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Thread started 04/27/06 9:40am

cborgman

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to the bible literalists...

if we are all the descendants of adamn and eve, and then again decendants of noah and his wife, how is it that there are different races of human?
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #1 posted 04/27/06 10:54am

cborgman

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bump
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #2 posted 04/27/06 11:07am

kisscamille

cborgman said:

if we are all the descendants of adamn and eve, and then again decendants of noah and his wife, how is it that there are different races of human?


And while you explaining the different races, can you explain the neanderthals and Cro-Magnon people?
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Reply #3 posted 04/27/06 11:12am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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I really loved the what you said about Asians coming from Blacks nod
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #4 posted 04/27/06 11:16am

cborgman

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I really loved the what you said about Asians coming from Blacks nod


i thought maybe it was just buried in that thread was the expanation for the lack of answers, so i started this.

and still no answers...
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #5 posted 04/27/06 11:24am

HereToRockYour
World

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cborgman said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I really loved the what you said about Asians coming from Blacks nod


i thought maybe it was just buried in that thread was the expanation for the lack of answers, so i started this.

and still no answers...



'Cause there are none. When you allow an old book to do your thinking, you have a hard time facing new problems.
oh noes, prince is gonna soo me!!1!
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Reply #6 posted 04/27/06 11:37am

NorthernLad

Is this the Babylon story?

Wasn't there a big tower that the builders wanted to reach higher than God, or somesuch nonsense.... and God, in a towering fury, destroyed the tower and spread all the people around, and gave them different languages so that they couldn't communicate?

something like that. I'm sure a few details are fuzzy. There really should be a movie about that, it would make for some good special effects!! cool
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Reply #7 posted 04/27/06 11:39am

cborgman

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NorthernLad said:

Is this the Babylon story?

Wasn't there a big tower that the builders wanted to reach higher than God, or somesuch nonsense.... and God, in a towering fury, destroyed the tower and spread all the people around, and gave them different languages so that they couldn't communicate?

something like that. I'm sure a few details are fuzzy. There really should be a movie about that, it would make for some good special effects!! cool


language doesn't account for race.
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 04/27/06 11:42am

roanmairin

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NorthernLad said:

Is this the Babylon story?

Wasn't there a big tower that the builders wanted to reach higher than God, or somesuch nonsense.... and God, in a towering fury, destroyed the tower and spread all the people around, and gave them different languages so that they couldn't communicate?

something like that. I'm sure a few details are fuzzy. There really should be a movie about that, it would make for some good special effects!! cool


Hey, christians have an answer for everything.

Fortunately for them they don't require their answers to be logical, probable or even possible.

It must be like being insane, just blissfully coasting through life talking to trees and rocks.

ED will clear this up for us. smile
[Edited 4/27/06 11:42am]
"What a lovely fat beat with a zompige baslijn"
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Reply #9 posted 04/27/06 11:42am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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cborgman said:

NorthernLad said:

Is this the Babylon story?

Wasn't there a big tower that the builders wanted to reach higher than God, or somesuch nonsense.... and God, in a towering fury, destroyed the tower and spread all the people around, and gave them different languages so that they couldn't communicate?

something like that. I'm sure a few details are fuzzy. There really should be a movie about that, it would make for some good special effects!! cool


language doesn't account for race.


that's the explanation for how race came to be....different languages, different races. I'm sure that will be the explanation from believers lol Although I don't remember new races popping up, just new languages.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #10 posted 04/27/06 11:47am

SensualMelody

I am not a Bible literalist* but I do believe that we all descended from Adam and Eve.
Explaining the development of the various racial characteristics, here is what some scientists say.

“All men living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and are derived from a common stock. . . . Biological differences between human beings are due to differences in hereditary constitution and to the influence of the environment on this genetic potential. In most cases, those differences are due to the interaction of these two sets of factors. . . . Differences between individuals within a race or within a population are often greater than the average differences between races or populations.”—An international body of scientists convened by UNESCO, quoted in Statement on Race (New York, 1972, third ed.), Ashley Montagu, pp. 149, 150.

