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Reply #60 posted 10/10/08 1:23pm

thepope2the9s

avatar

January202009 said:

Republicans.... the party of the dividers.

Look at the last 8 years, nothing but division.

We have one candidate that wants to unify the country. One that does not use hate and scare tactics to get votes.Which candidate would that be??

That One!

You betcha!


you really believe this. ? they are both dividing and both using scare tactics.
Stand Up! Everybody, this is your life!
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Reply #61 posted 10/10/08 1:26pm

thepope2the9s

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2elijah said:

When you see the crowd behind/around McCain, it does not reflect the "real" America.

When you see the crowd behind/around Obama, you see "America."


what? ur kidding right? lol
I cant take this anymore..... lol
Stand Up! Everybody, this is your life!
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Reply #62 posted 10/10/08 1:35pm

January202009

thepope2the9s said:

January202009 said:

Republicans.... the party of the dividers.

Look at the last 8 years, nothing but division.

We have one candidate that wants to unify the country. One that does not use hate and scare tactics to get votes.Which candidate would that be??

That One!

You betcha!


you really believe this. ? they are both dividing and both using scare tactics.


yes.
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Reply #63 posted 10/10/08 1:54pm

Adisa

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IrresistibleB1tch said:

this really worries me. confused


neutral
I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired!
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Reply #64 posted 10/10/08 2:05pm

demore

HiinEnkelte said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

i don't understand what this man is angry about, specifically. if he is worried about the bailout (i guess that's what he means by "socialist"), shouldn't he be worried about McCain's vote for the bailout? confuse actually, i kinda thought that's where he was going, but i guess not.
...


you're right. i think he's pissed in large part about the bailout, and yes, he seems pissed at mccain, telling them they need to freakin' step up and represent them.

mccain dropped the ball here, and thinks somehow,
that his mealy-mouthed bi-partisan schtick is responsive.

the challenges facing america includes one big one that he just dropped the ball on, if not just for voting for it, but in not adequately addressing the problems it entails, and the proper, principled approach to solutions.


Exactly. This man's anger was directed at McCain. Telling him to shape up and do what is right or he is no better than the messiah.
"What the Founding Fathers created in the Constitution is the most magnificent government on the face of the Earth, and the reason is this: because it was intended to preserve the American society and the American spirit, not to transform it or destroy it
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Reply #65 posted 10/10/08 2:14pm

728huey

avatar

2the9s said:


That's what you get when you substitute hate speech for argumentation.

Villifying and de-humanizing your enemy -- calling them terrorists and baby killers, (indirectly of course, of course) all the while vehemently arguing for the case of "just war" -- has this blowback effect on your own followers.

These people are as much victims of McCain's and the right wing's strategy as anything.

Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. But I can't help but notice the similarity to the extreme anger in Clinton and her supporters (and in Bill) towards the end of her campaign. An anger that she was also instrumental in creating. An anger that is so vehement because it isn't about ideology, it's about how dare he.


It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place. To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

This strategy took a shot downturn in the early 1990's when Bill Clinton was elected, as he co-opted a lot of the GOP plans for balancing the budget and got the economy going strong again. Sensing that they could not win on the frustrations of economic malaise when it began to disappear, they dialed up the hate on culture issues and assembled a team of shouting heads to spread their anger, hate, and lies about the Democrats and liberals (Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Fox News). This is why, despite the longest run of economic growth in 50 years, rapidly declining crime rates, and relative peace around the world, the republicans were able to convince enough people that Bill Clinton was not fit to stay in office because he cheated on his wife. This also was the reason they were able to steal the 2000 election from Al Gore. But when the economy went into the take just as George W. Bush took office and we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11/01, the GOP dialed up the hate and fear machine and tried to scare people into voting against their own economic interests. Even after the dot-com crash and the corrupt falls of Enron and WorldCom, these blue collar citizens were blaming illegal immigrants for stealing American jobs, even though most Wall Street executives and CEO's were making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars shipping off jobs to China and India. The colossal screwup of the Iraq War plus the inept government response to Hurricane Katrina woke up the bulk of people, but you still had that 30% who would follow President Bush even after he shit on the American people.

