to us'' about his past associates. McCain has tried to play-up Obama's association with Ayers; however, media reports have concluded the relationship was only a casual one.

But as the race hurdles to its Nov. 4 climax, political observers say these words and images will stoke fears, particularly racial ones.

"In a fear environment, what's effective is to draw on fears of racism,'' said Barbara O'Connor, director of the Institute for the Study of Politics and the Media at California State University-Sacramento. Such tactics might be particularly effective if McCain wants to shore up support among conservatives and older voters in places like Florida, Virginia and Midwest swing states. And Obama, she contended, is using "code words to show McCain as rickety and old,'' unable to lead a turnaround.

The irony, she added, that for an election about change, the economic crisis may cause some voters to seek the candidate they believe is safest "when everything else is turning upside down. The fear of the different is the flip-flop of change. Change has been the mantra but now people have had way too much change.''

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Contact Mary Anne Ostrom at mostrom@mercurynews.com or (415) 477-3794.
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Reply #94 posted 10/10/08 11:02pm

Krystal666

avatar

728huey said:

2the9s said:


That's what you get when you substitute hate speech for argumentation.

Villifying and de-humanizing your enemy -- calling them terrorists and baby killers, (indirectly of course, of course) all the while vehemently arguing for the case of "just war" -- has this blowback effect on your own followers.

These people are as much victims of McCain's and the right wing's strategy as anything.

Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. But I can't help but notice the similarity to the extreme anger in Clinton and her supporters (and in Bill) towards the end of her campaign. An anger that she was also instrumental in creating. An anger that is so vehement because it isn't about ideology, it's about how dare he.


It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place. To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

This strategy took a shot downturn in the early 1990's when Bill Clinton was elected, as he co-opted a lot of the GOP plans for balancing the budget and got the economy going strong again. Sensing that they could not win on the frustrations of economic malaise when it began to disappear, they dialed up the hate on culture issues and assembled a team of shouting heads to spread their anger, hate, and lies about the Democrats and liberals (Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Fox News). This is why, despite the longest run of economic growth in 50 years, rapidly declining crime rates, and relative peace around the world, the republicans were able to convince enough people that Bill Clinton was not fit to stay in office because he cheated on his wife. This also was the reason they were able to steal the 2000 election from Al Gore. But when the economy went into the take just as George W. Bush took office and we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11/01, the GOP dialed up the hate and fear machine and tried to scare people into voting against their own economic interests. Even after the dot-com crash and the corrupt falls of Enron and WorldCom, these blue collar citizens were blaming illegal immigrants for stealing American jobs, even though most Wall Street executives and CEO's were making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars shipping off jobs to China and India. The colossal screwup of the Iraq War plus the inept government response to Hurricane Katrina woke up the bulk of people, but you still had that 30% who would follow President Bush even after he shit on the American people.

But now that even Wall Street is in total crisis, people are running scared all across the country, but those 30% of people who followed the extreme right wing of the GOP like lemmings can't deal with the fact that their supposed leaders have screwed them royally. Their whole belief system is disintegrating before their eyes, and to compound that, the only person who has a reasonable plan to truly help them out of their misery is someone they have been indoctrinated to believe as inferior to themselves. What is really disturbing about this sudden public outbreak of anger and hatred at these rallies is that they can't cope with reality, and they would rather lash out at others than deal with their own issues. I worry that some of these people will try to assassinate Obama and/or his supporters, or that there may actually be a number of mass muderer/suicides among these people if Obama is elected.

typing


U totally nailed it! I just had to laugh when the news kept playing that "I'm mad! I'm real mad!" guy on TV. Who he should be mad at is the republicans for selling people out and playing on fears. These crowds have scary lynch mobby vibes and it really pisses me off when Mccain scoldes that woman for calling Obama and Arab (and Arab??? censored) and repeating misinformation when they have Palin raising the suspician factor and with xenophoblic undertones. They encourge this anger and hatefulness that is already in these people and then they act like they are just looking out for the American people.
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Reply #95 posted 10/10/08 11:35pm

FuNkeNsteiN

avatar

IrresistibleB1tch said:

this really worries me. confused


If you ever wonder why a lot of Europeans see Americans as complete fucking idiots, well here is why. We see shit like this.

This is seriously just too goddamn disturbing. How the HELL can people be so fucking stupid? It's un-fucking-believable.

disbelief disbelief disbelief disbelief
It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.

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Reply #96 posted 10/11/08 12:41am

Astasheiks

avatar

728huey said:

2the9s said:


That's what you get when you substitute hate speech for argumentation.

Villifying and de-humanizing your enemy -- calling them terrorists and baby killers, (indirectly of course, of course) all the while vehemently arguing for the case of "just war" -- has this blowback effect on your own followers.

These people are as much victims of McCain's and the right wing's strategy as anything.

Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. But I can't help but notice the similarity to the extreme anger in Clinton and her supporters (and in Bill) towards the end of her campaign. An anger that she was also instrumental in creating. An anger that is so vehement because it isn't about ideology, it's about how dare he.


It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place. To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

This strategy took a shot downturn in the early 1990's when Bill Clinton was elected, as he co-opted a lot of the GOP plans for balancing the budget and got the economy going strong again. Sensing that they could not win on the frustrations of economic malaise when it began to disappear, they dialed up the hate on culture issues and assembled a team of shouting heads to spread their anger, hate, and lies about the Democrats and liberals (Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Fox News). This is why, despite the longest run of economic growth in 50 years, rapidly declining crime rates, and relative peace around the world, the republicans were able to convince enough people that Bill Clinton was not fit to stay in office because he cheated on his wife. This also was the reason they were able to steal the 2000 election from Al Gore. But when the economy went into the take just as George W. Bush took office and we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11/01, the GOP dialed up the hate and fear machine and tried to scare people into voting against their own economic interests. Even after the dot-com crash and the corrupt falls of Enron and WorldCom, these blue collar citizens were blaming illegal immigrants for stealing American jobs, even though most Wall Street executives and CEO's were making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars shipping off jobs to China and India. The colossal screwup of the Iraq War plus the inept government response to Hurricane Katrina woke up the bulk of people, but you still had that 30% who would follow President Bush even after he shit on the American people.