For me, it's much simpler. Within the genetic makeup...the DNA..of Adam and Eve was placed the ability to produce a variety of characteristics in the children that would be born to them. Noah's three sons are decribed as looking so differently from each other that if we saw them standing side by side today, we would probably swear that Noah's wife had been fooling around. smile

When God confused the language of the ones building the tower of Babel, then groups wh spoke the same migrated to themselves. Then the dominant traits began to proliferate among those groups creating...what man would come to call "races".

* not a literalist in the strictest sense.
I believe the Bible is full of analogies, hyperboles, parables, and symbolisms.
So...how's everybody doing? smile
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Reply #11 posted 04/27/06 11:50am

roanmairin

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SensualMelody said:


I believe the Bible is full of analogies, hyperboles, parables, and symbolisms.


Nicely understated.
"What a lovely fat beat with a zompige baslijn"
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Reply #12 posted 04/27/06 11:52am

roanmairin

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

cborgman said:



language doesn't account for race.


that's the explanation for how race came to be....different languages, different races. I'm sure that will be the explanation from believers lol Although I don't remember new races popping up, just new languages.


Could it be that when these stories were written the knowledge of the races from the far corners of the globe was quite limited?

Just asking. wink
"What a lovely fat beat with a zompige baslijn"
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Reply #13 posted 04/27/06 11:53am

NorthernLad

roanmairin said:

NorthernLad said:

Is this the Babylon story?

Wasn't there a big tower that the builders wanted to reach higher than God, or somesuch nonsense.... and God, in a towering fury, destroyed the tower and spread all the people around, and gave them different languages so that they couldn't communicate?

something like that. I'm sure a few details are fuzzy. There really should be a movie about that, it would make for some good special effects!! cool


Hey, christians have an answer for everything.

Fortunately for them they don't require their answers to be logical, probable or even possible.

It must be like being insane, just blissfully coasting through life talking to trees and rocks.

ED will clear this up for us. smile
[Edited 4/27/06 11:42am]




What's wrong with talking to trees and rocks????
hrmph omg mad
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Reply #14 posted 04/27/06 11:55am

NorthernLad

Actually, the Tower of Babel story is an inventive parable... It's pretty cool, really. It sounds like something an old storyteller would come up with to explain to little kids why people are different all over the world.

imagine the shock 2000 years later if the storyteller knew that people believed it were true!
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Reply #15 posted 04/27/06 12:15pm

cborgman

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SensualMelody said:

I am not a Bible literalist* but I do believe that we all descended from Adam and Eve.
Explaining the development of the various racial characteristics, here is what some scientists say.

“All men living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and are derived from a common stock. . . . Biological differences between human beings are due to differences in hereditary constitution and to the influence of the environment on this genetic potential. In most cases, those differences are due to the interaction of these two sets of factors. . . . Differences between individuals within a race or within a population are often greater than the average differences between races or populations.”—An international body of scientists convened by UNESCO, quoted in Statement on Race (New York, 1972, third ed.), Ashley Montagu, pp. 149, 150.

For me, it's much simpler. Within the genetic makeup...the DNA..of Adam and Eve was placed the ability to produce a variety of characteristics in the children that would be born to them. Noah's three sons are decribed as looking so differently from each other that if we saw them standing side by side today, we would probably swear that Noah's wife had been fooling around. smile

When God confused the language of the ones building the tower of Babel, then groups wh spoke the same migrated to themselves. Then the dominant traits began to proliferate among those groups creating...what man would come to call "races".

* not a literalist in the strictest sense.
I believe the Bible is full of analogies, hyperboles, parables, and symbolisms.


how much of that is biblically sourced versus outside explanation?

and THANK YOU for being brave. hug
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 04/27/06 12:24pm

HereToRockYour
World

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SensualMelody said:

I am not a Bible literalist* but I do believe that we all descended from Adam and Eve.
Explaining the development of the various racial characteristics, here is what some scientists say.