But now that even Wall Street is in total crisis, people are running scared all across the country, but those 30% of people who followed the extreme right wing of the GOP like lemmings can't deal with the fact that their supposed leaders have screwed them royally. Their whole belief system is disintegrating before their eyes, and to compound that, the only person who has a reasonable plan to truly help them out of their misery is someone they have been indoctrinated to believe as inferior to themselves. What is really disturbing about this sudden public outbreak of anger and hatred at these rallies is that they can't cope with reality, and they would rather lash out at others than deal with their own issues. I worry that some of these people will try to assassinate Obama and/or his supporters, or that there may actually be a number of mass muderer/suicides among these people if Obama is elected.

typing
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Reply #66 posted 10/10/08 2:17pm

Stymie

Adisa said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

this really worries me. confused


neutral
what ignorant, hateful people.
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Reply #67 posted 10/10/08 2:18pm

Stymie

demore said:

HiinEnkelte said:



you're right. i think he's pissed in large part about the bailout, and yes, he seems pissed at mccain, telling them they need to freakin' step up and represent them.

mccain dropped the ball here, and thinks somehow,
that his mealy-mouthed bi-partisan schtick is responsive.

the challenges facing america includes one big one that he just dropped the ball on, if not just for voting for it, but in not adequately addressing the problems it entails, and the proper, principled approach to solutions.


Exactly. This man's anger was directed at McCain. Telling him to shape up and do what is right or he is no better than the messiah.
You sound as ignorant as the people on that footage.
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Reply #68 posted 10/10/08 3:15pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

avatar

demore said:

HiinEnkelte said:



you're right. i think he's pissed in large part about the bailout, and yes, he seems pissed at mccain, telling them they need to freakin' step up and represent them.

mccain dropped the ball here, and thinks somehow,
that his mealy-mouthed bi-partisan schtick is responsive.

the challenges facing america includes one big one that he just dropped the ball on, if not just for voting for it, but in not adequately addressing the problems it entails, and the proper, principled approach to solutions.


Exactly. This man's anger was directed at McCain. Telling him to shape up and do what is right or he is no better than the messiah.

What's "right" in this case?
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #69 posted 10/10/08 3:16pm

kibbles

728huey said:

2the9s said:


That's what you get when you substitute hate speech for argumentation.

Villifying and de-humanizing your enemy -- calling them terrorists and baby killers, (indirectly of course, of course) all the while vehemently arguing for the case of "just war" -- has this blowback effect on your own followers.

These people are as much victims of McCain's and the right wing's strategy as anything.

Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. But I can't help but notice the similarity to the extreme anger in Clinton and her supporters (and in Bill) towards the end of her campaign. An anger that she was also instrumental in creating. An anger that is so vehement because it isn't about ideology, it's about how dare he.


It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place.

To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

typing


and you still see this scapegoating at work recently. hannity, limbaugh, elizabeth hasselbeck from the view are beating this mantra that "unqualified" blacks and illegal aliens are responsible for the subprime mortgage fiasco. never mind the fact that

1) the law they cite as responsible, community reinvestment act (cra), is regulated and was not involved in the home loan business. the subprime lenders were in most cases recent companies set up specifically to lure *all* americans into buying houses they may not have been able to afford;


2) fannie and freddie, while they have recently been affected by the fiasco, were never directly involved in extending the loans to people, only insuring loans. the responsibility of extending credit to people rested solely with the first people in contact with propective buyers - namely, the banks, s&ls, et al - who in cases where these fradulent loans were made, were engaged in predatory lending practices. but they didn't care. these banks knew they would never be holding the bag at the end of the day because once the mortgages were made, they were sold off to these investment banks and freddie and fannie. how is that the fault of black and brown people? if anything, they were victims just like the many white people who bought into these teaser interest rates, thinking they could refinance when the value of their houses went up. but then the prices began to crash.

