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Raging Bull (1980) - First best film for the 80s Raging Bull" is also based on a true story about Jake La Motta (Robert De Niro), a boxer from the late-1940s and the early-1950s who basically destroys himself and those around him because of a bad temper and poor decision making. Joe Pesci is amazing in his supporting role as Joey, Jake's brother. Same with Cathy Moriarty as Vicki, Jake's wife. I'm so glad that Robert De Niro won his first Oscar for Best Actor in this movie. Scorsese's direction is ingenious, and in my opinion, "Raging Bull" is the best directed film for the 80s. How he lost the Oscar to Robert Redford for "Ordinary People" still puzzles me to this day. Like i mentioned in my commentary for Goodfellas the team of Scorsese and DeNiro made great films together. Scorsese shaped this film and made it his own through symbolism. The title signifies an uncontrollable rage inside the ring, which spills over into LaMotta's personal life, alienating those closest to him. The boxing arena only serves as a background for in-depth character development. The real engine that drives the movie is his jealous obsession with his wife, and fear of her sexuality. The use of fog, fluids, and LaMotta's refusal to fall in the ring expose his character, and his ultimate downfall.Scorsese introduces the fog motif in the very first shot of the film. The viewer has an objective perspective of the fog that surrounds LaMotta in his career and in his mind. When LaMotta is in the ring, the crowds are obliterated, and the only sign of them is when flashbulbs go off. When he is in the sauna sweating off the necessary four pounds, he is again surrounded by fog. The fog associated with his boxing career symbolically and visually establishes LaMotta as a very isolated individual, who does not have a grasp on reality or relate to people well. He leads an egocentric life based on his own thoughts and suspicions. His judgment becomes clouded by his paranoid fears that his wife is sleeping with other men, until he eventually believes that his brother has slept with her. In the last fight scene when he loses his middleweight title, the crowd is no longer clouded. When the judges and his wife are splattered with LaMotta's blood, the camera is in very sharp focus. This scene is followed very quickly with LaMotta's retirement as an overweight loser, the loss of his wife and children and his jail time. The fog has similarly cleared in his mind as he realizes his mistakes. He screams, `Why? Why? Why?' in his jail cell, and later apologizes to his brother, admitting that he was a bum. Scorsese links the end if the film to the beginning as LaMotta smokes a cigar and self-induced fog covers his face. He knows his downfall was his own doing.
The use of fluids also links LaMotta's experience in the boxing ring to his fear of his wife's sexuality. Close ups of sweat pouring off his face emphasizes physical exertions as a substitute for sexual relations, as Vickie constantly complains that he is too busy fighting to have sex with her. The first time he sees Vickie in the pool, she is linked to a large body of pure water. After their first sexual encounter, he calms himself down with ice water. Gradually, the fluid symbol begins to transform. After he loses his first fight with Sugar Ray, the water in the bucket, with a close up of his fist, signifies his increasing anger and rage. About that time, he starts to suspect Vickie of having sex with other men. The water squeezed on him in between rounds no longer purifies him physically or symbolically, because he is becoming mentally disturbed. The water sponged on him in his last fight with Sugar Ray, at the beginning of his decline, is red from blood. He is tainted by his obsession, as is his wife when she is sprayed with his blood. Scorsese again links the elder LaMotta with his youthful boxing self by having him drink water before he goes out to recite. He is symbolically pure now that he knows his past mistakes. To LaMotta, the true sign of a man is his ability to remain standing. Scorsese consistently shows weakness lying or sitting down, and strength, power and control standing up. LaMotta stands to have his brother Joey punch him in the face. He refuses to fall when the mob tells him he has to take a fall. He knocks Sugar Ray down twice, and prides himself even after he loses the middleweight crown that Ray never knocked him down. However, while he sits in between the rounds, his brother/manager yells