I just started a new poll at the NPGMC U Tell Us forum - be sure to vote

Someone over there suggested that just 1% of NPGMC members have iPods - I think the number is MUCH higher than that. lets find out.

nope

i don't have an ipod. i may eventually get a dell digital jukebox (for half the cost of an ipod) though. i'm not real into the namebrand game. an ipod is expensive because its the 'hip' thing to have right now. the marketing is brilliant, i must admit. everybody is being seen with one. it seems silly to me, though, to spend all that money on something i can get for half the price. i'd much rather use the extra money towards a couple nights out or some new clothes or music.

Cool -- the poll is in the "members connection" forum, BTW, for anyone who wants to vote. The poll was started in U Tell Us and then moved by the moderators.

Doozer said:

Yea - I know - my poll that was to give them more feedback on the issue was moved out of the U Tell Us forum. I sure hope they are paying attention, though - so far half of the responders without iPods say they are getting one.

i have three.

I have a 40GB iPod, the newest version with the touch-sensitive buttons.

It's within 1GB of being full.

I got my sister a 10GB version for Christmas.

i do! and LOVE IT

nope... too poor

I've had my 30GB for nearly a year now and there hasn't been a day I haven't used it. It's on when I walk, it's on in the car and it get's dropped into the entertainment center when I get home and feeds music through the big system. I'm never more than a few seconds away from any song I want to hear!
There was mention of the Dell Digital Jukebox being "half the price" of an iPod. True if you're considering the top of the line Jukebox vs. the top of the line iPod and taking advantage of Dell's current $50 off promotion which brings the price down to $249. However, the Jukebox is also half the capacity of the iPod - 20GB vs 40GB. Paying twice the price for twice the capacity seems fair to me. Plus, in the iPod, you get much nicer design and engineering.

kdavis said:

Still, if you comnpare the 20 GB Dell to the 20 GB Ipod. The Dell is still $150 cheaper.

SyrHyJynx said:

if you can afford it, jus get a dell dj. its the same thing but half the price. i have a friend who has it and she loves it! her husband has the ipod and she swears they are both the exact same thing...the only difference being the price. my guess is this is why apple made the mini...because they know there is no difference between ipod and dell dj.

Dell 20 GB Digital Juke box is $299, Apple 20 GB iPod is $399. SO the price difference is only $100, not $150. The iPod comes with the dock, the Dell doesn't, which is $40, so the price difference is only $60. Don't underestimate how convenient the dock is either. I don't even see anything like that as an option for the Dell.

the iPod supports firewire and usb 2.0. dell only supports usb 2.0
the iPod supports mac and windows, dell only supports windows
the iPod supports MP3 and AAC, both open standards, dell supports MP3 and proprietary WMA
the iPod uses the award winning touch wheel interface that offers continuous scrolling, the dell has moving parts that will wear out, and you can't continuously scroll. This is important when you're scrolling through 1000 songs looking for something in paticular
the iPod - 5.6 ozs, the Dellis 7.6 ozs
there is a 40 gig iPod, Dell is limited to 20 Gigs
the iPod is 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.62, the dell is 4.1 x 2.7 x .86
Apple innovates while Dell copies.
the iPod looks cool, the Dell looks clunky - buttons all over the place.
the iPod supports the iTunes Music store that has 70% market share, Dell has their own store that has negligible market share. How long can they run a music store that does no business?

Universaluv said:

It's cheaper in ways other than price.

But, for me at least, the iPod's size, style, flexibility, usability and reputation (of the device AND the company behind it) are well worth the price difference. The iPod's lack of WMA support isn't an issue for me as I can't ever see myself "buying" a WMA file ("buying" in quotes since, to my eyes and philosophy, WMA doesn't allow you to ever really own the files you pay for).

kdavis said:

I understand that you get a level of refinement for your $$. Frankly I have no use for either the Dell or the Ipod at the moment, so it's all theory to me.

But, since you're bringing up formats I really hate AAC, which really limits how much I use Itunes. Great sound, but my car plays MP3's. Sure I can convert the files, but then the sound degrades...