But now that even Wall Street is in total crisis, people are running scared all across the country, but those 30% of people who followed the extreme right wing of the GOP like lemmings can't deal with the fact that their supposed leaders have screwed them royally. Their whole belief system is disintegrating before their eyes, and to compound that, the only person who has a reasonable plan to truly help them out of their misery is someone they have been indoctrinated to believe as inferior to themselves. What is really disturbing about this sudden public outbreak of anger and hatred at these rallies is that they can't cope with reality, and they would rather lash out at others than deal with their own issues. I worry that some of these people will try to assassinate Obama and/or his supporters, or that there may actually be a number of mass muderer/suicides among these people if Obama is elected.

typing


Alot of what you say is dead on it!!!! wink

Would like to further comment on:
"the republicans were able to convince enough people that Bill Clinton was not fit to stay in office because he cheated on his wife.

But Clinton still served the full 8 years, so why do you say repubs. convinced enough people that he was not fit to stay in office???

"I worry that some of these people will try to assassinate Obama and/or his supporters, or that there may actually be a number of mass muderer/suicides among these people if Obama is elected."

These damn fools better check theyself, they hatred could bring on their on downfall; already written in The Bible / Revelation!
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Reply #97 posted 10/11/08 12:43am

SUPRMAN

avatar

Hoosier Daddy?

Oct 9th 2008 | INDIANAPOLIS
From The Economist print edition
A state that dislikes change may contemplate it after all

AT MIDDAY in downtown Indianapolis, Kathy Vari leads 50 schoolchildren out of the City-County Building, each wearing a sticker reading “I voted”. It is the first day of early voting in Indiana, and students from the elementary school in Lawrence Township—a political battleground on the suburban fringe—are on a field trip to see the newly opened polling place. They even fill out ballots. The results? Twenty five vote for John McCain, 25 for Barack Obama. That, says Ms Vari, is about what it feels like in Indiana these days.

To many Americans, Indiana conjures up images of corner churches, high-school basketball and endless fields of maize. It is whiter, a bit less educated and slightly poorer than America at large, and perhaps most famous for the Indianapolis 500, a huge car race. “They don’t like change very much” in Indiana, explains John Hurt, a resident of Martinsville, a small town south-west of Indianapolis lobbying to get a proposed interstate highway diverted away from its shuttered main street.

In presidential elections, Indiana has also been among the safest of Republican states. Until now. The state has not voted for a Democrat for president since Lyndon Johnson’s landslide victory in 1964; in 2000 George Bush won it by 16 points, in 2004 by 21. But an average of recent polls shows John McCain with a lead of only 2.5 points. Last week the McCain campaign announced that it was moving its money out of Michigan—a perennial swing state—and putting some of it into Indiana.

That shouldn’t seem so odd, says Birch Bayh, a legendary Democratic ex-senator who ran for president in 1976. Hoosiers—the mysterious term Indianans go by—have always been willing to vote for Democrats, such as Mr Bayh or his son, Evan, who served as governor and now sits in the Senate. Jay McCann, a professor at Purdue University in West Lafayette, argues that Democratic presidential candidates simply haven’t spent the money to make the state competitive, giving priority to nearby Ohio and Wisconsin instead.

Not so Barack Obama, who has gone on the offensive in Indiana. His first stop after the debate on October 7th was at the fairgrounds in Indianapolis. Even there, he couldn’t avoid Indiana’s conservatives. “Stop the new world order!” a few shouted as Mr Obama talked about fixing the financial crisis. The crowd booed them. “People are fed up,” says Brian Willsey, who usually votes Republican. Hoosiers “want to risk something different”.

Mr Obama has some built-in advantages. Indiana is next door to Illinois—his home base—and the two states share media markets. He can count on lots of support among the steel foundries and blighted minority communities in the state’s north-west, which is close to Chicago and has sizeable union rolls. Indianapolis, a city of 790,000 with its own large black population, is also Democratic territory, as is Bloomington, home to the University of Indiana’s flagship campus. But Democrats always do pretty well in these areas. In order to carry the state, Mr Obama will have to win elsewhere, too.

Indianapolis’s suburbs, like Lawrence Township, adjoin some of the most Republican counties in the state. But this land of big houses, well-off whites and, nowadays, political yard signs resembles suburban battlegrounds all over the country. From Indianapolis north, factory towns such as Kokomo sit amid acres of cornfields. Manufacturing, especially of steel and cars, accounts for over a quarter of the state’s output, despite its bucolic reputation. But Indiana’s factories are shedding jobs, which could convince working-class whites to consider Mr Obama.

South of Indianapolis, the state feels more like Kentucky and the old South, its hilly landscape dotted with livestock, roadside churches and small rural towns such as Martinsville, where, one could reasonably estimate, tattoos outnumber people. “Men like to keep their women barefoot and pregnant here,” says Susie, a Martinsvillian who will not give her last name in case her neighbours torch her house. “You know what’s going to hurt Obama here?”, she asks. “His colour.”


Mr Obama, indeed, probably won’t swing Martinsville’s Morgan County, which voted for Mr Bush by 48 points in 2004. His Indiana campaign nevertheless opened its 40th office there on October 6th. With waves of new voter registrations, existing campaign networks and, of course, more money, Mr Obama has out-organised Mr McCain. He has also been able to “borrow” organisation from Illinois, sending volunteers over the border to canvas neighbourhoods.

The Illinois senator could do very well if he maximises turnout in Indianapolis, in the north-west and in the college towns, and if he runs strong in the rest of the state. Indeed, preliminary tallies of last-minute voter registrations and early votes are record-breaking, suggesting turnout will be high this year. In the end, though, the most important advantage Mr Obama has is the current economic climate.

No doubt many change-averse Hoosiers will still turn to the Republicans, especially if Mr McCain starts campaigning more aggressively there. When people really start paying attention, argues Marc Lotter, a local Republican spokesman, they will turn away from Mr Obama.

