jessyMD32781 said:

I still have to see that film. We speak a lot about "bugchasers" at my work. "The Gift" has been referenced numerous times. I really want to see it, but it may make me want to throw things, so I haven't yet...




....edit....
[This message was edited Mon Mar 8 6:40:55 2004 by endorphin74]

endorphin74 said:

yeah, i think that it might make me cry but at he same time it would be good to see.

gemini13 said:

...well,
im NOT about casual sex anyway, so i have no worries about WHAT IF's???...im not at any "high risk" (nor do i think im immune to this virus) im just saying my personal preference about having sex, is it should be experienced in an honorable situation, (marriage, vowed with honesty, and commitment) then you dont have to have as much worries...this question is more of a personal decision rather than ah popular vote...
educating people about high risk is very important, because one night of "i thought i loved them" could turn into "i HATE i know them"...its too late then, its irriversable!!!
thats just how i keep my nose clean!

...good thread!

So for you folks who wouldn't sleep with someone you know is HIV+, it's okay to sleep with someone who might be positive but would either lie or not divulge their status to you, but it's not okay for someone to be forthcoming and responsible about their status? Why do I have a big problem with this?

Everyone is potentially HIV+. EVERYONE. And folks who are positive aren't lepers. They have every bit as much of an opportunity to be healthy as anyone else, especially in this day and age.

Underneath it all, we're still talking about people. People with emotions and people who can love and people who don't want to be shut out. And in the case of people who are open about their HIV status, people who are HONEST and care about the people they have relations with.

I'm not really sure where to go with the rest of this post, but the tone of some folks on here really kinda upsets me. I'm not saying that to be self-righteous or haughty - I kinda understand the mentality and it's based on fear and perserverence - but it's still uncool to me. Maybe because I've been in a relationship with someone who's HIV+ in the past, maybe because I have people in my life who are positive and I care about then and don't see them as "different" than me or anyone else. Maybe because when I read stuff that makes poz people come off sounding like the village leper, I think of these beautiful vibrant men I know and have known, and I just want to shout HOW FUCKING DARE YOU to some of you folks. I know that's irrational, but oh freakin' well.

Anxiety said:

What i'm getting from many of the posts here is that people won't have a one night stand with someone who was HIV positive and would try to work out something in the case of a long term and loving relationship.

Personally, I think that one night stands and casual sex are not the best idea so having a one night stand with anyone, HIV+ or not, is out of the question. Perhaps it's not so much that the people on this thread think that HIV+ people are lepers but it's more that they aren't going to put themselves at risk to get the virus. You can support people with HIV without sleeping with them and possibly cutting your own life short.

jessyMD32781 said:

Every time you sleep with anyone you're putting yourself at risk. Why should it make a difference that someone is honest enough to divulge their status? There are ways to have fun sexually that don't involve high-risk behavior. There's virtually no such thing as risk-free sex, but there IS such a think as safer sex. And if you're THAT worried about infection and THAT afraid of HIV+ folks, I think you make a good point Jessy - you shouldn't be having casual sex, period. Someone who's open about their HIV status and someone who is in denial or lies about their status have one damn thing in common, and it doesn't know from lies or truth.

Anxiety said:

agree w/all....especially the bolded bit. i can't possibly imagine what it must feel like to be HIV+...and i've never been made aware that someone i've been in contact with was HIV+, but if I did, it wouldn't change my feelings about them one bit. that i can be sure of. one-night stands aside, if you love someone, you love them and everything that comes along with them.

As a matter of fact I did sleep with my friend who was HIV+. He was dying so I held him..

Did I have sex with him no. Who can really say what one would do until they are in that type of situation..

summerdawn said:

Ya know?

Anxiety said:

well said. I do agree with what you've said and I don't believe that people with HIV should be separated out from society but when it comes down to it, it is a matter of life and death. Because of that, I don't blame people for not wanting to have sexual contact with an HIV+ person. I would blame people for not wanting to have anything to do with an HIV+ person, though. that's just ignorance.

I guess what it kinda comes down to, is that we have to assume that the people who say "NO F-ING WAY!" do not have sex outside of long-term committed relationships, make sure their partner is tested and actually see proof of the outcome. Which I guess is fine. I just don't know many people who do that.