3) it wasn't only "unqualified" black and brown people buying houses under the looser standards. my very white friends got a house six years ago with stated income and less than 20% down. sounds like they were "unqualified", doesn't it? but they're still in that house, just like my black friend who bought her house with verified income and no money down around the same time. the right wing decries looser standards without realizing that looser standards is what allowed the white middle class to grow via the g.i. bill which opened up home ownership to those who had been shut out of the system. so social programs are okay if they're geared toward whites, but if they're for blacks and others, they're not?

4) how do these people even know that the holders of subprime mortgages are the main people in default? the banks won't let the fed and treasury see what's in the mortgage bundles so how can hannity, et al make blacks and browns the scapegoats? moreover, most people are current on their loans, and i'm assuming that would include the majority of people who had subprime loans. oh, i forgot, facts don't matter when you're scapegoating people.
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Reply #70 posted 10/10/08 3:21pm

Cloudbuster

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Stymie said:

demore said:

Exactly. This man's anger was directed at McCain. Telling him to shape up and do what is right or he is no better than the messiah.
You sound as ignorant as the people on that footage.


At least she's consistant. lol
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Reply #71 posted 10/10/08 3:23pm

Stymie

Cloudbuster said:

Stymie said:

You sound as ignorant as the people on that footage.


At least she's consistant. lol
And they wonder why people turn from religion.
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Reply #72 posted 10/10/08 3:27pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

avatar

kibbles said:

728huey said:

2the9s said:

It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place.

To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

typing


and you still see this scapegoating at work recently. hannity, limbaugh, elizabeth hasselbeck from the view are beating this mantra that "unqualified" blacks and illegal aliens are responsible for the subprime mortgage fiasco. never mind the fact that

1) the law they cite as responsible, community reinvestment act (cra), is regulated and was not involved in the home loan business. the subprime lenders were in most cases recent companies set up specifically to lure *all* americans into buying houses they may not have been able to afford;


2) fannie and freddie, while they have recently been affected by the fiasco, were never directly involved in extending the loans to people, only insuring loans. the responsibility of extending credit to people rested solely with the first people in contact with propective buyers - namely, the banks, s&ls, et al - who in cases where these fradulent loans were made, were engaged in predatory lending practices. but they didn't care. these banks knew they would never be holding the bag at the end of the day because once the mortgages were made, they were sold off to these investment banks and freddie and fannie. how is that the fault of black and brown people? if anything, they were victims just like the many white people who bought into these teaser interest rates, thinking they could refinance when the value of their houses went up. but then the prices began to crash.

3) it wasn't only "unqualified" black and brown people buying houses under the looser standards. my very white friends got a house six years ago with stated income and less than 20% down. sounds like they were "unqualified", doesn't it? but they're still in that house, just like my black friend who bought her house with verified income and no money down around the same time. the right wing decries looser standards without realizing that looser standards is what allowed the white middle class to grow via the g.i. bill which opened up home ownership to those who had been shut out of the system. so social programs are okay if they're geared toward whites, but if they're for blacks and others, they're not?

4) how do these people even know that the holders of subprime mortgages are the main people in default? the banks won't let the fed and treasury see what's in the mortgage bundles so how can hannity, et al make blacks and browns the scapegoats? moreover, most people are current on their loans, and i'm assuming that would include the majority of people who had subprime loans. oh, i forgot, facts don't matter when you're scapegoating people.

excellent breakdowns huey and kibbles clapping
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #73 posted 10/10/08 3:27pm

Cloudbuster

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Stymie said:

Cloudbuster said:

At least she's consistant. lol

And they wonder why people turn from religion.


I'm not getting started on that one. lol
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Reply #74 posted 10/10/08 4:27pm

lascantas

Cloudbuster said:

Stymie said:


And they wonder why people turn from religion.


I'm not getting started on that one. lol



I just want to say that there are a lot of nice people in religion, too.