“All men living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and are derived from a common stock. . . . Biological differences between human beings are due to differences in hereditary constitution and to the influence of the environment on this genetic potential. In most cases, those differences are due to the interaction of these two sets of factors. . . . Differences between individuals within a race or within a population are often greater than the average differences between races or populations.”—An international body of scientists convened by UNESCO, quoted in Statement on Race (New York, 1972, third ed.), Ashley Montagu, pp. 149, 150.

For me, it's much simpler. Within the genetic makeup...the DNA..of Adam and Eve was placed the ability to produce a variety of characteristics in the children that would be born to them. Noah's three sons are decribed as looking so differently from each other that if we saw them standing side by side today, we would probably swear that Noah's wife had been fooling around. smile

When God confused the language of the ones building the tower of Babel, then groups wh spoke the same migrated to themselves. Then the dominant traits began to proliferate among those groups creating...what man would come to call "races".

* not a literalist in the strictest sense.
I believe the Bible is full of analogies, hyperboles, parables, and symbolisms.



I, too, appreciate the bravery of jumping in here.

But it doesn't work. Adam and Eve having all of that genetic material ( whofarted ) would not result in the racial differences that we see in the world. Unless God did a WHOLE lot of fiddling, in which case, why bother giving the little buggers all of the DNA in the first place?

Doesn't. Make. Sense.
oh noes, prince is gonna soo me!!1!
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Reply #17 posted 04/27/06 12:45pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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OK.....where does the fact that there is less than 2% difference between the human and primate DNA genome factor in here? smile
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #18 posted 04/27/06 1:04pm

Lammastide

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HereToRockYourWorld said:

SensualMelody said:

I am not a Bible literalist* but I do believe that we all descended from Adam and Eve.
Explaining the development of the various racial characteristics, here is what some scientists say.

“All men living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and are derived from a common stock. . . . Biological differences between human beings are due to differences in hereditary constitution and to the influence of the environment on this genetic potential. In most cases, those differences are due to the interaction of these two sets of factors. . . . Differences between individuals within a race or within a population are often greater than the average differences between races or populations.”—An international body of scientists convened by UNESCO, quoted in Statement on Race (New York, 1972, third ed.), Ashley Montagu, pp. 149, 150.

For me, it's much simpler. Within the genetic makeup...the DNA..of Adam and Eve was placed the ability to produce a variety of characteristics in the children that would be born to them. Noah's three sons are decribed as looking so differently from each other that if we saw them standing side by side today, we would probably swear that Noah's wife had been fooling around. smile

When God confused the language of the ones building the tower of Babel, then groups wh spoke the same migrated to themselves. Then the dominant traits began to proliferate among those groups creating...what man would come to call "races".

* not a literalist in the strictest sense.
I believe the Bible is full of analogies, hyperboles, parables, and symbolisms.



I, too, appreciate the bravery of jumping in here.

But it doesn't work. Adam and Eve having all of that genetic material ( whofarted ) would not result in the racial differences that we see in the world. Unless God did a WHOLE lot of fiddling, in which case, why bother giving the little buggers all of the DNA in the first place?

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

I'm neither a geneticist nor a Bible literalist, but this isn't impossible at all.

Even at a hypothetical extreme, a single sub-Saharan African woman today has sufficient genetic information to produce just about any human phenotype presently walking the earth in several short generations given certain breeding. We see it all the time in animal husbandry.

As it were, we're talking 11 generations between Adam and Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Japhet -- and we're talking virtually countless generations between those three progenitors and the people who now populate the planet. Very distinct variety can arise in only a fraction of that time... and I haven't even mentioned the effects of migration and environment in triggering certain genes.
Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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Reply #19 posted 04/27/06 1:06pm

cborgman

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Lammastide said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:




I, too, appreciate the bravery of jumping in here.

But it doesn't work. Adam and Eve having all of that genetic material ( whofarted ) would not result in the racial differences that we see in the world. Unless God did a WHOLE lot of fiddling, in which case, why bother giving the little buggers all of the DNA in the first place?

