independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Politics & Religion > Cuban-Americans: what the heck are you celebrating?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 3 of 3 <123
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #60 posted 08/05/06 8:50pm

darkstranger52
1

dseann said:

darkstranger521 said:



See, though, in a way, the wars in Afganistan and Iraq right now are proxy wars against China. They are wars designed to control China's future access to oil, for the very reasons you have already outlined. I would not rule out the United States going after China, because, again as you pointed out, the US ruling class has its back to the wall. We were VERY close to nuking China during the Korean War. Only our fear of what Russia might do stopped us. Very close. Of course, a war against China cannot be won, and may well end life on Earth. But the ruling class in the United States will NEVER quietly give up it's top dawg status. I firmly believe they would sacrifice all life on Earth to maintain their privileges, if they felt that was necessary. Their privileged status is all that they live for. We should not attempt to be TOO logical. From our perspective it is madness to attack China, from the ruling class' perspective something HAS to be done about China NOW. The war in Iraq is going very badly. The country is on the verge of Civil War. How will the US get the oil out? How will the US use Iraq as a base of operations for further military expeditions into Iran and *especially* the Caspian Sea region of Russia? These areas were very much part of the Iraq plan from the beginning, but accessing them militarily was predicated upon a stable situation in Iraq, which has yet to, and may never, materialize. So the US strategy to contain China isn't working, which we've known all along it couldn't. The folks who unleashed the war in Iraq are well aware. They have other options. Nuking china is certainly one of them.


Interesting and informative post, tanx for opening my eyes to the situation a little more.
I agree and as you said, war with China can't be won and will end life on earth.

cool


Thanks...I have found this a very thought-provoking and excellent thread.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #61 posted 08/05/06 9:23pm

babynoz

Ottensen said:

The level of blind irrationality that runs amuck in the Miami Cuban American community in terms of corruption and totalitarian control is America's best kept secret. Given that my time in S. Florida often made me feel like I was an alien citizen in a fascist dictatorship, I'm dropping the topic. This is a really heart searing, ugly issue to revisit for me. neutral





I know what you mean. I've had Cuban friends explain the history of what really happened in Cuba to me and then beg me not to tell other Cubans they said it for fear of retaliation.

They tell me that life for the vast majority of Cubans under the US/Mafia puppet regime of Batista was unbearable. Extreme poverty was rampant. Healthcare and education for the masses was non existent. Only a very small, privileged ruling class enjoyed a comfortable life. Widespread racism was also the order of the day.

In short, they explain the situation exactly as Darkstranger has outlined it. To voice this point of view in Miami, however, would be taking their life in their hands. You simply cannot say any of this out loud in Miami even though it's supposedly still part of the United States.

Not that Castro is a peach of a guy. My opinion of him is no different than my opinion of any man in power who did what he felt he had to do to seize that power and will do what he has to do to keep it, political ideology nothwithstanding.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #62 posted 08/06/06 2:32am

LuxuryBrown

avatar

darkstranger521 said:

LuxuryBrown said:



If you think China doesn't give a shit about nuclear consequences then there's no reason to continue this diuscussion with you. For some strange reason you think China is this savage nation and has zero fear of anything, to which you couldn't be further from the truth.


The Chinese are not savages, but they ARE fearless. I think you would gain some insight if you gave the history of the Korean War a bit of study. In this conflict, the Chinese showed the whole world exactly how low their balls hang. It is really not an open question.

The other thing you fail to consider is if China were attacked, she would be aided by at a minimum India and likely Russia. If China were attacked by the US, we are talking WW3, and China would have plenty of allies - PLENTY. The majority of the world HATES the American government and the corporate ruling class they whore for right now - China would not have to look far for friends.

That comment in bold shows me you're stuck in the early 80s when it comes to world affairs. Discussion done. Read up on the fall of the Soviet Union and then we can continue.
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #63 posted 08/08/06 7:14am

dseann

LuxuryBrown said:

dseann said:




America has persevered with a shitty human rights record as well.
They are now covering up their shitty abuse of rights in Iraq and Cuba with their "interegational practices"(torture), which if applied to Americans would be made to seem like the worst thing on God's earth.
Military weapons don't mean shit to China, they have extensive nuclear capabilities which they aren't afraid to use and America knows this. It's the only reason America hasn't tried to do shit to them to date.