You know, I was thinking about this last week.. I know some have had very bad first-hand experiences, but.. you know.. as far as press in most everything we only hear the bad people do. It is like the bad sells, but not the good.

It is sad religion has a bad name.. But.. I just hope people know like with anything else there are good people in religion.

And just to elaborate a little you know there are bad straight people, bad homosexual people.. bad mothers, bad fathers, bad politicians, bad teachers, bad priests, bad nuns.. bad celebrities.. bad bosses, bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad bankers, bad vets.. but this does not mean we give up on everybody because the majority are good.. We are all just people doing the best we can you. It is ok with me.. ( well it is disappointing of course and I wish it were different) but I do not hold anything against anybody for not being Catholic, Christian, or religious. This is your choice..

I just wish people would not make blanket statements about everybody who chooses to follow religion because we are not all bad --or stupid people. A lot of very intelligent and creative people are(were) religious. A lot of very intelligent and create people are (were) not. It is just a choice.. a belief one way or another or in the middle.

And I am sorry to go-on like this, but many religious people do not disrespect those who are not. Now maybe on this site.. they do.. But not in real life. Of course, there are always the exceptions. But most people just mind their own business and allow people to.. do whatever.

I know gays have been persecuted. Do I agree with this? Absolutely not. But it is not only the religious who persecute gays or anybody else really. I guess anybody who is different.. or is not part of the larger group soo. In fact, most religious people do not persecute anybody. Unfortunately there are those who do.. But there are those in any group or without a group doing their share of persecuting.

Anyway. I am sorry, but I just have to speak my mind.
[Edited 10/10/08 16:53pm]
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Reply #75 posted 10/10/08 4:39pm

PDogz

avatar

728huey said:

It's not just about racism; it's the culmination of a systematic strategy by the Republican party over the last 40 years to divide and distract the nation by playing on its deepest fears and prejudices, while at the same time using those very same people to further their own gains and fatten their coffers at their expense. The whole strategy started in the late 1960's when Richard Nixon pitted disgruntled, mostly Southern whites against those "hippies" who opposed the Vietnam War and the rest of the people who supported civil rights for African Americans and eventually women's rights. These bigots, sexists, and xenophobes stayed mostly in the shadows in the 1970's but began to make their presence felt after Ronald Reagan was elected. It was around this time the the culture wars went full-steam, accusing African American women of being crack-addicted welfare moms (even though most people on welfare are poor, rural whites), accusing "unqualified" African Americans of stealing jobs, school placement, and college admission from "more deserving whites" due to affirmative action, accusing women fighting for equal rights of being "feminazis", and stating that AIDS was God's punishment for gay people. Of course, many of these people were those Reagan Democrats who felt that their jobs were being taken by those uppity minorities when in fact most of those jobs were being shipped off to Taiwan, Mexico, and eventually China and India by the very same bigwigs of the GOP who were stirring up this discontent in the first place. To distract those blue-collar people from seeing that their jobs, factories, and even whole towns being decimated by the right wing economic policies, they made women, minorities, liberals, and Hollywood into bogeymen to be hated and feared and blamed them for the condition of middle America. It became very obvious how this strategy worked in 1988 when George H.W. Bush released his "Willie Horton" ad against Michael Dukakis.

This strategy took a shot downturn in the early 1990's when Bill Clinton was elected, as he co-opted a lot of the GOP plans for balancing the budget and got the economy going strong again. Sensing that they could not win on the frustrations of economic malaise when it began to disappear, they dialed up the hate on culture issues and assembled a team of shouting heads to spread their anger, hate, and lies about the Democrats and liberals (Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck, Fox News). This is why, despite the longest run of economic growth in 50 years, rapidly declining crime rates, and relative peace around the world, the republicans were able to convince enough people that Bill Clinton was not fit to stay in office because he cheated on his wife. This also was the reason they were able to steal the 2000 election from Al Gore. But when the economy went into the take just as George W. Bush took office and we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11/01, the GOP dialed up the hate and fear machine and tried to scare people into voting against their own economic interests. Even after the dot-com crash and the corrupt falls of Enron and WorldCom, these blue collar citizens were blaming illegal immigrants for stealing American jobs, even though most Wall Street executives and CEO's were making tens and hundreds of millions of dollars shipping off jobs to China and India. The colossal screwup of the Iraq War plus the inept government response to Hurricane Katrina woke up the bulk of people, but you still had that 30% who would follow President Bush even after he shit on the American people.