Oh and the problem with ownership is not necessarilly WMA files, so much as it is DRM.
[This message was edited Wed Mar 10 11:27:04 2004 by Universaluv]

Universaluv said:

that's why you need an iPod - to listen to music in your car. Even with your car playing MP3s, you can't cram as much music on a CD as you can on an iPod, and you can't organize a CD with multiple playlists. There are lots of ways to listen to an iPod on a car stereo.

I assume you're talking about AAC files from the iTunes store - iTunes itself lets you rip your CDs as either AAC or MP3. I reimported my CDs as AACs because they have better quality at lower bitrates (thus less disk space) than MP3s. Of course I still have MP3s too, like the NPGMC year 1 files. Now all of my music is on the iPod as is a backup of my files on my hard disk.
[This message was edited Wed Mar 10 11:30:08 2004 by alandail]
[This message was edited Wed Mar 10 11:31:11 2004 by alandail]

alandail said:

There's just something about a program like Itunes that only links to one companies mp3 player that just leaves a bad tastes in my mouth. kinda reminiscent of how another notorious software company does business...

However, that 20GB Rio Karma looks very nice...
[This message was edited Wed Mar 10 12:01:03 2004 by Universaluv]

alandail said:

actually, the dell dj is suggested at $299 but in actuality, once you apply the instant rebate of $50 the price becomes $249. if you want the dock, it is an option but not a necessary charge for the budget conscious. if one buys a dell dj, chances are they do not have an apple...therefore the fact that dell only supports windows is irrelevant. believe me, parts of ipo will wear out as well. that is the nature of the business...temporal lasting abilities so you buy the next thing down the line. the size differences are so minimal that when you are talking about a $150 dollar price difference, it becomes not so important. i suppose enjoying each style is pretty subjective...wouldn't you say? either one looks pretty ugly to me but that is just my opinion. i don't buy singles or records from itunes (or anywhere else). i pay the artist. i would like to put all my current music onto a dj or an ipod, so they would both work fine for me and people who are in the same boat.

the bottom line is that dell offers a more affordable product that, all in all, performs the same function. not everyone has an extra $150 to throw down...choices are good...don't you think? i mean i could go out and buy diesel jeans or gucci corduroys but why bother when levi's has them for 1/4 or 1/8 of the price? my ass is still gonna look good in either pair. these little machines are the same thing...minus my ass, of course. however, some people follow the trends like buoys in water...i suppose its he same as reading the wall street journal or the new york times. how you want people to see you becomes the focal point.

i just want the music.

SassyBritches said:

why buy Levi's when the kmart brand is 1/3 the cost of that? Some people think the better design, the better engineering, the attention to detail, and the innovation is worth it. Others buy knock offs and get the quality they pay for.

alandail said:

geez, you sure are defensive of this product. you must have stock in the company, lol. do you have a dj? have you used one on a regular basis? i don't own either but i have used a dell dj and it was pretty cool. it did the same thing as my old roomates ipod. if they were both the same price, i honestly don't know what one i'd get.

oh, and kmart jeans don't fit me right...otherwise i'd probably buy them too! and that's an awfully elitist attitude you've got there. hopefully, no one who can't afford to splurge on items more expensive than kmart's prices won't be offended.

SassyBritches said:

Your the one who set the bar at Levi's - I actually buy the cheaper jeans myself - I see no reason to spend the extra money on a label. I will spend the extra money for better design, better engineering, attention to detail. I just don't like rip off products that don't get the details right. For example, Microsoft has been copying the Macintosh OS for 20 years now. In all of that time, they have yet to figure out that when you are typing text, it is helpful to obscure the mouse cursor once typing begins.

You click on a text box and start typing on windows, and your mouse pointer is on top of your text, making the text hard to read when you get there. The mac, since day 1, hides the mouse as soon as you start typing, and it reappears as soon as it's moved. Rip off products that don't understand the gestalt of what they are ripping off get all of these little details wrong. There's no real R&D team and no vision or drive to get it right - it's slap something together and get it out quick to get some market share.

alandail said:

so...have you used a dell dj or not? i'm just curious if your preference is based on experience with the dj or just because you like mac products. just for the record...my boyfriend has an imac while i have a dell...i use both. i like mine better but only because i'm used to it. i find it easier to use. whatever...its all relative. i guess we can stop bickering now, lol. sorry for riling your feathers.