at him. When he sits down after the lost match with Sugar Ray, he cries, showing his weakness. He is sitting when he hangs up the phone on his brother without apologizing, and when he is in the jail cell at the time of his ultimate downfall, having lost his title and his belt in order to post bail. This pattern of domination and control only while standing extends outside of the ring to LaMotta's relationship with Vickie. He stands behind his wife, pulling her hair or slapping her. He dominates her with violence the way he would in the ring, but he is powerless on his back or sitting, demonstrating his fear of sexuality. He has to stand up to regain some control after their first encounter laying on his back, saying `What are you doing to me?' He knows that she has the real control. The first time LaMotta sees Vickie, she towers over him on the other side of the fence. She dwarfs him sitting on his lap. Scorsese shoots her going up stairs or in extreme close ups and LaMotta farther away so he seems smaller than she does. Since he feels so inferior, he resorts to violence to feel that he has control over her. Because he refused to fall in the ring, LaMotta was bound to fall outside of the ring. Fall he did, and he became a sad, pathetic, broke, lonely, overweight man. De Niro is amazing – the method stuff alone is great, but his whole performance is intense. DeNiro puts all of his juices in this performance. He gained 40 pounds to portray the obese has-been LaMotta. But if gaining and losing pounds was a sure-bet for a great performance, every actor in Hollywood would carry an Oscar. DeNiro involves himself completely in the role. You never see DeNiro on screen; you see LaMotta. In one scene, LaMotta recites the famous `I coulda been a contender, I coulda been someone' from On The Waterfront. It's easy to say that this is just DeNiro doing Brando, but as Roger Ebert pointed out, `it's DeNiro doing LaMotta doing Brando doing Terry Malloy.' Even though DeNiro isn't the first to use method acting, he is one of the few who have mastered it perfectly. "I can still hear those cheers, they still ring in my ears and for years they remain in my thoughts. 'Cause on time I took of my robe and, oops, I forgot to where shorts... I recall every punch, every hook, every jab, the worst way a guy can get rid of his flab... As you know my life wasn't fab... And though... And though I'd rather hear you cheer as I delve into Shakespeare "A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse" but I ain't had a winner in six months. And though I'm no Olivier, if it was him he would say that the thing ain't ring, the thing is the play. So give me a stage, where this bull here can rage, and though I can fight I'd much rather recite: That's Entertainment. ... that's entertainment"...  | |
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so, um... are we allowed to create 5 threads a day now?  "oPS i HITTED THE CAPDLOCK" | |
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I remember seeing Ragin Bull at the movie show as a kid. He beat the shit outta Joe Pesci and I love when he got old and fat and pathetic..DeNiro is a hell of an acotr...he was Brando for a bit "Climb in my fur." | |
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rdhull said: I remember seeing Ragin Bull at the movie show as a kid. He beat the shit outta Joe Pesci and I love when he got old and fat and pathetic..DeNiro is a hell of an acotr...he was Brando for a bit ...
Thats Entertainment... | |
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Raging Bull is in my top 10 greatest of all times.A poignant examination of the cost of obsession and self destruction.
I'v yet to seen a film that's come close to being as psychologically brutal. "Pam...that's just stupid." | |
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I never watched it. Too much violence beating up the wifey. Rather watch Sylvester Stalone in Rocky. 
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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luv4u said: I never watched it. Too much violence beating up the wifey. Rather watch Sylvester Stalone in Rocky.
Hey luv."Rocky" is another favorite ,but these are 2 completly diffrent stories.You just can't compare em.In many ways "Raging Bull" is the flip side of "Rocky". "Pam...that's just stupid." | |
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silentflute said: luv4u said: I never watched it. Too much violence beating up the wifey. Rather watch Sylvester Stalone in Rocky.