But now that even Wall Street is in total crisis, people are running scared all across the country, but those 30% of people who followed the extreme right wing of the GOP like lemmings can't deal with the fact that their supposed leaders have screwed them royally. Their whole belief system is disintegrating before their eyes, and to compound that, the only person who has a reasonable plan to truly help them out of their misery is someone they have been indoctrinated to believe as inferior to themselves. What is really disturbing about this sudden public outbreak of anger and hatred at these rallies is that they can't cope with reality, and they would rather lash out at others than deal with their own issues. I worry that some of these people will try to assassinate Obama and/or his supporters, or that there may actually be a number of mass muderer/suicides among these people if Obama is elected.

clapping All of that! clapping
"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #76 posted 10/10/08 4:43pm

PDogz

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January202009 said:

Republicans.... the party of the dividers.

Look at the last 8 years, nothing but division.

nod ...and world wide division at that!
"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #77 posted 10/10/08 4:50pm

PDogz

avatar

kibbles said:

and you still see this scapegoating at work recently. hannity, limbaugh, elizabeth hasselbeck from the view are beating this mantra that "unqualified" blacks and illegal aliens are responsible for the subprime mortgage fiasco. never mind the fact that

1) the law they cite as responsible, community reinvestment act (cra), is regulated and was not involved in the home loan business. the subprime lenders were in most cases recent companies set up specifically to lure *all* americans into buying houses they may not have been able to afford;


2) fannie and freddie, while they have recently been affected by the fiasco, were never directly involved in extending the loans to people, only insuring loans. the responsibility of extending credit to people rested solely with the first people in contact with propective buyers - namely, the banks, s&ls, et al - who in cases where these fradulent loans were made, were engaged in predatory lending practices. but they didn't care. these banks knew they would never be holding the bag at the end of the day because once the mortgages were made, they were sold off to these investment banks and freddie and fannie. how is that the fault of black and brown people? if anything, they were victims just like the many white people who bought into these teaser interest rates, thinking they could refinance when the value of their houses went up. but then the prices began to crash.

3) it wasn't only "unqualified" black and brown people buying houses under the looser standards. my very white friends got a house six years ago with stated income and less than 20% down. sounds like they were "unqualified", doesn't it? but they're still in that house, just like my black friend who bought her house with verified income and no money down around the same time. the right wing decries looser standards without realizing that looser standards is what allowed the white middle class to grow via the g.i. bill which opened up home ownership to those who had been shut out of the system. so social programs are okay if they're geared toward whites, but if they're for blacks and others, they're not?

4) how do these people even know that the holders of subprime mortgages are the main people in default? the banks won't let the fed and treasury see what's in the mortgage bundles so how can hannity, et al make blacks and browns the scapegoats? moreover, most people are current on their loans, and i'm assuming that would include the majority of people who had subprime loans. oh, i forgot, facts don't matter when you're scapegoating people.

hrmph Ain't that some shit?!?
"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #78 posted 10/10/08 5:22pm

PDogz

avatar

lascantas said:

I just wish people would not make blanket statements about everybody who chooses to follow religion because we are not all bad --or stupid people.