Anxiety said:

true, that. i guess it would depend on the person

XxAxX said:

It should depend on the person anyway, shouldn't it?

Anxiety said:

well, i agree. but not everyone holds that view

CarrieMpls said:

I do that.

Even in my 'wilder days' I was never the type to sleep around, and the few sexual partners I have had (excecpt for one when I was 20), I have made take HIV tests (I took the test each time too) before I would have sex with them. We went to the testing facility together and when we got the results back we showed each other our results.

Maybe some people who take sex less seriously than I do, or who are more of a risk taker than I would think this was extreme behavior, but I have one life and with everything to consider in this day and age regarding sexually transmitted diseases, I'm not going to jeopardize my life or health for meaningless sex with someone I don't know, or that I don't really care about or who doesn't care about me.

I myself had an HIV scare as a result of being sexually active with that ONE person whom I did not ask to get tested before sex and I will never, ever go through that ordeal again. It was NOT worth it. That incident really woke me up to weighing casual sex with someone who might not be in my life a year from now vs. possibly contracting an illness that could take my life and/or cause unimaginable suffering and life altering repercussions. By the way, that person and I did use condoms but the fact is they don't *always* work -- and if you discover that you had sex with someone carrying the virus, and even if you *did* use a condom and did everything as 'safely' as you possibly could, the idea that you COULD HAVE POSSIBLY contracted HIV is an overwhelming prospect. I have also had close friends go through similiar situations and I've seen their anguish as they waited to find out their test own results - and not just for HIV test results, either. I"m including other life altering STDs as well - and I refuse to ever put myself in that place again.

If someone refuses to take an HIV test then I figure they are not worth my giving something as special as MY BODY to, and I will wait for someone who values me as a WHOLE person, not just as a convenient HOLE, if you get my drift.

I however am NOT someone who thinks that an HIV+ individual is a "leper" or someone to avoid all contact or relationships with. That is ignorant and cruel thinking and I don't want to be misunderstood in that regard. I merely advocate the safEST sex possible, taking precautions to protect the ONE LIFE YOU HAVE, and I don't believe in casual sex that might endanger that life. Others might disagree with me on that and that's OK.

If I were to fall in love with an HIV+ person then I would have to deal with a lot of issues that I feel myself, and that person, would deal with *together*.

On one last note, if **I** myself were to discover that I had contracted HIV, I don't know that I could do anything to endanger the health of someone I loved by possibly putting that person in the position to contract the disease. No matter how safe or careful people are, the virus can be transmitted and if I were to be the cause of someone I loved to become ill with such a terrible disease, well I don't knwo that I could handle that.

When I worked at Planned Parenthood, there was a really great activity we'd do with groups of people during our HIV/AIDS education segment. It was intended to point out to those people who say, "OMG, what sort of person would risk their LIFE for sex?!" how we ALL take potentially life-threatening health risks everyday. It was also a good exercise for helping people have compassion for those who are HIV +.

We'd start out having everyone in the room stand up, and then we'd read off a list of "behaviors", such as wearing a seatbelt in the car EVERYTIME, eating healthfully, going to the doctor regularly, flossing your teeth everyday, smoking, doing drugs/drinking alcohol to excess, etc. etc.. If a person had NOT done the healthy behavior within a certain timeframe (I can't remember if it was 1 or 6 or 12 months), they'd have to sit down. At the end, we'd look around to see who was left standing--it was usually 1 or 2 people in the room.

It's those types of things--not wearing our seatbelts, not eating healthfully, smoking, drugs/drinking that are more likely to kill us. And most of us take these life-threatening risks everyday, and think "oh, it won't happen to ME".
[This message was edited Mon Mar 8 17:03:22 2004 by AnotherLoverToo]



pze said:

I commend you for taking such good care of your emotional and physical well-being. It sounds like you know what you want, what sex means for you, and you stick with what keeps you happy and healthy. That's awesome.