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

I'm neither a geneticist nor a Bible literalist, but this isn't impossible at all.

Even at a hypothetical extreme, a single sub-Saharan African woman today has sufficient genetic information to produce just about any human phenotype presently walking the earth in several short generations given certain breeding. We see it all the time in animal husbandry.

As it were, we're talking 11 generations between Adam and Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Japhet -- and we're talking virtually countless generations between those three progenitors and the people who now populate the planet. Very distinct variety can arise in only a fraction of that time... and I haven't even mentioned the effects of migration and environment in triggering certain genes.


so how would you get two black parents with an asian baby?
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #20 posted 04/27/06 1:21pm

HiinEnkelte

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cborgman said:

Lammastide said:


I'm neither a geneticist nor a Bible literalist, but this isn't impossible at all.

Even at a hypothetical extreme, a single sub-Saharan African woman today has sufficient genetic information to produce just about any human phenotype presently walking the earth in several short generations given certain breeding. We see it all the time in animal husbandry.

As it were, we're talking 11 generations between Adam and Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Japhet -- and we're talking virtually countless generations between those three progenitors and the people who now populate the planet. Very distinct variety can arise in only a fraction of that time... and I haven't even mentioned the effects of migration and environment in triggering certain genes.


so how would you get two black parents with an asian baby?


the baby simply grows up and identifies as asian, that's how.
Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation.

Chains We Can Bereave In

LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY
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Reply #21 posted 04/27/06 1:22pm

Lammastide

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cborgman said:

Lammastide said:


I'm neither a geneticist nor a Bible literalist, but this isn't impossible at all.

Even at a hypothetical extreme, a single sub-Saharan African woman today has sufficient genetic information to produce just about any human phenotype presently walking the earth in several short generations given certain breeding. We see it all the time in animal husbandry.

As it were, we're talking 11 generations between Adam and Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Japhet -- and we're talking virtually countless generations between those three progenitors and the people who now populate the planet. Very distinct variety can arise in only a fraction of that time... and I haven't even mentioned the effects of migration and environment in triggering certain genes.


so how would you get two black parents with an asian baby?

First, Chris, you have to realize no one's talking about such a pronounced first-to-second generation jump. I could totally breed successively lighter children with successively shorter, more squat bodies, finer hair and hooded eyes. All the moreso if earlier on in this line, I migrated them from a sub-Tropical Africa to a somewhat more temperate, rugged Asia. Eventually, you will get what we might now call an "Asian" baby. Remember, racial categories are our invention -- little more than loose bench marks for human appearance. They actually mean nothing.

As an example, look at Prince's parents. And look at him! lol ...Now what if he had a kid with, say, dawn from Envogue. (Check out her eyes.)


Now what if that kid had a kid with... and so on.
Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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Reply #22 posted 04/27/06 1:22pm

cborgman

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HiinEnkelte said:

cborgman said:



so how would you get two black parents with an asian baby?


the baby simply grows up and identifies as asian, that's how.



you're kidding, i hope?
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #23 posted 04/27/06 1:30pm

HiinEnkelte

avatar

cborgman said:

HiinEnkelte said:



the baby simply grows up and identifies as asian, that's how.



you're kidding, i hope?


lol what's asian anyway, a 'race'? and who am i to tell someone he or she isn't the race he or she identifies with?

plus, i don't stereotype.


cool lol
Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation.

Chains We Can Bereave In

LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY
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Reply #24 posted 04/27/06 1:34pm

cborgman

avatar

Lammastide said:

cborgman said:



so how would you get two black parents with an asian baby?

First, Chris, you have to realize no one's talking about such a pronounced first-to-second generation jump. I could totally breed successively lighter children with successively shorter, more squat bodies, finer hair and hooded eyes. All the moreso if earlier on in this line, I migrated them from a sub-Tropical Africa to a somewhat more temperate, rugged Asia. Eventually, you will get what we might now call an "Asian" baby. Remember, racial categories are our invention -- little more than loose bench marks for human appearance. They actually mean nothing.