I agree that blanket statements are wrong, and it's rarely accurate to speak in absolutes (ie: using words like "everybody", "nobody","always" or "never"). And although I consider myself an extremely spiritual person, I am way more comfortable with someone who "demonstrates" their religion, rather than someone who "practices" their religion in any sort of organized fashion.
"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #79 posted 10/10/08 5:29pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

on Countdown, they're talking about McCain having to rein in his own supporters at a townhall meeting today. after an audience member said that he was afraid of an Obama presidency, and when McCain said that Obama was a decent man, the crowd booed him! eek
[Edited 10/10/08 17:45pm]
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Reply #80 posted 10/10/08 5:43pm

Stymie

PDogz said:

lascantas said:

I just wish people would not make blanket statements about everybody who chooses to follow religion because we are not all bad --or stupid people.

I agree that blanket statements are wrong, and it's rarely accurate to speak in absolutes (ie: using words like "everybody", "nobody","always" or "never"). And although I consider myself an extremely spiritual person, I am way more comfortable with someone who "demonstrates" their religion, rather than someone who "practices" their religion in any sort of organized fashion.
Bingo!!!

I can only go on my experiences, lascantas. i can count the number of people who practice what they preach in my real life on two fingers.
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Reply #81 posted 10/10/08 5:49pm

2the9s

IrresistibleB1tch said:

on Countdown, they're talking about McCain having to rein in his own supporters at a townhall meeting today. after an audience member said that he was afraid of an Obama presidency, and when McCain said that Obama was a decent man, the crowd booed him! eek
[Edited 10/10/08 17:45pm]


namepeace just posted a link to the story as well.

Hopefully McCain is starting to get it and will be more forceful in quelling this stuff. I hope he proves to have more dignity and foresight in this than Hillary has shown.
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Reply #82 posted 10/10/08 5:57pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

avatar

IrresistibleB1tch said:

on Countdown, they're talking about McCain having to rein in his own supporters at a townhall meeting today. after an audience member said that he was afraid of an Obama presidency, and when McCain said that Obama was a decent man, the crowd booed him! eek
[Edited 10/10/08 17:45pm]

Damn, they're gonna lynch him and Palin if they're not careful! lol
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #83 posted 10/10/08 5:58pm

2the9s

And by the way, the only person recently who has dealt charitably with the kind of hatred like that shown by McCain supporters in these videos is Barack Obama himself, who in his Philadelphia speech earlier this year said this...

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition.


And yet all that some people took from the entirety of this brilliant and compassionate speech was that...

...he threw his grandmother under the bus. neutral

Extraordinary.

These firebrands complain about rhetoric, while reducing it to cliche.
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Reply #84 posted 10/10/08 6:01pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

2the9s said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

on Countdown, they're talking about McCain having to rein in his own supporters at a townhall meeting today. after an audience member said that he was afraid of an Obama presidency, and when McCain said that Obama was a decent man, the crowd booed him! eek
[Edited 10/10/08 17:45pm]


namepeace just posted a link to the story as well.

Hopefully McCain is starting to get it and will be more forceful in quelling this stuff. I hope he proves to have more dignity and foresight in this than Hillary has shown.


oops, missed Namepeace's post.

yup, that's the only way he can get out of this mess with any sort of dignity. but the Hannities of this world won't like it one big - they loved the terrorism angle.
[Edited 10/10/08 18:01pm]
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Reply #85 posted 10/10/08 6:15pm

lascantas

Stymie said:

PDogz said:


I agree that blanket statements are wrong, and it's rarely accurate to speak in absolutes (ie: using words like "everybody", "nobody","always" or "never"). And although I consider myself an extremely spiritual person, I am way more comfortable with someone who "demonstrates" their religion, rather than someone who "practices" their religion in any sort of organized fashion.
Bingo!!!

I can only go on my experiences, lascantas. i can count the number of people who practice what they preach in my real life on two fingers.


You know Stymie, I have already said I sympathize with your experiences. But if you are looking for role models in the Catholic church or any religion, well I think you are setting yourself up for a let down. The problem is that no.. we are not perfect. We make mistakes--just like anybody else. No... we are not compassionate all the time. No we are not nice.. I have made many, many, many mistakes which I regret. I only hope I learn from them..