Get real. The U.S., as shitty as they are, STILL does WAY better on human rights than China, so don't even try it.

And again, name China's allies that would help fight the U.S.?


Do you need allies to fire off nukes?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #64 posted 08/08/06 7:15am

dseann

LuxuryBrown said:

dseann said:




Nuclear weapons cancels any advantage in weaponry my friend.....You fire your nukes, I fire my nukes.....no one can win.
What it comes down to is who has the balls to push the button. America would like to but are afraid of the consequences. China doesn't give a shit about consequences, their mentality is shoot at me, I'm shooting back no matter what.


If you think China doesn't give a shit about nuclear consequences then there's no reason to continue this diuscussion with you. For some strange reason you think China is this savage nation and has zero fear of anything, to which you couldn't be further from the truth.


No problem don't continue this conversation with me.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #65 posted 08/08/06 8:54am

LuxuryBrown

avatar

dseann said:

LuxuryBrown said:



Get real. The U.S., as shitty as they are, STILL does WAY better on human rights than China, so don't even try it.

And again, name China's allies that would help fight the U.S.?


Do you need allies to fire off nukes?


So you can't name their allies. Thanks for playing.
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #66 posted 08/08/06 9:31am

namepeace

darkstranger521 said:

If China were attacked by the US, we are talking WW3, and China would have plenty of allies - PLENTY. The majority of the world HATES the American government and the corporate ruling class they whore for right now - China would not have to look far for friends.


We're talking hypothetically right now, but "allies" and "supporters" are 2 different things.

A lot of countries might support such a move because enmity against the US is so high right now.

But a lot of countries won't join in against the US, no matter how badly they might "hate" us. For 2 reasons:

1. The US gives too much money to too many people around the world.

2. Many if not most potential "allies" of China wouldn't want to replace US predominance with Chinese predominance.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #67 posted 08/08/06 9:41am

LuxuryBrown

avatar

namepeace said:

darkstranger521 said:

If China were attacked by the US, we are talking WW3, and China would have plenty of allies - PLENTY. The majority of the world HATES the American government and the corporate ruling class they whore for right now - China would not have to look far for friends.


We're talking hypothetically right now, but "allies" and "supporters" are 2 different things.

A lot of countries might support such a move because enmity against the US is so high right now.

But a lot of countries won't join in against the US, no matter how badly they might "hate" us. For 2 reasons:

1. The US gives too much money to too many people around the world.

2. Many if not most potential "allies" of China wouldn't want to replace US predominance with Chinese predominance.

Thank you brotha.
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #68 posted 08/08/06 9:08pm

PurpleJedi

avatar

hijacked

How did a thread about Fidel Castro and CUBA turn into a discussion about invasions and CHINA?!?!
whofarted
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #69 posted 08/08/06 9:22pm

LuxuryBrown

avatar

PurpleJedi said:

hijacked

How did a thread about Fidel Castro and CUBA turn into a discussion about invasions and CHINA?!?!
whofarted

falloff
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #70 posted 08/09/06 2:11am

Illustrator

dseann said:

LuxuryBrown said:



Get real. The U.S., as shitty as they are, STILL does WAY better on human rights than China, so don't even try it.

And again, name China's allies that would help fight the U.S.?


Do you need allies to fire off nukes?

How many allies does it take to fire off a nuke?
Two.
One to light the fuse, & another to plug his ears when it goes off.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #71 posted 08/09/06 2:15am

Illustrator

PurpleJedi said:

hijacked

How did a thread about Fidel Castro and CUBA turn into a discussion about invasions and CHINA?!?!
whofarted


After a year of reading how y'all are on this forum,
I wouldn't attend an org invasion for all the tea in China.



.
[Edited 8/9/06 2:16am]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #72 posted 08/09/06 5:43pm

PurpleJedi

avatar

Illustrator said:

PurpleJedi said:

hijacked

How did a thread about Fidel Castro and CUBA turn into a discussion about invasions and CHINA?!?!
whofarted


After a year of reading how y'all are on this forum,
I wouldn't attend an org invasion for all the tea in China.



...how about for all the biscuits in Texas?
...or all the maple syrup in Vermont?
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #73 posted 08/09/06 10:14pm

DorothyParkerW
asCool

darkstranger521 said:

SlamGlam said:



so you have no porblem with all the people he mudered? let me guess you also think Che Guevara was also a great man?