As an example, look at Prince's parents. And look at him! lol ...Now what if he had a kid with, say, dawn from Envogue. (Check out her eyes.)


Now what if that kid had a kid with... and so on.


interesting...
Being a real civil rights champion,
Sometimes I have to defend
against die-hard bullshit
and the fakes who propagate it.

"Yippee ki-yay, Motherfucker." - John McClane, Die Hard
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Reply #25 posted 04/27/06 1:34pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HiinEnkelte said:

cborgman said:




you're kidding, i hope?


lol what's asian anyway, a 'race'? and who am i to tell someone he or she isn't the race he or she identifies with?

plus, i don't stereotype.


cool lol

You are such a dick! lol
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #26 posted 04/27/06 1:36pm

Lammastide

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In a somewhat related vein, we might find some fascination among the octoroons and quadroons of the 19th and early 20th century American south.

There is a phenomenon of white southern families -- particularly Louisianans, as I understand -- who can definitively trace their roots back, say, 3 or 4 generations... and then suddenly no more! Here's why: On many plantations, the "finest" African female slaves were often bred successively lighter to the point where they could eventually "pass" for white. These "quadroons" (with 1/4 immediate African lineage) or "octoroons" (with 1/8 immediate African lineage) were then presented at annual balls as debutants to uppercrust Southern society to be often married off to wealthy white men either newly transplanted from Europe or, in fact, visiting and eventually returning to Europe. They were essentially pedigreed white woman!

I'll try to find a link.
[Edited 4/27/06 13:47pm]
Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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Reply #27 posted 04/27/06 1:37pm

HiinEnkelte

avatar

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HiinEnkelte said:



lol what's asian anyway, a 'race'? and who am i to tell someone he or she isn't the race he or she identifies with?

plus, i don't stereotype.


cool lol

You are such a dick! lol


nothing wrong with those! lol
Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation.

Chains We Can Bereave In

LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY
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Reply #28 posted 04/27/06 1:38pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

avatar

Lammastide said:

In a somewhat related vein, we might find some fascination among the octoroons and quadroons of the 19th and early 20th century American south.

There is a phenomenon of white southern families -- particularly Louisianans, as I understand) who can definitively trace their roots back, say, 3 or 4 generations... and then it suddenly stops. Here's why: On many plantations, the "finest" African female slaves were often bred successively lighter to the point where they could eventually "pass" for white. These quadroons (with 1/4 African lineage) or octoroons (with 1/8 African lineage) were then presented at annual balls as debutants to uppercrust Southern society to be married off to wealthy men either newly transplanted from Europe, or, in fact, visiting and eventually returning to Europe. They were essentially pedigreed white woman!

I'll try to find a link.


How great tho that they were actually having relations with black women lol Fuckers.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #29 posted 04/27/06 1:44pm

Lammastide

avatar

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Lammastide said:

In a somewhat related vein, we might find some fascination among the octoroons and quadroons of the 19th and early 20th century American south.

There is a phenomenon of white southern families -- particularly Louisianans, as I understand) who can definitively trace their roots back, say, 3 or 4 generations... and then it suddenly stops. Here's why: On many plantations, the "finest" African female slaves were often bred successively lighter to the point where they could eventually "pass" for white. These quadroons (with 1/4 African lineage) or octoroons (with 1/8 African lineage) were then presented at annual balls as debutants to uppercrust Southern society to be married off to wealthy men either newly transplanted from Europe, or, in fact, visiting and eventually returning to Europe. They were essentially pedigreed white woman!

I'll try to find a link.


How great tho that they were actually having relations with black women lol Fuckers.

It was some pretty heinous stuff. disbelief But, for some black parents who had the "luxury" of forfeiting their daughters, it was the best way to ensure those girls... and their children and grandchildren (ad infinitum)... might enjoy a life of freedom and mobility.
Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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