But with Indiana’s unemployment rate running higher than the national figure, and with Hoosiers about to get their battered quarterly retirement account statements, Mr Obama may find just enough who want some change this year.
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Reply #98 posted 10/11/08 12:48am

PDogz

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The only thing missing from McCain/Palin's latest rally's were white sheets and burning crosses! But I must say, I saw a different McCain tonight on the news. It looked more like the McCain that I thought I knew from before. He seems to have accepted the fact that he's not going to be President, and it appears he's given more thought to the consequences his soul will have to contend with as a 72 year old cancer victim.

I don't think the McCain that we had seen in this week was the McCain that he would want us to remember him as in the near future. My bet is that this campaign will take on a different tone from this point on out. I wouldn't be surprised if his next "Hail Mary" would be to bow out of the race altogether and to congratulate Obama. Now THAT would be a maverick move!

Because otherwise, despite all that he had sacrificed for his country, the torture and abuse he has endured, and the honors that had been bestowed upon him, his lasting legacy will be that of a bitter old man that promoted racism to the highest heights that we have seen since the 1960's in an attempt to claim a Presidency that he wouldn't have even lived long enough to see through an entire term.

At this point, and in the craziest of ways, I feel a little sorry for John McCain tonight. For a large part, I believe he was doing just what he was being told to do.
"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #99 posted 10/11/08 12:57am

Astasheiks

avatar

PDogz said:

The only thing missing from McCain/Palin's latest rally's were white sheets and burning crosses! But I must say, I saw a different McCain tonight on the news. It looked more like the McCain that I thought I knew from before. He seems to have accepted the fact that he's not going to be President, and it appears he's given more thought to the consequences his soul will have to contend with as a 72 year old cancer victim.

I don't think the McCain that we had seen in this week was the McCain that he would want us to remember him as in the near future. My bet is that this campaign will take on a different tone from this point on out. I wouldn't be surprised if his next "Hail Mary" would be to bow out of the race altogether and to congratulate Obama. Now THAT would be a maverick move!

Because otherwise, despite all that he had sacrificed for his country, the torture and abuse he has endured, and the honors that had been bestowed upon him, his lasting legacy will be that of a bitter old man that promoted racism to the highest heights that we have seen since the 1960's in an attempt to claim a Presidency that he wouldn't have even lived long enough to see through an entire term.

At this point, and in the craziest of ways, I feel a little sorry for John McCain tonight. For a large part, I believe he was doing just what he was being told to do.


For a large part, I believe he was doing just what he was being told to do.

By whom....Palin! lol razz
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Reply #100 posted 10/11/08 1:13am

January202009

FuNkeNsteiN said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

this really worries me. confused


If you ever wonder why a lot of Europeans see Americans as complete fucking idiots, well here is why. We see shit like this.

This is seriously just too goddamn disturbing. How the HELL can people be so fucking stupid? It's un-fucking-believable.

disbelief disbelief disbelief disbelief


Take a look at a few Obama rallies and you will see what the rest of us act like. Civilized human beings that NEVER voted for Bush!
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Reply #101 posted 10/11/08 1:14am

January202009

PDogz said:

January202009 said:

Republicans.... the party of the dividers.

Look at the last 8 years, nothing but division.

nod ...and world wide division at that!



EXACTLY! mad
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Reply #102 posted 10/11/08 1:40am

FuNkeNsteiN

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January202009 said:

FuNkeNsteiN said:


If you ever wonder why a lot of Europeans see Americans as complete fucking idiots, well here is why. We see shit like this.

This is seriously just too goddamn disturbing. How the HELL can people be so fucking stupid? It's un-fucking-believable.

disbelief disbelief disbelief disbelief


Take a look at a few Obama rallies and you will see what the rest of us act like. Civilized human beings that NEVER voted for Bush!

Yes, I know. I'm not one of those people who consider all Americans idiots lol
I do know a bunch of people who don't hold Americans in such high regard, though, and clips like this are the reason why.
It's a damn shame that the rest of you get a bad rep too because of idiots like these... confused
It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.

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Reply #103 posted 10/11/08 1:41am

FuNkeNsteiN

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FuNkeNsteiN said:

January202009 said:



Take a look at a few Obama rallies and you will see what the rest of us act like. Civilized human beings that NEVER voted for Bush!

Yes, I know. I'm not one of those people who consider all Americans idiots lol
I do know a bunch of people who don't hold Americans in such high regard, though, and clips like this are the reason why.
It's a damn shame that the rest of you get a bad rep too because of idiots like these... confused

Oh and, the fact that you had Bush Jr. as president for eight years, doesn't help things either lol
It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.

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Reply #104 posted 10/11/08 2:40am

SUPRMAN

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FOXNEWS.COM HOME > OPINION
Smear Campaigning Should Be Beneath John McCain

Friday, October 10, 2008

By Susan Estrich


William Ayers and voter fraud. Cindy McCain on the attack. Say it ain’t so, John.

The economy is in a tailspin, and so is John McCain. Our retirement plans and college savings accounts are shrinking, and McCain is shrinking right with them. He’s not just on the verge of getting clobbered in the election. He’s on the verge of becoming an object of utter ridicule. It isn’t pretty to watch. Even for a Democrat.

It’s bad enough that 100 percent of the ads McCain is running are negative. That’s a sign of a campaign in free fall, with nothing affirmative to say and nothing positive to offer; a campaign that can’t win with the support it has now, that needs to find some way to move voters out of the other guy’s camp.

What’s worse is the content of the negative ads. They aren’t about policy and issues. They aren’t about what’s wrong with Obama’s economic plans, much less what’s right about McCain’s. They aren’t about why Barack Obama would be a bad president, much less why McCain would be a good one.

They’re screaming bloody murder that Barack Obama left a phone message two years ago for a guy who engaged in radical activity when Barack Obama was 8 years old and living in Indonesia. Ayers, who is a neighbor of Obama’s, even had some kind of meet-and-greet for him 13 years ago, when Obama was running for state Senate, making him one of about a million people who’ve opened their homes and their checkbooks to the guy.


Imagine that. We’re in the midst of an international economic crisis and the McCain folks are trying to make hay out of what a guy who hosted a reception for Obama 13 years ago was doing 20 years before that.

Is William Ayers the best the McCain camp can do? The ads claim that Obama’s relationship with Ayres is somehow proof of his dangerous ambition. But it’s McCain’s blind ambition, or his campaign’s bad judgment, that is painfully on display in the newest ads.