The Cuban Revolution began from the moment Columbus set foot in Cuba. It went through many stages...many slave rebellions...it picked up steam when Marti and Maceo kicked the Spanish out in 1890s, only to come under US domination. Only when the revolutionaries under the leadership of Fidel Castro seized power in 1959, ONLY THEN, for the 1st time in 450+ years, did Cuba actually belong to Cubans. The attitude of people in Cuba today, and I know because I have spent time there, is that Cuba may be poor, but at least it is THEIRS. Every single Cuban I met was ready to die if the Americans invaded. Every Cuban I met was united around the idea that the counter-revolutionaires can never, ever return to take possession of anything. The general Cuban attitude towards Cubans in Miami is that they are cowards, that if they believed so much in capitalism, they should have stayed in Cuba and died in Cuba in order to build capitalism in Cuba and that they took the cowards way out by leaving the country. "If they left it behind (houses, etc), than it's ours! They should have stayed and fought!" they say with a smile. The Cubans believe in fighting, and they don't respect those who won't fight for what they believe in - those who choose to run instead. They call those that leave for the US - their own family members in some cases - gusanos - "worms". There are no ideological disagreements in Cuba about socialism vs. capitalism. Nobody in Cuba, save a few nutjobs, wants capitalism, because EVERY cuban knows that under capitalism they will become a colony again overnight. Saying capitalism will benefit Cubans today is akin to saying that a return to slavery will improve the lives of African-Americans today - it's a completely irrantional, ignorant and totally backward train of thought. Despite their continued problems in present-day America, I don't know ANY black folks that would even entertain for one second a return to the slavery of yesteryear.

Cuba being poor has nothing to do with Castro. Cuba is poor, because it is a poor country and always has been. It was poor under Batista, it was poor hundreds of years prior to that. This economic siutation cannot be turned around overnight. The difference under Castro is that the wealth the country DOES possess is not allowed to be hoarded by 5-10% of the population - who live like kings and princesses, while everyone else is a starving illiterate. The return of capitalism to Cuba means a return to 90% of the population becoming starving illiterates. That is what anyone who makes an argument for capitalism in Cuba is actually arguing for, and I want everyone who reads this thread to understand this.

People such as SlamGlam are very small people, actually. They hate so deeply the revolutionaries who put it ALL on the line for the chance of a better, different world, because these revolutionaries remind the small of their smallness, something the small cannot bear. This is why the small lash out so strongly against the revolutionaries. Pay them no mind at all.


Outstanding post
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #74 posted 08/10/06 4:56pm

dseann

PurpleJedi said:

hijacked

How did a thread about Fidel Castro and CUBA turn into a discussion about invasions and CHINA?!?!
whofarted


Try reading the posts leading up to the topic you mentioned and you will see.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #75 posted 08/15/06 10:40am

LuxuryBrown

avatar

Very interesting read on Fidel and the Civil Rights Movement in America:

http://blackvoices.aol.co...5609990001
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #76 posted 08/15/06 6:13pm

PurpleJedi

avatar

LuxuryBrown said:

Very interesting read on Fidel and the Civil Rights Movement in America:

http://blackvoices.aol.co...5609990001



hmm

Very, very interesting.
I always knew that Castro's revolution stood for achieving equality for Cuba's black population...I never knew that he spoke out against segregation in the US as well.
Very, very interesting. Something that you'll NEVER read about in a history book.
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #77 posted 08/15/06 7:33pm

LuxuryBrown

avatar

PurpleJedi said:

LuxuryBrown said:

Very interesting read on Fidel and the Civil Rights Movement in America:

http://blackvoices.aol.co...5609990001



hmm

Very, very interesting.
I always knew that Castro's revolution stood for achieving equality for Cuba's black population...I never knew that he spoke out against segregation in the US as well.
Very, very interesting. Something that you'll NEVER read about in a history book.

So true.
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #78 posted 08/15/06 7:42pm

sosgemini

avatar

wow...what a great read this thread is...learning a lot of new perspectives...


[just a fav...lets not call slamglam "small people"...disagree with the her all you want but lets not resort to name calling...thanks-sos]
Space for sale...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 3 of 3 <123
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Politics & Religion > Cuban-Americans: what the heck are you celebrating?