SassyBritches said:

No - I've never used a Dell DJ. But after using the iPod and it's touch wheel, I can't even imagine trying to use that little scroll button to scroll through my 388 and growing collection of 5 start songs to find a specific song. It's a snap to do with the iPod touch wheel.

alandail said:

i really do love that it sounds like an ad for ipod...heehee. so what you're saying, basically, is that i should get an ipod if i buy either one? cool. i'll keep that in mind.

alandail said:

Uuuuh, welcome to this stupid MAC vs. WINDOWS discussion. It's always the same...these 5% MAC users think they've discovered the whole world and their system is the one and only - simply the best. Stupid, stupid...

Every individual has to decide by itself what's the best system for themselves. What fits to you doesn't mean it fits to every one else. You like the iPods Design ? I fu**ing hate it, cuz THIS IS A RIP OFF. Look at products from the german brand BRAUN from the late 70's. The iPods Design is nothing new. It's new to MP3 players, but that's it.

I own PCs since Windows 3.11, I'm using a MAC for over 5 years now on a daily basis at work. I know all the OS'es from 7 to X in good detail, so I know what I'm talking about, and believe me, OS X is the closest RIP OFF to a large number of functionality and usability from WINDOWS I've ever seen. I'm lucky every single evening when I get home and turn on my PC, cuz I can do a thousand things much quicker, easier, cheaper with it than with any MAC. And don't tell me the PC is so much less stable than a MAC. That's a fairy tale of the MAC community. Be honest: how often do you restart your MAC(-application) a day caused by a system or an application error? If you're really using it, you'll agree it's more than one time...

Certainly Apple is full of innovation, without further discussion, and I'm fine working with the MAC, but your arguments seem to miss basic knowledge.

You love your iPod. Fine, but unless you're paid by Apple for your advertising here, don't tell nonsense. There're a lot of MP3 players on the market that fit a 100% to the needs of nearly most users. The iPod is an overpriced luxury product for MAC users who get spots in their faces when having a Microsoft product around and for people with big purses.

Peace,
charly1310
[This message was edited Thu Mar 11 16:19:17 2004 by charly1310]
[This message was edited Thu Mar 11 17:09:50 2004 by charly1310]

charly1310 said:

good point.

I use both.
MAC fits me.

took a little getting used to without the "right click" option that varies on windoze programs, but at the end of the day, most of my productiveness is on the MAC.

But that's my job. Video editing. Print quality graphics, etc...


ipod?
I dunno. When the need comes, I'll probably get one. Right now, there hasn't been a need for one. i-tunes is deffinately the bomb

can't you tell? i have 44,000 mp3s too.

charly1310 said:

umm - I happen to program both for a living. I've been using personal computers since before Microsoft bought their first operating system. I've been using and programming Macs since 1984. I've had to do the same for windows since windows 3.1 - it took Microsoft 3.1 tries to come up with something anyone would use. It took 3.1 tries for them to even figure out how to do overlapping windows. For years, every time they released a new OS, it was hyped by Microsoft as "being more Mac like". Now you somehow think OS X is a copy of windows? Learn your computer history. OS X is a merging of MacOS and NeXT. The things you say came from windows actually came from NeXT. Microsoft copies everyone.

As for crashing - Microsoft's on stats tell you how much their OS crashes. Here's a quote from last year:
"Mr. Gates acknowledged today that the company's error reporting service indicated that 5 percent of all Windows-based computers now crash more than twice each day."

When have you ever seen OS X crash? Occasionally an application will crash as applications have bugs, but it never takes down the whole OS, never kills any other applications.

There are zero viruses for OS X. Why is that? It's 100% because of this Microsoft quote - again from last year:

"... Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine - Microsoft senior v.p., Windows development.

Who has time for crashing and viruses?

You know what project I'm working on right now for our app - an autosave feature - to protect windows users from losing data on system crashes. We don't have to do that for our Mac customers.

alandail said:

I just recently read otherwise.
I lost the link. I'll try to find it again.
But there was a virus study site that showed that 5% of the known viruses can infect the mac.

However, it wasn't clear if they targeted certain programs like microsoft office that may share the same code on both platforms or the actual OS?

although 5% is pretty small compared to all the ones out there.
I must get 20 a day in my e-mail. Doesn't affect my MAC though!