U.S. Senator John McCain tried to use his influence to help a crook named Charlie Keating, one of the worst of the saving and loan robbers, a man who ripped off everyone in sight, including American taxpayers. That’s OK. Forgive and forget. But serving on a foundation board with a guy who engaged in radical politics decades ago? That’s a voting issue? Desperate. Dumb. You want to convince voters that you’re totally out of touch with their lives, and their fears, this is the way to do it.

I have always respected John McCain, even if I did not always agree with him. I respected him when, in the wake of his role in the Keating Five mess, he stood up to support reform of the system of campaign finance that gives crooks like Charlie Keating more influence than they should ever have. I respected him for standing up against the politicization of judicial appointments, and for standing up to the talk show hosts who have so cowed Republicans to try to do something sensible and fair on the immigration issue.

I especially respected him in 2000, when he should have been the Republicans’ nominee but for the dirty tricks of the Bush campaign. He was done in by an ugly smear campaign. Now he’s trying to run one.

It should be beneath him. There’s a reason McCain didn’t raise Ayers’ name once in the three sometimes stultifying hours of one-on-one debate between the candidates thus far. It would have made him look small and silly. It does now.

It’s also a waste of time. This isn’t that kind of election. This is the kind of election where worrying about Willie Horton would be a luxury for most people, let alone William Ayers. Does McCain not understand that? Is he really so out-of-touch? Being out of touch in the midst of a crisis that is destroying our economic security is a whole lot worse, politically speaking, than being on a foundation board with a '60s radical.

Then there’s voter fraud, which seems to be Item No. 2 on the Republican talking points, right behind William Ayers. John McCain should be so lucky that voter fraud could be a decisive issue. He’s looking at being humiliated, not being robbed.

Obviously, voter fraud is a bad thing. Election officials should do everything they can to make sure that this is a clean and fair election. But elections are a little like criminal trials. Defendants deserve a fair trial, not a perfect one. Perfection is not a realistic standard. You don’t need a perfect trial to have a fair result. Ditto for elections, especially those that are not going to be decided by razor thin margins.

If ACORN gave a guy cigarettes to register to vote more than once, by all means, punish ACORN and the guy. By all means, scrutinize suspicious entries on the voter rolls. But let’s get serious. This election is not going to be decided by people voting early and often, or by scamsters selling out for cigarettes.

It’s going to be decided by millions of Americans who are worried about gyrations in the market, not in the voter rolls. John McCain and his supporters should be focused on what they’ve got to offer to legitimate voters who are legitimately worried about their economic futures, not about votes for cigarette scams.

Finally, there’s the matter of the wives. You don’t need to read the polls, or even follow the collapse in the Dow, to know which way the political wind is blowing.

Just listen to the wives. Michelle Obama is the model of good will. Was she offended that John McCain called her husband “that one”? She barely even heard. She was paying attention to the undecided voters. She doesn’t let phrases bother her. Her husband likes and respects John McCain, and always has. Do you know what confidence sounds like? It sounds like that.

Cindy McCain is another story. Accusing Barack Obama of endangering her son by voting against one of the military funding bills doesn’t make all that much sense, given that her husband also voted against one of the funding bills, in his case because it included a timeline for withdrawal. It sounds mean-spirited, and desperate.

It’s one thing to lose an election. That happens to half the people who get as far as McCain and Obama have. It’s another to lose your integrity in the process. John McCain has worked long and hard to build a reputation as a man of honor, a man who puts country first. He’s in danger of losing all that in the process of losing this election.

It’s too bad, not for Democrats, but for a decent man. And it’s a waste, given that McCain’s best shot, his only shot, is to prove that he is up to the challenges America faces right now.

Just when he needs to be big, he has never seemed smaller.

Susan Estrich is the Robert Kingsley Professor of Law and Political Science at the University of Southern California. She was Professor of Law at Harvard Law School and the first female president of the Harvard Law Review. She is a columnist for Creators Syndicate and has written for USA Today and the Los Angeles Times.

Estrich's books include the just published "Soulless," "The Case for Hillary Clinton," "How to Get Into Law School," "Sex & Power," "Real Rape," "Getting Away with Murder: How Politics Is Destroying the Criminal Justice System" and "Making the Case for Yourself: A Diet Book for Smart Women."

She served as campaign manager for Michael Dukakis' presidential bid, becoming the first woman to head a U.S. presidential campaign. Estrich appears regularly on the FOX News Channel, in addition to writing the "Blue Streak" column for FOXNews.com.
[Edited 10/11/08 2:40am]
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Reply #105 posted 10/11/08 2:45am

SUPRMAN

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It's interesting to see how quickly the condemnation has come raining down.
I haven't seen McCain in a few days but his heart doesn't seem to be in it and he may just be tired of it all.
I think it's also occurring to him that he wouldn't be stooping this low if he had a stronger running mate who could let him rest and take some of the load.
But Palin getting crowd feedback is a thermonuclear soundbite waiting to detonate and destroy what's left of the Republican party.
I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #106 posted 10/11/08 3:11am

SUPRMAN

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McCain-Palin's hot rhetoric risks GOP backlash

Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

Saturday, October 11, 2008

(10-10) 19:34 PDT SAN FRANCISCO --

Republican Sen. John McCain had long promised American voters that he would be the ultimate maverick presidential candidate and run "a respectful campaign."


Americans "don't want us to finger-point and question each other's character and integrity," he told Ohio voters just five months ago.

But that was then - before the economy was in free fall and before his Democratic opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, had gained ground in key swing states.

And this is now - the Arizona senator's campaign is pounding the drum to raise doubts about Obama's patriotism and what it calls his questionable background, particularly his past relationship with former '60s radical Bill Ayers.

With just three weeks to go until Election Day, McCain's campaign has ramped up expressions of raw Republican anger and frustration as the candidate has battled for traction. Recent rallies starring McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, have aired openly hostile and anti-Obama rhetoric - even cries of "terrorist," "liar," "off with his head" and "kill them," which have gone unchallenged from the stage.

On Friday, McCain found himself in a tricky balancing act - booed by supporters at a Minnesota rally when he urged them to "be respectful" of the Illinois senator, even challenging one woman who said she didn't trust Obama because "he's an Arab."

