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Thread started 08/19/07 5:16am

Christaro

Do you believe God has a will?

If so, what does He/She want from us?
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Reply #1 posted 08/19/07 5:26am

Anxiety

you mean like did He write one? that's deep. could you imagine being God's lawyer???
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Reply #2 posted 08/19/07 6:00am

Cloudbuster

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For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.
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Reply #3 posted 08/19/07 8:08am

mav777

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Anxiety said:

you mean like did He write one? that's deep. could you imagine being God's lawyer???


Don't you write a will in expectation of death? Can you imagine that funeral?
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Reply #4 posted 08/19/07 8:22am

NewSystem

Christaro said:

If so, what does He/She want from us?


http://www.watchtower.org...cle_00.htm

smile
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Reply #5 posted 08/19/07 9:42am

Rhondab

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.



that would be MAN's will
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Reply #6 posted 08/19/07 10:28am

m3taverse

There isn't a god, so there isn't a will either, obviously.
"this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre"
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Reply #7 posted 08/19/07 12:06pm

FunkJam

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m3taverse said:

There isn't a god, so there isn't a will either, obviously.


Yes that's what I think also. I do believe however that there are strange forces and powers in the universe which have no order but can make things happen, although they are mostly random things. That's about the closest you are getting to any sort of god.
"Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system" - Bruce Lee
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Reply #8 posted 08/19/07 12:59pm

weepingwall

i think people tend to get very attached with the gift of the afterlife and or the father's love and forget to live their life! the attachments of god,sin,will,etc is all pointless because their is only right now and right here..live your life according to what you want to believe in..but don't let it cloud your reality..
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Reply #9 posted 08/19/07 2:54pm

Christaro

Anxiety said:

you mean like did He write one? that's deep. could you imagine being God's lawyer???

biggrin
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Reply #10 posted 08/19/07 2:57pm

Christaro

NewSystem said:

Christaro said:

If so, what does He/She want from us?


http://www.watchtower.org...cle_00.htm

smile


I am not familiar with the Jehova Witness belief system. Could you write in your own words what God wants from us?
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Reply #11 posted 08/19/07 3:03pm

Christaro

Rhondab said:

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.



that would be MAN's will


I agree. We could change this crazy world tomorrow. If we only had politicians with wisdom, courage and a heart in the right place.
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Reply #12 posted 08/19/07 3:22pm

m3taverse

Cloudbuster is phrasing it a bit harsh perhaps, but I agree in this sense:

Most of you here believe that a deity created mankind with the purpose of having it worship him and live life according to his rules. In stead of programming these rules into the new species, he gave them something called "free will". This free will allows man to be lead astray and be confused by the deity's message. Yet, there are serious repercussions for the individual that makes a mistake against the rules, even if that individual is trying to understand what the deity wants.
The whole of creation then becomes a game that has mankind running through a maze, hoping they'll run into the right interpretation of the rules.
So in that sense, I'm ok with using the word sadistic.
"this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre"
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Reply #13 posted 08/19/07 3:33pm

FunkJam

avatar

m3taverse said:

Cloudbuster is phrasing it a bit harsh perhaps, but I agree in this sense:

Most of you here believe that a deity created mankind with the purpose of having it worship him and live life according to his rules. In stead of programming these rules into the new species, he gave them something called "free will". This free will allows man to be lead astray and be confused by the deity's message. Yet, there are serious repercussions for the individual that makes a mistake against the rules, even if that individual is trying to understand what the deity wants.
The whole of creation then becomes a game that has mankind running through a maze, hoping they'll run into the right interpretation of the rules.
So in that sense, I'm ok with using the word sadistic.


Yeah, that's exactly what's wrong with the whole concept of what God is.
[Edited 8/19/07 15:34pm]
"Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system" - Bruce Lee
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Reply #14 posted 08/19/07 4:41pm

coolcat

Anxiety said:

you mean like did He write one?


Yup. He's leaving me the sun. nod
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Reply #15 posted 08/19/07 4:52pm

SensualMelody

Rhondab said:

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.



that would be MAN's will


clapping clapping
Blaming stuff on God...Tsk tsk tsk! no no no!
So...how's everybody doing? smile
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Reply #16 posted 08/19/07 10:53pm

morningsong

Yes he does, we're just not very cooperative. Like putting a 1 yr old in a car seat that doesn't want to go.
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Reply #17 posted 08/19/07 11:38pm

lazycrockett

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Talk bout a Totalitarian "creator".
[Edited 8/19/07 23:39pm]
The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #18 posted 08/20/07 3:40am

Cloudbuster

avatar

Rhondab said:

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.



that would be MAN's will


If God is the originator of all things, and omniscient (the ability to know all) then he should have been capable of seeing the future and the mess that it would become and thought "Hey, that's a bit shit. I'll turn it around".