But let me say, I do not think there is anyone more "perfect" who is not religious. I just think we are all imperfect.. and of course this varies in degrees. Some people are more "troubled" than others. But this is true whether in religion or not. The difference is that MOST of us in religion try to seek a higher power.. God to help us remember and learn--to be better, to have strength. Other people seek only the power from within.

I am not trying to disgree or agree with whether or not God exists because this is a matter of faith. But what we all have in common is our imperfection--and then are great ability to be..more than what we thought. To have love and compassion more than we thought capable. So.. I am just saying that it is not fair to always say.. religion let you down. Well I have a feeling a lot of people and institutions have let each one of us down to some degree. Some like me.. have been very fortunate.. Very, very fortunate. I know how lucky I am.. and this is not because I am necessarily a "better" person.. but more I am lucky.

Whether or not I am a better person is my growth from within. And I feel like I am a good person.. And for me.. my faith has helped me.

Anyway.. I just know there are very compassionate Christians and even Catholics out there. This is all I am getting at..
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Reply #86 posted 10/10/08 6:23pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

avatar

lascantas said:

Stymie said:

Bingo!!!

I can only go on my experiences, lascantas. i can count the number of people who practice what they preach in my real life on two fingers.


You know Stymie, I have already said I sympathize with your experiences. But if you are looking for role models in the Catholic church or any religion, well I think you are setting yourself up for a let down. The problem is that no.. we are not perfect. We make mistakes--just like anybody else. No... we are not compassionate all the time. No we are not nice.. I have made many, many, many mistakes which I regret. I only hope I learn from them..

But let me say, I do not think there is anyone more "perfect" who is not religious. I just think we are all imperfect.. and of course this varies in degrees. Some people are more "troubled" than others. But this is true whether in religion or not. The difference is that MOST of us in religion try to seek a higher power.. God to help us remember and learn--to be better, to have strength. Other people seek only the power from within.

I am not trying to disgree or agree with whether or not God exists because this is a matter of faith. But what we all have in common is our imperfection--and then are great ability to be..more than what we thought. To have love and compassion more than we thought capable. So.. I am just saying that it is not fair to always say.. religion let you down. Well I have a feeling a lot of people and institutions have let each one of us down to some degree. Some like me.. have been very fortunate.. Very, very fortunate. I know how lucky I am.. and this is not because I am necessarily a "better" person.. but more I am lucky.

Whether or not I am a better person is my growth from within. And I feel like I am a good person.. And for me.. my faith has helped me.

Anyway.. I just know there are very compassionate Christians and even Catholics out there. This is all I am getting at..


Dearest lascantas, don't take any of our rants personally. You've proven to be levelheaded and not a hateful person so any diatribes that any of us lay down against the church, organized religion and many believers should be taken with a grain of salt smile

hug
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #87 posted 10/10/08 6:25pm

Stymie

lascantas said:

Stymie said:

Bingo!!!

I can only go on my experiences, lascantas. i can count the number of people who practice what they preach in my real life on two fingers.


You know Stymie, I have already said I sympathize with your experiences. But if you are looking for role models in the Catholic church or any religion, well I think you are setting yourself up for a let down. The problem is that no.. we are not perfect. We make mistakes--just like anybody else. No... we are not compassionate all the time. No we are not nice.. I have made many, many, many mistakes which I regret. I only hope I learn from them..

But let me say, I do not think there is anyone more "perfect" who is not religious. I just think we are all imperfect.. and of course this varies in degrees. Some people are more "troubled" than others. But this is true whether in religion or not. The difference is that MOST of us in religion try to seek a higher power.. God to help us remember and learn--to be better, to have strength. Other people seek only the power from within.

I am not trying to disgree or agree with whether or not God exists because this is a matter of faith. But what we all have in common is our imperfection--and then are great ability to be..more than what we thought. To have love and compassion more than we thought capable. So.. I am just saying that it is not fair to always say.. religion let you down. Well I have a feeling a lot of people and institutions have let each one of us down to some degree. Some like me.. have been very fortunate.. Very, very fortunate. I know how lucky I am.. and this is not because I am necessarily a "better" person.. but more I am lucky.