"No, ma'am," McCain responded. "He's a decent family man, citizen; I just happen to have disagreements with (him) on fundamental issues."
Stoking fear and anger

The senator's attempt to contain his supporters' passion at a rally was his first in recent weeks, and comes at a time when political observers have targeted Team McCain's aggressive and increasingly personal attacks on Obama. They say the campaign has walked the line of being risky - and even irresponsible - in aiming to fire up the GOP base by stoking fear and anger.

"Those rallies are becoming potentially dangerous," said former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, who warned that it is high time for the McCain campaign to "tamp down" the anger for safety's sake.

"I think they are bordering, frankly, on creating a level of anger when McCain loses, there may be the kind of demonstrations we've seen in San Francisco" when emotions and politics mix violently, Brown said. He was referring to the "White Night" riot that followed Dan White's voluntary manslaughter conviction in 1979 for the killings of San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk.

He added that as he watches voters express rage at Obama directly in front of the GOP candidates, "you can imagine the kinds of things going on in the McCain campaign that could whip up something similar if their guy doesn't do well."

William Milliken, a former Republican governor of Michigan and a McCain supporter, also said this week that he is deeply disappointed in the tenor and personal attacks of the current campaign, and the GOP candidate is "not the McCain I endorsed."

"He keeps saying, 'Who is Barack Obama?' I would ask the question, 'Who is John McCain?' " Milliken told the Swamp Politics blog. "Because his campaign has become rather disappointing to me. ... He ought to be talking about the issues."
Call for respect

But even as the GOP presidential candidate himself called for respect for his opponent, his surrogates and supporters turned up the heat to raise questions about the patriotism of Obama and his wife, Michelle, as well as their connections to Ayers - even implying possible links to terrorism. McCain supporter Dewey Stokes, a law enforcement official, in an official McCain-Palin campaign conference call with reporters Friday, appeared to suggest such a connection when he said of Obama: "The candidate has to be straightforward ... telling us if he supports violence. Then, you know, that may answer a lot of questions for a lot of voters."

Asked by The Chronicle if he was suggesting Obama or his wife were directly or indirectly involved in terrorism, Stokes strongly denied that. But he added that "even the flow of funds concern me - as to where you can raise so much money in such a short period of time."

Obama himself has noted he was just 8 years old when Ayers was active in the Weather Underground, a '60s radical organization, but he has repeatedly and strongly denounced the group and its violent activities.

There have been other lines of attack, as well.

At least one speaker at a McCain rally used Obama's middle name - Hussein, which many take to be code to imply that he is Muslim. And an official California Republican party release Friday noted the Obama campaign's outreach to a Muslim meeting in Virginia, at which it was later learned that several controversial activists were present. It was headlined with the question: "How many times has the Obama campaign met with groups tied to or connected with terrorist organizations?"

McCain campaign co-chair Frank Keating was even more direct: In a radio interview this week with comedian Dennis Miller, he characterized Obama as "a guy of the street" who "used cocaine."
'Red herring'

Obama, asked about the tactics, said Friday on CNN, "Nothing's easier than riling up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States." He said the efforts were a "red herring" intended to distract voters from the economy.

Still, David Gergen of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government, who is also a CNN commentator, warned this week about "the ugliness" of the campaign, particularly rallies where "there is this free-floating sort of whipping around anger that could lead to some violence.

"I think we're not far from that. ... I really worry when we get people ... when you get the kind of rhetoric that you're getting at rallies now."

Gergen cited the current mudslinging tone of the campaign - such as Palin's repeated charge that Obama associates with "domestic terrorists" - as not serving McCain well.

"They ought to rein her in ... when she is whipping her crowds up and when somebody yells out 'terrorist' and 'kill him, kill him,' " he told Comedy Central's Steven Colbert. McCain "is a better man that that."

AFL-CIO President John Sweeney has also warned of fallout. "In a world where unspeakable violence is too often promulgated by extremists, it is no small or trivial matter to call someone a terrorist - or to incite potentially dangerous individuals toward violence," he said in a release. "John McCain, Sarah Palin and Republican leaders are walking a very thin line in pretending not to hear the hateful invectives spewed at their rallies."
Reaction downplayed

But Rick Davis, senior strategist for the McCain campaign, on Friday downplayed the increasingly heated reaction of voters at McCain rallies in a conference call with reporters, insisting, "I don't think there's much to it."

Asked whether there was potential danger in the ramping up of rhetoric at McCain rallies, Davis said, "Obviously, we don't know who these folks are.

"Many people are incredibly frustrated. The level of frustration and anger that is boiling over is just indicative of what's going on in our country right now," Davis said. "I'm very confident that it has nothing to do with what our candidates are doing and saying on the stump."

But "our rhetoric pales compares to what Barack Obama is saying every day," he insisted, adding that "there are some instances occurring at Obama rallies, they just don't get the kind of attention" from the media. "I don't think it's that big a deal," Davis said.

Hoover Institution research fellow Bill Whalen said that such efforts by McCain to raise questions about Obama aren't surprising in a time when the Republican has been slammed by the economy - and the unpopularity of George W. Bush.

"McCain is trying to change the narrative in his campaign in any way he can to get it off the economy - and the fear that Obama may be inevitable," he said. "Part of that is changing the conversation and to get reporters to write different stories."
Time to rethink?

But Cassandra Pye, a Republican and former deputy chief of staff to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger as well as a former political director for the California Chamber of Commerce, said the McCain campaign may need to rethink its strategy of "guilt by association" attacks.

"I'm not sure these sorts of tactics ultimately achieve any widespread impact. Independent voters, in particular, have shown repeatedly their distaste for the negative stuff," Pye said.

"While the attack clearly plays well with the Republican base ... I have to believe most voters find it a little far-fetched and maybe even desperate tactic," she said.

"Voters who are worried about their jobs and their wallets and portfolios are going to care little about a relationship that is a distant one at best."