Hey luv."Rocky" is another favorite ,but these are 2 completly diffrent stories.You just can't compare em.In many ways "Raging Bull" is the flip side of "Rocky". True 
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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holymoses54 said: Raging Bull" is also based on a true story about Jake La Motta (Robert De Niro), a boxer from the late-1940s and the early-1950s who basically destroys himself and those around him because of a bad temper and poor decision making. Joe Pesci is amazing in his supporting role as Joey, Jake's brother. Same with Cathy Moriarty as Vicki, Jake's wife. I'm so glad that Robert De Niro won his first Oscar for Best Actor in this movie. Scorsese's direction is ingenious, and in my opinion, "Raging Bull" is the best directed film for the 80s. How he lost the Oscar to Robert Redford for "Ordinary People" still puzzles me to this day. Like i mentioned in my commentary for Goodfellas the team of Scorsese and DeNiro made great films together. Scorsese shaped this film and made it his own through symbolism. The title signifies an uncontrollable rage inside the ring, which spills over into LaMotta's personal life, alienating those closest to him. The boxing arena only serves as a background for in-depth character development. The real engine that drives the movie is his jealous obsession with his wife, and fear of her sexuality. The use of fog, fluids, and LaMotta's refusal to fall in the ring expose his character, and his ultimate downfall.Scorsese introduces the fog motif in the very first shot of the film. The viewer has an objective perspective of the fog that surrounds LaMotta in his career and in his mind. When LaMotta is in the ring, the crowds are obliterated, and the only sign of them is when flashbulbs go off. When he is in the sauna sweating off the necessary four pounds, he is again surrounded by fog. The fog associated with his boxing career symbolically and visually establishes LaMotta as a very isolated individual, who does not have a grasp on reality or relate to people well. He leads an egocentric life based on his own thoughts and suspicions. His judgment becomes clouded by his paranoid fears that his wife is sleeping with other men, until he eventually believes that his brother has slept with her. In the last fight scene when he loses his middleweight title, the crowd is no longer clouded. When the judges and his wife are splattered with LaMotta's blood, the camera is in very sharp focus. This scene is followed very quickly with LaMotta's retirement as an overweight loser, the loss of his wife and children and his jail time. The fog has similarly cleared in his mind as he realizes his mistakes. He screams, `Why? Why? Why?' in his jail cell, and later apologizes to his brother, admitting that he was a bum. Scorsese links the end if the film to the beginning as LaMotta smokes a cigar and self-induced fog covers his face. He knows his downfall was his own doing.
The use of fluids also links LaMotta's experience in the boxing ring to his fear of his wife's sexuality. Close ups of sweat pouring off his face emphasizes physical exertions as a substitute for sexual relations, as Vickie constantly complains that he is too busy fighting to have sex with her. The first time he sees Vickie in the pool, she is linked to a large body of pure water. After their first sexual encounter, he calms himself down with ice water. Gradually, the fluid symbol begins to transform. After he loses his first fight with Sugar Ray, the water in the bucket, with a close up of his fist, signifies his increasing anger and rage. About that time, he starts to suspect Vickie of having sex with other men. The water squeezed on him in between rounds no longer purifies him physically or symbolically, because he is becoming mentally disturbed. The water sponged on him in his last fight with Sugar Ray, at the beginning of his decline, is red from blood. He is tainted by his obsession, as is his wife when she is sprayed with his blood. Scorsese again links the elder LaMotta with his youthful boxing self by having him drink water before he goes out to recite. He is symbolically pure now that he knows his past mistakes. To LaMotta, the true sign of a man is his ability to remain standing. Scorsese consistently shows weakness lying or sitting down, and strength, power and control standing up. LaMotta stands to have his brother Joey punch him in the face. He refuses to fall when the mob tells him he has to take a fall. He knocks Sugar Ray down twice, and prides himself even after he loses the middleweight crown that Ray never knocked him down. However, while he sits in between the rounds, his brother/manager yells at him. When he sits down after the lost match with Sugar Ray, he cries, showing his weakness. He is sitting when he hangs up the phone on his brother without apologizing, and when he is in