But like I stated, most of the people I know (and myself included) have sex with people they aren't in a committed long-term relationship with. Yes, we obviously look at sex differently than you. But that's fine. To each their own. But once you throw that into the mix, you have to assume everyone is +. As Anxiety stated, it's just safer that way. But many people don't. And that's why it keeps spreading. I'd love to believe that every new case of HIV is spread between 2 people who were honest in their status, who knew the risks, were extremely careful and there was a failure somewhere. Heck, I'd love for no one to ever be infected again! But that's just not the case.

And I guess it's just that when people say "no way! I would never have sex with an HIV+ person," my first thought is "How do you know you haven't already?" Obviously, this doesn't pertain to you specifically. But I feel you are in the minority.

Recognize that there is more to sex than intercourse. Would I have intercourse with an HIV+ person? Hell no. Not only out of concern for my health, but out of concern for the health of my other partners. Rubbers break, people.

Would I have sex, by a broader definition, with an HIV+ person? Sure. There are lots of ways to have fun and intimacy in bed, and many of them are low-risk.

CarrieMpls said:

Yep I'm definitely in a minority, I know. I've had many people over the course of my sexually active years tell me that. I've caught a lot of flack and negative comments about my attitudes/stance, especially back in my early 20s when all my friends and everybody was at their most sexually active (and maybe I was, and am, too "careful" regarding sex, I don't know). But being so careful has prevented me from ever having to contend with unwanted pregnancy and all the implications involved with that, abortions, genital warts, herpes, any other STD, or feeling used for sex and for that much I am grateful.

I agree with you about wishing no one would ever be infected again. I wish people would realize just how much of an impact on a life and future that one night of sex or of not using a condom can potentially be, and at least take the effort to be as SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

I guess that's why I've never understood the mentality of those who *don't* place more importance and meaning on sex and what having 'unsafe' sex or many many partners can result in, but again, that's just how I am and I'm not saying everyone should think and be like me. I don't mean to come across as holier-than-thou or anything towards folks who don't share my viewpoints on sex and I apologize if I sound that way..it's just I have a hard time understanding how anyone can't NOT do whatever they can to try to protect their health adn future as much as possible.

PrimordialOoze said:

i'm with you. sex can be dangerous both physically and emotionally and it's sad that more people don't realize that. i've also gotten alot of flack for being careful about who i sleep with. the way i see it, i'm too much of a treasure to be passed around.

jessyMD32781 said:

you are cute!

endorphin74 said:

so are you babes.

AnotherLoverToo said:

THANK YOU FOR THIS POST!

At my job, we don't use this game, but we do use these general talking points with new staff/volunteers to the agency to help them get a more complete perspective on HIV and the issues revolving around "risk" behaviors...

Let's face it we live in a world full of "risks," none of us know what is going to "get us" in the end. It's up to each individual to decide for themselves which "risks" they are going to take and when.

PrimordialOoze said:

From what I've seen this a very difficult issue for people who are HIV+. It often manifests in a very sad way, as people feel they are somehow unworthy of love since they are infected with HIV. In the end all, though, love is a POWERFUL force and can turn everything you think you'd think upside down when it happens.

I'm gonna use another car analogy here. Would you be scared to drive a partner around town in your car? Afraid that by chance you could cause or be in a car accident that would injure or kill them? I doubt it. The risk is there, but it is low. With proper, safe driving and the use of seatbelts, you can control the risk as much as possible, but you can't guarantee an accident won't occur. So you realistically assess the risks and get in the car and drive.

Remember, just because a condom breaks during sex when one of the parties is positive, it doesn't automatically guarantee that HIV transmission will occur. Transmission is actually quite rare. Think about it, if every unsafe sexual contact involving HIV resulted in HIV transmission, we would almost ALL be infected. End of story. I'm not trying to negate the risks involved, I'm just trying to put the risk into perspective.

jessyMD32781 said:

this is like asking "who in here likes to play russian roulette..?"


...

and to answer your question, not just no, but HELL NO...

EllisDee said:

But Ellis, what if your partner became infected through a blood transfusion or other means after you two were together?

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

i was answering the question as though it was someone that you just met...

if my wife got HIV from a blood transfusion, then yes...

but if i found out before i got to know and love someone, then no... or if someone caught it from being promiscuous or sharing needles, then no...

EllisDee said:

What would you do if your spouse had somehow gotten infected, and didn't tell you because she knew about your "HELL NO" attitude?