E-mail Carla Marinucci at cmarinucci@sfchronicle.com.
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Reply #107 posted 10/11/08 4:32am

thepope2the9s

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SUPRMAN said:

It's interesting to see how quickly the condemnation has come raining down.
I haven't seen McCain in a few days but his heart doesn't seem to be in it and he may just be tired of it all.
I think it's also occurring to him that he wouldn't be stooping this low if he had a stronger running mate who could let him rest and take some of the load.
But Palin getting crowd feedback is a thermonuclear soundbite waiting to detonate and destroy what's left of the Republican party.


Perhaps he was set up to fail.?
Stand Up! Everybody, this is your life!
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Reply #108 posted 10/11/08 5:23am

IrresistibleB1
tch

SUPRMAN said:

It's interesting to see how quickly the condemnation has come raining down.
I haven't seen McCain in a few days but his heart doesn't seem to be in it and he may just be tired of it all.
I think it's also occurring to him that he wouldn't be stooping this low if he had a stronger running mate who could let him rest and take some of the load.
But Palin getting crowd feedback is a thermonuclear soundbite waiting to detonate and destroy what's left of the Republican party.


nod i don't think i've ever seen so much negativity with the right-wing punditry. usually, they fall in line with their candidate, no matter what. this is very interesting. who knows, in the long term, it may be good for their party.
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Reply #109 posted 10/11/08 5:25am

MrSoulpower

thepope2the9s said:

SUPRMAN said:

It's interesting to see how quickly the condemnation has come raining down.
I haven't seen McCain in a few days but his heart doesn't seem to be in it and he may just be tired of it all.
I think it's also occurring to him that he wouldn't be stooping this low if he had a stronger running mate who could let him rest and take some of the load.
But Palin getting crowd feedback is a thermonuclear soundbite waiting to detonate and destroy what's left of the Republican party.


Perhaps he was set up to fail.?


falloff
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Reply #110 posted 10/11/08 5:29am

IrresistibleB1
tch

thepope2the9s said:

SUPRMAN said:

It's interesting to see how quickly the condemnation has come raining down.
I haven't seen McCain in a few days but his heart doesn't seem to be in it and he may just be tired of it all.
I think it's also occurring to him that he wouldn't be stooping this low if he had a stronger running mate who could let him rest and take some of the load.
But Palin getting crowd feedback is a thermonuclear soundbite waiting to detonate and destroy what's left of the Republican party.


Perhaps he was set up to fail.?


how so?
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Reply #111 posted 10/11/08 5:39am

Cloudbuster

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lascantas said:

Cloudbuster said:

I'm not getting started on that one. lol



I just want to say that there are a lot of nice people in religion, too.

You know, I was thinking about this last week.. I know some have had very bad first-hand experiences, but.. you know.. as far as press in most everything we only hear the bad people do. It is like the bad sells, but not the good.

It is sad religion has a bad name.. But.. I just hope people know like with anything else there are good people in religion.

And just to elaborate a little you know there are bad straight people, bad homosexual people.. bad mothers, bad fathers, bad politicians, bad teachers, bad priests, bad nuns.. bad celebrities.. bad bosses, bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad bankers, bad vets.. but this does not mean we give up on everybody because the majority are good.. We are all just people doing the best we can you. It is ok with me.. ( well it is disappointing of course and I wish it were different) but I do not hold anything against anybody for not being Catholic, Christian, or religious. This is your choice..

I just wish people would not make blanket statements about everybody who chooses to follow religion because we are not all bad --or stupid people. A lot of very intelligent and creative people are(were) religious. A lot of very intelligent and create people are (were) not. It is just a choice.. a belief one way or another or in the middle.

And I am sorry to go-on like this, but many religious people do not disrespect those who are not. Now maybe on this site.. they do.. But not in real life. Of course, there are always the exceptions. But most people just mind their own business and allow people to.. do whatever.

I know gays have been persecuted. Do I agree with this? Absolutely not. But it is not only the religious who persecute gays or anybody else really. I guess anybody who is different.. or is not part of the larger group soo. In fact, most religious people do not persecute anybody. Unfortunately there are those who do.. But there are those in any group or without a group doing their share of persecuting.

Anyway. I am sorry, but I just have to speak my mind.


I know all that. wink I have no issue with decent religious people. I simply do not like religion.
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Reply #112 posted 10/11/08 5:43am

lascantas

IrresistibleB1tch said:

thepope2the9s said:



Perhaps he was set up to fail.?


how so?


I will answer it from my opinion but of course this is not the same, I am sure.

I think McCain did NOT want to run a type of "rovian" campaign. You.. know I do not like that guy "Rove" on Fox. And now, apparently FoxNews is still going after the Ayers story when McCain himself has backtracked in a way. Stupid FoxNews.

I think McCain was in a no-win situation--literally because the Republican party--led by people on FoxNews has turned in to a "right-wing"radio show.. where these types of people are given credibility It used to be these radio shows were considered crazy extreme, but now..I guess people buy into it as credibility. It is as if the crazies are now running the whole show, and this is not good.

FoxNews needs to sit down and be quiet--reevaluate the direction they have gone. They are a joke.. and it is more and more apparent with this campaign. I really think FoXNews has cost McCain the election because he has been trying to pander to those types. He should have just been himself.. But I bet if he were himself, then the crazies would not have nominated him in the first place.

I know all that. I have no issue with decent religious people. I simply do not like religion.


Ok. I do not want to continue. I guess I could understand if you say you do not believe in religion, but I do not understand about not "liking." In other words, it is not as if I do not "like" atheistic beliefs. I just do not agree. This is all.

But is ok.. If you don't like.. you don't like.

P.S. The problem is though that if you "don't like" religion, then you do not like who I am. It's just like if somebody do not like homosexuality, you know? Is like somebody says, "Sorry, but I just do not like homosexuality." But do not take this personally. How can a gay person NOT take it personally.