Whether or not I am a better person is my growth from within. And I feel like I am a good person.. And for me.. my faith has helped me.

Anyway.. I just know there are very compassionate Christians and even Catholics out there. This is all I am getting at..
Jesus Christ, no. lol

I do not look to anyone in any church to be a role model. And I know there are good people in all faiths. I think Lamma and Namepeace "show" what a good Christian is. Now, when i see people saying I can't be christian becasue I am bi or because I believe a woman should have the right to choose when those very same people have their own sins to worry about, that's when it gets on my nerves. These people are no better than me because they go to church or follow a particular faith, but they think that they are. I don;t want to be around that mess so I practice my faith alone. I don't need some human being acting as a stumbling block.
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Reply #88 posted 10/10/08 6:32pm

lascantas

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

lascantas said:



You know Stymie, I have already said I sympathize with your experiences. But if you are looking for role models in the Catholic church or any religion, well I think you are setting yourself up for a let down. The problem is that no.. we are not perfect. We make mistakes--just like anybody else. No... we are not compassionate all the time. No we are not nice.. I have made many, many, many mistakes which I regret. I only hope I learn from them..

But let me say, I do not think there is anyone more "perfect" who is not religious. I just think we are all imperfect.. and of course this varies in degrees. Some people are more "troubled" than others. But this is true whether in religion or not. The difference is that MOST of us in religion try to seek a higher power.. God to help us remember and learn--to be better, to have strength. Other people seek only the power from within.

I am not trying to disgree or agree with whether or not God exists because this is a matter of faith. But what we all have in common is our imperfection--and then are great ability to be..more than what we thought. To have love and compassion more than we thought capable. So.. I am just saying that it is not fair to always say.. religion let you down. Well I have a feeling a lot of people and institutions have let each one of us down to some degree. Some like me.. have been very fortunate.. Very, very fortunate. I know how lucky I am.. and this is not because I am necessarily a "better" person.. but more I am lucky.

Whether or not I am a better person is my growth from within. And I feel like I am a good person.. And for me.. my faith has helped me.

Anyway.. I just know there are very compassionate Christians and even Catholics out there. This is all I am getting at..


Dearest lascantas, don't take any of our rants personally. You've proven to be levelheaded and not a hateful person so any diatribes that any of us lay down against the church, organized religion and many believers should be taken with a grain of salt smile

hug



Thank you so much... Supa.... LOL! But I cannot help but take it personally! sad

I love participating here.. But you know, I just feel that people are confusing "religion" with people's imperfections. It does not matter if one is religious or not really because we are all still imperfect.

I know I cannot explain very well, but just because one is a member of a church or faith does not mean he or she is any less perfect, you know? Of course, one would hope after many hours of study, a religious person would "practice" more.. but you know. I just think it is a struggle.

I just think people believe being a "Catholic" or just "Christian" means that then we should be examples--that we should be this standard. But maybe--like i school only the "best" students are examples? Or maybe not even the best students but ones who can really "internalize???" the lessons are the best. I just think people who can "internalize" are few and far between regardless of the circumstances. So many of us are still struggling--every day.

Anyway.. I am just trying to point-out it is not only "religious" people who can be disappointments. This is all I am trying to say..

Thank you though for being so sweet!
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Reply #89 posted 10/10/08 6:40pm

Adisa

avatar

2the9s said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

on Countdown, they're talking about McCain having to rein in his own supporters at a townhall meeting today. after an audience member said that he was afraid of an Obama presidency, and when McCain said that Obama was a decent man, the crowd booed him! eek


namepeace just posted a link to the story as well.

Hopefully McCain is starting to get it and will be more forceful in quelling this stuff. I hope he proves to have more dignity and foresight in this than Hillary has shown.

I saw this story on the news earlier. Speechless.
I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired!
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