That's my opinion of it. If God is the first cause of all things, and knowing the outcome of all things, then he is to blame.
I mean, think about it... If I had created a living being, and then just sat back and watched it suffer, you'd consider me some kind of monster, right?

And don't lay "free will" on me, 'cos as far as I'm concerned that's just another way of saying "There is no God". wink
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Reply #19 posted 08/20/07 4:26am

Christaro

m3taverse said:

Cloudbuster is phrasing it a bit harsh perhaps, but I agree in this sense:

Most of you here believe that a deity created mankind with the purpose of having it worship him and live life according to his rules. In stead of programming these rules into the new species, he gave them something called "free will". This free will allows man to be lead astray and be confused by the deity's message. Yet, there are serious repercussions for the individual that makes a mistake against the rules, even if that individual is trying to understand what the deity wants.
The whole of creation then becomes a game that has mankind running through a maze, hoping they'll run into the right interpretation of the rules.
So in that sense, I'm ok with using the word sadistic.


If you refer to the God in the Bible: yes, you are right. That is indeed a needy, angry and vengeful God. I don't believe in such a God. I believe in a loving, omniscient and everlasting God. I don't think God needs or wants something from us. If you are everything and anything there ever was, is and will be: what could you possibly need or want? Therefore I don't believe in God's 'will'.
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Reply #20 posted 08/20/07 4:36am

Christaro

Cloudbuster said:

Rhondab said:




that would be MAN's will


If God is the originator of all things, and omniscient (the ability to know all) then he should have been capable of seeing the future and the mess that it would become and thought "Hey, that's a bit shit. I'll turn it around".

That's my opinion of it. If God is the first cause of all things, and knowing the outcome of all things, then he is to blame.
I mean, think about it... If I had created a living being, and then just sat back and watched it suffer, you'd consider me some kind of monster, right?

And don't lay "free will" on me, 'cos as far as I'm concerned that's just another way of saying "There is no God". wink


Yes, I believe God is capable of seeing the future and God knows the outcome: It will turn out just fine. This is exactly the reason why God doesn't interfere with anybody's choices. He knows the happy end. Every single soul will eventually return to God. But as Prince sang: 'We've got a long way to go".
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Reply #21 posted 08/20/07 4:42am

Rhondab

m3taverse said:

Cloudbuster is phrasing it a bit harsh perhaps, but I agree in this sense:

Most of you here believe that a deity created mankind with the purpose of having it worship him and live life according to his rules. In stead of programming these rules into the new species, he gave them something called "free will". This free will allows man to be lead astray and be confused by the deity's message. Yet, there are serious repercussions for the individual that makes a mistake against the rules, even if that individual is trying to understand what the deity wants.The whole of creation then becomes a game that has mankind running through a maze, hoping they'll run into the right interpretation of the rules.
So in that sense, I'm ok with using the word sadistic.



When you were a child, your mother said, "Don't touch the stove, its hot and it will burn your fingers." You walk over to the stove.....and burn your fingers.

Is your mother sadastic? did she confuse you? Were you lead astray?

The rules are in place, warnings are even given but we still want to blame God for us touching the stove.....Nah..lol
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Reply #22 posted 08/20/07 6:25am

Anxiety

coolcat said:

Anxiety said:

you mean like did He write one?


Yup. He's leaving me the sun. nod


lucky. pout

God just e-mailed me and all i'm getting is a dumb rock tumbler and His cassingle collection.
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Reply #23 posted 08/20/07 6:53am

m3taverse

Rhondab said:

m3taverse said:

Cloudbuster is phrasing it a bit harsh perhaps, but I agree in this sense:

Most of you here believe that a deity created mankind with the purpose of having it worship him and live life according to his rules. In stead of programming these rules into the new species, he gave them something called "free will". This free will allows man to be lead astray and be confused by the deity's message. Yet, there are serious repercussions for the individual that makes a mistake against the rules, even if that individual is trying to understand what the deity wants.The whole of creation then becomes a game that has mankind running through a maze, hoping they'll run into the right interpretation of the rules.
So in that sense, I'm ok with using the word sadistic.