At the same time, how can a religious person NOT take it personally when somebody says, "I just do not like religion"? I really do not know what to say.. when you say you do not "like" what I believe in. I cannot really respond to this.. But I can only express my feelings... and yes it bothers me. I am sorry. but it does...
[Edited 10/11/08 17:00pm]
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Reply #113 posted 10/11/08 6:09am

January202009

FuNkeNsteiN said:

FuNkeNsteiN said:


Yes, I know. I'm not one of those people who consider all Americans idiots lol
I do know a bunch of people who don't hold Americans in such high regard, though, and clips like this are the reason why.
It's a damn shame that the rest of you get a bad rep too because of idiots like these... confused

Oh and, the fact that you had Bush Jr. as president for eight years, doesn't help things either lol


I must say that even though I have never voted for a Bush, even when I lived where their was one as a Governor, I think that Bush Sr at least had a brain. I think that he could make decisions and choices for himself. He could speak to world leaders without doing stupid shit like massaging their shoulders and choking on a pretzel.
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Reply #114 posted 10/11/08 6:13am

NoChances

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hit them where it hits? is that my assumption for the quality of the article?
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Reply #115 posted 10/11/08 8:25am

Shawnt25

The energy at some of these McCain/Palin rallies remind me of the energy of a Klu Klux Klan meeting. I feel like someone wants to shout out "Kill that n*gger"! If Obama does win, then I expect some violence to happen after he is declared the winner.
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Reply #116 posted 10/11/08 11:00am

PDogz

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Astasheiks said:

PDogz said:

For a large part, I believe he was doing just what he was being told to do.

By whom....Palin! lol razz

Actually, yeah... nod ...among many others. Makes you wonder who's really pulling the strings. In any event, looks like Ms. Palin's gonna have some time to cool her FMP's. That's gonna be a lonely ride back to Alaska! First Dude Todd better get his bib on, cause mama's gonna need some lovin!
"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #117 posted 10/11/08 9:45pm

DevotedPuppy

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The lows that McCain and especially Palin will stoop to with their hate mongering disgust me. Their slanderous comments about Obama are beyond inappropriate; if McCain were really about "country first" he would stop Palin from spouting her vicious lies and hate. Pathetic.

Here is a great op-ed piece from the NY Times

October 12, 2008

The Terrorist Barack Hussein Obama
By FRANK RICH, Op-Ed Columnist

IF you think way back to the start of this marathon campaign, back when it seemed preposterous that any black man could be a serious presidential contender, then you remember the biggest fear about Barack Obama: a crazy person might take a shot at him.

Some voters told reporters that they didn’t want Obama to run, let alone win, should his very presence unleash the demons who have stalked America from Lincoln to King. After consultation with Congress, Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, gave Obama a Secret Service detail earlier than any presidential candidate in our history — in May 2007, some eight months before the first Democratic primaries.

“I’ve got the best protection in the world, so stop worrying,” Obama reassured his supporters. Eventually the country got conditioned to his appearing in large arenas without incident (though I confess that the first loud burst of fireworks at the end of his convention stadium speech gave me a start). In America, nothing does succeed like success. The fear receded.

Until now. At McCain-Palin rallies, the raucous and insistent cries of “Treason!” and “Terrorist!” and “Kill him!” and “Off with his head!” as well as the uninhibited slinging of racial epithets, are actually something new in a campaign that has seen almost every conceivable twist. They are alarms. Doing nothing is not an option.

All’s fair in politics. John McCain and Sarah Palin have every right to bring up William Ayers, even if his connection to Obama is minor, even if Ayers’s Weather Underground history dates back to Obama’s childhood, even if establishment Republicans and Democrats alike have collaborated with the present-day Ayers in educational reform. But it’s not just the old Joe McCarthyesque guilt-by-association game, however spurious, that’s going on here. Don’t for an instant believe the many mindlessly “even-handed” journalists who keep saying that the McCain campaign’s use of Ayers is the moral or political equivalent of the Obama campaign’s hammering on Charles Keating.

What makes them different, and what has pumped up the Weimar-like rage at McCain-Palin rallies, is the violent escalation in rhetoric, especially (though not exclusively) by Palin. Obama “launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist.” He is “palling around with terrorists” (note the plural noun). Obama is “not a man who sees America the way you and I see America.” Wielding a wildly out-of-context Obama quote, Palin slurs him as an enemy of American troops.

By the time McCain asks the crowd “Who is the real Barack Obama?” it’s no surprise that someone cries out “Terrorist!” The rhetorical conflation of Obama with terrorism is complete. It is stoked further by the repeated invocation of Obama’s middle name by surrogates introducing McCain and Palin at these rallies. This sleight of hand at once synchronizes with the poisonous Obama-is-a-Muslim e-mail blasts and shifts the brand of terrorism from Ayers’s Vietnam-era variety to the radical Islamic threats of today.

That’s a far cry from simply accusing Obama of being a guilty-by-association radical leftist. Obama is being branded as a potential killer and an accessory to past attempts at murder. “Barack Obama’s friend tried to kill my family” was how a McCain press release last week packaged the remembrance of a Weather Underground incident from 1970 — when Obama was 8.

We all know what punishment fits the crime of murder, or even potential murder, if the security of post-9/11 America is at stake. We all know how self-appointed “patriotic” martyrs always justify taking the law into their own hands.

Obama can hardly be held accountable for Ayers’s behavior 40 years ago, but at least McCain and Palin can try to take some responsibility for the behavior of their own supporters in 2008. What’s troubling here is not only the candidates’ loose inflammatory talk but also their refusal to step in promptly and strongly when someone responds to it with bloodthirsty threats in a crowded arena. Joe Biden had it exactly right when he expressed concern last week that “a leading American politician who might be vice president of the United States would not just stop midsentence and turn and condemn that.” To stay silent is to pour gas on the fires.

It wasn’t always thus with McCain. In February he loudly disassociated himself from a speaker who brayed “Barack Hussein Obama” when introducing him at a rally in Ohio. Now McCain either backpedals with tardy, pro forma expressions of respect for his opponent or lets second-tier campaign underlings release boilerplate disavowals after ugly incidents like the chilling Jim Crow-era flashback last week when a Florida sheriff ranted about “Barack Hussein Obama” at a Palin rally while in full uniform.

From the start, there have always been two separate but equal questions about race in this election. Is there still enough racism in America to prevent a black man from being elected president no matter what? And, will Republicans play the race card? The jury is out on the first question until Nov. 4. But we now have the unambiguous answer to the second: Yes.