the jail cell at the time of his ultimate downfall, having lost his title and his belt in order to post bail. This pattern of domination and control only while standing extends outside of the ring to LaMotta's relationship with Vickie. He stands behind his wife, pulling her hair or slapping her. He dominates her with violence the way he would in the ring, but he is powerless on his back or sitting, demonstrating his fear of sexuality. He has to stand up to regain some control after their first encounter laying on his back, saying `What are you doing to me?' He knows that she has the real control. The first time LaMotta sees Vickie, she towers over him on the other side of the fence. She dwarfs him sitting on his lap. Scorsese shoots her going up stairs or in extreme close ups and LaMotta farther away so he seems smaller than she does. Since he feels so inferior, he resorts to violence to feel that he has control over her. Because he refused to fall in the ring, LaMotta was bound to fall outside of the ring. Fall he did, and he became a sad, pathetic, broke, lonely, overweight man. De Niro is amazing – the method stuff alone is great, but his whole performance is intense. DeNiro puts all of his juices in this performance. He gained 40 pounds to portray the obese has-been LaMotta. But if gaining and losing pounds was a sure-bet for a great performance, every actor in Hollywood would carry an Oscar. DeNiro involves himself completely in the role. You never see DeNiro on screen; you see LaMotta. In one scene, LaMotta recites the famous `I coulda been a contender, I coulda been someone' from On The Waterfront. It's easy to say that this is just DeNiro doing Brando, but as Roger Ebert pointed out, `it's DeNiro doing LaMotta doing Brando doing Terry Malloy.' Even though DeNiro isn't the first to use method acting, he is one of the few who have mastered it perfectly. "I can still hear those cheers, they still ring in my ears and for years they remain in my thoughts. 'Cause on time I took of my robe and, oops, I forgot to where shorts... I recall every punch, every hook, every jab, the worst way a guy can get rid of his flab... As you know my life wasn't fab... And though... And though I'd rather hear you cheer as I delve into Shakespeare "A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse" but I ain't had a winner in six months. And though I'm no Olivier, if it was him he would say that the thing ain't ring, the thing is the play. So give me a stage, where this bull here can rage, and though I can fight I'd much rather recite: That's Entertainment. ... that's entertainment"... | |
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How many takes did DeNiro pour that pitcher of cold ice water down his draws..? | |
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Savannah said: How many takes did DeNiro pour that pitcher of cold ice water down his draws..?
Why dont you try it...  | |
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holymoses54 said: Savannah said: How many takes did DeNiro pour that pitcher of cold ice water down his draws..?
Why dont you try it... | |
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Anyone for Monopoly? | |
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angelfishseven said: Anyone for Monopoly?
Fergeddaboudid!!! | |
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holymoses54 said: holymoses54 said: Savannah said: How many takes did DeNiro pour that pitcher of cold ice water down his draws..?
Why dont you try it... not for all the tea in china  | |
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ROCKY was the best boxing film of the 80's, Raging bull was bull shit Keenmeister |
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andykeen said: ROCKY was the best boxing film of the 80's, Raging bull was bull shit
You are full of Bull shit...Raging BullShit...       Here I am, you lucky people!
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Here I am, you lucky people!
I know a thing or two about a thing or two!! www.ymdb.com/user_top20_v...rsid=16838 | |
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PusherMan said: andykeen said: ROCKY was the best boxing film of the 80's, Raging bull was bull shit
You are full of Bull shit...Raging BullShit... ...And by the way i liked Rocky (1976)...but Rocky II (1979) was so so...and Rocky III (1982) sucked...Rocky IV (1985) was OK...and Rocky V (1990) was a disaster... Here I am, you lucky people!
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Both movies sure were better than ALI.. ugh..  what a bad movie. Coulda been Mo Betta! | |
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"I would like to thank Jake La Matta, and my parents for having me, and my grandparents for having them, and everyone else that this award means anything to, and like rest of the world. love everyone." - Robert De Niro Here I am, you lucky people!