When you were a child, your mother said, "Don't touch the stove, its hot and it will burn your fingers." You walk over to the stove.....and burn your fingers.

Is your mother sadastic? did she confuse you? Were you lead astray?

The rules are in place, warnings are even given but we still want to blame God for us touching the stove.....Nah..lol


That isn't the same tho.
Look, if it's so important to God that we worship him and live life exactly as he intended, why not just create us as drones that do exactly what's needed and have it over with. But nohooo... he had to give us this free will thing, which in the context of God's bigger plan can only be seen as a handicap towards accomplishing his wishes. To make matters worse, if we somehow don't figure out what God wants, there will be serious repercussions.
It's a strange game this God is playing with us.
"this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre"
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Reply #24 posted 08/20/07 7:11am

Cloudbuster

avatar

m3taverse said:

That isn't the same tho.
Look, if it's so important to God that we worship him and live life exactly as he intended, why not just create us as drones that do exactly what's needed and have it over with. But nohooo... he had to give us this free will thing, which in the context of God's bigger plan can only be seen as a handicap towards accomplishing his wishes. To make matters worse, if we somehow don't figure out what God wants, there will be serious repercussions.
It's a strange game this God is playing with us.


smile
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Reply #25 posted 08/20/07 12:30pm

seekingtruth

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.



Depends on your perspective.

All of those things you described are physical by nature.

What if a you could be spiritually blessed and physically deprived?
What if you consider 80 years vs. eternity?
True genius is knowing how little
you really know.
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Reply #26 posted 08/20/07 1:27pm

Rhondab

m3taverse said:

Rhondab said:




When you were a child, your mother said, "Don't touch the stove, its hot and it will burn your fingers." You walk over to the stove.....and burn your fingers.

Is your mother sadastic? did she confuse you? Were you lead astray?

The rules are in place, warnings are even given but we still want to blame God for us touching the stove.....Nah..lol


That isn't the same tho.
Look, if it's so important to God that we worship him and live life exactly as he intended, why not just create us as drones that do exactly what's needed and have it over with. But nohooo... he had to give us this free will thing, which in the context of God's bigger plan can only be seen as a handicap towards accomplishing his wishes. To make matters worse, if we somehow don't figure out what God wants, there will be serious repercussions.
It's a strange game this God is playing with us.



Interesting.....amd I can easily see how someone would come to this conclusion.

We are provided path for a certain way of life, to be able to overcome the many things we put in motion ourselves. The thing is, God's plans will always come about with or without you or me or whomever. We each can say, no, I'm not insterested and move on. There will be someone that says yes to the plan and then follow through.

My ex believes he was called to preach but doesn't want to do it and he doesn't. Nothing horrible has happened to him. he wasn't struck with a disease or whatever.

We were not created to be drones. Angels tend to have drone like charateristics (in my opinion).

Man never likes to take responsibility for his own actions.
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Reply #27 posted 08/21/07 3:03am

andyf

FunkJam said:

m3taverse said:

There isn't a god, so there isn't a will either, obviously.


Yes that's what I think also. I do believe however that there are strange forces and powers in the universe which have no order but can make things happen, although they are mostly random things. That's about the closest you are getting to any sort of god.
Sounds very close to me.
--------
"Someone who makes you laugh when you wanna cry"
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Reply #28 posted 08/21/07 7:48am

Eternaldragon

avatar

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.


Millions of people with their backs turned away from God, heeding him never no mind.

Next time they are suffering, they should look to thier own sadistic treatment towards God himself.
pray flag "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6)
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Reply #29 posted 08/21/07 10:32am

m3taverse

Eternaldragon said:

Cloudbuster said:

For us to suffer. Obviously.

Millions dead from AIDS in Africa every year.
Millions in poverty and starving.
Millions living among landmines.
Millions ill from one horrid disease or another.

I could go on for days, couldn't I.

His will is for us to suffer.

Sadistic shit.


Millions of people with their backs turned away from God, heeding him never no mind.

Next time they are suffering, they should look to thier own sadistic treatment towards God himself.


And here is where true Christianity shows its ugly head once more.
Those people in Africa wouldn't be starving to death if they had just visited the creationism museum.
"this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre"
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