McCain, who is no racist, turned to this desperate strategy only as Obama started to pull ahead. The tone was set at the Republican convention, with Rudy Giuliani’s mocking dismissal of Obama as an “only in America” affirmative-action baby. We also learned then that the McCain campaign had recruited as a Palin handler none other than Tucker Eskew, the South Carolina consultant who had worked for George W. Bush in the notorious 2000 G.O.P. primary battle where the McCains and their adopted Bangladeshi daughter were slimed by vicious racist rumors.

No less disconcerting was a still-unexplained passage of Palin’s convention speech: Her use of an unattributed quote praising small-town America (as opposed to, say, Chicago and its community organizers) from Westbrook Pegler, the mid-century Hearst columnist famous for his anti-Semitism, racism and violent rhetorical excess. After an assassin tried to kill F.D.R. at a Florida rally and murdered Chicago’s mayor instead in 1933, Pegler wrote that it was “regrettable that Giuseppe Zangara shot the wrong man.” In the ’60s, Pegler had a wish for Bobby Kennedy: “Some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow falls.”

This is the writer who found his way into a speech by a potential vice president at a national political convention. It’s astonishing there’s been no demand for a public accounting from the McCain campaign. Imagine if Obama had quoted a Black Panther or Louis Farrakhan — or William Ayers — in Denver.

The operatives who would have Palin quote Pegler have been at it ever since. A key indicator came two weeks after the convention, when the McCain campaign ran its first ad tying Obama to the mortgage giant Fannie Mae. Rather than make its case by using a legitimate link between Fannie and Obama (or other Democratic leaders), the McCain forces chose a former Fannie executive who had no real tie to Obama or his campaign but did have a black face that could dominate the ad’s visuals.

There are no black faces high in the McCain hierarchy to object to these tactics. There hasn’t been a single black Republican governor, senator or House member in six years. This is a campaign where Palin can repeatedly declare that Alaska is “a microcosm of America” without anyone even wondering how that might be so for a state whose tiny black and Hispanic populations are each roughly one-third the national average. There are indeed so few people of color at McCain events that a black senior writer from The Tallahassee Democrat was mistakenly ejected by the Secret Service from a campaign rally in Panama City in August, even though he was standing with other reporters and showed his credentials. His only apparent infraction was to look glaringly out of place.

Could the old racial politics still be determinative? I’ve long been skeptical of the incessant press prognostications (and liberal panic) that this election will be decided by racist white men in the Rust Belt. Now even the dimmest bloviators have figured out that Americans are riveted by the color green, not black — as in money, not energy. Voters are looking for a leader who might help rescue them, not a reckless gambler whose lurching responses to the economic meltdown (a campaign “suspension,” a mortgage-buyout stunt that changes daily) are as unhinged as his wanderings around the debate stage.

To see how fast the tide is moving, just look at North Carolina. On July 4 this year — the day that the godfather of modern G.O.P. racial politics, Jesse Helms, died — The Charlotte Observer reported that strategists of both parties agreed Obama’s chances to win the state fell “between slim and none.” Today, as Charlotte reels from the implosion of Wachovia, the McCain-Obama race is a dead heat in North Carolina and Helms’s Republican successor in the Senate, Elizabeth Dole, is looking like a goner.

But we’re not at Election Day yet, and if voters are to have their final say, both America and Obama have to get there safely. The McCain campaign has crossed the line between tough negative campaigning and inciting vigilantism, and each day the mob howls louder. The onus is on the man who says he puts his country first to call off the dogs, pit bulls and otherwise.
"Your presence and dry wit are appealing in a mysterious way."
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Reply #118 posted 10/11/08 9:46pm

DevotedPuppy

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IrresistibleB1tch said:

this really worries me. confused



Watching that made me feel sick, extremely sad, and worried. I had to turn it off half way through, I couldn't watch anymore of the hate. cry
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Reply #119 posted 10/13/08 10:05pm

DesireeNevermi
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RodeoSchro said:

razor said:

The difference between the two sets of supporters (in general) is stark. One is a picture of positivity and hope, the other fear and anger. It says a lot I think...


Need I remind you that the fear and anger crowd won the last two presidential elections?

If you don't get right in their faces and call their candidates exactly what they are - lying, adultering shitty people - they will continue to spread fear, anger and lies unabated.

You have to rock them back on their heels or they will continue to spread these lies and ultimately, those lies WILL change minds the wrong way.

History shows that will happen.

So you fight right back:

1. John McCain is an adulterer
2. John McCain abandoned his wife and his child and fucked around on them
3. John McCain is so untrustworthy that his new wife and new father-in-law made him sign a pre-nup
4. NO MAN OF CHARACTER WOULD EVER SIGN A PRE-NUP. EVER
5. John McCain's wife is a drug addict and stole drugs from her own charity. How much lower can you get than that?
6. Sarah Palin threw her own daughter under the bus
7. Sarah Palin completely disregarded the health of her unborn son by traveling by air AFTER her water broke. AND SHE DIDN'T EVEN THINK ENOUGH OF TRIG TO TELL THE AIRLINES OF HER CONDITION
8. John McCain had an alliance with an organization that supported Nazi collaborators and death squads. For all practical purposes, this makes John McCain a Nazi collaborator
9. Did you hear me? John McCain is a Nazi collaborator
10. Sarah Palin believes she is above the Rule of Law. She has disregarded legal subpoenas, just because she wanted to
11. Todd Palin is pussy-whipped.
12. For that matter, so is John McCain
13. Todd Palin hates America so much that he was a member of a party built around the idea of Alaska seceding from America
14. Todd Palin did not join the Republican party until three weeks ago

These people are despicable people. They are bad Americans. Hell, at least one of them doesn't even WANT to be an American. No true patriot would even consider voting for people that are Nazi sympathizers, secessionist, and don't respect the same Rule of Law that you and I do.

Put America first. Vote Obama!



Dayum is all that shit true? I mean I knew about him cheating on his first wife with Cindy or was it some other chick but 3 onward are news to me. I guess I just didn't care enuf about McCain McSame to look into his past other than that Keating 5 drama. His followers seem to be mostly uneducated trailer park types with a few greedy ivy league frat boys thrown in for financial support. These same people got us into the never ending Iraq (viet nam all over again) war and got China owning half our shit. If the republicans get in, it will be the end of days sooner than we think. sad mad
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