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holymoses54 said: rdhull said: I remember seeing Ragin Bull at the movie show as a kid. He beat the shit outta Joe Pesci and I love when he got old and fat and pathetic..DeNiro is a hell of an acotr...he was Brando for a bit ...
Thats Entertainment... "He Ain't Pretty No More" | |
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It could have been called A Man and His Hormones, because this is a movie about nurture being ko'd by nature and how a man can possibly redeem himself from that. Instincts and animal brute force are his ticket to the American Dream, but of course they destroy everything in their path or almost. What makes this movie truly great is that the whole process doesn't completely destroy Jake's soul, and how in the end his soul is his only possession, despite the guy putting all his chips on his raw instincts.
I saw it with my father when it came out and I don't think we ever "got" a movie in unison like this before or since. | |
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andykeen said: ROCKY was the best boxing film of the 80's, Raging bull was bull shit
Rocky is not a bad movie at all, but it's not on the level of Raging Bull. It's a great Cinderfella with boxing gloves kind of movie that's inspiring and that pulls the audience's strings very skillfully, but it doesn't scratch the surface much in terms of boxing as a way to achieve the damn "Dream". | |
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Well, that's a matter of taste - what kind of movies ya like - isn't it. For me, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back was the first best film for the 80's.    FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION!
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scififilmnerd said: Well, that's a matter of taste - what kind of movies ya like - isn't it. For me, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back was the first best film for the 80's.
All i can say to you is you are you say you are a Sci Fi Film Nerd...I would definately put the Nerd in emphasis... Here I am, you lucky people!
I know a thing or two about a thing or two!! www.ymdb.com/user_top20_v...rsid=16838 | |
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Aerogram said: andykeen said: ROCKY was the best boxing film of the 80's, Raging bull was bull shit
Rocky is not a bad movie at all, but it's not on the level of Raging Bull. It's a great Cinderfella with boxing gloves kind of movie that's inspiring and that pulls the audience's strings very skillfully, but it doesn't scratch the surface much in terms of boxing as a way to achieve the damn "Dream". I remember when Raging Bull came out Rocky II came out around the same time...which came to prove the greatness of Raging Bull...And about Dreams...well Raging Bull comes to prove that even we ,me and you can self distruct...and you can be brilliant or strong or whatever greatnesss you own...you can spoil everything ...with one blow...pooof... Here I am, you lucky people!
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PusherMan said: scififilmnerd said: Well, that's a matter of taste - what kind of movies ya like - isn't it. For me, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back was the first best film for the 80's.
All i can say to you is you are you say you are a Sci Fi Film Nerd...I would definately put the Nerd in emphasis... I can see how preferable that is for you to do, HolyMoses - write me off as a nerd, as the other option - that you don't know a good movie even if it bitchslapped you in the face - might be hard to swallow for a man of pride.
I've seen Raging Bull and in my opinion it was a bore.  [This message was edited Sun Feb 15 3:58:54 PST 2004 by scififilmnerd] FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION!
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I Love This Film, Definately One Of My Fav's. I Actually Just Purchased It On DVD A Few Days Ago Along With ~Midnight Cowboy~.
A Great Classic, Great Acting Abilities, Joe Pesci & Robert DeNiro Deliver Flawless Performances As Per Usual.  | |
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PanthaGirl said: [color=violet:2495943ae3]I Love This Film, Definately One Of My Fav's. I Actually Just Purchased It On DVD A Few Days Ago Along With ~Midnight Cowboy~.
A Great Classic, Great Acting Abilities, Joe Pesci & Robert DeNiro Deliver Flawless Performances As Per Usual.[/color] WOW.....Another Raging Bull fan..... see my list of favorite films.... www.ymdb.com/user_top20_v...ersid=3170 Here I am, you lucky people!
I know a thing or two about a thing or two!! www.ymdb.com/user_top20_v...rsid=16838 | |
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